.017 - .020 is way too much for 30 cal. The reason it grew for you is because it's being stretched as you form the GC. I make my own GC makers in the same style. I use Amerimax and Gibraltar aluminum rolls and .0.013" - 0.014" thickness worked very well for me on Lee 155gr and 150 FN as well as half a dozen other 30 cal bullets. Pop cans are actually only .004" thick, ok for flat base gas checks only. My local Home Depot sold Gibraltar brand rolls and it was perfect around .013" but since Covid, they switched suppliers and now it's thinner at .011" and that in my experience doesn't want to stay put. Amerimax was sold in Ace Hardware, not sure anymore but it can be bought online. This one still says 0.014" on the label whereas the other one they actually removed the thickness from the label. As far as staying put, I found that its more difficult to install gas checks on PC bullets and PC tends to be slicker, and its harder for GC to stay put, also since you're using Lee lube that might be also the problem. I found no need for any lube to punch gas checks but if you think it really helps, make sure to wash it off later. What I do is I install GC on bare lead and then powder coat everything.
Oh yeah, one more thing. I found some aluminum sheets at local scrap yard from a print shop, they came in two sizes, one was around 11 thousands and works great for .357 / 9mm, it's too thin for 30 cal. Measuring thickness with calipers is not very accurate, it varies a lot and you'll get false readings. You need micrometer with ball attachment, the one I got from Harbor Freight is actually pretty good, it allows for more accurate readings.
Well done video! The format, edit etc. all good. I’m particularly impressed with the detail and actual part numbers of components used. Thanks for doing it!
.017 is pretty standard for factory checks. they also seem to have a barb on the inside top edge that embeds into the lead to hold them on. I've also tried checking first then powder coat. Seems more reliable.
Really great idea! Well done! Subscribed, bell rang, commented, liked, upvoted, shared .... may the algorithm gods smile favorably upon your channel friend. Thanks for the video. PS ETA: Guinness Stout Draft cans. The ones with the C0² cartridges inside. Also, when cutting the final strip, simply turn it around to cut off the thin strip.
Mine packed up after about 1000 checks. Now tears edges terribly. I believe the edges got damaged. Now going over to Pat Marlin As you can clean and avoid issues easier.
The best gas check maker I have was made by Dima Prok. I have a few by Pat Marlin and they work well but they are extremely time consuming to make. I have another I just had made by someone just starting off but it does a poor job and seems to shear. Dima Prok's check maker is absolutely the best. I need to get him to do a couple more for me. Great guy to do business with too. Oh, all I use is soda can aluminum.
One thing though, Gas checks are intended to prevent leading of the barrel, bullet lube is another method they use, but powder coating gives a smooth slippery shell to the lead bullet, therefor keeping the lead away from the barrel preventing leading of the barrel, so a gas check is not needed with powder coated bullets! So, is this a belt and suspenders thing or what?
There are a few benefits for the continued use of gas checks. You can increase the fps rather than treating it like a plated bullet. It also retains the benefits of reducing leading at higher pressures. Another advantage is certain powders degrade powder coatings overtime and this provides a physical barrier.
Powder coat isn't a replacement for gas checks... Not sure where that information gets confused. Gas erosion doesn't discriminate against a poly coating, lube or plain lead. It's all pressure based..
Use some coarse sandpaper on the inside side, so the lead/powdercoat will grip it better. Or use a thinner coat. Even just using razor blade scratches should do something. Also try using the bottom of a soda can, with the outside of can being inside of check, it's slightly thicker. Or put the aluminum in the oven for an hour to soften it up, and the soda cans
It depends on what you're going to do with it. For general lower velocity plinking I doubt it would be a problem. On the opposite side I'm looking to get into higher supersonic speeds. It's also cheap enough just to include a check regardless since you can make them for fractions of what store bought checks cost.
I would think that it doesn’t much matter how tight the check is, as long as it doesn’t fall off inside the case. The exploding powder should shove it up against the bullet nice and tightly when the round is fired.
@@kevinmarrett9532 The problem is with the Lee 155 bullet in 300blk. If you seat it to the crimp groove the check is below the bottleneck to securely hold it. It could be seated longer and have a exposed crimp groove but could run into a length issue. If you don't gas check it's not a problem but not recommended for higher pressures. Like you said it shouldn't be a problem but I don't want to risk it.
You're not the only person I have heard that's had a problem with the .22 sized check maker. I would try using some Lee resizing lubricant first. It's made for drawing metals and is water soluble to thin it out or clean up. It's repackaged Castrol Iloform PS 700 as shown on the MSDS link on Lee's website. If that doesn't work I would try annealing the aluminum. I have seen a UA-cam video in which a aluminum strip is heated up with a blowtorch until a permanent marker streak disappears and becomes more pliable. Overall without more first-hand experience It seems to be a material thickness problem rather than a cutting problem with the smaller .22 dimensions.
I wouldn't think there would be a problem since I have seen both aluminum and copper gas checks being sold. I have not had the opportunity used my homemade checks yet.
Try seating them in a lubrisizer ( RCBS, Star or Lyman. They push the bullet through base first. Use a top punch for the Lube-a-matic, or Turn up a bullet nose punch and push the bullet through the Lee die base first? Have you tried annealing the aluminium strip? Just a swipe of bar soap, then blowtorch, until the soap goes black. Quench in water. A dab of clear glue on the bullet base?
I have not tried annealing yet to reduce memory. Although I have experimented with super glue. I'm currently waiting to see if there's any reactions with powder coat degradation overtime. DimaProk who produces gas check dies suggested slightly thicker aluminum stock. I believe the aluminum I used is just not thick or strong enough to properly crimp and fill out the cup fully. This can be seen with that thicker aluminum sheet overflowing when crimped.
.017 - .020 is way too much for 30 cal. The reason it grew for you is because it's being stretched as you form the GC. I make my own GC makers in the same style. I use Amerimax and Gibraltar aluminum rolls and .0.013" - 0.014" thickness worked very well for me on Lee 155gr and 150 FN as well as half a dozen other 30 cal bullets.
Pop cans are actually only .004" thick, ok for flat base gas checks only. My local Home Depot sold Gibraltar brand rolls and it was perfect around .013" but since Covid, they switched suppliers and now it's thinner at .011" and that in my experience doesn't want to stay put. Amerimax was sold in Ace Hardware, not sure anymore but it can be bought online. This one still says 0.014" on the label whereas the other one they actually removed the thickness from the label.
As far as staying put, I found that its more difficult to install gas checks on PC bullets and PC tends to be slicker, and its harder for GC to stay put, also since you're using Lee lube that might be also the problem. I found no need for any lube to punch gas checks but if you think it really helps, make sure to wash it off later. What I do is I install GC on bare lead and then powder coat everything.
Oh yeah, one more thing. I found some aluminum sheets at local scrap yard from a print shop, they came in two sizes, one was around 11 thousands and works great for .357 / 9mm, it's too thin for 30 cal. Measuring thickness with calipers is not very accurate, it varies a lot and you'll get false readings. You need micrometer with ball attachment, the one I got from Harbor Freight is actually pretty good, it allows for more accurate readings.
That's Genius!
Just order yourself some .01 copper flashing. Powder coat after the checks are installed.
Maybe the powder coating is causing the checks to not crimp to the bullet, as they are designed, just saying.
Well done video! The format, edit etc. all good. I’m particularly impressed with the detail and actual part numbers of components used. Thanks for doing it!
Wonderful idea with the container. They should pay you for that idea!
.017 is pretty standard for factory checks. they also seem to have a barb on the inside top edge that embeds into the lead to hold them on. I've also tried checking first then powder coat. Seems more reliable.
whats your alloy mix??....what rifle?.....GC then PC & stop lube!
Put a small drop of Red Locktite in each check before he push it on. Will not come off.
What happen when not use gas check, the lead will melt inside the barrel ?
IS it possible the flashing material is galvanized steel, check with magnet, it looks like galvanized to me.
Tip #1 be smarter than the product you are going to use.
Nice idea to use a spice jar!
I wonder if a small dot of super glue would help the gas checks stay.
Really great idea! Well done! Subscribed, bell rang, commented, liked, upvoted, shared .... may the algorithm gods smile favorably upon your channel friend. Thanks for the video. PS ETA: Guinness Stout Draft cans. The ones with the C0² cartridges inside. Also, when cutting the final strip, simply turn it around to cut off the thin strip.
Mine packed up after about 1000 checks. Now tears edges terribly. I believe the edges got damaged. Now going over to Pat Marlin As you can clean and avoid issues easier.
What was the material and thickness that you used? Also I was thinking you could try to hone the edge with a ball bearing and some grinding compound.
The best gas check maker I have was made by Dima Prok. I have a few by Pat Marlin and they work well but they are extremely time consuming to make. I have another I just had made by someone just starting off but it does a poor job and seems to shear. Dima Prok's check maker is absolutely the best. I need to get him to do a couple more for me. Great guy to do business with too. Oh, all I use is soda can aluminum.
CAT! Can’t help you there I only use copper gator checks. 🤷♀️
One thing though, Gas checks are intended to prevent leading of the barrel, bullet lube is another method they use, but powder coating gives a smooth slippery shell to the lead bullet, therefor keeping the lead away from the barrel preventing leading of the barrel, so a gas check is not needed with powder coated bullets!
So, is this a belt and suspenders thing or what?
There are a few benefits for the continued use of gas checks. You can increase the fps rather than treating it like a plated bullet. It also retains the benefits of reducing leading at higher pressures. Another advantage is certain powders degrade powder coatings overtime and this provides a physical barrier.
Powder coat isn't a replacement for gas checks... Not sure where that information gets confused. Gas erosion doesn't discriminate against a poly coating, lube or plain lead. It's all pressure based..
Use some coarse sandpaper on the inside side, so the lead/powdercoat will grip it better. Or use a thinner coat. Even just using razor blade scratches should do something.
Also try using the bottom of a soda can, with the outside of can being inside of check, it's slightly thicker. Or put the aluminum in the oven for an hour to soften it up, and the soda cans
Do you really need a gas check on a power coated 30 caliber bullet hard cast
It depends on what you're going to do with it. For general lower velocity plinking I doubt it would be a problem. On the opposite side I'm looking to get into higher supersonic speeds. It's also cheap enough just to include a check regardless since you can make them for fractions of what store bought checks cost.
Look into a local printer and use printing plates
How is optics planet still in business
Volume volume volume!!!!!!!!
I would think that it doesn’t much matter how tight the check is, as long as it doesn’t fall off inside the case. The exploding powder should shove it up against the bullet nice and tightly when the round is fired.
@@kevinmarrett9532 The problem is with the Lee 155 bullet in 300blk. If you seat it to the crimp groove the check is below the bottleneck to securely hold it. It could be seated longer and have a exposed crimp groove but could run into a length issue. If you don't gas check it's not a problem but not recommended for higher pressures. Like you said it shouldn't be a problem but I don't want to risk it.
is that steel or aluminum flashing material for gas checks?
Aluminum. I'm still looking for slightly thicker material around 0.015 - 0.017 for a better fit.
They definitely need to be tight, you don't want to leave one in the barrel, could be a bad situation.
I don’t think that is even possible, if it falls off in the cartridge when you seat the bullet it may become a issue
I have this in .22. My problem is with flashing it wants to cut the bottom of the check off. Pop can they come out great. What do you suggest
You're not the only person I have heard that's had a problem with the .22 sized check maker. I would try using some Lee resizing lubricant first. It's made for drawing metals and is water soluble to thin it out or clean up. It's repackaged Castrol Iloform PS 700 as shown on the MSDS link on Lee's website.
If that doesn't work I would try annealing the aluminum. I have seen a UA-cam video in which a aluminum strip is heated up with a blowtorch until a permanent marker streak disappears and becomes more pliable.
Overall without more first-hand experience It seems to be a material thickness problem rather than a cutting problem with the smaller .22 dimensions.
do you run into any issues with aluminum fouling in the barrel? Most of the time, gas checks are copper.
I wouldn't think there would be a problem since I have seen both aluminum and copper gas checks being sold. I have not had the opportunity used my homemade checks yet.
Good job!What is the thickness of copper that you used in milimiters?
The copper is 0.5mm on the factory edge. In the video I measured on a cut edge so it was a little thicker.
@@williamganley4739 Thanks 👍
...I'm impressed - I subscribed...
I don’t care how you store the die. I just want to see how it’s used.
Exactly
Cool tool, just seems to be a sourcing problem on type of material. Thanks.
I have seen the suggested sizes of 0.017 to 0.020 inch flashing is recommended. Like you said the problem is finding good local sources.
Once I started powder coating I no longer have a need for gas checks. I can run full power or reduced loads without any issues in all calibers.
Perhaps the smallest dot of hot glue as you size them.
I was thinking super glue but with my luck I'd probably glue my fingers together. Perhaps red loctite.
That paper cutter is great for cutting sandwiches and salami too. My wife uses it to chop pickle slices..so.
Interesting product.
Try seating them in a lubrisizer ( RCBS, Star or Lyman. They push the bullet through base first. Use a top punch for the Lube-a-matic, or Turn up a bullet nose punch and push the bullet through the Lee die base first? Have you tried annealing the aluminium strip? Just a swipe of bar soap, then blowtorch, until the soap goes black. Quench in water. A dab of clear glue on the bullet base?
I have not tried annealing yet to reduce memory. Although I have experimented with super glue. I'm currently waiting to see if there's any reactions with powder coat degradation overtime. DimaProk who produces gas check dies suggested slightly thicker aluminum stock. I believe the aluminum I used is just not thick or strong enough to properly crimp and fill out the cup fully. This can be seen with that thicker aluminum sheet overflowing when crimped.
what do u do when that maker gets dull?
🤘🏼💪🏼👍🏼
Where did you order this dies ?
Optics Planet. They're also available from other vendors.
Great video thank you.