BEST LAPTOPS for Music Production 2024 - The Ultimate Guide

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  • Опубліковано 5 жов 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 137

  • @mjl5777
    @mjl5777 5 місяців тому +241

    finally someone explaining this stuff in english and not tech gibberish

    • @thozimusic
      @thozimusic  5 місяців тому +15

      😂😂

    • @AlphaGen-r8f
      @AlphaGen-r8f 3 місяці тому +2

      True

    • @ChrisMoore-rd7ct
      @ChrisMoore-rd7ct 2 місяці тому +3

      I swear bro. I've been shopping for 2wks and this man has me so confident in his recommendations it's crazy

    • @JohannesNielsen
      @JohannesNielsen Місяць тому

      ​@thozimusic Now, do those specs again after you add a swap disc and an external Graphics card to take the load off the system.
      Then look at Core count on the Chip set which is specific to Ableton.
      After your done with that swap out to Ubuntu Studio and load Reaper and re test your benchmarks

    • @mr.vibes938
      @mr.vibes938 День тому +1

      I SWEAR I said the same thing

  • @busyworksbeats
    @busyworksbeats 4 місяці тому +70

    What an AWESOME video! Thank you for sharing the knowledge and perfect editing!

    • @thozimusic
      @thozimusic  4 місяці тому +13

      Aye!! Got a comment from the king himself! Thank you brother, it really means a lot coming from you 🙏🏿

    • @jonahbranton4899
      @jonahbranton4899 3 місяці тому +3

      The yt goat

    • @Vlone947
      @Vlone947 Місяць тому +2

      Damn Busy really everywhere

    • @Sapph3yre
      @Sapph3yre Місяць тому

      I second this.

  • @cameronvanrooyen4882
    @cameronvanrooyen4882 Місяць тому +10

    Awesome to see a South African Tech and Music channel, right in my ball park. Great video and you got a new sub😎🔥

  • @LTNZbeats
    @LTNZbeats 3 місяці тому +12

    pc user here but one thing that really sets mac apart from windows is the native audio circuit, mac gives you studio level latency and quality with no work. on windows you have to work for it by configuring your audio devices

    • @LTNZbeats
      @LTNZbeats 3 місяці тому

      although the bigger part of this isnt an issue unless you're trying to sing / play along to record additional stuff into the track.

    • @DBTHEPLUG
      @DBTHEPLUG Місяць тому +1

      Mac's trash. You could get any VST you'd ever want for free without any hassle on Windows if we're talking about what sets apart one platform from the other...
      Besides that, it's all about the CPU. For the price of a Mac, you could get a Windows laptop with an equivalent cpu + a gpu or a Windows laptop with a better cpu.

    • @DBTHEPLUG
      @DBTHEPLUG Місяць тому +1

      And doesn't configuring your audio devices take like 2 minutes? This is real life bro, not everything SHOULD be easy and as quick as possible.

  • @agapetheprodigalraqah
    @agapetheprodigalraqah 16 днів тому

    Thank you kindly for the video. I'm also a fellow African, though I was raised in the US. Nice to see more African UA-camrs. I'm trying to get back into Music and building a budget for a mobile studio. One Love and Jah Bless my friend! Thanks for the easy to follow breakdown.

  • @cya_kingz5362
    @cya_kingz5362 4 місяці тому +9

    Finally someone with a Sputh African accent making content I like

  • @myekuntz
    @myekuntz 5 місяців тому +15

    My budget was $300 and doing great with a used t470 i7 500gb 32gb of ram plus I just found out it’s a touchscreen 😊

    • @stormyd9067
      @stormyd9067 Місяць тому

      How is it holding up now?

    • @vk2loco
      @vk2loco 22 години тому

      Is it still holding up good rn?

  • @OfficialLegendBStacks
    @OfficialLegendBStacks 4 місяці тому +6

    Bro you answered all my questions! You have a new subscriber from today! Cheers mate👍🏾

    • @thozimusic
      @thozimusic  4 місяці тому

      Thank you so much! I’m glad the video was helpful

  • @zach358
    @zach358 3 місяці тому +4

    Heya, thank you for the explanation on the differences between Mac and PC laptops regarding music production. I did not know about the M1 processor, either.

  • @thisismirage
    @thisismirage 5 місяців тому +6

    Just to add, a bit more technical advantage for Mac: The native CoreAudio Driver. Its more reliable than the standard Windows Audio driver, so its better to use ASIO on Windows. But the Mac default audio driver is really good and its less likely to fail in situations like live performances or recording sessions.
    Love you Thozi

    • @thozimusic
      @thozimusic  5 місяців тому

      Ha ha thank you man! It’s the results of listening to Sir Mirage when he speaks 😅😌

    • @DBTHEPLUG
      @DBTHEPLUG Місяць тому

      Who the hell even uses the default Windows audio driver for music production...?
      That shit has a static hiss that's quietly playing in the background. Use an audio interface!

  • @renzpaulobaltazar
    @renzpaulobaltazar Місяць тому +3

    Recommended Specs:
    CPU:
    Windows: Intel i5/i7
    Mac: M1/M2/M3
    RAM:
    Windows: 16gb/32gb
    Mac: 8gb/16gb
    GPU:
    Windows: RTX/GTX/Built In Graphics
    Mac: Built in Graphics
    STORAGE:
    SSD 500gb/1TB

  • @the-architect7789
    @the-architect7789 День тому

    This might be the best explanation on the topic on youtube!!

  • @comotuabogada
    @comotuabogada 2 місяці тому +3

    Awesome video. Very clear. Thanks so much❤❤

  • @donnewesso788
    @donnewesso788 Місяць тому +2

    WOW bru, the way you explain it is amazing

  • @finefinelemonlime523
    @finefinelemonlime523 24 дні тому

    I’m in the research phase before I hop out and make music, figured I’d start with a laptop. This video was PERFECT!!! Thank you!

  • @Sapph3yre
    @Sapph3yre Місяць тому

    This video needs an award.🎖️Broken down, very simple.
    I now understand what these components mean. After watching many videos of jumble and info dump on computers, this video made my decision very very clear. Now Im at peace. Thank you.🕊️
    Also, I so appreciate you giving actual recommendations and not the standard "its up to you"
    Keep up the awesome work!

  • @mannypleaserelax
    @mannypleaserelax 4 місяці тому +4

    So clear & well spoken. Shouts to you my brother🫡👏🏾

    • @thozimusic
      @thozimusic  4 місяці тому +1

      Thank you for watching bro, glad the video was useful

  • @wak3upeman
    @wak3upeman 5 місяців тому +9

    thanks so much, this is the most helpful video I’ve seen on this topic

  • @VictorGaleskas
    @VictorGaleskas 3 місяці тому +16

    Do not buy M2 Pro or M3 Pro. Save yourself some money and get the M1 Pro as it is proved it’s the best ARM processor for music production.

    • @gman4life130
      @gman4life130 4 дні тому

      I have an M1 Mac and it always crashes when opening fl studio. Sometimes I need to delete and do a fresh install of the software.

  • @juanfragueiroaramburu
    @juanfragueiroaramburu 4 місяці тому +4

    I’m a musician with fairly good musical equipment and basic knowledge of DAW’s (Studio One) but I plan on taking a course on music production soon. My concern about the Air is the lack of ventilation - for what I’ve read - so I’m leaning towards getting a MacBook Pro 16” (need the extra visuals) with an M3 Pro chip (18 GB ram, 512 storage). Looking to invest around 2500. Do you genuinely think the Air M1 would satisfy a singer, pianist and podcaster who also wants to produce eventually? I’d rather stretch the wallet (somehow) than sweat it later for having wanted to save a buck 😅 Thanks man. Great video btw!

    • @thozimusic
      @thozimusic  4 місяці тому +3

      Ha ha I know exactly how you feel, and yes I do genuinely feel like the air is enough. I covered this in my “is the m1 still good enough in 2024” video. You can watch it if you have time but basically all I say in that video is: everytime a new Mac comes out, they say so many things that Mac the older ones look like a bad purchase but in reality, they’re more than enough

    • @SgtBoudreau
      @SgtBoudreau 3 місяці тому

      Bro your $2500 computer will be good for many years to come! That's an amazing purchase if you have the money!
      I have a Mac mini that can do the basics really well. As soon as I load him up with plugins he has problems and I found out why in the comments of another video. The video card and RAM are too low in my older Mac mini.
      Seems that the plugins use the video processing and RAM heavily during playback.
      My solution was to freeze each track in protools then it was running thru the processor again.
      Good luck - Sgt Boudreau

  • @michaeldean9338
    @michaeldean9338 Місяць тому

    Nice! I'm just getting into music composition-- and I'm at a point I want to start staging my plays, so I really need to dive in and flow with the computer/software approach. I'm NOT a computer-person per se, but conceptionally I was able to make some sense out what you were explaining. This video really helped. BTW, you'd make a great instructor. Will share your channel. Best of luck to you :)

  • @aster8537
    @aster8537 8 днів тому

    Really great explainer, thank you for making it

  • @lawrencegeorge6089
    @lawrencegeorge6089 4 місяці тому +3

    Broooo this content is sick. Subbed.

    • @thozimusic
      @thozimusic  4 місяці тому +1

      Ayee!! Thank you for watching brother!

  • @Amayaverse
    @Amayaverse 2 місяці тому

    thanks so much, I am about to go traveling in Asia for a time and need to switch to making music on the road, I appreciate the tips in this and your other videos

  • @shaylamaybarry1093
    @shaylamaybarry1093 Місяць тому +1

    Good video appreciate the clarity

  • @ninalovesjesus
    @ninalovesjesus 2 місяці тому +1

    Wow! This video is really well done

  • @stephenjohnson-knight8501
    @stephenjohnson-knight8501 4 місяці тому

    About time Thanks so much. I'm wanting to upgrade and finally someone thats explaininging it all and very well!

  • @Daniel-qt9jn
    @Daniel-qt9jn 2 місяці тому +1

    Great video, Thanks bruh

  • @marentertainment365
    @marentertainment365 Місяць тому

    I appreciate you getting right to the point man. I DJ and my MacBook Pro (late 2017 1TB / 16GB RAM) model has been getting hot and closing the programs during my recent events.
    -
    I’m going to save and use some Apple gift cards along with cash to get the M4 model (strictly for DJ’ing this time around) 💪🏾

    • @thozimusic
      @thozimusic  Місяць тому +1

      Let's gooo!!! I can't wait to see the performance of the M4 models, should be a substantial improvement over the one you got now for sure! Shout out to your for keeping your machine for that long too! Glad to see that not everyone is hooked on the "new gear every year" hype, ha ha

    • @marentertainment365
      @marentertainment365 Місяць тому

      @@thozimusic haha yea man. I don’t play those hype beast games. That laptop was $3000 in total at the time and wanted to make it last 😭 I’m excited to get a newer model.

  • @samtartaglia8088
    @samtartaglia8088 4 місяці тому

    This is exactly the video I needed, thank you man!!

  • @officialnockturn
    @officialnockturn 3 місяці тому

    Great video man just stumbled on this and let me tell you! This video is the most informative video I’ve seen on this topic! Great video

  • @AnkitAJJainAJOnVocals
    @AnkitAJJainAJOnVocals 4 місяці тому +1

    Thanks man for the video. It helped.

  • @wardednickel2552
    @wardednickel2552 4 місяці тому +13

    i recommend windows cause of cracking

    • @prodbytarantino
      @prodbytarantino 11 днів тому

      Every time I have mention this method on UA-cam, my comment gets deleted almost instantly wtf😭

    • @jiekenbeats
      @jiekenbeats 3 дні тому

      LMAO real

  • @omniburn
    @omniburn 2 місяці тому

    concise & informative! thank youu

  • @ArmandO.Ontario
    @ArmandO.Ontario 4 місяці тому +1

    I though that apple MacBooks were just expensive machines, but in all videos I saw they recommended those. Yours jus let me finish take it.😂

  • @angelivanmunoz1158
    @angelivanmunoz1158 Місяць тому

    Thank you, It was really helpful

  • @carmenrenee4880
    @carmenrenee4880 5 місяців тому

    best video out there

  • @Uknow5911
    @Uknow5911 27 днів тому

    I'm watching from your video from India 🇮🇳❤

  • @gothnev
    @gothnev Місяць тому +1

    You didn't mention DPC latency? 🤔

  • @Loneranger670
    @Loneranger670 4 місяці тому

    Well done. South Africans rock!!

  • @mercyld
    @mercyld 4 місяці тому +1

    Another advantage for apple is air drop, if u are doing music you know how lame it is to have to be sending everything trough email

    • @thozimusic
      @thozimusic  4 місяці тому +1

      Yup that’s an added advantage for iPhone users

  • @zakblue
    @zakblue 3 місяці тому

    I tried doing this on a surface pro 7 a few years ago and it's a mess. I've had 3 external SSDs die or have really poor performance and it's such a pain managing all the external devices that are full of VSTs and projects. I'm looking at going all mac and bringing everything over (95% of stuff can be redownloaded on that OS) but the problem is Apple pricing for ram and storage. I would stay with a PC solution if I could find a rock solid laptop with robust internal storage and ram.

  • @zanegrey7847
    @zanegrey7847 Місяць тому

    Great Job brother.

  • @psocques
    @psocques 2 місяці тому

    Based on other content creators, the m1 is out preforming the m3 in MANY daws. That is, the daws are not utilizing Ecores at all.

  • @sorbayy
    @sorbayy Місяць тому

    I am trialing the M3 Max 16” with 48 GB of RAM, but I just found out Apple is releasing the M4 chips soon… is it worth waiting or have I already surpassed any bottlenecks for music production with my current build? Great video btw 🔥

    • @ApfelSgt
      @ApfelSgt 22 дні тому

      Even the M1‘s are still powerful enough! 😅
      And if you go with M1 pro or Max, you will have zero issues even today! So the M3 Max is way more than powerful enough! 🤷🏽
      And it’s your choice, but why do you need 48GB ram?! 🤣 unless you’re an extreme professional, you will never ever need that many Ram! 💀
      Even 16Gb is enough and with 24, you’re more then save!
      And i think you’re not such an professional that you really need anything of that because if you would be, you wouldn’t ask this questions! 😅🙈

  • @Silveruche.
    @Silveruche. 2 місяці тому

    You've got a new subscriber 😊

  • @malfew262
    @malfew262 25 днів тому

    The info is clear. Very affordable 😅

  • @onimisilovesonmusic4548
    @onimisilovesonmusic4548 4 місяці тому

    Honestly any laptop can produce music very high quality music. Except if u are over processing then u need a high end computer with big specs . Making beats with a few Vst , even i3 dual core will do . Recently made a very good song in an iPad , ran fl studio in an android device and it made high quality music. It all depends on ur work flow anything starting from an i5 with 8g ram is ok . I had a 32g ram machine and another 8g machine surprisingly the 8g machine performs better. Some laptops have big ram big ssd but performance wise they lack much

    • @forme7098
      @forme7098 2 місяці тому

      Hello! I want to start learning sound recording. Please recommend a laptop for this purpose 🥹🙏 (not apple 🍎)

  • @edismoz
    @edismoz 5 місяців тому

    Great explanation … thanks for sharing

  • @Irulanne
    @Irulanne 11 днів тому

    What about sound card between computers? I used to record on an old PC (still on Windows XP) that gave me amazing vocal recordings without clipping. I could belt to my heart's content without any fear. Since I started using my ACER Aspire 5 laptop instead (with a Focusrite Scarlet as an interface), my vocals clip (and saturate) everytime I belt or sing too close to my microphone. I tried to reduce the volume and gain (or sing further away from the mic) but then my vocals are barely audible and/or sound terrible. My initial guess is that the laptop is the problem. Would investing in a new PC, a gaming laptop (with a good sound card) or a Mac Pro/Mini be my solution to go back to being able to record loud vocals?

  • @brianb4877
    @brianb4877 2 місяці тому

    First, Thank you for the notes and insight. I’m looking to transition away from MAC. I’ve always hated Windows, but I need to update on a budget. Are drivers still an issue for NON-MACs?

  • @SkylerMills
    @SkylerMills 4 місяці тому

    Awesome vid! Sinc eim constantly traveling and my alienware laptop is such a hassle i cant even use it without it being plugged in...
    I was thinking 14" macbook M3 pro or max with 32gb ram 1-2tb of storage.

  • @ProdbyTre039
    @ProdbyTre039 2 місяці тому

    🇿🇦keep it up my bru

  • @MRREVILOable
    @MRREVILOable 3 місяці тому

    I've used windows all my life and switching to apple will cost me alot. If I buy m1 apple and install windows 10, will the speed reduce? Or will it still be a beast? I'm using 2017 macbook pro and on windows, it doesn't so much. I use kontakt libraries and it struggles with it

  • @DivestedEntity
    @DivestedEntity 2 місяці тому

    BRO WHAT IS THAT BANGER AT THE END ?

  • @alikisandaliki1888
    @alikisandaliki1888 3 місяці тому

    How about the aspects of connecting midi , headphones and such aren’t Macbooks limited in this feild?

  • @padrowbeats
    @padrowbeats 3 місяці тому

    when looking for a secondhand / refurbished mac, does the year influence the performance? I'm afraid the constant software updates interfere with DAW compatibility

  • @faustoberardo
    @faustoberardo 3 місяці тому

    Hi! What do you think about a Samsun Book 3 today? i7, 16gb ram, 512ssd for music production? I'm using Reason 12 now

  • @jordanheights7183
    @jordanheights7183 Місяць тому

    Internal 500 GB ssd
    500 GB Ssd
    Cpu
    Ram more programs same time
    Gpu

  • @3rdtwirl494
    @3rdtwirl494 3 місяці тому +2

    hi thank you . im trying to find a refurbished Mac for my patner to get back into music. so thinking 8gb as I don't feel I need to drop a grand as its just projects at home. 8gb and 256? ok ? also how did you do the lighting id like to replicate it somehow.

    • @SgtBoudreau
      @SgtBoudreau 3 місяці тому

      Get 16GB minimum RAM and try to get as much video RAM as you can. DAWs use quite a bit of RAM now days.

    • @SonetsKonjam
      @SonetsKonjam 3 місяці тому +1

      hey did you buy one yet?? cuz for music I'd recommend Kreative Devices laptops, they've got the best specs at the most affordable price

  • @zicardolington7838
    @zicardolington7838 4 місяці тому

    Great insight! What's the song that plays at the end???

  • @DBTHEPLUG
    @DBTHEPLUG Місяць тому

    My PC I bought in 2020 with an i7 10700K & RTX 3080 clears any mac trash.
    Mac's for casuals.

  • @nicolemena5050
    @nicolemena5050 2 місяці тому

    Thiss good, very goood tks

  • @timothyvanschalkwyk
    @timothyvanschalkwyk 5 місяців тому +1

    Hi Thozi, I've been using a base HP Celeron with a AMD processor and it is only now after 4 years of use 😅 starting to give me problems, i am however looking at the 2017 Macbook Air 13'' as it is within budget and i have been doing research on it

    • @thozimusic
      @thozimusic  5 місяців тому +1

      Hey Timothy, the 2017 MacBook Air would definitely be a substantial upgrade over the HP 😅. However, because of the screen and trackpad, I would strongly suggest saving a bit longer to get the 2018 model instead, you will appreciate it way more

    • @timothyvanschalkwyk
      @timothyvanschalkwyk 5 місяців тому

      @@thozimusic Hi Thozi, I’ll definitely look into the 2018 MacBook and how much it costs on the used market from an approved reseller

  • @okkeboetrugal6419
    @okkeboetrugal6419 4 місяці тому +1

    Are you able to use other DAW's to create/produce music such as[ pro tools,Albeto live , Logic pro & cu base] or you only use FL studio
    And which Daw is the best to produce music?

  • @mylesieboo
    @mylesieboo 5 місяців тому +1

    you are a superstar!! my budget can get me an M2 base model macbook air but I was very concerned about it only being 8gb ram. this was very informative and helpful. Thank you
    🙌

    • @thozimusic
      @thozimusic  5 місяців тому

      I used the base M1 MacBook Air for over a year and had no problems, you should be good 👌🏿

  • @natelc2727
    @natelc2727 4 місяці тому

    good vid my guy

  • @JosephineDeSmet
    @JosephineDeSmet 5 місяців тому

    very useful!!! thank you!!
    I'm wondering about my plugins though... I have a windows computer but want a laptop to perform live... I use ableton with native instruments plugins, komplete kontrol 13, melodyne, I don't know for sure what to get because I'm not sure if those would work on apple too, like do you pay for windows version do you then have to rebuy for apple?

  • @brandondefalco8843
    @brandondefalco8843 5 місяців тому

    Hi! The Asus Amazon link is broken. Could you update the description please with a new link? There are a ton on Amazon and I’m a bit of a novice with PC shopping. Thank you!

  • @2Famouz
    @2Famouz 4 місяці тому +1

    I don’t want use Mack it’s shit for my workflow.

    • @Maksitto
      @Maksitto 4 місяці тому

      Why))

    • @2Famouz
      @2Famouz 4 місяці тому

      Because I need to use what I want.

    • @Maksitto
      @Maksitto 4 місяці тому

      @@2Famouz ok why you can't use what you want on Mac?)

    • @2Famouz
      @2Famouz 4 місяці тому

      @@Maksitto brain 🧠

  • @shaylamaybarry1093
    @shaylamaybarry1093 Місяць тому

    Subscribed

  • @YoungThrilla1
    @YoungThrilla1 4 місяці тому +9

    *CANT UNDERSTAND SH T YOU SAID WHEN U STARTED TALKING BOUT ALL THE DAMN HARDDRIVES 😕*

  • @phelipeduarte1553
    @phelipeduarte1553 Місяць тому

    Fire

  • @unoroze9505
    @unoroze9505 3 місяці тому

    So I have a pc now but I’m looking into upgrading to a Mac but my only concern is I purchased a lot of my vsts for pc. Is there anyway to convert my vsts from pc to Mac without having to repurchase them?

    • @chrisgee1621
      @chrisgee1621 3 місяці тому

      Google search:::It's possible to use Windows VSTs on a Mac using tools like CrossGridder and AudioGridder:
      CrossGridder
      A tool that can run Windows VSTs on macOS. There are several videos on UA-cam that demonstrate how to use CrossGridder, including how to set up CrossGridder for the first time, how to use 32-bit Windows VST plugins, and how to set up multiple servers.
      AudioGridder
      An app that can run an audio server on any computer, which can then be used to run Windows plugins in a Mac DAW. There are also videos on UA-cam that demonstrate how to use AudioGridder, including how to avoid CPU spikes and how to get additional CPU power for DSP processing.

    • @jacquespersonal
      @jacquespersonal 3 місяці тому

      You should have the option to redownload them as their mac os versions on whatever website you purchased them from. Most plugins give you a certain number of machines you can download on and it’s usually 2-3. And you can discontinue the license on a previous machine if you don’t use it anymore. Idk if that answered your question but I hope that helped

    • @jacquespersonal
      @jacquespersonal 3 місяці тому

      Maybe check your email and try to find the download link to the plugins you bought and see if they give you the option to download for max os

  • @krabzlezinto
    @krabzlezinto 5 місяців тому

    Another thing you need to consider is with Apple their software is well optimized which means that the software can run at its best without straining the hardware

  • @ashavari
    @ashavari 3 місяці тому

    You’re GOAT

  • @KreativeDevices
    @KreativeDevices Місяць тому

    Kreative Devices

  • @PickLost
    @PickLost 4 місяці тому

    What about i9

  • @creative-ray-music
    @creative-ray-music Місяць тому

    Mac Studio M2 64gb ram 1 tb SSD all the way. Totaly save if this system works fine. If it does, then your set for life
    PC I never recommend. PC needs drivers and they will come almost every day in day out. More then 40% system background activity with this shitty OS's and your system is noisy. Fans and graphics card or whatelse more. It might cheaper, but this will be for 18months, because your PC configuration will be old allready and you get shitty drivers every day until your system doesn't run anymore, because applications aren't getting updated anymore or worst.
    Bottomline: Apple Mac for Multimedia = ALL THE WAY PEEPS! Period Save money, patience and buy it. You won't regret if you purchase the right configuration for what you do and need it for!

  • @jennalai5246
    @jennalai5246 Місяць тому

    Hello! Do you recommend the MacBook Air with the M2 chip?🥹

    • @thozimusic
      @thozimusic  Місяць тому +1

      100%, can’t get anything better for the price imo

    • @jennalai5246
      @jennalai5246 Місяць тому

      @@thozimusic thank you! I just got a 2nd hand one and it was barely used! What great purchase! Again thanks!

  • @katclymer9007
    @katclymer9007 2 місяці тому

    You have such a kind face???? I immediately got happy upon seeing you, dude 🥹💖

  • @klinsmannkoko2117
    @klinsmannkoko2117 3 місяці тому

    Thanks for the video, well explained.

  • @darthdeem
    @darthdeem Місяць тому

    Thank you so much for this information