drill some holes in the supporting plate and mount an old pc fan in the side of the flower pot and have it suck the waste powder down into the pot through a bit of filter cloth.
I wonder if an air precipitator/ (ionizer + a collection plate) would be able to scavenge enough of that for reuse, or if the collector plates would get covered too quickly - or if other airborne dust would contaminate it too badly.
I use Eastwood PC or Prysmatic Powders PC with the tumble method one thing I learned when I first started doing that was not all plastic containers are the same type of plastic. The plastic containers with the #5 in the recycling symbol on the bottom of the bowl conducts the best (at least in my experience) static electricity to get the coating to stick to the bullets
I use an expanded metal screen so only the cut edges of the metal contact the bullets. Have had no problem with black gloss. Once baked just bang the screen on a flat surface to detach the stuck ones. Your method makes great coated bullets though time consuming and more costly. I don't coat small bullets which may represent a problem with the simple method. Coating 45's with the method that failed you works well for me. I can buy jacketed bullets, 357 etc. for 11 cents a piece so I don't cast those ones.
The classy way shows a weakness, the bullet bases are naked. Does it really matter? Not sure. Many of us here in USA used vibratory case cleaners in past to clean brass with corn cob or walnut shell media. Then water based tumbling in rock polisher drums or ultra-sonic cleaners proved more effective leaving our vibratory units on the shelf. But, now many of us are using the vibratory cleners with powder paint. I fashioned a dust tight lid for mine and I use the black Air-Soft pellets along with the paint. Huge batches of bullets can be VERY FIRMLY coated with the powder in a small amount of time. Even before the bake, the burnished on powder is hard to scrape off with fingernail. Fully coated, evenly coated after baking. I use medical nitrile gloves or similar mechanic's gloves for better dexterity. My convection toaster oven bakes 220 .454" bullets at a time on two trays. I have yet to try silicone mats, but non-stick foil is very good for one or two cycles.
Dear BOTR Please get a more heavy duty dust mask (the ones with the filters) because the light duty ones are only really for sawing or painting (where the airborne stuff is quite heavy) Just looking out for you buddy! Great video!
The next time you take them out of the toaster oven put them in warm water and dump them out in side the bowl of water. That works a treat and stops them from sticking to the tray.
Shake and bake routine, the only colour I cold get to stick was black Eastwood. All other colours just wouldn't stick. So just ordered an eastwood powder gun kit and hopefully can get these stuburn powders to stick.
I've never had any problems powder coating my heads..I just use any plastic tub with a lid. High static 5 ..give a good shake then into another tub with just a small spoonful of powder..again shaking to coat the heads..i just dip my finger tips in powder and lift them onto the tray and into the oven. Around 180c for about 14 mins..then lift the tray out and straight into a sink of cold water..pop any stuck rounds off with a wooden spoon.
the gas checked bullets needed to sit longer probably because they were still attached to a fairly large thermal mass of that ally plate. i don't know about bullets but with other types of powder coating like wheels guys will chuck the items in the oven first, it helps remove any moisture from it in the atmosphere and when you spray the powder on it flows right away allowing for good coverage and then gets put back in the oven, could be worth a try, you might need to put a spare baking tray upside down in your flowerpot just tor prevent the hot tray melting the plastic
I would put the bullets in nose down so the bullet bases are well covered. The noses can be exposed with no problem except that having exposed lead can oxidize over time. I might do this for 45-70 bullets but probably not for 9mm.
Just saw you video, why are you not including hexagonal boron nitride powder with the powder coat also works with epoxy floor paint, IPSC pistol shooters have been doing it for years.
All this set-up and equipment makes the shake-and-bake method seem reasonable. Maybe a rock polisher would be a better, cleaner and cheaper alternative?
Each time I look into casting projectiles I am put off by just how much effort it seems to be. Interesting though, I enjoy seeing how you go about tackling it.
The point is to be able to shoot homemade cast bullets in magnum calibers/high velocities where expensive (purchased) jacketed bullets would be required. A very hot .44 magnum would normally need a jacketed or hard cast projectile. A standard alloy cast bullet that is water quenched for higher BHN can be powder coated and then used safely at those magnum specs. The bare cast bullet would shred unsafe amounts of lead and create a bore obstruction. The difference in cost between a purchased jacketed bullet and a home cast & PCed bullet is large. Seeing as how you can get acceptable results with just a dry case tumbler and toaster oven, this is a no-brainer for magnum and rifle reloaders. :)
@@BlokeontheRange That is great to hear. Now I am off to tell the missus that the English gun fella from UA-cam is the reason I am pinching the toaster oven. Love the channel, keep up the great work.
That mess would turn me off straight away. Have you tried the Hi-Tek coating at all? It's applied wet using the shake and dump method onto a mesh tray. It's mush less hassle because you don't have to worry about standing up the bullets or if they are touching or not. I also Powder coat using the shake method and have great results using Smoke's Powder Coats. Seach for it on the castboolits forum. The Hi-Tek and Smoke's PC are remarkably clean to apply. I have almost zero mess.
Someone was advertising this down the thread. He mentioned 3 trips into the oven with repeat applications and posted some pictures of some really nasty looking results. So, when I'm getting perfect results with the powder gun I'm disinclined to try anything else, to be honest. But thanks anyway.
@@BlokeontheRange IO use cheapo harbor freight black powder. Cheapo Franklin vibe tumbler. 500 projectiles at about an hour a batch then check it to see if it needs longer. Had plenty of static to stick to the lead even in the fairly humid south.
I shoot a couple thousand cast bullets each year. Every time I think about powder coating I watch a video. It convinces me to stick with the Lyman lube/sizer.
For the bullets without a gas check there is no coating on the base of the bullet. A good share of leading is from the melting of the bullet base at hotter loads. To me watching different video on this it is a lot more work for very little outcome. Powder coat you lungs or eye balls.🤔
That's a Fudd myth. The lead on the base of the bullet doesn't melt. You can see this a) from the base of recovered lead bullets, b) the fact that you don't get lead fouling with open-base FMJ bullets, only copper, at pressures much higher than you'd ever subject non-jacketed to.
You can also see for yourself with a blowtorch, which is much hotter and sustained than powder gases: see how long it takes for the base to melt, and it's way longer than the couple of milliseconds the bullet is exposed to the lower-temperature powder gases... Plus you've got a hunk of cold lead acting as a heat sink... There was also an experiment reported years back of someone sticking flash paper to the bases of cast bullets and recovering them. The flash paper hadn't ignited.
It probably won't matter for one or two times but I strongly suggest you get a much better face mask, an 3M type respirator, the type which makes a strong rubber seal around the mouth and nose. Apparently the type of mask visible in 8:00 in the reflection is... not very good. Air and particles are so easily sucked in around the mask.
The point is to be able to shoot homemade cast bullets in magnum calibers/high velocities where expensive (purchased) jacketed bullets would be required. A very hot .44 magnum would normally need a jacketed or hard cast projectile. A standard alloy cast bullet that is water quenched for higher BHN can be powder coated and then used safely at those magnum specs. The bare cast bullet would shred unsafe amounts of lead and create a bore obstruction. The difference in cost between a purchased jacketed bullet and a home cast & PCed bullet is large. Seeing as how you can get acceptable results with just a dry case tumbler and toaster oven, this is a no-brainer for magnum and rifle reloaders. :)
@@BlokeontheRange Others like FortuneCookie45LC who has done a lot of research on powder coating for us all, does use the PCed bullets for magnum handguns. It's a valid use. Magnum handgun, or rifle loads. He uses PCed bullets for .454 Casull on up to his. 458 Win mag. ;)
Can I ask why you are going to the bother of powder coating in the first place? I'm yet to see any empirical evidence showing and advantage over a correctly sized and lubed bullet of the correct hardness. Not dissing your choice, just asking for why :)
Can't always correctly size and still have cartridges chamber freely, so you can go a bit undersize without leading like a good'un. Much less smoke. You can go faster at lower hardness. Less hassle than lubing individually. In rifles you can go much faster without a gas check, and at much lower hardness.
Interesting... being able to use softer lead could see better bore obturation. Not sure I agree on the "less hassle than lubing individually" as it seems you are doing about a hundred every 20 minutes. Certainly, using a Lyman Lube Sizer, I can lazily lube one bullet every 5 seconds which works out at about a hundred in 9 minutes or so. But it could still be worthwhile.... Have you tested for accuracy - i.e. bullets from the same mould, one batch powder coated and one batch with the correct hardness / lube / size? My interest is primarily around pistol calibre bullets for UK Gallery Rifle shooting. Not seeing many using powder coating for that use -case at the minute, but there could be something there...
If I had a bigger oven and bigger trays, I could do a lot more every 20 minutes. And I can drink tea during most of those minutes! :D No, I've not tested for accuracy, but maybe I will do so one day. The difference in smoke is obvious when you're shooting.
drill some holes in the supporting plate and mount an old pc fan in the side of the flower pot and have it suck the waste powder down into the pot through a bit of filter cloth.
I wonder if an air precipitator/ (ionizer + a collection plate) would be able to scavenge enough of that for reuse, or if the collector plates would get covered too quickly - or if other airborne dust would contaminate it too badly.
Not worth it. The stuff's not that expensive.
I use Eastwood PC or Prysmatic Powders PC with the tumble method one thing I learned when I first started doing that was not all plastic containers are the same type of plastic. The plastic containers with the #5 in the recycling symbol on the bottom of the bowl conducts the best (at least in my experience) static electricity to get the coating to stick to the bullets
I use an expanded metal screen so only the cut edges of the metal contact the bullets. Have had no problem with black gloss. Once baked just bang the screen on a flat surface to detach the stuck ones. Your method makes great coated bullets though time consuming and more costly. I don't coat small bullets which may represent a problem with the simple method. Coating 45's with the method that failed you works well for me. I can buy jacketed bullets, 357 etc. for 11 cents a piece so I don't cast those ones.
Cue the powder coating ads
The classy way shows a weakness, the bullet bases are naked. Does it really matter? Not sure. Many of us here in USA used vibratory case cleaners in past to clean brass with corn cob or walnut shell media. Then water based tumbling in rock polisher drums or ultra-sonic cleaners proved more effective leaving our vibratory units on the shelf. But, now many of us are using the vibratory cleners with powder paint. I fashioned a dust tight lid for mine and I use the black Air-Soft pellets along with the paint. Huge batches of bullets can be VERY FIRMLY coated with the powder in a small amount of time. Even before the bake, the burnished on powder is hard to scrape off with fingernail. Fully coated, evenly coated after baking. I use medical nitrile gloves or similar mechanic's gloves for better dexterity. My convection toaster oven bakes 220 .454" bullets at a time on two trays. I have yet to try silicone mats, but non-stick foil is very good for one or two cycles.
Dear BOTR
Please get a more heavy duty dust mask (the ones with the filters) because the light duty ones are only really for sawing or painting (where the airborne stuff is quite heavy)
Just looking out for you buddy! Great video!
HardAsSponge I think the word you were looking for was a respirator
Some vacuum cleaners can deliver air from a safe place.
The next time you take them out of the toaster oven put them in warm water and dump them out in side the bowl of water. That works a treat and stops them from sticking to the tray.
Great job there. I know saying is usually way easier than doing, but you've knocked that out of the park.
Thanks
Shake and bake routine, the only colour I cold get to stick was black Eastwood. All other colours just wouldn't stick. So just ordered an eastwood powder gun kit and hopefully can get these stuburn powders to stick.
I've never had any problems powder coating my heads..I just use any plastic tub with a lid. High static 5 ..give a good shake then into another tub with just a small spoonful of powder..again shaking to coat the heads..i just dip my finger tips in powder and lift them onto the tray and into the oven. Around 180c for about 14 mins..then lift the tray out and straight into a sink of cold water..pop any stuck rounds off with a wooden spoon.
the gas checked bullets needed to sit longer probably because they were still attached to a fairly large thermal mass of that ally plate. i don't know about bullets but with other types of powder coating like wheels guys will chuck the items in the oven first, it helps remove any moisture from it in the atmosphere and when you spray the powder on it flows right away allowing for good coverage and then gets put back in the oven, could be worth a try, you might need to put a spare baking tray upside down in your flowerpot just tor prevent the hot tray melting the plastic
What load information do you have for powder coated lead heads..is it the same as say a FMJ head??
@@cgdeery
You can use whatever data you want, keep in mind lead shoots faster than jacketed weather they are powder coated or not
Eastwood powder a plastic container and done in just a few minutes plus bake time. Easy peasy.
Have a static gun similar and as yours does, it wastes an astounding amount of powder. Sticking with the 'shake it in a tub' method. Much less waste.
*gloves snap* come here chaaaaap
I would put the bullets in nose down so the bullet bases are well covered.
The noses can be exposed with no problem except that having exposed lead can oxidize over time.
I might do this for 45-70 bullets but probably not for 9mm.
Good job! Thanks for sharing!
I use tumbler. Even coating, even the bases.
Now I am curious about Creacoating bullets?
Just saw you video, why are you not including hexagonal boron nitride powder with the powder coat also works with epoxy floor paint, IPSC pistol shooters have been doing it for years.
That was very funny 🤣 at your face pop in.. good attitude.
Rinse and repeat..
😆
The bloke would powder coat bullets the classy way being a full gentlemen.
All this set-up and equipment makes the shake-and-bake method seem reasonable.
Maybe a rock polisher would be a better, cleaner and cheaper alternative?
As I said in the video, I cannot get powders here that work with the shake and bake method.
Each time I look into casting projectiles I am put off by just how much effort it seems to be. Interesting though, I enjoy seeing how you go about tackling it.
If you live in a world where the only projs you can buy are a) not what you really want, b) expensive and c) often crap, you've got no choice :D
Well done Mr. Bloke. now you need ein arbeits hut to go with your arbeits mantel!
Oh dear me you are such a bloke 😁
Does this offer any benefits for muzzleloading bullets?
Never tried it with muzzleloading bullets. Would help reduce leading with Minié-types though if you're using them naked.
Thanks!
Thx for demo, I will just clean the lead from my barrel, easier and less stressful. Cheers!
The point is to be able to shoot homemade cast bullets in magnum calibers/high velocities where expensive (purchased) jacketed bullets would be required. A very hot .44 magnum would normally need a jacketed or hard cast projectile. A standard alloy cast bullet that is water quenched for higher BHN can be powder coated and then used safely at those magnum specs. The bare cast bullet would shred unsafe amounts of lead and create a bore obstruction. The difference in cost between a purchased jacketed bullet and a home cast & PCed bullet is large. Seeing as how you can get acceptable results with just a dry case tumbler and toaster oven, this is a no-brainer for magnum and rifle reloaders. :)
Curious, would it work to create a bed of needless, stick the bullets onto the needless, coat them, bake them, then twist them off?
I think you're underestimating how hard the lead can be
How fast can you push those PC rifle bullets? Will they maintain integrity the same as a jacketed bullet up around 2800-3000 fps / 800-920 m/s?
Not at that hardness, but harder ones might go up to 2800+, but I'd PC + gas check + lube all at once for good measure.
Will the lack of powder on the base of the bullets affect their performance or increase leading?
No.
What is a gas check(spelling?) used for in rifle ammunition?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_check
Other than having prity projectiles what's the reason for p/c?
Explained at the end of the video :)
Have you put any of the coated bullets through the enfields? If so how did they go?
Yes, they went very well!
@@BlokeontheRange That is great to hear. Now I am off to tell the missus that the English gun fella from UA-cam is the reason I am pinching the toaster oven. Love the channel, keep up the great work.
What PID temp controller did you use?
It's not a PID one, it's just a simple Schmitt trigger on-off one.
How toxic are the fumes from baking?
You wouldn't want to connect a tube to the oven and breathe them, lol. Probably wouldn't want to do it in the kitchen either.
You can now apply static grass to miniatures
you need to coat the base and all the forcing bands to cut down on leading.
You do not need to coat the base. And the driving bands are indeed coated.
That mess would turn me off straight away.
Have you tried the Hi-Tek coating at all? It's applied wet using the shake and dump method onto a mesh tray. It's mush less hassle because you don't have to worry about standing up the bullets or if they are touching or not.
I also Powder coat using the shake method and have great results using Smoke's Powder Coats. Seach for it on the castboolits forum.
The Hi-Tek and Smoke's PC are remarkably clean to apply. I have almost zero mess.
Someone was advertising this down the thread. He mentioned 3 trips into the oven with repeat applications and posted some pictures of some really nasty looking results. So, when I'm getting perfect results with the powder gun I'm disinclined to try anything else, to be honest. But thanks anyway.
How about the bases? They are not coated at all.
They're not in contact with the bore so there's no issue.
Do you remember what you might have said at 9:33?
I didn't say anything (it'd have come across on the camera's microphone). That bullet seemed to be falling over, so I pushed it back down.
@@BlokeontheRange fair enough.
2 by 2 hands of Blue
Browncoat's Unite!!!
Or just use a vibratory tumbler. Far cheaper and less mess. Also gives a good thick coating.
Tumbling literally didn't work with any of the powders I tried.
@@BlokeontheRange IO use cheapo harbor freight black powder. Cheapo Franklin vibe tumbler. 500 projectiles at about an hour a batch then check it to see if it needs longer. Had plenty of static to stick to the lead even in the fairly humid south.
I know the Harbor Freight stuff is supposed to work well, these Euro powders however didn't.
@@BlokeontheRange Try switching 'high tech'. I hear it is equivalent to hardening and lubing lead.
I shoot a couple thousand cast bullets each year. Every time I think about powder coating I watch a video. It convinces me to stick with the Lyman lube/sizer.
@12:58 There is the face of a man in considerable pain.
For the bullets without a gas check there is no coating on the base of the bullet. A good share of leading is from the melting of the bullet base at hotter loads. To me watching different video on this it is a lot more work for very little outcome.
Powder coat you lungs or eye balls.🤔
That's a Fudd myth. The lead on the base of the bullet doesn't melt. You can see this a) from the base of recovered lead bullets, b) the fact that you don't get lead fouling with open-base FMJ bullets, only copper, at pressures much higher than you'd ever subject non-jacketed to.
You can also see for yourself with a blowtorch, which is much hotter and sustained than powder gases: see how long it takes for the base to melt, and it's way longer than the couple of milliseconds the bullet is exposed to the lower-temperature powder gases... Plus you've got a hunk of cold lead acting as a heat sink...
There was also an experiment reported years back of someone sticking flash paper to the bases of cast bullets and recovering them. The flash paper hadn't ignited.
Cool!
Garden Shop? I hear Landi!
The one and only!
You might try coating the aluminum with PAM (nonstick cooking oil) before you sit the bullets on.
Oil and grease are kryptonite to powder coating.
@@BlokeontheRange
Yes but will it creep up to where it will interfere with the powder?
Probably. Also, it risks affecting the electrical connection between the foil and the bullets.
@@BlokeontheRange
I don't think nonstick cooking oil is dielectric. Couldn't hurt to sacrifice a few bullets in the name of science.
Looks like us classless people are stuck with a plastic container and our cheap toaster ovens. lol
The other 'C' word to use is 'correct'. Lol
Watch a few vids from elvis ammo. Then try powder coating.
I did. His methods were the most epic fail imaginable with the powders available to me.
@@BlokeontheRange
How about wiederlader tv ? He is on your side of the pond.
This method is basically his, with a few adjustments to suit my taste ;)
It probably won't matter for one or two times but I strongly suggest you get a much better face mask, an 3M type respirator, the type which makes a strong rubber seal around the mouth and nose. Apparently the type of mask visible in 8:00 in the reflection is... not very good. Air and particles are so easily sucked in around the mask.
Sounds like an FF3B he is looking for. Unfortunately the seal will be nullified by facial hair.
Sorry for being very ignorant but why do this?
Explained at the end of the video
The point is to be able to shoot homemade cast bullets in magnum calibers/high velocities where expensive (purchased) jacketed bullets would be required. A very hot .44 magnum would normally need a jacketed or hard cast projectile. A standard alloy cast bullet that is water quenched for higher BHN can be powder coated and then used safely at those magnum specs. The bare cast bullet would shred unsafe amounts of lead and create a bore obstruction. The difference in cost between a purchased jacketed bullet and a home cast & PCed bullet is large. Seeing as how you can get acceptable results with just a dry case tumbler and toaster oven, this is a no-brainer for magnum and rifle reloaders. :)
That's not my point in the slightest, having absolutely zero interest in hot handgun loads ;)
@@BlokeontheRange Others like FortuneCookie45LC who has done a lot of research on powder coating for us all, does use the PCed bullets for magnum handguns. It's a valid use. Magnum handgun, or rifle loads. He uses PCed bullets for .454 Casull on up to his. 458 Win mag. ;)
Indeed, it's a valid use. Just not *my* use ;)
You mean to say if you're not cheap lol
my question is why bother ?
AHHHH-EEEEE! Hot.
Can I ask why you are going to the bother of powder coating in the first place?
I'm yet to see any empirical evidence showing and advantage over a correctly sized and lubed bullet of the correct hardness.
Not dissing your choice, just asking for why :)
Can't always correctly size and still have cartridges chamber freely, so you can go a bit undersize without leading like a good'un. Much less smoke. You can go faster at lower hardness. Less hassle than lubing individually. In rifles you can go much faster without a gas check, and at much lower hardness.
Interesting... being able to use softer lead could see better bore obturation.
Not sure I agree on the "less hassle than lubing individually" as it seems you are doing about a hundred every 20 minutes. Certainly, using a Lyman Lube Sizer, I can lazily lube one bullet every 5 seconds which works out at about a hundred in 9 minutes or so. But it could still be worthwhile....
Have you tested for accuracy - i.e. bullets from the same mould, one batch powder coated and one batch with the correct hardness / lube / size?
My interest is primarily around pistol calibre bullets for UK Gallery Rifle shooting. Not seeing many using powder coating for that use -case at the minute, but there could be something there...
If I had a bigger oven and bigger trays, I could do a lot more every 20 minutes. And I can drink tea during most of those minutes! :D
No, I've not tested for accuracy, but maybe I will do so one day. The difference in smoke is obvious when you're shooting.
Look forward to that video if you get round to it :)
Keep up the always interesting videos!
ATB, Kev.
Way too messy. I powder coat thousands and it is much cleaner than this method.