Is it wrong for God to kill people?
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Frank dialogues with a former Christian who believes the God of the Bible acts immorally.
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#Morality #Relativism #Evil
I just wanted to say that I am the Christian who invited the questioner in this video to Frank Turek's lecture. I've known Jeremy for more than half of my life. We have many interesting intellectual conversations. I was so happy that my friend decided to come with me to this apologetics lecture by Turek. It was a great event and we had a great time. This comment section is a little disheartening, though. There are people making assumptions about my friend's personal life, even calling him gay because he has long hair (which is irrelevant, and he isn't). I love apologetics, and I love what Frank Turek does, because he gives well-reasoned arguments to serious questions about our faith. But when people stoop to insulting the person asking the question, they distance that person further from the faith. Furthermore, it undermines the project of apologetics. Rather than drawing (incorrect) conclusions about someone's personal life, perhaps a better project would be to be ready to give an answer to questions like this, as Frank Turek did, and as the Bible commands. I invited an atheist to a Christian event intending for him to receive welcome, not so he could be bashed by strangers on the internet.
I am Sorry, that people do that, it really is a shame. I am really happy that your friend went to the event.
Amen!
I pray you continue to sew seeds into him and that his love for and desire to follow Jesus will be rekindled through the prompting of Holy Spirit. We have such a loving and forgiving Father. I pray your friend realizes he is the prodigal son. Please ignore all the negative comments. I wish people would think before they type...
God doesn’t hate gays, he hates sin and we all sin because our bodies are sin, as long as your friend believes on the finished work of Christ then he is saved, it’s not what we do that saves us is what he’s done,
“Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.”
Hebrews 7:25-28 KJV
My man sounds just hurt. Hoping that the Holy Spirit massages his heart and lifts the veil from his eyes.
I agree!
Yea he does sound hurt....I pray God heals his heart.
I agree, very wise observation
Nsadi Lobondi he is not sick, he uses logic unlike y’all brainless drones.
I've noticed a lot of people that have "lost their faith" use something to do with homosexuality as a "random example." Not a coincidence, IMO.
At least the dude was polite. That's always nice to see
He was very rude, actually.
It takes more than a smile and a pleasant tone to be polite.
I can tell you to go F yourself with a smile and a pleasant tone. Am I being polite?
@@pescatoralpursuit1726 well what else do you have in a conversation like this to show politeness other than smiling speaking respectfully and kindly and being patient?
@@Jell-E
Your words and the intention behind them.
He for all intents and purposes accused Turek of being a prime agent convincing him away from his faith, which at the same time implies that Turek is so incompetent, he is having the opposite effect of what he set out to do.
In that moment he could not have hurled a greater insult at the man.
Silly and transparent which is why Turek didn't take the bait.
@mldfry What is "love?"
Raising awareness to take a detour because the bridge is out ahead, is love.
Baker acting someone who may harm themself is love.
Proscribing immoral behavior that will leads to dire eternal consequence is love.
@mldfry Homosexuality in whichever way you measure it (morally, physically, psychologically,) is self-harming. To dissuade its PRACTICE is love.
Just like other forms of sexual immorality.
Praying for this dude that God brings him back and fills him with even more hope and joy than he used to have!
IN JESUS NAME!!
Why you don't let him find hope and joy, anywhere else?
@@goldenboy12ish Because we believe God is the highest joy and so to wish him anything less wouldn't be the best. You may disagree that God is the greatest good, but at least now you know the motivation
Punchbowhaircut thank you brother, that is a wonderful thing to do.
Amen!
Exacting justice is not murder. Our judges and courts of law don't murder criminals by sentencing them to death. They're upholding the law. Our military weren't murderers for killing Nazi's who were attacking and killing other people. They were protecting our country as well as others.
There's a justifiable and righteous judgement on sin and law breaking and to not judge sin would be unjust. A judge who allows laws to be broken and refuses to uphold the law is not good. Justice must be served for a judge to be righteous. God is holy and righteous. We underestimate the gravity of our sin and don't understand the holiness of God when we begin to accuse God of wrongdoing. It's us who need the change. Not Him.
Is unnecessary violence... evil ?
Torture, brutality in Hell is Vengeance - it is not Justice. The criminal being burnt in hell does nothing for the victim - does not get their life back, does not get their loved ones back
Just a primitive religion that made God the best they could & sadly being blindly followed even by the brightest of today
Ramaraksha putting someone in prison does not bring the family back either. It is still Justice isn’t it?
Trucker Pete well said!
Ramaraksha If you do something wrong you deserve punishment, in whatever way that punishment may come. Not everyone that kills another person goes to hell, for some their punishment is guilt and it can be lifelong until you ask for forgiveness from the creator and then you can forgive yourself. Everyone can be redeemed. Don’t focus on the punishment of wrong doing, focus on the reward of doing good! 🙂
Watching the poor guy standing in line to ask his question, trying so hard to button his shirt correctly made me smile.
This man has never met God. I have and could never turn away. Stop looking in books. Look for Him on your knees.
your wrong there have been many christians that knew God that have fallen away, why do you think there will be a Great falling away? if you cant fall away then paul lied about a great falling away happening before the end
Perhaps the seed tossed to him fell on thorns. Jesus spoke of sowing seeds, and various soils these seeds may fall on.
@@mylucidadventures6540 then why does he say if they leave us they were never one of us?
@@nazariff6161 i dont know i just came across that verse, but tge perible of the seed seems like some believed before they left???
@@BLUEHAMMERHEAD Both my wife and I met the Lord 10 years apart. Over night, she changed from a lost and broken alcoholic, to a caring and sane human being. She took her last drink in 2004. I was an agnostic at the time and could not believe what I was seeing. I followed years later and I had an experience so overwhelming that it permanently changed me. When it happens to you, you are a changed person. A converted person. Not a good person, but a changed person.
As an aside, my job is to manage money for my clients. Sometimes significant amounts. Many of my clients are agnostic or atheist. We talk often of these matters and I have never, ever lost a client because they think I'm somehow deluded or mad. Why do you suppose they trust someone like me, to look after their financial futures, if I believe in sky fairies? The evidence suggests that they do trust me and the only possible explanation is that, deep down, belief in God is properly basic.
The results when you "lean unto your own understanding"..
*not
He never had a testimony of why he became a Christian!
He never had a relationship with the Lord and saviour
It would seem like this has happened a good deal, then, in European history, also?
And in the interest of ANY understanding... why WAS Satan owed any access to this world, at all, in the initial case?
If u hold on to something that is not of your understanding then how can you make others understand it? The guy is smart, that's why he stopped believing even when he wanted to.
@@mesoanto1031
He wasn't there to give a testimony, he was there to have questions answered.
Truthfully the scriptures have things in there that is difficult to digest. No-one likes to see the God of Judgement and Justice. If we are honest with ourselves It's uncomfortable. As it should do, because if it didn't warn us God's judgment we would be screwed.
He needs true encounter not evidence. Money and careers with in the church seems to me changes people.
I agree completely. I love apologetics, but it has to stay secondary to the conversion of my heart 7 years ago. I do wonder when people say they 'used to be' Christians, whether they ever were in the true sense. What happened to me is irreversible and my life is spent either walking with God or looking for him when he seems distant. It didn't come from a book, an argument or an apologist. It happened the day I met the Lord.
@@marwood1969
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
Matthew 13:20-21 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.
It seems to me this describes this man. He needs the Holy Spirit, and prayer.
@Tom Bladecki You didn't actually reply to my particular comment. But what you did say is an unsubstantiated opinion, followed by an infallacy - literally everything is rationalized, supposing you're having an intellectual conversation.
@Tom Bladecki Neither you or Job represented God. Only Jesus Christ our Savior did that. Your tactics of trolling on everyone's comments won't work. Be gone, demon.
I think one of the biggest problems why people lose their faith is because they actively seek sin and love it more than God. Pornography just as example is a huge sin in this world yet how many people still do it? That sin separates us from God as now we are doing what we want to do instead of what God wants us to do. So therefore the relationship with God is lost until the person stops sinning completely, repents and seeks God again. I think its as simple as that.
Great responses from Dr Turek. The guy is putting God on the same emotional level as us humans and God never does anything arbitrarily. He sees the bigger picture and because we love God and know His character, we know that HE knows why HE has
committed a particular action. We trust in HIS goodness. Apologetics is excellent to learn but it's more head knowledge. This gentleman needs to cry out and ask the Holy Spirit to draw him closer to Jesus, therefore leading him into all truth. I pray he does.
Michelle you might be interested in worshiping, hitler, Stalin, Kim jon cuck, kahn, and any other dictator of your choosing, it would have the same moral weight than your tyrannical god.
E Rebull If there is a God, why does he not have the right to decide who lives in this life, and who moves on to the next?
@@emiliouchila there we go again, comparing God to man, you proved her point.
@@averygibson because we are not his property. the same way you cant control the cells of your body.
@@emiliouchila I mean, we are. He made us, breathed life into us. We are his, and therefore he has the right to terminate our life when he sees fit.
The guy brought up good questions. I think Frank didnt satisfy him by giving him the answer he wanted. Neither am i satisfied with the answer. But we dont have all the answers. You guys must know that.
1. Why is God said to be slow to anger?
Answer: Its not because He lets sin get away easy or He is slow in punishing. But it is because He forgives those who repent. God is slow to anger towards those who repent and turn away from their sins. In the case of the guy who disobeyed God by trying to touch the ark of covenant, the bible doesnt mention him repenting of his action. Hence, he died. Even Nineveh* was saved because they repented. If it weren't for God's mercy, everyone would have died instantly due to the sins they commit against God on a daily basis.
2. Why would God kill if He commands us not to?
Answer: God is a judge. He is the one who makes the Law. He can condemn any sinners when He knows it is right. But we are not the judge hence we cannot kill someone. But God appoints judges even among us to carry out His task.
You make good points. I dont think Frank gave a satisfactory answer. This seems more like a moral question that a head question. Someone like Ravi zacharias could probably answer better.
@@hawkgurl1157 agreed. Ravi is an unbeatable beast when it comes to moral arguments. I am glad Frank still posted this video. He is being honest. Also, i believe he must have got the satisfactory answer as soon as he reached home😂
@@realityhits3022 Yeah. I thought of it a little differently than how Frank explained it. Its similar to your last point, but the simple answer is we're not the same. A judge is trained with schooling and experience and is given the legal right. Versus me who has none of this. God tells us how we can be holy on the parameters of our own nature. We are made to be in His image but we arent Him. People would expect a judge and a regular citizen to have different actions cause they dont have the same qualifications. Why wouldn't they have the same expectation for God and His creation?
I agree. Frank didn’t satisfy my curiosity in this. For the man who touched the Ark. I think he died immediately right? Been a long time since I’ve read it, but I think that’s how I remember it. Honestly, I do not think God killed him. He warned them not to touch it. If I remember right, the Ark was like a throne for God to be among the Jews. I would say that, because of this, touching the Ark actually killed him. Like how if we saw God in full glory here on earth we would likely drop dead. Even in Heaven we will fall on our faces.
@@TheScopeGlint i get what you mean. Are you a Charismatic? Please dont mind me asking. Actually God was the one who killed Uzzah. Its in 1chronicles 13:9-11. To be honest the man was just trying to "help" the situation. Even David was angry that God actually killed Uzzah. But, It wasnt an instant death. The scripture didn't say anything like that. It says God was angry and He struck him death. So, i am ASSUMING that he had time to repent. But he didnt even tho he was aware of what he was doing.
Jeremy, I hope you will return to your first love, Jesus. Be blessed. I used to have the same question as you did, but I realised that the Bible doesn't always explain why God reacted the way He did at certain times as depicted in the Bible. There is a bigger picture on why He did what He did and it's always for a good reason, which sometimes we will never know until we go to heaven.
The questioner never seems to consider Gods knowledge when making decisions. How can we (beings with finite knowledge) determine that God did not have sufficient reasons for doing what he did in a "preceived" rash manner. It is quite possible that God saw it coming and chose to act when it did happen so we would take the situation seriously
I think the Bible says somewhere the reason why God allows some of the righteous to die young is so that something worse doesn't happen to them. SO yeah, you seem to be absolutely right.
That's a great brother!!....very well put! Bless
@@NSAd_music you people will justify anything just so you don't have to accept the fact you believe in nonsense without any proof
@@Marinanor do you think it says something somewhere or do you KNOW? You think and that is the reason you believe nonsense
@@winstonsmiththx1138 Isaiah 57:1 , read it and weep
This breaks my heart. Everybody let’s pray for this guy! Not once, but keep him in our prayers!!
Don't bother. Prayer doesn't do anything, no one is listing.
What makes you say that? Have you prayed for something and been let down?
Can prayer manipulate reality?
Why help people when you can just pray?😂
“Can you give me an example?”
“Yeah that one time with that one person, I’d have to look it up.”
“Okay can I get an example?”
“Yeah the when they stopped the covenant from falling in the mud.”
“Yeah, they were told to not touch it. They were told to not throw it in the mud, but they were also told to not touch it. They disobeyed him.”
“Yeah, but he was mad.”
That’s not anger bud, that’s punishment for not obeying an explicit command...
Engineers have determined the way the Ark was designed, it was a defacto capacitor, meaning it accumulated and stored electrical energy (likely static) then would immediately release it when grounded, hence the commandment not to touch it.
Uzzah grounded the stored electrical charge, but from the perspective of the unknowing witnesses, God zapped him.
Exactly. These atheists never listen.
@@pescatoralpursuit1726 So how was it that the levites could touch it and not get hurt?
Well, he wasnted to keep the ark out of the mud because the mud is dirty, right? So he held it up with his hand, which is less dirty.
Except, it's not. The mud doesn't disobey God or sin. Him assuming his hand was more pure and holy than God's own earth was an act of pride.
@@hewhositsuponfroggychair5722 they carried it on wooden sticks slid through rings fastened to the sides if I recall correctly. Wood is a poor conductor of electricity. I believe the sticks were gold plated, and while I'm no electrician, that may have helped slowly charge the ark but not enough contact to immediately discharge it.
When the gentleman says “God is quick to anger”- even though the Bible says the opposite- he is supposing that God can be surprised... Is God surprised by anything? Could it be that God is reacting exactly as He should based on the information that ONLY He knows- and keep in mind, God knows everything. Why do people think they can know better than God?
of course! when god killed 1000s of men, women and children (even babies) in their beds in Egypt it was because those babies deserved what they got. That'll teach em!
Panikos Of Grays - Right on... Do you have a substantive statement, a question, or what?
Zaaaactly.
@@panikosofgrays1904 sure taught Pharoah who respresented Egypt and dealt directly with God as a man shaking his fist and enslaving the isrealites.
You should be ashamed of those type of comments but of course...
God's infinite mercy.
@@drummerboy737 panikos is asking why god has a consistent track record of killing loads of people, especially kids. Why be 'ashamed' of asking the question?
@ 9:28 Frank: "Sometimes he may take actions that we don't understand". Questioner: "Sure". Frank: "He may take actions that we don't understand, but They're still in his right". Questioner: "Yeah".
This guy does not know what he's thinking. First, in the beginning, he says God is wrong or immoral for taking the life of somebody who didn't raise up children with his brother's wife. But then he turns around and says "yeah" to God taking actions that we don't understand, but They are still in his right.
This guy is confused. He doesn't know what he believes. I think he's trying to take his personal moral beliefs and place them on God in given situations, not knowing the those circumstances. He's mixed up.
And yet he says he's done research, investigated and read many books.... Nah, this guy is more than confused. He's deceived and his eyes have been blinded. There is more than enough evidence in all the books he's mentioned. This is an example of those who's hearts have bee hardened and eyes blinded because he has been given up to his own desires. He thinks he's literally wiser than God...
@@goor1322 He loves worldly things and this evidence nonsense is just a cop out. This guy does not want to be told what to do or be held accountable.
Just because you don’t understand his perspective does not make him confused. It is clear that he’s formed an opinion on the matter based on findings. You cannot digest someone’s mind on a 12 minute conversation.
The man was killed not for not wanted to have children with his brother’s widow ....but for “spilling his seed” ...
And God taking the life of a human is not murder as “All have fallen short of the Glory of God.”
We stand guilty before him.
That's the reason for why he was there. To clear things up.
"What does it take to make me believe that triangles do not have three sides?"
Stevie Filkoski excellent my friend!
Lol
Ask an illiterate man the same question and see what he says
A lie and someone fool enough to believe that lie. What does it take to believe that the christian god is good? ignorance or believing that god cannot be morally judged. If he cant be morally stated as being bad then he cant be morally stated as being good. Several actios of the christian god are morally wrong so if he cant be stated to be bad due to what he does then by that same logic he shouldnt be deemed as good neither, beacuse if his wrong actions are ignored his good ones should be ignored too.
😂
In order to understand the intent of the creator you have to look at the beginning. We were supposed to live forever, no pain and God taking care of us. We have free will and choose to reject. All evil happens because people reject Gods laws. If we loved each other like ourselves this world would be like heaven or if we followed the 10 commandments our world would be like heaven.
Exactly!
Tj White if you lied once then you have sinned against God. God always chooses the best person for certain tasks. Don’t know how long it took for Adam and Eve to fall, but I believe everyone else would have fell a lot earlier.
Tj White why do I need evidence outside the Bible. If it is true you will find it in the Bible with the stories. In the first book you have God putting Adam to sleep before surgery and he takes out the rib and the rib is the only bone to regenerate. (Job 26:7He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing.) back when they believe the earth hanged on a turtle or elephants. How can a book over 2000 years old have known things scientist didn’t discover until so much later
Exactly. Right on the money
Tj White: for anyone to have some level of understanding of God, you have to be in relationship with him.
He asked, "Then why do we claim that he (God) is a moral authority and example if we are not to follow his example?"
I think this is another logical fallacy that this guy poses to Frank. He would have to break that one down because there's no way to answer it without getting trapped if you're not careful.
And he asked, "What would God need to do to convince you that he isn't morally good?"
That would mean that God would have to go against his nature to do so.
He stopped believing after reading on of Frank's apologetics books? That's definitely one I've never heard of happening before. I hope and pray that he comes to know Christ before it's too late.
@Philo of Eruditia, I think Frank saying that he may even have the wrong God wasn't actually something he believes. I think he said that for the sake of the argument.
@Philo of Eruditia, I agree.
@Philo of Eruditia, God doesn't contradict his own justice. Sin is what God judges and the punishment for sin is death. That's the point people are missing. If God didn't punish sin, he wouldn't be just.
It's the same as someone being put to death for committing the crime of murder.
@Philo of Eruditia because everything God allows to happen to us is used to build us up.
@Philo of Eruditia so if Hitler was beaten raped then killed before he took office and God allowed that to happen just so that monster wouldn't start the holocost you would still have a problem with God?
Dr. Frank Turek, I am a huge fan and love watching your videos!! I’ve been on a journey and realizing the key details in Jesus’ message and how to spread his word in this generation. I hope one day I’ll be able to meet you and have a nice talk about our God and his son.
After reading all the books he's said he has read, and he still comes to this conclusion, what is he really looking for?
Anthony Pierre I think he’s hurt and is trying to justify the hurt by saying God is bad
Or he has sin in his life that he doesn’t want to part with. When faced with the same decision as the rich young ruler, he similarly went away sad because he wasn’t willing to deny himself, pick up his cross, and follow Christ.
He read those books looking for an excuse not to believe.
Evidence
Leah Donald according to the Bible god is a monster.
δούλος του Χριστού Lots of assumptions you are making there.
2:54
How am I supposed to follow my father’s example if I can’t ground my brother and withhold his allowance?
It’s a matter of position and right to authority.
Amazing analogy
So true... I can spank my daughter when she draws in the wall but I don't expect her 1 year older brother to do it when he sees it...I have the authority over my daughter not my son
In other words God can kill anyone he wants. But we cannot. You guys are really brainwashed.
Thank you
@@ernestnketiah5447
What is your objection to God playing god?
Brainwashing is always a possible explanation or factor regarding an individual’s epistemology regardless of the faction or conclusion, but I would like to hear your actual ontological objection to the concept of God’s authority over man.
My man, by his eyes movements and his tone, he is hurt bro... God heal his heart lord
Does it what christians always say when someone ask genuine questions. They resort to character assasination instead of focusing on the question. Really cheap of you guys.
@@ernestnketiah5447 because it is the truth, and us Christians are obliged to show people the truth. You see, most people are on a happiness quest but not on the truth quest. The difference between us Christians and Atheists like you (I assume that you're an Atheist) is that we Christians are on a truth quest and Atheists are on a happiness quest. In order to know the truth, you must be hurt in your hearth because being hurt of the truth is the process of God The Holy Spirit changing you. Almost all Christians experience this, it hurts at the beginning but if you don't give up on the process. You will experience the Peace in tour heart and soul that the world cannot possibly give you. Joy isn't an absence of sadness, that's why I like to call us Christians: "Sorrowful but always Rejoicing". Praying for your soul brother and everybody who has never known the truth. Always know that Jesus loves you and we Christians love you too. God Bless!
@@sagittariusa581 As usual making claims about things you don't understand. Atheism is simply lack of belief in Gods. It has nothing to do with happiness quest as you claim.
This is what I love about this channel they dont stray away from dealing with tough questions
He doesn’t needs evidence, he needs faith, and that is a gift of God!
We cannot judge God by our standards. He is far above any standard we can have, and doing so will make Him seemingly fall short because we are fickle and our standards change. Therefore, to attribute our own understanding of emotions and emotional would-be responses to God would lead us down a dangerous path of distrust and disbelief.
Holy Spirit, restore this young man to Christ. Thank You, Jesus. Amen.
Shalom
If dying on the cross for our SINS isn't enough to call God morally excellent... i have no clue what else will convince the poor man otherwise.
Romans 8:28 (KJV)
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied in Jesus holy name.
1. That never happened... And
2. One good deed doesn't make all the killing good aswell.....
@@somerandom3247
Shalom
Its not about the absence of evidence of God, its the suppression of it.
True inside can not be gained by specialized human knowledge, doctrine or dogma.
It can only be achieved by the illumination of one own inner self
And for that you need the free gift of salvation from Christ, Jesus.
May you be risen with Christ and seek those things that are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
I had a lot of the same questions that were answered by the Bible and doing Bible study. When you dive in, it reads you.
Thank you Dr. Frank Turek for all that you do to represent the Kingdom of God and be the Ambassador of the faith that we have all been charged to be, as believers. Keep fighting the good fight of faith!💪🏽🙏🏽🙌🏽
Evolution made man and man made God, Satan, angles, Adam&Eve, sin, virgin birth, resurrection, and walking on water. Religion has got the gullible suckers duped.
@@AtamMardes
FIFY
"Atheism has got the gullible suckers duped."
When parents say: 'Follow my example' to their underage kids, do they mean that they should go off driving cars?
Of course not. If everyone had the same authority or function, there would be anarchy.
God is the moral standard, the authority. In multiple governmental structures, citizens are forbidden from judging their own cause and have to report wrongdoings to AUTHORITY. So in the same way, report your grievance to God, and let Him take care of it.
That’s a good analogy.
We don't need to understand God We have to obey him!
And trust Him.
This is why Christianity can be so harmful. It promotes blind authoritarianism.
we need to understand his caracter..tu understand us.
@@king489 so says you.
I thought the goal was to have a loving relationship with God; not blindly obey him like slaves to a master. If God didn't want you to ask questions, he wouldn't have given you a brain.
God gives and God takes away. It is his right and his alone to hold control over life and death.
God always warns and shows grace before acting. After all, it took God 430 years before a tribe of people were taken out (who you later see wasn't actually decimated). What that guy isn't getting is that God judges sin and the people in the Bible that God took out of this world for sinning, they were continually disobedient and in the case of Annanaias and Saphaira, (however you spell their names), were intentional in it. Like Frank said, God isn't emotional and you can see this guy is just imposing his view onto the Bible and giving the context a meaning it never had.
The one thing God could do to make me question His goodness, was if He acted unjustly toward sinners. And by unjustly, I mean looking the other way and letting sin go unpunished. THAT would be the actions of a morally evil God. And coincidentally, that’s the God that many “Christians” make up for themselves to allow them to live in their sin while still calling Him “Lord, Lord”.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this gentleman has some kind of secret sin that he just doesn’t want to give up, and that is the actual reason why he left the faith. I think something like that can easily cause you to read “monstrous” apologetic books LOOKING for a reason to disbelieve.
Men loved the darkness rather than the light, because it exposes their wickedness. And men don’t like that.
δούλος του Χριστού you wouldn’t know what a sinner is unless you had the correct God
avilesw yes and no.
Yes, because if you had the wrong god, you wouldn’t have specific instructions to identify your specific sins.
No, because Scripture makes clear that God embedded a conscience into every human being. Each person can misinform and thereby corrupt it, they may ignore it and thereby dull it, but they have it nonetheless, and it shows each person their general guilt before a righteous and holy God, and their shortcoming of God’s righteous standard.
δούλος του Χριστού how do you know you have the correct instructions? How do you know you have the correct scriptures?
avilesw How many times have you “known” something to be an absolute indisputable fact, only to be proven wrong about that thing later?
I believe absolute truth exists, but I also believe that our track record for being wrong proves us to be quite incapable of knowing anything for an absolute fact.
Instead, we can each study the evidence (whether we are Christian, muslim, atheists, or whatever) and come to an informed conclusion about those evidences, and this in turn forms our beliefs. In this process we are all prone to let the coin fall based on our own pre-conceptions, our cultural influences, our upbringing, and any number of influences.
No, my friend, I don’t KNOW that I have the right Scripture or God. But, I firmly BELIEVE that I do based on my own investigation and what I believe to be more than enough evidence.
@@DoulosXristou0 yes
7:35 This made me think of,
"Then Jesus told him, 'Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.'" (John 20:29)
I think God is trying to increase this man's faith. Let's all pray for him.
Why we fall? we wanted to be our own god... our own judgement of good and evil
God gave us free will so isn't it kind of his fault that we make decisions on what's good and evil?
@@ADMusic1999 Is our fault consequence of the choice possible by free will. If someone gives you a car, are they responsible of you crashing it?
@@digitalsublime well they are if they cut the brakes. (snake in the garden ring any bells?
@@mylucidadventures6540 the snake would be a sexy girl billboard... the accident happened because we get diatracted with the world, instead of focusing in the inner connection to God's righteousness, that is driven well, and your brakes are in perfect shape.
We can blame others for our shortcomings all our life, it sucks.
But until we dont realize our dark heart and ask God for help (intimately and honestly), we will be in darkness that is befitting our inner state.
Such respect demonstrated by both men. Appreciate exchanges like this.
This is a point that really baffles me. People assume God is evil because "He kills people in the old Testament".
But then again, if God is indeed the creator and sustainer of all life, doesn't that grant Him the right to TAKE it?
He does own it all, after all.
To paraphrase Jeremiah, " can a broken piece of pottery tell the Potter what to do?"
Frank: Red is red. Red is red because red IS red itself.
Atheist: Red is not red. Because red is not red enough (by my standards) to be red itself.
Research Plato's platonic concepts if you don't understand
Colorblind people: "What is red?
@@zerocooler7 blind people "what is color?"
willie mute people “🤏🏼👆🏼🤘🏼🤙🏼”
Red is merely a label we've attached to a certain band of the visible electromagnetic spectrum.
My wife: it's red.
Me: nah, I think it's more orange.
My son: it's grayish green. (He's colourblind)
@@somedutchguy7582 I understand what you're saying, I was just trying to conceptualize the color so it would be easier to understand then using an actual concept like Beauty.
I agree and understand what colors are but can't the same thing be said for water actually being H2O. So would my previous statement make more sense to you if I were to replace the word "red" in that situation with H2O. All I was trying to do was point out that the atheists reasoning did not make sense in this case.
Sorry for bad grammar.
I like making this analogy to better explain why Gods laws to man shouldn't be used to judge Gods actions. Let me explain:
A father and son live on a busy road. The son is not equipped yet to grasp the dangers of that road and therefore the father tells him sternly not to cross it under any circumstance.
One day the son witnesses his father crossing the road. What should the son think and do?
Scenario 1: The son does not understand why his father went across the road and takes offense that he told him not to do what he did and therefore attempts to cross the road only to face oncoming traffic and dies.
Scenario 2: The son does not understand why his father went across the road but trusts him enough to continue to obey his command about not crossing the road and in doing so unknowingly preserves his life.
We have to understand that if Christianity is true, then we have to accept that we are finite creatures who serve and are given life by an infinite God. We can understand much, but there will be times that we might come across something we do not understand and we will have a choice... do we know enough about God to trust him in what we dont understand or will we rebel in ignorance about something we do not understand. That choice is ours to make.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord . “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55:8-9 NASB
My son, do not forget my teaching, But let your heart keep my commandments; For length of days and years of life And peace they will add to you. Do not let kindness and truth leave you; Bind them around your neck, Write them on the tablet of your heart. So you will find favor and good repute In the sight of God and man. Trust in the Lord with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.
Proverbs 3:1-5 NASB
Brandon Ball , okay but in comparing your analogy to the don’t touch the arc story. The son sees the father cross the street and sees his father fall from, let’s say twisting his ankle. The son rushes across the street, makes it to his father to see if he’s okay . The father angrily yells at his son “ I told you not to cross the street “ and pierces the sons heart with a knife killing him...
haha, the arc was falling. Have you ever dropped anything and almost instinctively reach out for it ?
I think that was one of the points the hippie was trying to make. God is an angry over reactor
@@usray3219 , that might be how you view God but you have to make a lot of assumptions that contradict the biblical view of God to get to your point of view. Not to mention you have to assume the man who touched the ark did so solely on instinct alone. If you grant the Christian concept of God, he is all knowing and exists outside time and is perfectly just. Such a being isnt processing things in real time like we do and therefore what seems like over reacting to you may very well be simply a just consequence for such actions when one sees the full picture.
What we are dealing with is scenarios that a fuller understanding could change the way we see things. It boils back down to my original analogy....
When we are faced with not understanding something, how should we choose to think and act?
You may have chosen to view God in the worst possible light in these areas instead of trusting what is known about God throughout the bible but that doesnt mean that it is an accurate representation of God.
Brandon Ball , god did exist outside of time and if a god knows all that is going to happen, that makes the guy who touched the arks death premeditated....
@@usray3219 , that is correct. God knew that event would take place. God knew anyone who touched the Ark would die, that is why he warned them not to touch it.
As Jesus Once Said "Blessed Are They Who Have Not Seen, And Yet Have Believed"
@Hanata's World - then how do they know they are being told the whole truth? And do they at least not have to FEEL the Spirit, reliably? And also, which one, for sure?
@@chrissonofpear1384 you have the will to not believe if you did not see and believe when you see, but "Blessed are they who Have not seen, and yet have believed"
@@chrissonofpear1384 either way the truth will find you, one way or another
As Jesus once said: 'Slaves obey your masters, even the cruel ones.'
Why quote Jesus to begin with? There are much better people to quote out there.
He didn't leave the faith. He fell in love with his own sin.
Wise
That might well be true, but I don't think it's fair to make an assumption of that magnitude about someone you don't know. I didn't hear anything that suggested that in the things he said.
@@kelly6094 I did, the very first thing he went to was the stoning of gays. We could be wrong though. Either way he needs our prayer.
@@Nasher1976PSN I suppose you could very well be right, and he is referencing stoning gays because he doesn't want to be judged himself. However, it seemed to me more that he has adopted the current values of our culture, and now sees God as being immoral because the bible doesn't go along with current views of sexuality.
@@Nasher1976PSN your prayer has absolutely NO power.
It all boils down to this question . . . Are you looking for a way in OR are you looking for a way out? You just don't want to see the Truth!
So true!
Father God please shower your grace on this guy asking the questions. I remember when I had the exact same questions before I knew you. Please reveal yourself to him and change his life just like you did mine, even though I didn’t deserve it lord. Show him and help him to understand your character lord God. Thank you for your love grace and mercy lord God, and for sending your son to die for me. I praise you and worship you. You are the highest authority lord and you are good, you are not a tyrant. Thank you for forgiving me father God and letting me know you and have a real relationship with you. It was only when you initiated a relationship with me when I finally understood you and the heartache you go through when we sin and blaspheme against you with lies about your character, without even knowing. Change this guys heart lord, please. In Jesus name.
The more common heretical "churches" become and misinformation is spread to distort God's Truth the greater the need is for doctrinally sound Christian apologetics. Great video!
That's probably one of the toughest questions he ever had to answer.. Jeremy was asking straight direct questions, but getting side ways answers. We have to admit that there are some questions that we just have no answer to. I really can't give a straight direct answer to Jeremy's question. I admit that. God is able, and maybe will choose to reveal it through true understanding of His word. If not, ask Him when you meet Him. As it was said, maybe I have the wrong God... But if the God of the bible is the true God, our unanswered questions of Him doesn't change Him from being God. Just ask Job...
When the gospel and God are reduced to only transactional encounters, faith, love, and hope are tremendously diminished.
No. God is the Judge and he is just in all he does.
so if God is just and kills someone on earth for there sin, but lets others live for the same sin how is that just?
@@mylucidadventures6540 we don't know everything. We don't know what God knows. Maybe one person will give their heart to Jesus on their death bed. Maybe someone will have a child and that child will do great things for the Lord. We can't possibly know what will happen. We just have to trust God enough that he knows best.
Regardless, in the end any, and all, unrepentant sinners get the same punishment.
Of course, it's as easy as repenting that can spare one from hell.
There are people in the faith, who claim sinners are sent to hell, for eternity.
Adolf Hitler sent his perceived enemies to Auschwitz, a way lesser version of hell, and he's a nazi scumbag.
If the lesser action is a heinous crime, how can the infinitely worse action be divine justice?
@@Lv99RetroHippy there are people in the faith that claim hell is eternal? Of course we do because that is what the bible says. It is just because no evil can dwell in the presence of God. He is holy and if he allows sin in heaven then he is not just.
I hope this guy finds peace and grace again. Hopefully, it won't be too late.
To the fellow who was asking the questions in the video, I would ask him to try to remember:
Oh Lord, my God, when I in awesome wonder
Consider all the worlds Thy hands have made
I see the stars, I hear the rolling thunder
Thy power throughout the universe displayed
Then sings my soul
My Savior God to Thee
How great Thou art
How great Thou art
When thru the woods and forest glades I wander
And hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees
When I look down, from lofty mountain grandeur
And hear the brook and feel the gentle breeze
Then sings my soul
My Savior God to Thee
How great Thou art
How great Thou art
And when I think, that God, His Son not sparing;
Sent Him to die, I scarce can take it in;
That on the Cross, my burden gladly bearing,
He bled and died to take away my sin.
Then sings my soul
My Savior God to Thee
How great Thou art
How great Thou art
When Christ shall come, With shouts of acclamation
And take me home, What joy shall fill my heart
Then I shall bow, in humble adoration
And there proclaim, "My God, how great Thou art!"
Then sings my soul
My Savior God to Thee
How great Thou art
How great Thou art
Then sings my soul
My Savior God to Thee
How great Thou art
How great Thou art
How great Thou art
How great... Thou art
How great Thou art
Oh Lord, my God
How great Thou art
How great Thou art
Oh Lord, my God
That God acted out of anger in the case of Uzzah is simply an assumption, a conclusion drawn from insufficient evidence. As Dr. Turek points out, the text doesn't say God acted out of anger. And since it is not logically necessary that His action was done out of anger, to claim that He did is inferring what was not implied.
I hope this individual can re-evaluate the issue with greater mental discipline. I don't doubt he has examined those books. But if he's erred in such a simple and fundamental matter as drawing a conclusion about the motivations of another without sufficient evidence, then it naturally suggests that other reasoning errors were likely made as well. We can have all the facts in the world, but they do us no good if we don't reason properly.
And it seems to me the question he needed to ask Dr. Turek is, "What could the God of the Bible do to prove to you that He is not in fact God."
If God is not slow to anger then we should die now because we are sinners..i think that man with long hair is a gay..i mean literally a gay.
Exactly. People say they want "fairness" and "justice". Then we'd be struck dead the very first time we sinned. THAT'S justice. We don't want justice, we want mercy. The problem is, people think they are entitled to mercy now. And by definition, you can't be entitled to mercy. It's not longer mercy at that point.
@@MansterBear Amen. Hell is justice for our sins. I'd much rather have mercy by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
Oh so you're a gay basher as well as being an imbecile?!
We don't have to hate homosexuals. We have to hate the sin, all people are God's children.
@@Anti-Alphabet_Mafia All people are not God's children. Creations yes, children no. That's reserved for those who've been adopted into the family of God by being born again by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
Jesus said this to the Scribes and Pharisees, You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it."
John 8:44
I think this guy is really looking for answers and not just being difficult. Nice to see. I don't see that a lot. Usually there is nothing you can say and they are just trying to tear believers down and our God. Ill be praying for this young man.
Unless you taste his goodness, you never know how good he is.
@Enjoy and Travel The World! Allah is the name of God for Islam thats their language.
Yahweh/Jehovah is the main title of God in the old testament.
Joshua/yeshua/Jesus is the true name of God in the new testament.
It depends on the country from which the people live in.
In Hebrew language Jesus is Yeshua.
But no matter how many different translations of english name of Jesus, one thing for sure the name of Jesus is the most highest name above all names, it has the same power of name.
God bless you
@Enjoy and Travel The World! One thing for sure, there is no way you could disprove my faith.
Ofcourse the english name is Jesus but last 2,000 yrs ago its the hebrew name for Joshua (pronounce as Jo-ho-shuwa) and last 1600 it was translated to english as Jesus the only saviour.
You know what?
I would believe that atheists are the gods of themselves if they could stop death from coming into their lives..
Can’t you imagine? You are doing everything you like and you want and you also even do everything to achieve success in life but one day you will die anyway?
Like whats the purpose of your life?
If your life from the beginning has no purpose then why are you working hard for you to have a better life then one day you will gonna lose it anyway?
Why would you have to die if there is no God?
Simply because, somebody up there who’s the owner of your life..
Right?
Ponder on that
@Enjoy and Travel The World! Well the indian god should surely die because their gods are the false gods.
But my God lives, died and was resurrected and he lives forevermore..
You can say what you want tho but I won’t be persuaded with your evidences hehe.
God is wise.. he knows that you guyz will come to destroy christians beliefs with physical evidences and so he built a foundation which is faith wherein we could have a relationship with God through faith.
Faith is the main based of christianity..
Thats why no matter what evidences you have, it won’t be disprove.
So I am sorry about that sir!
@Enjoy and Travel The World! you are right about this world is not following God because this is a sinful world.
But because of Gods love he intervened here in this world to pick us up as his chosen people.
Fair enough hehe
@Enjoy and Travel The World! you’re right its 2020 you need to wake up that you are living in sin thats why you need God hehe..
You think I didn’t grow up thats why you said its 2020 already and I’m believing in an unseen God?
Well thats your opinion then so be it.
But also I can say its already 2020 and yet you’ve wasted many chances to know God hehe
You are like a person in the Bible thats has eyes but cannot see because you’ve been blinded by the Devil and with ur own selfish pride..
Nope not only that he throws them in hell. If you don’t want to go repent and accept Jesus Christ but people want to complain instead
That's so silly because are you saying if you deny God and don't believe he is God or don't love him. You would want him to force you into existing with him eternally?
takmaps “force” you mean free will you can choose to go to Heaven or hell
@@ezekielguy402 yes free will because you choose to be with God forever or without him forever (which is what hell is)
takmaps hell is a separation from God
@@ezekielguy402 👍🏾
"What would it take for you to believe god is immoral?"
I love how Frank Turek wrote off this question as unimportant because it's something that goes straight to the heart of a lot of Christian arguments. There are many different arguments Christians use to support the morality of god. If you are like Frank Turek who defines morality as god, then god is not judged by his actions. He is judged by who he is. So, when you are looking at an action to determine if the action was right or wrong whether it's killing an innocent person, stealing, owning people as property, discrimination, etc., the question is not "Was the ACTION immoral?", but rather by WHOSE permission was the action committed?" And if people can't see why that's a bad form of morality, I don't know what to say except look at history. We as humans have realized that was a bad idea, even thousands of years ago.
_To the title of this video:_
*Is like saying, is it wrong for a boss to fire people if needed?*
Ofc not he has legal grounds to it..
And death and life ? Well, God has legal ground to that too, God is the moral creator, in other words He can do what ever He wants, righteously for sure. And God is good! Only Christ is the true way to life guys... cheers
Jons Jay Digravio, universe intentionally initially started positive or actually no bad nor good, only constant neutral perfect, what caused bad and good was sin.. because by the forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad.. as my understanding bad and good didn’t exist, *God is responsible for the fact of free will, humans are responsible for the ACT of free will* , we humans brought “bad” into this world, sin = death, but fortunately God sent His own Son to die for our sin and gain eternal salvation plus life in Heaven, and whoever believe in that will escape hell ( eternal torment ) Christ got the out realm power ;) and always wins, light will always outlaw darkness. Christ gospel ought to be spread around the world He is the answer for our darkness, that’s why is important to tell ppl about Jesus!
Ok the is on to kill since god does it. You don’t get to cherry pick. Either your god is good or not and according to theists he is the worst thing that can happen to humanity.
@@emiliouchila there wouldn't be humanity if it wasn't for God..
@@emiliouchila He is not the worse thing
E Rebull Can you explain to me why it is wrong for God to kill?
Frank didn’t answer this convincingly. It’s one of the really tough questions we have to answer as Christians
@Fred Bloggs well we have been given free will so I guess we can decide whatever we deem fit. As long as no ones hurting the other I see no conflict.
@Fred Bloggs I don’t know man, depends if you’re a glass half empty or glass half full person. For instance some people aren’t committing crimes because they fear being locked up. Had prison or police officers not existed these people would gladly do the crimes. With God it’s slightly similar, for some the motivation is not to go to hell while for others it’s to go to heaven. However when you love Christ with al, your heart you find yourself living Christ like without much effort. During Noah’s time there were no scriptures or prophets yet God expected man to live morally hence it’s very possible through the acceptance of Christ as your personal savior you can live like Christ without much though into it
Fred Bloggs You don’t have to worship God, it’s for you not for him. You won’t hurt him whether you worship him or not.
Fred Bloggs No, do not it doesn’t benefit him. But, I can/do because it benefits me . Patrick Star.
Fred Bloggs Dude, that’s your opinion, I believe in the truth. So whether you believe God exist or not. It wouldn’t mean you are not going to face him at some point in time.
This guy doesn’t get it. There has to be a ultimate standard of good, and whatever that standard is, that’s GOD.
HE IS SUCH A GOOD AND INTELLIGENT PERSON! 🙏🏻 He asks so profound questions and he wants answers which is why he seems so hurt 🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️
Strong enough evidence? 10,000+ Hebrew/Koine Greek manuscripts????????????
@Al Garnier yeah you sound silly kid
Al Garnier by that argument no part of history is true in your eyes
@@kmdunruly Dude, manuscripts are history is recorded and preserved. This was before the time of cell phone and social media. Harry potter is a fictional book
So the gospel accounts were recorded by eye witnesses and then copied thousands of times that is how we have manuscripts. There's over 5k-6k Koine Greek manuscripts alone that solidify the events actually happened.
Alex Gurren ever heard of the dead see scrolls?
And the eye witness testimony is the same evidence we hold accountable in a rule or law when court is in session
@Al Garnier Well they're not human fabrication. The eye witnesses wrote down their testimonies and then it has been preserved and distributed for almost 2,000 years and the majority text agrees with each other with 99% accuracy.
If somebody wanted to fabricate something we can just go back to the majority text and compare it with the fabrication to identify the errors.
i wish frank would stop saying "i may be wrong and have the wrong God".
bro, you know the God of abraham, issac, and jacob is the real deal. so just say it plainly.
Frank knows the correct God for certain. When he uses that phrase, he isn't saying he doubts. Rather, he is inviting the person who claims to have superior knowledge (in this case, Jeremy) to state whom they believe is better than God.
.
Another way to look at it is if Frank said, "I admit I'm not all knowing, so you are welcome to introduce me to the being or standard that you believe is more moral than the God of the Bible whom you are criticism and I will give you a fair hearing."
GOD CAN GIVE LIFE.
GOD CAN TAKE LIFE.
Prove it
@somerandom3247 have you been to a funeral? Nobody acts like they are in control on a funeral.
Let's all pray for this guy.
Those difficult questions. A much more difficult one would be how can God be good if he condemns not one soul but countless souls to eternal torment in hell? My relatives refused to accept Christ over this issue with regard to the fate of their ancestors who were not Christians.
This guy wants you to prove sugar is not sweet.
He's asking how much salt are you willing to swallow while claiming we can't judge real suger.
The moment you sin you should be dropped on the sun
Anything slower is God being slow to wrath
Fred Bloggs Where in anything the OP posted, did he say he never sinned?
Fred Bloggs I would argue that you are missing the OP’s intended point. I don’t think he intended to say he never sinned, and thus that what he posted didn’t apply to him.
I think he meant that we all sin, including he himself, and that all of us therefore deserve to be “dropped on the sun,” again, including he himself.
The point being that God is slow to anger, even though we all deserve otherwise.
Clearly.
Hardly.
@Fred Bloggs u missed the point.
0:59
Good point. There is a difference between condemning someone by a standard and pointing out an inconsistency with a standard. The difference lies in whether the presenter of the argument stands on the grounds that the standard is correct.
If someone says, as Hitchens often seemed to, that God is immoral and rejects him on that basis, the ‘stealing from God’ argument certainly applies, as the moral law has been invoked.
The consistency argument is context specific (depends on what is being claimed to be inconsistent), should have no tone of moral condemnation so as to avoid appealing to the standard, and the only thing being ‘stolen from God’ is the presumption that consistency is good.
Theres nothing yu can do to change someones belief.
God bless us all🙏🏻
i ve been there then i found out it was my urge to sin.a.k.a having fun in living like i want to.
If people sinned and nobody ever died God wouldn’t be just. Because God is merciful and slow to anger people are shocked at the few occasions when he judges swiftly.
The issue is: should mankind follow God's examples of justice? Contrary to what many people might think, answer is probably no.
Shannon85 the fact is for the most part we actually do follow God’s example of justice. When a person is caught stealing we don’t cut off his hand; when a woman is caught in adultery we don’t kill her; we allow convicted criminals to remain alive for years before carrying out the death sentence in hopes that they will have time to consider their ways and get right with God, etc. etc. The whole concept of mercy in our society (assuming you’re American) comes from Christ.
@@poliincredible770 What does God do when he wipes out mankind with a flood? The answer is that he kills one and all for the allegedly wrongdoing of some. God kills the firstborn for the wrongdoing of others. He orders the death of those who work on the Sabbath. He demands death for sorcery. I admit that someone with an imagination can concoct ways to make that kind of justice seem in some way acceptable. That's what Frank does. But in our world, it God's justice is not mankind's justice. And that is because we do not see the Biblical god as a source of right and wrong.
Shannon85
People who think God is some vindictive judge looking for the first offense to pounce on aren’t reading the Bible. When we consider the flood we see that God waited and warned for decades before he finally carried out his sentence. Then he promised never to flood the earth again. You say he “killed one and all for the alleged wrongdoing of some.” What means do you have of knowing who was or wasn’t guilty? We know many ancient cultures practiced cannibalism, child sacrifice, religious prostitution, self-mutilation, etc. Besides, respectfully speaking your premise is observably flawed. The point of the story is that God, in his mercy, didn’t destroy humanity but preserved mankind through Noah and his family.
Regarding the Sabbath, again you’re missing the point. God wanted his people to have a day of rest. Legalism robbed God’s people of that joy but Jesus came to restore the point of the Sabbath; fellowship with God. That is why today you don’t see Christians stoning people for working on Sundays (or Saturdays). Again we are actually following God’s example and the world is better off for it.
Regarding death for sorcery. Christ teaches us to pray for our enemies. That is why Christians no longer are expected to kill people for sorcery. Through Christ we are now aware that we are not fighting against flesh and blood, but against spiritual forces. So we are following God’s example by praying for salvation and deliverance for people who oppose God.
You say “God’s justice is not mankind’s justice.” We should be grateful that God’s justice is not mankind’s justice. We see mankind’s justice in places like North Korea and Venezuela where survival of the fittest is carried out to its logical conclusion. We live such a sheltered existence in America that we assume the freedoms we have here is normal. In fact what we have is very uncommon in the world (not to mention world history) and it is the result of the overwhelming influence of the Judeo-Christian worldview which teaches us to love our neighbors as ourselves, and to treat others as we would like to be treated. This is so because we actually DO see the biblical God as the source of right and wrong.
@@poliincredible770 You are blind to the injustices in the Bible, injustices perpetrated by God. The man in the video was finally able to see. His behavior probably did not want will not change in any manner. He simply took a different view of the god of the Bible. a different view due to critical thinking.
He claimed he left the faith because he wasn't convinced by the evidence, but judging by the tone of his questions it's pretty obvious that he's just angry at God and as a result has chosen to rebel. This isn't new, It's Luciferianism. I pray he has a change of heart later on.
Is God ever wrong? Answer: no.
1 Samuel 2:2
“There is none holy like the Lord; there is none besides you; there is no rock like our God.
1 Peter 1:15-16
But as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”
Isaiah 57:15
For thus says the One who is high and lifted up, who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: “I dwell in the high and holy place, and also with him who is of a contrite and lowly spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly, and to revive the heart of the contrite.
Isaiah 6:3
And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!”
1 Peter 1:16
Since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”
Psalm 96:9
Worship the Lord in the splendor of holiness; tremble before him, all the earth!
Leviticus 19:2
“Speak to all the congregation of the people of Israel and say to them, You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy.
Ephesians 1:4
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Steve Parks Just wanted to remind you that you should also have logical, secular answers. When debating someone who refuses to believe that the Bible is true, quoting scripture will not be enough to make them pause in thought as they will not accept it as a worthy reference. Luckily, God gave us logic so that we could do this.
@@TheScopeGlint my thing is scripture, brother. That's my strength. That's what I know so that's what I give. In all honesty it is scripture that is the ultimate authority and if people refuse to listen to scripture, you can give them any amount of logic you want. It won't matter.
@@TheScopeGlint all in all, even the logic you may present is ultimately trying to lead people back to scripture. Without God's word, we have no argument. God bless 🙏
Steve Parks I do not mean scripture has no place, only that God did not only give us His word. He gave us His creation. The Bible even says there is enough evidence of a Creator in nature. In which case, logic leads to wonder, then wonder leads to the Word. And there are cases that require Word alone. As my former teacher says, “Law to the proud, grace to the humble.” The Commandments for those who believe they do not need saving, the story of Christ for those who see their own sinful nature.
Is us, two different types of people made by God with different ways of thinking. Combined (logic and scripture) they are unstoppable. Have a great day brother, hopefully one day I will have your knowledge of scripture as well.
@@TheScopeGlint God bless you too my friend 🙂☝🏻🙏 much love in Christ
Why do you presume a god has to be good? When we explore space and find primitive life on a planet. Will we always be divine and good? Why do you expect more for yourself than we provide for other species within nature? Alot of picking and choosing from a "man in the sky" to a divine spirit to the standard of good..with this logic you can dismiss any argument. We get nowhere. Look into the ancient Sumerian text - from which the bible is based. And look at the "sky people" and the ancient depictions of literal beings. There is also a divine source. But if you worship the god of the old testament. ie: Sumerian history. It is clearly literal beings. You sound more Gnostic in believe mixed with a willingness to blend the beliefs where needed? Do you belief in a literal god man. or the divine source of everything. - its a circular presentation without more specifics. "my god is better than yours its infinite and everything" seems abit of a cop out when addressing what the bible and what the ancient text actually say.
Fred Bloggs when has God shown to be imperfect or vindictive?
i am sorry for the guy because i know it's sometimes easy due to all pain and evil, and/or intellectual thinking to stumble in your faith and to doubt. you start questioning everything, including God, and that's a super difficult and depressing situation to be in. you don't want that, but it happens due to a variety of reasons, like watching innocent people or children being raped or suffering or murdered, or whatever. may God draws him near to Himself and bathe him in His love.
@Cross Examined
So we're property? Welcome to Islam Frank Turek, I always have the Innate feeling that you were a secret Muslim.
Straw man.
@@Sawa607
🤣🤣 Ok How so?
@AllGTG
At 03:27 "Free Will"? If your god is true we are about as Free as chickens are in a Chicken Farm.
@@XDRONIN Are you complaining because God hasn't given you angel's wings?
@@pescatoralpursuit1726
nope, just congratulations to Frank on joining Islam.
It's so Sad when someone like Dr. Turek sacrifices his morality to justify immortality in the bible!!!
Man, I was so hoping for an answer that mentions how we don't realize how "slow to anger" God really is towards rebellious creatures - the fact that He didn't wipe out the first man after the first sin. The fact that He continued to make a way for man to be right with Him throughout entire corrupt generations. Maybe the definition the guy tied to "slow to anger" was very narrow and subjective.
Would also be interesting to hear how he would define "evidence", saying that their's no evidence in all those big evidence based books.
Such an interesting conversation. Praying for Him 🙏
All I hear and see is pride,pride, pride. That's why he left the faith!
And i see is judge, judge, judge.
@@goldenboy12ish John 7:24
Jeremy (perhaps unintentionally) used a witcher's tactic at the beginning of his question, tearing down Frank's confidence by saying that it was when he read all of Frank's stuff is when he decided that he thought God wasn't real. Not sure the validity of that claim, but even if so, it's possible that Jeremy is under strong attack and satan is actually strongly interacting with him, feeding him with very sly questions to cause incredible doubt. I mean this from the bottom of my heart, if Jeremy, or anyone else would like to ask me questions about certain doubts they have, please feel free to let me know. We can Email or Skype or something.
This is the first time I've seen Frank without a good answer. A lot because he doesn't know the Hebrew Bible and so doesn't understand what slow to anger means. And also seems like he doesn't fully understand the reasoning behind how God was righteous to take certain people's lives.
So first I want to note that there is of necessity to make a very clear distinction between killing and murder. In the scriptures, even men were allowed to kill when done under the proper form of government and only according to the righteousness of God. This was not murder. And The Taking of the sinner's life directly effected the lives of the people around them in a Soul Saving manner. It is of absolute righteous necessity that certain evil men died so that wickedness does not prevail and cause more to stumble and fall and suffer the loss of their souls. It is so incredibly good and righteous that God would take a life, despite how much he loves that soul and does not wish him eternal punishment, in order to save the souls of so many more. He does not love taking the life of a wicked man, but painfully endures that death for the salvation of many others. To put it into modern terms, he makes the hard decisions. He is like the military General that understands perfect righteousness and judgment and knows how to choose the lesser of two tragedies. His heart aches so badly over the death of every Wicked Man, even when it was him that, out of necessity, ordered the death. Yes, God is God! And his good ways are written, so he can not turn around and do otherwise. If he did, he would indeed no longer be Good. Good is not an abstract standard, it is a standard that has been written, and anyone that transgressed what is written, is a transgressor of Good, including God. But never has he once. Not as the Father on the throne, and not as flesh on the earth. He has never once transgressed the written standard of Good.
I think he is just confusing the word "good" with "pleasing to people". God is the standard by which we can judge what is good or not good. It's not like saying "ooh, those eggs were good!"
I like the young man at one level. But, in the end, he comes across as arrogant, self-centered, and thinks he has the ability to judge God.
Buck Young I disagree he's asking a legitimate question which frank was dismissing and brushing over.
The question being inferring that therefore morally is defined upon gods actions alone. And therefore if God is "good" a label we use to characterise him, then any actions regardless of how extreme they are are justified because God does it!
Therefore the moral word "good" becomes essentially ARBITRARY to any action God deems necessary. Hence OUR DEFINITION of good and bad is very much negligible and merely subject to the whim of what God decides he wants to do, which we consequently define as His character.
And ultimately, for this reason to use the word "good" or even "bad" is pointless as it has no earthly standard and rigidity, it is merely a label we attach to whatever God decides to do.
He is just deceived, period!🤷🏼♀️
Ilse M shut up, pleeeease. I don't see how this comment is beneficial to this comment section except to serve your own private expression band opinion.
I mean, looking from other perspective, if everything that happens in this world is because of God, it means God kills almost everyone who has ever lived on Earth indiscriminately (with some exceptions like Elijah or Henoch). The difference is in how and when they die. Another difference is that even when the body has died, the soul lives still.
Losin brain cells here
What's making you lose brain cells
@@samirpernell2136 I'm assuming. Because this conversation is getting unnecessarily complicated.
Claims to have done his research, still believes none of it is true. Sounds like he didn't do any research at all.
Everyone who does research doesn't have to come to the same conclusion.
@@ADMusic1999 right...just like the Jurors in the OJ trial. The evidence presented was not enough to prove his his conviction. So OJ is innocent and there's not enough proof that god exists. Right, my Athiest friends?
@@nanap1070 I was born in '99 so I don't know much about the OJ trial, but I do know that you are innocent until proven guilty. That's because the person making the claim (i.e. that someone is guilty of something) must come up with the evidence. If you are making a claim that God exists, you come up with the evidence.
Reimu Daze,
Are you kidding? Try reading Numbers 31:15-41 where God commanded the slaughter of the Midianite women and children and had Moses' men spare the virgin women children to keep for themselves. At the end of verse 41 it states " as the Lord had commanded.
1 Samuel 15:3 has God demanding the slaughter of the Amalekite infants. How do you tap dance for this?
@@ADMusic1999 the evidence is there. You either believe the evidence or you don't. Time does not change the evidence...just like the OJ murder trial. You can go back and look at the evidence for OJ commiting those murders. You need not have to have lived at the time OJ killed those people...so too you not need to be there to see the Universe was brought forth by God.
Well done you held yourself to Turek's distraction. He didn't even want to answer your question and I like how he was trying to get you to highlight a specific story. That would have given him more opportunities to distract you from the point by expanding unnecessarily away from the point. This is dishonesty at least he could have said he didn't know but then it would have shown up a loop hole looòool.
His problem in this video is not mainly about God is good... but his problem is God's punishments and justification.
Turek is dancing around the subject. If murder is wrong? Is it wrong no matter who commits it? And what warning did God give the people of the Earth before drowning them? What warning did he give to Sodom and Gomorrah?
Why, if God exists, must he be perfect or benevolent? Why can't he be one with imperfections, where did we get the idea that God is synonymous with perfection?
Luke 14:26, Matthew 10:34-36, proverbs 30:6, Isaiah 45:7, Luke 16:17
God doesn't have to prove anything to us. He is God, He is Lord, He is our creator, He reigns in the heavens and on earth, He can do as He pleases.
So many people, like this gentleman, think God has, or should have, the same mindset as mankind does, but that could never be the case because He wouldn't be God if He had the same mindset as we do.
God is all knowing, we are not. His ways are above ours every single day.
This guy was never a Christian and wants things His way and not bow down to the one and only Creator.
I asked this same question in the comments section of another video : why would god need to kill anyone? If he is all powerful, as you say, then he has EVERY OTHER OPTION. Why end someones earthly existence, when that person could easily be re educated, rehabilitated, by a personal, unambiguous visit from the god of all? Spare me the talk about divine justice and free will, a god who can speak a universe into existence could enact a more useful justice without violating free will.
_For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar_ - Romans 3:3-4
One of the best explanation on understanding God I found in Deut 29:29. One of the most emotionally charged books in the Old Testament, for me so far is Jeremiah, I cried through most of it, the pain I felt from reading Gods responses to Jeremiah and the reasons for his ultimate decision in exiling the Jews, made me look at our society and how nothing much has changed in so far as the human conditions. I read it out loud and very carefully. What I have found is that, I am more thankful than I can say for our Lord Jesus Christ, to understand that God came to us, He died for us is humbling. So yes, God is good, wholly good and righteous. Just read Geneses 12-24 the story of Abram/Abraham, because of something I heard that blew my mind, so I read it, slowly, again mind blown, Our Lord was Physically there with Abram/Abraham, why had I not seen that before? But there it was in black and white. I love how scripture always has something new to teach, it’s amazing really.
Accepting that "God is good" is one of the hardest things to do. Accepting that God is good and knowing I don't always do what God does, then that means I'm not good, and therefore I'm definitely NOT God. And that's a tough pill for anyone to swallow.
.
We all want to be the captain of our ship, the grand poobah, the head cheese. God reserves that for himself alone, and I'm glad he does. The world would be a much more messed up place if I were in charge. I'm not sure we'd even still all be here. Praise be to God that He is Good and He is Lord over all!
This man thinks too highly of people and too highly of himself. Every person who lived, or lives, or will live, deserves hell. But Grace is extended to the humble at heart. Where's his humility. Being selfrighteous is the sin of man. A wise man knows his heart is evil, and cries out to God for mercy. He does not shake his fist at God and call Him immoral.
In regards to Uzzah, I don't think God just killed Uzzah for touching the ark just like that. I think Uzzah died because the ark of the covenant contained God's very presence. And anyone or anything that came into the holy presence of God would automatically be consumed by his holiness. That is why the priests and the most high priest had very specific instructions about going into the temple because God's presence was there. Its just like when Jesus comes again, those who betrayed him will die because of the brightness of his coming.
Only those with the blood of Jesus would be able to withstand God's holy presence
To me it seems he is unconvinced because of his perception and understanding of God. God (according to Christianity) is an eternal, timeless, spaceless, immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing being, from which physical reality itself and all life within it originate. Once you have that understanding of God, it becomes pretty clear that obviously the same moral standards and limited understanding that we have as humans, cannot be applicable to God.
2 Samuel 6:6-7 also talks about why Uzza was smote. In the KJV, it says he was smote for his error, which was translated from the Hebrew word for “irreverence.” The definition for irreverence is a lack of respect for people or things that are generally taken seriously. Also, the ark was supposed to be carried on poles as God intended in Exodus, Deuteronomy, and Numbers, not in carts like the one King David had built and was transporting it on at the time that Uzza got smote. So they knew better, but they were being disrespectful and blasé blah about God’s commands. And I’m sure God could see their hearts. So He made an example out of them disrespecting His word and things He considers sacred. I hope that makes sense. God bless 💕 Edit: very nice young man; funny and respectful.