How an industry Titan ripped off the BluGuitar AMP 1
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- Опубліковано 23 чер 2024
- Welcome to The Tone Lounge Podcast. In this clip, Frank and I talk with Thomas Blug of BluGuitar about how one of the big British amp companies cloned one of his AMP 1 amplifiers, and the impact that it had on his company.
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🔴Be sure to check out other clips from our longer format episode in this playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLclfX7JyH3GAQKpweSYuFOH_UB2dHy7co.html
📽 Watch the full length episodes here: ua-cam.com/play/PLclfX7JyH3GA3CFbG-2pOYrEtDp-qfywa.html
Blu amps are awesome.. people just blind to see the genius this guy gives the industry.. still wiating for him to be done with the one we all have been waiting for yrs
Thomas is such a great guy. Humble, taking the high road, totally void of any malice. Not only that his amps are second to none.
Yeah, he's a great dude. Very knowledgeable and super kind, too.
I just love the philosophy, integrity and mindset of Thomas Blug and his company, and also his thoughts about things outside his and his company's space. Very humble with his criticism.
Just watch the guy play; genuine. He is so genuine in what he loves and does.
Thomas came to demo the Amp1 at my local guitar shop. His passion and innovation led me to buy the amplifier, along with the speaker emulator box.
He deserves the recognition both intellectually and financially.
100% agreed! He's a great guy and brilliant, too.
Played a Blackstar for years. Was a big fan. After this shitty attempt I will never play a Blackstar product again.
What gear were you playing from them?
Bullshit
The AMP-1 Mercury Edition is the next thing on my to-buy list. I am a big fan of Thomas Blug and BluGuitar, I watch his podcast every week.
I had the Iridium for a few weeks and it's a GREAT amp. I really want to try the Mercury too. Only reason I don't still have it is because I had a bad case of option paralysis. It has so many great sounds you get stuck trying to have all of them at the same time and the amp just doesn't work like that.
On the other hand, while I won't entertain the blackstar Amped 1/2, I did enjoy the HT Stage 100 that I demo'd on my channel. I think for a 3 channel tube amp with built in cabinet simulation that you can configure on your computer via a companion software app and run the amp without a cabinet for under $1000, there's really not much else on the market quite like it in that price range. The Mesa MK VII can do all of that but at a significantly higher cost.
I did not know this. I'm happy that I don't use Blackstar.
What gear are you rocking?
Really puts all those youtube demos of the "amped1" in perspective.
Right?
@@ToneLoungePodcast I've always wanted a blu amp1 iridium as an emergency gig backup, probably time to get one
I might (gasp) buy it new, just to support Thomas. It would be my 3rd or 4th time not buying used in 30 years 😂
I love my 2015 Amp1 Silver and was ok with the HT series by Blackstar (HT1 for practice and HT5 for home use). However, the company lost out with me big time when they ripped of the branding with their choice of naming the pedal amp so obviously as a rip off. That my Blackstars are developing PCB board issues after 5 years of use adds on to make it easy to say Good Bye to this manufacturer. Bluguitar will stay with me!
Jonathan Here. My only experience with Blackstar is the HT-1M and I found it to be surprisingly great for such a small amp. I have yet to try any of Thomas' stuff, but it's on my to-do list.
Dear Mr Blug, I hope you have all the patents you need for the new Amp X
you can't patent a circuit Serkan, anyone can open a device , put the same components in the same order and sell it - my Klon clone is just that
@@frankcarter6427he can patent the product as intellectual property. The Amp X isn’t just circuits, it’s an amp, modeler, IR loader and multiFX board. There are heads that are similar, but as a pedalboard product, he has a claim. The problem is that patents can take a while to get and there’s no rule against another entity applying for the same patent which would either lock up or toss out the process. I went through this process years ago with a speaker design so I have a little insight into how the process works.
@@frankcarter6427You can copyright a circuit if it is a unique design! Just because there are clones out there doesn’t mean they aren’t breaching copyright, it just means in many cases the copyright owner doesn’t have the will or finances to litigate.
@@jasonlewis5350 then why didn't he?
@@frankcarter6427 because he's not interested in law suits, or even money. His full focus is on getting GREAT TONE.
I hope the amp X will be a huge success. Thomas deserves it, he really goes the extra mile. It’s on my radar for sure.
I discovered Thomas Blug at the Frankfürt Musik Messe a couple decades ago and I was amazed. Awesome player. 🤠
Btw I'm all for avoiding digitallization when it's not necessary and can simply be done with analog circuitry. Some compression, saturation and filtering, I don't believe you need digitallization.
Same here! :)
That’s sad and pathetic. I hope he finds legal recourse, but it is probably difficult for a single person to afford a fight against a much larger company. That sucks. This, for me, too, completely changes my view of Blackstar. I’ll never buy anything from them.
I'll third and fourth that.
Oh shit, this does change my view of Blackstar as a whole..
This man is a genius and I feel he is not given the props he deserve because people but listen with their eyes and not with their ears. They need a brand name to trust the quality of the product. Truth be told this fella has been ahead of the game for way longer but now when Blackstar rips the same product now they are interested.
I heard a couple of his amps and was blown away, I would gladly play one.
I am surprised Bugera-Behringer’s Uli hadn’t ripped Blugamps, too.
It's OK to use the same recipe, but you'll have to use your own ingredients and season it to your own taste. Blackstar obviously just raided Thomas Blugs fridge.
Good point!
To be honest, Taurus Amps made pedalboard amps long before all other brands and they are still the most legit ones in this field. I have nothing against the other brands, probably I could live with a Blackstar too but the Taurus Classic is what I like.
You gotta love this guy. I am skeptical of any advantage over digital modeling other than less latency. A model is only as good as the algorithm, but I am psych'd about the amp X.
Yes, mainly latency. But this is very critical as it gives a huge difference in feel.
After years of line6 in my living room, I bought a Delta King to indeed enjoy the directness of an analog Amp. Very noticeable with certain sound choices and styles of pkaying.
A Blu One amp and 4x12 Marshal bottom totally rocks. Thomas you rock, BlueStar-Bad
Thomas is a legend 👊🏻 I want an AmpX when it’s released
This unfortunately happens in this industry. JHS did it for years and claimed it was his own, designs Vertex didi it, the list goes on. A lot of amp companies try to get away with it, copying exact layouts and components.
TB is a class act on so many levels!
The Amped 1 seems a lot different, other than the name (and apparently the transformer). It is also marketed as an amp platform for amp modeling pedals.
I love my Blu Guitar Iridium. Thomas is a genius and I love his perspective and knowledge.
I personally hate copies of other people hard work. Blackstar will never get my money for sure.
Mr Blug got it wrong about the 39k cold clipper resistor and who inspired whom though. Soldano SLO100 predates Peavey 5150 by about 5 years (1987/1992) so there is no doubt that Peavey where steeling it from, or got inspired by, Soldano.
I owned the Amp 1 Mercury for a little over a year but sold it as I was planning to buy the Amp X but still waiting. I am very much missing the Mercury now.
Sounds like you need both units ;)
I saw a blues (-ish) band a few months ago, and i went to talk to the guitar player to ask how he got his amazing sound. He pointed to the Blu-G pedal amp, and the Blu-G 1×12 cab, and he said thats all he ever uses live... i have rarely heard a a guitar sound better then through this amp! I'm seriously looking into saving up an getting one, since it is an all-in-one solution for both performing and recording! So i'd like to give my compliments to mister Blug for making products that sound this good, and are still more affordable than most combo amps!
Precisely! Portable and great sounding, with an appealing price point, is 100% something I'd love to rock.
Never knew this! I saw a demo of pedalboard size power amps and the black star amped 1 sound best compared to others (the Blu wasn’t featured). No wonder as it’s based of the Blu
It seems to be a pretty successful product for them.
I tried the Blackstar version and was absolutely trash. Immediately returned it. 😊
no you didn't
I friggen LOVE MY MERCURY AMP 1. ITS ABSOLUTLY KILLER. 4 CHANNELS AND THE ABILITY TO GET SOOOOOO MANY TONES. FROM AC30 TO HIGH GAIN. THOMAS IS SO GENUINE. IVE HAD IT FOR 7 MONTHS AND STILL TWEEKING. BUY ONE!!!!!!!
I happen to love all the Blu products. I did sell my AMP 1 and Mercury Edition but, only because Im waiting on the latest magic box to be released. I have also been using 2 Blackstar Silverline 212 stereo combos for quite awhile. Love them. Finding this info out puts me in a pickle. I know, there are plenty of copies of so many pedals and amps. Just burns my ass that a company very capable of designing their own products, has to steal/ copy.
If you love their products, then don't let that influence you. It's all business and these folks can sort things out amicably.
I'd be really curious about Thomas' take on the Hughes and Kettner Ampman series, given that he has history with them. It's a pretty impressive product IMO, and it seems like they kept it all in the analog realm as well.
I think that Thomas is a very reflective person when it comes to the landscape of gear out there. He knows that other companies (including his former employer) are trying to compete with him in the very category he created. But he’s also aware (and this is just my subjective view on things) that his product is pretty superior in direct comparison, simply because he’s very demanding in the field process of development and doesn’t cut corners.
So if anyone can answer this question, I’d appreciate it: I own (and use quite frequently) a Blackstar Amped 2. Does this device use any of Mr. Blug’s proprietary technology? Or is it only the Amped 1?
Thomas is a great man. I hope he gets justice. If it helps, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. Maybe someone else will do the same, but under license. There are oodles of Marshall amp clones because they are fantastic, like AMP 1.
I'm not saying that this is cool. It is absolutely not! But at the end of the day, being copied (kind of) by a company like Blackstar, is also a very big compliment to Thomas, that he created an outstanding product that is very useful for many guitar players.
Digital improves all of the time and if it can do great things and cheaply then wonderful. Analog if it sounds better and can top digital without question and you want to pay the extra cost and weight expense then fine as well. I like the digital idea of unlimited sounds, small package, low cost, control availability etc. I'm sure what Thomas Blug is doing is also wonderful and I would no doubt enjoy using it.
He should be able to sue them for millions, and immediately shut down the production of their pieces of S!!! A holes! Unable to create their own idea.!
you can't patent a circuit and the copy isn't pretending to be a bluguitar product - tough, but he just has to deal with it.
What a nice guy.
He definitely is the most humble person ever!
Brutus admits to having purchased Joyo pedals exactly like Tech 21's "character series." That said, not everyone can afford $100+ per pedal.
This is something I didn’t know and gives credibility to Blackstar. You can see Blu amp amps are still holding better resale value
Yeah, the BluGuitar stuff is a wise investment, and hold a great resale value.
Man ...so sorry Mr Blug you deserve more respect than that...I'm sorry this happened to you...🙏🏼
Love my Mercury.......but wish I could find a 1Contro in the US!
Have you contacted Thomas for a 1Control?
I love Thomas and his products (I’m holding my gas to buy amp x if it ever releases 🥶) but what did they copy beside the output transformer? Because he did talk just about the power transformer and you can’t claim a copy from a single component …
That's pretty disgusting. Reminds of the Vertex scam, although it was not identical as the guy used the same component, hidden in melted resin and called it his own. If Thomas can't sue them for reverse engineering and using same spec'ed components, it's really unfair and tough. The icing on the cake is naming it Amped 1 (and 2) which is adding insult to offence...
Thomas makes great products and you get what you pay for. I wish him lots of luck for his AMP X and hope he'll sell so many that it will bury the copycats under tons of shame (and lost market shares as I doubt they can any feel any guilt...)
I had 2 Bluguitar Amp1 and both went up in a puff of smoke. I would never trust them again.
After over 40 years of pro touring with Marshall amps, five years of touring the BluGuitar Amp1 has convinced me to sell my Marshall backline and I won't be going back.
Just the name Amped 1 struck me as a cheap plagiarism of an existing product's brand name.
Now to discover that Blackstar has ripped off some of the internal, BluGuitar design bespoke architecture has totally disgusted and angered me.
Thomas Blug should sue.
However, having heard UA-cam demos by my usual go-to product reviewers it is totally obvious that Blackstar have another low rent piece crap on their hands that sounds l totally synthetic.
May as well plug into a Line 6 Spider 🤮
Yeah, the Blackstar does not seem to hold up well against the Amp1, or other pedalboard amps we could mention.
At 4:34 - 5:40, Mr. Blug states they aren't the same. He clearly states the way different sections of the Blackstar are implemented are clearly different.
Yes, it’s the power amp section they ripped off, specifically the output transformer.
Does somebody knows here when the BluGuitar "AMP X" will be out for sale...???????????
Not that it's any cancellation, Blackstar makes very so-so amps nor are they any sort of "Titan" in my mind. That's just a "what were you thinking" moment for Blackstar. I hope you get paid for any lost revenue and punitive damages. I dont think backstar is going to survive this economic downturn though, many of these mid companies probably wont.
I greatly appreciate the burning pursuit for the 'authentic' tonal excellence of Mr Blug's products, it's a bit rough to be even partially ripped of by anyone let alone an inferior company, Blackstar's are nice for certain applications but when most is said and done a bit like even Boss they more supply modellers in an amp cab with a speaker or two on board.
The thing I'd like a serious open and honest reply about is WHY do most gravitate to referring to IR's as IR's?? would it be more honest and simple to refer to such as perhaps C.S.'s instead....as in Cab Simulation/s
I've got both Amp1 and Iridium models and they are fantastic! I still use my Bogner, Matchless and CAA heads but so many gigs now suit a smaller rig and Tomas's amps sound great at any level. F@#k BlackStar! 🤟😎
Jonathan Here! I never played any of the BluGuitar stuff but Frank has and tells me they are awesome.
Bluguitar Amp 1 is the real thing, forget the others.
to me one more reason buying a AMP 1
I just was about to try one of their tiny practice amps. Not any more. I’ll spend my (hard earned) cash somewhere else.
There's a lot of great products out there. It's a great time to be a guitarist.
Blackstar's "version" will most likely break down after a short period of time.
Unfortunately unless you have a patent on something it's virtually impossible to stop this from happening. It definitely sucks though
100% part of the game, unfortunately.
Cheyenah steals everything
so when is thing thing finally available???
According to Thomas, inside this year finally!
Keeping an eye on Thomas since his pioneering amp1 first floor amp... Looking firward to see the ampX beast finally out when ready... This is truly a pathetic move by blackstar. Great to hear this detailed information.. Thank you for the heads up on the assholery
We are super excited to see the AmpX coming as well! :)
@@ToneLoungePodcast Pardon if I missed it, but what are the thoughts on HK black spirit series from Blug's perspective, especially being a specialist for HK for years?
I am not sure what Thomas thinks, but it was very obvious when, as soon as Thomas was gaining traction with the Amp1, H&K suddenly had a huge interest in making a similar product line around high-wattage compact amps...but so did other manufacturers.
I have two Blackstar (1W and 60W) will never buy another one. Iam very disappointed
Direct copying and then modifying in a way that takes away the main USP of Amp 1 (the direct 'Amp like' feel, aka no added ADDA latencies) defies my understanding. No 20 years of experience needed, should be trivial to any pedal developer.
If this was a price or marketing based decision, they underestimated the musical skill set of those guitar players buying high end/high priced pedals like this.
In the end this seems to play out well for Thomas in the long run.
the guy who started Blackstar was a former Marshall employee, it just makes you wonder how many designs he stole from them. Mr. Blug should look into suing the shite out of Blackstar for infringement and blatantly stealing his design.
Unfortunate this was done to Thomas. I’ve used an Amp1 a few times and they are great products. Also, fail on Blackstar for not even innovating on the design - could’ve added an IR loader 🙄
It's a tough environment to be designing innovative circuits in, with the likes of Behringer ripping off Moog to the point of finishing them off as a viable independent instrument maker. I think this issue of circuit designs being not as protectable as software is why in the modular synthesizer world, many innovative makers have pivoted to making quite advanced digital or hybrid modules. Another example, from the pedal world, is pedals like Chase Bliss Mood / Mood mk.II. It's harder for people to clone those. Apart from cases like Mutable Instruments modules, where the software is intentionally open source. But I get that isn't an option for analog focused builders. Maybe the hybrid analog with advanced digital aspects is a more viable approach, going forward, knowing what unscrupolous outfits are capable of.
Truly, it's not Behringer who finished off Moog, it's everyone who bought from them instead of Moog. I bought the XR18 mixer to use with my band and they claimed you could control it wirelessly with an iPad. The wireless encryption tech is like 20 years old, been cracked for a long time or it's open. Then they were rude when I asked why not a better wireless protocol and said well, you can add another wireless router. Don't buy from Behringer.
100% agreed!!!
Yip, had a Voyager, couldnt afford to keep it. Later got a Behringer Model D, but didn't like the build quality. Last year got a Grandmother and love it, especially with my modular. It's unfair that software has protections that circuits so not. And maybe partly why we have so much digital tech, cheaper to manufacture often too
@@Scott__C It's true that Behringer wouldn't be able to do if there weren't customer willing to buy it up. But, then even so, I suspect the majority of Behringer customers aren't aware of their business practices, haven't thought it beyond what's affordable to them. As for me, had a Moog Voyager RME, but had to sell it because I needed the money. Later bought a Behringer Model D, sounded good, but hated the build quality compromises. Later, bought a Grandmother and love that. That's the sad thing about Moog, they were making their best instruments since the originial Minimoog, with the One, Matriarch & Grandmother. Now I hear they've discontinued the Moog One. Sad, but not good. I suppose soon we'll see Marshall, for example, doing the same with say the JCM800 reissues, maybe a little after they hike the prices by 1k.
So you are saying I should get the BlackStar amp….. Classic😊
Your money, your call.
You know if AMP1 would have had an IR loader included it would have smoked everyone :(
I understand the point, but that's how this works. Look how many companies are making Strats, Gibsons, and let's not forget all the companies making Marshalls.
Very true. Basing a product on something that already exists is alright, as long as it's not so close that it is almost a 1:1 copy.
I am sorry to say I never put that together,but now,it’s obvious…Amp1..Amped1….I have used the Amped 1 Blackstar,and thought it sounded good,I just didn’t think about it being a copy of the BluGuitar..but it does not surprise me..Mesa copied Mike Soldano’s SLO preamp verbatim with the Recto amps..
Roland did something similar to Greg Wirges, but they intentionally ran him out of business while stealing his tech.
Oh shit! How did they do that?
Guitar related companies are falling all around l. Gibson (unable to produce the quality they once did and getting a CEO unrelated to the industry), fender (fired around 300 people and forced retailers to get lower quality products), black star (stealing intellectual property), Marshall (switching focus to merch like headphones). Very few people are actually doing stuff for the players Blug and the guys from JHS pedals.
That stinks… this guy was putting out an incredible simulator years ago that was ahead of its time in real amp feel & tone.
I’m only buying from Thomas period!
Awesome!
I bought a Blackstar amp a few years back. It worked for all of 10mins, before breaking. Sent it back immediately and have never touched anything by them again.
Unfortunately, Behringer are leading the way in unashamedly ripping people off and having their practices be defended by their fanboys. The death of innovation is coming.
Maybe you are right. We shouldn't forget that guitar may morph into something different in the coming years, and we may see new innovations and designs that may be easier to copyright.
I use the Amp1 Mercury Edition from Thomas for my #majikband It’s an excellent amp
Sue them to change their name to Black and Blu Star Amplification
I’ve never liked Blackstar, I’ve had a few amps and never liked the sound of them.
fact is - I'm going to buy the blackstar, it's a great product at a great price - Blug isn't losing a sale b/c his amp is way too expensive for me to consider, but I wish him well
Fair point!
Never really liked Blackstar in the first place. Now even more.
👍👍👍
Humble and being nice about it - but they ripped him off. Full stop.
Well I use mainly digital. Analog Drive pedal /Nam / EQ / IR's thru FRFR's so I'm stealing everyone's tone. lol Take that blackstar !!
Black Star is a brand that tries it's hardest to claw for relevance since tbh I find they make very generic sounding amps. Idk anyone that cares about Black Star. So I'm not surprised they had to resort to stealing from an actual popular and superior amp design in order to remain relevant
Blackstar copied the Bluguitar, and still made something that doesn't come close to the real thing ! :)
Made in China by ex-Marshall guys.
What is the Bluguitar or Blackstar ?
@@benallmark9671Blackstar
@@benallmark9671 Blackstar, ex-Marshall guys.
It’s a shame that a small producer is being copied and ripped off.
On the other hand: it’s daily practice in the amp world. We all know that the first Marshall amps were copies of Fender amps, with parts available in England…. And there are more stories.
And about condemning Uli Behringer: he does not mainly actual synths, but old gear that isn’t easily available on the market anymore. So instead of buying a vintage Juno synth, I’d rather buy a copy with warranty…
One company in the guitar industry copying another? The first time I see it, I can't believe it
Despite the sarcasm, you have to keep in mind that Thomas dedicated years of research on his pedalboard amp, only for a more successful company to copy his work. Usually small companies copy the big ones, not the other way around.
@@ToneLoungePodcast Yeah and all early Marshall's are Fender amps. If they broke a copyright law then they should be held to account. If they didn't then Blug should have protected his design more.
That happens in every industry. Before the iPhone came out, all other phones were either flip phones or copies of Blackberry. After iPhone, pretty much all phones copied the iPhone. And they had patents. Heck, all computers are derived from Xerox had in the early 1970s but didn't want to market because they were making lots of money.
The concept is the same, and has been around for a long while, long before Blug. The Blackstar doesn't claim to use a Valve, and doesn't have a Nano/tube/valve in it. The Nanovalve/Nanotube is something that Vox worked with a Loooooong time ago. I am not seeing teh issue with Blug? The products are the same only in concept, not in actual electrical topology. Unless Blug's Nanotube is just for looks....
You'd have to re-watch the longer format of this podcast to get that answer.
I had a Blackstar when they first came out and loved it. Now I will never own another one. This is just wrong, I hope he can sue them.
Didn't like Blackstar because a few techs on YT showed us the guts of their amps and it's computerised solid state amps with planed obsolescence but this is making the matter worth...
Shame on this company!
This is kind of what happens when a bigger guy or company rips off a smaller company or innovator like Edison flipping off Tesla or Marconi ripping off Tesla. I like when the true innovator gets credit. Look at Geoffrey McCabe with his tremelo he developed and fighting Ibanez and winning! Blackstar took a cheap shot at this guy!
The Black Star doesn't sound/feel as good as the Amp-1
You did an A/B comparison between both?
Now I'm not sure what country Thomas is from...based on his accent, I would guess Germany, but that's just a guess. Are there any laws that would protect him, like proof of time of creation, and then show that they copied verbatim his amp design that he came up with way before Black Star came out, and started selling their copycat amp? At least be granted a per diem of a portion of compensation for units sold?
If not patented then there's no chance.
Circuitry cannot be copyrighted. Naming and branding is a Trademark issue.
Behringer would be out of business then.
@@wabisabi7399 it can't be patented, it can only be copyrighted and blackstar aren't pretending it's a Bluguitar product - go on the internet, there's 1000s of green tube screamer clones - same circuit, similar case, different name, lower price - completely legal and good for the consumer
@@matthewf1979 yep - my Klon and tubescreamer copies are examples of just that
Never bought Blackstar and never will…
i lost my place here... what company is copying his amp now?
The AMPED-1 is said to be very close to the the BluGuitar AMP-1
Take care. While Blackstar is not by any means an ‘industry titan’ as you describe them they probably now have a legal claim against the channel and Thomas Blug for defamation or similar.
Really? What, are you a lawyer or something? Or do you know more than Blackstar and Thomas about this?
I think this kind of reverse engineering goes on a lot, I know for a fact a certain Californian guitar company released an OD pedal copied the MI Crunch Box, it was an identical circuit so the next version Michael printed a message to them on the circuit board 🤣
Hahaha, certainly a good way to deal with it if you have a sense of humour!
Your comment caught my attention as I really dig the Crunchbox and would like to get one....but it appears they are no longer in production?/hard to find. What California company are you referring too? I've heard the JHS Angry Charlie is a Crunchbox circuit and I'm aware of the cheaper clones on the market ect.....But who else is making a high quality Crunchbox clone?
How about a BluBass?
I am telling Thomas to do that for some time now. 😬
I still have the original Amp One and I’ll never part with it.
Very cool!