Yeah pretty much the questions he gets would be, what about all the Old Testament stuff (wiping out nations, slavery), what about a loving God sending people to hell... he answers these type of questions really well.
RLK Brown don’t know really, happy to remain as an agnostic; I don’t believe that there isn’t a God, I don’t agree with many atheist arguments etc. Guess I’m just sat on the fence with it all.
Kym Moore okay well I hope you find the answers you are looking for! Even as a Christian I don’t know it all and we are all still learning from each other
If you ever have any questions or would like any insight about Christianity or the Bible please let me or someone else know. You of course have to be careful of heretics, (as there are crazy people wherever you go anyways). I’m very glad to hear that you are at least thinking and open to new ideas, and it can be very hard to wrap your head around it all. I would be more than happy to exchange my email or something if you would like to atleast discuss some things or I could attempt to get you started somewhere. I’m not an amazing apologist or experienced pastor, but if I can serve and be of any help please don’t hesitate to ask. I’m not seeking to be some internet troll either. Much love for you, I truly wish for the best.
"they've been doing all sorts of awful things for 400 years which I carefully arranged down to the last detail as part of my Perfect Plan for Mankind. BUT NOW IT'S JUDGEMENT DAY AND I AM in BIG TROUBLE!
@@JamesRichardWiley 'I'm going to do what I want. He knows he doesn't like me doing bad things things. He already knows what I'm gonna do and so I'm gonna do it anyway because this is also what I want not he wants. But now it's judgement day, he could have stopped me. I mean he gave me thoughts of not doing it and I knew that there would be judgement for it but despite his warnings, he didn't stop me from doing what I want and what I just thought to be right. So why the heck am I in trouble for doing such things despite him warning me? Such an awful God for letting me choose my destiny despite warning me of the shortcomings.
@@ashishhembrom3905 A world in which no bad thing can happen is a world without choice. We have a choice, thus we are in a free world. But that means both good and bad things can and do happen. So if the Bible is true, the whole thing is summarized by Jesus of Nazareth around 30 AD/CE -- "See I set before you this day, life and death. Choose life that you may live." You are in a free world. You have a choice. Choose life.
@@ashishhembrom3905 wow, give a choice GOD is wrong not giving a choice GOD is still wrong. GOD gave you a free will to choose to believe or not it is that simple, so simple that you don't need a degree to understand it. Plus GOD don't owe us anything and weather you believe it or not we owe God for giving us freewill. You reap what you saw.
@@ricksmith3442 is a guy who watches someone he believes that can't back up anything he says but still finds time to watch anyways and comment and make his videos more popular.
+@@Light-StandFinances By youtube standards, at 91,847 views, it's never going to make it to "popular" level. lol You are as big a failure as the video. What's your next whine? lol
WebDev So - Why are w you quoting an "ours is not to reason why" narrative on an apologetic video where Frankie tries to establish that he can reason why?
@@Dr-Curious because he is trying to save a lot of time , are you familiar with the philosophical writings of CS Lewis , not his children's stories but his commentaries on the Bible you could call it , it is well worth reading if you have the means
@@travelsouthafrica5048 "because he is trying to save a lot of time ," Dodging online in public isn't a smart look for anyone - especially in an apologetic debate. Sorry - I got deeply bored of CS lewis.
People don't usually hate people they don't think are real. Also, it seems your god loves sin more than anyone else, since he does the most sinning in the Bible.
@Mr Wash That's circular reasoning combined with a twisted, deranged, and utterly delusional excuse for child slaughter. An omnipotent God cannot possibly have an excuse for it. This God's brilliant plan to stop child sacrifice was to sacrifice the rest of the children, only without the use of an alter? If children go to Heaven automatically when they die, why is child sacrifice wrong? I don't see how the addition of an alter makes it any more evil than slaughtering a child because a god told you to. Imagine I put a two-year-old girl into her car seat, light a cigarette, and burn her all over her body before taking her to Disney World. Do you think the judge and jury are going to care that I brought her to Disney World? There is no excuse for child slaughter when you are omnipotent, and can simply snap your fingers to bring children to Heaven. According to your logic, abortion is a good thing, and we should abort every fetus until we are all extinct, so everyone is born in Heaven, and no more will go to Hell. We should kill every child we can. Your reasoning is the sick and delusional reasoning that a mother who was convicted of murdering her children used: She was convinced she was saving her children from Hell, because God put it on her heart that they, just like those Canaanite children, would end up in Hell if they reached the age of reason. Your belief about the age of reason and accountability is dangerous, and cannot be found in the Bible. "GOD owns all that HE created, HE has the right to do what ever HE wants with HIS creation." That is the reasoning of a murderous slave owner. Being God does not make you moral if you are doing immoral things. If you created someone that can suffer, and then make them suffer, you are not justified just because you created them. Suppose I owned a dog, I'd go to prison for animal abuse if I abused and killed it.
@Mr Wash " In 1 Samuel 15:2-3, God commanded Saul and the Israelites, “This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'" God ordered similar things when the Israelites were invading the promised land (Deuteronomy 2:34; 3:6; 20:16-18). Why would God have the Israelites exterminate an entire group of people, women and children included? " Because, he is characteristically evil, just like all unrepentant genocidal maniacs are. "This is a difficult issue. We do not fully understand why God would command such a thing," That is because there is no excuse for child slaughter, that is why you cannot understand how there can be a righteous murderer of children. It is difficult, because you have to do incredible mental gymnastics to make excuses for criminal behavior. Just ask any criminal who makes excuses for their criminal behavior, blaming others instead of themselves. "but we trust God that He is just" Yes, because you have been brainwashed to think that justice allows the brutal slaughter of children, because you use circular reasoning to conclude that your god is just ("Our genocidal god is just. How do we know he is just, despite killing all those children in brutal ways? Because, he said he is just, and if Hitler says he's just to kill Jewish children, then he is just to do so"). There is nothing just about your god's behavior toward children, or just about Hitler's behavior toward children. Both qualify as genocidal maniacs who have zero justification. "and we recognize that we are incapable of fully understanding a sovereign, infinite, and eternal God." It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that mass genocide of children is immoral, or that dishing out infinite torture for finite crimes is the ultimate evil. "As we look at difficult issues such as this one, we must remember that God’s ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts (Isaiah 55:9; Romans 11:33-36)." Right. It makes sense if you don't think about it, so just say that we could never understand. "We have to be willing to trust God and have faith in Him even when we do not understand His ways. " Faith is foolishness, because it is belief without evidence or proof. I reject faith as the most dishonest position one can hold, and consider it extremely foolish. See how it is making you come up with deranged excuses for a mass murderer of children? I understand your god's ways perfectly fine, and they are utterly evil. What makes it worse is that he hides behind a facade of love and forgiveness, even while burning most people forever and killing small children. His words and actions are not in tune with each other, and when that is the case, I go with the actions to tell what is in the heart. Your god's heart is full of infinite hatred for all who burn in Hell, and that is why he dishes out infinite torture. He is an god with severe anger issues and abnormal psychology. Thank the real God that he is imaginary, and is only a reflection of an ancient god-king tyrant who pretends to love anyone who bows to him and obeys him without question, even when he commands the mass genocide of children. "Unlike us, God knows the future." This does nothing to excuse subjecting small children to extreme suffering and terror while they are being slaughtered. You are sick, and need help. "God knew what the results would be if Israel did not completely eradicate the Amalekites." Or, your god lied about it. Had that ever occurred to you? The Bible says that he sent a delusion to make people believe lies, so it admits that he is also a deceiver, which is in holding with him being a mass murderer. "If Israel did not carry out God’s orders, the Amalekites would come back to trouble the Israelites in the future." So, we should kill all the children of Muslim terrorists, according to your logic. That future problems may arise is not an excuse to commit mass genocide of children. You certainly have done impressive mental gymnastics to justify the mass genocide of small children and a god that is no better than Molech, a murderer of children.
To be honest, the hardest part about studying the Bible is not just trying to understand its more cryptic messages, but accepting the messages that you already understand. The Bible is truth but the truth can often be a very bitter pill to swallow, but swallow it we must if we are to join our Lord in Heaven when the time comes.
Maybe that’s a sign that you should treat it with some skepticism. If you have to use countless examples of mental gymnastics to justify something, then it’s probably not correct
@@tsarnicholasii274 Exactly! The Bible isn’t truth. Snakes can’t talk, and people don’t live to be 900 years old. The human race was doing perfectly fine long before Christianity and all other religions came along. It’s a shame that so many people choose comfort over reality.
This is the question I hear most often. The whole "You complain that God doesn't stop evil, and then we have an example of God stopping evil and you complain about that" thing is an incredible point! Adding that to my tool belt.
The example Frank gave here is 100% gibberish. God is all powerful. Capable of literally anything. He could have snapped his finger and fixed these people. Or he could have just, you know, not designed them to act this way (since he knew from the start this would happen). There's no reason an all powerful God should resort to murder and genocide. He has literally infinite options. That's why "the atheists complain", because God committing murder is STILL evil, no matter what the people he murdered did. In fact, since God is all knowing and all powerful, it's HIS FAULT these people are acting this way in the first place. So sorry. This isn't "an incredible point", it's nonsense. I'd bet my house every "tool" in your "tool belt" is nonsense as well.
There's a lot wrong with it. A. I don't actually believe that there's a god, so I'm not complaining that it doesn't stop evil, just pointing out that if it exists in this reality it's doing a crappy job. B. When you commit a greater act of "evil" to fix "evil", did you actually fix anything? "There's a murderer living in that house" "Cool, kill everyone male and non-virgin female in there, but take the virgins as sex slaves, that'll reduce our crime rate!".
@@flanderg123 I understand how u viewed it that way I have a friend who brought this to my attention and now I understand it a bit more. So we have to take a look at it through the lens of a timeless being seeing that there is a common theme of nations going through a transformation that at the apex is it’s full moral depravity and each nation does it America is on its course too but there is time for lots of people to be saved through God’s patience
Since I subscribed to this channel I have learnt a lot. I have been a believer my whole life and yet there were many things I didn't knew. Thank you for educating me, brother. May God bless you, Amen.
Rape and slavery. Real facts, just read the Bible, God's rules condoned owning slaves and bashing them close to death if necessary and enslaving their wife and their offspring children Exodus 21. Its was ok raping virgins and forcing the victim to marry the rapist also. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 Drunken incest was also ok, but an inocent quick look at something very interesting deserved instant death for no just reason by salt metamorphism, Lot and his daughters did the dirty deed. Genesis 19:26-38 Killing first borns and slaughtering and butchering thousands of Amalekite and many other racist wars. Flooding the earth killing women and children and unborn babies which is equal to mass abortions. Now go read your Bible with your eyes wide open and your brains turned on.
Indeed. It was jesus who introduced the concept of hell and burning forever for not believing he's a lovely guy. Very recognisable in the gawd of the old testament.
Albert Stegeman, and people like hitler Will see what they deserve. Justice will be served! People choose to go to hell and deny gods son wilfully, god Won’t force heaven onto us, neither can a sinner enter a perfect Kingdom or then the kingdom won’t be perfect anymore. And if god was a Soft Heartless Spirit then there would be no consequences to the evil people in this world! Then where would the true Justice be!? God would be evil if there was no hell! Because If he served no justice then that means hitler got away will his EVIL, that man who raped that woman got away with it, and pedophiles, child rapists would also get away with there EVIL! We will Reap our own choices And Actions That are evil, they must have consequences Or there would be No justice or Fair judgment. And no reason for a sinner to change. If there was no prison people would simply just not care About anything, and the world would go crazy, and crimes would increase with No Justice. But when people realise there’s a consequence to evil actions, it stops them from committing that evil and saves a lot of trouble from happening. Why should god force you to go to heaven when you clearly hate his character and don’t want anything to do with him anyway!? That’s why he gave you free will! And the gift of free will is True love. God loves you enough to let you make Your own choices and not program you into a robot to love him.
@@declan.mclean3857 Being punished for wrong doings: sure. Being punished for not believing a phony story of a skydad who sent his son, who was himself, to be punished because a female ate an apple thousands of years ago. And that's my fault. The bible in a nutshell. By the way, just curious: will there be free will in heaven?
“What kind of king makes Himself nothing for His people? The Mighty one. What kind of king lets His people humiliate and beat Him until He is unrecognizable and is still able to hold His head high? The Merciful one. What kind of king hangs Himself on a cross for his people? The Righteous one. And because He has done this for us I will make my life a living sacrifice unto Him.” His name is above all others His name is JESUS!
@@BScott7220 God is perfect, for the immoral man to question the Creator of morality is quite silly. Should an individual go unpunished for their crimes?
@@Homesteader1776 Yes he seems to think so and based on his logic if you don't "believe" in God you automatically go to hell. What if you do believe in God but is still greedy, selfish, envious will that be enough to get you saved? faith without action is dead. And he seems to think that God sacrificing himself for us makes him somehow evil for doing that which doesn't make sense to me.
@brandon weidner To start the lords and saviors name is YESHUA not Jesus. Secondly he’ll is not eternal, it’s your eternal outcome. The Bible uses the word forever 56 times to describe something with a definite end. It’s not the punishing that’s eternal but the punishment... being separated from god, from sin. Not only this but hell is not fire, fire is symbolic, and Satan and demons don’t rule hell they will be punished also. Not only this so many prophecies have come true, 12 tribes of Israel scattered” certain African people, specifically ones in American from Soave ships, Hispanics and Indians. The signs in the stars The mark of the beast And I. The older original Greek written revaluation we are warned not to say the name Jesus because that name is of false phrophet For better explanation watch parable of the vineyard and hope through prophecy
@@lucid_lucas4509 If someone is truly seaking after God willing to be fully obedient to the call He has placed on their lives, with them having no idea that Our Saviors name in Hebrew is Yeshua, intern referring to Him as Jesus would God still respond to the individual?
Well let me provide a counter argument that you have never heard before: His whole “Atheists complain when God doesn’t step in to stop atrocities, but then also complain when he does step in” argument is still extremely problematic, because it shows that God is inconsistent. How were the Nazis any different from the awful group that he brought up? They two burned children alive, and enslaved, murdered, and tortured millions, so why was God inconsistent with his punishments? Why did he choose to let the Nazis slaughter his creations when he had put an end to that awful behavior before? And this also shows the holes in the “free will” argument. As humans do we, or do we not have free will? Because it certainly didn’t seem like we did back then; God was constantly interfering with our actions; causing floods, wiping out civilizations; spreading plagues, etc. But now what? The divine intervention just stopped. Did God just grow apathetic? Did he abandon us and label us as a lost cause? I’d like to see how the speaker would try to justify that.
The Batman Why are you asking me these questions instead of Frank Turek? but let me try to provide an explanation since your asking me. According to Deut 32:8 and Psalm 82, God divided up the nations (land and people) to watchers who then disobeyed Him and let wickedness abound, so God brought a people of His own through Abraham which would become His portion, His nation and His land. So when He rescued His people from Egypt there were other nations inhabiting His land doing detestable things as child and human sacrifice as well as worship of those other gods...ON HIS LAND. So he used His people as weapons (for many reasons other than just sending fire from Heaven) to wipe them out -although they didn’t fully wipe them out so their religion would surface from time to time and led His people astray...hence why He told them to wipe them out completely. WWII was not on His land and also after he sent His son Jesus to die for our salvation. So that is why the “atrocities” - as you put it, were bestowed upon those people. God never demanded lives or attacks outside of His own land. God sent His 10 commandments and the rain falls on the just and as well as the unjust. Thus FREE WILL. Even the other gods had free will and chose evil. So do we have a choice. Every action, obeying God or disobedience has a consequence. Jesus will return for judgement.
Indeed. As your god seems to choose to help a tiny minority who are in need through no fault of their own, yet ignores millions of starving innocent children. He allows kids born with bone cancer and AIDS, for example. Your god sounds truly awful.
It's obviously a strawman argument. One, the atheists don't "complain about God not stopping evil" because they don't believe there is a God on the first place. Two, it's not a question of hating it WHEN He does, but rather HOW He does. Any child could think of many more humane and loving and acceptable ways to stop evil behaviour than slaughtering those who perpetrate it.
@@joshuakohlmann9731 Yap, that's exactly right, even children can come up with better ways. "But god can do whatever he wants. He is god, the giver and taker of life!" Even if that is so, he does it very, very poorly ... Reminds me more of some infuriated war lord than an all-loving god.
This is interesting because he is not only addressing the most common atheist arguments I've encountered myself but he is giving the answers I gave, but got ridiculed by the people I was addressing.
Hey Frank Turek, I really enjoy you posting up Q&A’s because I’ve seen your presentation countless times. I love the Q&A’s bc it’s interesting, different, etc.
Wow 😯- that was the best explanation I’ve heard for something I’ve struggled to understand but just took on faith. Thank you for helping me with some reasons that made a lot of sense to me
Even IF the Canaanites and Amalekites were the worst people imaginable, that doesn't justify killing the children that were still alive by the time the genocide began. It was commanded for babies to be ripped out of their mother's wombs and dashed upon the ground. How can that be justified? If God had wanted the children's souls returned to him, why did he choose to have them suffer a death by the sword? He's perfectly capable of rapturing people away without the need for a physical death. I seriously don't get why apologists can't answer this objection forthrightly. Frank tried but ultimately failed by my estimation.
...i thought it was good apart from him saying that God is arbitary in justice, he just takes life if he feels like it.. he missed out the important fact that the Israelites were not allowed to go into the promised land until the sin of the amorites had reached its full measure Gen 15:16
God of old testament said, I bless and I curse, I do good and evil.. so there you go. Duality god.. Christ never once said to do evil, to kill, to murder people. He rebuked his disciples for wanting to cast fire down from the sky like Elijah, he said bless those who persecute you. It's said that blessing and cursing should be coming out of same mouth etc. The real problem is the fact that people don't read their Bible with an open mind.
A lot of SERIOUS evasions, going on, it would seem. And humans never seem to have fully CHOSEN how they are born, where they are born, or into what - or as what. So how is any full conscious 'rejecting' even going on...?
The god of the Old Testament promoted human sacrifice (see Leviticus 27:29 & Exodus 13:2) and slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46). Although he ordered them not to intermarry, he also allowed the Israelites to kidnap foreign women and force them to be their wives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14). He ordered a man to be killed just for picking up sticks on the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36). He even broke the second commandment when he had Moses create a graven image of a snake to cure people of their poison bites (Deuteronomy 21:8-9 & 2 Kings 18:4). This is NOT a God of morality.
A scenario from the video itself: "There's a young lady who asked a question and she said, 'I can't believe in a god that would do this kind of thing.' And so I said, 'Can I ask you a question? Are you pro-abortion or pro-life?' She said, 'Oh, I'm pro-abortion.' I said, 'Let me ask you a question about that, Why is it that when God plays God in the Old Testament, when he chooses who lives and who dies, he's immoral? But when you play god here on earth and you decide who lives and who dies through abortion, that's a moral right?'"
I'm thinking by myself , since the beginning God always warned people to do the right things the way He wanted and we never never respected God advises we always do things the way we wanted , we can't blame God .
If hes trying to justify the mass genocide of people by saying they were immoral, where was that energy when blacks were enslaved in the U.S? Where was God then?
HoodieDan obviously not all humans but all of Israel did believe in God and time and time again they went against him which caused him to stop interceding. It doesn’t matter who he stops you won’t be able to serve him. Believe he exist sure but even the devil believes in God. The ancient Israelites saw the parting of the Red Sea, saw the plagues fall on Egypt, the walls of Jericho fall, heard Gods voice multiple times that it put fear in the people of Israel and still what did they do? They burned their children alive to these idols and killed the prophets of God. After interceding so much for the people of Israel through there battles they still turned against him. God could rain fire down from the sky to where the entire world sees but that will only make you believe in him not actually worship him
David Vargas Dont you think it was a waste of time then on Gods part, since hes supposedly all knowing he knew the outcome already. So if that’s true God Can’t be all knowing, or maybe you’re just wrong.
I get why people want to pose questions like these, but look, apologists will NEVER see this as a valid question. The Bible specifically prevents this line of questioning from being problematic by saying god won't interfere or be seen or heard etc after Jesus's death. It's a fail safe.
The moral perspective of the christian god is extremely subjective. It's just the opinion of one individual. Why even bother to call it a 'standard'? And what good is a 'moral standard' if it results in killing all babies on earth by drowning them? That's what happens if you put your trust in moral ideas of one extremely powerful entity who has a history of encouraging and condoning violence. At least people share their ideas about morality and try to learn from each other in order to come to some sort of intersubjective morality.
@Jack Of All Trades It's why it is such a hotly debated topic. Here's my viewpoint. No one should be made to "remain pregnant" if they don't want to be pregnant. It is a potentially dangerous situation to be in and each person should be able to decide what they do with their body. Having said that, I completely think that anyone who doesn't want to have children should practice a LOT more self control and maturity. Double, triple contraceptives........or not have sex at all.
@Jack Of All Trades Well, that was a bit pessimistic, but I do wish humanity would grow past what so many are and mature to what we really should have been at today. I wrote a fiction story [albeit, amateur] that has a lot to do with the lack luster progress of humanity. It probably won't ever get published, but it has been fun writing it.
Well what do you think of my answer to his answer? Or at least one of them: His whole “Atheists complain when God doesn’t step in to stop atrocities, but then also complain when he does step in” argument is still extremely problematic, because it shows that God is inconsistent. How were the Nazis any different from the awful group that he brought up? They two burned children alive, and enslaved, murdered, and tortured millions, so why was God inconsistent with his punishments? Why did he choose to let the Nazis slaughter his creations when he had put an end to that awful behavior before? And this also shows the holes in the “free will” argument. As humans do we, or do we not have free will? Because it certainly didn’t seem like we did back then; God was constantly interfering with our actions; causing floods, wiping out civilizations; spreading plagues, etc. But now what? The divine intervention just stopped. Did God just grow apathetic? Did he abandon us and label us as a lost cause? I’d like to see how the speaker would try to justify that.
You really need to reevaluate your morality and outlook on reality. If you look to this con man for how to be motivated, you're not going to turn out well.
@@jeziscricket4448 I don't know what your point is or how that's relevant to the discussion. Everything we do and interact with from the day we are old enough to reason until the day we die has the potential to alter our morality and world view (including TV). So what?
The old testament is gold. Rape and slavery. Real facts, just read the Bible, God's rules condoned owning slaves and bashing them close to death if necessary and enslaving their wife and their offspring children Exodus 21. Its was ok raping virgins and forcing the victim to marry the rapist also. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 Drunken incest was also ok, but an inocent quick look at something very interesting deserved instant death for no just reason by salt metamorphism, Lot and his daughters did the dirty deed. Genesis 19:26-38 Killing first borns and slaughtering and butchering thousands of Amalekite and many other racist wars. Flooding the earth killing women and children and unborn babies which is equal to mass abortions. Now go read your Bible with your eyes wide open and your brains turned on.
@@Dr-Curious Every immoral act is condoned if done in God's name. That's the problem with religions. It's what creates religious bigots, terrorists, supremacists, etc.
You have every right to be frustrated. The god of the Old Testament also promoted human sacrifice (see Leviticus 27:29 & Exodus 13:2) and slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46). Although he ordered them not to intermarry, he also allowed the Israelites to kidnap foreign women and force them to be their wives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14). He ordered a man to be killed just for picking up sticks on the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36). He even broke the second commandment when he had Moses create a graven image of a snake to cure people of their poison bites (Deuteronomy 21:8-9 & 2 Kings 18:4). In your heart you know this is NOT the work of a good, moral God.
@@brotothewilliams9890 This is not true at all. Even Bill Maher, famous atheist talk show host, admits that Christians don't live in this way. That atheist would refute you even. But if we look at history, atheism has caused more bloodshed, atrocities, and hate crimes world wide. In fact, more murder came from atheistic communistic regimes in the 20th century than at any other time in recorded history. You can thank mother Russia, China, Cuba, and so forth. It would be even more fair for me to say that atheism directly leads to the murder of innocent life.
Yahweh is love and he is merciful he is always with me because I obey him. I pray for a little kids I see them get healed from asthma and all kinds of diseases all glory to Yahweh
The one thing I have trouble with is why God allows an individual child to be murdered. Like when they get abducted by a monster. Why doesn't God supernaturally intervene.
Dr Turek.... I'm sorta new to the channel, not your ideas. But more and more, I think you're the real deal when it comes to a messenger of God. As a self admitted ex-Christian, sir... your making some headway with me, but it still doesn't change my opinions on the church. If men witnessed like this to me in person with my questions, maybe I would've never turned my back.
@@chrissonofpear1384 Hey. The evidence before you is enough. If you want more, you might die without getting more. Billy Graham once said "God has made the way of salvation so plain that 'the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein'" from Isaiah 35:8. The evidence is before you. More of something is not what makes it valid. You need to step out of yourself (I mean your ideological cocoon) and examine everything that has been said with a fresh eye and an open mind. You'll find it very compelling.
@@chrissonofpear1384 Jesus said in Luke 7:31-35 , "To what then shall I liken the men of this generation, and what are they like? They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling to one another, saying: 'We played the flute for you, And you did not dance; We mourned to you, And you did not weep.' For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' But wisdom is justified by all her children."
@@euniceaber6867 And I'm sure various Spanish Jews could easily reflect upon this, without fear of torture, imprisonment, or general persecution, by various people riled up by blood libel claims and other hasty rumours, about them? Or Africans who sometimes got Leviticus 25:46 or the Curse of Ham quoted at them, in support for some chaining them up? Or assorted people slaughtered on August 24th, 1572, to supposed acclaim of the then Pope? Also, were previous gay people often summarily put to death; was there always a... cure, for them, only being explored now; and to what extent can they even choose their desires, if Satan can subvert parts of nature? Also, regards 1 Corinthians 2:14, again?
@@euniceaber6867 Ideological? I thought I was asking you about various forms of that? Legalism, too - and why Satan was owed any access? I'm well aware ideologies can lead to sectarian slaughters, thanks (and regretfully, did indeed occur, in the past, often)
Very true. He at no point addresses the actual issue at hand. Instead he does moral gymnastics to get around the foundation of the question and then plays a sort of “whataboutism” as if atheists would be the only moral people who would have objections to the Old Testament’s atrocities.
Lol, "Let me explain when it's ok to commit genocide, and evil things that happen to people doesn't need to be stopped because eventually we all live together in paradise."
The guy asking seemed earnest and genuine and Dr Turek handled it with love. Well done. When people say they're angry at God for wiping people out, they're not actually angry at God but a strange idea of him. How can you reconcile HE is the creator of all things, ultimate judge and has promised a life after death....and then be angry at him killing people 'for no good reason'? It's looking for an excuse to be angry and reject God. Not in this fellow's case it seems, but online there is often a vitriol and ignorance combined that results in those kind of incoherent stances. "If God existed, I'd hate him and spit in his face" kind of attitude that's absolutely ridiculous. False bravado and virtue signaling. Some people think if a guy started a fight, they'd knock him out in one punch. Others might think if a mob attacked them, they'd swiftly dispatch the entire mob. Others still think in a zombie apocalypse, they'd be some kind of hero, just plain better than everyone else. But then you have people who think they would be exposed to the creator of the universe, of life, and death, justice and separation. And...spit in his face. Because he doesn't meet THEIR (inconsistent) standards of morality. Probably watching too much anime.
Well... 1. Do you interpret that "wrote his law on your heart" verse to mean that your feelings are an accurate judge of objective morality? 2. Do you feel it's good if Bob drowns Fred to death without warning because Bob disagrees with Fred's actions? 3. If we confirm Bob's reason for disliking Fred's actions is really good, would _that_ make Bob's drowning good? A lot of non-belief is the result of simply reading the Bible carefully and paying attention to what it actually says (which includes self-contradictions like the ones I just described -- unless you weirdly think it was good for Bob to drown Fred, I guess. Another huge source of non-belief is we just don't know gods exist. Knowledge requires evidence, and we don't have strong, logical evidence of a god. In fact when theists _try_ providing evidence, it's always illogical stuff. For example Frank often cites the Moral Argument which is just two back-to-back claims without evidence (that (A) objective moral values exist and (B) if they exist they must indicate a god); well non-evidenced claims are a type of logical error called a "baseless assertion". I mention these two big ones because "angry at god" represents almost no non-believers. It's honestly pretty weird, right? I mean sure people _can_ be angry at the fictional King Joffrey from Game of Thrones (you know, that jerk teenager king?), but usually they aren't because they don't actually believe Joffrey exists. Well non-believers don't believe gods exist, so being angry at them is pretty silly. It can happen, it's just silly.
He never answered the question. Is god moral to encourage genocide? Also, the 400 years question is interesting. If god is eternal why does he let 400 years of atrocities happen before finally intervening? He is infinite. Why wait?
God is more merciful than we can comprehend. God in his foreknowledge knows what would have happened if he let these people live. Gods character of love, just, holy still applies at all times.
@@quatlyquatly8128 called the mercy of God. God is long suffering and not wanting anyone to perish. Pretty merciful considering the wicked are judged to an eternity to hell forever. God gives plenty of time to repent.
Good luck slogging your way through that snoozer. I can recommend it as a cure for insomnia, a door stop, and toilet paper but not much more than that.
If every time God kills it is moral because he is God, how can we possibly look to him as a guide to what our morality should be? How do we distinguish between what is moral for him, but immoral for us?
Hola aunque mi respuesta esté en español, creo que puedes traducirlo y espero sirva de algo ❤. En primer lugar, debemos entender que Dios es el único que puede dar vida o quitarla. En segundo, la única forma en la que podremos diferenciar lo que es moralmente correcto para Dios (o lo que le agrada) es a tráves de leer su palabra, la cual nos muestra ejemplos de como debemos vivir y poco a poco nos va revelando que cosas no son buenas, no solo porque entendemos por nuestro propio juicio que son malas sino porque entendemos que Dios las ve así. Ejemplo: No codiciarás, no mentirás, no robarás, no matarás...
Wow this is absolutely amazing, I don't know how I've just now find this video after 4 years of its existence, I didn't think it was possible to fit so many flawed arguments, misrepresented opposing arguments, and down right ignorant statements into one video but this man has proven me wrong, I salute you good sir.
@kingofthemultiverse4148 Hey, I'd almost forgotten this comment existed. I'll be honest, there's no need for me to refute any of this because there are plenty of videos made by people much smarter than me that have already done so. Me using ad-hominem isn't an attack. It's just me not wasting time in defuncting an already defunct argument while still bringing attention to the fact that it's a defunct argument.
Well I have some of my own answers for his answers: His whole “Atheists complain when God doesn’t step in to stop atrocities, but then also complain when he does step in” argument is still extremely problematic, because it shows that God is inconsistent. How were the Nazis any different from the awful group that he brought up? They two burned children alive, and enslaved, murdered, and tortured millions, so why was God inconsistent with his punishments? Why did he choose to let the Nazis slaughter his creations when he had put an end to that awful behavior before? And this also shows the holes in the “free will” argument. As humans do we, or do we not have free will? Because it certainly didn’t seem like we did back then; God was constantly interfering with our actions; causing floods, wiping out civilizations; spreading plagues, etc. But now what? The divine intervention just stopped. Did God just grow apathetic? Did he abandon us and label us as a lost cause? I’d like to see how the speaker would try to justify that.
Bc u feel like you shouldn't be told what is right or wrong? You don't even know what is right or wrong. A person born in the hood would think killing the person who killed their brother is moral. When in reality it's not. God said let your revenge be mine (unless he anointed you to) for a reason. You lose yourself in hatred and eventually end up fulfilling a self fulfilling prophecy. God doesn't tell us things to do just bc he wants things a certain way, he does it to save us from ourselves. Bc that's your worse enemy at the end of the day.
@@oasisflame right and wrong are subjunctive and based on nurture. If there were objective morals then it would be based on the savageness of nature. Which as we all know can be quite cruel
What would you have done differently? God waited 400 years, but their actions got worse and worse to the point where there was no going back. Child sacrifice was just one of many atrocities. Others included incest, bestiality, temple prostitution and gang sexual assault and more. Sources can be found outside the Bible.
Keep one thing in mind: God is almighty, all knowing and righteous. What you don't understand about him now, you might learn tomorrow. Trust him, and don't let the father of lies destroy your trust in God. If the enemy could talk angels into hating God, who are we yo try to argue with him...? Read the word, and stay close to Him.
Speaking as an atheist: 1. We do have a standard to judge God's actions off of. Our standard is based off of causing as little unnecessary harm as absolutely possible, especially to the innocent. Where justice is needed, it must be brought against the specific people who were responsible for the evil committed, not indiscriminately against all people of the nation which committed the evil including women and children who had nothing to do with it. You seem to imply this sort of standard gives Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs a pass, but this isn't true at all. These people dehumanised their enemies to justify genocide against them even though they were innocent and they didn't even spare infants who couldn't possibly be considered guilty. We do NOT condone the actions of these men. The same way we don't condone the actions of Yahweh as his actions are very similar. The God of the Bible commits evil on massive scales wiping out entire nations, not even sparing infants. I don't understand how Christians can say these solutions were all the best ones possible. God orders the slaughter of all Midianites, except the virgins who he orders the men to take and split between them as spoils of war (Numbers 31). The whole Egyptian plagues situation which culminated in the slaughter of all of Egypt's firstborns was caused by God hardening Pharoah's heart so he would not let the people go so he would have justification for his atrocities (Exodus 7:3). The text implies had God not done this, Pharoah would have let the people go without it having to come to this. And just read Isiah 13:15-18, imagine being one of those children, seeing your mother raped and murdered and being killed yourself. There are countless examples of these. Seriously, read the OT for yourself. The fastest way to become an atheist is to read the Bible. 2. On child sacrifice: If God proved his existence and the nonexistence of gods such as Molek, none of these things would happen. This argument also only permits killing those who condoned the practise, not the infants. 3. On claiming it was hyperbolic language: Numbers 31 disagrees with you, it gives very clear instructions to kill all the little ones and take the virgin girls "for yourselves" and if the Bible is the truth it should contain no exaggeration. 4. On claiming God can take life if he wants: Even if he gave these people life, he has no more right to take it than parents have to kill their children and he is still responsible for the suffering he causes. This argument would be more believable if the Bible said things like "He took the captured up to the Heavens to be judged", but the suffering is still on his hands. If your ideology is making you say it's okay for anyone even a God, to kill whoever he wants, you should take a good look back and consider just how dangerous your beliefs may be. 5. On your point on abortion: Not all atheists are pro-choice. Secular arguments for abortion law are just more complicated than just "God said it so it's right". You raise a good point: Why should the parent be allowed to kill their children? You can argue for pro-life without appealing to Christianity.
@Mark Mildenberger OMG!!! Just listen to yourself. You're arguing one mythical creature against a mythical god to determine real world morality???? You're friggin insane!!!
As FT says, for a world that has killed almost 40 million babies this year, and many in 'first' world countries, griping about the Canaanites is pretty hollow.
whoop whoop hey NIKKKKKI you muffin humping crap stacker. Leave My friend maxstone9999 alone he has answered your stupid question and you, being the worshipper of of time traveling, farting, dodgy curry seeking cats whom you believe created the universe. You need to go back to your comments where you say that the big bang did not create anything... then you say that it created everything, then you say that it had to achieve escape velocity to happen, then you claim to no scientist claims that the universe did not create itself, then, when presented with hawking's quote of the universe creating itself as a result of a law such as gravity you say its quote mining LOLOLOLOLOLOL Then you claim that you have time traveling farting cat that in its trip back into the past to get a bowl of dodgy curry created the universe and maintain that that is plausible... then you spew off into how your wife understands the "BIG BANG"
I don't know, man, I still can't get past all the horrid stuff in the Bible. I want to be religious but I just can't ignore it. The answers in this seem a bit strung out
the bible has nothing to do with true religion. There is no God. True religion is your own relation with the universe. If human were awake and not retarded like 90% are there would be as many religions as there are people. The bible is evil and brainwashes people using fear of hell.
I can't get past the reality that most of the ideas and stories in the Bible existed in other religions before hand, making most of it look like it was plagerized, the Jewish Torah (basis for the old testament) is actually a fairly new religion relatively speaking, there are religions much older than Judaism which lead to christianity . Anyway, it makes the Bible look like it probably was just a reworking of earlier religions. The Muslims did this. A guy just took the Bible and then did some reworking by adding a few things and now millions follow that religion. We see countless examples of this happening, so it's not outlandish at all to be skeptical of the Bible's historical evolution as well.
@@tonyhogg9839 I was thinking that too, honestly. And honestly it just adds to the "I can't even pretend to like it" factor. Religion (in my life) is about structure and ritual. I love religions that have structures and rituals! I like the community! But when the source material is like this - man, I can't even look at it
In the book Job 2:3, the Lord said: “..., to destroy him without cause”. It refers to destroy Job but Job actually was not killed. The same word “destroy” is used in Deuteronomy 7:2 NKJV. So the Lord did not mean to kill children just like the speaker says. From the above verse, we can see that the Lord is reasonable even in our eyes.
Still, what happened to Job was highly immoral too, Job was faithful and never sinned, yet he lost everything but his life (which he nearly lost as well due to his sickness). All this to prove a point to Satan? This definitely proves to me that the biblical God is not a perfect being, nor all powerful.
Stan S Yes, there is an adversary that accuses against us everyday in the heavenly courtroom. If God did not show this to us, at the judgement day, people would say why you did not tell us about it so we could have accepted the Lord Jesus as our Saviour on earth and as our advocate in front of God. The book of Job and the whole Holly Bible revealed this to us for our benefits. If you are not a Christian, please read the Bible a few times to know God’s salvation.
Antek, God creates the human race with a free will. Adam and Eve messed up at the very beginning, not God. You have your free will not to believe in Jesus, but God’s will is to have every person being saved. That is why that God sent His only be-gotten son Jesus to us, who was died on the cross for our sins. You will have the eternal life once you accept Him as your Lord and Savior.
I love how apologists will say "anybody who isn't Christian has no objective morality" when moral standards have existed longer than Yahweh, Judaism, or Christianity. I also think it's hilarious that they will prop up god as this unchanging moral compass and yet he operates on completely different moral standards depending on the timeline and writer of the book describing his acts. Even more, I love that any comment pointing out anything wrong with the arguments presented here is promptly deleted because the author knows that his bs can't stand up to logical criticism. But keep gobbling up that mana, sheep, it'll keep your hard earned dollars going into the coffers of corrupt and morally bankrupt churches.
"He gives life, he can take it away." I'd like to see you apply the same logic to your own children. And on the note that Atheists state that God doesn't stop evil then complain when he does, I would argue that the manner in which he stops it is what is worthy of complaint as well as ridicule. I mean really think about it for a moment. The ALL POWERFUL God of the universe that also infinitely loves couldn't have thought of a better way to turn the people from their ways? To stop the evil that was happening? No one can put any real serious thought combining those two concepts and NOT come up with a better solution to stop people from murder, child sacrifice, rape, etc. Here's an alternative: Why doesn't God come down in a form that won't consume everyone (he does it many years later in the form of Jesus) and draw the whole city to himself and speak to them and tell them or do for them what he knows will convince them of his goodness, divinity, love, and power? He's omnipotent. He can do that without taking away free will. How? He's OMNIPOTENT. Another option is for him to speak to every one of them individually whether in person or in their heads and convince them that there's a better way, lay it all out for them, show them the error of their ways. Or, at the very least, instead of burning them all to death he could have just thought them out of existence. But no, God, in his limitless power and love says, "I think the best solution is for them to be burned alive in terror and agony."
Hey Kristian, I have a couple of thoughts/questions. First, you begged the question (paraphrasing) "Why doesn't God reveal himself to everyone and show him what good/evil is and tell them to stop?" You interjected that Jesus did this once. My question is that if God (Jesus) did this once and many at the time did not believe, and many still don't believe today, what makes you believe that they would believe if he did it again? Second, if God truly is all powerful, all knowing, and good, then He can do whatever he wants the way He wants and still be "good." How can we argue the morality of God if He is the standard of morality?
@@FaithDoctrine First question - God did actually show himself to Saul in a way that forced him to believe. He became Paul and wrote most of the new testament as a result. 2. Goodness is described by Jesus. Scripture describes the fruits of the spirit as love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, self control, etc... Jesus states numerous times that his nature is that of the Father. Jesus said it would be better for someone to die than to harm the innocent children. The person of Jesus is very much at odds with someone who commands the killing of children. Wouldnt you say that a character trait of God to stay consistent?
@@justindavis2711 I would point out a couple of things from context with what you're saying there. 1) Saul could have still chosen to reject what the vision was clearly showing him. He wasn't forced but simply turned from what he was doing, and we know from many characters in the Bible that this was definitely not always the case, as with Balaam who straight up just argues with a speaking donkey like that's normal and justifies himself and his actions. 2) Jesus' comment in regards to innocent children is in regards to leading them astray towards the wrong path, not literal, physical harm to them. Many times Jesus makes it clear that the spiritual condition is of infinitely more importance to God than the temporal, physical condition which may or may not be uncomfortable at times. The OP also seemed to suggest that the Canaanites would have turned away from their ways of God showed up as Jesus did, and yet Jesus did actually show up and most people didn't change either in complacency or willful ignorance or rebellion against God. With free will, it is always possible to stick to self righteousness rather than submit to God.
@@dl5641 1.) A speaking donkey is in no way comparable to the transfigured manifestation of the living God. He did not experience a vision - he experienced God himself. It affected him so much he went blind. After having an experience like that, he would have to be mentally disabled to not believe it - in which case I'd argue that it wouldnt even be a choice because it would be caused by a disability, not rebellion. To say there was a choice involved is like saying there is a choice to leave your hand on a burning hot-pan. We have instincts and a rational mind that force us to accept things, and if we don't, we are considered to be mentally damaged - not rebellious. To say otherwise is to say that God lacks the ability to convince people of his own existence, which is a little bit silly. He can easily take someone and show them entirety of his creation, eternity, and fix their brain so that they can think rationally enough to accept his truth if he wanted. He is a limitless God, and we should not put him in a box. 2.) I accept that the specific scripture regarding Luke 17:2 as referencing the spiritual harm of children. However, there are still numerous scriptures contradicting the idea that God supports murder of innocent children, and wants us to care for them. Here is only a sinlge example: James 1:27 "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." Are you truly arguing that God would think it good and rightious to slit the throat of a child than to adopt them and raise them in the faith? Even when scripture literally says that God our Father wants us to care for orphans? I'll restate my position more clearly for you to understand it. Goodness is defined by Jesus. The Father is defined by Jesus. He said this numerous times. The Old Testament is written by those who did not have a full picture of the nature of God. This is why the Pharisees constantly disagreed with Jesus. Its also why Ecclesiastes virtually condradicts the entire gospel. Not all scriptures are to be taken literally, and we are supposed to view the Old Testament through the lense of Christ - not view Christ through the lens of the Old Testament. If you do that, you end up contradicting yourself on a constant basis. But if you use the correct lens, everything makes 1000x more sense.
You'd like to see the same logic applied to children? You're clueless as f... Frank addressed that directly in this very video that you watched. It's called Abortion and over 60 million lives have been taken, for nearly half a century.
I think my favorite part of the position of moral absolutes is this argument: Common Christian: Atheists don't have a moral standard to judge actions. Their objections come from their own SUBJECTIVE opinions. We as Christian's have an OBJECTIVE moral standard which comes from God's SUBJECTIVE opinion. . . Wait. I'm going to need a minute to rethink my argument.
I understand that feeling but I think If you were omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent you would know that a higher being can see things you don’t see and the best way to rephrase the sentence imo would be to “God cannot kill *unjustly* and be called a moral being”.
A sharp and powerful answer as usual. Anyone able to do this is in no doubt must have the guidance of the moral standards came from the Christ consciousness resides within him. Keep up the good work folks... 👍
@Ethan I don't have to do anything if my creation tries to overthrow me, since I am omnipotent (if I am God), and can defeat the uprising with nothing more than a snap of the fingers. I wouldn't need to destroy anyone in the process, and if I can't handle it without killing, then I am not God, since there is something I cannot do.
And if you want to justify an atrocity, just say God told you to do it. Thousands of years later people will be twisting themselves into knots trying to excuse God rather than realize ancient Israel had some evil leaders. What a monster Frank believes God to be!
Speedzone Speedforce Maybe you are right, but when the mafia shows up at your door to forcibly evict you, who are you going to blame? The mafia boss or the hit men?
For heaven sake. How many of you people do not realize that you would have believed just as fervently in Apollo had you been born in the right time and place? Take a half a step back and actually think!
If God could change hearts (think God hardening the Pharoah's heart) then couldn't he have done the opposite to the Canaanites to stop all the evil they were commiting? Isn't it a little extreme to annihilate them?
The word of God also says “the goodness of God leads you to repentance.” If people hate His goodness they cannot change. Aside from judging the canaanites God also wanted to prevent the Israelites from practicing their evil ways. So for that cause they were slaughtered. If the Israelites were corrupted in all their generations Jesus Christ could not be born through a Holy seed.
God is an epic failure in everything he planned did or thought. The Bible is a how-to book on genocide and a chronicle if all his failings. As a supreme being he could have gotten it right from the beginning, but had to constantly cleanse and start over. Must be a pretty dumbass God. I could have planned and performed better with his powers.
@@daviddpful Calling me names doesn't change the long list of God's failures. Thus is what believers do. When confronted with uncomfortable or unsupportable facts, they attack the messenger rather than address the points presented. That says what you need to know.
@@spocksvulcanbrain Who says I'm calling you names the truth of the matter is that you are dumb because is that what you are and to tell you the truth it doesn't matter if you point God failures or you don't believe in him at the end even if I explain to you these topics you still will be in denial and it will be a waste of time just like you came here to see this video explaining these topics, so saved it.
Awesome explanations many confirm my own thoughts on it, I hadn't heard the abortion argument though excellent, another curiosity is people rarely call out those situations where the Jews or Israelites came under judgement, but only when other cultures faced consequences do the fingers point at God.
Romans 6:23 *For the wages of sin is death;* but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. YOU WILL DIE IF YOU SIN, THEREFORE GOD CAN END YOU!
@@anonymousjohnson976 No because they don't know from right and wrong. "And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad" Deut 1:39 Heaven belongs to children; innocent beings. “Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these” Mt 19:14-15
The problem with most of these atheistic questions is they are applying THEIR perspective of morality, which is all over the place. Example: "GENOCIDE = BAD" Yet genocide of babies = Good👍
Gorgiving: he literally gave the other nations many many years to repent of their atrocities they did ,killing babies for their gods, etc.. . It is mentioned that when isrealites were crossing one of those nations(i forgot it's name) he told them leave them alone cis there time hasn't come yet , showing that he still is showing mercy on them to stop their bad ways , but they didn't. Ethical: what exactly did he do that was unethical? All good: wellll... he is but if ur perspective of what is gd differs than his then y should check whether what we humans consider good is really gd .
All I see in the comments is atheists saying how foolish Frank sounds but don’t have anything to say about all the points he made and how he absolutely owned the guy ‘s questions. Kinda like when a child knows he’s wrong but continues to pout and display frustration with no explanation. Ahhh I love Frank
Not sure how youtube sent me here, but I had trouble accepting any of the arguments put forth by this presentation. 1. The atrocity point. The argument is basically God gave us morality so it is only through that gift we can judge others to be right or wrong. This argument makes no sense because for it to contradict you must accept the first premise that only God can give morality. If morality(as we understand it, not perfect or objective) has a natural means of occurring then there is an explanation for how we can judge others and also judge the actions of gods. If this argument is true, God is the source of morality but he only revealed himself to one set of people, and then judged everyone whom he did not reveal himself too, for not following in his commands. 2. The God that the Bible describes is a tribal and angry god. He gives descriptions for terrible acts, yet is unaware or blind to the terrible acts he is forcing others to commit. If the Canaanites were such terrible people, why did he not exterminate them himself and absolve the people of Moses from having to commit genocide. Why did an all powerful being who has the ability to do anything task a set of people with exterminating their own kind? Would the all loving and caring God of the new testament be so barbaric and hateful, if he is a timeless all knowing being? 3. Sending people to slaughter another set of people is hardly "stopping evil" in fact its directly commanding evil to be done. How can a god command such terrible acts and pretend that he is still a good and loving god? It does not matter that the Canaanites were burning babies alive, killing them is not righteous or just. God who created man should be responsible for man's actions. If they are acting outside his code of ethics, he should be the one to swing the sword. 4. If you begin something, you are responsible for it. You are also responsible for how you decide to govern and treat all the life that you began. If you take a life without the consent of the living creature, then you have stolen the life away. When you give someone a gift, it is no longer your property. You can be concerned and want the best for it, but you cannot take it back and do with it as you please, it is no longer yours. Does an all knowing being create a universe where you will exist and make decisions, then punishes you making the decisions he knew you would make sound like a just and fair god? 5. God does not have the right to manipulate life whoever it may see fit. See the previous point. If God has to shuffle people around as a way of micromanaging it also shows that he is not omniscient since he must constantly course correct, where as a being with actual omniscience would have known the end before even beginning. Also the fact that some people can be shifted into plane of existence that consists only of pain and sadness for all eternity just does not seem fair.
Saying God is a moral monster only validates what the Bible say about the atheists. Psalm 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good."
shout out to @nickj14711 always lurking in the comments just waiting to spread hate to all Christians under every Frank Turek video I wish you the best dude, I hope one day you can see past your pride
nickj14711 I do see what you’re doing as spreading hate because you’re obviously not trying to grow from any of the arguments you’re starting with people. You’re talking down to everyone as if you already have all of the answers, and all Christians are blind sheep. I can’t remember what thread it was, but you even said you were “winning” all of these arguments, and you “haven’t lost one yet.” You’re obviously not trying to grow and learn from these conversations if you see it as winning or losing a competition. You just seem angry at Christianity. No one on here is threatening anyone with hell. We’re told to live like Jesus, and He never did that. I honestly hate seeing street preachers shout at people and act like they’re better than everyone, so I’m sorry that you haven’t had good experiences with Christians. We can talk about homosexuality later if you want. Talk, not you talk down to me like you do to everyone. Frank doesn’t spread hate at all? I can’t name one time he’s threatened anyone? I hope you see my point here. You’re talking to everyone on here like they’re Hitler, but we’re just normal people who have genuine reasons for our beliefs, like I’m sure you do.
@@jericawilson1484 Totally! Well, divine command theory claims that right and wrong is connected to god's will. It also claims that religion and morality are synonymous which is not the reality of human development. Morality developed before religion.There are many objections to DCT such as factions within single religions, the problem of evil (why does it even exist if there is an omnipotent god?) and contradictory commandments, just to name a few, However the biggest issue DCT raises is what really makes it crumble. It's known as the Euthyphro Dilemma found in Plato's Euthyphro. Socrates asks in the play, "Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?" This raises two points - The fist being that piousness or *virtue* exists independent of God, therefore god cant be omnipotent because there is a standard that transcends god. The second part of the dichotomy is the idea that holiness or *ethics* are not independent of god and therefore the only standard of virtue is whatever god says. Therefore if god commanded everyone to say, take their son on a gloomy walk up a hill to sacrifice him or to kill a whole group of people and rape their daughters, those actions would be considered moral in the eyes of those who claim the second. And that is blatantly not true. God doesn't exist - especially the abrahamic one.
Oasis Flame that doesn’t make sense considering the world now is so much better and more knowledgeable than when people in the Middle East were following this book when it was first written. Of course your god is your religion, otherwise, you wouldn’t even know about them
@@oasisflame And what did God want religion to stand for, represent, say about him, or control or govern, also? Is He active, passive, or what, about such issues?
It’s fascinating to me, the difficulty of people to publicly frame a concise question. Inevitably, they ramble, mutter, and fill the air with sounds as if they’ve lost control of their mind. No wonder relationships fail more often than they succeed.
well, I'm afraid public speaking is just really difficult if you haven't done it before. I'm sure that young man will get better at framing his questions the more he practices
God being omnipotent and all knowing outside the confines of time that he created the entire concept of, created us knowing all these things would happen?
He doesn’t control what we do, he gave us free will. So just because he knows all things are going to happen doesn’t mean he should change every little thing because then we would not have free will. Instead he intervenes when he sees fit
6:03 "People never die. They just change locations." Sounds like the lie that the serpent told Eve. "Thou shalt not surely die." Didn't God say that if they were to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that they would die? Christianity never taught immortality of the soul until Roman Catholicism introduced it.
I heard once that the only character in the Bible who always wanted to tell the truth was the snake. It is... sketchy that god being god punished Eve for something he knew she would do. The snake wanted her to see reality and not play god’s game. I find this interesting.
@@rafaelrivera364 have you ever read the Book of Judas? It kind of elaborates on that idea. It's really fascinating and if you haven't, I very much recommend it!
@@rafaelrivera364 just go read it, bible dot com is there and the app is there. You can even press a play button and have it read out loud if ur feeling busy or lazy but cherry picking and versus isnt as good as reading all the meat
@@rafaelrivera364 "god's game" What game? You forget that God is greater than all of us humans, and it is righteous for us to obey Him as our creator. He loved us by creating us, therefore we should love Him back by giving our lives to Him because it is good. In fact, God is so good that He offered Himself upon a cross to die for us, to save us from all our sins, so that we may LIVE forever in heaven with Him. That's what God meant when He said that they would die. They would become fallen, and they would lose their innocence. If you question why God would do all of this even though He knew everything, it's because He wanted us to freely choose Him. We can't genuinely love God if we are all mindless robots on auto-pilot.
Suffering exists independent of morality. Causing mass suffering for the reason of “I’m God I made morality” is sickening even if the term “sickening” is subjective.
Wow! Excellent answer! Just looking at these videos it's clear yet again that man has traded God in exchange of themselves as god, in defining good and evil for themselves and they actually decided that God is evil. Gofigure! Hmm...This reminds me of these words "Did God actually say you shall not eat of any the tree in the garden?..."you won't surely die, God knows when you eat of the tree you will be as gods knowing both good and evil." And ever since that choice, the results have been confusion and death and every evil, including the self righteous nicety of the notion of peace without God. The rippling effects are evidently seen to this very day, so proving the truth of the Genesis account. People, the devil lied, sin held the promise of liberty, yet has only enslaved man and insulated him in aurguments through a dark concious that's now against God. And since that first doubt of God (which was originally external, but now is internal through sin) we naturally have a bent towards unbelief and call in to question everything that is? From which compulsion drives man in fear or arrogance or both to define reality for himself thus making himself God. It's sad and we actually blame God for it as if man did not freely choose AFTER being clearly forewarned. Look around and within, this and that is what we have chosen over God, the existing One by whom all things exist who's being is absolute and glorious beyond compare and we were actually made by and for Him, that is, He defines us and not we Him! That's an awesome reality that if God didn't intervene, we would all, and have all rejected Him to our own detriment. He's allowed the consequences of our choices to be seen to show His glory that He is both sovereign and righteous and man has (a resposible) free will. For all things are from Him and to Him. There is no reality but Him, which is why all sin is ultimately againt Him. Come on man we are all guilty as charged and our arguments against truth only proves the truth. The word of God is true. Repent and believe the Gospel.
+Jesusistheonlyway How is endorsing owning another human being as property moral? ....the god of the bible does. How is promoting misogyny moral? ....the god of the bible does. How is killing little boys and saving all the little virgin girls for use by the Hebrews moral? ....that's what the god of the bible ordered How is scape goating moral? ....that's what the god of the bible promotes
@Sean Pittaway So my questions to you are. Why believe anyone or anything Sean? Isn't everything written by man? By your comment it appear you deem this beneath you. Why did you comment? Why would you ever waste your time? For that's exactly what it would be if you saw nothing fruitful in giving your words. Was it to show yourself superior to idiots? Then ask yourself why are you on this thread talking to "idiots", would you not rather offer insight to make your word worthy of thought and even more dare step up to answer some of humanities deepest questions longings and brights which are explicitly and implicitly manifest here? Was your friend in the video? Have you tried to believe in God but your own logic, feelings, experiences or lack thereof won? Is it scientific "evidence"? If so... evidence of what? Existence? Because that's all they've been able to prove.. that we exist..that common knowledge afforded to all. They don't know -how- they just know -that-! Why believe that or them? With all its variants and subjectivities and yes flaws? I love science always have. But Isn't those things written by man also and ultimately determined by one such as yourself, why do you take their word for it? When it comes to religion. Does man need religion to destroy himself? I when things out things extreme on purpose. Anybody willing to search can see many groups and individuals alike have done a fine job doing this apart from religion... why? Can you trully know a thing unless you have looked into for yourself? Have you truly sought God dared to talked to Him honestly asked Him if you are real show me I want things I want things opening know personally? Or are you too dignified for that? I asked that slew of questions on purpose and I would like real answers too..if you can answer them better than the bible.. with not just logic but you must also give satisfying or at least hopeful answers for the exsitence of emotions as well. What seems hypocritical to me (and im speaking in general and not you perse) is how man in pretenses of knowledge ignore the profound fact that we are all moment by moment swallowed up in mystery on every side even after so called discoveries we are utterly uncertain of every single second that exist beyond the one we live in..thus every man in a sense lives his life by faith/trust/hope in a future something! Even the smartest (scientist, scholars "geniuses") among us know nothing and they admit it if you just listen to them. They change their minds with every discovery through many times they plant confident flags in the previous one. That we know nothing is the same argument unbelievers have against believers, to which we willingly admit as well BUT here is the difference we know the One who does know it all for it all came from Him and is unto Him. At some point you are simply left to believe or not. And when it comes to the so called "greats"..they are kids playing with mud and materials (which they didn't and can't create) in an local space for a moment in time, then they return to the same mud themselves....for all of their studies and discoveries are in a very real sense ultimately subjective for they themselves are of the same thing they seek to look into which proves vain...moreover by the same endeavors they prove from within, that man knows there is more than meets the eye, that there are realities that cannot be put under a microscope but are reality nontheless..however mysterious they may be.. the intellect is one of them so is desire and emotion. If our rationale, science and yes even our perceived and self admitted capacities for more, the unknown, wonder, excitement, the neverending, and ever increasing desires for pleasures and beauty would truly be worth the honor we seek to give it, we must reason upward and grant that there must be a corresponding existence whereby all these things evidently in us find meaning and fullfilment..thus reason and our very makeup does not negate God but rather proves Him and the denial of that in the search for fullfilment in other ways He has overwhelmingly furnished proof of Himself inside and out which is exactly why doubt is sin. Existence is comes from existnce subtance from substance are consistent witnesses we have in nature! Reflective even in imagination, for example these devices we use are proof of how the visible things are made from the invisible..for ex. Sean somebody made that device you use to view this very comment with and before that device was made it didn't exist..now it does yet the one who made it, existed before it, and is greater than the device and exist for the maker and not the other way around. There can only be two ways to look at this, either man is his own definer of not just right and wrong but existence itself OR there is a being who has always existed, from whom and which all things and persons have their existence and though beyond comprehension, makes perfect sense in that His beign is completely necessary and indispensable to all being, and by this same reason could not be any being without His being including personal being, for if personhood were not in this eternal being to begin with, there could be no personal being or being at all..for only imtellects and emotions decide and desire to create. And its THAT being having all power who would actually be able to communicate Himself understandably to rational beings HE MADE in His own image. That's what we believe and we don't slaughter reason to get there only surrender to higher reasoning. Your unbelief is simply a denial of all the evidence of God, with existence itself being among our greatest witness. There is no such thing as nothing from nothing no man has ever seen that and he won't because THAT don't exist. But God does. At that moment Jesus said: My Father, Lord of heaven and earth, I am grateful that you hid all this from wise and educated people and showed it to ordinary people. “Truly I tell you,” He said, “unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Let no one deceive himself: If anyone among you thinks himself to be wise in this age, let him become foolish, so that he may become wise. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. Without faith it is impossible to please God for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarded of those who diligently seek Him. God resist the proud but gives grace to the humble
@@ricksmith3442 the ideas you have expressed here are not the God of the bible ...and whatever instances you cite for your interpretations can only be rightly understood in the context of the witness of all scripture. These are like two peices to a 1000 piece puzzle, they cannot alone give a comprehensive view of the picture so also by this "a view" of "a god" could emerges but it will not be the God of the bible. It's crucial to have an understanding. It's alot deeper than that Rick and a diligent, prayful, humble search of the scriptures to find the God of the scriptures is rewarding and of utmost importance.. but if you are already settled on what you've said above as the way you will see Him, nothing I say can help you if there is no willing heart to understand God and man also and His dealings with him.
Atheist morality: generally being nice to other people, even though you know you're not going to get any reward by a devine being, not in the here and now nor in an afterlife. Why would you do such a thing? The ability to empathise and the realisation that if you do good to other people, they may do something for you in return later. How did this come about? Evolution. Cooperation increases your chances of survival. Being cooperative is built into our genes. "Good" and "evil" are poor terms to describe what's really going on in our universe. Things either work or they don't. All else seems like an extra and unnecessary layer of hooha to me. But that's just my humble opinion.
Isn’t that more or less the same? You described Christians doing good for rewards from God. But you also said basically that Atheists do good out of the chance they might benefit?
@@nattybumppo4151 no, you are just looking at it on a material level. simply being good to people makes us feel good already, and could also lead to more benefits in the long run than killing people would
You are personifying God too much. God is not a human like me or you; He is an extradimensional being. He exists outside of time and space, and He is the creator of all things. God IS the moral standard that we look up to. We do not take life because we can't create it. Only God can create life, and we procreate through Him. We do not judge others because God is the moral standard. God is worthy of our time because He is Infinite Love, and He is the only thing ever that will ever satisfy our desires. He loved us by creating us, and He wants to continue to love us in heaven. We just have to accept His love and love Him back. If we are wicked people, God will love others by giving justice to us. If we do injustice, God MUST do justice to repay for what was lost to the ones He loves. For example, if someone killed my brother, God will love me by giving justice to the wicked person who killed my brother on the last day. It is fair, good, and right. Matthew 5:6, "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied."
Great points on how people complain about God not stopping evil, and then complain when he does. I think it's also important to point out that many times when God commanded the Israelites to wipe out the Canaanites that our english translations of the Bible often translate those passages as getting rid of women, children, young and old. However, in the original Hebrew language that specificity is not included. It never says women and children. The Hebrew word that is used just means every living thing. Our english translations point out women and children young and old to try and emphasize that the word means all living things, but the original language never points out those specifics. AND, since the areas that Joshua was attacking (such as Jericho) were military and political bases, not general population centers, it is highly unlikely that women and children would have been present. It would be equivalent of the President of the United States ordering a drone strike on an ISIS camp. He may say, "I want you to totally wipe out that ISIS camp." Yes, he is calling for total annihilation, but he is certainly not calling for the murder of women and children, young and old. Just the terrorists on their base.
You misunderstand athiest contentions with this. Imagine a house was burning with innocent people inside, there's a guy with a giant hose and we plea for him to stop this situation. He uses the hose but then in addition to putting out the fire he drowns everyone inside, understandibly we are appalled with the way he chose to fix the problem not taking the people inside into consideration but instead he just shurgs and goes "you wanted my help". The point is what god does in the old testament to fix problems is complete overkill and completely sociopathic.
What Frank must explain is how people who have never read biblical text or predate biblical scripture knew right from wrong. Did god implant that from the beginning making these texts useless? God knows exactly what it would take for anyone to believe in him yet he chooses not to. God loves atheists.
There are verses that indicate that creation itself testifies of God's existence. Verses that talk about how God's law is written on mans heart (or something to that extent). Romans 1:18 says men "suppress the truth". Basically according to the bible, every person is born being able to know the basics of right from wrong. The Ten Commandments and the bible go more in depth, I guess you could say.
the funny thing is that this question is so common that he has a powerpoint prepared
ya if u have done a hundred talk, u'll get similar questions. those questions were asked to speaker like ravi zacharias as well
Yeah pretty much the questions he gets would be, what about all the Old Testament stuff (wiping out nations, slavery), what about a loving God sending people to hell... he answers these type of questions really well.
Thinking the same thing. 😁 Great video.
Even down to specifics lmao I loved that it actually included the Canaanite situation on the slide
true.
I’m no Christian but I will admit that I laughed when he pointed out that Atheists state God doesn’t stop evil and then complain when he does...
What’s stopping you from being Christian? Are you just looking into different things right now?
RLK Brown don’t know really, happy to remain as an agnostic; I don’t believe that there isn’t a God, I don’t agree with many atheist arguments etc.
Guess I’m just sat on the fence with it all.
Kym Moore okay well I hope you find the answers you are looking for! Even as a Christian I don’t know it all and we are all still learning from each other
You can always reach out to Jesus. The bible says those that seek him earnestly and with a whole heart they will find him.
If you ever have any questions or would like any insight about Christianity or the Bible please let me or someone else know. You of course have to be careful of heretics, (as there are crazy people wherever you go anyways). I’m very glad to hear that you are at least thinking and open to new ideas, and it can be very hard to wrap your head around it all. I would be more than happy to exchange my email or something if you would like to atleast discuss some things or I could attempt to get you started somewhere. I’m not an amazing apologist or experienced pastor, but if I can serve and be of any help please don’t hesitate to ask. I’m not seeking to be some internet troll either. Much love for you, I truly wish for the best.
3:30 "they've been doing all sorts of awful things for 400 years, and i've been patient" 3:35 *reverb from mic kicks in* BUT NOW IT'S JUDGEMENT DAY
"they've been doing all sorts of awful things for 400 years which I carefully arranged down to the last detail as part of my Perfect Plan for Mankind. BUT NOW IT'S JUDGEMENT DAY AND I AM in BIG TROUBLE!
James Richard Wiley you people make me “SMH”
@@JamesRichardWiley 'I'm going to do what I want. He knows he doesn't like me doing bad things things. He already knows what I'm gonna do and so I'm gonna do it anyway because this is also what I want not he wants. But now it's judgement day, he could have stopped me. I mean he gave me thoughts of not doing it and I knew that there would be judgement for it but despite his warnings, he didn't stop me from doing what I want and what I just thought to be right. So why the heck am I in trouble for doing such things despite him warning me? Such an awful God for letting me choose my destiny despite warning me of the shortcomings.
@@ashishhembrom3905 A world in which no bad thing can happen is a world without choice. We have a choice, thus we are in a free world. But that means both good and bad things can and do happen. So if the Bible is true, the whole thing is summarized by Jesus of Nazareth around 30 AD/CE -- "See I set before you this day, life and death. Choose life that you may live." You are in a free world. You have a choice. Choose life.
@@ashishhembrom3905 wow, give a choice GOD is wrong not giving a choice GOD is still wrong. GOD gave you a free will to choose to believe or not it is that simple, so simple that you don't need a degree to understand it.
Plus GOD don't owe us anything and weather you believe it or not we owe God for giving us freewill.
You reap what you saw.
“History isn’t kind to men who play God” James Bond said it best
So we have a movie lover.
Too bad we can’t see the movie :(
Justin Kiwi, hallo! Do you ever disobey your conscience?
Chapter and verse please
His word is his bond👍👍👍👍
I want to be a powerful witness for people just like Frank. Itll take a while, but someday I'll be able to do it
+@UC9gq1aOZBfKskyfQFDOP9kg
Frank is an *apologist* who can't back up anything he spews.... You should strive to much higher goals.
Start where you are at. Ask God to use you right where you are and He will.
@@ricksmith3442 is a guy who watches someone he believes that can't back up anything he says but still finds time to watch anyways and comment and make his videos more popular.
+@@Light-StandFinances
By youtube standards, at 91,847 views, it's never going to make it to "popular" level. lol
You are as big a failure as the video.
What's your next whine? lol
@@ricksmith3442 91000 is quite a high number believe it or not.
Isaiah 55:9 As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
WebDev
So - Why are w you quoting an "ours is not to reason why" narrative on an apologetic video where Frankie tries to establish that he can reason why?
Dr Curious Very well put.
@@Dr-Curious because he is trying to save a lot of time , are you familiar with the philosophical writings of CS Lewis , not his children's stories but his commentaries on the Bible you could call it , it is well worth reading if you have the means
@@travelsouthafrica5048
"because he is trying to save a lot of time ,"
Dodging online in public isn't a smart look for anyone - especially in an apologetic debate.
Sorry - I got deeply bored of CS lewis.
@@Dr-Curious i didn't dodge it you imbecile I told you that CS Lewis answer all these childish questions in depth
People hate God, because He holds evil accountable and people love their sins.
Not believe hate
People don't usually hate people they don't think are real. Also, it seems your god loves sin more than anyone else, since he does the most sinning in the Bible.
@Mr Wash Brutally slaughtering children is a sin.
@Mr Wash That's circular reasoning combined with a twisted, deranged, and utterly delusional excuse for child slaughter. An omnipotent God cannot possibly have an excuse for it.
This God's brilliant plan to stop child sacrifice was to sacrifice the rest of the children, only without the use of an alter? If children go to Heaven automatically when they die, why is child sacrifice wrong? I don't see how the addition of an alter makes it any more evil than slaughtering a child because a god told you to.
Imagine I put a two-year-old girl into her car seat, light a cigarette, and burn her all over her body before taking her to Disney World. Do you think the judge and jury are going to care that I brought her to Disney World? There is no excuse for child slaughter when you are omnipotent, and can simply snap your fingers to bring children to Heaven.
According to your logic, abortion is a good thing, and we should abort every fetus until we are all extinct, so everyone is born in Heaven, and no more will go to Hell. We should kill every child we can.
Your reasoning is the sick and delusional reasoning that a mother who was convicted of murdering her children used: She was convinced she was saving her children from Hell, because God put it on her heart that they, just like those Canaanite children, would end up in Hell if they reached the age of reason. Your belief about the age of reason and accountability is dangerous, and cannot be found in the Bible.
"GOD owns all that HE created, HE has the right to do what ever HE wants with HIS creation."
That is the reasoning of a murderous slave owner. Being God does not make you moral if you are doing immoral things. If you created someone that can suffer, and then make them suffer, you are not justified just because you created them. Suppose I owned a dog, I'd go to prison for animal abuse if I abused and killed it.
@Mr Wash " In 1 Samuel 15:2-3, God commanded Saul and the Israelites, “This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'" God ordered similar things when the Israelites were invading the promised land (Deuteronomy 2:34; 3:6; 20:16-18). Why would God have the Israelites exterminate an entire group of people, women and children included?
"
Because, he is characteristically evil, just like all unrepentant genocidal maniacs are.
"This is a difficult issue. We do not fully understand why God would command such a thing,"
That is because there is no excuse for child slaughter, that is why you cannot understand how there can be a righteous murderer of children. It is difficult, because you have to do incredible mental gymnastics to make excuses for criminal behavior. Just ask any criminal who makes excuses for their criminal behavior, blaming others instead of themselves.
"but we trust God that He is just"
Yes, because you have been brainwashed to think that justice allows the brutal slaughter of children, because you use circular reasoning to conclude that your god is just ("Our genocidal god is just. How do we know he is just, despite killing all those children in brutal ways? Because, he said he is just, and if Hitler says he's just to kill Jewish children, then he is just to do so"). There is nothing just about your god's behavior toward children, or just about Hitler's behavior toward children. Both qualify as genocidal maniacs who have zero justification.
"and we recognize that we are incapable of fully understanding a sovereign, infinite, and eternal God."
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that mass genocide of children is immoral, or that dishing out infinite torture for finite crimes is the ultimate evil.
"As we look at difficult issues such as this one, we must remember that God’s ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts (Isaiah 55:9; Romans 11:33-36)."
Right. It makes sense if you don't think about it, so just say that we could never understand.
"We have to be willing to trust God and have faith in Him even when we do not understand His ways.
"
Faith is foolishness, because it is belief without evidence or proof. I reject faith as the most dishonest position one can hold, and consider it extremely foolish. See how it is making you come up with deranged excuses for a mass murderer of children? I understand your god's ways perfectly fine, and they are utterly evil. What makes it worse is that he hides behind a facade of love and forgiveness, even while burning most people forever and killing small children. His words and actions are not in tune with each other, and when that is the case, I go with the actions to tell what is in the heart. Your god's heart is full of infinite hatred for all who burn in Hell, and that is why he dishes out infinite torture. He is an god with severe anger issues and abnormal psychology. Thank the real God that he is imaginary, and is only a reflection of an ancient god-king tyrant who pretends to love anyone who bows to him and obeys him without question, even when he commands the mass genocide of children.
"Unlike us, God knows the future."
This does nothing to excuse subjecting small children to extreme suffering and terror while they are being slaughtered. You are sick, and need help.
"God knew what the results would be if Israel did not completely eradicate the Amalekites."
Or, your god lied about it. Had that ever occurred to you? The Bible says that he sent a delusion to make people believe lies, so it admits that he is also a deceiver, which is in holding with him being a mass murderer.
"If Israel did not carry out God’s orders, the Amalekites would come back to trouble the Israelites in the future."
So, we should kill all the children of Muslim terrorists, according to your logic. That future problems may arise is not an excuse to commit mass genocide of children.
You certainly have done impressive mental gymnastics to justify the mass genocide of small children and a god that is no better than Molech, a murderer of children.
To be honest, the hardest part about studying the Bible is not just trying to understand its more cryptic messages, but accepting the messages that you already understand. The Bible is truth but the truth can often be a very bitter pill to swallow, but swallow it we must if we are to join our Lord in Heaven when the time comes.
Totally agree!!
Maybe that’s a sign that you should treat it with some skepticism. If you have to use countless examples of mental gymnastics to justify something, then it’s probably not correct
@@tsarnicholasii274 😂😂
truth is like a fire it repels and attracts
@@tsarnicholasii274 Exactly! The Bible isn’t truth. Snakes can’t talk, and people don’t live to be 900 years old. The human race was doing perfectly fine long before Christianity and all other religions came along.
It’s a shame that so many people choose comfort over reality.
This is the question I hear most often. The whole "You complain that God doesn't stop evil, and then we have an example of God stopping evil and you complain about that" thing is an incredible point! Adding that to my tool belt.
The example Frank gave here is 100% gibberish. God is all powerful. Capable of literally anything. He could have snapped his finger and fixed these people. Or he could have just, you know, not designed them to act this way (since he knew from the start this would happen).
There's no reason an all powerful God should resort to murder and genocide. He has literally infinite options. That's why "the atheists complain", because God committing murder is STILL evil, no matter what the people he murdered did.
In fact, since God is all knowing and all powerful, it's HIS FAULT these people are acting this way in the first place.
So sorry. This isn't "an incredible point", it's nonsense. I'd bet my house every "tool" in your "tool belt" is nonsense as well.
There's a lot wrong with it.
A. I don't actually believe that there's a god, so I'm not complaining that it doesn't stop evil, just pointing out that if it exists in this reality it's doing a crappy job.
B. When you commit a greater act of "evil" to fix "evil", did you actually fix anything?
"There's a murderer living in that house"
"Cool, kill everyone male and non-virgin female in there, but take the virgins as sex slaves, that'll reduce our crime rate!".
Refutation (1) added to inventory
@@holycrusader7804 It's not a refutation of anything, it's embarrassingly incorrect.
@@flanderg123 I understand how u viewed it that way I have a friend who brought this to my attention and now I understand it a bit more. So we have to take a look at it through the lens of a timeless being seeing that there is a common theme of nations going through a transformation that at the apex is it’s full moral depravity and each nation does it America is on its course too but there is time for lots of people to be saved through God’s patience
Since I subscribed to this channel I have learnt a lot. I have been a believer my whole life and yet there were many things I didn't knew. Thank you for educating me, brother. May God bless you, Amen.
bibin john much like many others answers we never looked for or questions we couldn’t answer this guy does a great job
I presume you do not believe in the Hindu, Muslim and Hebrew god.
Only the Christian god, Yeshua.
I’m 71 years old and he’s teaching me things, too.
Mee too
Rape and slavery. Real facts, just read the Bible, God's rules condoned owning slaves and bashing them close to death if necessary and enslaving their wife and their offspring children Exodus 21.
Its was ok raping virgins and forcing the victim to marry the rapist also. Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Drunken incest was also ok, but an inocent quick look at something very interesting deserved instant death for no just reason by salt metamorphism, Lot and his daughters did the dirty deed. Genesis 19:26-38
Killing first borns and slaughtering and butchering thousands of Amalekite and many other racist wars. Flooding the earth killing women and children and unborn babies
which is equal to mass abortions. Now go read your Bible with your eyes wide open and your brains turned on.
God through Jesus showed us exactly what he is like.
Indeed. It was jesus who introduced the concept of hell and burning forever for not believing he's a lovely guy.
Very recognisable in the gawd of the old testament.
Albert Stegeman, and people like hitler Will see what they deserve. Justice will be served!
People choose to go to hell and deny gods son wilfully, god Won’t force heaven onto us, neither can a sinner enter a perfect Kingdom or then the kingdom won’t be perfect anymore.
And if god was a Soft Heartless Spirit then there would be no consequences to the evil people in this world! Then where would the true Justice be!?
God would be evil if there was no hell! Because If he served no justice then that means hitler got away will his EVIL, that man who raped that woman got away with it, and pedophiles, child rapists would also get away with there EVIL!
We will Reap our own choices And Actions That are evil, they must have consequences Or there would be No justice or Fair judgment. And no reason for a sinner to change.
If there was no prison people would simply just not care About anything, and the world would go crazy, and crimes would increase with No Justice.
But when people realise there’s a consequence to evil actions, it stops them from committing that evil and saves a lot of trouble from happening.
Why should god force you to go to heaven when you clearly hate his character and don’t want anything to do with him anyway!?
That’s why he gave you free will!
And the gift of free will is True love.
God loves you enough to let you make Your own choices and not program you into a robot to love him.
You better believe it. It’s your choice really to live reject God or accept God. Existence without God is hell even on earth.
@@declan.mclean3857
Being punished for wrong doings: sure.
Being punished for not believing a phony story of a skydad who sent his son, who was himself, to be punished because a female ate an apple thousands of years ago. And that's my fault.
The bible in a nutshell.
By the way, just curious: will there be free will in heaven?
@@Mr.mallaer
If living here on earth without god is hell, I can assure you from experience: it's not bad at all.
“What kind of king makes Himself nothing for His people?
The Mighty one.
What kind of king lets His people humiliate and beat Him until He is unrecognizable and is still able to hold His head high?
The Merciful one.
What kind of king hangs Himself on a cross for his people?
The Righteous one.
And because He has done this for us I will make my life a living sacrifice unto Him.”
His name is above all others His name is JESUS!
What kind of evil God sends himself to suffer for three days, and then sends all future people who don't "believe" in him, to suffer in eternity?
@@BScott7220 God is perfect, for the immoral man to question the Creator of morality is quite silly.
Should an individual go unpunished for their crimes?
@@Homesteader1776 Yes he seems to think so and based on his logic if you don't "believe" in God you automatically go to hell. What if you do believe in God but is still greedy, selfish, envious will that be enough to get you saved? faith without action is dead. And he seems to think that God sacrificing himself for us makes him somehow evil for doing that which doesn't make sense to me.
@brandon weidner
To start the lords and saviors name is YESHUA not Jesus. Secondly he’ll is not eternal, it’s your eternal outcome. The Bible uses the word forever 56 times to describe something with a definite end. It’s not the punishing that’s eternal but the punishment... being separated from god, from sin. Not only this but hell is not fire, fire is symbolic, and Satan and demons don’t rule hell they will be punished also. Not only this so many prophecies have come true, 12 tribes of Israel scattered” certain African people, specifically ones in American from Soave ships, Hispanics and Indians.
The signs in the stars
The mark of the beast
And I. The older original Greek written revaluation we are warned not to say the name Jesus because that name is of false phrophet
For better explanation watch parable of the vineyard and hope through prophecy
@@lucid_lucas4509 If someone is truly seaking after God willing to be fully obedient to the call He has placed on their lives, with them having no idea that Our Saviors name in Hebrew is Yeshua, intern referring to Him as Jesus would God still respond to the individual?
Wow...I've never heard it put like that before. Thank you for this!!
Hi Jennifer
Ezequiel King Alcalá sup b
Well let me provide a counter argument that you have never heard before:
His whole “Atheists complain when God doesn’t step in to stop atrocities, but then also complain when he does step in” argument is still extremely problematic, because it shows that God is inconsistent. How were the Nazis any different from the awful group that he brought up? They two burned children alive, and enslaved, murdered, and tortured millions, so why was God inconsistent with his punishments? Why did he choose to let the Nazis slaughter his creations when he had put an end to that awful behavior before? And this also shows the holes in the “free will” argument. As humans do we, or do we not have free will? Because it certainly didn’t seem like we did back then; God was constantly interfering with our actions; causing floods, wiping out civilizations; spreading plagues, etc. But now what? The divine intervention just stopped. Did God just grow apathetic? Did he abandon us and label us as a lost cause? I’d like to see how the speaker would try to justify that.
The Batman Why are you asking me these questions instead of Frank Turek? but let me try to provide an explanation since your asking me.
According to Deut 32:8 and Psalm 82, God divided up the nations (land and people) to watchers who then disobeyed Him and let wickedness abound, so God brought a people of His own through Abraham which would become His portion, His nation and His land. So when He rescued His people from Egypt there were other nations inhabiting His land doing detestable things as child and human sacrifice as well as worship of those other gods...ON HIS LAND. So he used His people as weapons (for many reasons other than just sending fire from Heaven) to wipe them out -although they didn’t fully wipe them out so their religion would surface from time to time and led His people astray...hence why He told them to wipe them out completely. WWII was not on His land and also after he sent His son Jesus to die for our salvation. So that is why the “atrocities” - as you put it, were bestowed upon those people. God never demanded lives or attacks outside of His own land. God sent His 10 commandments and the rain falls on the just and as well as the unjust. Thus FREE WILL. Even the other gods had free will and chose evil. So do we have a choice. Every action, obeying God or disobedience has a consequence. Jesus will return for judgement.
The Batman oh and btw I have heard it before...nothing new
4:15-4:20 thank you. Secularist always complain about God not stopping evil but when he does they hate it. God Bless Frank
Indeed. As your god seems to choose to help a tiny minority who are in need through no fault of their own, yet ignores millions of starving innocent children. He allows kids born with bone cancer and AIDS, for example. Your god sounds truly awful.
It's obviously a strawman argument. One, the atheists don't "complain about God not stopping evil" because they don't believe there is a God on the first place. Two, it's not a question of hating it WHEN He does, but rather HOW He does. Any child could think of many more humane and loving and acceptable ways to stop evil behaviour than slaughtering those who perpetrate it.
@@joshuakohlmann9731 Yap, that's exactly right, even children can come up with better ways. "But god can do whatever he wants. He is god, the giver and taker of life!" Even if that is so, he does it very, very poorly ... Reminds me more of some infuriated war lord than an all-loving god.
This is interesting because he is not only addressing the most common atheist arguments I've encountered myself but he is giving the answers I gave, but got ridiculed by the people I was addressing.
Don't worry about that; they heard you!
And the Spirit might be working with it in their minds
Me too! Same experience.
Hey Frank Turek, I really enjoy you posting up Q&A’s because I’ve seen your presentation countless times. I love the Q&A’s bc it’s interesting, different, etc.
aaaaaaoooooooooooooooooooooooo
It is very helpful to us to help us defend our faith. It is a great thing we have wise teachers like him who we can look up to.
Wow 😯- that was the best explanation I’ve heard for something I’ve struggled to understand but just took on faith. Thank you for helping me with some reasons that made a lot of sense to me
It makes sense to you?
@@LordNinja109 bot
@@gangsterg1936 Ah yes, I'm a *beep boop* bot for calling out a bs excuse
@@LordNinja109 yes that’s why I used the phrase “it made a lot of sense to me” 😉
What part made sense? The part where God genocided people and we should be cool with it? Man, blind faith really leads to treachery, doesn't it?
Love to hear this explanation, praise The Lord
Excellent and fair question. Christians shouldn't shy away from such questions. Only God knows why.
Just got my sub... Great answers... Thank you Jesus...
Tyrone Layes Terrible answers, full of strawmen positions. Pathetic
Yes, great, logical and clear answers, indeed.
@@doubriewotsit4090 No strawman positions here; just truth you dont like to hear.
D White No truth here. Just rambling attempts to justify abhorrent doctrine
@@doubriewotsit4090 No God = No basis to judge doctrine on. Therefore you are wrong.
Even IF the Canaanites and Amalekites were the worst people imaginable, that doesn't justify killing the children that were still alive by the time the genocide began. It was commanded for babies to be ripped out of their mother's wombs and dashed upon the ground. How can that be justified? If God had wanted the children's souls returned to him, why did he choose to have them suffer a death by the sword? He's perfectly capable of rapturing people away without the need for a physical death. I seriously don't get why apologists can't answer this objection forthrightly. Frank tried but ultimately failed by my estimation.
i see a lot of haters eating salt on this one lol
This channel has nothing but supporters in the comment section just like The Atheist Experience.
@@JamesRichardWiley and i thought youtube is left wing and against segregation
@@JamesRichardWiley wrong
@@JamesRichardWiley you aren't clicking the 50+ reply comments then lol.
Would that be the salt from Lots wife
Frank's explanation have always been the best and most easiest to follow!
For some reason I thought the title said "immortal", watched the whole thing before I realized that was not the title. Lol.
Coz u knew what would the vid be about and therefore ur brain made up the wrong word right. Brain do godly things like that sometimes.
Great answers! I've been wrestling with these questions myself. Thank you so much!
God can do anything......you think that's a great answer....really glad you are not my next-door neighbour with that messed up morality
...i thought it was good apart from him saying that God is arbitary in justice, he just takes life if he feels like it..
he missed out the important fact that the Israelites were not allowed to go into the promised land until the sin of the amorites had reached its full measure Gen 15:16
he does not exist...only in the mind of simpletons
@@paulrichards6894 bot
@@gangsterg1936 i am a pro punter dont mention bots
The biggest struggle is that God doesn't stop the majority of evil.
God doesn't stop much of any evil, it seems. And also, God commands the evil.
God of old testament said, I bless and I curse, I do good and evil.. so there you go. Duality god.. Christ never once said to do evil, to kill, to murder people. He rebuked his disciples for wanting to cast fire down from the sky like Elijah, he said bless those who persecute you. It's said that blessing and cursing should be coming out of same mouth etc. The real problem is the fact that people don't read their Bible with an open mind.
@@HuxtableK no bro
@@Metanoia7-J No what. Use your words.
@@Metanoia7-J Nah brooo like whoaaa
Skibiddy
THIS IS THE BEST ARGUMENT I'VE HEARD REGARDING THIS TOPIC!!! 🙌🙌🙌 THANK YOU FRANK!! 🙏🙏🙏
Honestly it was terrible. He dances around the issue and lands on an answer that only brings up more issues.
A lot of SERIOUS evasions, going on, it would seem. And humans never seem to have fully CHOSEN how they are born, where they are born, or into what - or as what. So how is any full conscious 'rejecting' even going on...?
The god of the Old Testament promoted human sacrifice (see Leviticus 27:29 & Exodus 13:2) and slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46). Although he ordered them not to intermarry, he also allowed the Israelites to kidnap foreign women and force them to be their wives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14). He ordered a man to be killed just for picking up sticks on the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36). He even broke the second commandment when he had Moses create a graven image of a snake to cure people of their poison bites (Deuteronomy 21:8-9 & 2 Kings 18:4). This is NOT a God of morality.
@kobdash And keeping the virgins as sex slaves
Really!!!!?
This is a complete response to an awkward slogan that ignorant people keep harping about. I really, really loved the way Frank Turek handled it.
A scenario from the video itself:
"There's a young lady who asked a question and she said, 'I can't believe in a god that would do this kind of thing.'
And so I said, 'Can I ask you a question? Are you pro-abortion or pro-life?'
She said, 'Oh, I'm pro-abortion.'
I said, 'Let me ask you a question about that, Why is it that when God plays God in the Old Testament, when he chooses who lives and who dies, he's immoral? But when you play god here on earth and you decide who lives and who dies through abortion, that's a moral right?'"
I'm thinking by myself , since the beginning God always warned people to do the right things the way He wanted and we never never respected God advises we always do things the way we wanted , we can't blame God .
Guz there doesn't seem to need gawds anymore. Lol
If hes trying to justify the mass genocide of people by saying they were immoral, where was that energy when blacks were enslaved in the U.S? Where was God then?
HoodieDan he stopped interceding in human affairs when humanity separated from him.
David Vargas there was never a point in time when all humans were believers, thats a dumb excuse.
HoodieDan obviously not all humans but all of Israel did believe in God and time and time again they went against him which caused him to stop interceding. It doesn’t matter who he stops you won’t be able to serve him. Believe he exist sure but even the devil believes in God. The ancient Israelites saw the parting of the Red Sea, saw the plagues fall on Egypt, the walls of Jericho fall, heard Gods voice multiple times that it put fear in the people of Israel and still what did they do? They burned their children alive to these idols and killed the prophets of God. After interceding so much for the people of Israel through there battles they still turned against him. God could rain fire down from the sky to where the entire world sees but that will only make you believe in him not actually worship him
David Vargas Dont you think it was a waste of time then on Gods part, since hes supposedly all knowing he knew the outcome already. So if that’s true God Can’t be all knowing, or maybe you’re just wrong.
I get why people want to pose questions like these, but look, apologists will NEVER see this as a valid question. The Bible specifically prevents this line of questioning from being problematic by saying god won't interfere or be seen or heard etc after Jesus's death. It's a fail safe.
The moral perspective of the christian god is extremely subjective. It's just the opinion of one individual. Why even bother to call it a 'standard'? And what good is a 'moral standard' if it results in killing all babies on earth by drowning them? That's what happens if you put your trust in moral ideas of one extremely powerful entity who has a history of encouraging and condoning violence. At least people share their ideas about morality and try to learn from each other in order to come to some sort of intersubjective morality.
6:50 After he said, the whole room got like 90 times quieter 😂
I don't think those on the pro choice side see it as "a moral right". What Frank does a lot is create a strawman that he can tear down.
Deavon Reye they see it has a human right, which doesn’t change much.
@@nickwilson3499 It's actually about not having the government tell a woman what she is going to do with her body. So yeah, it would be a human right.
@Jack Of All Trades It's why it is such a hotly debated topic. Here's my viewpoint. No one should be made to "remain pregnant" if they don't want to be pregnant. It is a potentially dangerous situation to be in and each person should be able to decide what they do with their body.
Having said that, I completely think that anyone who doesn't want to have children should practice a LOT more self control and maturity. Double, triple contraceptives........or not have sex at all.
@Jack Of All Trades Well, that was a bit pessimistic, but I do wish humanity would grow past what so many are and mature to what we really should have been at today.
I wrote a fiction story [albeit, amateur] that has a lot to do with the lack luster progress of humanity. It probably won't ever get published, but it has been fun writing it.
My gosh, great answer. You are great man such a great motivation. Champion.
Well what do you think of my answer to his answer? Or at least one of them:
His whole “Atheists complain when God doesn’t step in to stop atrocities, but then also complain when he does step in” argument is still extremely problematic, because it shows that God is inconsistent. How were the Nazis any different from the awful group that he brought up? They two burned children alive, and enslaved, murdered, and tortured millions, so why was God inconsistent with his punishments? Why did he choose to let the Nazis slaughter his creations when he had put an end to that awful behavior before? And this also shows the holes in the “free will” argument. As humans do we, or do we not have free will? Because it certainly didn’t seem like we did back then; God was constantly interfering with our actions; causing floods, wiping out civilizations; spreading plagues, etc. But now what? The divine intervention just stopped. Did God just grow apathetic? Did he abandon us and label us as a lost cause? I’d like to see how the speaker would try to justify that.
You really need to reevaluate your morality and outlook on reality. If you look to this con man for how to be motivated, you're not going to turn out well.
@@spocksvulcanbrain Television shows have definitely made your morality and outlook on reality.
@@jeziscricket4448 I don't know what your point is or how that's relevant to the discussion. Everything we do and interact with from the day we are old enough to reason until the day we die has the potential to alter our morality and world view (including TV). So what?
Thank you. I just started reading my bible again and I got really frustrated reading the OT. This brings me back to God.
The old testament is gold.
Rape and slavery. Real facts, just read the Bible, God's rules condoned owning slaves and bashing them close to death if necessary and enslaving their wife and their offspring children Exodus 21.
Its was ok raping virgins and forcing the victim to marry the rapist also. Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Drunken incest was also ok, but an inocent quick look at something very interesting deserved instant death for no just reason by salt metamorphism, Lot and his daughters did the dirty deed. Genesis 19:26-38
Killing first borns and slaughtering and butchering thousands of Amalekite and many other racist wars. Flooding the earth killing women and children and unborn babies
which is equal to mass abortions. Now go read your Bible with your eyes wide open and your brains turned on.
Yes, slavery and killing are good when in God's name.
@@Dr-Curious Every immoral act is condoned if done in God's name. That's the problem with religions. It's what creates religious bigots, terrorists, supremacists, etc.
You have every right to be frustrated. The god of the Old Testament also promoted human sacrifice (see Leviticus 27:29 & Exodus 13:2) and slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46). Although he ordered them not to intermarry, he also allowed the Israelites to kidnap foreign women and force them to be their wives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14). He ordered a man to be killed just for picking up sticks on the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36). He even broke the second commandment when he had Moses create a graven image of a snake to cure people of their poison bites (Deuteronomy 21:8-9 & 2 Kings 18:4). In your heart you know this is NOT the work of a good, moral God.
dude you know your stuff. There is so much more. christendumb2 has a 200 hour series that how I learned so much
Well explained Frank... God bless you brother.
It’s funny how many trolls and Atheists commented on this. If God doesn’t exist, why do you get so triggered?! Haha!!!
Because ur religion directly causes harm to non believers and believers alike
Broto theWilliams how?
+@UCENx5TJ35WUAT7BHPqOBccA
Why do believers run from backing up their claims when challenged .....is the better question.
Rick Smith you’re literally on a video from a Christian apologist who’s job is doing the exact opposite. You tried though
@@brotothewilliams9890 This is not true at all. Even Bill Maher, famous atheist talk show host, admits that Christians don't live in this way. That atheist would refute you even.
But if we look at history, atheism has caused more bloodshed, atrocities, and hate crimes world wide. In fact, more murder came from atheistic communistic regimes in the 20th century than at any other time in recorded history.
You can thank mother Russia, China, Cuba, and so forth.
It would be even more fair for me to say that atheism directly leads to the murder of innocent life.
Yahweh is love and he is merciful he is always with me because I obey him. I pray for a little kids I see them get healed from asthma and all kinds of diseases all glory to Yahweh
nah its a just a way to keep you docile and ignorant. god knows everything, you know nothing ! shut up and pray.
The one thing I have trouble with is why God allows an individual child to be murdered. Like when they get abducted by a monster. Why doesn't God supernaturally intervene.
He would be intervening in the free will of the kidnapper
@@methatis3013there is no free will, hence all religions are false.
Morality comes from Humanity. Not God.
Yeah, God stepped in to stop child sacrifice, the same god who sacrificed his own child, who begged his father not to do it.
You mean Jesus who was divine a pre creation principal.
@@Metanoia7-JWhat?
Dr Turek.... I'm sorta new to the channel, not your ideas. But more and more, I think you're the real deal when it comes to a messenger of God. As a self admitted ex-Christian, sir... your making some headway with me, but it still doesn't change my opinions on the church. If men witnessed like this to me in person with my questions, maybe I would've never turned my back.
Praying for you ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
It’s never to late to turn back
Magnificent presentation! Loved every minute of it!
I am a Muslim and I love this channel because of its amazing videos ❤
Hope you come to know the Lord Jesus ❤
@@deepeetut Amen❤
Very informed and evidence-based response to a very good question.
Every atheist needs to watch this. He dissected the question to the core. This is the best answer to this question I have ever heard.
As an agnostic, I still expect, a, ah, good deal MORE, though...
@@chrissonofpear1384 Hey. The evidence before you is enough. If you want more, you might die without getting more. Billy Graham once said "God has made the way of salvation so plain that 'the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein'" from Isaiah 35:8.
The evidence is before you. More of something is not what makes it valid. You need to step out of yourself (I mean your ideological cocoon) and examine everything that has been said with a fresh eye and an open mind. You'll find it very compelling.
@@chrissonofpear1384 Jesus said in Luke 7:31-35 , "To what then shall I liken the men of this generation, and what are they like? They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling to one another, saying: 'We played the flute for you, And you did not dance; We mourned to you, And you did not weep.' For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' But wisdom is justified by all her children."
@@euniceaber6867 And I'm sure various Spanish Jews could easily reflect upon this, without fear of torture, imprisonment, or general persecution, by various people riled up by blood libel claims and other hasty rumours, about them? Or Africans who sometimes got Leviticus 25:46 or the Curse of Ham quoted at them, in support for some chaining them up? Or assorted people slaughtered on August 24th, 1572, to supposed acclaim of the then Pope?
Also, were previous gay people often summarily put to death; was there always a... cure, for them, only being explored now; and to what extent can they even choose their desires, if Satan can subvert parts of nature? Also, regards 1 Corinthians 2:14, again?
@@euniceaber6867 Ideological? I thought I was asking you about various forms of that? Legalism, too - and why Satan was owed any access? I'm well aware ideologies can lead to sectarian slaughters, thanks (and regretfully, did indeed occur, in the past, often)
He does a great job at distracting from the main argument.
Very true. He at no point addresses the actual issue at hand. Instead he does moral gymnastics to get around the foundation of the question and then plays a sort of “whataboutism” as if atheists would be the only moral people who would have objections to the Old Testament’s atrocities.
Lol, "Let me explain when it's ok to commit genocide, and evil things that happen to people doesn't need to be stopped because eventually we all live together in paradise."
@@fedbia2003 boom
The guy asking seemed earnest and genuine and Dr Turek handled it with love. Well done.
When people say they're angry at God for wiping people out, they're not actually angry at God but a strange idea of him. How can you reconcile HE is the creator of all things, ultimate judge and has promised a life after death....and then be angry at him killing people 'for no good reason'?
It's looking for an excuse to be angry and reject God. Not in this fellow's case it seems, but online there is often a vitriol and ignorance combined that results in those kind of incoherent stances.
"If God existed, I'd hate him and spit in his face" kind of attitude that's absolutely ridiculous. False bravado and virtue signaling.
Some people think if a guy started a fight, they'd knock him out in one punch. Others might think if a mob attacked them, they'd swiftly dispatch the entire mob. Others still think in a zombie apocalypse, they'd be some kind of hero, just plain better than everyone else.
But then you have people who think they would be exposed to the creator of the universe, of life, and death, justice and separation. And...spit in his face. Because he doesn't meet THEIR (inconsistent) standards of morality.
Probably watching too much anime.
Well...
1. Do you interpret that "wrote his law on your heart" verse to mean that your feelings are an accurate judge of objective morality?
2. Do you feel it's good if Bob drowns Fred to death without warning because Bob disagrees with Fred's actions?
3. If we confirm Bob's reason for disliking Fred's actions is really good, would _that_ make Bob's drowning good?
A lot of non-belief is the result of simply reading the Bible carefully and paying attention to what it actually says (which includes self-contradictions like the ones I just described -- unless you weirdly think it was good for Bob to drown Fred, I guess.
Another huge source of non-belief is we just don't know gods exist. Knowledge requires evidence, and we don't have strong, logical evidence of a god. In fact when theists _try_ providing evidence, it's always illogical stuff. For example Frank often cites the Moral Argument which is just two back-to-back claims without evidence (that (A) objective moral values exist and (B) if they exist they must indicate a god); well non-evidenced claims are a type of logical error called a "baseless assertion".
I mention these two big ones because "angry at god" represents almost no non-believers. It's honestly pretty weird, right? I mean sure people _can_ be angry at the fictional King Joffrey from Game of Thrones (you know, that jerk teenager king?), but usually they aren't because they don't actually believe Joffrey exists. Well non-believers don't believe gods exist, so being angry at them is pretty silly. It can happen, it's just silly.
He never answered the question. Is god moral to encourage genocide? Also, the 400 years question is interesting. If god is eternal why does he let 400 years of atrocities happen before finally intervening? He is infinite. Why wait?
God is more merciful than we can comprehend. God in his foreknowledge knows what would have happened if he let these people live. Gods character of love, just, holy still applies at all times.
@@keithbirdwellif he knows what would happen why let it go on for 400 years. You're delusional
@@quatlyquatly8128 called the mercy of God. God is long suffering and not wanting anyone to perish. Pretty merciful considering the wicked are judged to an eternity to hell forever. God gives plenty of time to repent.
@@keithbirdwell you are nuts. God of Old Testament is evil being. The true God is love and lack of fear, everything else is delusional.
@@quatlyquatly8128 sorry you feel that way.
These people will look for any reason to justify the atrocities, even if it is so out of whack...!!!!!
An army fighting against a nation of savages that sacrifice baby's to an ancient lava god named molac.
Why haven't I read the bible yet?
if you think thats weird, just wait until you read about the guy who has super strength for as long as he doesnt cut his hair
Good luck slogging your way through that snoozer. I can recommend it as a cure for insomnia, a door stop, and toilet paper but not much more than that.
God of Engineering I guess.
@@doktormcnasty you mean darwins book?
@@InitialPC I prefer the other one, also related to hair, when some kids made fun of a bald guy and God sends some bears to kill them.
Dude we need more videos like this.
If every time God kills it is moral because he is God, how can we possibly look to him as a guide to what our morality should be? How do we distinguish between what is moral for him, but immoral for us?
Hola aunque mi respuesta esté en español, creo que puedes traducirlo y espero sirva de algo ❤.
En primer lugar, debemos entender que Dios es el único que puede dar vida o quitarla.
En segundo, la única forma en la que podremos diferenciar lo que es moralmente correcto para Dios (o lo que le agrada) es a tráves de leer su palabra, la cual nos muestra ejemplos de como debemos vivir y poco a poco nos va revelando que cosas no son buenas, no solo porque entendemos por nuestro propio juicio que son malas sino porque entendemos que Dios las ve así. Ejemplo: No codiciarás, no mentirás, no robarás, no matarás...
I'm so glad that I'm awake from all religion's. Especially christianity.
Wow this is absolutely amazing, I don't know how I've just now find this video after 4 years of its existence, I didn't think it was possible to fit so many flawed arguments, misrepresented opposing arguments, and down right ignorant statements into one video but this man has proven me wrong, I salute you good sir.
bot
Pathetic ad hominem attacks.
@kingofthemultiverse4148 Hey, I'd almost forgotten this comment existed. I'll be honest, there's no need for me to refute any of this because there are plenty of videos made by people much smarter than me that have already done so. Me using ad-hominem isn't an attack. It's just me not wasting time in defuncting an already defunct argument while still bringing attention to the fact that it's a defunct argument.
Wow...He answers questions soo rightly...
Well I have some of my own answers for his answers:
His whole “Atheists complain when God doesn’t step in to stop atrocities, but then also complain when he does step in” argument is still extremely problematic, because it shows that God is inconsistent. How were the Nazis any different from the awful group that he brought up? They two burned children alive, and enslaved, murdered, and tortured millions, so why was God inconsistent with his punishments? Why did he choose to let the Nazis slaughter his creations when he had put an end to that awful behavior before? And this also shows the holes in the “free will” argument. As humans do we, or do we not have free will? Because it certainly didn’t seem like we did back then; God was constantly interfering with our actions; causing floods, wiping out civilizations; spreading plagues, etc. But now what? The divine intervention just stopped. Did God just grow apathetic? Did he abandon us and label us as a lost cause? I’d like to see how the speaker would try to justify that.
Holy cow! If morals come from god, and the bible is an accurate description of his deeds, I DO NOT want to be Christian.
Yeah, the fact that this dr Frank is seriously thinking these arguments are sound is wild to me
@@Alex-mm7tb me too
Bc u feel like you shouldn't be told what is right or wrong? You don't even know what is right or wrong. A person born in the hood would think killing the person who killed their brother is moral. When in reality it's not. God said let your revenge be mine (unless he anointed you to) for a reason. You lose yourself in hatred and eventually end up fulfilling a self fulfilling prophecy. God doesn't tell us things to do just bc he wants things a certain way, he does it to save us from ourselves. Bc that's your worse enemy at the end of the day.
@@oasisflame in your opinion, what's "right" and what's "wrong"?
@@oasisflame right and wrong are subjunctive and based on nurture. If there were objective morals then it would be based on the savageness of nature. Which as we all know can be quite cruel
When Frank Turek says ‘atheists think..’ or ‘Atheists say...’ does not talk for any of the atheists I know including me.
Fax
yep
Because Atheism is based on lies.
God stepped in to stop the killing by killing.
Derek Biggerstaff This is one problem I have, the whole argument was based on “god is good because he said he’s good”
Or the ignorant old men who wrote the book said he was
What would you have done differently? God waited 400 years, but their actions got worse and worse to the point where there was no going back. Child sacrifice was just one of many atrocities. Others included incest, bestiality, temple prostitution and gang sexual assault and more. Sources can be found outside the Bible.
@@sinbad5117 Is sacrificing your child good?
@@Hospitaller1099 what?
The problem is people want to be God instead of loving him within full submission & faith .
A tip to you guys is to write this down it’s easier to memorize it then, God bless :) 🙏💥
I'm a Christian and I was struggling with this concept. Obviously I need to study more. Lol
Keep one thing in mind: God is almighty, all knowing and righteous. What you don't understand about him now, you might learn tomorrow. Trust him, and don't let the father of lies destroy your trust in God.
If the enemy could talk angels into hating God, who are we yo try to argue with him...?
Read the word, and stay close to Him.
I pastored for 10 years and have advanced theological degrees, and I struggle with it
Speaking as an atheist:
1. We do have a standard to judge God's actions off of. Our standard is based off of causing as little unnecessary harm as absolutely possible, especially to the innocent. Where justice is needed, it must be brought against the specific people who were responsible for the evil committed, not indiscriminately against all people of the nation which committed the evil including women and children who had nothing to do with it. You seem to imply this sort of standard gives Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs a pass, but this isn't true at all. These people dehumanised their enemies to justify genocide against them even though they were innocent and they didn't even spare infants who couldn't possibly be considered guilty. We do NOT condone the actions of these men. The same way we don't condone the actions of Yahweh as his actions are very similar.
The God of the Bible commits evil on massive scales wiping out entire nations, not even sparing infants. I don't understand how Christians can say these solutions were all the best ones possible.
God orders the slaughter of all Midianites, except the virgins who he orders the men to take and split between them as spoils of war (Numbers 31).
The whole Egyptian plagues situation which culminated in the slaughter of all of Egypt's firstborns was caused by God hardening Pharoah's heart so he would not let the people go so he would have justification for his atrocities (Exodus 7:3). The text implies had God not done this, Pharoah would have let the people go without it having to come to this.
And just read Isiah 13:15-18, imagine being one of those children, seeing your mother raped and murdered and being killed yourself.
There are countless examples of these. Seriously, read the OT for yourself. The fastest way to become an atheist is to read the Bible.
2. On child sacrifice:
If God proved his existence and the nonexistence of gods such as Molek, none of these things would happen. This argument also only permits killing those who condoned the practise, not the infants.
3. On claiming it was hyperbolic language:
Numbers 31 disagrees with you, it gives very clear instructions to kill all the little ones and take the virgin girls "for yourselves" and if the Bible is the truth it should contain no exaggeration.
4. On claiming God can take life if he wants:
Even if he gave these people life, he has no more right to take it than parents have to kill their children and he is still responsible for the suffering he causes. This argument would be more believable if the Bible said things like "He took the captured up to the Heavens to be judged", but the suffering is still on his hands. If your ideology is making you say it's okay for anyone even a God, to kill whoever he wants, you should take a good look back and consider just how dangerous your beliefs may be.
5. On your point on abortion:
Not all atheists are pro-choice. Secular arguments for abortion law are just more complicated than just "God said it so it's right". You raise a good point: Why should the parent be allowed to kill their children? You can argue for pro-life without appealing to Christianity.
@Mark Mildenberger OMG!!! Just listen to yourself. You're arguing one mythical creature against a mythical god to determine real world morality???? You're friggin insane!!!
What about judging God off his own standard
As FT says, for a world that has killed almost 40 million babies this year, and many in 'first' world countries, griping about the Canaanites is pretty hollow.
You brought up some excellent points in the end about abortion. Abortion is a huge sin in this world that we need all the ammunition we can to fight
I am a pro life non religious deist
I haven’t studied the Bible enough to know whether and how much of it is true or meant to be taken literally or figuratively etc.
Go further with your study then dude :) It gets better.
whoop whoop hey NIKKKKKI you muffin humping crap stacker. Leave My friend maxstone9999 alone he has answered your stupid question and you, being the worshipper of of time traveling, farting, dodgy curry seeking cats whom you believe created the universe. You need to go back to your comments where you say that the big bang did not create anything... then you say that it created everything, then you say that it had to achieve escape velocity to happen, then you claim to no scientist claims that the universe did not create itself, then, when presented with hawking's quote of the universe creating itself as a result of a law such as gravity you say its quote mining LOLOLOLOLOLOL Then you claim that you have time traveling farting cat that in its trip back into the past to get a bowl of dodgy curry created the universe and maintain that that is plausible... then you spew off into how your wife understands the "BIG BANG"
God aborts far more fetuses in the form of miscarriages than people to the tune of 10 to 1.
I don't know, man, I still can't get past all the horrid stuff in the Bible. I want to be religious but I just can't ignore it. The answers in this seem a bit strung out
just reading other comments is kind of proving my point XD
Yeah
the bible has nothing to do with true religion. There is no God. True religion is your own relation with the universe. If human were awake and not retarded like 90% are there would be as many religions as there are people. The bible is evil and brainwashes people using fear of hell.
I can't get past the reality that most of the ideas and stories in the Bible existed in other religions before hand, making most of it look like it was plagerized, the Jewish Torah (basis for the old testament) is actually a fairly new religion relatively speaking, there are religions much older than Judaism which lead to christianity . Anyway, it makes the Bible look like it probably was just a reworking of earlier religions. The Muslims did this. A guy just took the Bible and then did some reworking by adding a few things and now millions follow that religion. We see countless examples of this happening, so it's not outlandish at all to be skeptical of the Bible's historical evolution as well.
@@tonyhogg9839 I was thinking that too, honestly. And honestly it just adds to the "I can't even pretend to like it" factor.
Religion (in my life) is about structure and ritual. I love religions that have structures and rituals! I like the community! But when the source material is like this - man, I can't even look at it
In the book Job 2:3, the Lord said: “..., to destroy him without cause”. It refers to destroy Job but Job actually was not killed. The same word “destroy” is used in Deuteronomy 7:2 NKJV. So the Lord did not mean to kill children just like the speaker says. From the above verse, we can see that the Lord is reasonable even in our eyes.
Yea.. actually the Hebrew word for destroy as mentioned תַּחֲרִים֙ is often accompanied with the meaning "defeat" or "ruin."
Still, what happened to Job was highly immoral too, Job was faithful and never sinned, yet he lost everything but his life (which he nearly lost as well due to his sickness). All this to prove a point to Satan? This definitely proves to me that the biblical God is not a perfect being, nor all powerful.
random comment made 10 months ago, leave me alone!!!
Stan S Yes, there is an adversary that accuses against us everyday in the heavenly courtroom. If God did not show this to us, at the judgement day, people would say why you did not tell us about it so we could have accepted the Lord Jesus as our Saviour on earth and as our advocate in front of God. The book of Job and the whole Holly Bible revealed this to us for our benefits. If you are not a Christian, please read the Bible a few times to know God’s salvation.
Antek, God creates the human race with a free will. Adam and Eve messed up at the very beginning, not God. You have your free will not to believe in Jesus, but God’s will is to have every person being saved. That is why that God sent His only be-gotten son Jesus to us, who was died on the cross for our sins. You will have the eternal life once you accept Him as your Lord and Savior.
I love how apologists will say "anybody who isn't Christian has no objective morality" when moral standards have existed longer than Yahweh, Judaism, or Christianity. I also think it's hilarious that they will prop up god as this unchanging moral compass and yet he operates on completely different moral standards depending on the timeline and writer of the book describing his acts. Even more, I love that any comment pointing out anything wrong with the arguments presented here is promptly deleted because the author knows that his bs can't stand up to logical criticism. But keep gobbling up that mana, sheep, it'll keep your hard earned dollars going into the coffers of corrupt and morally bankrupt churches.
"He gives life, he can take it away." I'd like to see you apply the same logic to your own children. And on the note that Atheists state that God doesn't stop evil then complain when he does, I would argue that the manner in which he stops it is what is worthy of complaint as well as ridicule. I mean really think about it for a moment. The ALL POWERFUL God of the universe that also infinitely loves couldn't have thought of a better way to turn the people from their ways? To stop the evil that was happening? No one can put any real serious thought combining those two concepts and NOT come up with a better solution to stop people from murder, child sacrifice, rape, etc. Here's an alternative: Why doesn't God come down in a form that won't consume everyone (he does it many years later in the form of Jesus) and draw the whole city to himself and speak to them and tell them or do for them what he knows will convince them of his goodness, divinity, love, and power? He's omnipotent. He can do that without taking away free will. How? He's OMNIPOTENT. Another option is for him to speak to every one of them individually whether in person or in their heads and convince them that there's a better way, lay it all out for them, show them the error of their ways. Or, at the very least, instead of burning them all to death he could have just thought them out of existence. But no, God, in his limitless power and love says, "I think the best solution is for them to be burned alive in terror and agony."
Hey Kristian, I have a couple of thoughts/questions.
First, you begged the question (paraphrasing) "Why doesn't God reveal himself to everyone and show him what good/evil is and tell them to stop?" You interjected that Jesus did this once. My question is that if God (Jesus) did this once and many at the time did not believe, and many still don't believe today, what makes you believe that they would believe if he did it again?
Second, if God truly is all powerful, all knowing, and good, then He can do whatever he wants the way He wants and still be "good." How can we argue the morality of God if He is the standard of morality?
@@FaithDoctrine First question - God did actually show himself to Saul in a way that forced him to believe. He became Paul and wrote most of the new testament as a result.
2. Goodness is described by Jesus. Scripture describes the fruits of the spirit as love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, self control, etc... Jesus states numerous times that his nature is that of the Father. Jesus said it would be better for someone to die than to harm the innocent children. The person of Jesus is very much at odds with someone who commands the killing of children. Wouldnt you say that a character trait of God to stay consistent?
@@justindavis2711 I would point out a couple of things from context with what you're saying there. 1) Saul could have still chosen to reject what the vision was clearly showing him. He wasn't forced but simply turned from what he was doing, and we know from many characters in the Bible that this was definitely not always the case, as with Balaam who straight up just argues with a speaking donkey like that's normal and justifies himself and his actions.
2) Jesus' comment in regards to innocent children is in regards to leading them astray towards the wrong path, not literal, physical harm to them. Many times Jesus makes it clear that the spiritual condition is of infinitely more importance to God than the temporal, physical condition which may or may not be uncomfortable at times. The OP also seemed to suggest that the Canaanites would have turned away from their ways of God showed up as Jesus did, and yet Jesus did actually show up and most people didn't change either in complacency or willful ignorance or rebellion against God. With free will, it is always possible to stick to self righteousness rather than submit to God.
@@dl5641 1.) A speaking donkey is in no way comparable to the transfigured manifestation of the living God. He did not experience a vision - he experienced God himself. It affected him so much he went blind. After having an experience like that, he would have to be mentally disabled to not believe it - in which case I'd argue that it wouldnt even be a choice because it would be caused by a disability, not rebellion. To say there was a choice involved is like saying there is a choice to leave your hand on a burning hot-pan. We have instincts and a rational mind that force us to accept things, and if we don't, we are considered to be mentally damaged - not rebellious. To say otherwise is to say that God lacks the ability to convince people of his own existence, which is a little bit silly. He can easily take someone and show them entirety of his creation, eternity, and fix their brain so that they can think rationally enough to accept his truth if he wanted. He is a limitless God, and we should not put him in a box.
2.) I accept that the specific scripture regarding Luke 17:2 as referencing the spiritual harm of children. However, there are still numerous scriptures contradicting the idea that God supports murder of innocent children, and wants us to care for them. Here is only a sinlge example:
James 1:27
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."
Are you truly arguing that God would think it good and rightious to slit the throat of a child than to adopt them and raise them in the faith? Even when scripture literally says that God our Father wants us to care for orphans?
I'll restate my position more clearly for you to understand it. Goodness is defined by Jesus. The Father is defined by Jesus. He said this numerous times. The Old Testament is written by those who did not have a full picture of the nature of God. This is why the Pharisees constantly disagreed with Jesus. Its also why Ecclesiastes virtually condradicts the entire gospel. Not all scriptures are to be taken literally, and we are supposed to view the Old Testament through the lense of Christ - not view Christ through the lens of the Old Testament. If you do that, you end up contradicting yourself on a constant basis. But if you use the correct lens, everything makes 1000x more sense.
You'd like to see the same logic applied to children? You're clueless as f...
Frank addressed that directly in this very video that you watched. It's called Abortion and over 60 million lives have been taken, for nearly half a century.
That kid was right that why he stoped him from talking
I think my favorite part of the position of moral absolutes is this argument:
Common Christian: Atheists don't have a moral standard to judge actions. Their objections come from their own SUBJECTIVE opinions. We as Christian's have an OBJECTIVE moral standard which comes from God's SUBJECTIVE opinion. . . Wait. I'm going to need a minute to rethink my argument.
God is not immoral but the man made character Yahweh is
At the end of the day they always resort to "God gives life so he can take it" because they really can't justify his actions on a moral level.
I understand that feeling but I think If you were omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent you would know that a higher being can see things you don’t see and the best way to rephrase the sentence imo would be to “God cannot kill *unjustly* and be called a moral being”.
A sharp and powerful answer as usual. Anyone able to do this is in no doubt must have the guidance of the moral standards came from the Christ consciousness resides within him.
Keep up the good work folks... 👍
@Nick Jones
Then can you please respectfully give us a counter argument without calling us names.
"Moral standards" that support the murder of babies.
Remember if God does, it’s OK.
Nick Gagnon how about if a tsunami does it?
@Ethan God doesn't have anyone to give him rights. Just because you made someone, does not mean you are morally right to murder them after.
@Ethan I don't have to do anything if my creation tries to overthrow me, since I am omnipotent (if I am God), and can defeat the uprising with nothing more than a snap of the fingers. I wouldn't need to destroy anyone in the process, and if I can't handle it without killing, then I am not God, since there is something I cannot do.
And if you want to justify an atrocity, just say God told you to do it. Thousands of years later people will be twisting themselves into knots trying to excuse God rather than realize ancient Israel had some evil leaders. What a monster Frank believes God to be!
Speedzone Speedforce Maybe you are right, but when the mafia shows up at your door to forcibly evict you, who are you going to blame? The mafia boss or the hit men?
For heaven sake. How many of you people do not realize that you would have believed just as fervently in Apollo had you been born in the right time and place? Take a half a step back and actually think!
Not to mention the Greek and Roman gods are much cooler than the that Yahweh loser.
@@javeydones5163 seriously, wayyyyyy cooler!
If God could change hearts (think God hardening the Pharoah's heart) then couldn't he have done the opposite to the Canaanites to stop all the evil they were commiting? Isn't it a little extreme to annihilate them?
The word of God also says “the goodness of God leads you to repentance.”
If people hate His goodness they cannot change.
Aside from judging the canaanites God also wanted to prevent the Israelites from practicing their evil ways. So for that cause they were slaughtered. If the Israelites were corrupted in all their generations Jesus Christ could not be born through a Holy seed.
God is an epic failure in everything he planned did or thought. The Bible is a how-to book on genocide and a chronicle if all his failings. As a supreme being he could have gotten it right from the beginning, but had to constantly cleanse and start over. Must be a pretty dumbass God. I could have planned and performed better with his powers.
@@spocksvulcanbrain You really are dumb Kirk hahaha
@@daviddpful Calling me names doesn't change the long list of God's failures.
Thus is what believers do. When confronted with uncomfortable or unsupportable facts, they attack the messenger rather than address the points presented. That says what you need to know.
@@spocksvulcanbrain Who says I'm calling you names the truth of the matter is that you are dumb because is that what you are and to tell you the truth it doesn't matter if you point God failures or you don't believe in him at the end even if I explain to you these topics you still will be in denial and it will be a waste of time just like you came here to see this video explaining these topics, so saved it.
Awesome explanations many confirm my own thoughts on it, I hadn't heard the abortion argument though excellent, another curiosity is people rarely call out those situations where the Jews or Israelites came under judgement, but only when other cultures faced consequences do the fingers point at God.
true! I like that you pointed that out
Romans 6:23
*For the wages of sin is death;* but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
YOU WILL DIE IF YOU SIN, THEREFORE GOD CAN END YOU!
Massa: So, the little babies and children in the so-called flood were sinners and, therefore, would go to hell if not saved?
@@anonymousjohnson976
No because they don't know from right and wrong. "And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad" Deut 1:39
Heaven belongs to children; innocent beings. “Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these” Mt 19:14-15
Massa: So, exactly when are these little children eligible for the hell you believe in?
@@anonymousjohnson976
Read the first part of my comment, it answers itself.
Massa: So, when they know "right from wrong" they are eligible for hell?
The problem with most of these atheistic questions is they are applying THEIR perspective of morality, which is all over the place.
Example:
"GENOCIDE = BAD"
Yet genocide of babies = Good👍
Call me crazy but the God of the Old Testament was definitely NOT forgiving, ethical, or All-Good. And this is judging God by God's own standards.
Gorgiving: he literally gave the other nations many many years to repent of their atrocities they did ,killing babies for their gods, etc.. . It is mentioned that when isrealites were crossing one of those nations(i forgot it's name) he told them leave them alone cis there time hasn't come yet , showing that he still is showing mercy on them to stop their bad ways , but they didn't.
Ethical: what exactly did he do that was unethical?
All good: wellll... he is but if ur perspective of what is gd differs than his then y should check whether what we humans consider good is really gd .
@@jossiahnajjar7397why did he do so much to save jewish ppl but allowed all other people to die in the flood?
All I see in the comments is atheists saying how foolish Frank sounds but don’t have anything to say about all the points he made and how he absolutely owned the guy ‘s questions. Kinda like when a child knows he’s wrong but continues to pout and display frustration with no explanation. Ahhh I love Frank
Not sure how youtube sent me here, but I had trouble accepting any of the arguments put forth by this presentation.
1. The atrocity point. The argument is basically God gave us morality so it is only through that gift we can judge others to be right or wrong. This argument makes no sense because for it to contradict you must accept the first premise that only God can give morality. If morality(as we understand it, not perfect or objective) has a natural means of occurring then there is an explanation for how we can judge others and also judge the actions of gods. If this argument is true, God is the source of morality but he only revealed himself to one set of people, and then judged everyone whom he did not reveal himself too, for not following in his commands.
2. The God that the Bible describes is a tribal and angry god. He gives descriptions for terrible acts, yet is unaware or blind to the terrible acts he is forcing others to commit. If the Canaanites were such terrible people, why did he not exterminate them himself and absolve the people of Moses from having to commit genocide. Why did an all powerful being who has the ability to do anything task a set of people with exterminating their own kind? Would the all loving and caring God of the new testament be so barbaric and hateful, if he is a timeless all knowing being?
3. Sending people to slaughter another set of people is hardly "stopping evil" in fact its directly commanding evil to be done. How can a god command such terrible acts and pretend that he is still a good and loving god? It does not matter that the Canaanites were burning babies alive, killing them is not righteous or just. God who created man should be responsible for man's actions. If they are acting outside his code of ethics, he should be the one to swing the sword.
4. If you begin something, you are responsible for it. You are also responsible for how you decide to govern and treat all the life that you began. If you take a life without the consent of the living creature, then you have stolen the life away. When you give someone a gift, it is no longer your property. You can be concerned and want the best for it, but you cannot take it back and do with it as you please, it is no longer yours. Does an all knowing being create a universe where you will exist and make decisions, then punishes you making the decisions he knew you would make sound like a just and fair god?
5. God does not have the right to manipulate life whoever it may see fit. See the previous point. If God has to shuffle people around as a way of micromanaging it also shows that he is not omniscient since he must constantly course correct, where as a being with actual omniscience would have known the end before even beginning. Also the fact that some people can be shifted into plane of existence that consists only of pain and sadness for all eternity just does not seem fair.
Saying God is a moral monster only validates what the Bible say about the atheists.
Psalm 14:1
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good."
shout out to @nickj14711 always lurking in the comments just waiting to spread hate to all Christians under every Frank Turek video
I wish you the best dude, I hope one day you can see past your pride
nickj14711
I do see what you’re doing as spreading hate because you’re obviously not trying to grow from any of the arguments you’re starting with people. You’re talking down to everyone as if you already have all of the answers, and all Christians are blind sheep. I can’t remember what thread it was, but you even said you were “winning” all of these arguments, and you “haven’t lost one yet.” You’re obviously not trying to grow and learn from these conversations if you see it as winning or losing a competition. You just seem angry at Christianity.
No one on here is threatening anyone with hell. We’re told to live like Jesus, and He never did that. I honestly hate seeing street preachers shout at people and act like they’re better than everyone, so I’m sorry that you haven’t had good experiences with Christians. We can talk about homosexuality later if you want. Talk, not you talk down to me like you do to everyone.
Frank doesn’t spread hate at all? I can’t name one time he’s threatened anyone?
I hope you see my point here. You’re talking to everyone on here like they’re Hitler, but we’re just normal people who have genuine reasons for our beliefs, like I’m sure you do.
Brilliant explanation🙏
Not.
@@kimbanton4398 Perhaps you should think twice before passing judgement on another person. A bad answer is still a bad answer.
This argument is SO poor. Divine command theory has been proven time and time again to be just as shoddy as the bible itself lol
How so? Would love a fuller explanation.
@@jericawilson1484 Totally! Well, divine command theory claims that right and wrong is connected to god's will. It also claims that religion and morality are synonymous which is not the reality of human development. Morality developed before religion.There are many objections to DCT such as factions within single religions, the problem of evil (why does it even exist if there is an omnipotent god?) and contradictory commandments, just to name a few, However the biggest issue DCT raises is what really makes it crumble. It's known as the Euthyphro Dilemma found in Plato's Euthyphro. Socrates asks in the play, "Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?" This raises two points - The fist being that piousness or *virtue* exists independent of God, therefore god cant be omnipotent because there is a standard that transcends god. The second part of the dichotomy is the idea that holiness or *ethics* are not independent of god and therefore the only standard of virtue is whatever god says. Therefore if god commanded everyone to say, take their son on a gloomy walk up a hill to sacrifice him or to kill a whole group of people and rape their daughters, those actions would be considered moral in the eyes of those who claim the second. And that is blatantly not true. God doesn't exist - especially the abrahamic one.
@@JeremiahTatola Religion isn't God. God is good. God is love. Love is moral. God created us. His morality must be ours. I mean look at the world now.
Oasis Flame that doesn’t make sense considering the world now is so much better and more knowledgeable than when people in the Middle East were following this book when it was first written. Of course your god is your religion, otherwise, you wouldn’t even know about them
@@oasisflame And what did God want religion to stand for, represent, say about him, or control or govern, also? Is He active, passive, or what, about such issues?
It’s fascinating to me, the difficulty of people to publicly frame a concise question. Inevitably, they ramble, mutter, and fill the air with sounds as if they’ve lost control of their mind. No wonder relationships fail more often than they succeed.
well, I'm afraid public speaking is just really difficult if you haven't done it before. I'm sure that young man will get better at framing his questions the more he practices
God being omnipotent and all knowing outside the confines of time that he created the entire concept of, created us knowing all these things would happen?
He doesn’t control what we do, he gave us free will. So just because he knows all things are going to happen doesn’t mean he should change every little thing because then we would not have free will. Instead he intervenes when he sees fit
6:03 "People never die. They just change locations."
Sounds like the lie that the serpent told Eve. "Thou shalt not surely die."
Didn't God say that if they were to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that they would die? Christianity never taught immortality of the soul until Roman Catholicism introduced it.
I heard once that the only character in the Bible who always wanted to tell the truth was the snake. It is... sketchy that god being god punished Eve for something he knew she would do. The snake wanted her to see reality and not play god’s game. I find this interesting.
@@rafaelrivera364 have you ever read the Book of Judas? It kind of elaborates on that idea. It's really fascinating and if you haven't, I very much recommend it!
@Ellyven Do you know the verses?
@@rafaelrivera364 just go read it, bible dot com is there and the app is there. You can even press a play button and have it read out loud if ur feeling busy or lazy but cherry picking and versus isnt as good as reading all the meat
@@rafaelrivera364 "god's game"
What game? You forget that God is greater than all of us humans, and it is righteous for us to obey Him as our creator. He loved us by creating us, therefore we should love Him back by giving our lives to Him because it is good.
In fact, God is so good that He offered Himself upon a cross to die for us, to save us from all our sins, so that we may LIVE forever in heaven with Him. That's what God meant when He said that they would die. They would become fallen, and they would lose their innocence.
If you question why God would do all of this even though He knew everything, it's because He wanted us to freely choose Him. We can't genuinely love God if we are all mindless robots on auto-pilot.
Completely and beautifully explained!
Suffering exists independent of morality. Causing mass suffering for the reason of “I’m God I made morality” is sickening even if the term “sickening” is subjective.
Wow! Excellent answer! Just looking at these videos it's clear yet again that man has traded God in exchange of themselves as god, in defining good and evil for themselves and they actually decided that God is evil. Gofigure!
Hmm...This reminds me of these words "Did God actually say you shall not eat of any the tree in the garden?..."you won't surely die, God knows when you eat of the tree you will be as gods knowing both good and evil."
And ever since that choice, the results have been confusion and death and every evil, including the self righteous nicety of the notion of peace without God. The rippling effects are evidently seen to this very day, so proving the truth of the Genesis account. People, the devil lied, sin held the promise of liberty, yet has only enslaved man and insulated him in aurguments through a dark concious that's now against God. And since that first doubt of God (which was originally external, but now is internal through sin) we naturally have a bent towards unbelief and call in to question everything that is? From which compulsion drives man in fear or arrogance or both to define reality for himself thus making himself God. It's sad and we actually blame God for it as if man did not freely choose AFTER being clearly forewarned.
Look around and within, this and that is what we have chosen over God, the existing One by whom all things exist who's being is absolute and glorious beyond compare and we were actually made by and for Him, that is, He defines us and not we Him! That's an awesome reality that if God didn't intervene, we would all, and have all rejected Him to our own detriment. He's allowed the consequences of our choices to be seen to show His glory that He is both sovereign and righteous and man has (a resposible) free will. For all things are from Him and to Him. There is no reality but Him, which is why all sin is ultimately againt Him. Come on man we are all guilty as charged and our arguments against truth only proves the truth.
The word of God is true. Repent and believe the Gospel.
Amen..
+Jesusistheonlyway
How is endorsing owning another human being as property moral?
....the god of the bible does.
How is promoting misogyny moral?
....the god of the bible does.
How is killing little boys and saving all the little virgin girls for use by the Hebrews moral?
....that's what the god of the bible ordered
How is scape goating moral?
....that's what the god of the bible promotes
Do you believe god has emotions?
@Sean Pittaway So my questions to you are. Why believe anyone or anything Sean? Isn't everything written by man? By your comment it appear you deem this beneath you. Why did you comment? Why would you ever waste your time? For that's exactly what it would be if you saw nothing fruitful in giving your words. Was it to show yourself superior to idiots? Then ask yourself why are you on this thread talking to "idiots", would you not rather offer insight to make your word worthy of thought and even more dare step up to answer some of humanities deepest questions longings and brights which are explicitly and implicitly manifest here? Was your friend in the video? Have you tried to believe in God but your own logic, feelings, experiences or lack thereof won? Is it scientific "evidence"? If so... evidence of what? Existence? Because that's all they've been able to prove.. that we exist..that common knowledge afforded to all. They don't know -how- they just know -that-! Why believe that or them? With all its variants and subjectivities and yes flaws? I love science always have. But Isn't those things written by man also and ultimately determined by one such as yourself, why do you take their word for it? When it comes to religion. Does man need religion to destroy himself? I when things out things extreme on purpose. Anybody willing to search can see many groups and individuals alike have done a fine job doing this apart from religion... why? Can you trully know a thing unless you have looked into for yourself? Have you truly sought God dared to talked to Him honestly asked Him if you are real show me I want things I want things opening know personally? Or are you too dignified for that?
I asked that slew of questions on purpose and I would like real answers too..if you can answer them better than the bible.. with not just logic but you must also give satisfying or at least hopeful answers for the exsitence of emotions as well. What seems hypocritical to me (and im speaking in general and not you perse) is how man in pretenses of knowledge ignore the profound fact that we are all moment by moment swallowed up in mystery on every side even after so called discoveries we are utterly uncertain of every single second that exist beyond the one we live in..thus every man in a sense lives his life by faith/trust/hope in a future something! Even the smartest (scientist, scholars "geniuses") among us know nothing and they admit it if you just listen to them. They change their minds with every discovery through many times they plant confident flags in the previous one. That we know nothing is the same argument unbelievers have against believers, to which we willingly admit as well BUT here is the difference we know the One who does know it all for it all came from Him and is unto Him.
At some point you are simply left to believe or not. And when it comes to the so called "greats"..they are kids playing with mud and materials (which they didn't and can't create) in an local space for a moment in time, then they return to the same mud themselves....for all of their studies and discoveries are in a very real sense ultimately subjective for they themselves are of the same thing they seek to look into which proves vain...moreover by the same endeavors they prove from within, that man knows there is more than meets the eye, that there are realities that cannot be put under a microscope but are reality nontheless..however mysterious they may be.. the intellect is one of them so is desire and emotion.
If our rationale, science and yes even our perceived and self admitted capacities for more, the unknown, wonder, excitement, the neverending, and ever increasing desires for pleasures and beauty would truly be worth the honor we seek to give it, we must reason upward and grant that there must be a corresponding existence whereby all these things evidently in us find meaning and fullfilment..thus reason and our very makeup does not negate God but rather proves Him and the denial of that in the search for fullfilment in other ways He has overwhelmingly furnished proof of Himself inside and out which is exactly why doubt is sin. Existence is comes from existnce subtance from substance are consistent witnesses we have in nature! Reflective even in imagination, for example these devices we use are proof of how the visible things are made from the invisible..for ex. Sean somebody made that device you use to view this very comment with and before that device was made it didn't exist..now it does yet the one who made it, existed before it, and is greater than the device and exist for the maker and not the other way around.
There can only be two ways to look at this, either man is his own definer of not just right and wrong but existence itself OR there is a being who has always existed, from whom and which all things and persons have their existence and though beyond comprehension, makes perfect sense in that His beign is completely necessary and indispensable to all being, and by this same reason could not be any being without His being including personal being, for if personhood were not in this eternal being to begin with, there could be no personal being or being at all..for only imtellects and emotions decide and desire to create. And its THAT being having all power who would actually be able to communicate Himself understandably to rational beings HE MADE in His own image. That's what we believe and we don't slaughter reason to get there only surrender to higher reasoning.
Your unbelief is simply a denial of all the evidence of God, with existence itself being among our greatest witness. There is no such thing as nothing from nothing no man has ever seen that and he won't because THAT don't exist. But God does.
At that moment Jesus said: My Father, Lord of heaven and earth, I am grateful that you hid all this from wise and educated people and showed it to ordinary people.
“Truly I tell you,” He said, “unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Let no one deceive himself: If anyone among you thinks himself to be wise in this age, let him become foolish, so that he may become wise.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
Without faith it is impossible to please God for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarded of those who diligently seek Him.
God resist the proud but gives grace to the humble
@@ricksmith3442 the ideas you have expressed here are not the God of the bible ...and whatever instances you cite for your interpretations can only be rightly understood in the context of the witness of all scripture. These are like two peices to a 1000 piece puzzle, they cannot alone give a comprehensive view of the picture so also by this "a view" of "a god" could emerges but it will not be the God of the bible. It's crucial to have an understanding.
It's alot deeper than that Rick and a diligent, prayful, humble search of the scriptures to find the God of the scriptures is rewarding and of utmost importance.. but if you are already settled on what you've said above as the way you will see Him, nothing I say can help you if there is no willing heart to understand God and man also and His dealings with him.
Atheist morality: generally being nice to other people, even though you know you're not going to get any reward by a devine being, not in the here and now nor in an afterlife. Why would you do such a thing? The ability to empathise and the realisation that if you do good to other people, they may do something for you in return later. How did this come about? Evolution. Cooperation increases your chances of survival. Being cooperative is built into our genes. "Good" and "evil" are poor terms to describe what's really going on in our universe. Things either work or they don't. All else seems like an extra and unnecessary layer of hooha to me. But that's just my humble opinion.
Isn’t that more or less the same? You described Christians doing good for rewards from God. But you also said basically that Atheists do good out of the chance they might benefit?
@@shazieregiment9175 the problem is, god cant be demonstrated to exist and cant be demonstrated to give rewards to people.
So murder is “good” because you can take their stuff and increase your chance of survival?
@@nattybumppo4151 no, you are just looking at it on a material level.
simply being good to people makes us feel good already, and could also lead to more benefits in the long run than killing people would
Natty needs to stop straw manning
at 5:34 you just state why God is immoral, cruel and not worthy of our time.
You are personifying God too much. God is not a human like me or you; He is an extradimensional being. He exists outside of time and space, and He is the creator of all things. God IS the moral standard that we look up to. We do not take life because we can't create it. Only God can create life, and we procreate through Him. We do not judge others because God is the moral standard.
God is worthy of our time because He is Infinite Love, and He is the only thing ever that will ever satisfy our desires. He loved us by creating us, and He wants to continue to love us in heaven. We just have to accept His love and love Him back.
If we are wicked people, God will love others by giving justice to us. If we do injustice, God MUST do justice to repay for what was lost to the ones He loves. For example, if someone killed my brother, God will love me by giving justice to the wicked person who killed my brother on the last day. It is fair, good, and right.
Matthew 5:6, "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be satisfied."
Great points on how people complain about God not stopping evil, and then complain when he does. I think it's also important to point out that many times when God commanded the Israelites to wipe out the Canaanites that our english translations of the Bible often translate those passages as getting rid of women, children, young and old. However, in the original Hebrew language that specificity is not included. It never says women and children. The Hebrew word that is used just means every living thing. Our english translations point out women and children young and old to try and emphasize that the word means all living things, but the original language never points out those specifics. AND, since the areas that Joshua was attacking (such as Jericho) were military and political bases, not general population centers, it is highly unlikely that women and children would have been present. It would be equivalent of the President of the United States ordering a drone strike on an ISIS camp. He may say, "I want you to totally wipe out that ISIS camp." Yes, he is calling for total annihilation, but he is certainly not calling for the murder of women and children, young and old. Just the terrorists on their base.
You misunderstand athiest contentions with this. Imagine a house was burning with innocent people inside, there's a guy with a giant hose and we plea for him to stop this situation. He uses the hose but then in addition to putting out the fire he drowns everyone inside, understandibly we are appalled with the way he chose to fix the problem not taking the people inside into consideration but instead he just shurgs and goes "you wanted my help". The point is what god does in the old testament to fix problems is complete overkill and completely sociopathic.
Well I's like to think that killing babies, burning animals and sacrificing virgins is immoral. And God did all that.
The young fellow asking the questions was way more intelligent than Frank
What Frank must explain is how people who have never read biblical text or predate biblical scripture knew right from wrong. Did god implant that from the beginning making these texts useless? God knows exactly what it would take for anyone to believe in him yet he chooses not to. God loves atheists.
There are verses that indicate that creation itself testifies of God's existence. Verses that talk about how God's law is written on mans heart (or something to that extent). Romans 1:18 says men "suppress the truth".
Basically according to the bible, every person is born being able to know the basics of right from wrong. The Ten Commandments and the bible go more in depth, I guess you could say.
Acts 17 tells you how. And yes, God loves atheists. He died for them and everyone else. God bless
hit it out of the park with the abortion analogy