Healthy, interactive, skillful. I think decks should have to pick floodgate turbo or break-my-board combo. Decks like branded that set up interaction like the illusions, but also nightmare lock you, are the prime example of this BS
I think the flaw in his argument at saying "in a 30 deck meta, you can't prepare for everything," is if a deck CAN counter all/a majority of opposing decks, that deck BECOMES the best deck. He's basically just describing what makes a wide and narrow meta different, and then framing it as a good or bad thing. While it's true that having a huge variance in decks in the meta doesn't automatically make it a "more skillful" meta, I think they tend to reward players who are skillful in deck creation and reading the meta. Of course there will be times you just get completely shut down by a random strategy that counters you, but I think that relies more on that topic of concessions that he just sort of glossed over. "Do you make your deck less reliable against 80% of opponents to give you a chance against the 20% that otherwise shut you down?" "Do I focus on my strengths or try to cover my weaknesses?" These kinds of decisions can change meta to meta, even tournament to tournament, and separate good players from great players .
@@chicabu67 name a toxic wide format since this is historically a problem, for each one i bet there can be 2 different examples of tier 0 formats (especially if we count both TCG/OCG)
@@babrad I generally agree with what your point is (wide formats are better imo), but there definitely has been toxic wide formats. Biggest example that comes to mind is Pre-POTE Adventure Meta where every deck just did Halq-Scythe turbo. The strategies the decks in a format use should still be fun and interactive.
- Oh yeah i drew 2 Bystials i can now get a turn. - Orange Light discards Agido then Tear player proceeds to mill 5. - I won dice, i'll play first. The opponent drew havnis so on the effect of Spright Blue they start a milling chain, you end up staring at turn 0 Winda + Dragostapelia + Shufflers in GY to make your Elf useless, while key one-offs are now unusable because they ended up in the gy. Tear was arguably my favourite Tier 0 format of all time (it would have been my favourite competitive format in general if Dweller and Winda were banned) but thinking there were really other viable (i mean equally competitive) choices is just an illusion.
GGYGO straight up lying about Tearlament from Nov 2022 - February 2023. “Other options” ok unless your name was Floowandereeze or Bystial Spright. “You had other cards to side”…Zombie World?
@@TheHoodMVP i taught the game to a brand new player during tear format and was explaining the Tear mirror, where the mills decided i should lose on my first turn due to their havnis while guiding the new player through the optimal combo lines, not just once but more than 10 times in a single day. They hate variance in general, but the variance of milling is ironically completely ignored, just because the format was so streamlined that through enough playtesting (especially with a really capable testing group) you could easily map all potential interactions in your favor and by "memorizing patterns" they outright eliminated skill expressions like "deck building" (solved tear 0 lists), "countering the meta" (anti meta picks like Exo), "core game mechanics knowledge" + "card knowledge" (understanding reactions vs random cards / identifying a deck's choke point on the fly).
The only thing to defend about that format is how fun and interactive the mirror match is and that tear itself is a very fun deck. However its so above the power level of other decks that it basically kills any deck that isn't itself or isn't built to counter it via floodgates. A lot of tear defenders just dont wanna acknowledge that no matter how enjoyable the deck is, its a toxic format regardless if thats your only real option to play.
Anyone who says "the format is too diverse so it's bad" should look at B.A.S.E.D. format to see what an ACTUAL bad "diverse" format is. Aka the illusion is there but every deck ends on the same endboard with different ways to get to it. Oh, and it was $800 dollars minimum to compete at all then to add into it.
@woosaucin yup, basically all decks ended the same way but with different ways to get to it. Very unfun cause you couldn't prepare for it properly despite it otherwise in reality being very narrow while looking wide.
I unironically think that format was my least favorite in the history of the game barring actual FTK/Hand Rip formats. It was so disheartening to see even rogue decks just do the same exact line and setting up a Scythe lock.
Like I get "competitive players" want a narrow format for tournaments so they don't have to work hard at deck building. But imo a pro player should be able to play and do well in a wide format
I love how GGYGO basically ignores the skill needed to navigate through various matchups your deck and knowledge of the meta game. GOAT and Edison are the most popular legacy formats due to the diversity and range in their formats, leading to more thoughtful gameplay and strategy.
Yeah idk what he is smoking. It really comes off as someone who would complain about getting "scammed" by some random rogue deck because they don't know what the cards do and gets punished for it.
@@hokagevinny my brother what are you yapping about...one thing is interactive and can be played around the other thing is a lingering floodgate that you have to hard open or set with thrust and has 0 counters...
@@derohneleben8205 how do you out an unaffected towers without a silver bullet? Your take is shit. Imagine what the meta would be if we didn't have droll or shifter. (It wouldn't be your shitty cats) "Silver Bullets" are necessary for the game when the power creep is coming out at a rate like it is.
Grim is a great dude, but I must admit this vid wasn't good, nor were his arguments (I say this respectfully, everyone is allowed to have bad videos/takes). Having tier 0/one deck formats are OBJECTIVELY not healthy for the metagame. The mirror may be skillful, but you're not playing any card game to play chess, which is what makes tier 0 inherently unhealthy. While it requires more knowledge of a specific matchup, it also requires less general game sense and more targeted game sense in a given matchup. The wider a format gets, the less targeted side decking becomes as you have to play more generic options for a wider variety of matchups, and in-turn increases the importance of your archetype and main deck choices. Additionally, it makes skill expression less about one specific matchup, and more focused on general game sense. At that point, it depends on preference. Do you prefer less decks with more importance on tech cards and skill in one specific matchup, or do you prefer wider formats with a higher priority on the quality of your engines and more generalized game sense. His video both felt very all over the place, gave very underwhelming reasons to even be on his side, and felt more of a discussion on very specific formats like tear rather than the topic at hand. He doesn't give accurate examples either, as first, Gouki was NOT tier 0 because it never had enough representation to qualify for the status. Secondly, his TOSS format example doesn't make sense when he forgets to mention the 4th deck of that format, Salamangreat. Again, not trying to be rude or bash on Grim, but this video was far from his best work, and hopefully this comment gives context as to why.
I don't like the comments about some formats being cheap when they weren't, because I wanted to play in Tearlameant format but couldn't afford the field spell at $70 a copy, reinoheart at $20 a copy and the fusions at 17 to 40 a copy, and that's just the Tearlameants cards, not the other cards you would need
Yu-Gi-Oh players have a very skewed understanding of cheap when it comes to this game. Other games have high tier decks for $40 but if you complain about a single card being that price no one really cares
I can't respect the opinion of a person who wanted D Shifter banned *in the midst of* Tear 0 format. Yet also wants Reboot to come back bc "It's ok bc the card doesn't hurt me."
From someone who's trying to get into the game competitively, I built despia bc it has a lot of tools for lots of different decks and I'm hoping it won't be touched in a while. A wide format is nice dude idc what anyone else plays but if I have this many more decks to choose from, I definitely enjoy it. This guy wants a top 3 decks and nothing else to be able to win which is cringe. If someone's new and wants to get in they can, if they jump in on tier 0 dawg you're asking someone to shell out around 1000$.
I think the number of viable decks is almost irrelevant to the health of the format, and what mostly matters is how fun the gameplay is with the top decks. Of course all else being equal, more viable decks is better, but fun gameplay is the most important. Who cares if 20 different decks can win a tournament if the gameplay is ass.
I think Tear can be compared to Fire King/Snake-Eye rn except the only difference is that the wanted engine/bonfires + little knight make the deck more expensive
Kashtira was healthier than Tearlaments was. Almost everything you did to Tear didn't matter but, after Diablosis got banned, Kashtira could be beat with cards from 2003.
"it's really easy for people to learn the game in narrow formats" you see this is technically correct but the problem is that when you tell somebody new to yugioh that only 3 decks are realistically viable to play the won't say "wow this is so easy to learn, i love it", what they will actually say is "that's ridiculous, why is yugioh so unbalanced?"
I love how he talks about how "skillful" narrow formats are then immediately at 10:25 goes "wide format too hard because you have to know more than one match up". Bro be consistent for one minute. How can one format be more skillful when the other option "harder"?
I hate when these "elitists" speak on behalf of players. Tear format was so amazing it almost killed a lot of locals and participation dropped across the board. Participation is up when Timmy's Tier 3 deck can maybe win locals and THOSE players are what keep the lights on and the game running and not the same 32 people jerking each other off in top cut about how tear is god's gift to the world.
Im a lillia main, that analogy was on fucking point, i had to start going more tank than AP because of the shojin meta just to have a CHANCE of going even and i had to rely on my team to dive on him, my only AP items in any of my games would be Demonic and Morello or Zhonyas
Fuck it I'm going full hater mode. Wide formats are generally more interesting and fun than a narrow one. Yeah it's easier to compete, but fuck if I care. If I have a good time, that's all that matters to me. Getting sacked in a random match does suck, but it's a part of the game, and I rather have that than infinite mirrors
For saying "silver bullets don't win games" why was he asking for Shifter to be hit during Tear format? If it doesn't win games why should it get hit? Consistent arguments aren't his strong suit obviously.
I’ve always found GGYGO takes on this stuff malicious against the average player. He was scared of the comment section bc he knows his take is shit lmao
Funny to have him say "you could play exo or floo...you had so many ways to play around tear" My brother you just listed 2 decks that only "play around" because of shifter and they still got bodied by Tear at every event
No way he unironically said Gouki was worse than Tear. They both sucked ass, but Tear played through virtually EVERYTHING or if they did get "stopped" they simply activate Havnis on your turn and play anyway. Against Gouki you sometimes just won to Veiler on Marauding Captain or Connector or whatever starter of choice at the time. Was it often? No, not really, but that deck DID lose to handtraps whereas Tear only really lost Shifter or the shufflers in the mirror milled off Agido.
I feel that people who say the format is too wide want an easier card game to play. Yugioh is a 25 year old card game with 10.000 plus cards. Of course there are going to be hundreds of different strategies to play. If you can’t keep up with your strategy, it’s a skill issue that you have to resolve by knowing your strategies weak points and strong points.
I’d argue variance is a huge skill on both parties. On the party who brought the random deck there’s skill in the ability to look at a format and realize that the deck most people play has a bad match up to this random deck, which is then followed up by the skill to properly build the deck especially if it is not a pet deck. I’d argue this because usually there are no guides on how to build the deck. On the other hand the player who is playing against the deck has to have the skill to improvise mid match and improvise on their side deck. With this also comes a skill in deck building specifically because you have to realize where your deck is weak and build a side deck around that weakness. This is a huge part of building side decks for the most popular time wizard formats as there are so many playable decks in GOAT and especially Edison that instead of siding to beat every deck your side deck is built to cover a weakness and adapt to a deck good at exploiting your weakness
The only major problem GG's video has is that he's saying "better" instead of "preferred." There's nothing wrong with liking wide or narrow formats, but DD's arguments don't make sense aside from him preferring things that way.
he's right on the part that "combo deck go first auto win". tears actually counter that by being able to play on turn 0. every deck/archetype should get a support to be able to do that. tears is only toxic tier 0 because it's currently the only one deck that can do that, therefore they fck every other decks over in term of viability and powercreep. he also talking about interaction and skill, which is a fair point coz it's not "lose coin toss, lose the game" if you can play in your opponent first turn so they cant setup the degen board. meta consist of only 3 decks so i can prepare for everything is such a bs argument. i can agree with his pov that "you want to come parepare for everything" but general demographic of ygo is "i just want to play cool deck i've seen in anime" or "i want to play my waifu deck". forcing everyone to play only 3 decks if you want to see results is awful. he is right with his context, but i disagree that his context is what majority of ygo players want.
Hearing the "I don't have enough side deck space" is just funny as hell to hear. Yeah you are never going to have the space you want as no deck to have a sure fire game plan for everything. Sometimes you are just going to have to be a better players or luck out on a two of. Hell one of the reason MTG's Laylines will always have a decent price is due to metagame shifts where people take out Layline of the Void (macro cosmos that can be in play for free if in opening hand for the Yugioh players), having come to expect Dredge had so fallen out mind, that no one is just going to randomly show up with it, only to have a Dredge player to go undefeated, leading to Online play and follow up events having a sizeable Dredge playerbase to the point Laylines of thr Void comeback into the sidedeck til Dredge falls off again. It's silly but it has happened a like three times now with like 2/3 years between each of the spikes.
14:58 oh boy this really got me going i need to rant. So variance not equaling skill I take to mean diverse formats are not good for skill expression. I couldn't think of a way someone could be more wrong. I think when variance does remove skill in a format its specifically because of certain rng mechanic cards, that don't really exist, or are extremely rare in yugioh. Diverse formats are extremely skilled, they are just testing a different kind of skill than what is required in a 2/3 deck format. I think of it like a sliding scale. On one end you have adaptability, being able to change your play mid game, to work through your turn playing through your opponents interaction efficiently. But also being able to adapt your side board and choice of deck to account for the meta game at the time. On the other end of the scale is well I memorised this one matchup really well, or I have this one youtube combo down pat, but if I go up against something different or I get disrupted I'm going to get blind sighted and lose. Call me crazy, but I think the better the player, the more they skew toward the adaptive end on the scale.
10:20 I saw this in another video somewhere and it is the biggest horseshit excuse that comes from someone who has clearly not been new to a game with a long history for a while. If someone is new to the game, they aren't worrying about learning the meta and how to navigate matchups, they are focused on learning the rules of the game and how their own deck works. And while in Master Duel, you can get acquainted with your deck in a relatively short time period since the game gives you all the prompts you would need to watch out for and you can grind the deck for as long as you want every day, this type of practice is not feasible in a paper environment, and given he brings up side boards, I can only assume he is looking at this from a paper perspective.
Also imagine selling Yugioh to a new potential player with "Yeah you can only really do well with these 1-3 decks, so you have to play one of those. But that just means you know what you're gonna play against! :)"
I just realized something. GG didn't side deck backrow hate.. In a format where at least half the tier 1 decks were backrow decks... could be 3 if you have the right build of orcust, but striker and salad were backrow decks... And you didn't side backrow hate for them? He 100% deserved that loss in top eight.
Tbf it didn't, it hovered around 50% after the first two events, which is probably why some people get the idea/illusion other decks could realistically compete The better question is, why was every final an ishtear mirror if there were so many options? And the answer is obvious, none of the options were strong enough in the long run
I feel like these type of people are the same people that complain about fighting games having too many viable characters. Bro just play a different game
Aww yeah a three deck format! Don't you guys love Adamancipator/Eldlich format? Didn't you also love how Infernoble knight made a perfect glorious tri-deck format?
I agree with GGYGO more than Stevie on this one. With the exception of “just play shifter” argument, the main point GG was making is that Tear can play going 2nd into Tear, and having a deck that was not dice roll dependent is cool. The main issue is that that’s the ONLY deck you could realistically play. You can cope on drawing shifter and what not, but there really was no counter play unless you were playing the mirror specifically. And the reason why it’s more skillful is because unlike other tier 0 formats mirror matches, games did not go dice roll winner takes game 1, dice roll loser takes game 2, dice roll winner takes game 3. You had to think critically regardless of the dice roll. To Stevie’s ‘go play chess’ point. Fair. Chess is not for everyone, but it’s been a mainstay game for thousands of years for a reason. But the opposite end of the spectrum is just having every game being reflavoring of rock paper scissors, and just hope you only face reskinned paper when your playing reskinned scissors
Not to suck off tier 0 formats, but Tear was laughably cheap, minus the field spell and Ishizu engine, in the midst of its own tier 0 format. Currently, just getting 1 each of the Wanted cards is obnoxiously expensive.
It was still like 400$ which is made worse by the fact that since it was tier 0 the only other option to avoid spending a whole game console's worth of money for a deck that would get slaughtered in 2 months was almost exactly floo and maybe exosister and even then only because shifter was unlimited meaning you'd have to relly heavily on luck
we saw it in tear format luck decided all games not skill if you opened well you won in an open format because the opponent is the unknown it takes skill to produce the right plays to win it all. dude thats exactly what a top player needs to be prepared for a random match up thats what seperate casual and meta
The fact he said you should get salty because you felt confident in your list but lost bruh. That’s a fucking game, you clearly didn’t have enough skill expression or understanding to actually maneuver your way into a win. No, instead you wanted game 2-3 to be D barrier, D shifter, gg. 😊
Why cant we just all agree tier 0 formats are bad for the game and narrow formats get stale really fast. I am of the opinion that wide formats require more skill than navigating 6 mirror matches or the same 2 other match ups for 8 rounds.
Because they are not necessarily Bad, tier 0 formats sometimes happen and some of them are good formats (but they have to be short to not get boring) i'd Even argue that playing the mirror in a High level is Even more skillfull than lose to some random as shifter deck or lose the dice roll to floo...
We can’t agree because tier 0 formats aren’t necessarily bad for the game. A tier 0 format that’s has a super oppressive deck as the deck is bad, but tear wasn’t that
@@thatoneguy4101 It was play tier or a deck that could play shifter and hope you saw it. That is still pretty bad. It didn't feel that bad because tear was good against itself going second.
@@thatoneguy4101When there is a Tier 0 format there is mainly 1 oppressive deck, hence why it's called Tier 0. IDK how you think Tear wasn't oppressive when we have multiple tournament results with Tear monopolizing the top cut
The biggest problem that i see, is that most of the playerbase do not want to learn how to play the game... they only care how to play certain decks, but the base and rulings of yugioh??? Nah, too much text.
I think wide formats are great. If you can play your deck and not play the same shit every time and still have actual games, that seems like a great thing not a bad one. Oh no I can’t side the same shit vs every deck and have to tailor my main deck to focus more on my strategy than my opponents. What is bad about that? Also weird I don’t see top players complaining about it. I like GG I just think this take is trash
There always something bad in each format but tear meta being super cheap for its power. In general turn 0 win nah I don’t want no smoke with that meta. But fireking at least I have a chance
Is he delusional the literally point of going first is literally set up a board that stops the opponent from playing and they only way to prevent it is to open a specific cards. welcome to modern yugioh where people are trying to force you to play fire. the sad is that is a lot of top players opinions towards open formats my side deck doesn't counter all the format is bad. no that is the true and few month ago pak pretty much said it himself only willing to practice against the best 3-4 decks and not take anything else serious this was a comment directed towards rikka before the most recent banlist my problems is these players are the first to demand a card that they lost to be banned.
Personally i put much more weight on what the decks in a format do than how many there are but tbh your persprctive also seems just super biased against tear. You spoke about how it sucked cause you just went first made dweller and won, then spoke about how you could just open a bystial, out the dweller and win, and then that the games were 50 minute slogs as bad and then also that silver bullets that auto win are bad. I may havr misunderstood but basically every argument you made felt like it contradicted a previous one
both were done by tear(they played gamaciel for a while if they don't play bystials) and the only other decks that combo during the opponent's turn are labrynth and runick and exosisters are a joke against tear
That's because most competitive players can't think on the fly. If x happens I do y. But if that doesn't happen a to z happens they don't know what to do
That video was bullshit you can have lava golem, maxx c or flodgate pepe that doesn't mean that the deck was ok and the same goes for tear they we're better that any other deck ever
I hate when peeps like this say things like "floodgates arent fun, no one wants to just auto win." There are definitely people who just want to win and others who want to win for the cheapest which tends to be floodgate.deck or shifter.deck or boardbreaker.deck
"Cant sidedeck" is just politically correct saying "Im mad i couldnt win with a single card/floodgate"
Healthy, interactive, skillful. I think decks should have to pick floodgate turbo or break-my-board combo. Decks like branded that set up interaction like the illusions, but also nightmare lock you, are the prime example of this BS
GGYGO having a consistent, unbiased opinion challenge
c'est IMPOSSIBLE
I think the flaw in his argument at saying "in a 30 deck meta, you can't prepare for everything," is if a deck CAN counter all/a majority of opposing decks, that deck BECOMES the best deck. He's basically just describing what makes a wide and narrow meta different, and then framing it as a good or bad thing. While it's true that having a huge variance in decks in the meta doesn't automatically make it a "more skillful" meta, I think they tend to reward players who are skillful in deck creation and reading the meta. Of course there will be times you just get completely shut down by a random strategy that counters you, but I think that relies more on that topic of concessions that he just sort of glossed over. "Do you make your deck less reliable against 80% of opponents to give you a chance against the 20% that otherwise shut you down?" "Do I focus on my strengths or try to cover my weaknesses?" These kinds of decisions can change meta to meta, even tournament to tournament, and separate good players from great players .
The problem isn't wide formats, the problem is the state of the game.
The problem historic is wide formats
@@chicabu67 name a toxic wide format since this is historically a problem, for each one i bet there can be 2 different examples of tier 0 formats (especially if we count both TCG/OCG)
The generic omni negate extra deck monsters are a big part
@@Shrimp4Gura yet u see that in narrow formats
@@babrad I generally agree with what your point is (wide formats are better imo), but there definitely has been toxic wide formats. Biggest example that comes to mind is Pre-POTE Adventure Meta where every deck just did Halq-Scythe turbo. The strategies the decks in a format use should still be fun and interactive.
- Oh yeah i drew 2 Bystials i can now get a turn.
- Orange Light discards Agido then Tear player proceeds to mill 5.
- I won dice, i'll play first.
The opponent drew havnis so on the effect of Spright Blue they start a milling chain, you end up staring at turn 0 Winda + Dragostapelia + Shufflers in GY to make your Elf useless, while key one-offs are now unusable because they ended up in the gy.
Tear was arguably my favourite Tier 0 format of all time (it would have been my favourite competitive format in general if Dweller and Winda were banned) but thinking there were really other viable (i mean equally competitive) choices is just an illusion.
GGYGO straight up lying about Tearlament from Nov 2022 - February 2023. “Other options” ok unless your name was Floowandereeze or Bystial Spright. “You had other cards to side”…Zombie World?
I am still astounded to this day by the amount of cope people have when trying to defend Tear as a good format.
"It was so fun and skill based"
Yeah only in the mirror, was entirely one sided if you didn't play tear..... Idk how that's fun 😂
It was a good format if you were a tear player
@@TheHoodMVP i taught the game to a brand new player during tear format and was explaining the Tear mirror, where the mills decided i should lose on my first turn due to their havnis while guiding the new player through the optimal combo lines, not just once but more than 10 times in a single day.
They hate variance in general, but the variance of milling is ironically completely ignored, just because the format was so streamlined that through enough playtesting (especially with a really capable testing group) you could easily map all potential interactions in your favor and by "memorizing patterns" they outright eliminated skill expressions like "deck building" (solved tear 0 lists), "countering the meta" (anti meta picks like Exo), "core game mechanics knowledge" + "card knowledge" (understanding reactions vs random cards / identifying a deck's choke point on the fly).
Yah I am tear defener in the sense I loved how fun was to play but it it a deck with a crippling built kash on the other hand is a pushed mess
The only thing to defend about that format is how fun and interactive the mirror match is and that tear itself is a very fun deck. However its so above the power level of other decks that it basically kills any deck that isn't itself or isn't built to counter it via floodgates. A lot of tear defenders just dont wanna acknowledge that no matter how enjoyable the deck is, its a toxic format regardless if thats your only real option to play.
In Latinoamérica Every format Is a wide format 👍
Anyone who says "the format is too diverse so it's bad" should look at B.A.S.E.D. format to see what an ACTUAL bad "diverse" format is. Aka the illusion is there but every deck ends on the same endboard with different ways to get to it.
Oh, and it was $800 dollars minimum to compete at all then to add into it.
what was that format?
@@helloitsme472 it was the halq pile format wasn't it. 5 generic omni negates endboards. basically drytron but with halq
@woosaucin yup, basically all decks ended the same way but with different ways to get to it. Very unfun cause you couldn't prepare for it properly despite it otherwise in reality being very narrow while looking wide.
I unironically think that format was my least favorite in the history of the game barring actual FTK/Hand Rip formats. It was so disheartening to see even rogue decks just do the same exact line and setting up a Scythe lock.
Watching someone argue for a narrow format in any TCG is fucking WILD 😂😂
Like I get "competitive players" want a narrow format for tournaments so they don't have to work hard at deck building. But imo a pro player should be able to play and do well in a wide format
I love how GGYGO basically ignores the skill needed to navigate through various matchups your deck and knowledge of the meta game. GOAT and Edison are the most popular legacy formats due to the diversity and range in their formats, leading to more thoughtful gameplay and strategy.
Yeah idk what he is smoking. It really comes off as someone who would complain about getting "scammed" by some random rogue deck because they don't know what the cards do and gets punished for it.
Silver bullets dont win the game?????
Me playing purrely staring at D barrier...fuuuuuun😴
What a shit take holy😂
Yeah. Silver bullets should be banned. 1 card Exodias are bad game design
But if they don't have the D Barrier you set up a unaffected towers that draws 4 and spins 3 lol. A necessary evil unfortunately.
@@hokagevinny my brother what are you yapping about...one thing is interactive and can be played around the other thing is a lingering floodgate that you have to hard open or set with thrust and has 0 counters...
@@derohneleben8205 how do you out an unaffected towers without a silver bullet? Your take is shit. Imagine what the meta would be if we didn't have droll or shifter. (It wouldn't be your shitty cats)
"Silver Bullets" are necessary for the game when the power creep is coming out at a rate like it is.
his take is litterarly: oh you dbarriered me? well i sided crossout for your dbarrier
Grim is a great dude, but I must admit this vid wasn't good, nor were his arguments (I say this respectfully, everyone is allowed to have bad videos/takes).
Having tier 0/one deck formats are OBJECTIVELY not healthy for the metagame. The mirror may be skillful, but you're not playing any card game to play chess, which is what makes tier 0 inherently unhealthy. While it requires more knowledge of a specific matchup, it also requires less general game sense and more targeted game sense in a given matchup. The wider a format gets, the less targeted side decking becomes as you have to play more generic options for a wider variety of matchups, and in-turn increases the importance of your archetype and main deck choices. Additionally, it makes skill expression less about one specific matchup, and more focused on general game sense. At that point, it depends on preference. Do you prefer less decks with more importance on tech cards and skill in one specific matchup, or do you prefer wider formats with a higher priority on the quality of your engines and more generalized game sense.
His video both felt very all over the place, gave very underwhelming reasons to even be on his side, and felt more of a discussion on very specific formats like tear rather than the topic at hand. He doesn't give accurate examples either, as first, Gouki was NOT tier 0 because it never had enough representation to qualify for the status. Secondly, his TOSS format example doesn't make sense when he forgets to mention the 4th deck of that format, Salamangreat.
Again, not trying to be rude or bash on Grim, but this video was far from his best work, and hopefully this comment gives context as to why.
I don't like the comments about some formats being cheap when they weren't, because I wanted to play in Tearlameant format but couldn't afford the field spell at $70 a copy, reinoheart at $20 a copy and the fusions at 17 to 40 a copy, and that's just the Tearlameants cards, not the other cards you would need
Yu-Gi-Oh players have a very skewed understanding of cheap when it comes to this game. Other games have high tier decks for $40 but if you complain about a single card being that price no one really cares
I can't respect the opinion of a person who wanted D Shifter banned *in the midst of* Tear 0 format. Yet also wants Reboot to come back bc "It's ok bc the card doesn't hurt me."
From someone who's trying to get into the game competitively, I built despia bc it has a lot of tools for lots of different decks and I'm hoping it won't be touched in a while. A wide format is nice dude idc what anyone else plays but if I have this many more decks to choose from, I definitely enjoy it. This guy wants a top 3 decks and nothing else to be able to win which is cringe. If someone's new and wants to get in they can, if they jump in on tier 0 dawg you're asking someone to shell out around 1000$.
‘Silver bullets don’t work’ I played floo for a year shifter works believe you me
And the reverse where people sent a necroworld banshee to the grave and autowon the game against floo.
I think the number of viable decks is almost irrelevant to the health of the format, and what mostly matters is how fun the gameplay is with the top decks.
Of course all else being equal, more viable decks is better, but fun gameplay is the most important. Who cares if 20 different decks can win a tournament if the gameplay is ass.
Wouldn't a skilled player be so good they'd do well in any format? Tbh his take is just for the lazy "pro" players
He's been scarred by something, maybe chain burn or gren maju
I think Tear can be compared to Fire King/Snake-Eye rn except the only difference is that the wanted engine/bonfires + little knight make the deck more expensive
Kashtira was healthier than Tearlaments was. Almost everything you did to Tear didn't matter but, after Diablosis got banned, Kashtira could be beat with cards from 2003.
"it's really easy for people to learn the game in narrow formats"
you see this is technically correct but the problem is that when you tell somebody new to yugioh that only 3 decks are realistically viable to play the won't say "wow this is so easy to learn, i love it", what they will actually say is "that's ridiculous, why is yugioh so unbalanced?"
I love how he talks about how "skillful" narrow formats are then immediately at 10:25 goes "wide format too hard because you have to know more than one match up". Bro be consistent for one minute. How can one format be more skillful when the other option "harder"?
I hate when these "elitists" speak on behalf of players. Tear format was so amazing it almost killed a lot of locals and participation dropped across the board.
Participation is up when Timmy's Tier 3 deck can maybe win locals and THOSE players are what keep the lights on and the game running and not the same 32 people jerking each other off in top cut about how tear is god's gift to the world.
Im a lillia main, that analogy was on fucking point, i had to start going more tank than AP because of the shojin meta just to have a CHANCE of going even and i had to rely on my team to dive on him, my only AP items in any of my games would be Demonic and Morello or Zhonyas
The mental gymnastics Tear players have to go through would win them an olympic gold medal
Fuck it I'm going full hater mode. Wide formats are generally more interesting and fun than a narrow one. Yeah it's easier to compete, but fuck if I care. If I have a good time, that's all that matters to me. Getting sacked in a random match does suck, but it's a part of the game, and I rather have that than infinite mirrors
For saying "silver bullets don't win games" why was he asking for Shifter to be hit during Tear format? If it doesn't win games why should it get hit? Consistent arguments aren't his strong suit obviously.
If I did a Stevie Blunder style video commentating on this video, it would just be 23:13 of me saying “it’s not that deep”
I’ve always found GGYGO takes on this stuff malicious against the average player. He was scared of the comment section bc he knows his take is shit lmao
Funny to have him say "you could play exo or floo...you had so many ways to play around tear"
My brother you just listed 2 decks that only "play around" because of shifter and they still got bodied by Tear at every event
Anyway if we're coping 18 handtrap Striker was playable during Gouki format
No way he unironically said Gouki was worse than Tear. They both sucked ass, but Tear played through virtually EVERYTHING or if they did get "stopped" they simply activate Havnis on your turn and play anyway.
Against Gouki you sometimes just won to Veiler on Marauding Captain or Connector or whatever starter of choice at the time. Was it often? No, not really, but that deck DID lose to handtraps whereas Tear only really lost Shifter or the shufflers in the mirror milled off Agido.
I feel that people who say the format is too wide want an easier card game to play. Yugioh is a 25 year old card game with 10.000 plus cards. Of course there are going to be hundreds of different strategies to play. If you can’t keep up with your strategy, it’s a skill issue that you have to resolve by knowing your strategies weak points and strong points.
I’d argue variance is a huge skill on both parties. On the party who brought the random deck there’s skill in the ability to look at a format and realize that the deck most people play has a bad match up to this random deck, which is then followed up by the skill to properly build the deck especially if it is not a pet deck. I’d argue this because usually there are no guides on how to build the deck. On the other hand the player who is playing against the deck has to have the skill to improvise mid match and improvise on their side deck. With this also comes a skill in deck building specifically because you have to realize where your deck is weak and build a side deck around that weakness. This is a huge part of building side decks for the most popular time wizard formats as there are so many playable decks in GOAT and especially Edison that instead of siding to beat every deck your side deck is built to cover a weakness and adapt to a deck good at exploiting your weakness
The only major problem GG's video has is that he's saying "better" instead of "preferred."
There's nothing wrong with liking wide or narrow formats, but DD's arguments don't make sense aside from him preferring things that way.
Two seconds in, already yapping. "Fair" and "unfair" don't even mean that in a competitive players lexicon
he's right on the part that "combo deck go first auto win". tears actually counter that by being able to play on turn 0. every deck/archetype should get a support to be able to do that. tears is only toxic tier 0 because it's currently the only one deck that can do that, therefore they fck every other decks over in term of viability and powercreep.
he also talking about interaction and skill, which is a fair point coz it's not "lose coin toss, lose the game" if you can play in your opponent first turn so they cant setup the degen board.
meta consist of only 3 decks so i can prepare for everything is such a bs argument. i can agree with his pov that "you want to come parepare for everything" but general demographic of ygo is "i just want to play cool deck i've seen in anime" or "i want to play my waifu deck". forcing everyone to play only 3 decks if you want to see results is awful. he is right with his context, but i disagree that his context is what majority of ygo players want.
Hearing the "I don't have enough side deck space" is just funny as hell to hear. Yeah you are never going to have the space you want as no deck to have a sure fire game plan for everything. Sometimes you are just going to have to be a better players or luck out on a two of.
Hell one of the reason MTG's Laylines will always have a decent price is due to metagame shifts where people take out Layline of the Void (macro cosmos that can be in play for free if in opening hand for the Yugioh players), having come to expect Dredge had so fallen out mind, that no one is just going to randomly show up with it, only to have a Dredge player to go undefeated, leading to Online play and follow up events having a sizeable Dredge playerbase to the point Laylines of thr Void comeback into the sidedeck til Dredge falls off again. It's silly but it has happened a like three times now with like 2/3 years between each of the spikes.
That guy is a blatant Tear Kool Aid smoker bitter that he has work to get any wins.
14:58 oh boy this really got me going i need to rant. So variance not equaling skill I take to mean diverse formats are not good for skill expression. I couldn't think of a way someone could be more wrong.
I think when variance does remove skill in a format its specifically because of certain rng mechanic cards, that don't really exist, or are extremely rare in yugioh.
Diverse formats are extremely skilled, they are just testing a different kind of skill than what is required in a 2/3 deck format.
I think of it like a sliding scale. On one end you have adaptability, being able to change your play mid game, to work through your turn playing through your opponents interaction efficiently. But also being able to adapt your side board and choice of deck to account for the meta game at the time.
On the other end of the scale is well I memorised this one matchup really well, or I have this one youtube combo down pat, but if I go up against something different or I get disrupted I'm going to get blind sighted and lose.
Call me crazy, but I think the better the player, the more they skew toward the adaptive end on the scale.
10:20 I saw this in another video somewhere and it is the biggest horseshit excuse that comes from someone who has clearly not been new to a game with a long history for a while. If someone is new to the game, they aren't worrying about learning the meta and how to navigate matchups, they are focused on learning the rules of the game and how their own deck works. And while in Master Duel, you can get acquainted with your deck in a relatively short time period since the game gives you all the prompts you would need to watch out for and you can grind the deck for as long as you want every day, this type of practice is not feasible in a paper environment, and given he brings up side boards, I can only assume he is looking at this from a paper perspective.
Also imagine selling Yugioh to a new potential player with "Yeah you can only really do well with these 1-3 decks, so you have to play one of those. But that just means you know what you're gonna play against! :)"
I just realized something. GG didn't side deck backrow hate.. In a format where at least half the tier 1 decks were backrow decks... could be 3 if you have the right build of orcust, but striker and salad were backrow decks... And you didn't side backrow hate for them? He 100% deserved that loss in top eight.
Altergeist
@@gaaraofthefunk265 I think that was tier 2 at most at that time
4:10 you know if there were SO MANY options to beat the deck why did it still eat 70%+ of top cut at virtually every event?
Tbf it didn't, it hovered around 50% after the first two events, which is probably why some people get the idea/illusion other decks could realistically compete
The better question is, why was every final an ishtear mirror if there were so many options? And the answer is obvious, none of the options were strong enough in the long run
Bro likes Trinity formats so much, just have a rock/paper/scissors tournament.
I got to know what this Synth track is in the background.
I genuinely don't know what OST it is from.
I don't like "rock paper scissors". I like paper scissors.
I feel like these type of people are the same people that complain about fighting games having too many viable characters. Bro just play a different game
Aww yeah a three deck format!
Don't you guys love Adamancipator/Eldlich format? Didn't you also love how Infernoble knight made a perfect glorious tri-deck format?
I agree with GGYGO more than Stevie on this one. With the exception of “just play shifter” argument, the main point GG was making is that Tear can play going 2nd into Tear, and having a deck that was not dice roll dependent is cool. The main issue is that that’s the ONLY deck you could realistically play. You can cope on drawing shifter and what not, but there really was no counter play unless you were playing the mirror specifically.
And the reason why it’s more skillful is because unlike other tier 0 formats mirror matches, games did not go dice roll winner takes game 1, dice roll loser takes game 2, dice roll winner takes game 3. You had to think critically regardless of the dice roll.
To Stevie’s ‘go play chess’ point. Fair. Chess is not for everyone, but it’s been a mainstay game for thousands of years for a reason.
But the opposite end of the spectrum is just having every game being reflavoring of rock paper scissors, and just hope you only face reskinned paper when your playing reskinned scissors
12:46 As we in the business like to say, "hashtag skill issue"
This man is a coach…. and he can’t form a coherent argument for what “good” is in Yugioh 😬 yikes
If wide formats create so much variance then how do players like josh, Jessie, and pak consistently top no matter what the format is?
because they know the game and have the money to dump into meta decks
Not to suck off tier 0 formats, but Tear was laughably cheap, minus the field spell and Ishizu engine, in the midst of its own tier 0 format.
Currently, just getting 1 each of the Wanted cards is obnoxiously expensive.
It was still like 400$ which is made worse by the fact that since it was tier 0 the only other option to avoid spending a whole game console's worth of money for a deck that would get slaughtered in 2 months was almost exactly floo and maybe exosister and even then only because shifter was unlimited meaning you'd have to relly heavily on luck
@@jimtsap04 Don't get me wrong, it sucked, but $400 is still less than $1000, so a lot less people were priced out of competitive play.
we saw it in tear format luck decided all games not skill if you opened well you won in an open format because the opponent is the unknown it takes skill to produce the right plays to win it all. dude thats exactly what a top player needs to be prepared for a random match up thats what seperate casual and meta
haha yeah! *slowly sides out the crossouts from main*
It is insane to me that a card game player would prefer to play mirror matches those are awful in every card game ive ever played
this guy doenst have the balls to imperm firewall
Tearlament Andys have some stinky opinions
"Gouki meta" huh? Gouki was a tier 0 deck? Nobody at my local shops played it ever
This man GG is getting cooked by half of UA-cam 🤣
Stevie you have great points, but since you're a league player i get to ignore those points, cause league players don't matter lol
Wide formats are great, tier 0 is 0/10.
The fact he said you should get salty because you felt confident in your list but lost bruh. That’s a fucking game, you clearly didn’t have enough skill expression or understanding to actually maneuver your way into a win. No, instead you wanted game 2-3 to be D barrier, D shifter, gg. 😊
Why cant we just all agree tier 0 formats are bad for the game and narrow formats get stale really fast. I am of the opinion that wide formats require more skill than navigating 6 mirror matches or the same 2 other match ups for 8 rounds.
Because they are not necessarily Bad, tier 0 formats sometimes happen and some of them are good formats (but they have to be short to not get boring) i'd Even argue that playing the mirror in a High level is Even more skillfull than lose to some random as shifter deck or lose the dice roll to floo...
I think what’s fun about Yugioh is metagaming and learning matchups
We can’t agree because tier 0 formats aren’t necessarily bad for the game. A tier 0 format that’s has a super oppressive deck as the deck is bad, but tear wasn’t that
@@thatoneguy4101 It was play tier or a deck that could play shifter and hope you saw it. That is still pretty bad. It didn't feel that bad because tear was good against itself going second.
@@thatoneguy4101When there is a Tier 0 format there is mainly 1 oppressive deck, hence why it's called Tier 0.
IDK how you think Tear wasn't oppressive when we have multiple tournament results with Tear monopolizing the top cut
Hot take but toss format was a bad format for a lot of the reasons you stated there was nothing enjoyable about it
His “where to handtrap”. Videos are his only good videos. His podcast is good too. His opinions are pretty dog water though 😂
The biggest problem that i see, is that most of the playerbase do not want to learn how to play the game... they only care how to play certain decks, but the base and rulings of yugioh??? Nah, too much text.
@ggygo could not be farther from the actual truth if he was on the moon
his take is so cope lol
just say i prefer less decks because is easier to prepare for
I think wide formats are great. If you can play your deck and not play the same shit every time and still have actual games, that seems like a great thing not a bad one. Oh no I can’t side the same shit vs every deck and have to tailor my main deck to focus more on my strategy than my opponents. What is bad about that? Also weird I don’t see top players complaining about it. I like GG I just think this take is trash
I'm gonna say it: Draw the out :)
There always something bad in each format but tear meta being super cheap for its power. In general turn 0 win nah I don’t want no smoke with that meta. But fireking at least I have a chance
Is he delusional the literally point of going first is literally set up a board that stops the opponent from playing and they only way to prevent it is to open a specific cards. welcome to modern yugioh where people are trying to force you to play fire. the sad is that is a lot of top players opinions towards open formats my side deck doesn't counter all the format is bad. no that is the true and few month ago pak pretty much said it himself only willing to practice against the best 3-4 decks and not take anything else serious this was a comment directed towards rikka before the most recent banlist my problems is these players are the first to demand a card that they lost to be banned.
GGYGO has some hot takes lmao
kmee i lost to @ignister cuz i didnt have a out to a tower. well sucks to be you bro, maybe have a out to it next time you enter a tournament
Brah calm down, how are you running out of breath sitting in a chair 😂😂
Personally i put much more weight on what the decks in a format do than how many there are but tbh your persprctive also seems just super biased against tear.
You spoke about how it sucked cause you just went first made dweller and won, then spoke about how you could just open a bystial, out the dweller and win, and then that the games were 50 minute slogs as bad and then also that silver bullets that auto win are bad.
I may havr misunderstood but basically every argument you made felt like it contradicted a previous one
both were done by tear(they played gamaciel for a while if they don't play bystials) and the only other decks that combo during the opponent's turn are labrynth and runick
and exosisters are a joke against tear
That's because most competitive players can't think on the fly. If x happens I do y. But if that doesn't happen a to z happens they don't know what to do
Hmm
That video was bullshit you can have lava golem, maxx c or flodgate pepe that doesn't mean that the deck was ok and the same goes for tear they we're better that any other deck ever
I hate when peeps like this say things like "floodgates arent fun, no one wants to just auto win." There are definitely people who just want to win and others who want to win for the cheapest which tends to be floodgate.deck or shifter.deck or boardbreaker.deck