Some basic biomechanics:- As the velocity of muscle contraction increaces the amount of force that can be applied to the pedals diminishes. It occurrs to me that since the Tongsheng motor utilises a torque sensor the amount of motor assist supplied at high cadences may be less than expected. In order to get the maximum amount of assistance from your motor I suggest that you should pedal hard at a much lower cadence, (a high speed gear ratio). Power is the product of both force and velocity so if you wish to maximise muscular imput you need to pedal at the optimum combination of force and velocity. If I recall correctly sources on Cycling biomechanics state that this is at about a cadence of 60 RPM. (Just observe the cadence that professional cyclists on the Tour de France usually pedal at), If you want the maximum combination of muscular and motor power then you will need to experiment!
The opensource firmware fixes all that, it produces power as a combination of torque at low speed and cadence at high speed. Just use power mode with boost and enable high cadence mode. If you pedal really quick the power increases near then end. Its amazing
Really appreciate the content on this motor. Starting my build tomorrow as all my parts will finally be in. Your vids definitely helped me pick the TS over bafang as that's what everyone I know has.
You won’t regret it the bafang doesn’t have a torque sensor so it doesn’t know how fast you want to go. Everyone will be really jealous when you give them a ride.
The bafang bbs02b i got tries to spin at 70 rpm (no load) on assist level 1 and 140 rpm (no load) on assist level 5. It does not resist higher pedaling speeds as there is a freewheel but will not provide assistance if you pedal faster than this. It also means that you should be upping the cadence as you go up the assist levels in order that the motor is not becoming inefficient (e.g. pedaling 40 rpm in assist level 5 labouring the motor when it really wants to do 100+ rpm for power efficiency and motor life). However you can cruise in a high gear on assist level 1 with some pedaling to keep it going. I will know for certain once it's fitted, though I will try and keep the cadence up on higher assist levels long term, rather than bogging the motor down in too big a gear. The "assist sensors" are fairly basic on the kit but they are not my primary focus even though I am curious to try out a kit that responds immediately with an exact multiple of pedaling effort, making the bike more of an "audio amplifier" when it comes to the input signal of your pedal stroke.
I find it better than the bosch in that regard. Power mode gives a good mix of torque vs cadence, whereas the bosch is more torque based which doesn't suit commuting.
FYI I had a huge loss in power in the 36v experimental mode. I had upgraded the battery at the same time so I turned up the power level and didn’t realize the difference, I kept riding it like that for about a week. When I eventually tried turning it back, it was like a new bike. I’ll never use that mode again, whatever was done to the timing robbed all performance from my motor. I wish there was a mode that removed the 90rpm limit( I’m still at 36v howeverI’ll upgrade eventually) but left the timing alone.
It's very easy to only remove the rpm limit but without modifying the timing it oses power early anyway. Which version are you using ? Would you like me to compile a version for you ?
@@jbalatutube I'm on 19x. I'm planning to make a custom 15s 62v battery when i get a DIY spot welder working consistently, then the limit would be an issue. Sure absolutely, if you could remove that limit it would be a huge help. Would i still be able to use 19x? I love the firmware and haven't upgraded but i haven't felt a need to, it just works exactly how i want it to. The only gripe i have is with the low cadence limit, but at the moment i can only blame myself for being cheap and using two $30 36v hoverboard batteries.
kill switch ha ha well you could be limited in amps if batteries can’t deliver. You can monitor Amps on the display. Version 20b1 has a lot of fixes and went on like a charm first go. I would highly recommend it.
@@jbalatutube Yes i monitor amps and voltage primarily, to manage my consumption. Ok i ill check what was changed. However if its anything about the power delivery then there's no way. i like the wattage calculations 19x has because it greatly reduces power at low cadence(keeping the motor efficient and cool). The hoverboard batteries work surprisingly well. Even a single 10s2p in a bike bag gets 5-10 miles. heat/current wise one of them can handle more power than the motor can. I just stick two in a hailong case mounted with bell clinch 700 mounts and its done. $63 battery, $45 case, $10 soldering iron, $3 Xt60 parallel connector, $10 mount. less than $135 total.
Hi, ii have the 48v version of this motor and im looking to install the osf on my stock vlcd5 display and all i want from the open source firmware is to have the open to run unlimited cadence but no one has talked about how to configure it using the software. Did you configure this using the configurator or something else?
How is the motor holding up over long term use? I'm interested in the TSDZ2 for all-weather commuting on a city bike, and I've heard that it might not be as reliable as the BBS02. Also, have you done any of the cooling mods listed on the wiki?
I have done more than 20000km with no cooling mod but I ride at normal bike speed and don’t have many hills. If you want to go fast without any effort then go for the bbs02. If you want to feel like you are riding a normal bike with some assistance then I can recommend this motor for a cheap diy setup
Thanks this, was interesting. I have a TSDZ2 with the open source firmware and it does hit the cadence limit. What are the downsides to unlimiting this? i have other TSDZ2 motors with stock firmware and I run in a low gear with a high candence quite a bit. I was under the impression that this was good for keeping the motor cool.
Robert Wright no problem I have always run this way. The new version for the 860 display has a huge power boost at high cadence unfortunately it doesn’t work with the ktlcd3
Hi is this beta version 2 still available to down load as I can't seem to find it on the git hub , seems to keep steering me towards the new 850 display.. I would like to use the Old KT LCD3 . Any ideas?
Thank you a loyal follower haha, I've seen lots of guys in rc get into ebikes. Even better when you can use your ebike to get to some cool locations and fly your drone ;)
Advice please l have installed the 48v version with the 850 display , with a 20ah 48v battery from a different supplier . All has been working well for a few months but recently when going uphill using power assist 5 all power cuts out. It sometimes resets if I disconnect & reconnect the battery , but sometimes I have to plug in the charger to reset it. This has happened after riding for only 30 seconds or an hour , so I don't think it is temperature related . Charge level was showing 50.4v before the last time it happened.
It could be you have a bad cell in your pack that is triggering low voltage cutoff on your bms. You need to draw some high load across the pack and measure individual cell voltages. They should all be within 0.1v of each other
jbalatutube thanks, I will try that if it gets worse , I have fully charged it this morning (54.6 volts when finished ) given it a short ride of about 20 mins , up some steep hills but only power assist 4 and had no problems. Battery voltage after resting for 3 hours is 53.4 , I usually like it around 51v if I am not going to be using it for a while.
I just mounted a tsdz2 750W with a 48 volt battery on my moutainbike, I am a bit disappointed when it comes to speed, just over 30 kph or 20 mph on flat, I'm a lightweight person. With open-source firmware, can I expect higher top speed, or do I have to change front sprocket to bigger?
Hans Nyberg ha ha well it’s all about the cadence !! The Opensource will give you more power so you will be able to get another 5kms without trying any harder and the experimental mode will give you and extra 5km/hr assuming your legs can keep up. Ultimately if you are a bit of a speed freak then run a 52 tooth at the front and 13tooth on the back then set your power assist to 500% and you will be flying. Good luck.
48v has more torque and runs cooler but you need a 48v battery which is a bit heavier and more expensive so up to you. Keep the nylon gear it’s quieter and You may be lucky it could last for ages. Keep in mind this is not a Bafang it can’t sustain high power for long periods so if you are a big guy wanting to do hill climbs then it’s not for you
I have a 500watt 48 volt motor fitted to a Recumbent Trike. I am not looking for high performance but cruising comfort at a medium cadence would this firmware suite my purpose. another problem is the speed sensor jumps around anywere between 0 and 99kmph. I have tried adjusting pickup and magnet but the only way I can ride is to remove the magnet, any suggestions
For sure the firmware is a major improvement just like having a new motor. I'm not sure the firmware will work without a good speed sensor. Mine was plying around too and it was just a bad connection. Good luck
Is the temperature still an issue where it gets up at 75 easily and doesn't cool back down quickly? I was wondering if some heat sink compound between the motor and the outer case housing could help. Or someone could weld on some heat fins possibly?
It hasn't been an issue for me since I am normally home when that happens since I live on top of a hill. If you do have a problem then you can get some conducting pads about 3mm thick to install between the motor and casing. It does help a little.
I knocked about 20˚C off temperatures by stuffing conductive pads under the case, the OSF appears to have cooled the motor by another 5 or 10˚ too. Can't get the motor above 43˚C now. Summer will be 15˚ warmer, still doubt temps will ever get high again. I think the pads help a lot.
Hi just wonder if anyone has experienced what I have encountered! I have installed the Tongsheng TSDZ2H 36V 250W and it seems rides all fine on a normal cruising until when you come to a stop or at lights and when you start peddling again, I find it a bit sluggish and even jerking, I did not change the gear number on the bike when I stopped before start again, whether that was causing the problem? Until you need to ride some distance before it's back to normal or did it!? I found some funny reading on the controller as well!? It certainly feels very abnormal unless I’ve missed something! Is it me or a faulty unit? I also own Bafand rear hub and Yose Power front hub both doesn’t gave me that problem? Hope someone is able to provide some advice and very much appreciated. P
A Yau yes you need to ride it like a normal bike, before you stop you need to change down gears or else the motor won’t have enough torque to get you going quickly, you may even have the chain slip too. With the Opensource firmware you can bump up the power and control how fast the amps are applied at startup to prevent the chain slipping but don’t expect to take off in a hard gear, for that you should be looking at a hub motor.
@@jbalatutube Very much appreciate your valuable advice and it works! I took it out for a spin and followed your guidance and it has solved every single problem I encountered. It is extremely useful information regarding this aspect. I suppose I need to get more used to the system in order to appreciate more what a torque sensor is all about! I already feel that I have more control of the bike opposed to the cadence sensors. Many thanks again for your help.
Yes 42, I think I have 38 on the back and 26inch wheels, I have had no issues with steep hills however I use my trek Powerfly for off-road now and I have been using the tsdz for commuting now.
@@jbalatutube I will be using my bike for both commuting and mountain biking, so I want to choose a good compromise of speed and climbing ability. My cassette is a 9-speed, 11-34. Eco-cycle sells either a 34 or 42 tooth chainring. Which do you recommend?
Some basic biomechanics:-
As the velocity of muscle contraction increaces the amount of force that can be applied to the pedals diminishes.
It occurrs to me that since the Tongsheng motor utilises a torque sensor the amount of motor assist supplied at high cadences may be less than expected.
In order to get the maximum amount of assistance from your motor I suggest that you should pedal hard at a much lower cadence, (a high speed gear ratio).
Power is the product of both force and velocity so if you wish to maximise muscular imput you need to pedal at the optimum combination of force and velocity.
If I recall correctly sources on Cycling biomechanics state that this is at about a cadence of 60 RPM. (Just observe the cadence that professional cyclists on the Tour de France usually pedal at),
If you want the maximum combination of muscular and motor power then you will need to experiment!
The opensource firmware fixes all that, it produces power as a combination of torque at low speed and cadence at high speed. Just use power mode with boost and enable high cadence mode. If you pedal really quick the power increases near then end. Its amazing
Nice work, would a 36v 250w set up benefit from this firmware?
The open-source firmware is a game changer of an already alright ebike motor setup. Thanks for your videos, it helped me alot with my setup!
Glad to hear. Yeh it's amazing that tgere are still people out there reluctant to change to open source
Really appreciate the content on this motor. Starting my build tomorrow as all my parts will finally be in. Your vids definitely helped me pick the TS over bafang as that's what everyone I know has.
You won’t regret it the bafang doesn’t have a torque sensor so it doesn’t know how fast you want to go. Everyone will be really jealous when you give them a ride.
The bafang bbs02b i got tries to spin at 70 rpm (no load) on assist level 1 and 140 rpm (no load) on assist level 5. It does not resist higher pedaling speeds as there is a freewheel but will not provide assistance if you pedal faster than this. It also means that you should be upping the cadence as you go up the assist levels in order that the motor is not becoming inefficient (e.g. pedaling 40 rpm in assist level 5 labouring the motor when it really wants to do 100+ rpm for power efficiency and motor life). However you can cruise in a high gear on assist level 1 with some pedaling to keep it going. I will know for certain once it's fitted, though I will try and keep the cadence up on higher assist levels long term, rather than bogging the motor down in too big a gear.
The "assist sensors" are fairly basic on the kit but they are not my primary focus even though I am curious to try out a kit that responds immediately with an exact multiple of pedaling effort, making the bike more of an "audio amplifier" when it comes to the input signal of your pedal stroke.
Cool, now if only it had a torque sensor.
It depends on what you use the bike for. I am looking a.torque sensing mid drive motor to help headwind and uphill riding.
I find it better than the bosch in that regard. Power mode gives a good mix of torque vs cadence, whereas the bosch is more torque based which doesn't suit commuting.
FYI I had a huge loss in power in the 36v experimental mode. I had upgraded the battery at the same time so I turned up the power level and didn’t realize the difference, I kept riding it like that for about a week. When I eventually tried turning it back, it was like a new bike. I’ll never use that mode again, whatever was done to the timing robbed all performance from my motor.
I wish there was a mode that removed the 90rpm limit( I’m still at 36v howeverI’ll upgrade eventually) but left the timing alone.
It's very easy to only remove the rpm limit but without modifying the timing it oses power early anyway. Which version are you using ? Would you like me to compile a version for you ?
@@jbalatutube I'm on 19x. I'm planning to make a custom 15s 62v battery when i get a DIY spot welder working consistently, then the limit would be an issue.
Sure absolutely, if you could remove that limit it would be a huge help. Would i still be able to use 19x?
I love the firmware and haven't upgraded but i haven't felt a need to, it just works exactly how i want it to. The only gripe i have is with the low cadence limit, but at the moment i can only blame myself for being cheap and using two $30 36v hoverboard batteries.
kill switch ha ha well you could be limited in amps if batteries can’t deliver. You can monitor Amps on the display. Version 20b1 has a lot of fixes and went on like a charm first go. I would highly recommend it.
@@jbalatutube Yes i monitor amps and voltage primarily, to manage my consumption. Ok i ill check what was changed. However if its anything about the power delivery then there's no way. i like the wattage calculations 19x has because it greatly reduces power at low cadence(keeping the motor efficient and cool).
The hoverboard batteries work surprisingly well. Even a single 10s2p in a bike bag gets 5-10 miles. heat/current wise one of them can handle more power than the motor can. I just stick two in a hailong case mounted with bell clinch 700 mounts and its done. $63 battery, $45 case, $10 soldering iron, $3 Xt60 parallel connector, $10 mount. less than $135 total.
Hi, ii have the 48v version of this motor and im looking to install the osf on my stock vlcd5 display and all i want from the open source firmware is to have the open to run unlimited cadence but no one has talked about how to configure it using the software. Did you configure this using the configurator or something else?
How is the motor holding up over long term use? I'm interested in the TSDZ2 for all-weather commuting on a city bike, and I've heard that it might not be as reliable as the BBS02. Also, have you done any of the cooling mods listed on the wiki?
I have done more than 20000km with no cooling mod but I ride at normal bike speed and don’t have many hills. If you want to go fast without any effort then go for the bbs02. If you want to feel like you are riding a normal bike with some assistance then I can recommend this motor for a cheap diy setup
Thanks this, was interesting. I have a TSDZ2 with the open source firmware and it does hit the cadence limit. What are the downsides to unlimiting this? i have other TSDZ2 motors with stock firmware and I run in a low gear with a high candence quite a bit. I was under the impression that this was good for keeping the motor cool.
Robert Wright no problem I have always run this way. The new version for the 860 display has a huge power boost at high cadence unfortunately it doesn’t work with the ktlcd3
I know this is an old post, but does this motor kit use applied torque to determine assist or is it cadence based like the bafang? Thanks!!!!
Best would be to run 42V motor with 16s or even 17s. But that requires mods
Hi is this beta version 2 still available to down load as I can't seem to find it on the git hub , seems to keep steering me towards the new 850 display.. I would like to use the Old KT LCD3 . Any ideas?
I just bought a intense m9 frame for this motor do you think it will fit. It's thick around the bb.
I remember your channel for Betaflight ...
Thank you a loyal follower haha, I've seen lots of guys in rc get into ebikes. Even better when you can use your ebike to get to some cool locations and fly your drone ;)
3300 miles in 7 months...no problems...jus peddle harder ...im getting up to 25 easy...28 to 34 miles on a slight slope...im 62
Advice please l have installed the 48v version with the 850 display , with a 20ah 48v battery from a different supplier . All has been working well for a few months but recently when going uphill using power assist 5 all power cuts out. It sometimes resets if I disconnect & reconnect the battery , but sometimes I have to plug in the charger to reset it. This has happened after riding for only 30 seconds or an hour , so I don't think it is temperature related . Charge level was showing 50.4v before the last time it happened.
It could be you have a bad cell in your pack that is triggering low voltage cutoff on your bms. You need to draw some high load across the pack and measure individual cell voltages. They should all be within 0.1v of each other
jbalatutube thanks, I will try that if it gets worse , I have fully charged it this morning (54.6 volts when finished ) given it a short ride of about 20 mins , up some steep hills but only power assist 4 and had no problems. Battery voltage after resting for 3 hours is 53.4 , I usually like it around 51v if I am not going to be using it for a while.
I just mounted a tsdz2 750W with a 48 volt battery on my moutainbike, I am a bit disappointed when it comes to speed, just over 30 kph or 20 mph on flat, I'm a lightweight person.
With open-source firmware, can I expect higher top speed, or do I have to change front sprocket to bigger?
Hans Nyberg ha ha well it’s all about the cadence !! The Opensource will give you more power so you will be able to get another 5kms without trying any harder and the experimental mode will give you and extra 5km/hr assuming your legs can keep up. Ultimately if you are a bit of a speed freak then run a 52 tooth at the front and 13tooth on the back then set your power assist to 500% and you will be flying. Good luck.
I ordered a 52 teeth and will buy the necessary things to replace firmware, looking forward to fly : ) Thanks!
@@hansnyberg5099 And how fast does it go now?
Any advice before I purchase a TSDZ2 for a mtn bike? 36v or 48v version? Should I replace the nylon gear with brass?
48v has more torque and runs cooler but you need a 48v battery which is a bit heavier and more expensive so up to you. Keep the nylon gear it’s quieter and You may be lucky it could last for ages. Keep in mind this is not a Bafang it can’t sustain high power for long periods so if you are a big guy wanting to do hill climbs then it’s not for you
I have a 500watt 48 volt motor fitted to a Recumbent Trike. I am not looking for high performance but cruising comfort at a medium cadence would this firmware suite my purpose. another problem is the speed sensor jumps around anywere between 0 and 99kmph. I have tried adjusting pickup and magnet but the only way I can ride is to remove the magnet, any suggestions
For sure the firmware is a major improvement just like having a new motor. I'm not sure the firmware will work without a good speed sensor. Mine was plying around too and it was just a bad connection. Good luck
Hello! Do you think that TSDZ2 will work with Hollowtech 2 bottom bracket? The bike is Cube SL Road Pro 2016. Thanks!
Alexis there is always a way to make it fit. You can even get longer axles and extension kit to make them fit on fat bikes.
This doesn't sound healthy. It sounds like the blue gear is broken?
Is the temperature still an issue where it gets up at 75 easily and doesn't cool back down quickly? I was wondering if some heat sink compound between the motor and the outer case housing could help. Or someone could weld on some heat fins possibly?
It hasn't been an issue for me since I am normally home when that happens since I live on top of a hill. If you do have a problem then you can get some conducting pads about 3mm thick to install between the motor and casing. It does help a little.
I knocked about 20˚C off temperatures by stuffing conductive pads under the case, the OSF appears to have cooled the motor by another 5 or 10˚ too. Can't get the motor above 43˚C now. Summer will be 15˚ warmer, still doubt temps will ever get high again. I think the pads help a lot.
Hi just wonder if anyone has experienced what I have encountered! I have installed the Tongsheng TSDZ2H 36V 250W and it seems rides all fine on a normal cruising until when you come to a stop or at lights and when you start peddling again, I find it a bit sluggish and even jerking, I did not change the gear number on the bike when I stopped before start again, whether that was causing the problem? Until you need to ride some distance before it's back to normal or did it!? I found some funny reading on the controller as well!? It certainly feels very abnormal unless I’ve missed something! Is it me or a faulty unit? I also own Bafand rear hub and Yose Power front hub both doesn’t gave me that problem? Hope someone is able to provide some advice and very much appreciated. P
A Yau yes you need to ride it like a normal bike, before you stop you need to change down gears or else the motor won’t have enough torque to get you going quickly, you may even have the chain slip too. With the Opensource firmware you can bump up the power and control how fast the amps are applied at startup to prevent the chain slipping but don’t expect to take off in a hard gear, for that you should be looking at a hub motor.
@@jbalatutube Very much appreciate your valuable advice and it works! I took it out for a spin and followed your guidance and it has solved every single problem I encountered. It is extremely useful information regarding this aspect. I suppose I need to get more used to the system in order to appreciate more what a torque sensor is all about! I already feel that I have more control of the bike opposed to the cadence sensors. Many thanks again for your help.
What size front chainring do you use? Stock 42t? How is that for climbing hills?
Yes 42, I think I have 38 on the back and 26inch wheels, I have had no issues with steep hills however I use my trek Powerfly for off-road now and I have been using the tsdz for commuting now.
@@jbalatutube I will be using my bike for both commuting and mountain biking, so I want to choose a good compromise of speed and climbing ability. My cassette is a 9-speed, 11-34. Eco-cycle sells either a 34 or 42 tooth chainring. Which do you recommend?
@@hiphopsuperman I’m happy with stock 42 and 11-38 on 26 inch wheels good for commuting and climbing.
@@jbalatutube thanks 🙏
@@jbalatutube btw, is your Facebook page still active? I sent a join request, but no reply.
The thing I notice in this vid is the noise of the motor, pretty irritating.
It has been loud for a long time and I finally got irritated myself. I switched back to the nylon blue gear and it is super quiet now.