[IT] Il limite massimo di potenza nominale per le bici elettriche in Italia è di 250W. Anche limitando la velocità a 25Km/h, una bicicletta che sviluppi una potenza nominale maggiore di 250W (anche 500W) non si può usare sulle strade pubbliche Italiane. Chi lo fa si assume la responsabilità delle proprie azioni (e contravvenzioni). Questo video è da intendersi a solo scopo dimostrativo e NON è da intendersi come esempio da imitare. Poichè è destinato ad un audience più ampio che l'Europa, è stato scelto un 500W come esempio per mostrare le capacità del motore. --- [FR] La puissance nominale maximale autorisée pour les vélos électriques en France est de 250W. Même si la vitesse est limitée à 25 km/h, un vélo qui développe une puissance nominale supérieure à 250W (même 500W) ne peut pas être utilisé sur la voie publique français. Ceux qui le font s'assument la responsabilité de leurs actions (et amendes). Cette vidéo est finalisé uniquement à la démonstration et n'est PAS à un exemple à imiter. Comme il est destiné à un public plus large que l'Europe, un 500W a été choisi comme exemple pour montrer les capacités du moteur.
@@Ematuresco it does, like any ebike, bit it's so light that you don't feel it! As for the noise, it's not disturbing. I find it more than tolerable. Same for Bafang 👍
@@LukeLorusso Cogging only takes place with direct drive motors. It's the effect of drag from magnets in the motor which causes drag while pedaling. Mid-drives have a freewheel or clutch mechanism as do geared hub motors so no "cogging".
Thank you for doing this. I went with the Tongsheng because I wanted very simple: No throttle, no ebrake, etc. Having just 3 wires and a really simple choice menu was the deciding features for me. Also, I did not care about speed. Well I did as I'm a very slow cyclist so just getting some assistance was beneficial. Also, I like the idea of torgue sensing. Didin't see that on the Bafang. Completed the Tongsheng install and like the results so much that I will now convert my mountain bike with a Tongsheng motor. And I save the cost of a battery. Can't ride two bikes at the same time so one battery works just fine.
Great video and comparison. Just to let you know you can buy a programming cable for the BBS O2 for around $10, and you can change all the parameters about it that you mentioned in the video that you wish you could. And it’s very easy to use you just hook it up to a laptop.
Happy to help man! Just check this video before you actually choose, so that you really know pros and cons of the TSDZ2 (from min. 9.35) ua-cam.com/video/qCCpGisS3C8/v-deo.html
Thank you for the comparison - very informative. I am favoring Tongsheng for a couple of reasons, mainly the pedal assist being controlled by the torque sensor giving a more natural experience. Surely this should in theory provide a longer range based on the fact that the power assist is directly proportional to the riders efforts (so uphill for example requires more effort from the rider rather than "ghost pedaling" and letting the motor do all the work thus draining the battery quicker)
Believe me you're not ghost pedaling uphill unless you have the pedal assist at very high levels and the gear selector at low. The beauty of Bafang is you can set the PAS level to whatever suits you best. You want more pedaling effort then set the PAS level low, or want to exercise minimum effort then set it high, or anything in between. You can change the PAS level on the fly.
Hello.. newbie here.. i just cancelled my order of the bafang in place of the Tongsheng because of the torque sensing qualities.. I have a hydraulic brake.. do i really need a brake motor off switch like the Bafang?
@@toetz4491yes and no, with bafang you can program the motor to stop when you stop peddling, with good brakes no issues. I would look up toseven dz01 and 02, they have made a new mid drive thats like bafangs bbshd but it has torque sensor and cadence sensor.
With the programming cable you can program the PAS and throttle to allow full speed regardless of the PAS level. I also have a BBS02 (750 watt) and mine is programmed that way. Unfortunately there is a glitch that makes PAS cut out when you hit the throttle and then the power comes on full blast. That required me to stop pedaling before applying the throttle or risk wheelies. I finally solved the problem by removing the throttle;)
@@LukeLorusso Mine came programmed to reach top speed regardless of assist level. I programmed it for lower amps so I'd get more range from a 6AH battery. Also lowered the % of assist in the lower PAS levels because it started at 30% in PAS level 1 which was unnecessary. Now PAS level 1 gives 10% power which is more than enough for slow moving around pedestrians. If I want 30% I just up the PAS level to 3 (of 9) now.
@@michaelsprinzeles4022 very interesting! question: can you still choose to have 5 customizable levels of assistance instead of 9? Thank you for sharing your experience 💪
@@LukeLorusso Sorry I didn't see your question sooner. Yes, you can still choose the number of assistance levels. Note: if you change the number of levels the settings for level 9 are still the highest, with level 5 being the middle and 1 the lowest (while still getting assistance) so while programming assume the full 9 levels of assist and the motor will make the corresponding adjustments when you choose how many levels you want on the display. For example set all 9 levels while programming then on the display set the number of levels...the motor knows no matter how many levels you select that level 1 will be unchanged but the middle setting, no matter the displayed number, will correspond to level 5 in the programming and the highest setting, no matter the displayed number, will correspond to level 9 in the programming. With 3 levels of assist the display level 2 will be the programmed level 5 and level 3 on the display will be the same as level 9 in the programming. If you choose 5 levels, 1 is still 1, 2 on the display is like 3 in the programming, level 3 on the display is like 5 in the programming, level 4 on the display is like level 7 in programming and level 5 on the display is like 9 in the programming. With the programming cable (and software) you can also change the amount of power in each setting. Hope that's not overwhelming. It's simple once you've done it. Ride on & enjoy;)
I have the thongshen, but I also tried the befang. I prefer the way the thongshen delivers power. It reacts on how much input you give, so changing speeds is easier. It feels more natural. I agree with you that there are things missing like battery usage and the amount of power levels. I think that it isn't a problem for most people, but I would love to have it. I expected a longer range with the Thongshen, but I wasn't surten. I think that this mainly comes because how the power is added. With the befang, the motor works more as you just just pedal and don't ad extra force. I didn't change to the custom firmware but it seems to deliver more power and ad some extra info. I am thinking of changing the firmware, but not in a short time. I like the long range. I hope that thongshen will give you an option to change it. That would be great. Overall, both are good and yes the befang looks better with the display, but I would just look ad what feeling you like the most. Display can be changed and firmware change also ads extras.
I built a mountain bike with a Tongsheng it was great. I bought a bike with a Bafang rear hub motor & cadence sensor. Cadence sensors are dangerous off road , you have no fine control over acceleration or speed like with a torque sensor!!! My damaged hand is still healing, thx Bafang :(
You're actually right: when using cadence sensor motors off-road you need to keep in mind the way it works to avoid weird behaviours. I prefer using the throttle in that case, which is not exactly the point of having a bicycle. Tongsheng will be better in this case
Thanks for the nice review. I have Bafang and I am very disappointed with their assistance implementation, one thing it pushes too hard, but worse - speed is too high. For example mine on L1 assist pushes to 12MPH witch is way too high. And worst thing it is not adjustable. I found that some makers for the same display 680C has settings to set power limit and speed limits for assistance levels, but Bafang decided you do not need that. Terrible decision. Note: if they make it too slow/weak that would be annoying at most, as you can just skip to higher level of assist. But other way around is really terrible - level 0 is not assist and level 1 is already too high/ and there is nothing in between.
@@LukeLorusso I do not really see how it can be customized without tweaking firmware, which leads to loosing warranty. But I would be glad to be mistaken.
Agreed the Bafang factory settings for Power delivery are terrible, however an app called eeebike will allow you to plug into controller and custom tune them. It transforms how the motor behaves
Ciao Luca, video molto.... mooolto interessanti e ben fatti!!! Ti volevo fare una domanda alla quale tu, che li hai provati entrambi potresti rispondermi. A priori sceglierei il primo perché il sensore sulla coppia mi piace di più..., ma il bafang mi .... intriga di più... La domanda è: " se il bafang, impostato su un intervento basso di assistenza, possa sembrare che intervenga sulla coppia." Grazie
Ciao Giovanni! Il sensore di coppia non si può "simulare". Interviene diversamente. Il bafang a basso livello di assistenza fa così: spinge più che può all'inizio e poi ti tronca alla velocità predefinita. Da quel momento è solo gambe! Se il livello di assistenza è medio arriverete più o meno a spegnere con la stessa grinta (ma non proporzionalmente); se spingi meno fa forza il motore, se vai forte tu invece si placa lui. Ad alto livello, praticamente tu fai finta e il motore fa tutto da solo. Col tongsheng tutto ciò non esiste. È tutto proporzionale, sempre. Ma questo significa che per alte velocità devi sudare! Cerca semplicemente di capire per cosa vuoi la bici: esercizio e naturalezza per il tempo libero? tongsheng; spostamenti regolari con poca fatica: bafang
Thanks for this video I'm actually planning to get that display that your u in on the bafang.. You said something at about 7:40 that the clock freezes is it like that all the time? If I remove battery to charge and put back the battery will the clock be correct?
I have the BBs02 and I removed the trigger. It's useless and illegal in our coutnry. If I need to go up to 25-30 it' so easy with pedaling that I don't need the trigger.
Cercavo un confronto fra i due kit e ne ho trovato proprio uno "made in Bari" ottimo....Riconosco Japigia e la strada verso Bariblu...hai mai avuto problemi meccanici o elettronici con i due kit? Quanti km hai fatto rispettivamente?
Ciao, sono quasi 2000Km sul bafang e circa 1000 sul tongsheng. Ad oggi nessun problema elettronico ne meccanico... ma foro spesso visto le strade da battaglia che scelgo! Ora ho scelto altri pneumatici e camere, vediamo se cambia qualcosa
tranquillo, io ho una Decathlon E-ST 100 e in 700 km mi è saltata la catena diverse volte, mi hanno cambiato la bici ma la trasmissione rimane difettosa...con la seconda ho forato e rotto un raggio in meno di 1000 km, e la pinza davanti va a scatti
Hi fellow parisian. I am curious about the type of assistance : for the Tongsheng you state it assists you in pedaling (like a bosch mid motor for instance) and the bafand feels like a motor turns on and push you (like a wheel motor). Did i get that right ?
Oversimplified, it's like that. - The Tongsheng assist you in a "proportional way", multiplying your force by a constant based on the selected assistance level (Bosch-style like you said). - The Bafang does not sense your force: it just counts the number of rounds per time unit of your pedal crank and then apply the amount of power based on the selected assistance level. So it might happen that you "ghost pedal" and the motor do all the job, or the contrary where you struggle to pedal and the motor does not help you much. But you can overcome the second case with the throttle or lowering the gear.
@@sebastienbily2331 yeah the choice is really personal and depends on what you do with the bike. For example I like both of them but in different scenarios :)
@@AirbrushDGart basically nothing happen if you forget that, but the cassette and the chain will feel some stress (you could actually hear that noisy gear change, like a CLACK) if it happens from time to times that's ok but in the long run the risk is to consume the cassette and the chain earlier because of the stress (even brake the chain in the worst case...) but believe me, after you hear that clack a couple of times you will remember it 😅 Another thing I do personally, since I got brake sensors, is to slightly pull the brake lever to disingage the motor, so I can continue to pedal without really braking and also change the gear. It's like pulling a virtual clutch and that's pretty effective!
what kind of reprogramming are you talking about? I assume you're talking about the one that requires a computer to re-flash the motor's firmware... Let me explain what you might have missed here: - minute 1:23 of the video, when I explain that firmware mods are out of scope in this particular video - when you say "requires", that is not precise: yes you can re-program the motor of both systems, and yes it may eventually (if well done) increase your build performance (just like a proper overclock would do for a cpu in a computer) BUT 1) this video is dedicated to first time users, that for 80% of the case don't want to mess with that at the first time 2) those kits actually do not "require" it! it's an interesting topic, and I'll look forward to talk about that in a future video (thank you for the contribution anyways!) but... absolutely not mandatory! moreover, if someone is not an expert flashy-geek like me and probably you, I highly discourage to do it! ...or is there some other kind of reprogramming I am missing?
I do: I've chosen the same for my daily commute bike, same reason as yours! The Bafang bike waits for my holidays, even if in certain condition (very steep climbs or strong wind) may require some workout too 😅
I have a tongsheng on a Merida hardtail mtb. It's awesome. And the community open source firmware is definitely recommended. It's better than any bafang firmware. The open source firmware for tongsheng opens up more power for less battery due to a better algorithm and also many more display options including estimated kms left on battery and peddle power watts vs motor watts etc. Absolutely recommend the tongsheng.
THis actually changes the game, because if true, it solves almost all the deficiencies of the Tongsheng. I was almost favoring the Bafang even without the torque sensor until I saw this comment.
I have a Bafang BBSHD on my 2008 Santa Crur Blur dual suspension; insane power, perhaps too much, but really easy to ride especially if you dont want to work up a sweat. I also have the same motor on my 2020 Catrike tadpole recumbent; I hit 37mph on the flats with just the throttle. Both are enjoyable to ride. And I have Tongsheng TSDZ2 48V on my 2020 Trek Marlin; I upgraded to the 860C display and motor controller with the Open Source Firmware (OSF) V1.1 from eco-cycles...amazing power application as power does not cut off after 80 cadence and just keeps going as your cadence increases to 120. So for myself and my family, we need the exercise so the TSDZ2 is better suited for us. The OSF provides more than enough power at power level 9 (9 of 20), to climb all the hilly terrain without killing us. My buddy who has a Bulls eBike with the Brose motor says my Marlin performs just as well as his Bulls. I take that as a compliment to the OSF upgrade. I am now in the process of converting my 2020 Trek Roscoe with the TSDZ2.
Thanks for sharing! As for now I am in a "transition period" and I cannot dedicate a lot of time investigating in OSF, but I am very interested in it and looking forward to try it as soon as I can
I don't know. The Prize tag on the Bafang in my country costs 70% of a cheap brand new Ebike.... unless you find it dirt cheap somewhere it's just not worth it in my case. I rather give 30% more cash and get everything already build on a new bike. But this is a very good video. Totally illegal if the speed limit of 25 kmh is not used in my country. Well thanks for the good video.
Interesting comparison, I have been wondering which to buy and I'm as torn as I was before watching. Still, v informative, thanks for making the effort.
First off, great, detailed video here. 2 things, I wish Tongsheng produced a 2-3kw version that could run up to a 72v battery. They could really improve sales, because the BBSHD and BBS02 both don't include torque sensing pedal assist. And of course, the second wish would be if Bafang made a new version of the BBS02 and BBSHD with torque sensing added. Cheers.
You couldn't ask for a more accurate comparison between these 2 systems. I've been installing both for about 5 years on recumbent trikes so other than a couple of small power delivery differences, your evaluation is spot on. Another thing to add for many buyers is the difference between solving problems. The Bafang would seem to be the better built of the 2 kits but the Tongsheng is by far the easiest to repair. Both have worldwide resellers of spare parts so you are not locked into proprietary dealers that you have to ship your kit to for repairs.
Any Chinese made ebike motor is easier to repair cos spare parts are easier to get ,compared to Bosch.....Here in France Befang is the most preferred than any other..
@@justincase3230 If you are going to have problems with a motor kit it will likely be internal. The Bafangs are known to have Controller problems & the Tongshengs are known to have spragg clutch & Blue Delrin Gear problems. In my opinion, I would make sure to service either unit with lots of grease on the gears & ride ether unit for a few 100 km rides before setting off on a long journey. Once your kit is broken in & maintained, either kit will provide many years & kms of trouble free service. Just be sure to use your gears as you would without the assist & the motor for an extra push for your convenience. In other words don't let the motor lag by using high gears &/or the throttle to climb your hills - use your gears & leg power too.
Merhaba, ben üç tekerli bisikletim için almak istiyorum, yaşadığım yerde yokuşlar var, arka sepette iki çocuk taşımak istiyorum sizce tongshengmi, bafangmı tercih etmeliyim?
I have had BBSHD BBS01,2 TO B2 and I can say befang is way better than both tosheng and bosch cos spare parts are easier to get Including tosheng compared to bosch. I'm not planning to change anytime soon.....
I have the Bafang BBSO1B that's the 250 watt model which In the UK is the legal limit. I also have the tongsheng 350 watt(naughty naughty lol). Surprisingly the Bafang is more powerful and in my opinion is a better drive, its also more adjustable, if you get the right lead, you can customise all the gearing and many other things, and you can read your battery charge in the LCD screen. I had bad luck with my Tongsheng from the beginning, I had a faulty LCD and it was impossible to set up. It took 4 months and me paying the postage back to china to get it changed, I have two complaints with it. One the charge indicator is rubbish, you can run out of charge and it still shows full, BUT it does go a lot further than the Bafang on a charge. The main dislike I have with it is the torque sensor, The harder you pedal the more assistance the motor gives, So after a long day out( and i'm exhausted) and I have the final Big hill to climb, I still have to pedal hard to get full power to assist me up the hill even on the turbo setting. The bafang just glides up the hill with me giving minimum input. I hardly ever use the Tongsheng, but I love the Bafang which I intend to upgrade to the BBS02B 500 watt even though its illegal in the UK. I have a trailer on order so I can find space in it to carry a spare charged battery to double its range.
Both my TSDZ2 with VLCD5 provide a 6V supply for lights which switches on with the backlght. You don't need a shift sensor because the torque sensor detects reduced pedalling force when you shift, which you should do anyway for the health of your transmission (you can't stop pedalling to shift a derailleur, a problem with the Bafang). The chain-stay clamp should be more than enough to hold the motor steady with the single lock-ring. You can set the torque/assistance ratio so the motor applies more power with less pedal force, making the motor kick in sooner/harder. I don't know why you'd need more than four assist levels - .does it really need that much extra fine-tuning?. Throttle isn't legal (beyond 6 km/h) in the UK so no problem there. I will probably build a Bafang mid-drive bike at some point, but I'm currently putting together a hub motor trike, so that will be next year.
Merhaba, ben üç tekerli bisikletim için almak istiyorum, yaşadığım yerde yokuşlar var, arka sepette iki çocuk taşımak istiyorum sizce tongshengmi, bafangmı tercih etmeliyim?
I bought and fitted a Tongsheng 500w and 16ah 48volt battery. I've just done a 25km ride on a fairly hilly route, mostly in tour mode and the depletion of the battery indicated that I may be good for 100km range, it's still over 50v. Not bad for a pensioner on an old(ish) Decathlon Triban 500, I'm very happy with my new 'bionic legs'...
Hi Alex! You made the most energy efficient choice 😃 I have a similar battery for my 750W Bafang and I can go really far with that (didn't measure it yet though since I live in high ground, with a lot of climbs and descents, so the consumption is different) With a 500W Tongsheng kit you cut the consumption, getting the most out of your bike! Enjoy your ride 🚴
I have a tongsheng and do 60-70 miles a day. I have two 14ah batteries and I usually get 35-40 miles from 1 battery with some charge to spare. I love the simplicity of the tongsheng. There is only one cable going to the cockpit
Pardon me, it's 13ah, and I'm getting 80km per charge (200km so far), I try and use minimum assist (Eco) as I'm trying to improve my fitness, but it's normally quite hilly on my routes. I'm pleased with that.
I have just undergone a similar eBike journey and have both these and a rear hub. I have come to very similar conclusions about the two mid motors. My preference for feeling, as you say, bionic, is the TSDZ2 but I live in a very hilly area and the Bafang BBS01B (250W) handles the hills better in my opinion. Because the Bafang jkust gives what you ask of it it is easier on me in steep terrain. Everrywhere else I prefer the TSDZ2 as it just feels more natural. If I could run a 500w motor it would be the TSDZ all the way although the Bafang has a better reliability record. I have the gear sensor on the Bafang and I find it makes little difference. As you suggest I just stop pedalling momentarily on changes. The TSDZ seems less snatchy when changing, probably as a result of the torque sensor, which I love. There you are more subjective opinion for you to chew over. I should finally add that the TSDZ2 sips battery power in comparison. This is perhaps due the torque sensing again as it gives you a band of assistence for each of it's four levels where the Bafang is either on or off at any one level.
I'm on the fence with 2 conversion kits 3.batteries I wired up for longer distance more drive time for scooter to see motor work and.determine direction sprocket wants to spin motor where to put.2 twelve volt lithium attach remotely and secure motor on bycicle.what did I get into fasten midrivelooks better than backtire attach ALTHOUGH bike I wanted motor on is one piece pedal crank not 3piece ????
I have a BBS02b on my retrofit. I dislike the onset of power pedaling doesn't feel natural. The Tongsheng's torque sensing sounds nice, but the downsides look numerous. I've been considering a CYC Stealth motor, but it's too expensive and there are too many quality-control issues for me.
I totally agree with you man... In the future I will share some settings for the BBS02B via the programming tool that should make it a little bit more confortable Maybe it will help you too
I'd go for the Tongsheng if only for the torque sensor. While rotation sensors 'can' work, I'd want the motor output to scale with the force I have to apply into the bike. Feels more natural, that way, and is why I prefer mid-drive motors in general.
2022 here. Just learned about Bafang a week ago. Now about Tongsheng. Thanks, I will take the latter. I had 250W hubmotors. Around the hills I often have to face 8-9 km/h sections. A 5OOW Tongsheng will boost it up enough. I don't want to fly. You just talked me out of Bafang :) +++ I just found a page, they sell it with stickers, you can put on the motor, saying 250W. Clever!
Setting the speed limit (and the pre-set on/off) is for Legal reasons in some places. If an EBike can go over a certain speed in my city, it is classified as a motorcycle and you need to register it and get a special license. To avoid this, you can prove to a police that you are using a speed limiter
Thanks for the info, i have installed a bbs02b 36v 500wat middrive motor 48T chain wheel front and 13/34 T cassette rear it have a lots power like a horse hi hi ferry ferry nice, the bike is a Giant expedition expert series. I draw a helmed course mij hear is not enough to protect the head.
Probably the best ebike mid-drive comparison video I’ve seen. In the uk (& most of Europe) the ebike speed limit is 25kph (16mph) But I don’t understand why the motor is limited to 250W
I have the tsdz2 750w fitted to a full suspension bike, biggest problem is the cadence which is about 85 with a full charge and about 70 as the battery goes down. With the 42t chain ring you will get about 25mph pedaling as hard as you can and after that you are fighting against the motor. Crank arms are weak and bend at slightest knock, the chain ring has play and wobbles, with a low battery the cadence is so bad you will be quite passed after a while
Hello Luke, thank you for this useful vid! Can you answer to me, with which motor is possible to ride using less cardial work? I've got very serious heart failure, that means im able to walk mid-speed continously, but riding a normal bike is too much. I tried it, i ran out of power and oxygen after 2 km. So as I understood well the Bafang set would be better for me? Thank you!
you got it right man: the Bafang kit is the right one for you! the 500W at 48V motor will allow you to install bigger batteries, and if you buy a 48V 17Ah one you'll be set. in case you have a lot of steep climbs on your way, you can think about the 750W version :)
Hi! First of all, see this: ua-cam.com/video/T7ve958hJXE/v-deo.html based on the info that I've shown, and considering the same 500W version for both motors, probably the Bafang because it allows you to efficiently use the throttle when you need it; it also provide more torque (100Nm)... unless you are looking for an "only pedals" experience, in that case the Tongsheng pedaling system is more realistic, but you will make a bit more of workout (80Nm). I would probably try something more powerful that 500W in this case.
Bbshd, 160nm of torque, i have 2, 48v 1000w, or 52v 1500, done 2k miles and it goes so good, just make sure to get these things, 1st motor sator has the new rotor, have a quick link chain, 8-9speed depending in chain ring, gear sensor, use a push down thumb throttle avoid twist, a bafang programme cable this enhances the speed and reaction of settings like how strong the thumb throttle works, make sure the wheel rims are double walled for extra weight and force, have a decent capacity battery over 15ah, 48v has bigger range of top capacity but 52v gives more power and 20ah 52v are strong and gd range, don't use throttle on hill climbs with bafang its stupid, i mean 100nm of torque if ur in right gear it will fly up lol
Hey there! In reality none of them is noisy, the very little noise you got at high speed is covered by the wind Judge by yourself: ua-cam.com/video/26yWMV298xI/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/wMJjYpF0OUg/v-deo.html
I'm waiting for my tongsheng tsdz2 to arrive. I decided to go for the tsdz2 over the bafang because of the positive feedback of the torque sensor, if it's as good as the Yamaha on my haibike, I'll be most pleased. My next one will either be bafang 1000w or the cycx1.
I went for the tsdz2 and I am very happy with it. The Befang that I tried was also very good, but I prefer the torksensor. My next motor will be again with torksensor.
@@pablonoguerales1425 Hi, I'm really happy with the motor. It comes very close to the Yamaha pw-se on my haibike in terms of responsiveness and performance, the quality of the motor however is not great, but replacement parts are readily available and fairly cheap. If you're thinking of getting one you won't be disappointed.
@@wattyler5591 I'm wondering how to mount a drive straight up in between the two frame tubes seems silly to hang the motor in the forward position to also use as a skid plate?
Torque sensing works better on a recumbent than a traditional bike. The TS being far, far lighter, make handling a bent a lot easier. TS has secondary attachment I am not sure why he didn't use it, but it keeps the motor from coming loose like happens with the Bafang. Love these four videos, but sadly, he doesn't know what he should about setting options like the throttle and alternative e displays.
@@MHH3180 I purchased the TSDZ2 and I’m installing it now on my Catrike Road. Nicely built unit it weighs 8lbs 8oz. So far the install has been a snap. Waiting on the battery delivery and some extra mounts for the electronics from T-Cycle. The unit came from Eco Cycles. I would recommend them highly.
Very nice video thank you for all the input on the Bafang motor I am considering to purchase one to convert my MTB and I am studding all the little features and advantages that you can get from each brand.
Bbshd is the best of the bafang bunch, its easy to fit, only work your do is removing bottom bracket, re-feeding gear cable, removing front derailleur and its gear shifter, just make sure ur wheel rims are double walled.
I recently learned all Tongshen mid Drive kit use the same exact motor the only thing that's different is the firmware what you can change with the USB interface that you hook to your computer which I'm sure isn't something they want all potential buyers to know about but that's not my concern so I say modify the firmware overvolt it and give it hell 😊😅😂
Great comparison, i have 2 ebikes, one new fitness with tongsheng 36v 350 Without a throtle and 18-20kg weight depending on the size of the battery and one 20yr Steel 26in... 30kg with a heavy brusless 36v 500w hub back wheel. Tottaly different, one is a helpful normal bike to have a workout (6000km in one year!) and the "tank" as a commutter and more like a moped. The same battery in the tongsheng in eco-1 mode and a little in tour-2 Mode lasts more than double than the other with assist level 1 (80-100w). Greetings from Greece.
Which is the best? The Bafang is a little more expensive and even so by my opinion slightly better then the Tonshang but all motors have there strengths and weaknesses, the Bafang strength is it is quieter and smoother and hear it encounters less problems and parts are easier to come by, it weaknesses is price its a little more then the Tonshang and the fittings. The biggest problem I have had with the Bafang the securing nut coming lose and motor lowering so could do with a more secure fastening, the Tongshang as a fixing bolt that secures the motor to the frame but where that fits I have a stand fixing there. My advice if you do fit a Bafang motor you can secure it to the frame by fitting the motor with jubilee clips, a jubilee clip aroung the motor then a smaller one through the firs clip securing it to the frame. Ideal sizes 120mm to 140 mm for the motor and 50mm to 70mm for the frame and this will give a stronger fitting to the motor to frame and stop the risk of your motor coming lose. I hope this helps as I find the Bafang slightly better and worth the extra cost and work. Mike
When a BBS0*-***W is tuned in software and mode is set to "current" it works like a charm. I tried the TDSZ2 but did not like the torque system, the current mode Bafang was more suited for me also because it has a throttle.
The amp setting has no effect - it’s 18A hardcoded limit The tsdz2 really shines after flashing to the custom firmware - you get a voltage read on boot with it - plus you can set assist levels etc
Bonjour, merci pour votre vidéo très informative. D'après ce que j'ai compris (excusez moi, je suis novice sur les ebike) Tongsheng propose un système de pedal assist avec un torque qui semble être performant (comparé au système présent sur Bosch y-a-t-il une grosse différence?), alors que la marque Bafang ne dispose pas de cette technologie ou tu moins pas nativement sur leur kit ? Ou est-ce possible d'ajouter cette option via un kit spécial Bafang ? Merci de votre aide.
Bonjour et merci à vous ! Depuis ce que j'ai pu comprendre, Bafang ne produit pas de moteurs mid-drive avec détection de couple. Mais ça ne veut pas dire que ce soit moins fort... au contraire, il nous pousse plus fort pour plus de temps (résultat du fait que le moteur sait qu'on pousse avec lui, mais il ne sait pas avec combien de force). Par contre avec moteur Tongsheng (et depuis ce que j'ai lu ici: www.quora.com/What-is-the-working-principle-of-the-torque-sensor-of-a-Bosch-electric-bike-motor c'est pareil pour moteurs Bosch), étant que le moteur est fourni de détection de couple, il produira une force proportionnelle à la nôtre, du coup il faudra faire de l’effort pour faire que le moteur s’engageât à fond! Ça reproduit une sensation de pédaler plus naturellement, nous permettons de gagner en terme de durée de la batterie, bien évidemment, et aussi de faire un peu de sport 👍 C’est uniquement questions de ce qu'on veut depuis nôtre velo : soit-il de nous remplacer ou de jouer avec nous
@@LukeLorusso merci, c'est exactement ce que je veux; faire aussi un peu de sport et avoir la sensation de pédaler. Si jamais je suis trop fatigué, je pourrai toujours enclencher le Throttle... c'est super!!!
Complimenti molto esaustivo,io vorrei trasformare una delle mie due mtb per andarci al lavoro ma anche per divertirmi,dopo i tuoi video sarei orientato su un tongsheng da 500 o 750 devo fare 40 km e ci sono parecchie salite.l unico dubbio che ho e che le mie bici sono full e nel carro posteriore non c e quel trapezietto dove andrebbe il cavlletto cioè quello in cui tu fissavi con una staffa il motore per nn farlo muovere,bastera solo stringerlo li sul movimento centrale secondo te prima che faccio la spesa?
You can order a USB Cable that you can plug on your phone or computer to fully reprogram the controller including the max amps and each levels individually or change levels from speed limit to current limit on the Bafang
The TSDZ2 is far from 80 Nm, I have a Bosch Gen I 50 Nm and it's more powerful than the TSDZ2. Noticeable on steep hills. The Bosch will climb 16-20% easier than the TSDZ2 and the Bosch has more power at a slower Cadence. The only issue with the Bosch is the 27 Km/hr cut off. On level ground and moderate hills the TSDZ2 will be faster but on the really steep stuff the Bosch wins and it's also far more efficient hardly even getting luke warm were as the TSDZ2 will be quite hot. The 80nm rating of the TSDZ2 is complete nonsense.
I guess it seems nonsense just because on its stock firmware a lot of its potential is basically locked... you find out its real force after you unlock it with a custom firmware. I agree with you about not being fair
@@LukeLorusso I highly doubt I will unlock 30-40 nm with the modded firmware. It might be worth giving it a shot but I doubt it will take the heat. Out of the box though the 80 Nm rating is really not true, more like 40 Nm.
@@LukeLorusso I might give it a try, I don't have a lot of faith with the heat generated. Might be worth a shot before I sell the motor or whole bike lol.
A shift sensor is a needed on a torque sensing system as when you shift you should be letting off of the power anyway and that will instantly cut power through the system because it is a more natural for you. The cadence drives already more jerky, power meaning a shift sensor is necessary.
I guess it all depends on your personal circumstances, if like me with COPD I prefer the Bafang BBS02 which I used daily to commute with minimal effort over 10 miles each way to work and back for over 2 years.
I hope your well man, I have family with COPD and it's no joke I know! It breaks my heart when I see family struggling to get a breath just sitting on the sofa.
Ciao Luke, grazie per i tuoi video, davvero molto interessanti e diversi da quanto si trova normalmente nel web ! Attualmente sono indeciso su come equipaggiare una cargo per trasporto bambini. Siccome dove abito ci sono anche strade con pendenze importanti sarei tentato dalla maggior coppia del Bafang. Mi frena l'idea che l'assistenza sia meno facilmente dosabile rispetto al Tongsheng, che é più facile da installare ed é meno aggressivo con catena e cambio (con Bafang sembrerebbe sia preferibile installare il sensore di cambiata per una minore usura). Hai mai fatto delle prove di salita su pendenze importanti ? Ti ringrazio!
Ciao Marco, sono molte domande provo a sintetizzare una risposta. Cargo bike? L'ho sempre sognata! Io installerei direttamente un Bafang e non considererei un Tongsheng. È vero che avrai più stress sulla catena, ma dovrai anche far fronte ad un peso complessivo più importante! Usa catene di qualità, equipaggia almeno un 500W (batteria da 36V almeno da 17Ah, se puoi anche un 48V che ti permette di raggiungere capacità anche maggiori fino a 1000Wh). Io salgo molto spesso dei ponti con il Bafang e se la cava egregiamente, chiaramente devo aiutarlo con le gambe in quella situazione, ma sono molto soddisfatto delle prestazioni! Io però sono da solo, se devi anche caricare dei bambini io sceglierei un 750W per essere tranquillo. È il peso che lo richiede
Hi, great details on your video. I want to convert my Marin from rear hub to mid drive 500W, but it seems that the bottom bracket set is seized and rusted into place, so the only option is to cut off with a hacksaw or angle grinder flush with the frame, then hammer or drill out the bottom bracket. How you describe the locking ring for the motor is important to me - do you think If I have no threads remaining in the bike frame then I can still make the conversion, because it slots through and tightens to its self? The purpose of the mid drive upgrade is for me to load up the bike with camping equipment and go in the countryside, which has lots of hills where I live in South West England
Overall not a bad comparison. Though I am a speed type of guy and anything less than a BBSHD is just not for me but I did enjoy the video. I am riding around on the surron X bike right now and that's my latest project upgrading it and making it faster overall. Thanks and good luck to you.
Ciao Luca, video molto interessante (così come gli altri tuoi che ho visto). La scorsa settimana ho provato una ebike a noleggio (KTM con motore Bosch) e mi ha entusiasmato cosi mi sono messo alla ricerca di opzioni simili ma più abbordabili. Non mi interessa tanto di realizzare un motorino elettrico da città quanto di avere una bici da trekking per passeggiate su strade di campagna e montagna che mi dia un "aiutino" per le salite più lunghe e ripide (per intendersi quelle in cui con la MTB è necessario usare la moltiplica piccola e fare girare le gambe come un frullatore). Per il resto, in piano, non ho problemi a pedalare anche per 40-50 km senza aiuto. In base ai tuoi video e all'idea che mi sono fatto, per un utilizzo del genere sarebbe meglio aver il torque sensor e quindi sarebbe preferibile il Tongsheng. Tu cosa mi consigli?
Ciao Francesco e grazie per il tuo interessamento. Hai fatto centro. Se l'esperienza che vuoi riprodurre è quella della pedalata assistita "progressiva", il tongsheng è il motore che fa per te. Puoi anche non montare l'acceleratore (in effetti non é gran che utile). Ti consiglio di scegliere la versione da almeno 500W per equiparare (anche superare un pelino) le prestazioni dei motori KTM (superiori rispetto al fatto che il telaio della bici è stato disegnato intorno al motore). Il consiglio è, ove possibile, di farti accompagnare nell'installazione del motore da un meccanico di biciclette! Avrà sicusamente l'esperienza e gli strumenti giusti! Per la batteria puoi fare da solo. Se puoi, spendi sulla batteria: non te ne pentirai!
@@LukeLorusso Ciao Luke, grazie tantissimo per i tuoi video, li ho visti e rivisti e mi hai aiutato a capire tante cose. Mi inserisco in questa conversazione perchè anch'io come molti sogno di andare a fare lunghi giri su strade (e sentieri) collinari e di montagna con la mia MTB. Opterei dunque per motore Tongsheng TSDZ2 da 750W. Sono indeciso però sulla capacità della batteria: 48V sì ma quanti Ah? 17? 20 o più? Vorrei godere di grande autonomia e, come consigli tu, non voglio risparmiare su questo importante elemento dell'e-bike. Mi consiglieresti inoltre un sito dove acquistare un prodotto valido senza dover attendere 2 o 3 mesi e con buon rapporto qualità/prezzo? Per ultimo, la mia MTB ha i freni idraulici, questo rappresenta un problema? Grazie anticipatamente per la tua disponibilità e ancora complimenti per i tuoi tutorial! Roberto Della Vecchia
Sure, you don't need the throttle. But still some viewer might be interested in comparing them :) About the shift sensor I agree with you, but about brake sensor... even if it's a torque sensing system, you still need it See this ua-cam.com/video/KZrGvg4_KH0/v-deo.html to understand why
@@LukeLorusso well, I am on my fourth dozen and never a complaint. Torque sensing still requires some cadence. Yes, you could bypass stock programming for quicker response, but you would stop pedaling and hit the brake so there would be no incident. Now, if you are using a throttle and bypass the minimum speed for use, you could have a problem.
@@kevinshort3943 the throttle is there exactly for that reason. Since a mid-drive motor is a generic-purpose motor, you could eventually build a motorcycle, than go to the motorization office, follow the legal steps and legalize your diy motorcycle with a licenseplate and all! That's absolutely possible and that's the reason why the throttle is present
@@kevinshort3943 By your logic, why put an electric motor on a bicycle? It's BECAUSE WE WANT IT TO BE DIFFERENT. Throttle gives you the option to do what you want with it. You can just cruise around on electric power.
Is there any chance that any of the auxiliaries used for Bafang kits also work with Tongsheng? I converted my bike with a Bafang BBS02, but would like to try a Tongsheng. Do I have to change everything? The most difficult part is my magnetic brake sensors that are epoxy glued to the handles. 😄. The most expensive is of course the battery.
[IT] Il limite massimo di potenza nominale per le bici elettriche in Italia è di 250W. Anche limitando la velocità a 25Km/h, una bicicletta che sviluppi una potenza nominale maggiore di 250W (anche 500W) non si può usare sulle strade pubbliche Italiane. Chi lo fa si assume la responsabilità delle proprie azioni (e contravvenzioni).
Questo video è da intendersi a solo scopo dimostrativo e NON è da intendersi come esempio da imitare. Poichè è destinato ad un audience più ampio che l'Europa, è stato scelto un 500W come esempio per mostrare le capacità del motore.
---
[FR] La puissance nominale maximale autorisée pour les vélos électriques en France est de 250W. Même si la vitesse est limitée à 25 km/h, un vélo qui développe une puissance nominale supérieure à 250W (même 500W) ne peut pas être utilisé sur la voie publique français. Ceux qui le font s'assument la responsabilité de leurs actions (et amendes).
Cette vidéo est finalisé uniquement à la démonstration et n'est PAS à un exemple à imiter. Comme il est destiné à un public plus large que l'Europe, un 500W a été choisi comme exemple pour montrer les capacités du moteur.
Velocita crapacita. They may as well say take all the 180horses of the car motor, and leave only 10. Doesn't mean anything
does the Tongsheng have cogging ?
@@Ematuresco it does, like any ebike, bit it's so light that you don't feel it!
As for the noise, it's not disturbing. I find it more than tolerable.
Same for Bafang 👍
You could compare the so called "Puma" motor then you'll have all three steep-incline motors that are on the market, tested.
@@LukeLorusso Cogging only takes place with direct drive motors. It's the effect of drag from magnets in the motor which causes drag while pedaling. Mid-drives have a freewheel or clutch mechanism as do geared hub motors so no "cogging".
Thank you for doing this. I went with the Tongsheng because I wanted very simple: No throttle, no ebrake, etc. Having just 3 wires and a really simple choice menu was the deciding features for me. Also, I did not care about speed. Well I did as I'm a very slow cyclist so just getting some assistance was beneficial. Also, I like the idea of torgue sensing. Didin't see that on the Bafang. Completed the Tongsheng install and like the results so much that I will now convert my mountain bike with a Tongsheng motor. And I save the cost of a battery. Can't ride two bikes at the same time so one battery works just fine.
I got the Bafang 750w and love it so far I use it for the hill where I live I am 73 yeara old
I have the BBS02 and have no complaints thus far. Thank you for your observations.
Great video and comparison. Just to let you know you can buy a programming cable for the BBS O2 for around $10, and you can change all the parameters about it that you mentioned in the video that you wish you could. And it’s very easy to use you just hook it up to a laptop.
Grazie mille! Such a comprehensive comparison.
That pedaling assist really was thing what I was looking. I don’t like “ghost pedaling” so tsdz2 is my way to go. Thanks for good video.
Happy to help man!
Just check this video before you actually choose, so that you really know pros and cons of the TSDZ2 (from min. 9.35) ua-cam.com/video/qCCpGisS3C8/v-deo.html
Thank you for the comparison - very informative. I am favoring Tongsheng for a couple of reasons, mainly the pedal assist being controlled by the torque sensor giving a more natural experience. Surely this should in theory provide a longer range based on the fact that the power assist is directly proportional to the riders efforts (so uphill for example requires more effort from the rider rather than "ghost pedaling" and letting the motor do all the work thus draining the battery quicker)
Yip.
Hi! Now there's a video about this :)
check it out -> ua-cam.com/video/z5kKbTevIZ8/v-deo.html
Believe me you're not ghost pedaling uphill unless you have the pedal assist at very high levels and the gear selector at low. The beauty of Bafang is you can set the PAS level to whatever suits you best. You want more pedaling effort then set the PAS level low, or want to exercise minimum effort then set it high, or anything in between. You can change the PAS level on the fly.
Hello.. newbie here.. i just cancelled my order of the bafang in place of the Tongsheng because of the torque sensing qualities.. I have a hydraulic brake.. do i really need a brake motor off switch like the Bafang?
@@toetz4491yes and no, with bafang you can program the motor to stop when you stop peddling, with good brakes no issues. I would look up toseven dz01 and 02, they have made a new mid drive thats like bafangs bbshd but it has torque sensor and cadence sensor.
you don't need brake cut off or a gear sensor for the tsdz2 and you can get built in for the lights for the tsdz2
Super duper useful. THANK YOU.
super helpful thanks
With the programming cable you can program the PAS and throttle to allow full speed regardless of the PAS level. I also have a BBS02 (750 watt) and mine is programmed that way. Unfortunately there is a glitch that makes PAS cut out when you hit the throttle and then the power comes on full blast. That required me to stop pedaling before applying the throttle or risk wheelies. I finally solved the problem by removing the throttle;)
hope to make some programming myself too! 🤞
@@LukeLorusso Mine came programmed to reach top speed regardless of assist level. I programmed it for lower amps so I'd get more range from a 6AH battery. Also lowered the % of assist in the lower PAS levels because it started at 30% in PAS level 1 which was unnecessary. Now PAS level 1 gives 10% power which is more than enough for slow moving around pedestrians. If I want 30% I just up the PAS level to 3 (of 9) now.
@@michaelsprinzeles4022 very interesting! question: can you still choose to have 5 customizable levels of assistance instead of 9?
Thank you for sharing your experience 💪
@@LukeLorusso Sorry I didn't see your question sooner. Yes, you can still choose the number of assistance levels. Note: if you change the number of levels the settings for level 9 are still the highest, with level 5 being the middle and 1 the lowest (while still getting assistance) so while programming assume the full 9 levels of assist and the motor will make the corresponding adjustments when you choose how many levels you want on the display. For example set all 9 levels while programming then on the display set the number of levels...the motor knows no matter how many levels you select that level 1 will be unchanged but the middle setting, no matter the displayed number, will correspond to level 5 in the programming and the highest setting, no matter the displayed number, will correspond to level 9 in the programming. With 3 levels of assist the display level 2 will be the programmed level 5 and level 3 on the display will be the same as level 9 in the programming. If you choose 5 levels, 1 is still 1, 2 on the display is like 3 in the programming, level 3 on the display is like 5 in the programming, level 4 on the display is like level 7 in programming and level 5 on the display is like 9 in the programming. With the programming cable (and software) you can also change the amount of power in each setting. Hope that's not overwhelming. It's simple once you've done it.
Ride on & enjoy;)
@@michaelsprinzeles4022 fully understood, was the doubt I had, so hard to articulate but you answered straight! 👌 thanks man
Very good Video. Thank You.
Great video. Thank you
Great video Thanks!
Excellent review thanks for uploading I already have a Bafang bbshd and was going to get a tongsheng but I don't like the display
You can get several different ones for the Tongsheng (at least 4 that I know of)
I have the thongshen, but I also tried the befang. I prefer the way the thongshen delivers power. It reacts on how much input you give, so changing speeds is easier. It feels more natural.
I agree with you that there are things missing like battery usage and the amount of power levels. I think that it isn't a problem for most people, but I would love to have it.
I expected a longer range with the Thongshen, but I wasn't surten. I think that this mainly comes because how the power is added. With the befang, the motor works more as you just just pedal and don't ad extra force.
I didn't change to the custom firmware but it seems to deliver more power and ad some extra info.
I am thinking of changing the firmware, but not in a short time. I like the long range.
I hope that thongshen will give you an option to change it. That would be great.
Overall, both are good and yes the befang looks better with the display, but I would just look ad what feeling you like the most. Display can be changed and firmware change also ads extras.
I built a mountain bike with a Tongsheng it was great. I bought a bike with a Bafang rear hub motor & cadence sensor. Cadence sensors are dangerous off road , you have no fine control over acceleration or speed like with a torque sensor!!! My damaged hand is still healing, thx Bafang :(
You're actually right: when using cadence sensor motors off-road you need to keep in mind the way it works to avoid weird behaviours. I prefer using the throttle in that case, which is not exactly the point of having a bicycle.
Tongsheng will be better in this case
Thanks for the nice review. I have Bafang and I am very disappointed with their assistance implementation, one thing it pushes too hard, but worse - speed is too high. For example mine on L1 assist pushes to 12MPH witch is way too high. And worst thing it is not adjustable. I found that some makers for the same display 680C has settings to set power limit and speed limits for assistance levels, but Bafang decided you do not need that. Terrible decision.
Note: if they make it too slow/weak that would be annoying at most, as you can just skip to higher level of assist. But other way around is really terrible - level 0 is not assist and level 1 is already too high/ and there is nothing in between.
all of that can be customizable! stay tuned cause one of my future videos would be about how to make it "less strong"
@@LukeLorusso I do not really see how it can be customized without tweaking firmware, which leads to loosing warranty. But I would be glad to be mistaken.
Agreed the Bafang factory settings for Power delivery are terrible, however an app called eeebike will allow you to plug into controller and custom tune them. It transforms how the motor behaves
Ciao Luca, video molto.... mooolto interessanti e ben fatti!!! Ti volevo fare una domanda alla quale tu, che li hai provati entrambi potresti rispondermi. A priori sceglierei il primo perché il sensore sulla coppia mi piace di più..., ma il bafang mi .... intriga di più... La domanda è: " se il bafang, impostato su un intervento basso di assistenza, possa sembrare che intervenga sulla coppia." Grazie
Ciao Giovanni! Il sensore di coppia non si può "simulare". Interviene diversamente.
Il bafang a basso livello di assistenza fa così: spinge più che può all'inizio e poi ti tronca alla velocità predefinita. Da quel momento è solo gambe! Se il livello di assistenza è medio arriverete più o meno a spegnere con la stessa grinta (ma non proporzionalmente); se spingi meno fa forza il motore, se vai forte tu invece si placa lui. Ad alto livello, praticamente tu fai finta e il motore fa tutto da solo.
Col tongsheng tutto ciò non esiste. È tutto proporzionale, sempre. Ma questo significa che per alte velocità devi sudare!
Cerca semplicemente di capire per cosa vuoi la bici: esercizio e naturalezza per il tempo libero? tongsheng; spostamenti regolari con poca fatica: bafang
I want the Bafang but I really don't know what to choose.
maybe this one will clear your mind ua-cam.com/video/0j5WWCyUqoI/v-deo.htmlsi=zNWXt_NQi8OV7j0- 🤞
Thanks for this video I'm actually planning to get that display that your u in on the bafang.. You said something at about 7:40 that the clock freezes is it like that all the time? If I remove battery to charge and put back the battery will the clock be correct?
I have the BBs02 and I removed the trigger. It's useless and illegal in our coutnry. If I need to go up to 25-30 it' so easy with pedaling that I don't need the trigger.
Cercavo un confronto fra i due kit e ne ho trovato proprio uno "made in Bari" ottimo....Riconosco Japigia e la strada verso Bariblu...hai mai avuto problemi meccanici o elettronici con i due kit? Quanti km hai fatto rispettivamente?
Ciao, sono quasi 2000Km sul bafang e circa 1000 sul tongsheng. Ad oggi nessun problema elettronico ne meccanico... ma foro spesso visto le strade da battaglia che scelgo!
Ora ho scelto altri pneumatici e camere, vediamo se cambia qualcosa
tranquillo, io ho una Decathlon E-ST 100 e in 700 km mi è saltata la catena diverse volte, mi hanno cambiato la bici ma la trasmissione rimane difettosa...con la seconda ho forato e rotto un raggio in meno di 1000 km, e la pinza davanti va a scatti
@@Antanix 😂 allora col motore dormirai sogni tranquilli!
Does anyone know if the open source firmware for the tsdz2 fixes the throttle?
"no delay" is a lie. it has 90 degree delay. which is much better than cadence sensing
Hi fellow parisian. I am curious about the type of assistance : for the Tongsheng you state it assists you in pedaling (like a bosch mid motor for instance) and the bafand feels like a motor turns on and push you (like a wheel motor). Did i get that right ?
Oversimplified, it's like that.
- The Tongsheng assist you in a "proportional way", multiplying your force by a constant based on the selected assistance level (Bosch-style like you said).
- The Bafang does not sense your force: it just counts the number of rounds per time unit of your pedal crank and then apply the amount of power based on the selected assistance level.
So it might happen that you "ghost pedal" and the motor do all the job, or the contrary where you struggle to pedal and the motor does not help you much. But you can overcome the second case with the throttle or lowering the gear.
@@LukeLorusso Thanks, so tongdsheng all the way for me, always hated the motorbike feeling.
@@sebastienbily2331 yeah the choice is really personal and depends on what you do with the bike. For example I like both of them but in different scenarios :)
Can you use bafang without gear shifter installed, by just freezing the legs when shifting the gears??
yes man, as said in the video
@@LukeLorusso that's good to know but how effective is that and what happens if u forget to freeze your legs while gear shifting?
@@AirbrushDGart basically nothing happen if you forget that, but the cassette and the chain will feel some stress (you could actually hear that noisy gear change, like a CLACK)
if it happens from time to times that's ok but in the long run the risk is to consume the cassette and the chain earlier because of the stress (even brake the chain in the worst case...)
but believe me, after you hear that clack a couple of times you will remember it 😅
Another thing I do personally, since I got brake sensors, is to slightly pull the brake lever to disingage the motor, so I can continue to pedal without really braking and also change the gear. It's like pulling a virtual clutch and that's pretty effective!
@@LukeLorusso aha ok so it's like setting the motor in nutural/manual when you break and the you can shift the gear.
how much km does with throtle only ?
ua-cam.com/video/SVeSr5Ea_nw/v-deo.html
Tongsheng coming soon...
Any bafang conversion requires a reprogramming of the motor.
Obviously you didn't do that.
what kind of reprogramming are you talking about? I assume you're talking about the one that requires a computer to re-flash the motor's firmware... Let me explain what you might have missed here:
- minute 1:23 of the video, when I explain that firmware mods are out of scope in this particular video
- when you say "requires", that is not precise: yes you can re-program the motor of both systems, and yes it may eventually (if well done) increase your build performance (just like a proper overclock would do for a cpu in a computer)
BUT
1) this video is dedicated to first time users, that for 80% of the case don't want to mess with that at the first time
2) those kits actually do not "require" it! it's an interesting topic, and I'll look forward to talk about that in a future video (thank you for the contribution anyways!) but... absolutely not mandatory! moreover, if someone is not an expert flashy-geek like me and probably you, I highly discourage to do it!
...or is there some other kind of reprogramming I am missing?
It is an out of the box comparison, no mods.
Planning to get Tongshen because I think it encourages me to get some workout and exercise with the bike more than the bafang. Do you guys agree?
I do: I've chosen the same for my daily commute bike, same reason as yours! The Bafang bike waits for my holidays, even if in certain condition (very steep climbs or strong wind) may require some workout too 😅
Agreed
I have a tongsheng on a Merida hardtail mtb.
It's awesome. And the community open source firmware is definitely recommended. It's better than any bafang firmware. The open source firmware for tongsheng opens up more power for less battery due to a better algorithm and also many more display options including estimated kms left on battery and peddle power watts vs motor watts etc.
Absolutely recommend the tongsheng.
Hi! I've read that too. In fact, if you are into firmware mods, tongsheng motors are the way to go!
I'm actually planning to make a video on this 😁
@@LukeLorusso can't wait for your video of osf
How difficult is the flashing process? Where did you learn how to do it?
THis actually changes the game, because if true, it solves almost all the deficiencies of the Tongsheng. I was almost favoring the Bafang even without the torque sensor until I saw this comment.
I have a Bafang BBSHD on my 2008 Santa Crur Blur dual suspension; insane power, perhaps too much, but really easy to ride especially if you dont want to work up a sweat. I also have the same motor on my 2020 Catrike tadpole recumbent; I hit 37mph on the flats with just the throttle. Both are enjoyable to ride. And I have Tongsheng TSDZ2 48V on my 2020 Trek Marlin; I upgraded to the 860C display and motor controller with the Open Source Firmware (OSF) V1.1 from eco-cycles...amazing power application as power does not cut off after 80 cadence and just keeps going as your cadence increases to 120. So for myself and my family, we need the exercise so the TSDZ2 is better suited for us. The OSF provides more than enough power at power level 9 (9 of 20), to climb all the hilly terrain without killing us. My buddy who has a Bulls eBike with the Brose motor says my Marlin performs just as well as his Bulls. I take that as a compliment to the OSF upgrade. I am now in the process of converting my 2020 Trek Roscoe with the TSDZ2.
Thanks for sharing!
As for now I am in a "transition period" and I cannot dedicate a lot of time investigating in OSF, but I am very interested in it and looking forward to try it as soon as I can
Hey, do you have any heating problems on Tsdz2? I ask because I read some people say the motor gets real hot very fast?
I don't know. The Prize tag on the Bafang in my country costs 70% of a cheap brand new Ebike.... unless you find it dirt cheap somewhere it's just not worth it in my case. I rather give 30% more cash and get everything already build on a new bike. But this is a very good video. Totally illegal if the speed limit of 25 kmh is not used in my country. Well thanks for the good video.
Interesting comparison, I have been wondering which to buy and I'm as torn as I was before watching.
Still, v informative, thanks for making the effort.
Which one you have choosen?
First off, great, detailed video here. 2 things, I wish Tongsheng produced a 2-3kw version that could run up to a 72v battery. They could really improve sales, because the BBSHD and BBS02 both don't include torque sensing pedal assist. And of course, the second wish would be if Bafang made a new version of the BBS02 and BBSHD with torque sensing added. Cheers.
Jup non comparable on that point. Surely not let's say whan using a 72v 24ah battery and 52t chainring
Nicely done. I appreciate the way you broke it down and went point by point.
You couldn't ask for a more accurate comparison between these 2 systems. I've been installing both for about 5 years on recumbent trikes so other than a couple of small power delivery differences, your evaluation is spot on. Another thing to add for many buyers is the difference between solving problems. The Bafang would seem to be the better built of the 2 kits but the Tongsheng is by far the easiest to repair. Both have worldwide resellers of spare parts so you are not locked into proprietary dealers that you have to ship your kit to for repairs.
Any Chinese made ebike motor is easier to repair cos spare parts are easier to get ,compared to Bosch.....Here in France Befang is the most preferred than any other..
What parts and tools would you recommend taking on a long trip for emergency repairs?
@@justincase3230 If you are going to have problems with a motor kit it will likely be internal. The Bafangs are known to have Controller problems & the Tongshengs are known to have spragg clutch & Blue Delrin Gear problems. In my opinion, I would make sure to service either unit with lots of grease on the gears & ride ether unit for a few 100 km rides before setting off on a long journey. Once your kit is broken in & maintained, either kit will provide many years & kms of trouble free service. Just be sure to use your gears as you would without the assist & the motor for an extra push for your convenience. In other words don't let the motor lag by using high gears &/or the throttle to climb your hills - use your gears & leg power too.
Merhaba, ben üç tekerli bisikletim için almak istiyorum, yaşadığım yerde yokuşlar var, arka sepette iki çocuk taşımak istiyorum sizce tongshengmi, bafangmı tercih etmeliyim?
I have had BBSHD BBS01,2 TO B2 and I can say befang is way better than both tosheng and bosch cos spare parts are easier to get Including tosheng compared to bosch. I'm not planning to change anytime soon.....
would the open source firmware have fixed the issues with the tongsheng?
I have the Bafang BBSO1B that's the 250 watt model which In the UK is the legal limit. I also have the tongsheng 350 watt(naughty naughty lol). Surprisingly the Bafang is more powerful and in my opinion is a better drive, its also more adjustable, if you get the right lead, you can customise all the gearing and many other things, and you can read your battery charge in the LCD screen.
I had bad luck with my Tongsheng from the beginning, I had a faulty LCD and it was impossible to set up. It took 4 months and me paying the postage back to china to get it changed, I have two complaints with it. One the charge indicator is rubbish, you can run out of charge and it still shows full, BUT it does go a lot further than the Bafang on a charge. The main dislike I have with it is the torque sensor, The harder you pedal the more assistance the motor gives, So after a long day out( and i'm exhausted) and I have the final Big hill to climb, I still have to pedal hard to get full power to assist me up the hill even on the turbo setting. The bafang just glides up the hill with me giving minimum input.
I hardly ever use the Tongsheng, but I love the Bafang which I intend to upgrade to the BBS02B 500 watt even though its illegal in the UK. I have a trailer on order so I can find space in it to carry a spare charged battery to double its range.
i bought bbshd 1kw 52v. hope its powerful enough
One thing I'd mention, is that the Bafang is dead quiet compared to the noisy tsdz2
Both my TSDZ2 with VLCD5 provide a 6V supply for lights which switches on with the backlght. You don't need a shift sensor because the torque sensor detects reduced pedalling force when you shift, which you should do anyway for the health of your transmission (you can't stop pedalling to shift a derailleur, a problem with the Bafang). The chain-stay clamp should be more than enough to hold the motor steady with the single lock-ring. You can set the torque/assistance ratio so the motor applies more power with less pedal force, making the motor kick in sooner/harder. I don't know why you'd need more than four assist levels - .does it really need that much extra fine-tuning?. Throttle isn't legal (beyond 6 km/h) in the UK so no problem there. I will probably build a Bafang mid-drive bike at some point, but I'm currently putting together a hub motor trike, so that will be next year.
Merhaba, ben üç tekerli bisikletim için almak istiyorum, yaşadığım yerde yokuşlar var, arka sepette iki çocuk taşımak istiyorum sizce tongshengmi, bafangmı tercih etmeliyim?
I bought and fitted a Tongsheng 500w and 16ah 48volt battery. I've just done a 25km ride on a fairly hilly route, mostly in tour mode and the depletion of the battery indicated that I may be good for 100km range, it's still over 50v. Not bad for a pensioner on an old(ish) Decathlon Triban 500, I'm very happy with my new 'bionic legs'...
Hi Alex! You made the most energy efficient choice 😃
I have a similar battery for my 750W Bafang and I can go really far with that (didn't measure it yet though since I live in high ground, with a lot of climbs and descents, so the consumption is different)
With a 500W Tongsheng kit you cut the consumption, getting the most out of your bike!
Enjoy your ride 🚴
I have a tongsheng and do 60-70 miles a day. I have two 14ah batteries and I usually get 35-40 miles from 1 battery with some charge to spare. I love the simplicity of the tongsheng. There is only one cable going to the cockpit
Pardon me, it's 13ah, and I'm getting 80km per charge (200km so far), I try and use minimum assist (Eco) as I'm trying to improve my fitness, but it's normally quite hilly on my routes. I'm pleased with that.
I have just undergone a similar eBike journey and have both these and a rear hub. I have come to very similar conclusions about the two mid motors. My preference for feeling, as you say, bionic, is the TSDZ2 but I live in a very hilly area and the Bafang BBS01B (250W) handles the hills better in my opinion. Because the Bafang jkust gives what you ask of it it is easier on me in steep terrain. Everrywhere else I prefer the TSDZ2 as it just feels more natural. If I could run a 500w motor it would be the TSDZ all the way although the Bafang has a better reliability record. I have the gear sensor on the Bafang and I find it makes little difference. As you suggest I just stop pedalling momentarily on changes. The TSDZ seems less snatchy when changing, probably as a result of the torque sensor, which I love. There you are more subjective opinion for you to chew over. I should finally add that the TSDZ2 sips battery power in comparison. This is perhaps due the torque sensing again as it gives you a band of assistence for each of it's four levels where the Bafang is either on or off at any one level.
I'm on the fence with 2 conversion kits 3.batteries I wired up for longer distance more drive time for scooter to see motor work and.determine direction sprocket wants to spin motor where to put.2 twelve volt lithium attach remotely and secure motor on bycicle.what did I get into fasten midrivelooks better than backtire attach ALTHOUGH bike I wanted motor on is one piece pedal crank not 3piece ????
I have a BBS02b on my retrofit. I dislike the onset of power pedaling doesn't feel natural. The Tongsheng's torque sensing sounds nice, but the downsides look numerous. I've been considering a CYC Stealth motor, but it's too expensive and there are too many quality-control issues for me.
I totally agree with you man... In the future I will share some settings for the BBS02B via the programming tool that should make it a little bit more confortable
Maybe it will help you too
I'd go for the Tongsheng if only for the torque sensor. While rotation sensors 'can' work, I'd want the motor output to scale with the force I have to apply into the bike. Feels more natural, that way, and is why I prefer mid-drive motors in general.
2022 here. Just learned about Bafang a week ago. Now about Tongsheng. Thanks, I will take the latter. I had 250W hubmotors. Around the hills I often have to face 8-9 km/h sections. A 5OOW Tongsheng will boost it up enough. I don't want to fly. You just talked me out of Bafang :) +++ I just found a page, they sell it with stickers, you can put on the motor, saying 250W. Clever!
Hello i wonder how could you add throttle i couldnt add i bought but it wont work
Setting the speed limit (and the pre-set on/off) is for Legal reasons in some places.
If an EBike can go over a certain speed in my city, it is classified as a motorcycle and you need to register it and get a special license.
To avoid this, you can prove to a police that you are using a speed limiter
great video my dude. loved it. good points all the way around
Thanks for the info, i have installed a bbs02b 36v 500wat middrive motor 48T chain wheel front and 13/34 T cassette rear it have a lots power like a horse hi hi ferry ferry nice, the bike is a Giant expedition expert series. I draw a helmed course mij hear is not enough to protect the head.
Probably the best ebike mid-drive comparison video I’ve seen.
In the uk (& most of Europe) the ebike speed limit is 25kph (16mph)
But I don’t understand why the motor is limited to 250W
That's why I find hard daily to respect rules that doesn't respect me.
Thank you for detailed review and many informations. Keep up 💪
Le tsdz2 n'est pas top.
Même en 750 watts en 48 volts sa ne pousse pas sensor de merde.
Pareho namang mahal yan, mag L- faster ka na lang 5thousand petot lang
I have the tsdz2 750w fitted to a full suspension bike, biggest problem is the cadence which is about 85 with a full charge and about 70 as the battery goes down. With the 42t chain ring you will get about 25mph pedaling as hard as you can and after that you are fighting against the motor. Crank arms are weak and bend at slightest knock, the chain ring has play and wobbles, with a low battery the cadence is so bad you will be quite passed after a while
True not to mention the drag the clutch on the cranck arm has pff. This video says no resistance on the tsdz2 or the bafang, mid engine.... Wrong!!
Ffs - what do you want for £260?
Hello Luke, thank you for this useful vid! Can you answer to me, with which motor is possible to ride using less cardial work? I've got very serious heart failure, that means im able to walk mid-speed continously, but riding a normal bike is too much. I tried it, i ran out of power and oxygen after 2 km. So as I understood well the Bafang set would be better for me? Thank you!
you got it right man: the Bafang kit is the right one for you!
the 500W at 48V motor will allow you to install bigger batteries, and if you buy a 48V 17Ah one you'll be set. in case you have a lot of steep climbs on your way, you can think about the 750W version :)
Which is best for going uphill easy? That's the only thing I need.
Hi! First of all, see this: ua-cam.com/video/T7ve958hJXE/v-deo.html
based on the info that I've shown, and considering the same 500W version for both motors, probably the Bafang because it allows you to efficiently use the throttle when you need it; it also provide more torque (100Nm)... unless you are looking for an "only pedals" experience, in that case the Tongsheng pedaling system is more realistic, but you will make a bit more of workout (80Nm). I would probably try something more powerful that 500W in this case.
Bbshd, 160nm of torque, i have 2, 48v 1000w, or 52v 1500, done 2k miles and it goes so good, just make sure to get these things, 1st motor sator has the new rotor, have a quick link chain, 8-9speed depending in chain ring, gear sensor, use a push down thumb throttle avoid twist, a bafang programme cable this enhances the speed and reaction of settings like how strong the thumb throttle works, make sure the wheel rims are double walled for extra weight and force, have a decent capacity battery over 15ah, 48v has bigger range of top capacity but 52v gives more power and 20ah 52v are strong and gd range, don't use throttle on hill climbs with bafang its stupid, i mean 100nm of torque if ur in right gear it will fly up lol
There's custom firmware for Tongsheng that improves it drastically, but that requires some elbow grease to install and a different screen unit.
You don’t need a new display for the custom firmware, though it givea you more readings
Thank you Luke, this video has been very helpful to us.
👍👍👍👏👏👏Thank for the review. Can you tell us which one is noisy.
Hey there! In reality none of them is noisy, the very little noise you got at high speed is covered by the wind
Judge by yourself:
ua-cam.com/video/26yWMV298xI/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/wMJjYpF0OUg/v-deo.html
Thank you!
great video, you hit the right questions for me.
.... Thank you Sir ....😀👍.. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐....
Thanks, great video. Bari looked beautiful and I would be there too - if we were not locked-down in rainy London - maybe in a month or two...
I'm waiting for my tongsheng tsdz2 to arrive. I decided to go for the tsdz2 over the bafang because of the positive feedback of the torque sensor, if it's as good as the Yamaha on my haibike, I'll be most pleased.
My next one will either be bafang 1000w or the cycx1.
I went for the tsdz2 and I am very happy with it. The Befang that I tried was also very good, but I prefer the torksensor.
My next motor will be again with torksensor.
How was your experience after all?
@@pablonoguerales1425 Hi, I'm really happy with the motor. It comes very close to the Yamaha pw-se on my haibike in terms of responsiveness and performance, the quality of the motor however is not great, but replacement parts are readily available and fairly cheap. If you're thinking of getting one you won't be disappointed.
@@wattyler5591 I read about your tongsheng and yamy there and wondering if your still pissed???🤔🤠😆😝🤙
@@wattyler5591 I'm wondering how to mount a drive straight up in between the two frame tubes
seems silly to hang the motor in the forward position to also use as a skid plate?
I was thinking of the Tongshen for my Recumbant trike, but now I’m wondering if that is the best for me. I’ll keep studying...
Torque sensing works better on a recumbent than a traditional bike. The TS being far, far lighter, make handling a bent a lot easier. TS has secondary attachment I am not sure why he didn't use it, but it keeps the motor from coming loose like happens with the Bafang. Love these four videos, but sadly, he doesn't know what he should about setting options like the throttle and alternative e displays.
@@MHH3180 I purchased the TSDZ2 and I’m installing it now on my Catrike Road. Nicely built unit it weighs 8lbs 8oz. So far the install has been a snap. Waiting on the battery delivery and some extra mounts for the electronics from T-Cycle. The unit came from Eco Cycles. I would recommend them highly.
@@daviddickmeyer5231 could not agree more. David at Eco-Cycles is Aces with me!
Very nice video thank you for all the input on the Bafang motor I am considering to purchase one to convert my MTB and I am studding all the little features and advantages that you can get from each brand.
already liked and subscribed
Bbshd is the best of the bafang bunch, its easy to fit, only work your do is removing bottom bracket, re-feeding gear cable, removing front derailleur and its gear shifter, just make sure ur wheel rims are double walled.
I recently learned all Tongshen mid Drive kit use the same exact motor the only thing that's different is the firmware what you can change with the USB interface that you hook to your computer which I'm sure isn't something they want all potential buyers to know about but that's not my concern so I say modify the firmware overvolt it and give it hell 😊😅😂
Great comparison, i have 2 ebikes, one new fitness with tongsheng 36v 350 Without a throtle and 18-20kg weight depending on the size of the battery and one 20yr Steel 26in... 30kg with a heavy brusless 36v 500w hub back wheel. Tottaly different, one is a helpful normal bike to have a workout (6000km in one year!) and the "tank" as a commutter and more like a moped. The same battery in the tongsheng in eco-1 mode and a little in tour-2 Mode lasts more than double than the other with assist level 1 (80-100w).
Greetings from Greece.
Thank you for your video. Very helpful. I am considering these two.
Which is the best? The Bafang is a little more expensive and even so by my opinion slightly better then the Tonshang but all motors have there strengths and weaknesses, the Bafang strength is it is quieter and smoother and hear it encounters less problems and parts are easier to come by, it weaknesses is price its a little more then the Tonshang and the fittings. The biggest problem I have had with the Bafang the securing nut coming lose and motor lowering so could do with a more secure fastening, the Tongshang as a fixing bolt that secures the motor to the frame but where that fits I have a stand fixing there.
My advice if you do fit a Bafang motor you can secure it to the frame by fitting the motor with jubilee clips, a jubilee clip aroung the motor then a smaller one through the firs clip securing it to the frame. Ideal sizes 120mm to 140 mm for the motor and 50mm to 70mm for the frame and this will give a stronger fitting to the motor to frame and stop the risk of your motor coming lose. I hope this helps as I find the Bafang slightly better and worth the extra cost and work. Mike
When a BBS0*-***W is tuned in software and mode is set to "current" it works like a charm. I tried the TDSZ2 but did not like the torque system, the current mode Bafang was more suited for me also because it has a throttle.
CAN YOU COMPARE THE TORQUE SENSOR FEELING OF TONGSHENG AND SHIMANO OR BOSCH?
Excelent and really helpful video
Thanks for the video! Very informative :D
I got the 850c display does this mean I can not update the firmware ?
The amp setting has no effect - it’s 18A hardcoded limit
The tsdz2 really shines after flashing to the custom firmware - you get a voltage read on boot with it - plus you can set assist levels etc
Bonjour, merci pour votre vidéo très informative. D'après ce que j'ai compris (excusez moi, je suis novice sur les ebike) Tongsheng propose un système de pedal assist avec un torque qui semble être performant (comparé au système présent sur Bosch y-a-t-il une grosse différence?), alors que la marque Bafang ne dispose pas de cette technologie ou tu moins pas nativement sur leur kit ? Ou est-ce possible d'ajouter cette option via un kit spécial Bafang ? Merci de votre aide.
Bonjour et merci à vous !
Depuis ce que j'ai pu comprendre, Bafang ne produit pas de moteurs mid-drive avec détection de couple. Mais ça ne veut pas dire que ce soit moins fort... au contraire, il nous pousse plus fort pour plus de temps (résultat du fait que le moteur sait qu'on pousse avec lui, mais il ne sait pas avec combien de force).
Par contre avec moteur Tongsheng (et depuis ce que j'ai lu ici: www.quora.com/What-is-the-working-principle-of-the-torque-sensor-of-a-Bosch-electric-bike-motor c'est pareil pour moteurs Bosch), étant que le moteur est fourni de détection de couple, il produira une force proportionnelle à la nôtre, du coup il faudra faire de l’effort pour faire que le moteur s’engageât à fond! Ça reproduit une sensation de pédaler plus naturellement, nous permettons de gagner en terme de durée de la batterie, bien évidemment, et aussi de faire un peu de sport 👍
C’est uniquement questions de ce qu'on veut depuis nôtre velo : soit-il de nous remplacer ou de jouer avec nous
@@LukeLorusso merci, c'est exactement ce que je veux; faire aussi un peu de sport et avoir la sensation de pédaler. Si jamais je suis trop fatigué, je pourrai toujours enclencher le Throttle... c'est super!!!
Complimenti molto esaustivo,io vorrei trasformare una delle mie due mtb per andarci al lavoro ma anche per divertirmi,dopo i tuoi video sarei orientato su un tongsheng da 500 o 750 devo fare 40 km e ci sono parecchie salite.l unico dubbio che ho e che le mie bici sono full e nel carro posteriore non c e quel trapezietto dove andrebbe il cavlletto cioè quello in cui tu fissavi con una staffa il motore per nn farlo muovere,bastera solo stringerlo li sul movimento centrale secondo te prima che faccio la spesa?
You can order a USB Cable that you can plug on your phone or computer to fully reprogram the controller including the max amps and each levels individually or change levels from speed limit to current limit on the Bafang
yep, sure thing! checkout the new videos 😉
The TSDZ2 is far from 80 Nm, I have a Bosch Gen I 50 Nm and it's more powerful than the TSDZ2. Noticeable on steep hills. The Bosch will climb 16-20% easier than the TSDZ2 and the Bosch has more power at a slower Cadence.
The only issue with the Bosch is the 27 Km/hr cut off.
On level ground and moderate hills the TSDZ2 will be faster but on the really steep stuff the Bosch wins and it's also far more efficient hardly even getting luke warm were as the TSDZ2 will be quite hot.
The 80nm rating of the TSDZ2 is complete nonsense.
I guess it seems nonsense just because on its stock firmware a lot of its potential is basically locked... you find out its real force after you unlock it with a custom firmware. I agree with you about not being fair
@@LukeLorusso I highly doubt I will unlock 30-40 nm with the modded firmware. It might be worth giving it a shot but I doubt it will take the heat.
Out of the box though the 80 Nm rating is really not true, more like 40 Nm.
@@o00scorpion00o I understand the skepticism. In case you find time and willingness, I'll say try it :) my next video will be about it
@@LukeLorusso I might give it a try, I don't have a lot of faith with the heat generated.
Might be worth a shot before I sell the motor or whole bike lol.
Thank you so much, I own a TongSheng TDZ2 May I know how to adjust the power assist levels? Thank you in advance.
A shift sensor is a needed on a torque sensing system as when you shift you should be letting off of the power anyway and that will instantly cut power through the system because it is a more natural for you. The cadence drives already more jerky, power meaning a shift sensor is necessary.
Cannot believe how bad the donor bikes are. I wouldn't want to add all that weight to such basic bikes with horrible brakes and components.
I guess it all depends on your personal circumstances, if like me with COPD I prefer the Bafang BBS02 which I used daily to commute with minimal effort over 10 miles each way to work and back for over 2 years.
I hope your well man, I have family with COPD and it's no joke I know! It breaks my heart when I see family struggling to get a breath just sitting on the sofa.
Ciao Luke, grazie per i tuoi video, davvero molto interessanti e diversi da quanto si trova normalmente nel web ! Attualmente sono indeciso su come equipaggiare una cargo per trasporto bambini. Siccome dove abito ci sono anche strade con pendenze importanti sarei tentato dalla maggior coppia del Bafang. Mi frena l'idea che l'assistenza sia meno facilmente dosabile rispetto al Tongsheng, che é più facile da installare ed é meno aggressivo con catena e cambio (con Bafang sembrerebbe sia preferibile installare il sensore di cambiata per una minore usura). Hai mai fatto delle prove di salita su pendenze importanti ? Ti ringrazio!
Ciao Marco, sono molte domande provo a sintetizzare una risposta.
Cargo bike? L'ho sempre sognata! Io installerei direttamente un Bafang e non considererei un Tongsheng.
È vero che avrai più stress sulla catena, ma dovrai anche far fronte ad un peso complessivo più importante!
Usa catene di qualità, equipaggia almeno un 500W (batteria da 36V almeno da 17Ah, se puoi anche un 48V che ti permette di raggiungere capacità anche maggiori fino a 1000Wh).
Io salgo molto spesso dei ponti con il Bafang e se la cava egregiamente, chiaramente devo aiutarlo con le gambe in quella situazione, ma sono molto soddisfatto delle prestazioni! Io però sono da solo, se devi anche caricare dei bambini io sceglierei un 750W per essere tranquillo. È il peso che lo richiede
@@LukeLorusso grazie Luke! Gentilissimo ! ti farò sapere
Hi, great details on your video.
I want to convert my Marin from rear hub to mid drive 500W, but it seems that the bottom bracket set is seized and rusted into place, so the only option is to cut off with a hacksaw or angle grinder flush with the frame, then hammer or drill out the bottom bracket.
How you describe the locking ring for the motor is important to me - do you think If I have no threads remaining in the bike frame then I can still make the conversion, because it slots through and tightens to its self?
The purpose of the mid drive upgrade is for me to load up the bike with camping equipment and go in the countryside, which has lots of hills where I live in South West England
Did he say the Baafang was faster? How is that possible when the tongsheng is a 750W motor?
Overall not a bad comparison. Though I am a speed type of guy and anything less than a BBSHD is just not for me but I did enjoy the video. I am riding around on the surron X bike right now and that's my latest project upgrading it and making it faster overall.
Thanks and good luck to you.
oh that would be illegal here in europe, wonderful bike anyway!
@@LukeLorusso That's because your streets are small and people are every where. From the video the bike trails look dangerous.
I have front motor and also have big delay like in this video of trotle.
Do the pedals move when using throttle?
no man, that would be dangerous
Ciao Luca, video molto interessante (così come gli altri tuoi che ho visto). La scorsa settimana ho provato una ebike a noleggio (KTM con motore Bosch) e mi ha entusiasmato cosi mi sono messo alla ricerca di opzioni simili ma più abbordabili. Non mi interessa tanto di realizzare un motorino elettrico da città quanto di avere una bici da trekking per passeggiate su strade di campagna e montagna che mi dia un "aiutino" per le salite più lunghe e ripide (per intendersi quelle in cui con la MTB è necessario usare la moltiplica piccola e fare girare le gambe come un frullatore). Per il resto, in piano, non ho problemi a pedalare anche per 40-50 km senza aiuto. In base ai tuoi video e all'idea che mi sono fatto, per un utilizzo del genere sarebbe meglio aver il torque sensor e quindi sarebbe preferibile il Tongsheng. Tu cosa mi consigli?
Ciao Francesco e grazie per il tuo interessamento.
Hai fatto centro. Se l'esperienza che vuoi riprodurre è quella della pedalata assistita "progressiva", il tongsheng è il motore che fa per te. Puoi anche non montare l'acceleratore (in effetti non é gran che utile). Ti consiglio di scegliere la versione da almeno 500W per equiparare (anche superare un pelino) le prestazioni dei motori KTM (superiori rispetto al fatto che il telaio della bici è stato disegnato intorno al motore).
Il consiglio è, ove possibile, di farti accompagnare nell'installazione del motore da un meccanico di biciclette! Avrà sicusamente l'esperienza e gli strumenti giusti! Per la batteria puoi fare da solo. Se puoi, spendi sulla batteria: non te ne pentirai!
@@LukeLorusso Ciao Luke, grazie tantissimo per i tuoi video, li ho visti e rivisti e mi hai aiutato a capire tante cose. Mi inserisco in questa conversazione perchè anch'io come molti sogno di andare a fare lunghi giri su strade (e sentieri) collinari e di montagna con la mia MTB. Opterei dunque per motore Tongsheng TSDZ2 da 750W. Sono indeciso però sulla capacità della batteria: 48V sì ma quanti Ah? 17? 20 o più? Vorrei godere di grande autonomia e, come consigli tu, non voglio risparmiare su questo importante elemento dell'e-bike. Mi consiglieresti inoltre un sito dove acquistare un prodotto valido senza dover attendere 2 o 3 mesi e con buon rapporto qualità/prezzo? Per ultimo, la mia MTB ha i freni idraulici, questo rappresenta un problema? Grazie anticipatamente per la tua disponibilità e ancora complimenti per i tuoi tutorial! Roberto Della Vecchia
Wait, you can keep your double chainring with Tonsheng motor?
Not exactly: you can find some double (or triple) chainring specifically made for the TSDZ2 :)
@@LukeLorusso OK. Good to know. I have a bicycle with 3x7 gears and I don't want to waste that.
Does the second bike really have more torque than the base Renault/Dacia Logan ?
You need no shift sensor or brake sensors with TS. Also, you do not need the throttle.
Sure, you don't need the throttle. But still some viewer might be interested in comparing them :)
About the shift sensor I agree with you, but about brake sensor... even if it's a torque sensing system, you still need it
See this ua-cam.com/video/KZrGvg4_KH0/v-deo.html to understand why
@@LukeLorusso well, I am on my fourth dozen and never a complaint. Torque sensing still requires some cadence. Yes, you could bypass stock programming for quicker response, but you would stop pedaling and hit the brake so there would be no incident. Now, if you are using a throttle and bypass the minimum speed for use, you could have a problem.
I like the bafang.
Thanks for video and info.
Totally agree about the tongsheng throttle cutting power when pedaling.
Is there a fix anyone?
Hi there, thank you for watching!
I think with a firmware mod you should get rid of it, I'll make sure to cover that next year ✌
@@kevinshort3943 the throttle is there exactly for that reason. Since a mid-drive motor is a generic-purpose motor, you could eventually build a motorcycle, than go to the motorization office, follow the legal steps and legalize your diy motorcycle with a licenseplate and all! That's absolutely possible and that's the reason why the throttle is present
@@kevinshort3943 By your logic, why put an electric motor on a bicycle? It's BECAUSE WE WANT IT TO BE DIFFERENT. Throttle gives you the option to do what you want with it. You can just cruise around on electric power.
I think you prefer the Bafang a little more than the Tongsheng ;-)
Is there any chance that any of the auxiliaries used for Bafang kits also work with Tongsheng? I converted my bike with a Bafang BBS02, but would like to try a Tongsheng. Do I have to change everything?
The most difficult part is my magnetic brake sensors that are epoxy glued to the handles. 😄. The most expensive is of course the battery.
nope man, sorry... battery aside, everything else has different plugs.
Also the cabling system itself is totally different