I grew up with this Robin , he wanted an edgier and street kid watching his back lol. I think people were too hard on Jason because they didn't know what it felt like to come from nothing, and just be angry because of all the loss in his life , they couldn't sympathize.
To be fair, pretty much everyone Batman meets has an extremely specific hyper fixation, it makes sense that he'd figure Jason Todd was really into stealing tires.
I absolutely love this origin story. He’s bold, gutsy, brash and fearless. He sassed and the shucked a tyre iron at the most feared person in Gotham. How am I not supposed to love this guy?
I still will never get over the fact that Jason’s original backstory was that he came from an acrobat family that got murder called “The flying *TODDS* “ That’s so funny because: A) Is such a cheap blatant rip-off of Dick’s backstory that more characters should be questioning HOW DID THIS HAPPEN TWICE?? That’s an oddly specific thing to happen twice and have the same result. B) “The flying Graysons” works as a name for an acrobat family because the name Grayson sounds like a graceful bird soaring through the sky, *TODD* is your annoying coworker who steals food from the office fridge. C) Not but really is such a blatant rip-off how did an actual writer got pay for that. Like why don’t you just redraw Dick’s debut comic with crayons while you’re at it???
Right , but don't forget the red hair either. DC desperately wanted a new Robin and was well if it ain't broke don't fix and repeated the same thing for Jason back then
I do think this was a better origin for Jason as Robin, being quite different from his previous Dick-lite intro. But it was just too soon after Batman sacking Dick. Had there been more time it could have been seen as Batman realising he'd made a mistake and correcting it, perhaps even involving Dick in the discussion. As it is it comes across as it would if Batman and Robin really were lovers - don't tell Wertham!- with Batman breaking up with Robin and swearing there was nobody else, only to turn up with a new boytoy the next weekend. Poor form Bruce, poor form!
tbh, batman and robin dating is hella sus, but wertham taking that away from their time together rather than bruce being a father/mentor figure is even more sus.
Also worth noting - this issue actually CHANGED the canon of Dick's transition to Nightwing, to have Bruce fire him. The Pre-Crisis version had Dick be the one who felt it was time to move on, stop being a sidekick, and create his own adult identity, which I personally think makes 1000x more sense than Bruce randomly deciding that having a 19-year-old partner is too unethical and then immediately taking in another kid. So it's like this issue purposely rewrote things to make Bruce look like as much of a hypocrite as possible, which I will never understand.
It gets even more confusing when Bruce and Nightwing have their fight a few issues later and Bruce is all I took him on cause I missed you. Which would have made more sense with the Dick just leaving backstory than the him firing him one. This one just makes Bruce look unstable...well more unstable than he has to lol.
@@CasuallyComics Exactly! It would have made more sense with the original backstory, and given both of them an understandable perspective in that argument - Dick could still legitimately be peeved that Bruce took on a new Robin (a persona Dick created, after all) without consulting him, but Bruce now has the legitimate counter-point of saying "Well, YOU chose to leave, so you don't get to complain that I found a replacement". It would've been much more nuanced and made Bruce's motivations a lot clearer, I think.
I mean, seriously, I have no idea how nobody's mental gears caught the discrepancy between "No, it's too dangerous for a twenty-ish young adult man to be my side kick. Now, a boy half his age and with none of his training? That works for me!" to the point you have to wonder if the discrepancy was meant to be there. But if so, why? All it does is make Batman look like he's going batty. The story would flow so much better if Dick had left of his volition to become Nightwing.
I hated this retcon. In the original, Dick decided he'd had enough of being in Batman's shadow, he decided to step away. Making your own decisions is what being adult is all about. Now Bruce decides to send him away, which is treating him like a kid.
I originally thought Dick got tired of Batman telling him what to do as Robin. Dick was older now and argued with Bruce, thus leaving Wayne Manner to become Night Wing. I never heard of him getting shot by the joker , then having Batman dismiss Dick from being Robin before." Well, Robin, .....its just times have changed, and our old whimsical criminals are now becoming deadly. It's too dangerous to be Robin now, ....so old chum, I'm letting you go."
Personally, I like mixing both together. On one hand, Dick was growing restless in Bruce's shadow. On the other hand, he loved Bruce like family and broken as they both are, it can be very daunting to break away from the only thing you've ever known. Bruce and Dick are probably the most enmeshed of them all and find it incredibly difficult to function without each other, though they'd scarcely say it out loud. And for Bruce, on one hand, he's well aware that Dick is getting older and becoming restless and struggling with his identity and independence. Bruce knows it isn't healthy to keep him tightly secured in his nest though he wants to. On the other hand, like many have said, Bruce may be genuinely concerned for Dick's safety and truly wants him out of the family business for a chance at a life of safe, average normalcy. Of course Nightwing was born either way, leaving them both sort of bitter and uncomfortable with how they understood each other's choices. Though they still love each other, things are awkward: an emotionally stunted and worried father and his rebellious son who feels betrayed and is trying to find himself. I really get this vibe between them especially during the 1990s Nightwing solo run which I'm reading now. Good stuff. As for why in the world Bruce picked up Jason on a whim like that, I think it was part genuine pity for another orphan and part his co-dependence on Dick or at least what Dick's role as his son and partner offered to him. I think he was still reeling from what happened with Dick and feeling guilty about his decision to allow him/encourage him to leave so easily. So Jason was both a selfless and selfish decision. Such are the complicated depths of Bruce and his personal relationships.
The name "Ma Gunn" will never not be hilarious and I'm so glad you made fun of it. :-P Overall I really like this origin for Jason too - definitely an improvement over giving him a carbon-copy of Dick's backstory. I do think a lot of how he's written here comes across as painfully middle-class, middle-aged writers trying (really badly) to evoke how a "street kid" would talk and act. But I think the passage of time has let that come across as more charmingly hokey than I probably would've felt about it if I'd read it at the time. Jason's 'tude does feel realistic, though - he's someone who's used to having to fend for himself, so the chip is understandable. Personally I like that that gives him room for growth, and sets up organic conflict between him and billionaire-since-birth Bruce. If the writers had approached it intelligently, they could have shown how Jason gave Bruce a vitally different perspective and helped him be a better crime-fighter through giving him a more real understanding of the lower-class. But sadly you don't see much of that during Jason's Robin years.
Honestly? Love this origin. I actually enjoyed the twist that the school of Ma Gunn took in Red Hood and the Owtlaws from the Rebirth continuity. Since I haven't tracked as back as his second origin, I haven't read that issue, so this video gave me a renewed understanding of the narrative choices in the beginnings of Rebirth.
It seems I finally found a Joker ship I can get behind: Joker x Diamond Necklace (I don't trust him with another human being). 😎 This is a more interesting backstory but Bruce telling Dick crime fighting is no place for a child and then almost immediately taking on another boy as a sidekick...maybe wasn't the best idea. Idk I like Jason even when he's rude and annoying and I get why he was disliked but I still think voting for him to die was extreme.
5:25 Vicki's pretty soulless in this comic apparently. Telling Bruce that he should feel guilty that his parents died on the day they died because his company makes weapons.
He was the Robin in Crisis on Infinite Earths. He has a few good scenes here and there but he's not front and center vs the Anti Monitor. He does work with the cool JSA Outsiders team that fight to rescue Earth X from the supervillains in COIE 9 and 10.
If we could have this origin of Jason Todd with the Bronze age reason for Dick Grayson leaving (wanting to be his own man, etc.) I think it would've been a lot better. I was too young to read the post-crisis Jason Todd stories when they were released, but I read the trades last year, and regardless of how people felt about Jason Todd in the late 80s, I really enjoyed him as Robin and found him to be the most engaging Robin.
I really like Vicki Vale later in pre-crisis (specifically when pre-crisis Jason had just become robin) she's awesome.... and then post-crisis there is this... rude person with her face. Also on the origin thing: I can get over having robins 1 and 2 both being acrobats, even former aerialists- it does make sense for the role after all. But even though Pre-Crisis Jason's introduction, specifically how his parents died, was different to Dick's (they didn't fall, killer croc mauled them to death since they were investigating something for Dick) it's just not different enough. There are more ways to adopt a circus child then having his circus come to town and his parents dying while its there... and I honestly think that all the writers could have done better at the time. The problem, from what I can tell, is that "Robin" meant Dick Grayson, Jason (original acrobat flavor) was I believe the first (or at least one of the first) legacy character. Dick had to leave the batman book and go off and do things seperate from batman (with the titans) and the character of robin was necessary to Batman so they needed a new robin. However, since Robin meant Dick to everybody involved they basically made pre-crisis Jason Dick-Grayson-Lite-Blonde-edition in an attempt to not upset fans and suprise suprise, this upset fans. They tried to rectify this post crisis and... People still wheren't happy. A massive part of me believes this is more due to the fact that they just disliked any character named "Jason Todd" on principle after what he was in pre-crisis. I must admit though, that I'm rather biased as Jason Todd and Stephanie Brown are my favorite robins. Oh and honestly DC: Flying Todds, thats the best you could do? Flying Foxes would have been better... (Todd means fox in old english)
@@lesliecordova7394 I think so? But it wasn’t intentional I think. Todd (spelled t o d d in case you’re using a translator) isn’t recognizable to most native English speakers as meaning ‘fox’ though, since its LONG since fallen out of the common parlance (the words used in everyday life that are generally known and taught)
@@rivkaewinters2974 I just learned that from you (Todd meaning fox), but still, you are right, "The flying foxes" was a way better name with lot of implications. And yes Flying Foxes are giant Bats (mega-bat, I believe I the correct word), and despite what Google and UA-cam try to sold me the first time, they are the most cutest bats that I have seen (online only, of course).
I wish that the pre- and post-Crisis origins could be combined. I like the tire theft over the acrobatic background, but I prefer the slower arc for the character that occurred in 1983-84, and I like how Dick felt some degree of guilt for Jay's predicament. I'm also in favor of Killer Croc as the main antagonist for young Jason instead of Two-Face. I really don't know why Collins changed that detail. For me, the definitive Jason Todd was the one in Mike W. Barr's Detective Comics run, which existed in a kind of flux between the two versions of the character.
Jason's early days as Robin was actually my introduction to not only Batman comics but comics in general. Prior to the '89 film, my only experience with Batman was the 1960s show and Hanna-Barbera cartoons. Christmas Eve that year, a relative gave me several issues that had Jason and Bats vs Ma Gunn and then vs Two-Face.
I believe this happened during Denny O'Neil and Jim Starlin's run on Batman. This is how he was drawn before they completely covered him in body armour. He also has the perpetual shadow on his mask. That being said, it was a good idea to change Jason's origin and make him distinct from Robin I. I didnt hate him, as I recall at the time.
Great video. I agree that treating “Robin” like a disposable franchise offended a lot of fans, and it made Batman look insensitive. It was obviously a marketing decision, but it didn’t work in this story line. I think the Bruce Timm Batman cartoon handled the transition better, though it still involved Bruce passing on the Robin identity without Dick’s approval. Pre-Crisis, they made a big deal of Dick doing so voluntarily and seeing Jason as a protege of sorts. The irony is that they went to all this trouble to create a new partner for Batman and fans in general preferred he work alone. Jason would be killed less than 2 years after this story. Although a third Robin was later introduced, he didn’t work with Batman as regularly as the heyday of the Batman and Robin partnership. I personally would’ve kept Dick Grayson as a late teen Robin and had him leading the Titans but working with Batman on special occasions -- as we saw in B:TAS. Something I liked about the dynamic between Batman and Nightwing in BATMAN AND HARLEY QUINN is that it’s like the senior partner/junior partner vibe from LAW & ORDER. That would’ve been my ideal way of maintaining the Bruce/Dick partnership. The dilemma was the short pants. The classic Robin outfit looked ridiculous on a grown man. The Neal Adams revamped costume for Tim Drake was a vast improvement for a young adult Robin. I think if they’d just updated the costume, they could’ve kept Dick as Robin and avoided this problem all together.
I prefer it being like batman and dick work well together, but dick gets fed up and quits, so bruce desperately didn't want to feel alone so he rushed jason into things, which led to him being unprepared and dying, with him entering a depressive state and swearing off robin's, only for tim to come a light up his world, and helps him heal his relationship with dick.
Well you can't spell vicky without icky lol...but other than that great job 👍 breaking down the detail like always, especially with jason todd. Cause i didn't know that much about this second "robin" or jason at all as how he became robin. Before he became the badass that i known him now as RED HOOD 😎
I think this is the first video i've watched of Jason's history where it dives into what led to Bruce meeting him and it is really awesome to hear. Also after listening to this again, I feel like Jason is Bruce's favourite kid at the time. Not sure which one is his favourite now but i do believe with all my heart that Bruce really ranks Jason above Dick at all times.
I still remember reading these issues as a kid on a bunk bed and buying every issue at the grocery store up until Jason Todd died ...it was the first run on Batman that I ever collected. This video reminds of seeing the 900 number in the comics where you called and voted if Robin died or not
Honestly, I preferred the ginger Jason Todd. It may have stretched credulity at times, but it made Mr. Grayson a part of the process and it felt more natural. If they had skipped the whole Dick getting shot and Batman firing him stuff, just had Dick being in the Titans, and then Bruce brings home another orphan who needs help, and has bat-balls the size of Argo City, and go through the Jason can't find a good name thing and Dick passes the mantle... essentially blending the best parts of both origins, it probably would have been best. Still wouldn't help against Jim Starlin, though.
I love your videos! You have great explanations to some of the best story lines. I can not wait to see what is next after every video. PLEASE keep up the awesome work.
I wouldn't call him the bratty Robin tbf, or even violent, the few times he was violent (Two face his father's murderer and Felipe the man who drew a woman to suicide, or an abusive pimp! ) and Jason during his post crisis run was a sweetheart! And he saved Joker before a year before his death..... But yeah, he was a good Robin, Steph got the same treatment as him sadly. Also funfacts, Jason was at the top of his class, a theater nerd, into Victorian era fashion and english! He was a nerd is what I'm saying, and he even believed Penguin reformed when Batman didn't, felt sorry for Two Face. So yeah, he wasn't a bad Robin, they dragged his rep (like steph) through the mud to make Tim look good
The 2 things that stands out most from what I've learned in recovery (7 years as of 01/24/2020, thank you) is that people can't control other people places or things and humans make mistakes 'cause they're only human). which means though out of character, Bruce's irrational logic regarding both Dick and Jason proves he's just another damaged person coping. before anyone says that his logic was not only flawed but his decisions were unrealistically fast, remember this simple phrase... because, comics!
"his logic was not only flawed but his decisions were unrealistically fast" As someone with abandonment issues, that's one of the most realistic things about it. Batman has the world's largest abandonment issues. Of course he immediately went whole hog with a new partner.
Vickie Vale was Batman's girlfriend in the 50s and yes she was his Lois with all the Silver Age wackiness. The writer of this story, Max Allan Collins, was the man who took over the Dick Tracy comic strip, removing much of the science fiction angle of the strip that had been appearing in the strip in the late 50s to the 60s. He took it over when Chester Gould retired. He killed off Moon Girl and had the Moon People leave Earth and never return again, nor mentioned again if memory serves.
Can you do a video like this for Dick and Tim? And make fun of the silliness of their stories as well? Because it's really funny how people make fun of this story in these days and forget that it was a story from the 80s, so let's see how a character from the 40s like Grayson holds up now, and let's see how logical for Bruce to take another child and make him Robin after his adopted son was killed. Thank you for your great work BTW I love your channel
Dick was almost 20 and he was still wearing the shorts!!!! bruce: you want a costume change, Dick? maybe get some pants? dick: and hide all of *this*?!
I never understood why Jason's second origin story was hated so much. His original story was too much like Dick's that it hurt. Jason's second origin story is original which I love. I just never understood the hate.
Imagine if your dad came home with a random new child and started calling him by your childhood nickname. I mean if I was Dick I'd be pretty fucking pissed.
Maybe Batman's rational for Dick no longer being Robin was intentionally flimsy? He calls Dick "son" when he asks if he can hang on, and perhaps that's not just an expression. Bruce raised Dick, and maybe he tried to retire him after that close a call for fear of loosing him. So, his rational is just a mask for his true reasons.
They actually adapted this story into a german Audiobook, The Apprentices of Crime. Only there, the Joker is behind the school. Because in these Audiobooks the Joker was Batman's only Nemesis.
It should have been a thing for Jason Todd, him finding a way to make Bruce just breakdown and guffaw, have the biggest snicker ever, not all the time but just something so f**king bizarre that Jason Todd does and Batman just can't help it, he just busts a gut laughing his ass off, and maybe one time have Jason just get so incensed why Batman is laughing thinking he's laughing at him (maybe he is?) that Jason's mere asking of it just causes Batman to lose it even more that he just passes out from sheer laughter, of course have it p**s off Jason, and then just move on, back to the story, of course these kinds of moments don't neccessarily advance the plot but it does develop a kind of dynamic between Batman and Red Hood I think in a way that is unique to them, something say Batgirl or even the other Robins or THE JUSTICE LEAGUE would be envious of, a way to cheer up the most self loathing man in all of DC. We and by we I mean ME, I want more of that in my batman comics, especially the darker stuff, imagine in The Joker War, or in Three Jokers, Red Hood causes Batman to laught uncontrollably, no joker gas nonsense involved just Red Hood, OR in Batman HUSH, Batman discovers that HUSH is Jason Todd by way of laughing at something HUSH did and suddenly he's "GASP JASON!!"
I just watched the Titians Live action series on DVD. It did Dick Grayson transfer from the dismissed Robin to early Nightwing and Jason Todd's stealing Batmobile's wheels origin story too.
Jason had a set of pistols he took from ma Gunn's school after burning it down as red hood, they were called ma Gunn's discipline, they made an appearance in injustice 2. Just thought I'd share
Sasha, not to be controversial, but do you know why DC changed Catwoman's race in Year One but changes it back. I get asked questions about it surprisingly often, but my channel is not about post crisis.
I'm going to be honest, and I know I'm in a small minority, but I never really liked Miller's Batman stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love dark, gritty Batman, because that's what he needs to be. I also love most of what I've read of Miller's other works. Sin City, especially. It just his work, in particular, has never felt like Batman to me. I don't know. Again, I know I'm very much in the minority on this one and I can't put my finger on exactly why I don't like it, I just...don't. I especially didn't like his Joker. Anyway, just my own deal
So Vicky Vale was actually a character in the comics? I always assumed she was made up for the Tim Burton movie and then appeared in a few comics following that
I really like to think that Bruce called him Robin in the same way that parents children by the wrong name. heck I like to I like the idea that he still called Jason, Dick, and Tim Robbin out, of habit .
Personally, I feel that they should have stretched it out for a few more issues. For example, have Jason escape Ma Gunn and find Batman to give him a piece of his mind. Build him up more as someone who can hold his own with or without Bruce and have Burce realize his potential and how he treated Dick. When he confronts his former sidekick, Dick accepts his apology though admits he's moved on as Nightwing. Allowing Burce to adopt Jason.
I'm in the middle of the road when it comes to Jason Todd's origin. The first part is nicely set up and gives us the falling out of Dick Grason, a look a Crime Ally, Batman's humanity, and the ionic image of Jason stealing tires off the Batmobile. The second act is where things become a bit shaky, and Bruce adopts Jason after almost unintentionally screwing him over. As much as I like it, it DOSE make Batman come off as a hypocrite when compared to how he treated Dick.
I know this is an old video so apologizes about the long comment but this has got me thinking that it would've been an interesting angle if Batman/Bruce firing Dick as Robin because he thinks Dick doesnt need it anymore Because like, theres this general vibe that Batman takes on Robins to help them - Dick is in the same place he is, his parents murdered in front of him and well Bruce became a hero and it helped him right? Jason is in crime alley stealing tyres to survive and isn't it better to have him as Robin where his anger can be directed somewhere positive Tim is the exception who become Robin to help Bruce (which i feel could be a really fun angle for the idenity troubles he seems to be having in canon atm hope they take it in that direction in urban legends) Steph and Daiman have similiar stories as Jason - although even beyond being invovled in the world of crime they're invovled in the world of heroes and villians pre-robin I feel like if Batman had fired Dick because it seemed Robin was negatively impacting him, that might have backed up this idea more. Like say Dick has a good social life outside of Robin but getting shot seems to make most of that collasp - because he has to heal and he cant tell anyone whats happened so basically he drops off the face of the planet while he heals and that puts strain on his social life and Bruce looks at this and decides 'Dick you shouldn't be Robin anymore because you dont need it, you should focus on your life outside of Robin' Dick meanwhile is pissed that Bruce is making that decision for him, that sure Dick doesn't need Robin as a clutch to handle his guilt and anger but being a hero is something that's important to him, he wants to help people. Bruce wouldn't hear of it and so Dick leaves. That even leaves room for how quickly Bruce takes on Jason as Robin - he knows he needs the back-up and he knows this kid needs help. It might even make him feel more confident because well, Robin worked for Dick didn't it? I think that angle would have made Jason's death hit all the harder because then suddenly Jason's death IS the first real moment of consequences for children wrapped up in this world - at least in a way that clings tight to Batman.
My memories of the time were largely sympathetic towards Jason. Consensus among fans I spoke with was it was a better origin and served to differentiate Jason from Dick. Everyone seemed to remember the original handoff of the Robin mantle and knew Dick was better off as Nightwing, so...
I think it would be better if they had keept the part where Dick chooses to outgrow Robin and Jason tries a different name before having Dick permission, like in the first part Bruce is the one who gets hurt "cause Dick was busy with the Titans and blew him off and after that Dick realizes that he cannot keep the two functions at the moment so he quits. Bratman starts to operate without a Robin and struggles, them we see the whole street kid Jason arc except while Jason wants to work with Bruce he is unsure about being Robin. Back in the batcava, Jason keeps trying to sugest new names and costumes to a very amused Bruce, but saying it like a joke, as he is still afraid of being casted away, until a visiting Dick sees it and says something like "what's wrong with Robin?" making an annoyed and embarased Jason confess he doesn't fell it's fair for him to steal Dicks title, to with Dick says "it's okay, while I outgrew Robin, I wouldn't really want it to die with me" Boom less hated Jason.
Late to the party but I feel having Dick decide to stop being robin so he could be his own person would put Batman in the head space of wanting back a younger robin making him more open to adopting Jason. It also avoids some replacement angst while still creating tension between dick and Jason. I just want a comic of the adventures of Jason and Batman when he was robin :(
Whether it is Jason Todd, Dick Grayson etc. I have never been a fan of Robin. I never thought of Batman as needing a moral compass or a softer side, his flings with Catwoman and whomever else should suffice. I did come to appreciate Grayson in the New Teen Titans. I just feel Batman is better off working alone.
Why was Robin called the boy wonder? Cause you wonder why Batman dressed that little kid in green panty hose and took him up to an abandoned rooftop at 3 in the morning.
I liked the origin but I dis liked Jason Todd he was ... violent. Honestly I thought he acted more like the joker than a bat man or a Robin and expected a reveal that he was the jokers kid up until damien was introduced.
We can't call him the bratty Robin anymore. That's Damian's title now.
I wondered about that.
Dick Funny/Charming Robin
Jason Crazy/Violent Robin
Tim Smart/Nerdy Robin
Damian Angry/Stoic Robin
@@WannabeWryter how about stephanie browne?
@@strawberrypeppermint4185 Stephanie Eccentric/Cheeky Robin?
@@WannabeWryter maybe "the forgotten robin"
I grew up with this Robin , he wanted an edgier and street kid watching his back lol.
I think people were too hard on Jason because they didn't know what it felt like to come from nothing, and just be angry because of all the loss in his life , they couldn't sympathize.
Also because he wasn't dick.
To be fair, pretty much everyone Batman meets has an extremely specific hyper fixation, it makes sense that he'd figure Jason Todd was really into stealing tires.
the jokers fixation is batman.
*cries in very happy Jason Todd fangirl*
I absolutely love this origin story. He’s bold, gutsy, brash and fearless. He sassed and the shucked a tyre iron at the most feared person in Gotham. How am I not supposed to love this guy?
I still will never get over the fact that Jason’s original backstory was that he came from an acrobat family that got murder called “The flying *TODDS* “
That’s so funny because:
A) Is such a cheap blatant rip-off of Dick’s backstory that more characters should be questioning HOW DID THIS HAPPEN TWICE?? That’s an oddly specific thing to happen twice and have the same result.
B) “The flying Graysons” works as a name for an acrobat family because the name Grayson sounds like a graceful bird soaring through the sky, *TODD* is your annoying coworker who steals food from the office fridge.
C) Not but really is such a blatant rip-off how did an actual writer got pay for that. Like why don’t you just redraw Dick’s debut comic with crayons while you’re at it???
Right , but don't forget the red hair either. DC desperately wanted a new Robin and was well if it ain't broke don't fix and repeated the same thing for Jason back then
lol I feel like the TODD coworker thing is personal. but yeah totally agree with your points.
@@amandak.5967 Maybe he (or she) watched The Office
@@amandak.5967 Idk, I feel it despite not knowing anyone named Todd.
You know, mafia killing acrobats is not something so odd in DC universe. Deadman was an acrobat killed by mobsters too!
I do think this was a better origin for Jason as Robin, being quite different from his previous Dick-lite intro. But it was just too soon after Batman sacking Dick. Had there been more time it could have been seen as Batman realising he'd made a mistake and correcting it, perhaps even involving Dick in the discussion. As it is it comes across as it would if Batman and Robin really were lovers - don't tell Wertham!- with Batman breaking up with Robin and swearing there was nobody else, only to turn up with a new boytoy the next weekend.
Poor form Bruce, poor form!
tbh, batman and robin dating is hella sus, but wertham taking that away from their time together rather than bruce being a father/mentor figure is even more sus.
"I found this kid on the street and I gave him your name."
A brutal summing up.
Also worth noting - this issue actually CHANGED the canon of Dick's transition to Nightwing, to have Bruce fire him. The Pre-Crisis version had Dick be the one who felt it was time to move on, stop being a sidekick, and create his own adult identity, which I personally think makes 1000x more sense than Bruce randomly deciding that having a 19-year-old partner is too unethical and then immediately taking in another kid. So it's like this issue purposely rewrote things to make Bruce look like as much of a hypocrite as possible, which I will never understand.
It gets even more confusing when Bruce and Nightwing have their fight a few issues later and Bruce is all I took him on cause I missed you. Which would have made more sense with the Dick just leaving backstory than the him firing him one. This one just makes Bruce look unstable...well more unstable than he has to lol.
@@CasuallyComics Exactly! It would have made more sense with the original backstory, and given both of them an understandable perspective in that argument - Dick could still legitimately be peeved that Bruce took on a new Robin (a persona Dick created, after all) without consulting him, but Bruce now has the legitimate counter-point of saying "Well, YOU chose to leave, so you don't get to complain that I found a replacement". It would've been much more nuanced and made Bruce's motivations a lot clearer, I think.
And then this Bat-Jerk take on their relationship was doubled-down on in later stories such as Nightwing: Year One.
I mean, seriously, I have no idea how nobody's mental gears caught the discrepancy between "No, it's too dangerous for a twenty-ish young adult man to be my side kick. Now, a boy half his age and with none of his training? That works for me!" to the point you have to wonder if the discrepancy was meant to be there. But if so, why? All it does is make Batman look like he's going batty. The story would flow so much better if Dick had left of his volition to become Nightwing.
I hated this retcon. In the original, Dick decided he'd had enough of being in Batman's shadow, he decided to step away. Making your own decisions is what being adult is all about. Now Bruce decides to send him away, which is treating him like a kid.
I originally thought Dick got tired of Batman telling him what to do as Robin. Dick was older now and argued with Bruce, thus leaving Wayne Manner to become Night Wing. I never heard of him getting shot by the joker , then having Batman dismiss Dick from being Robin before." Well, Robin, .....its just times have changed, and our old whimsical criminals are now becoming deadly. It's too dangerous to be Robin now, ....so old chum, I'm letting you go."
Personally, I like mixing both together. On one hand, Dick was growing restless in Bruce's shadow. On the other hand, he loved Bruce like family and broken as they both are, it can be very daunting to break away from the only thing you've ever known. Bruce and Dick are probably the most enmeshed of them all and find it incredibly difficult to function without each other, though they'd scarcely say it out loud.
And for Bruce, on one hand, he's well aware that Dick is getting older and becoming restless and struggling with his identity and independence. Bruce knows it isn't healthy to keep him tightly secured in his nest though he wants to. On the other hand, like many have said, Bruce may be genuinely concerned for Dick's safety and truly wants him out of the family business for a chance at a life of safe, average normalcy.
Of course Nightwing was born either way, leaving them both sort of bitter and uncomfortable with how they understood each other's choices. Though they still love each other, things are awkward: an emotionally stunted and worried father and his rebellious son who feels betrayed and is trying to find himself. I really get this vibe between them especially during the 1990s Nightwing solo run which I'm reading now. Good stuff.
As for why in the world Bruce picked up Jason on a whim like that, I think it was part genuine pity for another orphan and part his co-dependence on Dick or at least what Dick's role as his son and partner offered to him. I think he was still reeling from what happened with Dick and feeling guilty about his decision to allow him/encourage him to leave so easily. So Jason was both a selfless and selfish decision. Such are the complicated depths of Bruce and his personal relationships.
The name "Ma Gunn" will never not be hilarious and I'm so glad you made fun of it. :-P Overall I really like this origin for Jason too - definitely an improvement over giving him a carbon-copy of Dick's backstory. I do think a lot of how he's written here comes across as painfully middle-class, middle-aged writers trying (really badly) to evoke how a "street kid" would talk and act. But I think the passage of time has let that come across as more charmingly hokey than I probably would've felt about it if I'd read it at the time. Jason's 'tude does feel realistic, though - he's someone who's used to having to fend for himself, so the chip is understandable. Personally I like that that gives him room for growth, and sets up organic conflict between him and billionaire-since-birth Bruce. If the writers had approached it intelligently, they could have shown how Jason gave Bruce a vitally different perspective and helped him be a better crime-fighter through giving him a more real understanding of the lower-class. But sadly you don't see much of that during Jason's Robin years.
lol, calling it "Years" is honestly a stretch.
I always felt like his time as robin was only like 1 year.
"Meet ma gunn."
"Really, where is sh-
*gets shot*
Honestly? Love this origin. I actually enjoyed the twist that the school of Ma Gunn took in Red Hood and the Owtlaws from the Rebirth continuity. Since I haven't tracked as back as his second origin, I haven't read that issue, so this video gave me a renewed understanding of the narrative choices in the beginnings of Rebirth.
"He's been an edgelord since day 1." Wayne Family Adventures has the right of it.
It seems I finally found a Joker ship I can get behind: Joker x Diamond Necklace (I don't trust him with another human being). 😎
This is a more interesting backstory but Bruce telling Dick crime fighting is no place for a child and then almost immediately taking on another boy as a sidekick...maybe wasn't the best idea. Idk I like Jason even when he's rude and annoying and I get why he was disliked but I still think voting for him to die was extreme.
5:25 Vicki's pretty soulless in this comic apparently. Telling Bruce that he should feel guilty that his parents died on the day they died because his company makes weapons.
He was the Robin in Crisis on Infinite Earths. He has a few good scenes here and there but he's not front and center vs the Anti Monitor. He does work with the cool JSA Outsiders team that fight to rescue Earth X from the supervillains in COIE 9 and 10.
If we could have this origin of Jason Todd with the Bronze age reason for Dick Grayson leaving (wanting to be his own man, etc.) I think it would've been a lot better. I was too young to read the post-crisis Jason Todd stories when they were released, but I read the trades last year, and regardless of how people felt about Jason Todd in the late 80s, I really enjoyed him as Robin and found him to be the most engaging Robin.
I really like Vicki Vale later in pre-crisis (specifically when pre-crisis Jason had just become robin) she's awesome.... and then post-crisis there is this... rude person with her face.
Also on the origin thing: I can get over having robins 1 and 2 both being acrobats, even former aerialists- it does make sense for the role after all. But even though Pre-Crisis Jason's introduction, specifically how his parents died, was different to Dick's (they didn't fall, killer croc mauled them to death since they were investigating something for Dick) it's just not different enough. There are more ways to adopt a circus child then having his circus come to town and his parents dying while its there... and I honestly think that all the writers could have done better at the time. The problem, from what I can tell, is that "Robin" meant Dick Grayson, Jason (original acrobat flavor) was I believe the first (or at least one of the first) legacy character. Dick had to leave the batman book and go off and do things seperate from batman (with the titans) and the character of robin was necessary to Batman so they needed a new robin. However, since Robin meant Dick to everybody involved they basically made pre-crisis Jason Dick-Grayson-Lite-Blonde-edition in an attempt to not upset fans and suprise suprise, this upset fans.
They tried to rectify this post crisis and... People still wheren't happy. A massive part of me believes this is more due to the fact that they just disliked any character named "Jason Todd" on principle after what he was in pre-crisis.
I must admit though, that I'm rather biased as Jason Todd and Stephanie Brown are my favorite robins.
Oh and honestly DC: Flying Todds, thats the best you could do? Flying Foxes would have been better... (Todd means fox in old english)
English is not my 1rst language, but Aren't Flying Foxes a type of Giant Bats? (I mean that one would have been funny)
@@lesliecordova7394 I think so? But it wasn’t intentional I think. Todd (spelled t o d d in case you’re using a translator) isn’t recognizable to most native English speakers as meaning ‘fox’ though, since its LONG since fallen out of the common parlance (the words used in everyday life that are generally known and taught)
@@rivkaewinters2974 I just learned that from you (Todd meaning fox), but still, you are right, "The flying foxes" was a way better name with lot of implications.
And yes Flying Foxes are giant Bats (mega-bat, I believe I the correct word), and despite what Google and UA-cam try to sold me the first time, they are the most cutest bats that I have seen (online only, of course).
I wish that the pre- and post-Crisis origins could be combined. I like the tire theft over the acrobatic background, but I prefer the slower arc for the character that occurred in 1983-84, and I like how Dick felt some degree of guilt for Jay's predicament. I'm also in favor of Killer Croc as the main antagonist for young Jason instead of Two-Face. I really don't know why Collins changed that detail.
For me, the definitive Jason Todd was the one in Mike W. Barr's Detective Comics run, which existed in a kind of flux between the two versions of the character.
Do you edit the closed captions? When it went to crickets the CC read as ‘Dump her now you would be better off dating one of your rogues’ haha
Jason's early days as Robin was actually my introduction to not only Batman comics but comics in general. Prior to the '89 film, my only experience with Batman was the 1960s show and Hanna-Barbera cartoons. Christmas Eve that year, a relative gave me several issues that had Jason and Bats vs Ma Gunn and then vs Two-Face.
I always thought Jason was very cool as Robin . This dude always has Batman’s six . Yes he was ruthless but had some serious combat skills .
I believe this happened during Denny O'Neil and Jim Starlin's run on Batman. This is how he was drawn before they completely covered him in body armour. He also has the perpetual shadow on his mask. That being said, it was a good idea to change Jason's origin and make him distinct from Robin I. I didnt hate him, as I recall at the time.
Great video. I agree that treating “Robin” like a disposable franchise offended a lot of fans, and it made Batman look insensitive. It was obviously a marketing decision, but it didn’t work in this story line. I think the Bruce Timm Batman cartoon handled the transition better, though it still involved Bruce passing on the Robin identity without Dick’s approval. Pre-Crisis, they made a big deal of Dick doing so voluntarily and seeing Jason as a protege of sorts.
The irony is that they went to all this trouble to create a new partner for Batman and fans in general preferred he work alone. Jason would be killed less than 2 years after this story. Although a third Robin was later introduced, he didn’t work with Batman as regularly as the heyday of the Batman and Robin partnership.
I personally would’ve kept Dick Grayson as a late teen Robin and had him leading the Titans but working with Batman on special occasions -- as we saw in B:TAS. Something I liked about the dynamic between Batman and Nightwing in BATMAN AND HARLEY QUINN is that it’s like the senior partner/junior partner vibe from LAW & ORDER. That would’ve been my ideal way of maintaining the Bruce/Dick partnership.
The dilemma was the short pants. The classic Robin outfit looked ridiculous on a grown man. The Neal Adams revamped costume for Tim Drake was a vast improvement for a young adult Robin. I think if they’d just updated the costume, they could’ve kept Dick as Robin and avoided this problem all together.
I prefer it being like batman and dick work well together, but dick gets fed up and quits, so bruce desperately didn't want to feel alone so he rushed jason into things, which led to him being unprepared and dying, with him entering a depressive state and swearing off robin's, only for tim to come a light up his world, and helps him heal his relationship with dick.
Your Batman voice is, awesome!
Can we have a Jason Todd ship on the other channel? I don't even care which one. Nice job on this! I like how you explain things.
I adore Jason Todd with Artemis
Sasha, give us some Savage Sword of Conan!! And again your humorous commentary is very much needed
Oh man, those flashback scenes of young Jason in the Under The Red Hood movie. I'm not crying, it's just allergies.
Well you can't spell vicky without icky lol...but other than that great job 👍 breaking down the detail like always, especially with jason todd. Cause i didn't know that much about this second "robin" or jason at all as how he became robin. Before he became the badass that i known him now as RED HOOD 😎
DC: Jason he's the bratty Robin
* Damian Wayne has entered the chat *
Going to have to say, I like this origin for Jason Todd. It explains a number of things, including him becoming...
(Spoiler!)
The Red Hood.
I feel like everybody and their shot in an alley mom knows he's red hood.
@@ProjektTaku what... 😶
@@EuelBall sorry, meant red hood.
I think this is the first video i've watched of Jason's history where it dives into what led to Bruce meeting him and it is really awesome to hear. Also after listening to this again, I feel like Jason is Bruce's favourite kid at the time. Not sure which one is his favourite now but i do believe with all my heart that Bruce really ranks Jason above Dick at all times.
I still remember reading these issues as a kid on a bunk bed and buying every issue at the grocery store up until Jason Todd died ...it was the first run on Batman that I ever collected. This video reminds of seeing the 900 number in the comics where you called and voted if Robin died or not
Honestly, I preferred the ginger Jason Todd. It may have stretched credulity at times, but it made Mr. Grayson a part of the process and it felt more natural. If they had skipped the whole Dick getting shot and Batman firing him stuff, just had Dick being in the Titans, and then Bruce brings home another orphan who needs help, and has bat-balls the size of Argo City, and go through the Jason can't find a good name thing and Dick passes the mantle... essentially blending the best parts of both origins, it probably would have been best.
Still wouldn't help against Jim Starlin, though.
I love your videos! You have great explanations to some of the best story lines.
I can not wait to see what is next after every video.
PLEASE keep up the awesome work.
Your batman voice is awesome, I'm hooked.
“FINDIN”😂 🤣
I wouldn't call him the bratty Robin tbf, or even violent, the few times he was violent (Two face his father's murderer and Felipe the man who drew a woman to suicide, or an abusive pimp! ) and Jason during his post crisis run was a sweetheart! And he saved Joker before a year before his death..... But yeah, he was a good Robin, Steph got the same treatment as him sadly. Also funfacts, Jason was at the top of his class, a theater nerd, into Victorian era fashion and english! He was a nerd is what I'm saying, and he even believed Penguin reformed when Batman didn't, felt sorry for Two Face. So yeah, he wasn't a bad Robin, they dragged his rep (like steph) through the mud to make Tim look good
The 2 things that stands out most from what I've learned in recovery (7 years as of 01/24/2020, thank you) is that people can't control other people places or things and humans make mistakes 'cause they're only human). which means though out of character, Bruce's irrational logic regarding both Dick and Jason proves he's just another damaged person coping. before anyone says that his logic was not only flawed but his decisions were unrealistically fast, remember this simple phrase... because, comics!
"his logic was not only flawed but his decisions were unrealistically fast" As someone with abandonment issues, that's one of the most realistic things about it. Batman has the world's largest abandonment issues. Of course he immediately went whole hog with a new partner.
I liked him in the Superman Birthday story with Mongul!
Ah Bruce just casually adopting kids and making them Robin lol
Vickie Vale was Batman's girlfriend in the 50s and yes she was his Lois with all the Silver Age wackiness.
The writer of this story, Max Allan Collins, was the man who took over the Dick Tracy comic strip, removing much of the science fiction angle of the strip that had been appearing in the strip in the late 50s to the 60s. He took it over when Chester Gould retired. He killed off Moon Girl and had the Moon People leave Earth and never return again, nor mentioned again if memory serves.
Love your work!
Love your vids very informative and fun ax also love the ever changing hair.
Can we get a whole Vicki Vale video?
Can you do a video like this for Dick and Tim? And make fun of the silliness of their stories as well? Because it's really funny how people make fun of this story in these days and forget that it was a story from the 80s, so let's see how a character from the 40s like Grayson holds up now, and let's see how logical for Bruce to take another child and make him Robin after his adopted son was killed. Thank you for your great work BTW I love your channel
Dick was almost 20 and he was still wearing the shorts!!!!
bruce: you want a costume change, Dick? maybe get some pants?
dick: and hide all of *this*?!
I never understood why Jason's second origin story was hated so much. His original story was too much like Dick's that it hurt. Jason's second origin story is original which I love. I just never understood the hate.
Imagine if your dad came home with a random new child and started calling him by your childhood nickname. I mean if I was Dick I'd be pretty fucking pissed.
Maybe Batman's rational for Dick no longer being Robin was intentionally flimsy?
He calls Dick "son" when he asks if he can hang on, and perhaps that's not just an expression. Bruce raised Dick, and maybe he tried to retire him after that close a call for fear of loosing him. So, his rational is just a mask for his true reasons.
They actually adapted this story into a german Audiobook, The Apprentices of Crime.
Only there, the Joker is behind the school. Because in these Audiobooks the Joker was Batman's only Nemesis.
1:31 ummm...why is there a salt shaker in the upper right?
A good origin but maybe a bit too fast. It should have been stretched out over many issues before Jason would assume the mantle of Robin.
" I found it on the street, and I gave him your name" bwahahaha. This. This is how I should have patented
It should have been a thing for Jason Todd, him finding a way to make Bruce just breakdown and guffaw, have the biggest snicker ever, not all the time but just something so f**king bizarre that Jason Todd does and Batman just can't help it, he just busts a gut laughing his ass off, and maybe one time have Jason just get so incensed why Batman is laughing thinking he's laughing at him (maybe he is?) that Jason's mere asking of it just causes Batman to lose it even more that he just passes out from sheer laughter, of course have it p**s off Jason, and then just move on, back to the story, of course these kinds of moments don't neccessarily advance the plot but it does develop a kind of dynamic between Batman and Red Hood I think in a way that is unique to them, something say Batgirl or even the other Robins or THE JUSTICE LEAGUE would be envious of, a way to cheer up the most self loathing man in all of DC.
We and by we I mean ME, I want more of that in my batman comics, especially the darker stuff, imagine in The Joker War, or in Three Jokers, Red Hood causes Batman to laught uncontrollably, no joker gas nonsense involved just Red Hood, OR in Batman HUSH, Batman discovers that HUSH is Jason Todd by way of laughing at something HUSH did and suddenly he's "GASP JASON!!"
So...no one is going to comment about how at 5:48 Batman's cape is just out here doing *the most* while he's casually walking down the street?
Gr8 vid! I feel like you’re trying not to wake up your parents in the next room, why are you whispering?
I just watched the Titians Live action series on DVD. It did Dick Grayson transfer from the dismissed Robin to early Nightwing and Jason Todd's stealing Batmobile's wheels origin story too.
Jason had a set of pistols he took from ma Gunn's school after burning it down as red hood, they were called ma Gunn's discipline, they made an appearance in injustice 2.
Just thought I'd share
5:52 what kid would be dumb enough to try to steal tires from THE BATMOBILE?! This is rich
Sasha, not to be controversial, but do you know why DC changed Catwoman's race in Year One but changes it back. I get asked questions about it surprisingly often, but my channel is not about post crisis.
I like how the first panel is literally foreshadowing Jason’s death
I still have this comic.
Great vid
I'm going to be honest, and I know I'm in a small minority, but I never really liked Miller's Batman stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love dark, gritty Batman, because that's what he needs to be. I also love most of what I've read of Miller's other works. Sin City, especially. It just his work, in particular, has never felt like Batman to me. I don't know. Again, I know I'm very much in the minority on this one and I can't put my finger on exactly why I don't like it, I just...don't. I especially didn't like his Joker. Anyway, just my own deal
Rebirth adds more distance between the issues, so Jason is at the home for a few months and Bruce comes to visit him
So Vicky Vale was actually a character in the comics? I always assumed she was made up for the Tim Burton movie and then appeared in a few comics following that
remember when he tried to kill all the Robin's in Battle for the Cowl
I really like to think that Bruce called him Robin in the same way that parents children by the wrong name.
heck I like to I like the idea that he still called Jason, Dick, and Tim Robbin out, of habit .
Personally, I feel that they should have stretched it out for a few more issues.
For example, have Jason escape Ma Gunn and find Batman to give him a piece of his mind. Build him up more as someone who can hold his own with or without Bruce and have Burce realize his potential and how he treated Dick. When he confronts his former sidekick, Dick accepts his apology though admits he's moved on as Nightwing. Allowing Burce to adopt Jason.
I'm in the middle of the road when it comes to Jason Todd's origin. The first part is nicely set up and gives us the falling out of Dick Grason, a look a Crime Ally, Batman's humanity, and the ionic image of Jason stealing tires off the Batmobile. The second act is where things become a bit shaky, and Bruce adopts Jason after almost unintentionally screwing him over. As much as I like it, it DOSE make Batman come off as a hypocrite when compared to how he treated Dick.
Speaking of Bat Shark replant, easily worth the two seasons of watching the Harley Quin cartoon was the can of shark replant....
I’m a very simple person. I see Jason Todd. I click.
I know this is an old video so apologizes about the long comment but this has got me thinking that it would've been an interesting angle if Batman/Bruce firing Dick as Robin because he thinks Dick doesnt need it anymore
Because like, theres this general vibe that Batman takes on Robins to help them -
Dick is in the same place he is, his parents murdered in front of him and well Bruce became a hero and it helped him right?
Jason is in crime alley stealing tyres to survive and isn't it better to have him as Robin where his anger can be directed somewhere positive
Tim is the exception who become Robin to help Bruce (which i feel could be a really fun angle for the idenity troubles he seems to be having in canon atm hope they take it in that direction in urban legends)
Steph and Daiman have similiar stories as Jason - although even beyond being invovled in the world of crime they're invovled in the world of heroes and villians pre-robin
I feel like if Batman had fired Dick because it seemed Robin was negatively impacting him, that might have backed up this idea more. Like say Dick has a good social life outside of Robin but getting shot seems to make most of that collasp - because he has to heal and he cant tell anyone whats happened so basically he drops off the face of the planet while he heals and that puts strain on his social life and Bruce looks at this and decides 'Dick you shouldn't be Robin anymore because you dont need it, you should focus on your life outside of Robin'
Dick meanwhile is pissed that Bruce is making that decision for him, that sure Dick doesn't need Robin as a clutch to handle his guilt and anger but being a hero is something that's important to him, he wants to help people. Bruce wouldn't hear of it and so Dick leaves.
That even leaves room for how quickly Bruce takes on Jason as Robin - he knows he needs the back-up and he knows this kid needs help. It might even make him feel more confident because well, Robin worked for Dick didn't it?
I think that angle would have made Jason's death hit all the harder because then suddenly Jason's death IS the first real moment of consequences for children wrapped up in this world - at least in a way that clings tight to Batman.
I sold his other first appearance and then I found this one in my collection and I was so confused.
My memories of the time were largely sympathetic towards Jason. Consensus among fans I spoke with was it was a better origin and served to differentiate Jason from Dick. Everyone seemed to remember the original handoff of the Robin mantle and knew Dick was better off as Nightwing, so...
Teen Titans, the Menudo of superhero teams.
I can see why DC is pushing Catwoman as Batman's one true love with Vicky being like this. CHRIST
I have gone from indifferent to hating Vicki Vale.
I actually found issue 408 in my local shop, and it was in really good condition
I’m wondering how they would have got him out of the robin role for whoever his successor would have been.
Nobody:
Vicky Val: 7:31
You still awesome sasha
I loved original Jason Todd. He was ruined by post-Crisis.
So thats the origin of the batman who laughs...
I think it would be better if they had keept the part where Dick chooses to outgrow Robin and Jason tries a different name before having Dick permission, like in the first part Bruce is the one who gets hurt "cause Dick was busy with the Titans and blew him off and after that Dick realizes that he cannot keep the two functions at the moment so he quits. Bratman starts to operate without a Robin and struggles, them we see the whole street kid Jason arc except while Jason wants to work with Bruce he is unsure about being Robin. Back in the batcava, Jason keeps trying to sugest new names and costumes to a very amused Bruce, but saying it like a joke, as he is still afraid of being casted away, until a visiting Dick sees it and says something like "what's wrong with Robin?" making an annoyed and embarased Jason confess he doesn't fell it's fair for him to steal Dicks title, to with Dick says "it's okay, while I outgrew Robin, I wouldn't really want it to die with me" Boom less hated Jason.
So Ma was a member of the Foot Clan?
Still no mention of cookies or Jim Starlin....
Ma Gunn, equal to Ma ?????? in the 60s
Late to the party but I feel having Dick decide to stop being robin so he could be his own person would put Batman in the head space of wanting back a younger robin making him more open to adopting Jason. It also avoids some replacement angst while still creating tension between dick and Jason.
I just want a comic of the adventures of Jason and Batman when he was robin :(
why does batman think that it's safer for 10 year old child to be robin than an actual adult?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Whether it is Jason Todd, Dick Grayson etc. I have never been a fan of Robin. I never thought of Batman as needing a moral compass or a softer side, his flings with Catwoman and whomever else should suffice. I did come to appreciate Grayson in the New Teen Titans. I just feel Batman is better off working alone.
Bruce fired Dick and took on Jason as the new Robin an issue later? Wow.
I don't care who is Robin. Robin is a character I have always throughly loathed.
THE LIKE TO DISLIKE RATIO THO!!!
I thought Damien was the bratty Robin lol
Why was Robin called the boy wonder? Cause you wonder why Batman dressed that little kid in green panty hose and took him up to an abandoned rooftop at 3 in the morning.
Vicky Vale is Rachel Maddow on Batwoman. Reason why I dislike Vicky.
I liked the origin but I dis liked Jason Todd he was ... violent. Honestly I thought he acted more like the joker than a bat man or a Robin and expected a reveal that he was the jokers kid up until damien was introduced.
I prefer Post Crisis Jason. Pre Crisis Jason was just Dick Grayson with a different name.