It is important to remember that while LiFePO4 batteries cannot be charged below freezing, they CAN be used/discharged below freezing. Further, using your batteries will cause them to generate heat internally. So in cold weather, it can be useful to have thermal insulation around your batteies to hold in the heat. Further, there are heating mats that are sold to keep RV water tanks from freezing that can be used to jerry rig a battery heater. They only have to be heated to above freezing. These solutions are not nearly as convenient as built in heaters, but can be made to work.
Perfectly timed. I just woke up from an overnight in my SUV rig that got right down to freezing. (I was totally toasty with two 20° bags and insulated pad) and would have totally plugged my batteries into charge because I forgot you taught us Don't charge them below freezing.". Thank you!
Bob, did you buy more than 1 battery? The cost would be 2 times as much but you would have 400ah of charge to run just about everything! Love your reviews! Lately you have shown many great products to help us make wise choices. I have special needs for my van, CPAP, power chair charging, wheelchair lift, AC, heating, so I have to have enough to get me through the night. I will upgrade sometime in the future to lithium. Luckily I charge my batteries from my van engine, I must say that should be a priority in a power system for RV. If the sun isn’t out, drive your van to town or your next camping site that’s what I do. It’s one of the cheapest solutions to battery charging. Thank you for sharing your findings on all the stuff you need to go boondocking and beyond. Can’t wait for your next video! Thanxz
Great vid Bob. I recently bought 2 of these AT 200ah self heating batteries. After some research, and I could be wrong about this, but these batteries wait for power to come in, either solar or ac and then checks the temp. If the temp is too low the power coming in is used for heating the battery. Once a threshold is reached the power then charges the battery. Seems like I read that the startup heating process is at 41 degrees and shutoff is in the 50s. I like this arrangement much better that the self heating Battleborn batteries. They have a wire and switch where you can manually turn the heat on or off. The disadvantage is that the heat is generated by the battery rather than incoming power. If you forget to cut it off it continues to use battery power to heat the battery whether its needed or not. Again, tongue in cheek on all this. Do your own research. Keep up the good work.
The BattleBorn approach to has advantages and disadvantages as does the AmpereTime (LiTime now) approach. The BB approach has an advantage in that someone who’s solar can’t provide 20 amps of current can still get their batteries warm enough to charge. Without those 20 amps of charging current coming in the LiTime batteries heating feature will not fire up.
Thank you for all the knowledge you give us! Even after years of watching videos about solar batteries, I had no idea they could not be charged if their temperature was below freezing.
I have been watching your videos for awhile bob, You have motivated and showed me you dont need the fancy things like a house in life, Im 21 and Im planning on getting my license and a car/van to move into, Your my motivation 🙏🤍
LifePo batteries have ahigher and a much more stable voltage as well. When powering an inverter, that is a big advantage. You can use the full capacity vs a lead based battery that will have such bad voltage drop that you can barely use half it's capacity. They charge faster, they last longer, they weigh less and the cost less.
Just found your channel, I'll be homeless coming this January landlord is raising the rent and being on a fixed income I can't afford it. Ok I have a 1962 ford f100 pickup short bed. First, I need to find a camper for my truck, and I hope by watching your videos you can help me out. I get my SSI (not much) so at least I have some kind of income. I still have a couple of months to get my stuff in storage and then go find a camper shell, not cheap here in S. California.
Yep, at current LiFePO4 battery prices (AKA LFP or Lithium Iron Phosphate), it just doesn't make sense to by older lead chemistry batteries. And LFP batteries are so much better in so many ways. I compiled a list of all the advantages I could identify a while back. Here's my summary of all 16 of the advantages I have accumulated of lithium (LiFePO4, a.k.a., LFP) such as Battleborn batteries over traditional lead batteries (AGM, SLA, Gel). 1-Available Power: Available amp hrs are 100% of stated amp hrs for LFP vs 50% AGM. 2-Lighter: Weight is one-quarter the weight for the same usable amp-hours of capacity (1/2 the weight for twice the available capacity). 3-Longer-lasting: Rated cycles 3000 lithium vs 500 AGM. 4-Costs Less: LFP costs less than a third compared to AGM per available amp-hour over rated life. AGM100: $250 / 50ah / 500c = $0.01 per ahc (amp-hour-cycle) LFP100: $1000 / 100ah / 3000 = $0.003 per ahc (getting LFP for less than half this cost is easy these days) 5-Less Hassle: Since LFP lasts 6 times as long as AGM, you swap out batteries less often, saving installation costs, scheduling, and hassle. 6-Smaller: LFP has 2x the power in the same space as AGM. 7-Fast Charging: LFP has a high constant rate of recharging (0.5C-1.0C) that is 99% efficient vs. inefficient (as low as 60%) and slow three-stage charging for AGM. This is like having an extra solar panel or running your generator for an hour less. 8-Robust: No need to fully charge to prevent sulfation. 9-Powerful: High Discharge Rate capable (1C or greater for lithium) 10-Peukert Effect: Available amp-hours not depleted by high discharge rate (lead batteries can lose 40% of available capacity discharging at a high rate, like running A/C, hairdryer, MW, toaster, induction stove, etc.) 11-No Conditioning: No need to do "conditioning" to remove sulfation. 12-Stores Well: Storage temp range (-20F - 150F) don't need to remove from RV in winter, but should disconnect them. It's hard to "ruin" LFP batteries. You can ruin lead batteries by too deeply discharging them. You can ruin them by not fully recharging them. You can ruin them by letting the water get to low. You can ruin them by letting them get low on charge in freezing temperatures. BB LFP batteries, with their BMS, prevent all of this. 13-Worry Free: Zero maintenance (but so are AGM and Gel). No need to check and add water like regular lead-acid batteries. Also, no dangerous and corrosive off-gassing which is possible with any lead battery, meaning you can install LFP batteries inside the living area. 14-Higher Voltage: LFP starts at a high voltage and has a flatter power delivery (voltage to SOC) curve so you get enough volts to run large loads like your inverter even from mostly-discharged batteries. 15-No Floating: Near zero self-discharge. Disconnecting LFP batteries and storing them over the winter, without a float charge, is fine. 16-Minimal voltage sag under load. Under large loads, the battery voltage drops noticeably from the "rest" voltage when the load is applied. Because LFP batteries have lower internal resistance under large loads compared to AGMs, the voltage sag is less, meaning some devices may operate longer when powered by LFP.
Your timing is perfect the entire reason for me going to Quartzsite is to add 200 to 400 amp hours of lithium and replace my charger to accommodate lithium at a hundred amps
Thank you. Have GZ 1500 for fridge& 500 for everything else(yeah, bought 500 first & found my mistake when I opened warm fridge in am). I’m heading to Yukon next Summer. I wasn’t aware of temp issues. I’ll get a used cooler to put in & improvise with tests 1st. As always, thank you! *the GZ were bought in 2018 before more info/lower prices came. Still love them
In regard to the lifetime charges, 4,000 deep charges vs 15,000 shallow charges, I think it works out to be about the same. If you deep charge every 4 days for 4,000 times, that equates to 16,000 consecutive days. If you shallow charge every day for 15,000 days, it's about the same. I'm thinking there might not be any benefit, that I can see, for shallow charging. What do you think?
Affording these on low disability income? 🙃 boy oh boy..... manifestation miracles abound I know. Keep the faith and vision💥 💫. A computer 🖥 one day too. My laptop died three years ago. This old iPad has been trusty 😆🎈🎂❤️ Been studying the Li Time Ampere time too. Great brand. I’ve read you can keep the non heated in a cooler on colder nights to protect? Or get like reptile heating pads?
I got confused at the end about the power stations? Maybe I don't understand how you use all that power in the battery if you don't have a power station to plug your devices into. Help?
I just installed these batteries in my van. I’m real curious how these are working out for Bob. One thing that worries me about them is the requirement that there be a 20 amp current charging them for the heaters to fire up. I don’t know that my solar panel ever charges with a 20 amp current, which means the heating feature only works when the van engine is running and the alternator is powering the DC to DC charger.
IMO. I do not think this is true that you can get 41.1 years from a LFP battery. Everything dies over time. If you put a new fully charged unused LFP battery in forever storage it would not be usable after 100 years because of corrosion with moisture from the air and other factors. I do not believe the claims that you can even get 10 years from LFP batteries without some proof. Just because people say things does not mean they are true.
Im in Canada and will be doing winter for the first time in my van..im wondering if some low power plant germination mats would be enough to warm my batteries enough to keep them happy?
Bob please explain what cycles are. I assume the definition of a cycle in this case would be going from a discharged state to a fully charged state? Does that include partial charges?
It’s all a compromise. If the hardware is configured correctly one can charge the batteries using roof mounted solar panels, a portable solar panel set and a generator ALL at the same time.
My goodness, How did we survive before self-heating batteries? If the batteries are too cold to charge, the water I keep is too cold to drink (frozen). If I can keep my water from freezing, i can apply the same problem solving process to properly store my batteries. Just contemplating out loud - no offense intended.
You save people so much money with your videos .
I know everyone would agree. Thanks for all the knowledge you bring to people. Have a great day.
It is important to remember that while LiFePO4 batteries cannot be charged below freezing, they CAN be used/discharged below freezing. Further, using your batteries will cause them to generate heat internally. So in cold weather, it can be useful to have thermal insulation around your batteies to hold in the heat. Further, there are heating mats that are sold to keep RV water tanks from freezing that can be used to jerry rig a battery heater. They only have to be heated to above freezing. These solutions are not nearly as convenient as built in heaters, but can be made to work.
Perfectly timed. I just woke up from an overnight in my SUV rig that got right down to freezing. (I was totally toasty with two 20° bags and insulated pad) and would have totally plugged my batteries into charge because I forgot you taught us Don't charge them below freezing.". Thank you!
If it’s just one night, put an insulated blanket over it, or if you have enough capacity, run a heated blanket for the batteries every few hours.
Where do you get your water for you tank? I'm new to this
Bob, did you buy more than 1 battery? The cost would be 2 times as much but you would have 400ah of charge to run just about everything! Love your reviews! Lately you have shown many great products to help us make wise choices. I have special needs for my van, CPAP, power chair charging, wheelchair lift, AC, heating, so I have to have enough to get me through the night. I will upgrade sometime in the future to lithium. Luckily I charge my batteries from my van engine, I must say that should be a priority in a power system for RV. If the sun isn’t out, drive your van to town or your next camping site that’s what I do. It’s one of the cheapest solutions to battery charging. Thank you for sharing your findings on all the stuff you need to go boondocking and beyond. Can’t wait for your next video! Thanxz
Great vid Bob. I recently bought 2 of these AT 200ah self heating batteries. After some research, and I could be wrong about this, but these batteries wait for power to come in, either solar or ac and then checks the temp. If the temp is too low the power coming in is used for heating the battery. Once a threshold is reached the power then charges the battery. Seems like I read that the startup heating process is at 41 degrees and shutoff is in the 50s. I like this arrangement much better that the self heating Battleborn batteries. They have a wire and switch where you can manually turn the heat on or off. The disadvantage is that the heat is generated by the battery rather than incoming power. If you forget to cut it off it continues to use battery power to heat the battery whether its needed or not. Again, tongue in cheek on all this. Do your own research. Keep up the good work.
The BattleBorn approach to has advantages and disadvantages as does the AmpereTime (LiTime now) approach. The BB approach has an advantage in that someone who’s solar can’t provide 20 amps of current can still get their batteries warm enough to charge. Without those 20 amps of charging current coming in the LiTime batteries heating feature will not fire up.
They laughed at me when I asked about this in Yuma 😂
Coming from OR, I thought it might be a good idea 😊
The victron mppt charge controllers have a temperature sensor. Mine was set to 41° to not charge if below from the factory.
Thank you for all the knowledge you give us! Even after years of watching videos about solar batteries, I had no idea they could not be charged if their temperature was below freezing.
Yet another superb video made by Bob!
Just checking website they are not badly priced at all Bob. And a fabulous safety mechanism for your set up because we never know 😊 thanks
Thank you Bob! This is very helpful information! Take care!
I have been watching your videos for awhile bob, You have motivated and showed me you dont need the fancy things like a house in life, Im 21 and Im planning on getting my license and a car/van to move into, Your my motivation 🙏🤍
LifePo batteries have ahigher and a much more stable voltage as well. When powering an inverter, that is a big advantage. You can use the full capacity vs a lead based battery that will have such bad voltage drop that you can barely use half it's capacity. They charge faster, they last longer, they weigh less and the cost less.
Just found your channel, I'll be homeless coming this January landlord is raising the rent and being on a fixed income I can't afford it. Ok I have a 1962 ford f100 pickup short bed. First, I need to find a camper for my truck, and I hope by watching your videos you can help me out. I get my SSI (not much) so at least I have some kind of income. I still have a couple of months to get my stuff in storage and then go find a camper shell, not cheap here in S. California.
Yep, at current LiFePO4 battery prices (AKA LFP or Lithium Iron Phosphate), it just doesn't make sense to by older lead chemistry batteries. And LFP batteries are so much better in so many ways. I compiled a list of all the advantages I could identify a while back. Here's my summary of all 16 of the advantages I have accumulated of lithium (LiFePO4, a.k.a., LFP) such as Battleborn batteries over traditional lead batteries (AGM, SLA, Gel).
1-Available Power: Available amp hrs are 100% of stated amp hrs for LFP vs 50% AGM.
2-Lighter: Weight is one-quarter the weight for the same usable amp-hours of capacity (1/2 the weight for twice the available capacity).
3-Longer-lasting: Rated cycles 3000 lithium vs 500 AGM.
4-Costs Less: LFP costs less than a third compared to AGM per available amp-hour over rated life.
AGM100: $250 / 50ah / 500c = $0.01 per ahc (amp-hour-cycle)
LFP100: $1000 / 100ah / 3000 = $0.003 per ahc (getting LFP for less than half this cost is easy these days)
5-Less Hassle: Since LFP lasts 6 times as long as AGM, you swap out batteries less often, saving installation costs, scheduling, and hassle.
6-Smaller: LFP has 2x the power in the same space as AGM.
7-Fast Charging: LFP has a high constant rate of recharging (0.5C-1.0C) that is 99% efficient vs. inefficient (as low as 60%) and slow three-stage charging for AGM. This is like having an extra solar panel or running your generator for an hour less.
8-Robust: No need to fully charge to prevent sulfation.
9-Powerful: High Discharge Rate capable (1C or greater for lithium)
10-Peukert Effect: Available amp-hours not depleted by high discharge rate (lead batteries can lose 40% of available capacity discharging at a high rate, like running A/C, hairdryer, MW, toaster, induction stove, etc.)
11-No Conditioning: No need to do "conditioning" to remove sulfation.
12-Stores Well: Storage temp range (-20F - 150F) don't need to remove from RV in winter, but should disconnect them. It's hard to "ruin" LFP batteries. You can ruin lead batteries by too deeply discharging them. You can ruin them by not fully recharging them. You can ruin them by letting the water get to low. You can ruin them by letting them get low on charge in freezing temperatures. BB LFP batteries, with their BMS, prevent all of this.
13-Worry Free: Zero maintenance (but so are AGM and Gel). No need to check and add water like regular lead-acid batteries. Also, no dangerous and corrosive off-gassing which is possible with any lead battery, meaning you can install LFP batteries inside the living area.
14-Higher Voltage: LFP starts at a high voltage and has a flatter power delivery (voltage to SOC) curve so you get enough volts to run large loads like your inverter even from mostly-discharged batteries.
15-No Floating: Near zero self-discharge. Disconnecting LFP batteries and storing them over the winter, without a float charge, is fine.
16-Minimal voltage sag under load. Under large loads, the battery voltage drops noticeably from the "rest" voltage when the load is applied. Because LFP batteries have lower internal resistance under large loads compared to AGMs, the voltage sag is less, meaning some devices may operate longer when powered by LFP.
Amazed that anyone would buy an AGM for anything but a starter battery these days. LiFePO4 is already cheaper for equal useable capacity
Lead acid make quite some sense for specific applications.
Always interesting your videos Bob, thanks from Puerto Rico
Your timing is perfect the entire reason for me going to Quartzsite is to add 200 to 400 amp hours of lithium and replace my charger to accommodate lithium at a hundred amps
great video~ thanks~
Thank you. Have GZ 1500 for fridge& 500 for everything else(yeah, bought 500 first & found my mistake when I opened warm fridge in am). I’m heading to Yukon next Summer. I wasn’t aware of temp issues. I’ll get a used cooler to put in & improvise with tests 1st. As always, thank you! *the GZ were bought in 2018 before more info/lower prices came. Still love them
Great information 👍 thanks for putting this video together 😊
Great advice about the batteries very smart man thank you very much have a great safe day
Do your lithium batteries charge when you drive?
This has helped me a lot, Thanks so much.
Renogy and a few others make 300ah (minis) which are only 55lbs now and 30% smaller then the one he is testing.
Thank you for sharing ✌️🙏🤟
In regard to the lifetime charges, 4,000 deep charges vs 15,000 shallow charges, I think it works out to be about the same. If you deep charge every 4 days for 4,000 times, that equates to 16,000 consecutive days. If you shallow charge every day for 15,000 days, it's about the same. I'm thinking there might not be any benefit, that I can see, for shallow charging. What do you think?
Bang ….good video sir
I would like to know how good the hemp batteries are out Canada?
thanks..
ive never heard of self heating batteries and i live in finland. interesting
They DO exist. I have a
100 AH lithium battery with self heating protection.
Mine has an extra positive terminal for heat.I think it’s a commercial battle born.It’s green.
Is it possible to have a set up with both lithium and lead acid and switch between depending on temperatures? Just curious!
Affording these on low disability income? 🙃 boy oh boy..... manifestation miracles abound I know. Keep the faith and vision💥 💫. A computer 🖥 one day too. My laptop died three years ago. This old iPad has been trusty 😆🎈🎂❤️ Been studying the Li Time Ampere time too. Great brand. I’ve read you can keep the non heated in a cooler on colder nights to protect? Or get like reptile heating pads?
What is the draw when self-heating kicks on?
Awesome video 🙌😊👍👌🍀
Bob are you saying the lithium battery can't be inside your camper to stay warm ?
Are their games coming off the battery ???
It won't freeze ...
I got confused at the end about the power stations? Maybe I don't understand how you use all that power in the battery if you don't have a power station to plug your devices into. Help?
See some older videos where he installs some 12v sockets to plug in 12v appliances into.
Can different brands of lifp4 be used in the same battery bank? I don't think it's recommended, but I'm curious what your thoughts are.
Hey! Just installed mine today... Hope the Ampere Time 200ah is what its supposed to be.
I just installed these batteries in my van. I’m real curious how these are working out for Bob.
One thing that worries me about them is the requirement that there be a 20 amp current charging them for the heaters to fire up. I don’t know that my solar panel ever charges with a 20 amp current, which means the heating feature only works when the van engine is running and the alternator is powering the DC to DC charger.
What inverter and controller do you recommend? Thanks!
15,000 cycles is 41.1 years of use.
IMO. I do not think this is true that you can get 41.1 years from a LFP battery. Everything dies over time. If you put a new fully charged unused LFP battery in forever storage it would not be usable after 100 years because of corrosion with moisture from the air and other factors.
I do not believe the claims that you can even get 10 years from LFP batteries without some proof. Just because people say things does not mean they are true.
Do you use the battery to extend the capacity of your power station? It's all over youtube.
So you are running this battery in a series along with the battle born batteries?
Bob, I didn't know the Ampere Time was the same as the Li-Time. I've been looking at the Li-Time thinking this might be a good option.
Im in Canada and will be doing winter for the first time in my van..im wondering if some low power plant germination mats would be enough to warm my batteries enough to keep them happy?
neat
Bob please explain what cycles are. I assume the definition of a cycle in this case would be going from a discharged state to a fully charged state? Does that include partial charges?
It’s all a compromise. If the hardware is configured correctly one can charge the batteries using roof mounted solar panels, a portable solar panel set and a generator ALL at the same time.
Do you charge this with solar??
My goodness, How did we survive before self-heating batteries? If the batteries are too cold to charge, the water I keep is too cold to drink (frozen). If I can keep my water from freezing, i can apply the same problem solving process to properly store my batteries. Just contemplating out loud - no offense intended.
✅
He’s never in those temps to need heat. Plus if the batteries are inside you don’t need heated.