First of all, your 3D graphics to explain your point is brilliant, well done. Transducer Angle to Transom (TAT) is something I am very aware of on my USV's, in fact, the entire design of my USV (AIMy) was based around TAT. While the coin concept worked for many that had just horrible TATs, I agree, it is not a solution for everyone as "slightly down" is certainly the ticket. A very quick and easy 'on the water' test is to idle over some fish on a wide cone angle such as 83kHz for Lowrance/Simrad users to check your arches. If the arch is slightly longer on the left then it is 100% in my opinion as it is slightly down. A perfectly equal arch I would give 80% and a longer right side arch ... 0%, get the boat out of the water now and fix it!
Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment. I agree that transducer angle to transom is imporant. Crazy that garmin doesn’t have any of this info in the installation manual.
I think you hit on a very important point on transducer leveling. I want to add to the idea of pointing the transducer down a little bit. The sides of the signal cone being emitted are the 1/2 power points. It takes time for the echo to be received back to the transducer. Because of the time delay, when the transducer is level, the boat moves and the echo received back from each ping is near the 1/2 power point. This echo is also smudged by random reflections occurring at the 1/2 power point vicinity of the cone. Tilting the transducer down a little will allow the ping to be sent forward slightly allowing the boat to be in the full power reflection point of the echo on each ping. If this idea is correct, then there would be an optimum speed for the boat for a given depth and angle setting of the transducer. The optimum speed would be the speed that gives the best clarity. This is something to experiment with.
You did a great job here! This is exactly the conclusion I came to simply using trial and error. I tried the coin leveling thing and the result for me was terrible.
Same here with my Humminbird 15" Gen3 MEGA. I coin level it and found the fish/structure returns and shadows underwhelming so I pointed the transducer down like you, and found an overall much improved image.
Not sure on this yet . I set mine up and tilted the back of the transducer up quite a bit to compensate for the motor. I had an image on side view and traditional that would rival any advertisement or high end install. Without really knowing much about the unit and limited time I had to do the rest from my garage. After dropping the transducer slightly but then adjusting to the coin leveling on the water method. The transducer angle came down from the back tipped up to closer looking level. My screens have not looked as clear to date and I am still tweaking .
Yeah in my experience transducer installation is not a "one size fits all". I think the most important thing is to install the transducer away from turbulence and the side of the outboard. In a perfect world, a slight down angle will give you better images but I know every situation is different.
@fishOclock89 thanks mate, I have a Solix G3 SI unit. I wasn’t having any real issues at 10km/hr but it did not track bottom very well above that speed. My SI transducer was initially set around +5 from level on the trailer. After I saw your video I thought I’d do some testing. I set my SI transducer at level on the trailer then I tilted the transducer at -5 degrees. I was surprised I could easily track bottom at 30km/hr in 2D and although my SI washed out at that speed my side image seemed clear at mapping speeds 5-10km/hr. Approximately a 10 degree adjustment made a significant difference. I’d call that method uncomplicated and an improvement 👍🏻 I’m not sure about the coin method, I am a little less complicated type hahaha.
Thanks for the comment. Thats a good way to put it. It is a trade off. If you have a high speed transducer or a thru-hull transducer you can still keep bottom signal when you get on plane and receive the best side images.
Coin leveling has always been inaccurate. All installations are impacted by weight and balance of the boat. Full fuel or 1/4 tank? One occupant or two? Loaded with the same waight in the same locations each time? We shoot for the best "average'. A slight down angle on the rear of the transducer provides a smoother water flow over the face of the transducer's sonar windows. Great graphics..
What instrument do you use to first determine that your transducer is level (to what) and how and with what do you use to measure the ten degrees down? Picture would help this visual learner. Well done
Any ideas why my side imaging stopped showing the dark area down the miidle that should be the depth of the water I'm in. Meaning my whole screen, no matter what depth of water I'm in looks like it would if you were like in a foot of water. This just started happening.
If it's a Humminbird finder, check to see if you're in "contour mode", which removes the water column and just shows the bottom without the dark area (water column)
the coins are used as an offset to account for the angle the boat takes on when its under power. after you take your baseline measurement with the coins stacked under the level when you put the boat on the trailer you mimic the angle the boat takes on when its under power by using the same number of coins and a level and you essentially move your trailer up until the boat is at that exact same level. than you level out the transducer at that point. Not sure if I explained it correctly or not, I know its a bit confusing. let me know if this helps clear things up.
I adjusted my transducer until my fish arches appeared level on my graph's display. I also mounted my transducer as far away from the boat center line as possible which reduces ping blockage from the motor. My transducer is pointing at an angle of 3 degress higher at the back of the transducer than the front. My side imaging works great both to the right and left. If you install your transsucer where any part of it extends below the hull bottom you are only asking for trouble. Transducers can be damaged if they strike floating objects in the water at faster speeds. Not worth the risks to me.
I've always have my transducer about 5mm to 10mm down I've never have my transducer level when planning you get the signal almost in center of boat and when just fishing drifting the fish and lumps or objects are almost in center of under the boat I've tested in shallow water were it picks up its pretty much spot on when angled down my pop back in the early nineties told me this always have slight tilt down not level and since this I've always have good luck
I always say “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”. Also my simulation only shows that in perfect conditions without the effect of the wake or other sources of noise a slight forward tilt is optimal. For some people depending on the boat they have and the design of the hull and the wake a forward tilt may not work best.
That’s what I thought at first but the lines corresponded with the boat going up and down on the waves. I was running my clearvu on 810 kHz and my side imaging on 1120 so I don’t think it should interfere
I disagree with this video and any transducer video talking about proper transducer placement. Optimal placement is going to be different for everyone unless you have the same boat to weight ratio and placement. You don’t take into account the weight of the boat - full tank of gas / three quarter / half, tackle, how many people on the boat, etc. This will affect the ducer placement regardless of any leveling to the ducer. Trimming also affects the angle of the ducer. Too high and your bow raises which will angle your ducer down…. Too low and you start to level the boat, but you may start to see interference w/ the lower unit which will DEFINITELY impact images…. There’s too many variables. In the end, you’re never going to have the ‘BEST’ angle anyway so there’s really no point to these videos lol.
I own two livescopes and several chart plotters. I can promise you to a real fisherman a regular sonar and graphs is absolute money over livescope in the real world.
Thanks for all the time invested into this. I got my trans level with how the boat sits in the water. From the coin level. Works good for mine.
First of all, your 3D graphics to explain your point is brilliant, well done. Transducer Angle to Transom (TAT) is something I am very aware of on my USV's, in fact, the entire design of my USV (AIMy) was based around TAT. While the coin concept worked for many that had just horrible TATs, I agree, it is not a solution for everyone as "slightly down" is certainly the ticket. A very quick and easy 'on the water' test is to idle over some fish on a wide cone angle such as 83kHz for Lowrance/Simrad users to check your arches. If the arch is slightly longer on the left then it is 100% in my opinion as it is slightly down. A perfectly equal arch I would give 80% and a longer right side arch ... 0%, get the boat out of the water now and fix it!
Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment. I agree that transducer angle to transom is imporant. Crazy that garmin doesn’t have any of this info in the installation manual.
I think you hit on a very important point on transducer leveling. I want to add to the idea of pointing the transducer down a little bit. The sides of the signal cone being emitted are the 1/2 power points. It takes time for the echo to be received back to the transducer. Because of the time delay, when the transducer is level, the boat moves and the echo received back from each ping is near the 1/2 power point. This echo is also smudged by random reflections occurring at the 1/2 power point vicinity of the cone. Tilting the transducer down a little will allow the ping to be sent forward slightly allowing the boat to be in the full power reflection point of the echo on each ping. If this idea is correct, then there would be an optimum speed for the boat for a given depth and angle setting of the transducer. The optimum speed would be the speed that gives the best clarity. This is something to experiment with.
You did a great job here! This is exactly the conclusion I came to simply using trial and error. I tried the coin leveling thing and the result for me was terrible.
Thanks for the comment. Yes it seems garmin units require a lot of trial and error to get a perfect image.
Same here with my Humminbird 15" Gen3 MEGA. I coin level it and found the fish/structure returns and shadows underwhelming so I pointed the transducer down like you, and found an overall much improved image.
don't care if your right or who the hell is right on transducer angles but damn good job on the simulator. thumbs up just for that alone.
Thank you!
Not sure on this yet . I set mine up and tilted the back of the transducer up quite a bit to compensate for the motor. I had an image on side view and traditional that would rival any advertisement or high end install. Without really knowing much about the unit and limited time I had to do the rest from my garage. After dropping the transducer slightly but then adjusting to the coin leveling on the water method. The transducer angle came down from the back tipped up to closer looking level. My screens have not looked as clear to date and I am still tweaking .
Yeah in my experience transducer installation is not a "one size fits all". I think the most important thing is to install the transducer away from turbulence and the side of the outboard. In a perfect world, a slight down angle will give you better images but I know every situation is different.
@fishOclock89 thanks mate, I have a Solix G3 SI unit.
I wasn’t having any real issues at 10km/hr but it did not track bottom very well above that speed. My SI transducer was initially set around +5 from level on the trailer.
After I saw your video I thought I’d do some testing. I set my SI transducer at level on the trailer then I tilted the transducer at -5 degrees.
I was surprised I could easily track bottom at 30km/hr in 2D and although my SI washed out at that speed my side image seemed clear at mapping speeds 5-10km/hr.
Approximately a 10 degree adjustment made a significant difference.
I’d call that method uncomplicated and an improvement 👍🏻
I’m not sure about the coin method, I am a little less complicated type hahaha.
Thanks for the comment. Thats a good way to put it. It is a trade off. If you have a high speed transducer or a thru-hull transducer you can still keep bottom signal when you get on plane and receive the best side images.
Coin leveling has always been inaccurate. All installations are impacted by weight and balance of the boat. Full fuel or 1/4 tank? One occupant or two? Loaded with the same waight in the same locations each time? We shoot for the best "average'. A slight down angle on the rear of the transducer provides a smoother water flow over the face of the transducer's sonar windows. Great graphics..
Thanks for the comment and the like. Couldn’t have said it better myself!
What was the angle of your transducer in the before test? Was it 10 degrees? It looks further down than that.
It was a bit more than that. I ended up putting it lower to compensate for the affect of the lower unit.
What instrument do you use to first determine that your transducer is level (to what) and how and with what do you use to measure the ten degrees down? Picture would help this visual learner. Well done
Any ideas why my side imaging stopped showing the dark area down the miidle that should be the depth of the water I'm in. Meaning my whole screen, no matter what depth of water I'm in looks like it would if you were like in a foot of water. This just started happening.
If it's a Humminbird finder, check to see if you're in "contour mode", which removes the water column and just shows the bottom without the dark area (water column)
When you set a 10 degree down angle I assume that is on land and using an iPhone or the like to zero being transducer level then -10?
the coins are used as an offset to account for the angle the boat takes on when its under power. after you take your baseline measurement with the coins stacked under the level when you put the boat on the trailer you mimic the angle the boat takes on when its under power by using the same number of coins and a level and you essentially move your trailer up until the boat is at that exact same level. than you level out the transducer at that point. Not sure if I explained it correctly or not, I know its a bit confusing. let me know if this helps clear things up.
I adjusted my transducer until my fish arches appeared level on my graph's display. I also mounted my transducer as far away from the boat center line as possible which reduces ping blockage from the motor. My transducer is pointing at an angle of 3 degress higher at the back of the transducer than the front. My side imaging works great both to the right and left.
If you install your transsucer where any part of it extends below the hull bottom you are only asking for trouble. Transducers can be damaged if they strike floating objects in the water at faster speeds. Not worth the risks to me.
I've always have my transducer about 5mm to 10mm down I've never have my transducer level when planning you get the signal almost in center of boat and when just fishing drifting the fish and lumps or objects are almost in center of under the boat I've tested in shallow water were it picks up its pretty much spot on when angled down my pop back in the early nineties told me this always have slight tilt down not level and since this I've always have good luck
Thanks for watching and for the comment. I have observed the same !
How does a slight down angle affect clear vue and standard down imaging?
That’s a good question. I don’t think it impacts it too much. I think on 2d sonar it makes the arches a bit shorter and no effect on clearvu.
Yeah. But what about getting readings while at speed on plane?
GREAT video. Thank you
Great video
Thanks for watching and for the comment!
Hair
????
Left the chat.
😅
Sweet combover 😂
Hair is doing an experiment with 360 Imaging
Came to the comments for this one lol
Coin trick worked on my boat// A comb forward doesnt help
I always say “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”. Also my simulation only shows that in perfect conditions without the effect of the wake or other sources of noise a slight forward tilt is optimal. For some people depending on the boat they have and the design of the hull and the wake a forward tilt may not work best.
Hmm I thought angling your transducer down thet much would result in some rooster tailing water??
Depends on how you have the transducer installed. On my boat it didn’t cause this issue but on someone else’s boat it might.
Those lines are more than likely from your di being on the same frequency as your si. Around the 2 min 30 sec.
That’s what I thought at first but the lines corresponded with the boat going up and down on the waves. I was running my clearvu on 810 kHz and my side imaging on 1120 so I don’t think it should interfere
I disagree with this video and any transducer video talking about proper transducer placement. Optimal placement is going to be different for everyone unless you have the same boat to weight ratio and placement. You don’t take into account the weight of the boat - full tank of gas / three quarter / half, tackle, how many people on the boat, etc. This will affect the ducer placement regardless of any leveling to the ducer. Trimming also affects the angle of the ducer. Too high and your bow raises which will angle your ducer down…. Too low and you start to level the boat, but you may start to see interference w/ the lower unit which will DEFINITELY impact images…. There’s too many variables. In the end, you’re never going to have the ‘BEST’ angle anyway so there’s really no point to these videos lol.
That’s what this video is talking about. Did you even watch it ?
He is saying that leveling is bs
Hummingbird recommend 5° down
I didn’t know this thanks for sharing! Makes sense. Garmin does not say anything in their installation instructions about angling it down.
How can you take a guy seriously that doesnt even own a comb
He should just shave it
I can immediately tell you're a dick.
So who's the Einstein with crazy hair here .... and ..... who's the dummy using judgemental visual reasoning??
If you have it at an angle your depth reading will be off
Level on the trailer does not equal level on the water. Also, different speeds will cause your boat to ride at different angles.
Very interesting. I’ll be trying it.
Yes. Ignore the manufacturers and don’t level your transducer for best performance. Haha.
Garmin installation manual does not say to level the transducer and neither do any of the other manufacturers. "the coin trick" was made up on UA-cam.
@@FishOclock89 static.garmin.com/pumac/Transom_Mount_Transducer_Install_EN-US.pdf
2d sonar sux just buy livescope
I own two livescopes and several chart plotters. I can promise you to a real fisherman a regular sonar and graphs is absolute money over livescope in the real world.
Oh I see the problem. You're using a Garmin unit. That's your problem. Switch to a Simrad, you'll be much happier.
I have heard good things but aren’t they really expensive?
@FishOclock89 Na, no different than the others. I had Garmin for testing, and then I returned it and switched to Simrad.