I really appreciate your feedback on these tires, especially as I have run two of the tires on my car, a Nissan 370Z sport coupe. My second set of tires on the car was the Michelin PS4S, a great tire in all respects that got fantastic tread life. The only drawback for me was the soft sidewalls, which led to less precise steering, a more vague feeling in the steering and poorer steering response. My current set is the Michelin PS Cup 2(240). This tire handles much better than the 4S and the only drawback may be the tread life. If its lifespan is unacceptably short, I may try the Dunlop Direzza. One reason I like the Michelins so much is because of their lightness, leading to lower unsprung mass. This may be because of their use of Nylon and Aramid fiber in the belts instead of steel.
I have all my family cars with Michelin and in my Clio RS I've always loved the performance of the Pilot Sport. Such a good tire in every weather condition. I would like to try Nankang but I don't know which one would suit me more. I need a tire that performs well in the wet because where I live doesn't matter if it's winter or summer it always rains but I would like it to be good in the dry too
I have a set of 235/45/17 PSS's, and they're good tires but for something like autocross or drag, they arent because they take a bit to warm up. Switched over to 245/40/17 Kumho Ecsta v720s and they have vastly more cold grip. I havent got to really push them for an extended period to see how they handle heat, but so far so good.
Great video with some good insight, tyre pressure info would be good (region at least as will differ) but also good to know a bit more info on how suitable they are road wise as well to know if they are good enough occasional road use or pure track
Fantastic Review as always! What Tire would you choose for a Summer-only, but still daily car? E46 330i Touring in my case. mostly country roads and some backroad fun from time to time. sadly around 300km to the ring, so that doesnt need to be considered heavily. NS2R and the PS4 are priced basically the same, so which one would you advice? PS4 cause its a better allrounder or NS2R cause of the "Summer only" usage? Btw still holding you to building a sleeper touring ;)
Moved my GT3 road car from a CUP2 to a PS4S so it could be used through the winter, great overall but lost a little steering definition around center I felt.
How about the Avon ZZR? I have it on my BMW e30 LS3 fakeM3 (500hp/650nm), and i think is one of the best track tires! Oh, and the new set have a 7mm tread heigh, the rest of semi-slick tyres have only 5mm, so this is a big advantage for Avon!
A semi slick with too much tread starts to move around under you and that’s not actually a good thing:-). There is a reason the truly fast semi slicks are lower tread depth! I won’t argue that they’re an ok tire but I doubt one of the best :-)
Does the higher grip of those track tyres takes away progressiveness when the limit are reached? I do enjoy the car moving around a little and one thing that's stopping me from getting cup 2 are if they are snappier when they goes.
Robert, which Dunlop Direzza do you use? Here in the US, we have the Direzza Zll and Zlll! The thread design looks different from what you have on the video. Let me know. Thank you. By the way, I have a Jaguar Project 8. Which tire would you recommend? Thanks. Max
Robert what tires are you running on the Pista? The K1 PSC2R? And if so have you noticed any difference between the Cup2Rs for Porsche vs the Ferrari ones?
Man i just bought 4 medium grip Continental all seasons for my g35. The sidewall flex is absolutely horrible and ruined the handling of the car, makes it feel un predictable in turns. Will be getting different tires soon.
@@RobertMitchell yeah they have a lot of grip but feels like im going to de bead the front tires on turn in. Scares me. They are only 1 ply sidewall so thats why, but i didn't know this till i had purchased them unfortunately
@@RobertMitchell look forward to your opinion. They were used in the WTAC. Not the same beast as the Nordschleife, but still saw some serious load from some pretty extreme machines.
Hi Robert, I am running currently CUP2 on cayman GT4. Ordered new set of Trofeo R. IMHO these would be the two most street legal semislick people are driving on their sports cars. What would be the time difference with same car and same driver on these two tires?
Hi Robert, how big is the difference between the cup 2 to the ar1 in dry conditions. Is it worth to accept the worse wet performance for example driving it on track or in the rain back home?
As far as I know , michelin pilot sport 4S is not available in 18 inch but would you consider a michelin pilot sport 4 for street and occasional track use ? Is there a better alternative for the price and what would that be ?
Hi Robert, which tires do you use on the Apex GT86 during rainy days? Do you keep the Nankang NS2R or exchange with other? (No Michelin PS4S in 17' in Europe as far as I know)
Nick WithBeer They’re only really too soft, if the car is too heavy🤓 Some manufacturers build vehicle chassis dynamics, to use the tyre as part of the compliance in the suspension. It allows certain other engineering decisions to be made in the mechanical linkages and bushings. It can be a great way to create balance for a high performance road chassis, for even supercars. If you then want genuine lasting track performance, you know what to do 👀
@@DontPanicDear Yeah that's also true. But it seems more of a bandaid for a customer who THINKS they want performance, but really really just wants to be comfortable. Incidentally, most supercars typical customer, lol!
Robert would you consider the NS-2r a good all around tyre for a 1993 MX5 that is used 20% of the Time on the track? I also watched (and will also sait for the next épisode) the tyre pressure video, what about the side walls of this tyre? Is it a good starting pressure to use recommended pressure (1,8bars) when tires are warmed up? From my expérience at 28°C air temp, (ok track temp should make more sensé) the 4 cold 1,8b tyres all reach 2,1b After on lap. I Guess this is good outcome from my wheel alignment? Thanks for your feedback 🙂
Currently run the NS2R's and as you say great all rounder given its a focused track day tyre. Am tempted by the AR1's but do wonder how much difference they make on lighter, lower powered cars. Have you run both on the GT86? If so what are your impressions? Worth the increase in cost?
In my opinion (280hp gpunto Abarth) they are not worth it if you daily drive the car with them.. rain performance and longevity is worse on the ar1 but dry grip is better If you are only doing trackdays ar1 is the best choice
Ar-1 better then a052 on wet? A052 on wet is better then cup2. So ar1 is far behind on wet. www.trackdayforum.com/index.php?/topic/856-der-semislick-thread/&page=16" colesa.ru/images/upload-2016/mailru-summer-225-45r17-2019-nm5.jpg
Something about Robert's voice makes me feel like I'm learning something crucial and makes me feel fulfilled, I have no use for this tire knowledge at all but I love it! haha.
@@djremotion2 yh went from pzeros to ps4s way before saw this vid and it transformed the car completely grip levels were incomparable compared to the pzeros
I agree. Its all over the amateur scene with people who sponsor themselves. Definitelly thinking of buying them! Although I might go with the other Nankang thats better in the wet for that extra security because I like to be capable in all conditions.
I've got the NS2R on my GT86. After 2 solid track days and a year plus daily driving it's still got so much left in them. Amazing value for these and are fairly affordable too. Just has lots of road noise though but you can live with that easily.
The michelins are really durable looking at the performance. Had the same experience with the PS4 from Michelin (the more street than performance oriented version compared to the PS4S). Bought a set in 2018, did 40.000km at least with it, including 3 trackdays. My parents did 60k with a set on their family car. They are a bit more expensive than most other brands, but much more durable than my former experiences (bridgestone/pirelli/vredenstein). Your way of using tyres is very different to most 'normal' people, but it gives a good indication. Great video
I don't care about how well they keep of stored properly. Alexander is absolutely correct when they are on the car. Due to the pandemic, bad weather, etc.,, we lost or missed most of our local track days over the past year and a half. Most of the miles on my PS4S have been highway miles (to places like The Dragon) along with trips back and forth of the Cherohala Skyway. Halfway through their usable tread life, they are beginning to look dry rotted and cracked. The last set did the same on our other car. This is not at all new. Many of us have heard this from other drivers as well as tire shops. When I ordered the PS4S for my vehicle, the dealer asked how long they'd be on the car and then I think they would last more than 2 years. He said it was because even if they aren't worn out at the 2-year mark, I'll probably need to replace them specifically due to a known issue with Michelin tires, that they don't hold up long term. It's meaningless to me because I never get close to 2 years out of a set of summer tires. But let's please not pretend that shortcomings often exist even among the very best products.
Thank you for this, it was great to hear your thoughts on the PS4S compared to the NS2R. Both tyres I've run before (on road), and to be honest the NS2R was a lot more fun (if noisy >.< ). I'll be buying another set of NS2R again.
Is it possible for Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperCar 3R to come close to the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2R times? ua-cam.com/video/jP3tqOowM4A/v-deo.htmlsi=oGlu7JBaKxDxy9wh
Can we get any thoughts on the Toyo R888R? Even in a comment. I switched my 720S from a P zero to a Cup 2 and it was a massive improvement. Now I just switched to the R888R and while it does hook better for straight lines, I hate the way it handles compared to the Cup 2.
How many laps do you can run on the AR1? This is just a hobby and yeah you want to be as fast as possible. But there is also the pricing. The AR1 are reasonable cheap compared to the Dunlops or Michelins but how would you compare them in terms of longevity?
What car and how fast? I drive 50-60 laps on the e92 when doing 7:35-40 laps times. On something like the GT86 at 8:20-8:30 I’ll get 80 laps on the ar1. Doing 7:20-7:30 times in the f80 m3 w 4 people in the car 40 laps
@@RobertMitchell wow thanks for the detailed information. M346 here, so Im in the middle between E92 and GT86. I did 65 laps so far but in mixed conditions. Thanks!
Great content and very practical info that's hard to come by elsewhere. I appreciate your unbiased and fair comments, Robert. I have been running the Federal RSR for a number of years both on track and street. I too have experienced the dreaded split across the tire surface, but it never affected the performance - still, it's disconcerting. I have been quite happy with the performance and the durability on longer stints compared to regular P Zeros. However, once the temps get high the drop-off is significant. I run them on my Z4 Coupe with 265hp. They are very reasonable in the wet with acceptable ride comfort and noise on the street. The last set I ran only on the street and it lasted only 20K km due to the 2.5-3.0 deg camber. If I had swapped sides they would have gone 40K easy. They are so cheap though, that I can genuinely recommend them for street and track use. I will swap mine for a set of NS-2R, just to try out something different. Hope this helps someone...
Hi Robert! Love this type of content and has been following the happenings around the company for two years now. One thing came to my mind about this video, might be too specific, but would love to hear your thoughts about it if you have the time. I've been running a mild E36, full interior, all the good bits and pieces, but only around 190hp. I've been running NS2-Rs for two years and I've been loving the performance on it, though it quite degraded over the tire's lifetime. I am running 225/45 R17, so the top notch Michelin Sport Cup 2 /2R is not available in my size in my region. However, I could place my hands on Nankang AR-1, with 150% of the price of the NS2-R. In your opinion, would the AR-1 step the game up the game that much? When I can get it used, I am also running Hankook Ventus full slicks (half price of the NS2R), but I believe the AR-1 could not run those times, and I do not really expect it to. Thank you in advance and much love,
The best I can say is that I went from NS2R in 235/17 to ar1 in the same size on the GT86 in AR1 and just loved it. I think the tire would be amazing for you on an E36! I also think he speed differences between tires minimizes on the lighter cars.
Where are you from? In european union you can get pretty easily michelin pilot sport cup 2 in 225/45 r17 for 130-140 € shipping included.... In south america in Argentina I did manage to buy them too 2 years ago Question for Robert Mitchell, Have you always used nankang ns2r 180 treadwear or you have tried 120 (or the new race compound on ns2r) in apex cars/personal cars?
@@ihorprissiajnyi7204 You are right! I have checked it now as you've mentioned it, and I can buy it for about 165 eur, did not see it as an option before, so good tip Ihor, much appreciated! I live in Hungary by the way.
@@RobertMitchell I always saw many UK reg at the car park, even at Apex, and now? They making it almost impossible to go there. Why? I'm am really frustrated about it. My last lap is still the wet one with the Volvo, when I saw you in the Cayman GTS end of last year.
Mark Andella Which is somewhat ironic if one considers the situation in most continental European countries (the northern ones except Sweden... ah... screw it, the situation in Germany 🇩🇪) vs. the epidemic situation in the UK 🇬🇧 , though it improved lately...
When it comes to tire tech talk, you're the person I'd DEFINITELY listen to and would take advice from on which tires work or don't work very well. I'm extremely surprised you guys use Nankang tires. I've seen that name here in the States, but I've never seen or have ever heard of anyone using that brand. In fact, all of the Nankang tire offerings I've seen advertised here are cheap, normal, all-season, regular commuter car tires. I was surprised to just now learn about those AR1s, which I don't believe are sold here in the U.S. I had no idea Nankang offered track performance tires until seeing this video. Great content, man!
It’s a decent tire, but not quite as good. There will also be some new 18 inch size PS4S coming soon;-) If the the SS is the only tire in the size you need, I would say that it’s an OK tire to run for sure. Say on 18s for wet use or daily driver you’ll have fun
If you don't have the PS4S in your size, go for the PS4. I had both. (how ever on heavier cars it can overheat if you doing more laps and not watching the pressure)
Essentially, the PS4/S range was put in to replace the Super Sport. A lot of the sizes that continue in the PSS will have OE Fitment on something and need to cater to that for a certain time frame.
Have you ever tried the PS4S on the Mclaren 720? I'm considering them for all year run over the P Corsa even if the Michelin are not McLaren approved...
It really depends on what you do. If you don't track, on normal roads the MPS4S will blow the PZ4 and PZC4 clean out of the water. The issue with the MPS4S is when it gets hot. It is not a great track tyre. Both the PZ4 and PZC4 is better when hot, but most of the time on the road, it's not hot enough for that to be the case. That's also true for the MPSC2. Awesome track tyre, but you need to get it above 50c for it to open up and really start to hook. With my Pista on a road, the MPS4S is the more grippy tyre because it hooks like no other between 20 and 55 degrees C.
This video was super informative! I actually just drove the Nurburgring for the first time on June 13th 2020 and I loved it! I actually just picked up a set of NS2R’s this week for my car and how you explained it is exactly how I plan on using it. Drive to the ring, have good performance for my skill level and car, and be okay if it does rain 🤘🏼
Thank I for the sub and most important congrats on your first ring lap!!!!! Keep on those tires for a bit and later on you’ll look for a semi slick. What car are you running?
Robert Mitchell appreciate that man thank you! One of the coolest experiences ever. I’m running my Vr6 swapped mk3 Jetta I brought from Florida. It’s my first car and I got it back in 2011 so it’s quite crazy to now have it here in Germany.
Fascinating video - interesting to hear how you run separate sets of PS4Ss on the taxis so you can tally wet and dry laps separately. It’s little touches like that which show how seriously you take customer safety! One question (of many tbh), when you talk about “changing” tyres on say the E92 or the McLarens, do you always change all 4 corners or sometimes just the fronts? I run a rwd car on Cup 2’s and seem to be chewing through 3 front (specifically front left) tyres per set of rears. Am I doing something wrong?
Hey Robert, very good and informative video, but what about well known Federal 595 RS-R? Any experience? I'm looking for a decent track tire for my Fiesta ST150, and the 595 RS-R and NS2R are my favorites.. I don't need top performance but want them to last for a lot of laps and withstand lap after lap after lap.. I'm not doing Nordschleife only but also some small tracks and GP tracks.. Thanks and have a nice day :-)
This video is tiring.
Misha Charoudin “shit Misha says”...... “first bad joke of the day”......
Agree just seems to keep going around in circles
how tired are you?
Exhausting.
Отлично
No drama, No BS, just unadulterated opinion. Getting this kind of content from someone with this much experience is appreciated!
Another great video! Robert has a black belt in tire knowledge.
Awesome as usual Robert. Very interesting. The 4S has to be one of the greats for road cars with the excellent wet weather ability.
Thank you for the kind words. Agree. 4S is very versitile
I use the PS 4S on both of my cars on the ring (M4 and 991 GTS). Sounds like I do everything right.
I really appreciate your feedback on these tires, especially as I have run two of the tires on my car, a Nissan 370Z sport coupe.
My second set of tires on the car was the Michelin PS4S, a great tire in all respects that got fantastic tread life. The only drawback for me was the soft sidewalls, which led to less precise steering, a more vague feeling in the steering and poorer steering response. My current set is the Michelin PS Cup 2(240). This tire handles much better than the 4S and the only drawback may be the tread life. If its lifespan is unacceptably short, I may try the Dunlop Direzza. One reason I like the Michelins so much is because of their lightness, leading to lower unsprung mass. This may be because of their use of Nylon and Aramid fiber in the belts instead of steel.
What´s the worst tire you ever used on a sportscar? :)
I have all my family cars with Michelin and in my Clio RS I've always loved the performance of the Pilot Sport. Such a good tire in every weather condition. I would like to try Nankang but I don't know which one would suit me more. I need a tire that performs well in the wet because where I live doesn't matter if it's winter or summer it always rains but I would like it to be good in the dry too
Nankangs semislicks are good in dry but very poor on wet. Ns2r are good for the clio rs but don't expect Michelin performance under the rain
I have a set of 235/45/17 PSS's, and they're good tires but for something like autocross or drag, they arent because they take a bit to warm up. Switched over to 245/40/17 Kumho Ecsta v720s and they have vastly more cold grip. I havent got to really push them for an extended period to see how they handle heat, but so far so good.
Delicious that Tech Talk video!
great video Robert would have been interesting to have some sort of comparison on costs as well . Keep up the great videos
ns2r are extremely bang for the buck also. They're like 70€ in my size.
They are a wonderful bargain no doubt
Great video with some good insight, tyre pressure info would be good (region at least as will differ) but also good to know a bit more info on how suitable they are road wise as well to know if they are good enough occasional road use or pure track
Fantastic Review as always!
What Tire would you choose for a Summer-only, but still daily car? E46 330i Touring in my case. mostly country roads and some backroad fun from time to time. sadly around 300km to the ring, so that doesnt need to be considered heavily.
NS2R and the PS4 are priced basically the same, so which one would you advice?
PS4 cause its a better allrounder or NS2R cause of the "Summer only" usage?
Btw still holding you to building a sleeper touring ;)
Hi there, I am from Recife in Brazil, South America, and we love the Michelin pilot sport 4s down here...
Great tire!!!
Mk3 Smith got me here 😂
Well big shout out to mk3’smith
I'll tell him you said hey lol great vid btw
Moved my GT3 road car from a CUP2 to a PS4S so it could be used through the winter, great overall but lost a little steering definition around center I felt.
Yes there is always a bit of a compromise!
MPS4S in the winter on a GT3? Where do you live? My Lusso came with them, and below 6-7C in slight damp conditions they were dangerous.
Would love to hear more about the Direzza!
Love tyre tech videos - great info. Q: Why all the tin tops? And no Monos, Radicals, Caterhams?
Just not my style for some reason..... guess I need to give em a try
How about the Avon ZZR?
I have it on my BMW e30 LS3 fakeM3 (500hp/650nm), and i think is one of the best track tires!
Oh, and the new set have a 7mm tread heigh, the rest of semi-slick tyres have only 5mm, so this
is a big advantage for Avon!
A semi slick with too much tread starts to move around under you and that’s not actually a good thing:-). There is a reason the truly fast semi slicks are lower tread depth! I won’t argue that they’re an ok tire but I doubt one of the best :-)
Does the higher grip of those track tyres takes away progressiveness when the limit are reached? I do enjoy the car moving around a little and one thing that's stopping me from getting cup 2 are if they are snappier when they goes.
The grippy compound doesn’t so much imo but the stiffer sidewalls can!
The CUP2 are snappy when cold. Which they can be when you drive on the street on colder days.
What time differences are you seeing between the tires, given the same car and conditions? Maybe that's a good topic for another video.
I think we could do just that
Thanks for the great review Robert, can you tell me from which tire specialist around the ring you buy these tires?
Interesting video about tyres, would this lineup be the same for frontwheel driven cars?
That's some meaty tires
Have you tried the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersport, direct comp to the MP4S, Tyre Reviews rate it highly and said between the two there's not much in it.
I have not but wouldn’t be aGainst trying them
Quality content !
What about Advan Neova AD08R i runing 265/35/18 on M3 E92 and is very lights tyres.
While I totally understand safety > all, what sort of cost vs performance aspect do you consider as well?
Great information
What Tires you are running on the M2? I have Cup2 (19") on mine and quite happy for an allround tire with the occasional trackday use.
Ps4s on the m2 so it’s ready for all weather !
Hi, and what about the Direzza, A052, R888R and Ar1? What will be the Toyo's place and what is the lighter one, all in the same measure? Thanks
Have you had a chance to check out the new Yokohama a052? Or the even newer re71rs?
I’ve not but def not against trying them
Robert with some rubber
Robert, which Dunlop Direzza do you use? Here in the US, we have the Direzza Zll and Zlll! The thread design looks different from what you have on the video. Let me know. Thank you. By the way, I have a Jaguar Project 8. Which tire would you recommend? Thanks. Max
Robert what tires are you running on the Pista? The K1 PSC2R? And if so have you noticed any difference between the Cup2Rs for Porsche vs the Ferrari ones?
He mentions it in the video. Nankang AR1
Man i just bought 4 medium grip Continental all seasons for my g35. The sidewall flex is absolutely horrible and ruined the handling of the car, makes it feel un predictable in turns. Will be getting different tires soon.
Ahh. I hate not being happy w a tire
@@RobertMitchell yeah they have a lot of grip but feels like im going to de bead the front tires on turn in. Scares me. They are only 1 ply sidewall so thats why, but i didn't know this till i had purchased them unfortunately
@@RobertMitchell love the video's so far also. Great content man.
No Yokohamas?
No we don’t use them. Not against trying them tho
@@RobertMitchell look forward to your opinion. They were used in the WTAC. Not the same beast as the Nordschleife, but still saw some serious load from some pretty extreme machines.
Hi Robert, I am running currently CUP2 on cayman GT4. Ordered new set of Trofeo R. IMHO these would be the two most street legal semislick people are driving on their sports cars. What would be the time difference with same car and same driver on these two tires?
I would say that the Trofeo could be about 3 - 5 seconds faster on the Nürburgring and the cup2 will last longer :-)
Hi Robert, how big is the difference between the cup 2 to the ar1 in dry conditions. Is it worth to accept the worse wet performance for example driving it on track or in the rain back home?
If you’re driving home and what not I think the cup2 is the right choice. The ar1 is good but on the road hard and not so friendly in rain
Please Robert i would love to know your opinion of you and the team of the neovas ad08r and the news federal 595 rs-pro, thanks!
As far as I know , michelin pilot sport 4S is not available in 18 inch but would you consider a michelin pilot sport 4 for street and occasional track use ? Is there a better alternative for the price and what would that be ?
Hi Robert, which tires do you use on the Apex GT86 during rainy days?
Do you keep the Nankang NS2R or exchange with other? (No Michelin PS4S in 17' in Europe as far as I know)
What would be a real life difference in lap times between Cup 2R and Nankang AR-1 - the same car, the same conditions, the same driver?
Maybe 10 or so seconds would be a guess
@@RobertMitchell thts quite a lot. i thought it will be much tighter. thanks a lot and great work with this channel.
I've never found anyone who likes a soft sidewall in a performance oriented tire...so why do so many companies keep putting out soft sidewalls????
Something very interesting to realize is that a soft side wall like on a Trofeo Or Cup2 is very robust and has less chance of failing.
Nick WithBeer
They’re only really too soft, if the car is too heavy🤓
Some manufacturers build vehicle chassis dynamics, to use the tyre as part of the compliance in the suspension.
It allows certain other engineering decisions to be made in the mechanical linkages and bushings.
It can be a great way to create balance for a high performance road chassis, for even supercars.
If you then want genuine lasting track performance, you know what to do 👀
@@RobertMitchell no doubt. But that vague boat feeling on turn in or transitions is aggravating
@@DontPanicDear Yeah that's also true. But it seems more of a bandaid for a customer who THINKS they want performance, but really really just wants to be comfortable. Incidentally, most supercars typical customer, lol!
how well does the Federal 595 RS-R compares to the competitors?
Not sure. I’d need to test them!!
no yokohama A050?? 😕
These are just what we use!
Got any opinions on Continental for a street car that sometimes goes a bit over the speed limit? :p
Which tire is best to workout in the gym?
Of what we use... probably a rear cup2 from the Porsche 325/21. Biggest we have. Otherwise we’d have to hit the tractor supply
Question, you go through quite a lot of tyres during a season I assume, what do you do with them afterwards?
We pay to have them disposed of
Is nankang ns2r good for street also?
Does the Nankang AR-1 have left and right or is it the same for both sides?
they are he same for both sides!
great information thanks！
Robert would you consider the NS-2r a good all around tyre for a 1993 MX5 that is used 20% of the Time on the track?
I also watched (and will also sait for the next épisode) the tyre pressure video, what about the side walls of this tyre?
Is it a good starting pressure to use recommended pressure (1,8bars) when tires are warmed up?
From my expérience at 28°C air temp, (ok track temp should make more sensé) the 4 cold 1,8b tyres all reach 2,1b After on lap.
I Guess this is good outcome from my wheel alignment?
Thanks for your feedback 🙂
I wound for sure consider them in that case. Only downside is noise
I have Ns2r on my mx5 with 2 bars of pressure when warm, works well for street and track. They get loud on the street though
Currently run the NS2R's and as you say great all rounder given its a focused track day tyre. Am tempted by the AR1's but do wonder how much difference they make on lighter, lower powered cars. Have you run both on the GT86? If so what are your impressions? Worth the increase in cost?
In my opinion (280hp gpunto Abarth) they are not worth it if you daily drive the car with them.. rain performance and longevity is worse on the ar1 but dry grip is better
If you are only doing trackdays ar1 is the best choice
Ar-1 better then a052 on wet? A052 on wet is better then cup2. So ar1 is far behind on wet.
www.trackdayforum.com/index.php?/topic/856-der-semislick-thread/&page=16"
colesa.ru/images/upload-2016/mailru-summer-225-45r17-2019-nm5.jpg
I’d definitely watch three days of pure knowledge about tires.
tyres always look MASSIVE when theyre not on a car lol
Just like my peepee
@@ThundaAaAaAaAaAh same
considering he is standing and not sitting in the video
And somehow cars look smaller than in videos
I know right! I was about to write the same thing!
All the dudes in the background lmao
Alex Spitzner when they realized they were in the shot😂😂😂
They are all ordering more tyres
"We're on UA-cam!? Let's pace around to get on camera." 🤣
Something about Robert's voice makes me feel like I'm learning something crucial and makes me feel fulfilled, I have no use for this tire knowledge at all but I love it! haha.
Next time you get new tyres to your car, try something bit too expensive, a bit too premium and sporty. You will like it and understand it very fast.
It’s the emotion he carries with his voice 🤣
@@djremotion2 yh went from pzeros to ps4s way before saw this vid and it transformed the car completely grip levels were incomparable compared to the pzeros
Robert is the kind of guy you'd spend 3 days in a garage with, discussing rubber, and it wouldn't even feel wrong. Great video once again!
😂
Tyre pressure information would be super interesting
Yes absolutely!!
Yes !
Yes!
Yes that would be great!
Agree
HaHa Robert I see you felt the 'Pressure' to 'Tread' more carefully and not 'Spin' up the trolls. BOOOM! Take that Misha! Mike drop!
Lol.
@@RobertMitchell Misha ordered some Nitto NT01 tires from the USA awhile back, what car were they used on and thoughts on the Nitto NT01 tires.
A detailed video on the Nankang Ar-1’s would be great as there not a whole lot info on them
Direct competitor for AR-1 is a Federal FZ201. Similar sizes and prices
Not a lot info on them tho...
ive gone through about 10 sets of ar1s on the track and street great tyre for beating on. they stand up to abuse and put down decent times.
run great on low pressures as well, they are heavy tire but thats probably because of how thick that sidewall is.
I agree. Its all over the amateur scene with people who sponsor themselves. Definitelly thinking of buying them! Although I might go with the other Nankang thats better in the wet for that extra security because I like to be capable in all conditions.
Second
Robert, i really enjoyed the tyre tech talk and how structured you were able to point out pros and cons. Keep up with these great videos!
I've got the NS2R on my GT86. After 2 solid track days and a year plus daily driving it's still got so much left in them. Amazing value for these and are fairly affordable too. Just has lots of road noise though but you can live with that easily.
all semi's are loud, I lived with ar-1 in half stripped clio sport 2.0
Plese what compound do you drive? There are at least two availible and more coming... Thanks!!!
@@aczech12 I daylied my fully stripped c2 rally car with ar1‘s for 2 weeks, I’m glad I never have to do it again 😅
@@zdeneksimonik2247 softer is better
Thanks for showing us what tires you're using across your fleet and especially for the elaboration on each one of them. Very interesting, as usual.
You are more than welcome
13:37 video length.🙌
I agree, it was too short for real drivers.
You know a tyre analysis is OG level when members of N-Sync start strolling around in the background just for the swag.
Haha!!
The michelins are really durable looking at the performance. Had the same experience with the PS4 from Michelin (the more street than performance oriented version compared to the PS4S).
Bought a set in 2018, did 40.000km at least with it, including 3 trackdays. My parents did 60k with a set on their family car. They are a bit more expensive than most other brands, but much more durable than my former experiences (bridgestone/pirelli/vredenstein). Your way of using tyres is very different to most 'normal' people, but it gives a good indication. Great video
Michelin's also dry up and age very poorly. Old Michelin's, especially winter tires, gave me the scariest driving experiences ever.
@@PolishAlexx Anglais
Totally wrong! You only had to store them in the recommended conditions ...stop generalizing also it's really annoying
I don't care about how well they keep of stored properly. Alexander is absolutely correct when they are on the car. Due to the pandemic, bad weather, etc.,, we lost or missed most of our local track days over the past year and a half. Most of the miles on my PS4S have been highway miles (to places like The Dragon) along with trips back and forth of the Cherohala Skyway. Halfway through their usable tread life, they are beginning to look dry rotted and cracked. The last set did the same on our other car.
This is not at all new. Many of us have heard this from other drivers as well as tire shops. When I ordered the PS4S for my vehicle, the dealer asked how long they'd be on the car and then I think they would last more than 2 years. He said it was because even if they aren't worn out at the 2-year mark, I'll probably need to replace them specifically due to a known issue with Michelin tires, that they don't hold up long term.
It's meaningless to me because I never get close to 2 years out of a set of summer tires. But let's please not pretend that shortcomings often exist even among the very best products.
@ 5:23 the people in the background made me crack up haha, thank you for this informative video Robert!
We thought it’d be fun to show people in reception beging. Kind of shows some life:-)
Thanks Robert, exactly the comparison I was after without bias or Keyboard warrior BS.
Glad you enjoyed!!
Thank you for this, it was great to hear your thoughts on the PS4S compared to the NS2R. Both tyres I've run before (on road), and to be honest the NS2R was a lot more fun (if noisy >.< ). I'll be buying another set of NS2R again.
Appreciate how you just speak of your mind with just your knowledge & experience. Would love to watch one episode on Suspensions 🙌🏼
Thank you for the kind words. We can do a suspension one for sure
Is it possible for Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperCar 3R to come close to the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2R times?
ua-cam.com/video/jP3tqOowM4A/v-deo.htmlsi=oGlu7JBaKxDxy9wh
Being so rich you can review tire compounds is goals lol
I think I would actually enjoy the 3 day version.
Hehe
Do another review that includes , re71rs ad08r/ad09, rt6615k+, hankook rs4 . Thanks
To be the opposite of a tyre dealer is such a cool thing!
Great video and great choice. Love the Michelin 4S. Great as entry or daily driver tyre.
It is a wonderful tire
Can we get any thoughts on the Toyo R888R? Even in a comment. I switched my 720S from a P zero to a Cup 2 and it was a massive improvement. Now I just switched to the R888R and while it does hook better for straight lines, I hate the way it handles compared to the Cup 2.
Demons Souls?
99Lezard99 Yeeep. Excited for the reboot.
Damn missed it again. 6th
Come on Tom, pick up the pace son... :-)
I'd love to hear:
AR1 vs NT01 (grip and wear)
NS2R vs RS4 (grip and wear)
We don't have those Nittos here in Europe. But the interesting comparison is the Toyo R888R.
ive found ns2r pretty shit in the rain
How many laps do you can run on the AR1? This is just a hobby and yeah you want to be as fast as possible. But there is also the pricing. The AR1 are reasonable cheap compared to the Dunlops or Michelins but how would you compare them in terms of longevity?
What car and how fast? I drive 50-60 laps on the e92 when doing 7:35-40 laps times. On something like the GT86 at 8:20-8:30 I’ll get 80 laps on the ar1.
Doing 7:20-7:30 times in the f80 m3 w 4 people in the car 40 laps
@@RobertMitchell wow thanks for the detailed information. M346 here, so Im in the middle between E92 and GT86. I did 65 laps so far but in mixed conditions. Thanks!
@@RobertMitchell thats mega useful info, thankyou. Great content keep it up!
Do you have any thoughts on the Federal 595RSR?
At the moment no but there has been so much requests that I think I’m gonna have to try them
Great content and very practical info that's hard to come by elsewhere. I appreciate your unbiased and fair comments, Robert. I have been running the Federal RSR for a number of years both on track and street. I too have experienced the dreaded split across the tire surface, but it never affected the performance - still, it's disconcerting. I have been quite happy with the performance and the durability on longer stints compared to regular P Zeros. However, once the temps get high the drop-off is significant. I run them on my Z4 Coupe with 265hp. They are very reasonable in the wet with acceptable ride comfort and noise on the street. The last set I ran only on the street and it lasted only 20K km due to the 2.5-3.0 deg camber. If I had swapped sides they would have gone 40K easy. They are so cheap though, that I can genuinely recommend them for street and track use. I will swap mine for a set of NS-2R, just to try out something different. Hope this helps someone...
Robert Mitchell I like them but I don’t have much to compare to, be interesting to hear your thoughts once you’ve tried them.
Advan Ad08r get a good rating also.
Hi Robert!
Love this type of content and has been following the happenings around the company for two years now. One thing came to my mind about this video, might be too specific, but would love to hear your thoughts about it if you have the time. I've been running a mild E36, full interior, all the good bits and pieces, but only around 190hp. I've been running NS2-Rs for two years and I've been loving the performance on it, though it quite degraded over the tire's lifetime. I am running 225/45 R17, so the top notch Michelin Sport Cup 2 /2R is not available in my size in my region.
However, I could place my hands on Nankang AR-1, with 150% of the price of the NS2-R. In your opinion, would the AR-1 step the game up the game that much?
When I can get it used, I am also running Hankook Ventus full slicks (half price of the NS2R), but I believe the AR-1 could not run those times, and I do not really expect it to.
Thank you in advance and much love,
The best I can say is that I went from NS2R in 235/17 to ar1 in the same size on the GT86 in AR1 and just loved it. I think the tire would be amazing for you on an E36! I also think he speed differences between tires minimizes on the lighter cars.
@@RobertMitchell Much appreciated Robert and wish you the best! :)
Where are you from?
In european union you can get pretty easily michelin pilot sport cup 2 in 225/45 r17 for 130-140 € shipping included....
In south america in Argentina I did manage to buy them too 2 years ago
Question for Robert Mitchell,
Have you always used nankang ns2r 180 treadwear or you have tried 120 (or the new race compound on ns2r) in apex cars/personal cars?
@@ihorprissiajnyi7204 You are right! I have checked it now as you've mentioned it, and I can buy it for about 165 eur, did not see it as an option before, so good tip Ihor, much appreciated! I live in Hungary by the way.
Just bought a set of PS4S 19" and now they introduce the 2 weeks quarantine in the UK... 2020 just don't want me on the ring :(
So lame!!!
@@RobertMitchell I always saw many UK reg at the car park, even at Apex, and now? They making it almost impossible to go there. Why? I'm am really frustrated about it. My last lap is still the wet one with the Volvo, when I saw you in the Cayman GTS end of last year.
Swim across the channel and get over here
@@behindthen0thing That's not the problem. I can go out but when I coming back they lock me down for 2 week...
Mark Andella Which is somewhat ironic if one considers the situation in most continental European countries (the northern ones except Sweden... ah... screw it, the situation in Germany 🇩🇪) vs. the epidemic situation in the UK 🇬🇧 , though it improved lately...
lol that left one is toasted .. nice work whoever did that
Yes we didn’t leave much of the cup2r hehe
When it comes to tire tech talk, you're the person I'd DEFINITELY listen to and would take advice from on which tires work or don't work very well. I'm extremely surprised you guys use Nankang tires. I've seen that name here in the States, but I've never seen or have ever heard of anyone using that brand. In fact, all of the Nankang tire offerings I've seen advertised here are cheap, normal, all-season, regular commuter car tires. I was surprised to just now learn about those AR1s, which I don't believe are sold here in the U.S. I had no idea Nankang offered track performance tires until seeing this video. Great content, man!
The NS2R has multiple treadwear options. Which one are you using? 180 street /120 track / 100/80 race?
Tell please Trofeo R need to heat for having grip?
Bridgestone RE71R is fast and cheap, way faster than the Nanking and it is not an R rated tire so it’s street legal.
R compound is street legal. I’d have to try the Bridgestone to believe if it was faster than that
Nice video. Do you know how the Pilot Super Sport is doing in comparison to the PS4S? There are a lot of 18" sizes the PS4S is not available...
It’s a decent tire, but not quite as good. There will also be some new 18 inch size PS4S coming soon;-) If the the SS is the only tire in the size you need, I would say that it’s an OK tire to run for sure. Say on 18s for wet use or daily driver you’ll have fun
If you don't have the PS4S in your size, go for the PS4. I had both. (how ever on heavier cars it can overheat if you doing more laps and not watching the pressure)
Essentially, the PS4/S range was put in to replace the Super Sport. A lot of the sizes that continue in the PSS will have OE Fitment on something and need to cater to that for a certain time frame.
UA-cam doesn't deserve your informative and straight to the point content. Hats off to you Robert.
Haha thx!
Have you ever tried the PS4S on the Mclaren 720? I'm considering them for all year run over the P Corsa even if the Michelin are not McLaren approved...
It really depends on what you do. If you don't track, on normal roads the MPS4S will blow the PZ4 and PZC4 clean out of the water. The issue with the MPS4S is when it gets hot. It is not a great track tyre. Both the PZ4 and PZC4 is better when hot, but most of the time on the road, it's not hot enough for that to be the case. That's also true for the MPSC2. Awesome track tyre, but you need to get it above 50c for it to open up and really start to hook. With my Pista on a road, the MPS4S is the more grippy tyre because it hooks like no other between 20 and 55 degrees C.
This video was super informative! I actually just drove the Nurburgring for the first time on June 13th 2020 and I loved it! I actually just picked up a set of NS2R’s this week for my car and how you explained it is exactly how I plan on using it. Drive to the ring, have good performance for my skill level and car, and be okay if it does rain 🤘🏼
I also subbed to your channel and I’d love to meet you if possible next time we come out to the ring
Thank I for the sub and most important congrats on your first ring lap!!!!! Keep on those tires for a bit and later on you’ll look for a semi slick. What car are you running?
Robert Mitchell appreciate that man thank you! One of the coolest experiences ever. I’m running my Vr6 swapped mk3 Jetta I brought from Florida. It’s my first car and I got it back in 2011 so it’s quite crazy to now have it here in Germany.
Fascinating video - interesting to hear how you run separate sets of PS4Ss on the taxis so you can tally wet and dry laps separately. It’s little touches like that which show how seriously you take customer safety!
One question (of many tbh), when you talk about “changing” tyres on say the E92 or the McLarens, do you always change all 4 corners or sometimes just the fronts? I run a rwd car on Cup 2’s and seem to be chewing through 3 front (specifically front left) tyres per set of rears. Am I doing something wrong?
title needs more ?!?!?!?!?!
I could add some
Hey Robert, very good and informative video, but what about well known Federal 595 RS-R? Any experience? I'm looking for a decent track tire for my Fiesta ST150, and the 595 RS-R and NS2R are my favorites.. I don't need top performance but want them to last for a lot of laps and withstand lap after lap after lap.. I'm not doing Nordschleife only but also some small tracks and GP tracks.. Thanks and have a nice day :-)
Michelin Pilot Sport best tyre I used so far, but damn expensive. I also switched from a 17" 35 to a 16" 45 which impacted the ride comfort very much
The PS4S really are superb in the wet. Best road tyres for a performance car here in the UK (where it's always raining!)
100-% agree!!!! Love it in the wet
Thank you, very helpful! The AR-1 seems to be the best bang for the buck, right?
It very well could be!!!
perf/price I would say NS-2R, but it has bit less dry grip so AR-1, so not fully comparable, another category