I really like your videos! If it's okay, I'd like to share a few thoughts on the Subnautica development with you. Perhaps a few explanations about the EA delay and a few other problems that are worth mentioning: After Subnautica: Below Zero the developers stopped working on the subnautica franchise and created another game(s). Development of "The Next Subnautica" did not begin until 2022 [0]. So it has only been 2 years since the development of the new subnautica game started. Also they switched from Unity Engine to Unreal Engine and this was a huge step, I think. Next, in the mid of 2022 Unreal Engine 5 was released and is a big game changer to video game development. But that also means that Unknown Worlds probably started development with Unreal Engine 4 and later - I assume - had to port to Unreal Engine 5 at great expense. As we know from satisfactory, [1][2][3] whose developers also went through the same process, the upgrade from Unreal Engine 4 to Unreal Engine 5 is extremely time-consuming. These are just guesses, but I think they also lost a lot of time with upgrading to Unreal Engine 5. And a lot means maybe a half year or so. --> I think they'll need more time until Early Access than on the first Subnautica or Subnautica: Below Zero. They have to develop the gameplay systems from scratch, I think. Also, there is another BIG PROBLEM that I think you forgot to mention: The former lead programmer of Subnautica and Subnautica: Below Zero left Unknown Worlds in 2020 [4]. That really scares me. A game is usually no longer the same if the same people who created the predecessor are no longer working on it. Also Jonas Bötel had a HUGE impact on Subnautica 1 and Subnautica: Below Zero, as we know from the Game Developers Conference from San Francisco. There is a recording from his talk [5][6]. Jonas Bötel introduced a lot in Subnautica and he was apparently one of the developers who worked on subnautica from the very beginning. He also introduced a lot of these intelligent "early access learning things" (like the Telemetry system, with which the game was improved a lot, the feedback system, the player heat maps and so on) from which they learned a lot about there players and community. The Game Director of Subnautica and Subnautica: Below Zero also talked about these systems and the process at the GDG. --> This fact scares me a lot. Another problem: Due to the fact, that they switched to Unreal Engine (don't get me wrong, i'm a big unreal engine fan), they have to build most things from scratch and this also means, that - I guess - we will maybe lose some features from the predecessor games which are a matter of course for us. For example some base building parts or others. The fact that Unknown Worlds has remained silent about "The Next Subnautica" for so long is not a good sign for me. I completely agree with you. Sources: [0] ua-cam.com/video/kDuy-J9LtaE/v-deo.html [1] ua-cam.com/video/dY__x2dq7Sk/v-deo.html [2] ua-cam.com/video/d-MGfaCJfrw/v-deo.html [3] ua-cam.com/video/MfDPCzHzAJw/v-deo.html [4] www.linkedin.com/in/jonasboetel/ [5] ua-cam.com/video/fkjY_R7zQsM/v-deo.html [6] docs.google.com/presentation/d/1voavbYG7Wn8Ry3ygH2AnDdUdMXfP8zR_K1SwbQ4Jkz4/edit?pli=1#slide=id.g4f29979831_6_0 [7] ua-cam.com/video/7R-x9NSBS2Y/v-deo.html [8] docs.google.com/document/d/17EeyckzfkRZkvgUe-uXW_inKd6hYtsZ9uo5DkfsRjcI/edit
Damm i do a gree also thanks for sourcing links, first person ive seen do it but yeah, tho even with one person leaving, known from either PGG or T10 people left and the updates just went better, but lets see
1. At 9:10 it is not concept art, it's a screenshot. All the other photos that they showed are also screenshots. 2. One of the developers said in an interview that the map will be HUGE, and also that during early access it will constantly expand (so problems with the map like in Below Zero are unlikely to appear in the second part) 3. Subnautica 1 also did not immediately enter early access. Before that, it was developed for at least a year until the skeleton of the game was ready. The situation with the second part is most likely similar. There will be no early access until the base of the game is ready. And it’s not surprising that it takes longer than last time, because this time the game is being developed on Unreal Engine 5, and the scale has also grown significantly + the developers were busy with another game (moonbreaker) for some time 4. I highly recommend watching the interview with the developer Obraxis on the Anthomnia channel. There was a lot of interesting information
I think we should put hope in Unknown Worlds. They seem to be moving in the right direction, and I personally appreciate the secrecy about Subnautica 2, because not knowing what I’m getting into is much more fun for me.
Bro you're overthinking, subnautica below zero was never intended to be as large scale as the first subnautica because in early development it was first envisioned as a DLC, much of the early design work of the levels started with this in mind, It's not that they stop listening to feedback. Tbh DLC that transition into full games often suffer from these problems, often feeling shallower and shorter than full price games because early design work is done with a much smaller scope in mind
@@kwad9145 I completely agree, but this is a common practice in the game industry and there are countless DLCs that have been morphed into full games normally publishers fault
His concern is 100% valid. Whether DLC or full game, BZ was many small steps in the wrong direction. Let's hope they learn. We want Subnautica 2, not Subnautica Below Zero 2.
man, some of Below Zeros biomes are just plain beautiful. I know that's the entire point of this video (below zero feels more like a nice looking display, other than a world with alive creatures) but I do hope they carry some of that artistic talent over to subnautica 2. I just hope they know when to stop making base locations and make actual biomes.
I love that you can ride around on the Glow Whales. Favorite place to build my base is with them around the lily pads. Below Zero is is a completely different vibe to the first Subnautica. I love the horror and dread in Subnautica. But the beauty and vibes of Below Zero is more zen to me
I recently bought Below Zero and this has me quite excited to play it. Even if the experience doesn't live up to the original, I can see myself finding a different kind of appeal in it that works in its own way. I get how the less dangerous appearance of the final area could be a letdown, but I see it potentially as a reward for making it down there in the first place. I do hope Subnautica 2 does its own thing and doesn't just try to recapture the feel of the first game as I truthfully don't think anything will.
Below Zero went into early access so soon after Subnautica’s full release because it was a DLC that got so big they decided to make it a spinoff. I’m very excited for Subnautica 2’s early access release, from what it sounds like it’s going to be bigger, deeper, and more terrifying.
I just hope it won't have as many spider like creatures, like Below Zero did. I bought the first game but I can't touch below zero because of my stupid phobia 😭😭😭
Ironically, I think having early access is part of why so many people felt disappointed by the full release of Below Zero. Despite being very incomplete, the story felt far more compelling than the story they ended up with.
It wasnt even incomplete, it was unfinished. Like a cake that needs a few more minutes in the oven The current story is incomplete, the cake finished baking but you forgot to add eggs so the cake tastes like crap. I do wonder about the reason behind the story change, sudden onset brain eating worms?
@@VladLad If I'm correct the writer of Subnautica left during the process of making Below Zero, so they had to get a new writer and at that point a lot of the game had been made. So the new writer had to write for what was already there instead of unknown worlds making what was written before.
Not for me. The end of Below Zero is my absolute favorite tbh. And I got easily access the first day it came out and played the different stories (since the original one was scrapped). What we ended up with makes much more sense imo tbh
@@NamiZu00It just didn't make sense for progression. I mean you started in a HUGE base with a bunch of items. It was very annoying knowing that all you needed was there but you had to now do all the crafting for the basic tools. It made no sense tbh. I was scared when they changed it but when I played the new version I liked it better.
@@Cris-cl3dr I think that says alot more about you... So you mean to tell me you liked our budding hero's plan to sneak on a planet, with absolutely zero consideration to how she would get off the planet unless it was always the plan to rescue an alien and hitch a ride, in order to investigate her sister's mysterious death, which Alterra claims was incompetence, but ACTUALLY as it turns out, it was incompetence, and your sister's literal dying wish is actually not even a main objective, the main objective is running off with a dashing alien. This is the very definition of a terribly written contrived story. Instead of the original story, where our protagonist was already on the planet in an official capacity working for alterra, with the sister alive and providing tech support. the alien stuff was much cooler because you were skulking about under alterra eyes with this secret alien, the main plot was about how terrorists were holding the space station hostage by infecting everybody with the bacterium until their demands are met. you are telling me you like it better when your sister commits glorious incompetent suicide with a bomb because she reckons alterra are bad people without any proof of wrongdoing.
@@thetallpancake this is true but getting a pop filter or better mic or whatever you need to have cleaner audio and less puffs of air/popping when breathing and speaking would also help your odds cause some may find those disturbances too annoying to stick around or just straight dismiss you for lack of "professionalism." Overall a very good video though! I honestly clicked on this out of curiosity expecting it to be bad and click off after a minute or two but I was pleasantly surprised to be wrong.
They have been working on another game. I really dont think them going into early access in 2025 is going to be a problem. Since they have been heavily working on another game they havent been working on Subnautica 2 the entire time
@@lolman6759 I never played it, probably will, but I agree, even though it’s not like the other games and probably not as good in my opinion, it should still get atleast some recognition considering how much love the other games got from the community.
I think they are focusing on the lore and narrative because if you’ve played and completed the first game you simply will never get the same feeling of fear or loneliness the first playthrough gives. If they just made it to mimic the first game on a new map it would’ve flopped completely because “it’s just the first game but bad.” I would be happy in letting them take their franchise in the direction of story, because it’s just not possible to hit the terror the first game did for veteran players.
I personally like the crystal zone more than the lava lakes because the lava lakes just feel empty and I was more afraid of the sea dragon just clippin through the floor then the entire Leviathan 😅
@@thetallpancakeit feels generic like a Mario level, the cristal caves feel "alien". But I do find the execution of the caves lackluster like something is missing. I prefer the design of the cristal caves but the lava zone has better execution.
I gotta admit, I'm a bit worried about the multiplayer aspect. Yes, I know the base game is still gonna be single player but there's always a risk that the devs put so much focus, effort and resources into co-op that single player mode ends up suffering because of that. I trust that UW will find a way to balance it out but it's still a worry.
One thing to keep in mind, is that unknown is working with an entirely new engine and i'm assuming they're using this time to figure out the bearings and rebuild everything that they had from the ground up. It's likely that the game is barely playable in its current state, and those fancy screenshots we saw are probably all they have of the game, the mechanics and creature behavior are probably very very far from finished.
Hopefully they do it like a tv show or something lol I don’t want another below zeroesque game with an alien and a mc yapping the whole time. A tv adaptation of below zero makes more sense tbh
But also they might visit that later in the series but I really hope not the next game. Or maybe just references just plz not the same characters and stories
People overthink too much about this. We know pretty much nothing and these type of videos feel lile click bait atp tbh. Also, its very annoying watching people mention Subnautica Below Zero in the comments as a bad omen. Below Zero was meant to be a DLC, not a full stand alone game. And a lot of the things that made Subnautica so good were unintentional to begging with, so of course they're going to approach this development in a way different way. Let's just chill and wait until we have *something*. Anything.
Also, sub below zero is lacks the depth in the water, take sub1 for example. when u go to the sand sharks place (which i forgot the name of the biome) its like 150 meters deep under the water. i went to the dead zone of the sub below zero it was like 300 meters deep. and i played both games, finished sub1 but i really got bored from sub below zero
I do hope they keep a similar art style from 1 and BZ, because that’s sort of the appeal for me, it can still be terrifying, but it also has a certain charm with the almost cartoonish graphics in some spots
if they just de-canonized below zero i'd be so damn happy. i like fred and a couple other audio logs, but margareit somehow surviving a cross-planet trip only to do basically nothing is too unbelievable imo. not the mention the dogshit story and *constant* annoyance from robin re-stating that which you have already done.
Mercury II survivor: "I just want to see my family again... I just hope the kids are doi-" Robin: "Oh! I just scanned the last processor fragment! Haha Al-An is such a goofy goober."
I hope we get to spend most of it Subnautical. I really wasn't a fan of the icy above-ground areas, and when not investigating a research site I just wanted to get out of there as quickly as possible. In the OG Subnautica I enjoy hanging out in most biomes, and it helped that the above water areas were relatively small but interesting.
they just need to bring back everyone working on the first subnautica. bring back simon chylinski and the original directors. below zero flopped because they went woke and hired a bunch of minorities for inclusivity or whatever
Even though I myself love the OST of the first game. I 99% believe Simon Chylinski is not coming back for the second game as he got into some stupid (imo) controversy after Subnautica released and he got fired from the team... Below zero went with a different music style, but I really hope, if they hire some good producers, they can certainly ''replicate'' the feeling the first OST quite well or make it even better!... so let's pray that will happen...
Subnautica was always the game I wanted as a king in the 90's and when it came out on consoles playing it finally was a dream come true. Praying for the sequel.
Im personally very hopeful for the future because they have shown to really want to improve from Below Zero. They said in an interview they have separate teams for base building and creature interaction which is very cool. I think it should also be taken into account the time when Below Zero was developed. When people criticize that game, they dont mention at all the terrible circumstances the game was developed under. In fact, its a miracle it turned out as well as it did. Not only was the game being developed throughout the entirety of the pandemic, (the story rewrite of the game happened between about a month before COVID hit, and finished when the game released in 2021.) but they also had to deal with some members of the team leaving (like the main story writer) which caused the team to go into disarray and made the circumstances even worse. I believe they handled it as well as they could have, but unfortunately the final version suffered from those circumstances and it ended up becoming a below average entry in the Subnautica franchise. Anyways thanks for reading, I was a part of the early access since the day it released in 2019 and have hundreds of hours in the game, so I have lots of strong feelings for this game, and I believe its not as bad as people make it out to be.
I personally would rather play a horror game with no knowledge of anything in the game. Letting me experience the horror aspect at its true capacity. I also think that they aren't doing early access is because they have enough money so they dont need to have pre sales. This is only my opinion though.
haven't watched the video entirely but you've got to remember they already have experience making Subnautica, not to mention they have now started working with an entirely different engine.
The ocean is scary because of the openess. There is nowhere to run, to hide, to outsmart or evade a predator. Maybe in the shallows, reefs etc but that is a very small part of the ocean. Thalassophobia comes from the inescapable vastness of the body of water. Below zero was an afterthought, not a follow up. A voiced protagonist, silly story, duller exploration, an obviously less exciting experience.
Gotta say, I think the biome design is the strongest point of Below Zero. While the bioluminescence could and should be dialed back in terms of sheer brightness, the rest of the biome design is ultimately pretty strong. Namely, the Lily Pad and Vent Garden Biomes. I particularly liked how you can see an organism's lifecycle throughout their biome. It's remniscient of how Reapers would always flock to areas with low visibility in the original game. I think that if we could see more of that kind of design in the proper sequel to Subnautica, it'll be all the better for it. Especially if they expand upon it, and we can see some inter-biome interactions or migrations between them.
whenever release order is mentioned I always have to say as someone who played below zero first that should be the recommended way to play it for new players of all subnautica games because it is more hand holdy than subnautica so/and you don't know what you are missing out on with subnautica in below zero but the one exception the jukebox (my favourite item) and it makes sense with the tonal shift of sub and below zero and from the stuff I have seen I feel like I enjoyed bz more than the release order people because they knew what they were missing out on.
A few comments I’ve got: 1. While the cramped spaces of BZ *are* terrible for base building, I think they give a great claustrophobic aspect to the game. I also just love exploring all the little nooks and crannies, but that’s just me. That being said, Subnautica is a thalassophic game series, not a claustrophobic one. Subnautica 2 ideally should have both, but more open biomes like the first game. 2. BZ being pretty *does* take away from the scare factor a little bit, but I think it’s worth it, because oh my god that game is beautiful. We need a mix of both sparse biomes and dense biomes. Dangerous biomes benefit from the sparseness, and peaceful ones benefit from density. 3. The early access not being present is a little scary, but I think it may be because they’re just trying to work out UE5?? But then again they had in-game screen shots that looked super polished, so that points to the contrary. Perhaps they just want more to show us at early-access launch? It is kind of unnerving. 4. Have faith in these devs. They love the games as much as we do, and they’ve surely seen all our criticisms and praises. Cautious faith though, anything can happen. 5. Great video, really enjoyed it!
I started playing below zero firstly (because i was new) 2 months ago. The second i heard about the first game, i bought it and from that moment on never touched below zero to this day (well, more because i havent finished the first game yet)
totally agree with the thoughts on tonal shift: the biomes and locations in subnautica felt expansive, beautiful, full of/devoid of life, and dangerous. below zero is for sure still beautiful, but it almost completely loses that lonesome dread that subnautica has. desperately hoping that the next game goes in a less-linear, darker direction, closer to subnautica!
I know we all wanna see what they've got for subnautica 2, but it's better to be patient and wait for when the devs are ready than for the community to sit and demand something sooner while it's not ready. A similar thing happened to Cyberpunk 2077 and we all know how that went. Just be patient everyone.
I have yet to be actually able to play below zero. But back when i had yet to play even subnautica and could only watch letsplays i enjoyed them bothe equally and its still the same they play differently but are still both objectively and subjectively good games
I liked that you didn't just start shitting below zero just because of the lack of a cyclops, for example, but in my opinion you assessed subnautica and sbz fairly objectively. Actually, I'm a little sad that everyone likes sbz less, but after this video, I really understand that it's better to let the developers look towards subnautica when developing a new part. Cool video, I wish the developers would watch it
I think its good they dont release Subnautica 2 in an early access state. Feedback is good but not from everyone. i trust in their ability to make another great Game.
Tbh i would be happy subnautica 2 was the same as subnautica 1 but with a bigger map and more fish I just really like exploring that world, building bases and running from Leviathans
@soifonbleh BZ isn't bad, it just had a troubled development with the wrong priorities. It's still a good game, but it just doesn't stack up to the original.
I absolutely disagree with the story and characters from BZ. They were all pretty bad and there was way too much conversation. Character logs and isolation are the way to go. Being the only human on a dangerous alien world is compelling - having some obtusely overpowered NPC there with you like Marguerite is jarring, or having Alan to talk your ear off and guide you in a linear fashion like a Ubisoft game completely breaks that immersion. The story should be in the background of a game like this.
I disagree with you on several points. Just because early access will not be releasing this year does not mean that it never will, and in fact, in the very next line they say “think our early access update model”, which to me says that they fully intend to actually do early access. Also, I am not concerned that multiplayer will take primary focus as they say in the line after the one I previously mentioned that “the game is not multiplayer-focused” and that it will be “entirely optional”. I totally agree with you that Below Zero was bad because they didn’t take early access feedback, but I hope the response to its mixed reviews is them trying to restore that former Subnautica glory they got from the first game. My greatest fear for Subnautica 2 is that the firing of Simon Chylinski many years ago is going to make it noticeably worse than the original. The man said some weird stuff on Twitter, I know, but he was the backbone of the original game. He made every sound effect and every song, and while I love Ben Prunty, (because, like your favorite game is Celeste, my SECOND favorite game is Celeste, only beaten by Subnautica lol,) I don’t think he captured the same feel at all. Also the sound effects in Below Zero are awful. I get that I’m playing an underwater game, but I don’t understand why every nice, crisp, juicy sound effect from the original needs to be changed to sound like my ears are full of water in Below Zero. Also Below Zero never allows for quiet, and there’s no space to think compared to the silent terror of the original, though I bet you also watched those same video essays about terror vs horror that I did (as evidenced by your mentioning of them in the video) so I don’t need to tell you that lol
A much smaller disagreement I have with you is that the human like face of the reaper is scary. To me, it makes it look goofy lol and that the ghost leviathan’s otherworldly appearance is much scarier. That’s totally a matter of personal preference, however, and does not matter at all, which is why I just made it a reply to my own comment instead of part of the comment itself lol
@@thetallpancake I will say that I can’t completely disagree with your early access comments, however, because they were very vague and the way they said “think our early access UPDATE model” could be interpreted as like minor updates instead of actually making the game in the public eye like they did the first one. I mean they are being EXTREMELY silent about the game in general which means they COULD just turn around and be like “yeah actually the game is just finished now, here’s early access so you can report your bugs to us but we don’t care about your design feedback” so I can’t completely discard your points as you could be totally right and we have no way of knowing until we get the early access Oh yeah, also I wish Robyn would shut the f@&% up. I much prefer a silent protagonist and no dialogue at all except remnants of recorded conversations, and she’s actually so annoying I hate her and in fact the only character I don’t hate is Alan because he is ny bbg (gay)
I honestly don’t have any criticisms for the games aside from that the Cyclops couldn’t be maneuvered well around the safe shallows, and I had a felt sense that almost every location put it in jeopardy, and seeing that it was supposed to be like a remote base, made it seem like it couldn’t be used a lot. Like it was too valuable to lose, and that it was easy to lose. I think the developers should consider scenarios by which the players will make good use of a large submarine like the cyclops, and then build the resource and crafting mechanics to serve that experience.
This was really well put together and makes some very good points. I enjoyed below zero as much as the first game but in different ways. I feel like its possible to combine the conceps of both, although it may prove challenging. If the map is much bigger you can have plenty of open space and claustrophobic areas on a smaller scale its like the grand reef and dunes with the trench in the middle.
I'm cautiously optimistic for subnautica 2, personally I think Subnautica BZ was pretty good, (I know unpopular opinion) ofc it has its flaws and I still prefer the first, but im sure they have heard a lot of the criticism, And with multiplayer bound to be fun, and it running on UE5 it will be stunning.
The worst thing about below zero in my opinion is the map size, it feels too crowded and I feel like there's no room to breathe. Every cool base location is either dangerous or there's an alterra base there already. Every other location is generic and boring. The original didn't have this problem.
@buildcraftgaming1548 it's not the wait time that's the issue, it's the missing feedback. The longer it takes to fix an issue, the less likely it gets fixed.
@@thetallpancake I must respectfully disagree. Consider this: the franchise is well-established and just moving the timeline back is not the same as less feedback - I'd posit that they will get MORE feedback in a shorter time given the number of people who WILL join an abbreviated Early Access. In other words, perhaps Early Access is less needed this time around, given the substantial feedback, mods and user community that already exists? Wouldn't it be better to focus on assets and plot since core gameplay mechanics (minus some inevitable changes) are already sorted? I work in Software Product Management and iterative releases are always better, given lessons learned form the past. I see a shorter EA period for Sub2 as an indication that the studio is doing things correctly; even if there are issues at launch, they've built trust and have demonstrated passion for continued work on the series, no? If this were a different game, I'd be cautious, but as this is a sequel / plot-related next chapter, I don't think there is reason to really lament a shorter EA period, regardless of when it comes. Of course, the gameplay remains to be seen- I think the transition to the new engine is the absolute highest priority to address, so please don't worry! :)
@@thetallpancake you’re right, but I feel like it’s not abnormal to keep a game sort of hidden from the world for a long time. The original game spoiled us with it’s years of early access lol
I liked the first video game, I'm gonna play subzero because I just care of more subnautica and i don't matter if it's worse, i like the alien fish and cool biomes. I don't really care how subnautica 2 is gonna be, if it is not a cyberpunk 2 im gonna play it and enjoy it. And that makes me happy
I'm actually really happy you asked! That's a little-known part of the crash zone known as the Crash Zone Mesa. I sometimes build there to flex because it is constantly swarmed with 3+ Reapers. There are a couple plateaus of Mesa, and they are all behind the Aurora.
@@thetallpancake No wonder I've never seen that spot. I thought I knew this game inside and out but most people don't explore every square inch of the Crash Zone.
Well unkown worlds is also busy with a different game knowing they have been bought out aswel... And the fact they say not intended for 2024 says to me that 2 wil come earliest 2025 if not later meanings yes there still wil be early acces just not this year...
3/4 of the subnautica devs are working on a turn-based strategy game with nothing to do with subnautica and its their main focus, the other quarter is working in the background coming up with ideas for another subnautica. But its only idea making at this point, there have been a few that i liked personally for a subnautica 3 but its all just community ideas at this point. Subnautica: Genesis (takes place after below zero and you team with Alan to cure a mutated version of the kahraa) and Subnautica: Crush depth (takes place in a deep part of the subnautica world where you are trying to get to the surface and escape rather than going deeper)
the game probably isn’t receiving an early access this early because it’s live service? they’re gonna keep updating the game for a long time so “early access” wouldn’t really matter since it’s gonna be perpetually in development
I disagree with almost all points. I really enjoyed below zero because it was so detailed and shiny. I also love that they try new things. I think that now that they have feedback from the two different games, they are gonna knock it out of the park with the third one.
Im excited for Subnautica 2. But to be honest I really wanted to see what would happen with Robin and Al-an. But if they did continue that story, would it even be Subnautica anymore? Because we wouldnt be on 4546b. We'd be exploring the architect world and seeing if we can find more of them. Which I would still love regardless. Maybe theyd go back to 4546b looking for other stuff, who knows. But yeah definitely excited for Subnautica 2 but also really wanted more Robin and Al-an
Look, I don’t mind the interesting new design with below zeroes leviathans, with their arthropod like design, I just feel they weren’t properly implemented to be scary. The biomes seemed too friendly for the most part, and the AI seems a little… drab. The reapers roamed the land, traveling vast distances, while the chelicerates kinda circle a small part of the map.
with below zero, you had to start over again with every update just to get a new piece of the story, it was so boring after the 40est time knowing every place on the not so big map, the early access totally ruined it for me
Personally I liked the art direction of Below Zero's biomes. Just wish they weren't so cramped and had better transitions instead of water just jarringly changing color. Plot in Below Zero was so terrible though.
Below Zero came so soon after the release of subnautica because it was planned as a dlc and the team worked on it while working on subnautica. Even now where it’s a game that stands by itself, it uses the same engine. Now, I believe the only reason subnautica 2 could possibly take a few years instead of a few days compared to 1 and below zero, is because they use a whole new engine to give us a massive new game. Any other explanation would also be pretty disappointing. As for ideas for the next game, I think they should do more stuff like the sunbeam being destroyed. Yk, hope building up you are gonna be safer or not alone and it all gets destroyed by the cruel world around you. Maybe we could actually see a leviathan rip apart a lifepod or even person. I would like to see the world become full of life instead of only hearing data logs about how dangerous everything is supposed to be. Interaction with the different creatures and people there and seeing some gruesome shit would be part of that.
Well they did say they had to switch to Unreal engine 5, which meant they basically had to remake most of, if not all their assets. Including the ocean effect. Which took a long time to figure out, which they now had to remake with a new version
Honestly I prefer developers to throw surprises at me. I don’t mind suspense, I got many games I still haven’t had time to try because I work so much. I more inclined to ask developers of any game to spring the release only a few months before release for optimal warning and suspense. If you like the game a second one; regardless when it’s released, will pull in the player base. If made well, it will pull new players looking for something new to try out and be in the know of present gaming culture activities.😂
so far, im only 2:41 in, but ive gotta say ive personally seen below zeros flaws as a result of 1) they tried something new (more narrative focus) 2) they listened *too much in the wrong way* to feedback of people saying it didnt feel as isolated or scary as the first game 3) instead of staying committed to the narrative that they had, which they had made the world with it in mind... they hard pivoted to a more "generic subnautica-ified" game, with trying to capture the feeling of isolation and loneliness by... just retconning every character that was alive in early access to be ... dead? 4) womp womp dissonance between world and story so like, i think a big thing we'll have to see is HOW they listen to feedback. it is often said that players are good at identifying problems, but not coming up with solutions. that falls on the devs ideally... their solutions in subnautica 2 will not end up massively shifting the direction of the entire game i really do think below zero would've felt more cohesive if they had stuck to what they had planned. even if it wouldnt have felt as much like subnautica... i think thats fine! it would've stood out as something unique, and for a "subnautica 1 and a half" game i think that would've worked really well either way, im sure subnautica 2 will be a return to form... though, there IS also the fact that the main writer(s) left the team in the middle of below zeros development? and the story was entirely rewritten several times in early access? im not super informed on that part, though what i do know though is that i can FEEL the amount that they tried to pivot away from what they had, to try and desperately find the "subnautica factor" and kinda ended up with the worst of both worlds; below zero didnt get to fully shine its character driven story as it was held back by the loneliness/isolation, and the attempted isolation/loneliness didnt work because of the remaining character driven story elements
overall below zeros world feels like it was MADE for the original story, not the story that we now have in below zero. and because of that, its just kinda awkward. you cant change one without changing the other if they're so intertwined (which in subnauticas case, they are!)
interesting points on the biomes trying to be more pretty in below zero... but feeling less believable, less able to be immersed in... honestly? yeah. it is quite weird that theres even such a tropical aquarium under the ARCTIC of the planet and also, definitely, the creature designs are... definitely trying a bit hard to be intentionally "alien yet believable"
I get the unease, but we haven’t seen anything of the game yet man. All we have is some in game picture of a few things they got, and honestly? It looks really good alredy. They’re going to go into early access, that’s been in their playbook for a while. But even if they don’t, the devs know what made the original great, they still have that feedback. And I know a lot of people see the first game as a “accidental masterpiece” because of below zero not living up too it, but BZ isn’t seen as a sequal by the devs. They see it as more of a spin-off, an experiment. And to me, that gives me way more confidence, as they already have a good idea of what changes they could do to the originals formula, and what they shouldn’t change due to BZ’s reception. The devs are smart, they know what made their game great, you don’t make something as immersive as the original by accident. And they even said that the next game is going to be much more like the original rather than BZ. Put some trust in em. This is going to be a hella big game, so it’s going to take them a while. They want to have something decent to show off for early access before they launch it, and I respect that. From the way they talk, they love the community, and really respect our takes. Give em some time and trust. From the few images we’ve seen so far the game already looks like it’s going to be stunning, and the newest one in that cave looking area captures a bit of that beutuful yet unsettling vibe many areas of the areas in the original had. But they’re still going to take feedback. All this to say, let em cook bro. I think this game will turn out to be something great, will it differ from the original? Probably at least a bit, but I want that, I don’t want the same damn game again, because we already have Subnautica. At the end of the day, the original ain’t goin anywhere, so give the devs time and let’s see what they cook up
@@thetallpancake true, but I think it’ll still be pretty early in development when they actually do release the early access. With how much bigger and denser this game will be, both graphically and physically, it’s gonna take a hella long time to make. They got time, and they’re willing to listen to the community, they’ve shown that. So I think we’re gonna have a good game on our hands. Only time will tell though
I don’t think I’d entirely agree with the idea that Below Zero’s tone is dampened by a “lack of realism” for the sake of being pretty. There are many points in the original game where you come across biomes that don’t look particularly grounded in reality like the Jelly Shroom caves or the Lost River, but they work because they inspire that awe of wonder. While below zero seems to just be surface deep with many of its designs, and like you stated feel particularly cramped with nothing to find and nowhere to go. The environments should be made with thought in them and consider what lives there, why does it exist, and how should it affect the player. Observing Penglings and Snow Stalkers with the robot may be realistic, but it doesn’t offer any meaningful experience for the player.
personally, i hope the subnauitca fandom stays strong like the geometry dash fandom. i hope subnautica 2 releses very soon (maybe 2025 when the other games released?) so, as long as we keep patient. we should be good. and with that, we have a fun update, also the subnatutica mod community is not dead. as long as mod creators have more content, the fandom will be alive. lets hope the best for OUR funny fish game. :D
Early Access sounds good but too early and some fans will assume the game is going to be bad, they aren't all smart. Then you have the opposite problem where Below Zero had a better story and more exciting Iceworm AI in Early Access than in the full build. Honestly I would have preferred if they'd made Steam Workshop a priority before a new game, mods have been keeping the community afloat (pun intended) and encouraging as many people as possible to use them just makes sense. Maybe in the next one, we'll see in time. Thanks for the dancing Eevee with timestamp btw.
not much of a future for a finished game i mean subnautica and subnautica below zero are finished games to my knowledge tho im not so sure about below zero yet
I was really let down by Below Zero. To be fair, it had massive shoes to fill as I consider the original to be one of - if not THE - best gaming experiences of the past 20 years. It made me want to abandon my career and become a marine biologist! I hope they lean in deep to the strengths of Subnautica but make it larger, nonlinear, more dangerous, silent protagonist, and keep the story in the background. And please let us select the voice of the PDA - the one in BZ was ultra annoying.
Yup. We switched to Unreal Engine 5, which means we’re building everything from scratch. The brand new world, and all tools we need to build the game. Plus, learning the new engine. It’s taking a while indeed, but we’ll start talking about SN2 soon.
@@Obraxis I was sort of uninformed for this one, as many of the comments here pointed out. I'm putting together another vid as we speak that takes a look at open-world progression as a topic, and the game you helped make is in pride of place!
iirc they are making subnautica 2 on unreal engine (not the same engine used for original subnautica) so it will obviously take longer to make even early access
I really like your videos! If it's okay, I'd like to share a few thoughts on the Subnautica development with you.
Perhaps a few explanations about the EA delay and a few other problems that are worth mentioning:
After Subnautica: Below Zero the developers stopped working on the subnautica franchise and created another game(s).
Development of "The Next Subnautica" did not begin until 2022 [0].
So it has only been 2 years since the development of the new subnautica game started.
Also they switched from Unity Engine to Unreal Engine and this was a huge step, I think.
Next, in the mid of 2022 Unreal Engine 5 was released and is a big game changer to video game development.
But that also means that Unknown Worlds probably started development with Unreal Engine 4 and later - I assume - had to port to Unreal Engine 5 at great expense.
As we know from satisfactory, [1][2][3] whose developers also went through the same process, the upgrade from Unreal Engine 4 to Unreal Engine 5 is extremely time-consuming.
These are just guesses, but I think they also lost a lot of time with upgrading to Unreal Engine 5.
And a lot means maybe a half year or so.
--> I think they'll need more time until Early Access than on the first Subnautica or Subnautica: Below Zero.
They have to develop the gameplay systems from scratch, I think.
Also, there is another BIG PROBLEM that I think you forgot to mention: The former lead programmer of Subnautica and Subnautica: Below Zero left Unknown Worlds in 2020 [4].
That really scares me. A game is usually no longer the same if the same people who created the predecessor are no longer working on it.
Also Jonas Bötel had a HUGE impact on Subnautica 1 and Subnautica: Below Zero, as we know from the Game Developers Conference from San Francisco.
There is a recording from his talk [5][6].
Jonas Bötel introduced a lot in Subnautica and he was apparently one of the developers who worked on subnautica from the very beginning.
He also introduced a lot of these intelligent "early access learning things" (like the Telemetry system, with which the game was improved a lot, the feedback system, the player heat maps and so on) from which they learned a lot about there players and community.
The Game Director of Subnautica and Subnautica: Below Zero also talked about these systems and the process at the GDG.
--> This fact scares me a lot.
Another problem:
Due to the fact, that they switched to Unreal Engine (don't get me wrong, i'm a big unreal engine fan), they have to build most things from scratch and this also means, that - I guess - we will maybe lose some features from the predecessor games which are a matter of course for us. For example some base building parts or others.
The fact that Unknown Worlds has remained silent about "The Next Subnautica" for so long is not a good sign for me.
I completely agree with you.
Sources:
[0] ua-cam.com/video/kDuy-J9LtaE/v-deo.html
[1] ua-cam.com/video/dY__x2dq7Sk/v-deo.html
[2] ua-cam.com/video/d-MGfaCJfrw/v-deo.html
[3] ua-cam.com/video/MfDPCzHzAJw/v-deo.html
[4] www.linkedin.com/in/jonasboetel/
[5] ua-cam.com/video/fkjY_R7zQsM/v-deo.html
[6] docs.google.com/presentation/d/1voavbYG7Wn8Ry3ygH2AnDdUdMXfP8zR_K1SwbQ4Jkz4/edit?pli=1#slide=id.g4f29979831_6_0
[7] ua-cam.com/video/7R-x9NSBS2Y/v-deo.html
[8] docs.google.com/document/d/17EeyckzfkRZkvgUe-uXW_inKd6hYtsZ9uo5DkfsRjcI/edit
I've had some essay-length comments here, but this one takes the cake. Cited sources are a rarity here, I appreciate the effort and the passion here.
@@thetallpancake Thank you very much! :)
Damm i do a gree also thanks for sourcing links, first person ive seen do it but yeah, tho even with one person leaving, known from either PGG or T10 people left and the updates just went better, but lets see
@@tiashadrows3469 Thanks! :)
Dang dude, you even brought RECEIPTS!
I can still hear the Reaper Leviathan’s roar whenever I’m near a large body of water
If you can hear it, it can see you😬
I pretty much have PTSD from this game 😅
This game is GOD DAM rated 3+ age bruh it shoud be 12 or 16
My brain constantly reminds me about the reaper leviathan no matter where I am.
@@HOOVY_tf218 minimum
1. At 9:10 it is not concept art, it's a screenshot. All the other photos that they showed are also screenshots.
2. One of the developers said in an interview that the map will be HUGE, and also that during early access it will constantly expand (so problems with the map like in Below Zero are unlikely to appear in the second part)
3. Subnautica 1 also did not immediately enter early access. Before that, it was developed for at least a year until the skeleton of the game was ready. The situation with the second part is most likely similar. There will be no early access until the base of the game is ready. And it’s not surprising that it takes longer than last time, because this time the game is being developed on Unreal Engine 5, and the scale has also grown significantly + the developers were busy with another game (moonbreaker) for some time
4. I highly recommend watching the interview with the developer Obraxis on the Anthomnia channel. There was a lot of interesting information
Yep, I knew I missed a lot. Thanks for the info, I'll definitely take this into account when approaching the situation in the future!
I think we should put hope in Unknown Worlds. They seem to be moving in the right direction, and I personally appreciate the secrecy about Subnautica 2, because not knowing what I’m getting into is much more fun for me.
Bro you're overthinking, subnautica below zero was never intended to be as large scale as the first subnautica because in early development it was first envisioned as a DLC, much of the early design work of the levels started with this in mind, It's not that they stop listening to feedback.
Tbh DLC that transition into full games often suffer from these problems, often feeling shallower and shorter than full price games because early design work is done with a much smaller scope in mind
they shouldn't have priced it like a full release
@@kwad9145
I completely agree, but this is a common practice in the game industry and there are countless DLCs that have been morphed into full games normally publishers fault
@@maxw2210 as always, money rules the world
agreed
His concern is 100% valid. Whether DLC or full game, BZ was many small steps in the wrong direction. Let's hope they learn. We want Subnautica 2, not Subnautica Below Zero 2.
man, some of Below Zeros biomes are just plain beautiful. I know that's the entire point of this video (below zero feels more like a nice looking display, other than a world with alive creatures) but I do hope they carry some of that artistic talent over to subnautica 2. I just hope they know when to stop making base locations and make actual biomes.
I love that you can ride around on the Glow Whales. Favorite place to build my base is with them around the lily pads. Below Zero is is a completely different vibe to the first Subnautica. I love the horror and dread in Subnautica. But the beauty and vibes of Below Zero is more zen to me
Subnautica 1 feels more alive than BZ?? I’m going to have to disagree with you there.
I recently bought Below Zero and this has me quite excited to play it. Even if the experience doesn't live up to the original, I can see myself finding a different kind of appeal in it that works in its own way. I get how the less dangerous appearance of the final area could be a letdown, but I see it potentially as a reward for making it down there in the first place. I do hope Subnautica 2 does its own thing and doesn't just try to recapture the feel of the first game as I truthfully don't think anything will.
Below Zero went into early access so soon after Subnautica’s full release because it was a DLC that got so big they decided to make it a spinoff. I’m very excited for Subnautica 2’s early access release, from what it sounds like it’s going to be bigger, deeper, and more terrifying.
I just hope it won't have as many spider like creatures, like Below Zero did. I bought the first game but I can't touch below zero because of my stupid phobia 😭😭😭
@@razvy6949 Which creatures in BZ are spider like, in your opinion? I genuinely cannot think of any.
Ironically, I think having early access is part of why so many people felt disappointed by the full release of Below Zero. Despite being very incomplete, the story felt far more compelling than the story they ended up with.
It wasnt even incomplete, it was unfinished. Like a cake that needs a few more minutes in the oven
The current story is incomplete, the cake finished baking but you forgot to add eggs so the cake tastes like crap.
I do wonder about the reason behind the story change, sudden onset brain eating worms?
@@VladLad If I'm correct the writer of Subnautica left during the process of making Below Zero, so they had to get a new writer and at that point a lot of the game had been made. So the new writer had to write for what was already there instead of unknown worlds making what was written before.
Not for me. The end of Below Zero is my absolute favorite tbh. And I got easily access the first day it came out and played the different stories (since the original one was scrapped). What we ended up with makes much more sense imo tbh
@@NamiZu00It just didn't make sense for progression. I mean you started in a HUGE base with a bunch of items. It was very annoying knowing that all you needed was there but you had to now do all the crafting for the basic tools. It made no sense tbh. I was scared when they changed it but when I played the new version I liked it better.
@@Cris-cl3dr I think that says alot more about you...
So you mean to tell me you liked our budding hero's plan to sneak on a planet, with absolutely zero consideration to how she would get off the planet unless it was always the plan to rescue an alien and hitch a ride, in order to investigate her sister's mysterious death, which Alterra claims was incompetence, but ACTUALLY as it turns out, it was incompetence, and your sister's literal dying wish is actually not even a main objective, the main objective is running off with a dashing alien. This is the very definition of a terribly written contrived story.
Instead of the original story, where our protagonist was already on the planet in an official capacity working for alterra, with the sister alive and providing tech support. the alien stuff was much cooler because you were skulking about under alterra eyes with this secret alien, the main plot was about how terrorists were holding the space station hostage by infecting everybody with the bacterium until their demands are met.
you are telling me you like it better when your sister commits glorious incompetent suicide with a bomb because she reckons alterra are bad people without any proof of wrongdoing.
I want a prequel that goes through the events of the Degassi
Thats not really possible unless they do another rewrite so maybe
that would be incredibly boring, we already know their story
@@cardboard9124yeah and we would just experience some of the same things creatures and biomes
Never realized this video was from a creator with only a mere 500 subscribers, really really underrated in my opinion
I try, growth is just luck though
@@thetallpancake this is true but getting a pop filter or better mic or whatever you need to have cleaner audio and less puffs of air/popping when breathing and speaking would also help your odds cause some may find those disturbances too annoying to stick around or just straight dismiss you for lack of "professionalism." Overall a very good video though! I honestly clicked on this out of curiosity expecting it to be bad and click off after a minute or two but I was pleasantly surprised to be wrong.
My problem is I have a room with absolutely horrid acoustics and I can't fix that.
They have been working on another game. I really dont think them going into early access in 2025 is going to be a problem. Since they have been heavily working on another game they havent been working on Subnautica 2 the entire time
What game? Moonbreaker?
@@shadowdstarguy8427the moon breaker situation is so sad
@@lolman6759 I never played it, probably will, but I agree, even though it’s not like the other games and probably not as good in my opinion, it should still get atleast some recognition considering how much love the other games got from the community.
i really enjoyed below zero, even if there are some flaws.
I think they are focusing on the lore and narrative because if you’ve played and completed the first game you simply will never get the same feeling of fear or loneliness the first playthrough gives. If they just made it to mimic the first game on a new map it would’ve flopped completely because “it’s just the first game but bad.” I would be happy in letting them take their franchise in the direction of story, because it’s just not possible to hit the terror the first game did for veteran players.
I personally like the crystal zone more than the lava lakes
because the lava lakes just feel empty and I was more afraid of the sea dragon just clippin through the floor then the entire Leviathan 😅
I just think the Lava Zone has more intimidation to it.
@@thetallpancakeit feels generic like a Mario level, the cristal caves feel "alien". But I do find the execution of the caves lackluster like something is missing.
I prefer the design of the cristal caves but the lava zone has better execution.
@@Mr.scooter-le8yothe crystal caves are too cramped, lava zones feel very grand and immersive
Funny thing. First playthrough I built a huge ass base in the twisty bridges in below zero.
@@benvrakas6665 Kudos to you lol
if you didn't know unknown worlds actually released on their website that the 3rd game will hopefully be in early access by 2024
@Ben_perfect Maybe not during 2024, in 2024 they updating saying it's not happening 2024
I gotta admit, I'm a bit worried about the multiplayer aspect. Yes, I know the base game is still gonna be single player but there's always a risk that the devs put so much focus, effort and resources into co-op that single player mode ends up suffering because of that. I trust that UW will find a way to balance it out but it's still a worry.
personally im really happy to hear that it has multiplayer cause it'll just make the game more fun imo
thats the main reason I cant wait for it I liked using nitrox and having me and some friends getting eaten
One thing to keep in mind, is that unknown is working with an entirely new engine and i'm assuming they're using this time to figure out the bearings and rebuild everything that they had from the ground up. It's likely that the game is barely playable in its current state, and those fancy screenshots we saw are probably all they have of the game, the mechanics and creature behavior are probably very very far from finished.
I hope we know or atleast see what happens to robin and Alan when they go back to the architect home world
Hopefully they do it like a tv show or something lol I don’t want another below zeroesque game with an alien and a mc yapping the whole time. A tv adaptation of below zero makes more sense tbh
But also they might visit that later in the series but I really hope not the next game. Or maybe just references just plz not the same characters and stories
on one hand is seems like it might be dead, but on the other hand the longer it takes the more work theoretically could be put into it.
People overthink too much about this. We know pretty much nothing and these type of videos feel lile click bait atp tbh.
Also, its very annoying watching people mention Subnautica Below Zero in the comments as a bad omen. Below Zero was meant to be a DLC, not a full stand alone game. And a lot of the things that made Subnautica so good were unintentional to begging with, so of course they're going to approach this development in a way different way. Let's just chill and wait until we have *something*. Anything.
Also, sub below zero is lacks the depth in the water, take sub1 for example. when u go to the sand sharks place (which i forgot the name of the biome) its like 150 meters deep under the water. i went to the dead zone of the sub below zero it was like 300 meters deep. and i played both games, finished sub1 but i really got bored from sub below zero
I do hope they keep a similar art style from 1 and BZ, because that’s sort of the appeal for me, it can still be terrifying, but it also has a certain charm with the almost cartoonish graphics in some spots
if they just de-canonized below zero i'd be so damn happy.
i like fred and a couple other audio logs, but margareit somehow surviving a cross-planet trip only to do basically nothing is too unbelievable imo.
not the mention the dogshit story and *constant* annoyance from robin re-stating that which you have already done.
Mercury II survivor: "I just want to see my family again... I just hope the kids are doi-"
Robin: "Oh! I just scanned the last processor fragment! Haha Al-An is such a goofy goober."
I hope we get to spend most of it Subnautical. I really wasn't a fan of the icy above-ground areas, and when not investigating a research site I just wanted to get out of there as quickly as possible. In the OG Subnautica I enjoy hanging out in most biomes, and it helped that the above water areas were relatively small but interesting.
they just need to bring back everyone working on the first subnautica. bring back simon chylinski and the original directors. below zero flopped because they went woke and hired a bunch of minorities for inclusivity or whatever
Even though I myself love the OST of the first game. I 99% believe Simon Chylinski is not coming back for the second game as he got into some stupid (imo) controversy after Subnautica released and he got fired from the team... Below zero went with a different music style, but I really hope, if they hire some good producers, they can certainly ''replicate'' the feeling the first OST quite well or make it even better!... so let's pray that will happen...
Subnautica was always the game I wanted as a king in the 90's and when it came out on consoles playing it finally was a dream come true. Praying for the sequel.
One of the few games to give me a similar feeling to Subnautica is Outer Wilds.
I personally want the subnautica 2 map to be way bigget so it could fit bigger submarines like Atlas
Im personally very hopeful for the future because they have shown to really want to improve from Below Zero. They said in an interview they have separate teams for base building and creature interaction which is very cool. I think it should also be taken into account the time when Below Zero was developed. When people criticize that game, they dont mention at all the terrible circumstances the game was developed under. In fact, its a miracle it turned out as well as it did. Not only was the game being developed throughout the entirety of the pandemic, (the story rewrite of the game happened between about a month before COVID hit, and finished when the game released in 2021.) but they also had to deal with some members of the team leaving (like the main story writer) which caused the team to go into disarray and made the circumstances even worse. I believe they handled it as well as they could have, but unfortunately the final version suffered from those circumstances and it ended up becoming a below average entry in the Subnautica franchise. Anyways thanks for reading, I was a part of the early access since the day it released in 2019 and have hundreds of hours in the game, so I have lots of strong feelings for this game, and I believe its not as bad as people make it out to be.
New game will be just fine. They learned a lot from their mistakes in second game.
I personally would rather play a horror game with no knowledge of anything in the game. Letting me experience the horror aspect at its true capacity. I also think that they aren't doing early access is because they have enough money so they dont need to have pre sales. This is only my opinion though.
haven't watched the video entirely but you've got to remember they already have experience making Subnautica, not to mention they have now started working with an entirely different engine.
The ocean is scary because of the openess. There is nowhere to run, to hide, to outsmart or evade a predator. Maybe in the shallows, reefs etc but that is a very small part of the ocean. Thalassophobia comes from the inescapable vastness of the body of water. Below zero was an afterthought, not a follow up. A voiced protagonist, silly story, duller exploration, an obviously less exciting experience.
Gotta say, I think the biome design is the strongest point of Below Zero. While the bioluminescence could and should be dialed back in terms of sheer brightness, the rest of the biome design is ultimately pretty strong. Namely, the Lily Pad and Vent Garden Biomes. I particularly liked how you can see an organism's lifecycle throughout their biome. It's remniscient of how Reapers would always flock to areas with low visibility in the original game.
I think that if we could see more of that kind of design in the proper sequel to Subnautica, it'll be all the better for it. Especially if they expand upon it, and we can see some inter-biome interactions or migrations between them.
I prefer the first game, but the beauty of the second one is great. Yet I want Subnautica 3 to be more like Subnautica 1. Focused on terror
whenever release order is mentioned I always have to say as someone who played below zero first that should be the recommended way to play it for new players of all subnautica games because it is more hand holdy than subnautica so/and you don't know what you are missing out on with subnautica in below zero but the one exception the jukebox (my favourite item) and it makes sense with the tonal shift of sub and below zero and from the stuff I have seen I feel like I enjoyed bz more than the release order people because they knew what they were missing out on.
Cool your fucking jets bro it'll be out when it's done.
A few comments I’ve got:
1. While the cramped spaces of BZ *are* terrible for base building, I think they give a great claustrophobic aspect to the game. I also just love exploring all the little nooks and crannies, but that’s just me. That being said, Subnautica is a thalassophic game series, not a claustrophobic one. Subnautica 2 ideally should have both, but more open biomes like the first game.
2. BZ being pretty *does* take away from the scare factor a little bit, but I think it’s worth it, because oh my god that game is beautiful.
We need a mix of both sparse biomes and dense biomes. Dangerous biomes benefit from the sparseness, and peaceful ones benefit from density.
3. The early access not being present is a little scary, but I think it may be because they’re just trying to work out UE5?? But then again they had in-game screen shots that looked super polished, so that points to the contrary. Perhaps they just want more to show us at early-access launch? It is kind of unnerving.
4. Have faith in these devs. They love the games as much as we do, and they’ve surely seen all our criticisms and praises. Cautious faith though, anything can happen.
5. Great video, really enjoyed it!
I started playing below zero firstly (because i was new) 2 months ago.
The second i heard about the first game, i bought it and from that moment on never touched below zero to this day (well, more because i havent finished the first game yet)
3:44 and China (reference to the sparce reef soundtrack)
totally agree with the thoughts on tonal shift: the biomes and locations in subnautica felt expansive, beautiful, full of/devoid of life, and dangerous. below zero is for sure still beautiful, but it almost completely loses that lonesome dread that subnautica has.
desperately hoping that the next game goes in a less-linear, darker direction, closer to subnautica!
I know we all wanna see what they've got for subnautica 2, but it's better to be patient and wait for when the devs are ready than for the community to sit and demand something sooner while it's not ready. A similar thing happened to Cyberpunk 2077 and we all know how that went. Just be patient everyone.
I know that the biomes that they can get the closest to below zero are the more tropical and surface level ones
I have yet to be actually able to play below zero. But back when i had yet to play even subnautica and could only watch letsplays i enjoyed them bothe equally and its still the same they play differently but are still both objectively and subjectively good games
its crazy that the quality of this video is so high for such a small creator. keep it up this is really well made!
Thanks! I've got a new one in the works that hopefully will be even better!
I was setting up my TV to place of Nautica today but then remember that my cat needs it for cat TV and so I had toset it back up
Finishing Subnautica left me wanting for more
Finishing Below Zero felt like a relief
I liked that you didn't just start shitting below zero just because of the lack of a cyclops, for example, but in my opinion you assessed subnautica and sbz fairly objectively. Actually, I'm a little sad that everyone likes sbz less, but after this video, I really understand that it's better to let the developers look towards subnautica when developing a new part. Cool video, I wish the developers would watch it
I think its good they dont release Subnautica 2 in an early access state. Feedback is good but not from everyone. i trust in their ability to make another great Game.
Tbh i would be happy subnautica 2 was the same as subnautica 1 but with a bigger map and more fish
I just really like exploring that world, building bases and running from Leviathans
Surely a silent protagonist is more immersive?
was expecting news or something then it just turned into the usual subnautica fan saying bz is bad 😭
@soifonbleh BZ isn't bad, it just had a troubled development with the wrong priorities. It's still a good game, but it just doesn't stack up to the original.
It’s probably not in early access yet cus there taking there time to create a game that’s on par or even better than the first
Honestly idc about the below zero stuff, the complaints people have. I just want aquariums for fish. And weird tube boxes for leviathans I lead in
I absolutely disagree with the story and characters from BZ. They were all pretty bad and there was way too much conversation. Character logs and isolation are the way to go. Being the only human on a dangerous alien world is compelling - having some obtusely overpowered NPC there with you like Marguerite is jarring, or having Alan to talk your ear off and guide you in a linear fashion like a Ubisoft game completely breaks that immersion. The story should be in the background of a game like this.
I disagree with you on several points. Just because early access will not be releasing this year does not mean that it never will, and in fact, in the very next line they say “think our early access update model”, which to me says that they fully intend to actually do early access.
Also, I am not concerned that multiplayer will take primary focus as they say in the line after the one I previously mentioned that “the game is not multiplayer-focused” and that it will be “entirely optional”.
I totally agree with you that Below Zero was bad because they didn’t take early access feedback, but I hope the response to its mixed reviews is them trying to restore that former Subnautica glory they got from the first game.
My greatest fear for Subnautica 2 is that the firing of Simon Chylinski many years ago is going to make it noticeably worse than the original. The man said some weird stuff on Twitter, I know, but he was the backbone of the original game. He made every sound effect and every song, and while I love Ben Prunty, (because, like your favorite game is Celeste, my SECOND favorite game is Celeste, only beaten by Subnautica lol,) I don’t think he captured the same feel at all. Also the sound effects in Below Zero are awful. I get that I’m playing an underwater game, but I don’t understand why every nice, crisp, juicy sound effect from the original needs to be changed to sound like my ears are full of water in Below Zero. Also Below Zero never allows for quiet, and there’s no space to think compared to the silent terror of the original, though I bet you also watched those same video essays about terror vs horror that I did (as evidenced by your mentioning of them in the video) so I don’t need to tell you that lol
A much smaller disagreement I have with you is that the human like face of the reaper is scary. To me, it makes it look goofy lol and that the ghost leviathan’s otherworldly appearance is much scarier. That’s totally a matter of personal preference, however, and does not matter at all, which is why I just made it a reply to my own comment instead of part of the comment itself lol
@stellanovaluna I would put in a really long-winded, witty reply here, but all I've got is "bars"
Good points all around
@@thetallpancake I will say that I can’t completely disagree with your early access comments, however, because they were very vague and the way they said “think our early access UPDATE model” could be interpreted as like minor updates instead of actually making the game in the public eye like they did the first one. I mean they are being EXTREMELY silent about the game in general which means they COULD just turn around and be like “yeah actually the game is just finished now, here’s early access so you can report your bugs to us but we don’t care about your design feedback” so I can’t completely discard your points as you could be totally right and we have no way of knowing until we get the early access
Oh yeah, also I wish Robyn would shut the f@&% up. I much prefer a silent protagonist and no dialogue at all except remnants of recorded conversations, and she’s actually so annoying I hate her and in fact the only character I don’t hate is Alan because he is ny bbg (gay)
I honestly don’t have any criticisms for the games aside from that the Cyclops couldn’t be maneuvered well around the safe shallows, and I had a felt sense that almost every location put it in jeopardy, and seeing that it was supposed to be like a remote base, made it seem like it couldn’t be used a lot. Like it was too valuable to lose, and that it was easy to lose.
I think the developers should consider scenarios by which the players will make good use of a large submarine like the cyclops, and then build the resource and crafting mechanics to serve that experience.
This was really well put together and makes some very good points. I enjoyed below zero as much as the first game but in different ways. I feel like its possible to combine the conceps of both, although it may prove challenging. If the map is much bigger you can have plenty of open space and claustrophobic areas on a smaller scale its like the grand reef and dunes with the trench in the middle.
I'm cautiously optimistic for subnautica 2, personally I think Subnautica BZ was pretty good, (I know unpopular opinion) ofc it has its flaws and I still prefer the first, but im sure they have heard a lot of the criticism, And with multiplayer bound to be fun, and it running on UE5 it will be stunning.
I really hope Below Zero gets steam deck verified at some point they just have to fix the keyboard not working everything else has been fine
The worst thing about below zero in my opinion is the map size, it feels too crowded and I feel like there's no room to breathe. Every cool base location is either dangerous or there's an alterra base there already. Every other location is generic and boring. The original didn't have this problem.
Maybe after the 2 games they are confident they know what the community wants
I hate how they took subnautica off of game pass so I couldn’t play it, and I had just got to the lost river
dareth pfp based
they are still going to do early access thats what one of the devs said they probably wont even release the game ti like 26-28
Early access isn't till 2025. That's the problem.
Bro that’s one year we don’t need early access that bad
@buildcraftgaming1548 it's not the wait time that's the issue, it's the missing feedback. The longer it takes to fix an issue, the less likely it gets fixed.
@@thetallpancake I must respectfully disagree. Consider this: the franchise is well-established and just moving the timeline back is not the same as less feedback - I'd posit that they will get MORE feedback in a shorter time given the number of people who WILL join an abbreviated Early Access. In other words, perhaps Early Access is less needed this time around, given the substantial feedback, mods and user community that already exists? Wouldn't it be better to focus on assets and plot since core gameplay mechanics (minus some inevitable changes) are already sorted? I work in Software Product Management and iterative releases are always better, given lessons learned form the past. I see a shorter EA period for Sub2 as an indication that the studio is doing things correctly; even if there are issues at launch, they've built trust and have demonstrated passion for continued work on the series, no? If this were a different game, I'd be cautious, but as this is a sequel / plot-related next chapter, I don't think there is reason to really lament a shorter EA period, regardless of when it comes. Of course, the gameplay remains to be seen- I think the transition to the new engine is the absolute highest priority to address, so please don't worry! :)
@@thetallpancake you’re right, but I feel like it’s not abnormal to keep a game sort of hidden from the world for a long time. The original game spoiled us with it’s years of early access lol
I liked the first video game, I'm gonna play subzero because I just care of more subnautica and i don't matter if it's worse, i like the alien fish and cool biomes. I don't really care how subnautica 2 is gonna be, if it is not a cyberpunk 2 im gonna play it and enjoy it. And that makes me happy
I have so many counter points but meh why bother
Can someone please DM the devs and tell them to bring back the old computer voice, and not the one they used for Below Zero.
@VaShthestampede2 I mean I did reach Obraxis with this video, maybe I'll put in a tidbit in the next one
2:51 What biome was this background footage recorded in?
I'm actually really happy you asked! That's a little-known part of the crash zone known as the Crash Zone Mesa. I sometimes build there to flex because it is constantly swarmed with 3+ Reapers. There are a couple plateaus of Mesa, and they are all behind the Aurora.
@omegaotaku1342 WAIT YOU MADE KRIS GET THE PRUNSEL WHAT-
@@thetallpancake finally some recognition
@@thetallpancake and no, i don't feel like making a part 2 right now
@@thetallpancake No wonder I've never seen that spot. I thought I knew this game inside and out but most people don't explore every square inch of the Crash Zone.
Well unkown worlds is also busy with a different game knowing they have been bought out aswel...
And the fact they say not intended for 2024 says to me that 2 wil come earliest 2025 if not later meanings yes there still wil be early acces just not this year...
3/4 of the subnautica devs are working on a turn-based strategy game with nothing to do with subnautica and its their main focus, the other quarter is working in the background coming up with ideas for another subnautica. But its only idea making at this point, there have been a few that i liked personally for a subnautica 3 but its all just community ideas at this point. Subnautica: Genesis (takes place after below zero and you team with Alan to cure a mutated version of the kahraa) and Subnautica: Crush depth (takes place in a deep part of the subnautica world where you are trying to get to the surface and escape rather than going deeper)
Subnautica players don’t know fear until they play natural selection
the game probably isn’t receiving an early access this early because it’s live service? they’re gonna keep updating the game for a long time so “early access” wouldn’t really matter since it’s gonna be perpetually in development
I disagree with almost all points. I really enjoyed below zero because it was so detailed and shiny. I also love that they try new things. I think that now that they have feedback from the two different games, they are gonna knock it out of the park with the third one.
Im excited for Subnautica 2. But to be honest I really wanted to see what would happen with Robin and Al-an. But if they did continue that story, would it even be Subnautica anymore? Because we wouldnt be on 4546b. We'd be exploring the architect world and seeing if we can find more of them. Which I would still love regardless. Maybe theyd go back to 4546b looking for other stuff, who knows. But yeah definitely excited for Subnautica 2 but also really wanted more Robin and Al-an
@@Collinl5406 I'd love a spinoff on that, maybe expanded media!
my main hope is that subnautica 2 will be more agoraphobic like the OG instead of claustrophobic like the expansion
Look, I don’t mind the interesting new design with below zeroes leviathans, with their arthropod like design, I just feel they weren’t properly implemented to be scary. The biomes seemed too friendly for the most part, and the AI seems a little… drab. The reapers roamed the land, traveling vast distances, while the chelicerates kinda circle a small part of the map.
with below zero, you had to start over again with every update just to get a new piece of the story, it was so boring after the 40est time knowing every place on the not so big map, the early access totally ruined it for me
Personally I liked the art direction of Below Zero's biomes. Just wish they weren't so cramped and had better transitions instead of water just jarringly changing color. Plot in Below Zero was so terrible though.
Below Zero came so soon after the release of subnautica because it was planned as a dlc and the team worked on it while working on subnautica. Even now where it’s a game that stands by itself, it uses the same engine. Now, I believe the only reason subnautica 2 could possibly take a few years instead of a few days compared to 1 and below zero, is because they use a whole new engine to give us a massive new game. Any other explanation would also be pretty disappointing. As for ideas for the next game, I think they should do more stuff like the sunbeam being destroyed. Yk, hope building up you are gonna be safer or not alone and it all gets destroyed by the cruel world around you. Maybe we could actually see a leviathan rip apart a lifepod or even person. I would like to see the world become full of life instead of only hearing data logs about how dangerous everything is supposed to be. Interaction with the different creatures and people there and seeing some gruesome shit would be part of that.
Well they did say they had to switch to Unreal engine 5, which meant they basically had to remake most of, if not all their assets. Including the ocean effect. Which took a long time to figure out, which they now had to remake with a new version
Honestly I prefer developers to throw surprises at me. I don’t mind suspense, I got many games I still haven’t had time to try because I work so much.
I more inclined to ask developers of any game to spring the release only a few months before release for optimal warning and suspense.
If you like the game a second one; regardless when it’s released, will pull in the player base. If made well, it will pull new players looking for something new to try out and be in the know of present gaming culture activities.😂
so far, im only 2:41 in, but ive gotta say ive personally seen below zeros flaws as a result of
1) they tried something new (more narrative focus)
2) they listened *too much in the wrong way* to feedback of people saying it didnt feel as isolated or scary as the first game
3) instead of staying committed to the narrative that they had, which they had made the world with it in mind... they hard pivoted to a more "generic subnautica-ified" game, with trying to capture the feeling of isolation and loneliness by... just retconning every character that was alive in early access to be ... dead?
4) womp womp dissonance between world and story
so like, i think a big thing we'll have to see is HOW they listen to feedback. it is often said that players are good at identifying problems, but not coming up with solutions. that falls on the devs
ideally... their solutions in subnautica 2 will not end up massively shifting the direction of the entire game
i really do think below zero would've felt more cohesive if they had stuck to what they had planned. even if it wouldnt have felt as much like subnautica... i think thats fine! it would've stood out as something unique, and for a "subnautica 1 and a half" game i think that would've worked really well
either way, im sure subnautica 2 will be a return to form... though, there IS also the fact that the main writer(s) left the team in the middle of below zeros development? and the story was entirely rewritten several times in early access? im not super informed on that part, though
what i do know though is that i can FEEL the amount that they tried to pivot away from what they had, to try and desperately find the "subnautica factor" and kinda ended up with the worst of both worlds; below zero didnt get to fully shine its character driven story as it was held back by the loneliness/isolation, and the attempted isolation/loneliness didnt work because of the remaining character driven story elements
overall below zeros world feels like it was MADE for the original story, not the story that we now have in below zero. and because of that, its just kinda awkward. you cant change one without changing the other if they're so intertwined (which in subnauticas case, they are!)
Ahh yes de ocean the most exciting thing that you can drown and go to God 0:04
“Where is early access?” On the computer
interesting points on the biomes trying to be more pretty in below zero... but feeling less believable, less able to be immersed in...
honestly? yeah. it is quite weird that theres even such a tropical aquarium under the ARCTIC of the planet
and also, definitely, the creature designs are... definitely trying a bit hard to be intentionally "alien yet believable"
I get the unease, but we haven’t seen anything of the game yet man. All we have is some in game picture of a few things they got, and honestly? It looks really good alredy. They’re going to go into early access, that’s been in their playbook for a while. But even if they don’t, the devs know what made the original great, they still have that feedback. And I know a lot of people see the first game as a “accidental masterpiece” because of below zero not living up too it, but BZ isn’t seen as a sequal by the devs. They see it as more of a spin-off, an experiment. And to me, that gives me way more confidence, as they already have a good idea of what changes they could do to the originals formula, and what they shouldn’t change due to BZ’s reception. The devs are smart, they know what made their game great, you don’t make something as immersive as the original by accident. And they even said that the next game is going to be much more like the original rather than BZ. Put some trust in em. This is going to be a hella big game, so it’s going to take them a while. They want to have something decent to show off for early access before they launch it, and I respect that. From the way they talk, they love the community, and really respect our takes. Give em some time and trust. From the few images we’ve seen so far the game already looks like it’s going to be stunning, and the newest one in that cave looking area captures a bit of that beutuful yet unsettling vibe many areas of the areas in the original had. But they’re still going to take feedback. All this to say, let em cook bro. I think this game will turn out to be something great, will it differ from the original? Probably at least a bit, but I want that, I don’t want the same damn game again, because we already have Subnautica. At the end of the day, the original ain’t goin anywhere, so give the devs time and let’s see what they cook up
My main point was that having that feedback from the earliest point possible would help them fix more foundational flaws. But yeah, I'll let em cook 🔥
@@thetallpancake true, but I think it’ll still be pretty early in development when they actually do release the early access. With how much bigger and denser this game will be, both graphically and physically, it’s gonna take a hella long time to make. They got time, and they’re willing to listen to the community, they’ve shown that. So I think we’re gonna have a good game on our hands. Only time will tell though
I don’t think I’d entirely agree with the idea that Below Zero’s tone is dampened by a “lack of realism” for the sake of being pretty. There are many points in the original game where you come across biomes that don’t look particularly grounded in reality like the Jelly Shroom caves or the Lost River, but they work because they inspire that awe of wonder. While below zero seems to just be surface deep with many of its designs, and like you stated feel particularly cramped with nothing to find and nowhere to go.
The environments should be made with thought in them and consider what lives there, why does it exist, and how should it affect the player. Observing Penglings and Snow Stalkers with the robot may be realistic, but it doesn’t offer any meaningful experience for the player.
Wow i cant belive im seeing a new popular youtuber in the making!!!
personally, i hope the subnauitca fandom stays strong like the geometry dash fandom. i hope subnautica 2 releses very soon (maybe 2025 when the other games released?) so, as long as we keep patient. we should be good. and with that, we have a fun update, also the subnatutica mod community is not dead. as long as mod creators have more content, the fandom will be alive. lets hope the best for OUR funny fish game. :D
Sorry why are you calling it subnautica 2 when it's the third game
@@thespinogamer81 they call it subnatica 2.
@@thespinogamer81 i am simply following a trenf
Below zero is a standalone dlc so there's nothing wrong with it.
Both games are great.
You’ve earned yourself a subscription good sir
the devs better see this-
One can hope.
Funny fish game
Underrated.
Early Access sounds good but too early and some fans will assume the game is going to be bad, they aren't all smart. Then you have the opposite problem where Below Zero had a better story and more exciting Iceworm AI in Early Access than in the full build.
Honestly I would have preferred if they'd made Steam Workshop a priority before a new game, mods have been keeping the community afloat (pun intended) and encouraging as many people as possible to use them just makes sense. Maybe in the next one, we'll see in time. Thanks for the dancing Eevee with timestamp btw.
@greenhowie The dancing eevee took me like 3 hours and I still got it wrong. Thanks for appreciating that, you're the only one who has.
not much of a future for a finished game i mean subnautica and subnautica below zero are finished games to my knowledge tho im not so sure about below zero yet
Below zero has been out for 3 years. Subnautica 2 is the third game, confusing as it may be.
I was really let down by Below Zero. To be fair, it had massive shoes to fill as I consider the original to be one of - if not THE - best gaming experiences of the past 20 years. It made me want to abandon my career and become a marine biologist! I hope they lean in deep to the strengths of Subnautica but make it larger, nonlinear, more dangerous, silent protagonist, and keep the story in the background. And please let us select the voice of the PDA - the one in BZ was ultra annoying.
They switched engines so it isn't really a surprise that we haven't heard much.
Yup. We switched to Unreal Engine 5, which means we’re building everything from scratch. The brand new world, and all tools we need to build the game. Plus, learning the new engine. It’s taking a while indeed, but we’ll start talking about SN2 soon.
WHAT!? YOU SAW MY STUPID LITTLE VIDEO??? HUH???
THANK YOU SO MUCH
@thetallpancake Yup! And please keep giving your open critique, it keeps us honest and helps us make better games. 😊
@@Obraxis I was sort of uninformed for this one, as many of the comments here pointed out. I'm putting together another vid as we speak that takes a look at open-world progression as a topic, and the game you helped make is in pride of place!
@@Obraxisshoot your THE obraxis, nice
iirc they are making subnautica 2 on unreal engine (not the same engine used for original subnautica) so it will obviously take longer to make even early access