Sam is actually the most innocent of the group. She outwardly tried to connect and help Josh after Hannah and Beth disappear. She also knew about the prank on Hannah and tried to find her to stop her.
I love Sam too, bu what about Chris? They have been friends since school and Chris is aware that Josh is taking medication. Sure, later he helps Mike to tie up Josh, but in his defense: He went through hell that night. Seeing his best friend die and having to choose wether to take his own life or the life of his crush.
@@flufflewarrior Also Chris was never apart of the prank. He was there that night, but was passed out across from Josh. Sam realized it was cruel, yet she also was the one that initiated the prank on Hannah, which I assume is her best friend, hence the hesitation and the immediate attempt to comfort.
One thing that I think a lot of people in the comments section seem to overlook is that Josh's actions were probably inspired by his parents' movies. They specialised in gritty horror movies with all manner of special effects. It's hard to say how much of it he came up with on his own, and whether he was capable of seeing the damaging effects of his actions when he grew up around horror movie sets.
I mean to be fair if they were good parents, they should have tried to keep their children to an appropriate level of creepy. Not doing that could lead to nightmares/yes eventual desensitization. Then again they are absentee for the entire game and raised 3 kids two of which seem maladjusted socially. So you could be right.
“The true villain is a system that doesn’t know enough or doesn’t care enough” that hit home. I for one felt this way about josh and the story from my very first play through. Mental illness is a real thing and instead of helping most ppl including those in doctor positions, just write them off as “crazy” it’s so sad
I'd say instead of helping most people cave in and give them whatever they want to "feel better". Instead of actually helping people we just throw medication and irreversible surgeries and slap them on the back telling them they're better. Sad stuff
@@tylerlackey1175 well sometimes medication and surgeries is exactly the thing people need to get better, having a society that accepts open feelings for EVERYONE and that doesn’t stigmatize conditions would also help tremendously
@@Tw0Dots I’m talking about real life dude not this game😒….. but since u mention it, there are too many ppl out here with a “not my problem” attitude. The same attitude that sees someone in trouble and won’t help
Perfect description of Josh's schizophrenia. Until Dawn has one of the most beautiful depictions of untreated schizophrenia that I have ever seen in a video game. That said, nothing about what you said is a theory. The game makes it pretty clear that Josh has untreated schizophrenia if you pick up all the clues
@@kevinhoskins9320 from joshs perspective it was less about their deaths and more about how they felt before dying, when josh asks them how they felt he didnt go "how did it feel thinking you were going to die?" he asks "how does it feel to be humiliated and betrayed?"
@@kevinhoskins9320 all of you saying that But if you were Josh and you had that kinda of love for your sister that the people that you thought were your friends caused your sisters to die yeah you would look for revenge and traumatized them Josh had a psychologist who talk him I to that and made his condition much worse You can't blame Josh blame the others and the psychologist
@@kevinhoskins9320 Remember when he was hallucinating in chapter 10 and he kept saying "you can't tell me what to do", then later gave in and started saying "I trust you"? Maybe his sisters' ghosts in his head guilt tripped him into doing the prank to avenge them... coz he also said "not again"
In this game, you're the latest director to work with Glass Eye Pix, the production company of Larry Fessenden (who is the co-writer of the game's story and the actor of the Flamethrower Guy). Essentially, the game play through is you making the final cut of a feature film.
4 years later and this game is still one of my favorite horror games. Sam and Josh were my favorite characters of the bunch. All the others excluding Matt could've died and I wouldn't have cared. (Off-topic.... but isn't it crazy how much the logo has changed? Wow)
The true about the towel is that it was a hologram thus it defines all logic as it is just light.you are welcomed for thanking me for not making another simple filled video matpat (now you have to make good theory and not some filler)
As a Paranoid Schizophrenic- as I know to believe when on my medications- this made me cry. Finally, someone who understands that I’m not a psychopath at heart. Someone who finally understands the value of love and care. I’m so done with people telling me to rot in an Asylum and to be treated by doctors like Doctor Hill. Josh was the only true character who I understand. The hallucinations (Psychosis), the behavior that I never remember doing... all of it. Thank you.
Morgan Bathgate hope you’re doing good, you’re an awesome person with a big heart and an intelligent mind. People who don’t see that aren’t worth any of your time.
Josh was my favourite character from the start and it angered me so much when UA-camrs would always give him the awful scenarios. I always wanted him and Sam to get together so badly and I was so upset when he died but I could tell he was mentally ill and it wasn’t his fault about what happened. I’m glad I found this video because I just thought everyone else hated him.
@@maxy6749 I think a lot of people have learned that any mental illness that results in violent behavior is a result of being a socio/psychopath. And it's kind of sad how many use socio- and psychopathy interchangeably.
Josh's story is so heartbreaking, and something I can relate to. I have BPD and mental health professionals don't like treating patients with borderline personality disorder. We're seen as too difficult, too hard to change. Some doctors plain out think it's either us "just wanting attention" or it plain out is dismissed as existing. BPD is real in my life, it is a hard disease to deal with, and no medicine can fix it like my bipolar can be treated. But I'm not impossible to fix. I've made a lot of progress on my own. In a system where diseases outside of the simple idea of how mental health should like, people with more complicated disorders get shoved to the side or shoved out completely. All my life all they told me I had was depression. But after many suicide attempts they finally determined I had BPD and bipolar along with my PTSD. I've been getting better with the right meds because of it, sadly Josh never got that. And it's so heartbreaking to see unfold 💔
Everyone: involved in a prank that kills two girls Everyone: lol it’s fine it was just a prank Josh:pranks the people who killed his sisters, pranks don’t cause anyone’s death Everyone: JOSH IS THE CRAZY ONE HERE!
@@el9250 But, it kinda does in the case of Schizophrenia, as mistreatment can lead to horrific effect, and cause the inability to distinguish reality from delusion. Many people who suffer from the effects are paranoid, and attack or harm people for fear of their own safety, as they falsely believe that they're in danger. In this case, he was deluded that what he did was a harmless prank with no real problems, when clearly, it was not. In this case, if he were to have lived, the best thing to have done was to send him to get help, put him on rehabilitation, and then properly treat him. His pranks did lead to indirect deaths, but I don't know how direct you could call them. On the other hand, the others have no excuse for what they did. The death of two people, even by accident, would be counted as first degree manslaughter.
@@Endershock1678 Yes he did have that but that still doesn't excuse his actions. You could say he thought it was harmless but that does not change the fact that he probably gave at least 6 people varying levels of PTSD. Just because you are mentally ill doesn't mean that you are free from every wrong thing you've done. I do not think he is a particularly bad person, but I'm tired of people painting him as a hero when in reality he was a tragedy.
@@el9250 I'm not saying he's free, I'm just saying a lot of it can't be viewed in the same way. As I said earlier, he won't get away scott free, but he should be reformed and put in prohibition. The rest meanwhile don't deserve that luxuary. I don't think my issue with your comment was that you said he has blame (he does), but the comment gives the feeling of he is equal in blame to everyone else, which I don't think he is.
Yup that was flamethrower guys trap for catching the wendigos you learn that he used a lot of those to lure them into the sanetorium during the story. It's a pretty genius trap the one thing wendigos are intrested in eating moving specifically because they can't see it otherwise.
Josh was the only character there who actually deserved a happy ending. Obviously Hannah and Beth deserved one too but they died and kicked off the game. And I think Ashley wasn't there when Hannah and Beth went missing. One of the girls wasn't there when she went missing but as for everyone else they most certainly did not deserve a happy ending. Nothing Josh did was as bad as what they did as a "prank" to Hannah. Legit. What they did to her....it's completely unforgivable I'm pretty sure it's s a and illegal as well. They secretly filmed someone undressing without their consent under false pretenses. That's so beyond f***** up. And I really didn't like how Josh was painted as a psychopath and crazy to pull all of these elaborate pranks when that's exactly what those douchebags deserved. Honestly they deserved a lot f****** worse than what he did to them. So it really frustrated me how the devs so clearly painted him as the bad guy who didn't deserve a happy ending.
@@WhitneyDahlin ashley was there, when watching the video from the night a year ago, chris says "i forgot you were such a willing participant." the only one not involved in the prank was sam lol
As someone who takes both antidepressants and antipsychotics let me just say that antidepressants can aggravate schizotypal symptoms if they aren't being countered by an appropriate dose of antipsychotics so not only was Josh being treated for an illness he didn't have, the one he did have was being worsened by the wrong treatment
Chris was most tortured because it was Josh's way for Chris to make a move on Ashley. Earlier in the game, he says the only way you two would get together is through a traumatic experience. Which is exactly what happened (if you don't piss off Ashley that is)
But also in Josh's wikia, as well as somewhere in the game it's said that Josh's greatest fear is being absolutely alone. And when Hannah leaves him alive in the caves, he's left alone with absolutly nothing but a corpse and mental health issues, still suffering a lot. And in all of that, with the multiple spirits of Wendigos surrounding him, he went cannibalistic like his sister. And turned into a wendigo, which is sad because he can't be with his sisters in death until someone frees him
I think the bear trap the caught Mike wasn't a trap set by the psycho (aka Josh) but instead a trap set by the flamethrower guy to catch a Wendigo. It said in his journal that he would set traps in the mountains with human limbs (which he said were not needed anymore by the dead corpses in the mourge) to catch the Wendigo monsters so he wouldn't have to kill them and set their spirits free to possess another victim.
According to the lore of the game there are only a set amount of Wendigo 'allowed.' As long as no one else takes up cannibalism on the mountain then it would all be fine, but as seen in the Josh lives ending Josh has become possessed and it implies he killed the police in the mines, so the problem is going to start right back up again with no Flamethrower Guy to contain them. And it's implied that after he killed the Alpha Wendigo that it then possessed Hannah when she ate Beth. That's why he locked them up rather than killed them the majority of the time.
@@CarTa3 According to the flamethrower guy's diary the spirit(curse)of the wendigo was first unleashed when the miners came to mine the mountain,when those 30 miners got trapped and 12-15 of them eventually escaped they were already possessed because hunger and desperation drove them to cannibalism.When these 12-15 miners went to the sanatorium they were already on the changing phase,that's why the doctor there locked them up and wanted to study them,eventually those miners escaped from their cells and killed all the others except the doctor who commited suicide(kinda).ALTHOUGH there is something that most of you forget.If you see the ''events of the past'' video,the flamethrower dude speaks off that the original wendigo spirit called ''makkapitew'' existed all along and he finally killed it the night hannah and beth died(from the looks of it i believe he possessed one of the tribe member that existed even before the miners went to the mountain so it was centuries old).In conclusion the curse of the wendigo was on the mountain all along,the miners triggered it and continued to exist even after the events of until dawn(well possibly,it depends if josh survives or not)
ELITE SAVAGE I mean the prank wasn’t to have them walk out in the cold and fall off a cliff. Hannah overreacted and ran out which led to Beth following her
@@datboisus3981 I don't think she overreacted. She was in a state of shock and just wanted to be away from them and instead of giving her space they ran towards her laughing. No one but Beth cared enough about her feelings to try to go and make her feel better. Also them mocking her by saying she can't take a joke when they had intent to record her getting undressed to hook up with some guy. The prank was to make her feel bad and record her embarrassment. Her running away to a place that they couldn't embarrass her any further isn't over reacting
And by happy ending I mean josh confessing his feelings to Sam (come on guys we all know this ship’s a thing) and then being arrested, going to jail or a mental asylum. The end :))
As someone with systematic schizophrenia, I really appreciate that the game devs put him in as a character, so many people just tell me to back off or that I’m insane and I should be locked up but I’m content that there’s people like that out there. I just wanted to say thanks to the game devs and to matpat for spreading awareness for psychosis, and for the cool theory keep it up and I’ll try to as well
That's awful. Some people don't understand that the brain is complex, and that just because someone's brain works very different doesn't make them crazy or something. Sorry you had/have to go through that, dude.
You don't have to answer if this is rude or anything, but I've always wondered about if theres anything thatll seem fake about your hallucinations (like if a visual hallucination is blurry or if an audio hallucination is echoey) or if your brain ignores that stuff?
@@memelescream4796 as someone who has both hallucinated and heard many a testimony from people with schizophrenia, hallucinations seem very real and scary, the only clues you can get that they’re hallucinations is the fact that nobody else hears, sees, or remembers these things, and if you have a low self image or deteriorated mind set then you probably won’t notice if something you’re hallucinating is unrealistic (low self image because I’ve known a lot of people to hallucinate that their friends are insulting them)
@@octosimp1717 question, ive heard some people say that if someone suspects theyre hallucinating, they should take out their phone and try to record it to see if its real. would you say thats a good method? or do you believe it wouldnt work in most cases?
Which is crazy because Josh fucks with him and Ashley the most with his "pranks" while the others are actually being terrorized by the wendigos. Makes Josh seem more like a douche for messing with his only one true friend who didn't even take part in the prank...
Yami Wolf just theorizing but I think that was Josh's messed up way of trying to help Chris. When they first meet up at the cabin Josh tells Chris to act on his feelings for Ashley and make a move already; when Sam is helping Josh with the boiler he flat out says he thinks a tragic/traumatic event would be needed to bring Chris and Ashley together. Since he doesn’t intend to kill or seriously injure anyone, and he thinks his psycho games are ultimately just a prank, he uses his plans to give Chris chances to look good/prove his love for Ashley. He goes too far of course, but with his condition he couldn’t really see that.
WarriorAuranae yeah i noticed that too, after the comment about chris not making a move without a gun to his head and then acting out the scenario literally djwjd, wingman of the century
Josh chose his friends that could ''laugh off the prank''. He purposefully chose the people closest to him because he thought they would forgive him (easily) for the little prank he made for them. also yes Josh is wingmanning for Chris. they just need a life-death situation that brings them together.
Eric Moreira Actually Sam was on her way to stop it, it looks like. Also, you can choose to save Josh as Chris, but the saw blade always goes towards Josh, no matter your choice.
hey matpat, this video is suuuper old, but i guess i never got around to seeing it. from the point of someone who suffers from abulatory schizophrenia, the way you put my mental illness made me really happy. most schizophrenics like me are seen as monsters and crazy killers. im literally just a 17 year old kid on a ton of meds, that's all!! i do have delutions and episodes where i simply can't function, but i would never be lead to hurt anyone. this video is amazing! thanks for not showing the holywood version of something that affects my life everyday.
Hey, wanna hear what else MatPat here said? He says that having mental illness excuses you from the crime of psychologically torturing teens! Ain't that wonderful?
@@NeroCM You just said to a real person, with real struggles, that he could become like a character who tortured his friends. You insulted a 17 years old based on his mental state, and you still think you're one of the good guys?
I always thought this had to be on purpose. Like they could have been the actors look like actual teenagers if they'd wanted to, so I felt like this was meant to be a nod to how 90s slasher horrors always had older actors playing highschoolers.
I've ALWAYS felt this way about Josh!! And the other characters are so incredibly quick to blame him but NO ONE talks about how responsible they are for the deaths of Hannah and Beth! I feel extremely bad for Josh... As a matter of fact, he's my favorite character.
@@semperfi2314 well shooting ashley isn't evil. I did it to save her from death by sawblades (in case the psycho didn't stop his trap after chris would shoot himself)
@@leonpaelinck No indeed i don't think whatever choice you'll make can be considered as evil in a such situation - i just bounced on the fact that Chris can't kill anyone by saying the he can just try. The whole sawblade thing is here to press you to make a decision. That worked quite well with me on my first playthrough - fortunately, i decided to shoot Chris so Ashley wouldn't leave him outside later. And unfortunately he didn't even make it to the door i missed the last QTE and hannah decapitated him X(
@@semperfi2314 How would you like to die? A) shot once in the head with minimal pain B) slowly getting your head split by blades Obvious choice for me and I see where Leon was going with this. Also how did you not make it to the door? It’s ez.
@@MonkeyGoatLicker Actually i prefer death by sawblades than getting killed by my bf AND crush who told me 10 seconds ago "i'll get you out of this, i won't let you die". But as i said before, i was talking about Chris's incapacity to kill off other characters. Not about whether if it's correct or not to shoot Ashley. That's it
You know, if you think about it, Chris is kind of innocent. He didn’t take part in the prank as he was seen passed out with Josh. Also, depending on your choices, I would argue that Chris is the nicest guy in the group
I know this was two years ago, but Josh probably wouldn't know either of those two things, assuming he didn't try asking what everyone's roles in the prank afterwards - He could have been just simply grudging in silence while not knowing Sam and Chris had absolutely nothing to do with it.
I think it's also worth mentioning that the Wendigo is symbolic of Josh's inability to escape his disorder. Josh is killed directly by a monster that is born from desperation. The Wendigo was unleashed when humans were forced to eat their fellow humans because they had no other options. Josh was forced to endure the results of misguided medication. I think that makes this story all the more interesting.
The flamethrower guy is the writer of the game.. He has also directed a movie called The Wendigo.. He died in the game because of Chris.. During the scene, Chris comes in between him and Hannah.. So he stops the flames allowing Hannah to get the upper hand..
Really? Kind of feel the opposite. He saw the two fall down into the mines and never went down to check and see if they survived. He couldn't have been afraid to go down there as he saved Emily down in the mines a year later, when there was actually a windego threat (the girl he DIDN'T save a year ago). I'd assume he had the miners all locked up by then as he only mentions going after one of them that had eluded him in that tape. He kills it and then. . . leaves?.
@@jsjeshwjufuwugduwudwie2052 Assuming that is the case, he should still have reported it, to the local police. Even if he is a wanted man, what can they do to arrest him for murder without any evidence? Now assuming he would have been arrested .In this case, he should have a left a note in the nearby police station. is that really hard. He is usually seen hanging around cable car situation without any reason than to stalk the teens. He should instead have used the stealthiness to good use and reported the case through some sort of message to the local authorities .
The hand trap that resulted in the removal of Mark's fingers wasn't designed by Josh. It was a moving hand designed by Mr. Exposition himself (the unnamed hunter) to trap a Spider Zombie, because they sense movement. It was also mentioned in his journal that he removed dead human limbs (since they didn't need them) to aid in luring and trapping SpiderZombies. I just realized this while watching through a playthrough.
Gaming Frenzy Chris and Josh were both passed out, Chris was Josh’s best friend, Sam was Hannah’s best friend and she went to go look for Hannah instead of participate in the prank
yes they were it wasn't a prank it was hazing Hannah its so clear shes only friends with them cause of her brother and sister other then that they don't like her. plus how you tell an older brother we prank'd you sister and we lost them sorry
I'm gonna throw something else into this. Mike and Jess, the two people most responsible for the prank, are sent to the guest cabin while the rest of this goes down. if not for the wendigos, those two would have spent a quiet night together while the rest were tortured.
WalkthroughHorde There is a theory Josh was trying to hook Chris up with Ashley, also Josh had no idea, he couldn't know who helped and who didn't, why would you say "I murdered your sisters" Sam probably would be linked to it no matter what, because she wasn't good enough to stop it anyway.
Wait, I don't think Sam should be included on the "Bad People" list due to the fact that she tried to stop the prank from happening but was a second too late. This is why Hannah saves her from the other Weindigo at the end of the game. Even though you can blow everyone up if you choose wrong Sam has done nothing wrong. But hey, That's just my theory guys. :-P
I have a very close friend who's only now being diagnosed with schizophrenia, after having a diagnosis for ocd and manic depression for about 5 years and yea understanding mental illnesses is so so so important
It was really sad to see majority of players hate Josh throughout the entire game. I can understand towards the beginning, but it’s even sadder when people still hate him after discovering his mental illness. The poor guy truly can’t help it. Like Matt said, the best decision you can make is to forgive Josh.
j h I'm sorry, but I disagree. I have mental illnesses, but it's not an excuse for being an asshole. I don't hate Josh, but he's still responsible for his actions and his irresponsibility and sadism, both characteristics which make me dislike him.
I don't really hate him, because I thought it was just because of his sisters that's why he did those things, and he also didn't have any connections with the wendigos. And also the fact that it's Rami Malek, I can't hate him.
Red Firefly oh, so you're schizophrenic and recently stopped taking your meds? Because that's what Josh is. If you really had a mental illness you'd realise they're not really similar to each other, and that the withdrawal from your meds can throw you through one hell of a god damn loop. And if you want to talk about responsibility for our actions; He didn't kill anyone. He was never going to. Sure it's fucked up to put your "friends" through psychological torture but that's exactly what those "friends" did to his sister. He might not be the "good guy" but he's definitely not the "bad guy"
It's a gross exaggeration to refer to the other characters' mean joke as "torture." Am I excusing the fact that they did it? No. But it's just the kind of mean-spirited, dumb, poorly planned stuff that vapid teenagers do. It did result in death, but that wasn't the intended outcome, nor was it something I imagine they could possibly have foreseen happening. It's funny, though, that you choose to ignore that and instead emphasize how *Josh* didn't meant for anyone to die. What Josh ultimately set out to do, though, was nothing short of monstrous. And medication withdrawal does not even begin to justify an extremely involved, premeditated plan to horrifically traumatize people. Schizophrenia does not justify cruelty. Nothing justifies that level of inhumane behavior. He's just a sadist, which is why he chose to punish people who weren't even involved in the prank. The added factor of his mental illness makes him pitiable, sure, but it's not what makes him so depraved.
Part-Time Party Time Sure withdrawal is painful. Sure my mental illness isn't as bad as his. Sure being given the wrong medication does suck. But you're still responsible for your own actions. If you keep experiencing mental illness, shouldn't you try seeing another professional or communicate to them how badly the treatment is going? Josh comes from a very rich family, so surely all this is within his means. However he instead chooses to create an extremely expensive and sadistically torture arena for his former friends. Furthermore, even though he didn't kill anyone, the stress he put his friends through could have resulted in a panic attack or worse. It will certainly leave them with emotional scars. To conclude, Josh is an interesting and well written character, but still a bad guy for what he did.
I can't believe I haven't gotten around to watching THIS theory yet, that was an amazing breakdown of the game. As a person studying psychology in college and as a person with mental illness myself, I appreciate all the awareness you brought here. Thanks Matt, this was awesome.
@Ocean Blue but you can't say his illness is completely unrelated to his motive, he is driven to do all of this because of his guilt and it push him further when he is halucinating his sisters told him he is guilty so no, he might be the one at fault but it mostly that doctor fault who can't cure him in the right way.
@Ocean Blue well, except he is already scizophenic when he is planning all of that my friend the doctor interview show us that he interview him likely happen before he planned all of that torture and he is already unstable at this point, he basically already insane althought insane might be too strong words more like mentally disturbed at this point and i never seen the case where mentally disturbed person person can't plan.
@Ocean Blue well never, but there is a case where insane people never get blamed and that's a fact here even if they do murder, i can't speak for other country because they might have different law. Of course idk the insane man motive but he can get away with murder here if they proved to be insane, of course people like that still getting arrested but not to jail but Asylum until they show symptom of recovering or else they stuck in there forever but that' s if that guy has family who guarantee them or something, idk what happen to those who didn't have one anymore.
@Ocean Blue I'm absolutely baffled by your "psychosis can only last a few hours" argument. That isn't remotely how mental illness works. Duration of psychosis varies significantly and CAN last months, which is very likely what Josh was experiencing.
I was under the impression that it was Josh interpretation of Dr Hill, I actually wonder if Dr Hill wasn't a bad clinician, as evidenced my the multiple out of hours messages to try and check on his patient. The problem with mental illness is that it can be suuuper tricky. It doesn't always present in a clear cut way, Josh is 18, so some of the more sever symptoms may only just be presenting *now* exacerbated by the death of his sisters. As you could see at the start Josh was a bit better at keeping it together. Some of the things that Matt Pat didn't list that are part of schitzophrenia is a flat and blunted affect, they appear very flat and unemotional alot of the time. This is a shared symptom with chronic depression, and in that context it may make sense why at 18 he hadn't quite reached his diagnosis yet.
I also found it very interesting that everytime you "visit" the psychiatrist the atmosphere gets more threatening and darker. The doc also seams to get more aggressive and the building looks more and more broken. Maybe Josh felt threatened when going to the doctor and feels unsafe when he is there. I know it's just a minor little detail but when the doctor asks you questions for example: "What are you more afraid of?" and you always answer with "Snakes", on your next visit there will be a snake in a glass on the table. Maybe Josh was trying to open up, but then was scared to get confronted by the doctor and felt helpless in his hands. Also I noticed that it always feels like Dr. Hill ends the session in the middle of a question. It always made me feel like he wants to get rid of you as fast as possible. I also think Josh particularly chose Chris and Ashley for his game to get them together. When Josh and Sam go down the basement, depanding on which option you choose, Josh says something like this, regarding Chris and Ashley: "Maybe they need some sort of traumatic experience to get together...." As you said: He is delusional so maybe he truly thought to help Chris to get with Ashley. What I also thought was kinda strange that Hannah, as Wendigo doesn't seam to be as beastly as the others. When Mike and Jess are in the cabin and well... starting to have a fun time we see that the Wendigo is watching them. It could easily break the window but it watches them. Also it places Jessica's phone right on the doorstep for her to come out. The Wendigo could easily kill Jessica and then go after Mike, but it just draggs her away. I'm not a 100% sure if it is really Hannah, but if it is her she might be jealous and wanted to get Jessica.But this "theory" kinda outplays itself when we clearly see that Hannah (as Wendigo) can crush Josh's head... So yeah I just recently replayed the game and now I'm obsessed again. xD
The psychiatrist is Josh's externalized normality. He went to several different shrinks, last one genuinely tried to help him, but blabla misdiagnosis. Then his sisters died and *Josh rejected what the Doc represented: Compassion, conformity, consequences.* He went YOLO in the worst way. Which you can see when his prank delusion collapses.
(OBVIOUS SPOILER) ... Did anyone else realized how the wendigo Hannah protects Mike many times? I bet yes, it's pretty damn obvious. I've thinking of that since the beginning of the game. When Mike is going to the cabin with Jessica they are being followed by a wendigo, and that wendigo doesn't attack them (it just keep stalking through the woods). When they come to the cabin, the 'mysterious' wendigo is still stalking them, this time through the windows, so when Jessica asks Mike to close the window the mysterious (hannah) wendigo gets upset/jealous and throw Jessica's lost phone through another window to call their attention. Until that part, the wendigo is peacefully following them (because of Mike, of course??), but when Jessica screams that they'll have sex and all that crap, the wendigo gets mad, which can actually confirm that the wendigo is really Hannah, since she was in a platonic love with Mike all the time. The wendigo hannah gets Jessica and leave her to the mines, but doesn't kill her (!), another point that confirms that the wendigo is hannah. Wendigos have a uncontrollable desire for human meat but that one keep Jessica alive, meaning that the wendigo Hannah doesn't have enough courage to kill her friend. Another time is when Mike finds Josh in the mines and they are trying to return from it, then they go through the water and the wendigo Hannah gets Mike first, but let him out, then gets Josh and bring him back. And finally, when everyone returns to Josh's house, many wendigos are inside of it trying to kill them all, but the wendigo Hannah is trying to protect them (especially Mike, again). If you choose to make Mike the last one alive, there'll be a scene when the wendigo Hannah sees him and try to approach, that time Mike blows everything, and in a couple frames you can see a sad/surprised/disappointed face on the wendigo Hannah that was trying to touch Mike. Man that's just sick, disturbing!
+Gabriel Azevedo Your theory is pretty believable but I found a flaw. Fail too many QTE's and take all of the long routes around when chasing the Wendigo that grabbed Jessica and you'll find her with her jaw ripped off.
Theshadow34 All right I didn't know that Jessica could die that part. But anyway, how about the other ones? When Mike got drowned by the Hannan wendigo and when Hannan wendigo attacks the other wendigo to prevent it to killing Mike? I think the game is trying to show this for us by these scenes, how Hanna is suffering and how she can recognize him and still she will try to reach him (at the last part in Josh's house) (which I found very sad/disturbing).
I just pointed out that Hannah Wendigo could kill her "friends". Your theory however is possible due to how near the final part of the game, Mike goes underwater while traveling with Josh and boom Hannah Wendigo pops up and, depending on how the game played out, kills or drags Josh away, leaving Mike alive.
Can I just mention that any horror game with the suggestion to NOT MOVE is almost as cool as one telling you to not make a sound when you're wearing a headset because then that means even the slightest movement will kill you and this is a realistic thing. if a monster or even animal that bases it's hunting skills from movement senses you moving, you are dead and to think people are criticizing this mechanic is kind of sad because this is probably as close to said "Don't make a sound" mechanic we'll ever get and it's also very realistic because if you are scared and holding a controller, there's a good chance you'll be shaking so this tests your ability of willpower at the same time.... continue on.
Ace19444 It actually does work properly, but most people don't know how it works. Here's what happens: If the don't move segment is really long, like at the end of the game with Sam, then the little blue shape will slowly move toward the white edge on its own and you have to slightly move the controller in the opposite direction to keep it inside. I know that sounds dumb but it's the only way to make sure people don't cheat by putting the controller on the ground.
12:45 “The true monster is pyschological disorder. It strikes randomly, has no mercy and gives you no chance to escape. No chance to run and hide.” damn.... that really hits different.
Can we take a second to talk about how a random UA-camr knows that a fictional character has schizophrenia yet half of the time psychiatrists can't prescribe the right medicine...?
Now I understand where you are coming from and I see very valid points in your argument. But I'm talking about all the stories I've heard from friends, family, and even my own personal experiences. Once I was prescribed some Lexapro and after my first dose I was informed that it was all a mental practice for the first week. Obviously, that totally ruined the medicine for me. It's simple things like that that totally mess up what psychiatrists are trying to figure out.
josh is fictional character, we can see everything and we can repeat the game to analyze it again. also google and theorys from other people can help. real people just came to your cabinet and pretending to be a normal. that's a gigantic difference.
What really makes me mad about the 'prank' is how they seem to think that just because they think it's a joke it's perfectly fine Someone at my school who I didn't know but is in a couple of my classes pulled a plastic bag over my head from behind without warning and he and his friend just kept saying that it was a joke as if that makes it ok to do to anyone especially someone they don't know
I know the feeling. When I was a kid my "friend" would do things like choke me from behind or push books on my head and say it was just a joke. But jokes are supposed to be funny, and for the benefit of the person on the receiving end. If I could go back in time, I would have looked her dead in the eye and asked, "How is that funny? Explain it to me." And waited and watched her stutter as she tries to find something that doesn't make her look like an asshole.
I believe there's more to josh than being the villain here, imagine having friends, some known long enough to be considered family and because of them he lost two sisters in one night completely taking his quality of life away where he has to be medicated probably way more than before to just barely scrape the surface. What he did wasn't right and they weren't in the right either. He was ill and the trauma made it way worse and i feel so sorry for him because i can't imagine that feeling and i understand where he comes from but what he did to counter his feelings wasn't right and should've stayed on the medication, but overall he was never a bad character or villain. Trauma and him being ill as it is, he couldn't think for himself anymore
It's been six years. Did anyone finally tell this guy he's😮😢 completely wrong? Play the game as an insane wendigo who made Hannah eat Beth then revealed himself as Josh before she died. Yeah I'd say she's mad about more than the prank.
Maybe Josh goes after Chris a lot because he feels he betrayed him most cause they were both passed out but Josh didn't know that. They were best friends and he thinks he contributed to his sisters death. For Sam, he also doesn't know she didn't contribute. It's kind of obvious that Josh liked Sam so he feels she also betrayed him more than the others... He's closest to them and even though they're the two good characters, they "betrayed" him the most. Edit: If you're someone who thinks Josh doesn't like Sam, then another addition to my comment is this: Sam and Hannah were best friends. So Josh may also of gone after her FOR his sister.
Haylei chocolateraisinlookinass yeah I agree but at the end credits she stated that after Hannah's and Beth's disappearance he'd only talk to Sam, And said they had a connection. She probably would've told him what happen. That's why he didn't put her apart of his games. He only chased her, and tied her up in a completely separate room.
Haylei chocolateraisinlookinass yeah I agree but at the end credits she stated that after Hannah's and Beth's disappearance he'd only talk to Sam, And said they had a connection. She probably would've told him what happen. That's why he didn't put her apart of his games. He only chased her, and tied her up in a completely separate room.
He must've known that Chris was passed out because they had video footage of the prank. I'm thinking either it was Chris's idea to get that drunk that Josh passed out or Josh is just trying to get Ashley to see how much Chris cares about her that he'd die to save her.
Fun Fact: This episode is the highest rated episode of Game Theory on IMDB with a 9.4/10 just beating “FNAF Sister Location DECODED” which has a 9.1/10
+VengfulDarkness There are places where consent age is 19. Others where consent doesn't exist unless there is marriage. I believe there is a few places where it is 21 as well, but I can't find them again after a cursory search. However, in Canada where the game is set, it is perfectly legal.
Finally someone else feels the way I do about Until Dawn. I hated that you couldn't save Josh. There was always obviously something wrong with him. Josh's whole part in the storyline is sad. I always felt sad for his outcome, and the fact that his sisters death made it worse. Also everyone else in the game is a bunch of douchebags. Except maybe Sam and Chris. Maybe.
Actually, Sam (my favorite character) she did not have anything to do with the prank. Sam was trying to find Hannah to tell her about it. My evidence, Sam said in the beginning "Don't you guys think this is a little cruel?" You also see Sam trying to find Hannah. People think she was trying to find her to tell her that Mikes waiting for her upstairs, but why would Sam do that? 1, Hannah was Sam's bestfriend, and 2, Why would they leave a note? Josh talked to Sam BECAUSE she did not kill his sisters.
sam is not like the others they think "oh lets just record this" just a prank....ok that is TO FAR the parents will probaly tell their parents except sam
He did that multiple times. One that sticks out is when princess peach kisses Mario on his nose, he used the "this scene does not contain a lap dance" reference
Wait a second Matt. Chris didn't do anything. He and Josh were out cold after drinking. Sam was also only semi-aware of what was going on. Also, have you noticed how if Chris is still alive by Chapter Ten, nothing will kill him?
@@TommyTonk No they're saying that if you keep Chris alive by the last chapter, he can't die. Of course Chris can die before that, as Call Me Kevin did, but he can't die in the lodge at the end. He's already out of the lodge before anyone else is.
The living characters in the game are 18/19, but Josh's sisters were younger than him. Plus the prank that got the twins killed was the year before the game takes place, so the girls were only 16 or 17 years old when they died.
@@HeroKings not the deaths themselves but the CAUSE of their deaths, the prank where one of the girls was tricked into stripping on camera and in front of all of her "friends" - at age 16 or 17. Sorry, I should've been more clear as to why I was referencing that scene.
The prank was actually Jessica's idea. She was Emily's best friend then and "was just looking out for her girl, em" not to mention she never seems sorry for it and then hooks up with her best friend's boyfriend after having an affair with him. Definitely worse character
to be fair you can blame Jess, but EVERYONE went along with it / minus sam and the siblings/ so technically it's everyone's fault, they all hid and giggled. Ashley is imo worst character
You can't think straight when you are filled with negative emotion. In Hannah's case, embarrassment and betrayal. Hannah was humiliated and just wanted to get out of there and out of there she did
12:53 Honestly this is a really sad truth, like... The system isn't good enough at the minute, people aren't getting the help they need (some are and to them I'm happy for) but some people just aren't
OK. The bear trap that got Mike's fingers wasn't set up by Josh, It was set up by Flame Thrower Guy to catch Wendigo's ( You find this out in the journal entries from Flame Thrower Guy's journal ). Josh never did anything to hurt his friends physically, he thought it was joke to mess with them which did probably hurt all of them mentally. Josh didn't realize that Wendigo's were on the mountain so he didn't know about the traps set by Flame Thrower Guy to catch the Wendigo.
Also, the thing with Ashley. She stabbed him with scissors, and he didn't mean to hurt her. He was going to drug her but he lashed out cause he wasn't planning on her defending herself. I'm not justifying what he had done to Ashley if she did get punched in your play through or someone else's but he wasn't planning on hurting any of his friends, so he just lashed out when one decided to defend herself.
Exactly! Everyone else can kill except for Josh, Josh doesn't want to kill anyone. He just wants to scare his friends with a prank that is not really a prank and he never does anything to physically hurt someone, except for the thing with Ashley which I've explained already.
i don't think there is any justification for what Josh did to everyone (especially since it was centered so much around Chris and Sam, the only ones not participating in the prank) but I do think the game delivers a pretty solid explanation and I was crushed that Josh died either way and that he was the only one you couldn't save
Not really sure about this, but I believe the main motivation behind Josh's 'prank' was based on his self-hatred and sense of being emotionally isolated from his friends. Did you see how much he rubbed it in Chris and Sam's faces that he was sawed in half? Josh wanted so badly for his friends to believe he deserved love, because after he failed to save Hannah and Beth, he completely abhorred himself. I'm sure a lot of people have wondered how much their friends really care about them, but for this schizophrenic kid who is not getting the medication he needs, he doesn't see anything wrong with actually experimenting with their love. He can't tell what's realistic anymore. Can you psychologically torture your friends and expect them to forgive you? Hell no! He does not deserve their support after doing that to them. He deserves punishment. But don't forget that he is _constantly_ being psychologically tortured by delusions and hallucinations. It's part of his life. And they're so vivid, even we initially believe they're real. Whole rooms and people and voices and music? I would believe it! From what we've seen of his hallucinations, they're always analysing him, probing him for his true nature, or aggressively guilt-tripping him. I believe it's a mirror into his self-perception. Everything those hallucinations say to him is something he believes somewhere in his mind. He's so out of it. I wonder if he even knows what he's doing. Maybe he believes everybody deserves to know what it feels like to have killed someone. He feels like he killed his sisters, after all. So those are two things I believe: 1, Josh wants to see how much his friends love him, and 2, he is truly no longer able to distinguish between what is a revelatory prank and what is an unforgivable act of mental torture. Now for the third motivation. It's possible Josh threw Chris and Ash around so much because he wanted them to get closer through their experience. It is alluded that he genuinely wants Chris to make a move, but believes he never will because he's too shy and awkward. Josh weaved the torture devices in a way that Chris would be forced to get Ash out of some awful situations and that she would love him for it. I think Josh actually thought he was helping them. It's disgustingly twisted. And he was so bonkers, he thought they would all be able to laugh it off and thank him for his 'stimulating' intervention. At the shed where Chris and Mike were tying him up, he said something along the lines of 'This isn't how this was supposed to go'. He really expected a DIFFERENT REACTION. How?? Crazy! One thing I'm pretty sure about is that he was planning to do some particularly nasty stuff to Mike and Jess when he was done with his besties. Separate cabin and everything? That is way too suspicious. And how about the fact that Emily lost her precious bag? She doesn't seem like the type to forget about such an important piece of luggage. The fact that Josh then locks her and Matt out of the lodge when they return only makes me surer that Josh intended for them to be separated from the others as well. TL;DR: I believe something was intended for all of them, but it did not go as planned because Matt and Em ran off to the fire tower, and Mike and Sam ended up in the torture chamber to rescue Chris and Ash.
Raging Gamer The gang didn't murder them; there was no way they could have known what would happen. Josh wasn't trying to punish them for murder, he was punishing them for cruelty. The irony is that he was even crueller. And I say this as someone who loves Josh as a second favourite character. He was _ruthlessly_ cruel, but I believe he meant well, as sick as that sounds.
The prank they pulled on Hannah was especially cruel when you consider that she was the "shy girl" who was a bit sheltered, sensitive and very nervous. That trip to the cabin was the FIRST TIME she went out there! Imagine if you went to a high school party for the first time as a shy, socially-awkward bean and got ruthlessly mocked by someone you had a crush on, while everyone else laughed. That trip to the cabin was her first time coming out of her shell, and everyone knew that... "It wAs jUSt a pRANk hAaAAaaAnnnN!" I've always felt bad for Josh. It was obvious to me that he was mentally ill and he was already suffering from the loss of both his sisters, but apparently some folks missed this. I think it's easy to not take Josh's illness seriously because this game is so campy (in the best ways! Still a great game!), but it really can hit home when you look past the camp. I don't believe his illness excuses his actions, but it definitely explains them and it's sad to imagine that he went undiagnosed. I wonder if his symptoms started to hit home right around the death of his sisters... That might have been so hard to catch, especially when you have a grieving family at the same time. Welp, now that family has no children. I wonder if we could get an Until Dawn sequel starring Josh's parents in some way... Maybe they'd confront all of the kids that went to the cabin. I mean, seriously, TWICE they went to the cabin and got their kids killed. First the twins, then their surviving son. There is a lot of potential here... Especially if Josh remains alive as a wendigo.
I actually liked Josh in the game :( Almost everything you mentioned were also my personal feelings about him. Like..he is not a bad guy..he just needed help and support from his friends..or..anybody. He needed help to deal with everything he's been through. But he never got it. But when you mentioned that he has no choice.. it broke my heart again. I was complaining about not being able to give him a "happy end" and not being able to save him. But I didn't think about the fact that he really had no choice. .. Ever! :( This makes it even more tragic for me :( But your theory of how he got treated wrong by the doctors tops it all ... I shouldn't feel so much for a character that doesn't exist in real life..but I do. He just has a very..VERY tragic story and in my opinion he deserves much better than this :(. I would have saved him no matter what.. He has been through so much and he deserves to have a "normal life" ..or at least get the CHANCE to recover from everything that happened.. But he never did. And.. that just made me sad.. And it still does :'/ ...yeah and sorry about that :'D ..I guess I really liked him a lot :'D ... Still not over his "destiny".. I finished the game yesterday :| ...xD
Josh became my favourite character because i could deeply relate to him. As while playing the game and finding all the clues, while looking at all the medications he took, i knew something was wrong. Everytime i came back to the game i cry because i knew josh will die no matter what, and he will be forever misunderstood by his friends. :(
you guys should watch mr robot. the actor is really awesome. i felt for josh too. and all the md's not realizing schizophrenia played a part was either a plot hole or used to tie the plot. actually maybe josh never talked about his hallucinations knowing it wasnt socially normal or maybe he never felt safe talking about what was really going on. and the sad thing is there probably wasnt a happy ending for him bc he was the scapegoat for the game. and it's more socially accepted that he gets no chance at a happy ending. which may unfortunately be a microcosm to how society views people suffering from/dealing with mental illness
The ending to this video actually made me tear up a bit. My brother passed away April 22nd, 2014. From a unique seizure that caused him not to be in his right mind and caused an accidental unaware suicide. But prior to it all, he had passed out in the bathroom roughing up his face pretty bad on the floor vent. After seeing a doctor and being told everything was fine, the next day he went to work and crashed his car through a metal rail and landed in an embankment. Nobody was hurt, however he had some bruises and the car was ruined. But again... he was given the all clear sign from doctors. And the next day at work he passed out and was rushed to a hospital by ambulance. And of course... no help was given. The next day would be his last. It all struck so suddenly, and he was vigilant about trying to get help. And he was scared. And nobody did anything for him... he didn't get a choice. I miss him so damn much it hurts. After he passed I met 3 females with the exact same type of seizures. Who were getting sufficient care. I took it as a sign, and have been currently trying to start a charity in his name for that specific type of seizure. Anyway, this video was really REALLY great. Not only did I love the game, but this theory really shines a great message on the villain of mental illness and other issues in the like. Thanks Mattpatt!
fewpolecat93- jay I know it's your opinion but no because I mean because of his "friends" he lost his sisters he pranked them just to scare them they deserved it Josh didn't he was mental he couldn't save his sisters I mean think about it but eh
+lilysworld25 By that logic, you yourself cannot be old enough to watch the contents of this game. After all, you did not utilize capital letters for your username. An older individual would know to always capitalize any written name. That must be correct, because the statistic "Most people do not utilize capitals or proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation outside informal settings," is definitely not true. You also judged a random person on the internet that you do not know in a way you could not possibly deduce, especially in relation to something the majority of the civilized world above the age of 18 falls victim to. Also, when quoting a word someone else stated such as 'and', you put quotation marks (") around it. When just saying a specific word or letter, you put apostrophes around it, such as the letter 'A'. Additionally, you should have used the word 'those' instead of 'that' in your final sentence because you are referring to a plural, you shouldn't have utilized the word 'this' in the final sentence because it's redundant, and you can, in fact, start a sentence with the word 'and' if it brings an additional topic into whatever discussion or text-based setting you are engaging in, so long as it relates to the previous point. And you forgot to put a comma after "First of all", because that is not part of the idea and is added on for emphasis or transition. Edit: Oh, and your first comment, "I feel sad that you watched this but you don't even go or listen to school," should be rewritten to "I felt sad reading about the original poster having watched this video whilst they don't even attend school or try to be educated." You are talking about a past thought that you had and you also said that a person must "listen to school", which they cannot do unless the school medium is purely auditory, and even then that is not listening to school, but listening to a lecture or some other word for auditory transmittance of ideals specific to a school setting. The only way a person can "listen to school" would be to sit outside or around a school and listening to the ambient sounds of the grounds or constructs within, which do not provide or boost an individual's already existing education.
as a resident myself, I am impressed that you recognize that that is schizophrenia and have done good research about depression and schizophrenia. I was thinking "schizophrenia, schizophrenia" all the while I was playing this game. Well done! Thank you for pointing out the real message of this whole game: mental illness is cruel and sometimes misdiagnosis happens (doctors are humans too, they make mistakes as we all do). However, Matt, I don't agree with your statement that "there is no escape from mental illness". You CAN get out of depression, you CAN beat schizophrenia, You CAN beat your own mind! So, if you are experiencing (or someone close to you is) depression, thinking like there is no way out, or experiencing all the things that happened to Josh, SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP IMMEDIATELY! Talk to your parents, your family, your best friend, someone you trust. They WILL and CAN help you. Don't be embarrassed, don't think a psychiatrist is someone who treats crazy people and you seeking help to a psychiatrist means you are crazy yourself. They can help you get through this. Remember you are LOVED. and most of all, YOU ARE NOT ALONE. There are a lot of people who are going through this and have gone through this. There are communities and support group like ADAA or Erika's Lighthouse or NAMI. Stay safe and stay healthy.
Faya Sitompul you can’t “beat” schizophrenia, only control it with medication, regular medication(that this kid was not given) till the end of your days. Not counting that it’s a degenerative mental illness not always but sometimes even medication is not enough. But it’s true some people who have the luck to have support and treatment can have a relatively normal life. Gladly different story with depression.
Josh's backstory and the presence of the sanatorium both point to the fact that sometimes the whole mental health system (not just individual doctors) really fails people. Sometimes it actively hurts people. Sometimes it engages in widespread practices that later generations will recognize as cruel and profoundly untherapeutic. Sadly though, your comment bears up how hopeless it is to point this out to anyone working in that system. They are all quick to say "seek help." But they will never hold their colleagues accountable for abuse, or attempt to change any of the many problems with the mental health system.
It's hard enough to get out of bed in the morning to take my meds for anxiety and depression most days, I can't imagine how difficult it must be to live with schizophrenia.
I think Dr. Hill was actually good. In most of Josh's hallucinated therapy sessions, Hill came through to me as the "voice of sanity" in Josh's psyche, telling him he need to stop because the prank bad for him. Also, he got more and more injured as Josh deteriorated into madness
I think that was what Josh believed Dr. Hill to be-I mean, that is what a psychiatrist should be-and yet it doesn't change the fact that he had made such a crucial error in Josh's diagnosis and left him untreated for almost 10 years.
I think the hallucination version of Dr Hill was good, and indeed Josh's voice of reason. The real Dr Hill who we never meet was clearly a bad psychiatrist.
Cows Go Moo Gaming and Chris, he was passed out drunk WITH JOSH! They both had nothing to do with it. I read a different theory that says he targeted his closest friends during the prank instead of the people who were most to blame (Mike, Emily and Jessica) because while he wanted revenge on everybody, he had a delusion in thinking that he was also helping his friends by making them "internet sensations" and pushing Chris and Ashley closer together. He thought he was getting even AND doing something good for his friends at the same time. Poor guy
XxPhoenixX since we see so little of Beth, we just assume she’s a loyal younger sister but I bet if she were still alive in the game they would give her more skills AND flaws
RPG Is Life Yeah, but until that, Sam is mostly the one who wants to make things right. If you check out her traits, It's REALLY more probable that she would save everyone.(It's our choice, not her's)
Sam is actually the most innocent of the group. She outwardly tried to connect and help Josh after Hannah and Beth disappear. She also knew about the prank on Hannah and tried to find her to stop her.
I love Sam too, bu what about Chris?
They have been friends since school and Chris is aware that Josh is taking medication. Sure, later he helps Mike to tie up Josh, but in his defense: He went through hell that night. Seeing his best friend die and having to choose wether to take his own life or the life of his crush.
Well, Sam sends those cops to their death at the end. So I think Chris is the most innocent.
Sauce of your pfp?
@@flufflewarrior Also Chris was never apart of the prank. He was there that night, but was passed out across from Josh. Sam realized it was cruel, yet she also was the one that initiated the prank on Hannah, which I assume is her best friend, hence the hesitation and the immediate attempt to comfort.
Yeah Sam is the best
"The true victim is Josh."
And the parents who have now lost their son and their twin daughters. That must be agony.
Synthra Official the parents knew about the wendigos though
Josh Kimbrough what?
they did not
@@JoshuaKimbrough
No they didn't. They wouldn't have been that much stupid to send their own children there if they did.
Unless they sent them there on purpose... theory!!!!!!!!
One thing that I think a lot of people in the comments section seem to overlook is that Josh's actions were probably inspired by his parents' movies. They specialised in gritty horror movies with all manner of special effects. It's hard to say how much of it he came up with on his own, and whether he was capable of seeing the damaging effects of his actions when he grew up around horror movie sets.
Woah, nice observation
@@joesubel This comment does not get enough credit.
I mean to be fair if they were good parents, they should have tried to keep their children to an appropriate level of creepy. Not doing that could lead to nightmares/yes eventual desensitization. Then again they are absentee for the entire game and raised 3 kids two of which seem maladjusted socially. So you could be right.
doomed from the start
Cool
“The true villain is a system that doesn’t know enough or doesn’t care enough” that hit home. I for one felt this way about josh and the story from my very first play through. Mental illness is a real thing and instead of helping most ppl including those in doctor positions, just write them off as “crazy” it’s so sad
I'd say instead of helping most people cave in and give them whatever they want to "feel better". Instead of actually helping people we just throw medication and irreversible surgeries and slap them on the back telling them they're better. Sad stuff
@@tylerlackey1175 well sometimes medication and surgeries is exactly the thing people need to get better, having a society that accepts open feelings for EVERYONE and that doesn’t stigmatize conditions would also help tremendously
So innocents deserve to die bc of a crazy guy who didnt get help, even though that is no one else’s problem
@@Tw0Dots I’m talking about real life dude not this game😒….. but since u mention it, there are too many ppl out here with a “not my problem” attitude. The same attitude that sees someone in trouble and won’t help
You understand there's psychotics out there that don't even understand they're sick, right? @@Tw0Dots
Perfect description of Josh's schizophrenia. Until Dawn has one of the most beautiful depictions of untreated schizophrenia that I have ever seen in a video game. That said, nothing about what you said is a theory. The game makes it pretty clear that Josh has untreated schizophrenia if you pick up all the clues
Yeah i caught that in the first play-through
I actually looked it up and found nothing on the internet about it when it came out
Keifer Weiland Facts
As someone who is related to a person suffering from schizophrenia, I must say Until Dawn's depiction of it is quite accurate
Besides the scene where josh is tripping and seeing his sisters. What other times does it hint he has schizophrenia?
A fact. A GAME FACT!
I'm so glad I am not the only one who felt sorry for Josh.
DAY-V Entertainment™ Same T^T
DAY-V Entertainment™ i keep seeing here in game theorists and vikan gaming repeatedly
DAY-V Entertainment™ no i feel bad for him it's not his fault
DAY-V Entertainment™ I hate Josh
If you hate Josh I hate you all
“Don’t let beth’s yoga pants distract you from the truth” still a brilliant line
Those pants are shiny
Sam's yoga pants are fine too
Pants?
Dude I got an ad for yoga pants after reading this comment
@@xXDunceBoyXx Pants.
The three words used to describe Joshs character.
Loving: he loved his sisters
Thoughtful: meticulously planned this “prank”
Complex: you know why
Well... he did love them but their death was accidental and torturing their friends for that is probably not what they would have wanted.
@@kevinhoskins9320 from joshs perspective it was less about their deaths and more about how they felt before dying, when josh asks them how they felt he didnt go "how did it feel thinking you were going to die?" he asks "how does it feel to be humiliated and betrayed?"
@@kevinhoskins9320 all of you saying that
But if you were Josh and you had that kinda of love for your sister that the people that you thought were your friends caused your sisters to die yeah you would look for revenge and traumatized them
Josh had a psychologist who talk him I to that and made his condition much worse
You can't blame Josh blame the others and the psychologist
@@kevinhoskins9320 Remember when he was hallucinating in chapter 10 and he kept saying "you can't tell me what to do", then later gave in and started saying "I trust you"? Maybe his sisters' ghosts in his head guilt tripped him into doing the prank to avenge them... coz he also said "not again"
Yes because you wouldn’t do something that a mentally ill person did that means they’re unreasonable and don’t think of others
Plot Twist: Josh is actually an Oscar winning actor and this is just a new movie project...
I was shocked when I saw his Oscar
I didn’t think that bohemian raspody won
The Hamburgler no but Rami won for best actor
@@rain9463 same
In this game, you're the latest director to work with Glass Eye Pix, the production company of Larry Fessenden (who is the co-writer of the game's story and the actor of the Flamethrower Guy). Essentially, the game play through is you making the final cut of a feature film.
4 years later, and still no theory on Sam’s Towel, I mean c’mon??
It secretly was a synthetic fiber sauna towel with a very strong Velcro fastener made of recycled trash bags that was proofed.
Sam's towel is currently locked up in the SCP Foundation.
4 years later and this game is still one of my favorite horror games. Sam and Josh were my favorite characters of the bunch. All the others excluding Matt could've died and I wouldn't have cared. (Off-topic.... but isn't it crazy how much the logo has changed? Wow)
The true about the towel is that it was a hologram thus it defines all logic as it is just light.you are welcomed for thanking me for not making another simple filled video matpat (now you have to make good theory and not some filler)
We still never got that slender theory..
As a Paranoid Schizophrenic- as I know to believe when on my medications- this made me cry. Finally, someone who understands that I’m not a psychopath at heart. Someone who finally understands the value of love and care. I’m so done with people telling me to rot in an Asylum and to be treated by doctors like Doctor Hill. Josh was the only true character who I understand. The hallucinations (Psychosis), the behavior that I never remember doing... all of it.
Thank you.
Hi, hope you're doing well. Just thought about you. Sending love xx
im so glad you found something to relate to. this game is genuinely amazing. i hope youve been doing well, i wish you all the best!!
Hey man we all have our demons I hope you see this, everything will be alright bro, be at peace with yourself
I hope you’re doing well!
Morgan Bathgate hope you’re doing good, you’re an awesome person with a big heart and an intelligent mind. People who don’t see that aren’t worth any of your time.
Josh was my favourite character from the start and it angered me so much when UA-camrs would always give him the awful scenarios. I always wanted him and Sam to get together so badly and I was so upset when he died but I could tell he was mentally ill and it wasn’t his fault about what happened. I’m glad I found this video because I just thought everyone else hated him.
@Marissa Burks You're definitely not, I ship them too.
wish to unsee this thread
Same
Sameee
@Marissa Burks Quite a few people do (including me). You just need to find the right comment section. :)
Emily: It was just a prank, Han.
Matt: **Doesn't grab Emily's hand** It was just a prank, Emily.
DEEP
SO DEEP
SO SO DEEP
Deeper than the Mariana Trench.
@@cionib17 deepthr...
Thank you for clarifying that people with schizophrenia aren’t socio or psychopaths.
I know this is one years ago but why would he have to?
@@maxy6749 Many people get them confused
Okay, I'm a young child and don't use social media and stuffz, so I didn't know people even got those confused, wow.
@seth choi Yeah, Sherlock Holmes is a sociopath. He is one of my favorite fictional characters.
@@maxy6749 I think a lot of people have learned that any mental illness that results in violent behavior is a result of being a socio/psychopath. And it's kind of sad how many use socio- and psychopathy interchangeably.
IT WAS JUST A PRANK, HAN!
Defenetly just a prank
Just a prank... that murdered her and turned her sister into a windigo
Lol
LOOK BRO THERE'S A CAMERA, IT'S JUST A PRANK
+Dawko *Getting attacked by wendigo" IT'S A PRANK, STOP, IT'S JUST A PRANK
Josh's story is so heartbreaking, and something I can relate to. I have BPD and mental health professionals don't like treating patients with borderline personality disorder. We're seen as too difficult, too hard to change. Some doctors plain out think it's either us "just wanting attention" or it plain out is dismissed as existing. BPD is real in my life, it is a hard disease to deal with, and no medicine can fix it like my bipolar can be treated. But I'm not impossible to fix. I've made a lot of progress on my own. In a system where diseases outside of the simple idea of how mental health should like, people with more complicated disorders get shoved to the side or shoved out completely. All my life all they told me I had was depression. But after many suicide attempts they finally determined I had BPD and bipolar along with my PTSD. I've been getting better with the right meds because of it, sadly Josh never got that. And it's so heartbreaking to see unfold 💔
Im rooting for u :)
@@nate4621 aw thank you :)
@@muffylittlemoon I had a baby brother that died and I also have OCD, so I can relate with Josh as well. Stay strong, my friend.
@@rattlesnakejake956 you too 🥀
It's so sad how people with BPD are treated badly. Do you feel like talking about it? Do you need to talk? I'm willing to listen.
The bear trap trap was not for the teens, it was set by the flamethrower man, he set it for the wendigo
Hmmm ur pretty smart
@@has-pingu7862
It's not hard to guess that trap wasn't Josh's, so no not smart for just saying that.
@@frozenfoxgames5300 I thought it was smart
@@jazzyangelflower3344
You have your opinion and I have mine, so both get canceled out.
Who, Jack?
The true meaning of Until Dawn is Dr. Hill is a terrible doctor.
Greg Lenoce he wasn't on a hill so he couldn't be a good Dr.
Yeah reminds me too much of Doctor Phil
Greg Lenoce but Chris was asleep during the prank so he wasn't a bad person
Greg Lenoce HE IS THIS KILLER
CASE CLOSED
IM OUT CYA
Chris?
Everyone: involved in a prank that kills two girls
Everyone: lol it’s fine it was just a prank
Josh:pranks the people who killed his sisters, pranks don’t cause anyone’s death
Everyone: JOSH IS THE CRAZY ONE HERE!
ok. but he purposely traumatized his friends. mental illness doesn't excuse actions.
One is manslaughter ( "accidentally killing someone" ) but the other is straight up psychological torture/ murder.
@@el9250 But, it kinda does in the case of Schizophrenia, as mistreatment can lead to horrific effect, and cause the inability to distinguish reality from delusion. Many people who suffer from the effects are paranoid, and attack or harm people for fear of their own safety, as they falsely believe that they're in danger. In this case, he was deluded that what he did was a harmless prank with no real problems, when clearly, it was not. In this case, if he were to have lived, the best thing to have done was to send him to get help, put him on rehabilitation, and then properly treat him. His pranks did lead to indirect deaths, but I don't know how direct you could call them. On the other hand, the others have no excuse for what they did. The death of two people, even by accident, would be counted as first degree manslaughter.
@@Endershock1678 Yes he did have that but that still doesn't excuse his actions. You could say he thought it was harmless but that does not change the fact that he probably gave at least 6 people varying levels of PTSD. Just because you are mentally ill doesn't mean that you are free from every wrong thing you've done. I do not think he is a particularly bad person, but I'm tired of people painting him as a hero when in reality he was a tragedy.
@@el9250 I'm not saying he's free, I'm just saying a lot of it can't be viewed in the same way. As I said earlier, he won't get away scott free, but he should be reformed and put in prohibition. The rest meanwhile don't deserve that luxuary. I don't think my issue with your comment was that you said he has blame (he does), but the comment gives the feeling of he is equal in blame to everyone else, which I don't think he is.
3:27 Man, Mike's beartrap is a trap for Wendigos. Josh wouldn't attach a literal limb to a trap just to attract friends.
Also, Josh didn't set up any scares in the sanatorium
Yup that was flamethrower guys trap for catching the wendigos you learn that he used a lot of those to lure them into the sanetorium during the story. It's a pretty genius trap the one thing wendigos are intrested in eating moving specifically because they can't see it otherwise.
Josh was the only character there who actually deserved a happy ending. Obviously Hannah and Beth deserved one too but they died and kicked off the game. And I think Ashley wasn't there when Hannah and Beth went missing. One of the girls wasn't there when she went missing but as for everyone else they most certainly did not deserve a happy ending. Nothing Josh did was as bad as what they did as a "prank" to Hannah. Legit. What they did to her....it's completely unforgivable I'm pretty sure it's s a and illegal as well. They secretly filmed someone undressing without their consent under false pretenses. That's so beyond f***** up. And I really didn't like how Josh was painted as a psychopath and crazy to pull all of these elaborate pranks when that's exactly what those douchebags deserved. Honestly they deserved a lot f****** worse than what he did to them. So it really frustrated me how the devs so clearly painted him as the bad guy who didn't deserve a happy ending.
@@WhitneyDahlin ashley was there, when watching the video from the night a year ago, chris says "i forgot you were such a willing participant." the only one not involved in the prank was sam lol
@@SaraAson so the flamethrower guy had the wolves and was smoking? I didnt know who it was but seems like him
As someone who takes both antidepressants and antipsychotics let me just say that antidepressants can aggravate schizotypal symptoms if they aren't being countered by an appropriate dose of antipsychotics so not only was Josh being treated for an illness he didn't have, the one he did have was being worsened by the wrong treatment
Same
Jaelene nice nico avatar
Mind. Blown.
actually Sam IS a good person because she tried to stop the prank
kawaii kitty So is Chris, he passed out with Josh in the kitchen.
VoltageOverkill but still Chris is tortured the most by josh even though he had nothing to do with the death of Hannah and Beth. So I ask myself why?
Josh may not have known that or have just forgotten, his mind clouded by his illness he might have just automatically assumed they were all to blame
Chris was most tortured because it was Josh's way for Chris to make a move on Ashley. Earlier in the game, he says the only way you two would get together is through a traumatic experience. Which is exactly what happened (if you don't piss off Ashley that is)
I think that's shown through by the fact that Sam can only be killed at the very end with the Hannah-Wendigo encounter.
When Kylo Ren stabs his father: "IT WAS JUST A PRANK HAN!"
Lol
IT WAS JUST A PRANK HAN!
HAN PRANK A JUST WAS IT
omfg
Is it bad that I laughed?
But also in Josh's wikia, as well as somewhere in the game it's said that Josh's greatest fear is being absolutely alone. And when Hannah leaves him alive in the caves, he's left alone with absolutly nothing but a corpse and mental health issues, still suffering a lot. And in all of that, with the multiple spirits of Wendigos surrounding him, he went cannibalistic like his sister. And turned into a wendigo, which is sad because he can't be with his sisters in death until someone frees him
I think the bear trap the caught Mike wasn't a trap set by the psycho (aka Josh) but instead a trap set by the flamethrower guy to catch a Wendigo. It said in his journal that he would set traps in the mountains with human limbs (which he said were not needed anymore by the dead corpses in the mourge) to catch the Wendigo monsters so he wouldn't have to kill them and set their spirits free to possess another victim.
How exactly did they possess another victim? I know that was stated in the game but we never saw it happen.
According to the lore of the game there are only a set amount of Wendigo 'allowed.' As long as no one else takes up cannibalism on the mountain then it would all be fine, but as seen in the Josh lives ending Josh has become possessed and it implies he killed the police in the mines, so the problem is going to start right back up again with no Flamethrower Guy to contain them.
And it's implied that after he killed the Alpha Wendigo that it then possessed Hannah when she ate Beth.
That's why he locked them up rather than killed them the majority of the time.
Smart
@@CarTa3 According to the flamethrower guy's diary the spirit(curse)of the wendigo was first unleashed when the miners came to mine the mountain,when those 30 miners got trapped and 12-15 of them eventually escaped they were already possessed because hunger and desperation drove them to cannibalism.When these 12-15 miners went to the sanatorium they were already on the changing phase,that's why the doctor there locked them up and wanted to study them,eventually those miners escaped from their cells and killed all the others except the doctor who commited suicide(kinda).ALTHOUGH there is something that most of you forget.If you see the ''events of the past'' video,the flamethrower dude speaks off that the original wendigo spirit called ''makkapitew'' existed all along and he finally killed it the night hannah and beth died(from the looks of it i believe he possessed one of the tribe member that existed even before the miners went to the mountain so it was centuries old).In conclusion the curse of the wendigo was on the mountain all along,the miners triggered it and continued to exist even after the events of until dawn(well possibly,it depends if josh survives or not)
@@perfection2781 thanks for the lore I need that
Hanna gets severely injured and beth dies
"ITS JUST A PRANK HAN"
Yay wendigo time
it was just a prank bro
Emily after humiliating hannah to her death: “It was just a prank, Han!”
Wendigo Hannah after Ripping Emily’s eyes out: “it was just a prank, em!”
ELITE SAVAGE I mean the prank wasn’t to have them walk out in the cold and fall off a cliff. Hannah overreacted and ran out which led to Beth following her
@@datboisus3981 I don't think she overreacted. She was in a state of shock and just wanted to be away from them and instead of giving her space they ran towards her laughing. No one but Beth cared enough about her feelings to try to go and make her feel better. Also them mocking her by saying she can't take a joke when they had intent to record her getting undressed to hook up with some guy. The prank was to make her feel bad and record her embarrassment. Her running away to a place that they couldn't embarrass her any further isn't over reacting
I need a remastered version within the next 5 years, with josh getting a happy ending
And by happy ending I mean josh confessing his feelings to Sam (come on guys we all know this ship’s a thing) and then being arrested, going to jail or a mental asylum. The end :))
ANGSTY TEEN yeah but I think they would accept everything except for the Josh and Sam part.
Conner RK800 duuuudddeeee im literally playing Detroit become human right now 😂😂
ANGSTY TEEN here's a tip if you want Todd to die then get the gun and going to Alice's room.
Also if you just wait downstairs what Alice gets her butt whooped then she will die
As someone with systematic schizophrenia, I really appreciate that the game devs put him in as a character, so many people just tell me to back off or that I’m insane and I should be locked up but I’m content that there’s people like that out there. I just wanted to say thanks to the game devs and to matpat for spreading awareness for psychosis, and for the cool theory keep it up and I’ll try to as well
That's awful. Some people don't understand that the brain is complex, and that just because someone's brain works very different doesn't make them crazy or something. Sorry you had/have to go through that, dude.
your a craz
ily nice person
You don't have to answer if this is rude or anything, but I've always wondered about if theres anything thatll seem fake about your hallucinations (like if a visual hallucination is blurry or if an audio hallucination is echoey) or if your brain ignores that stuff?
@@memelescream4796 as someone who has both hallucinated and heard many a testimony from people with schizophrenia, hallucinations seem very real and scary, the only clues you can get that they’re hallucinations is the fact that nobody else hears, sees, or remembers these things, and if you have a low self image or deteriorated mind set then you probably won’t notice if something you’re hallucinating is unrealistic (low self image because I’ve known a lot of people to hallucinate that their friends are insulting them)
@@octosimp1717 question, ive heard some people say that if someone suspects theyre hallucinating, they should take out their phone and try to record it to see if its real. would you say thats a good method? or do you believe it wouldnt work in most cases?
Chris never did anything wrong; he was blackout drunk along with Josh. He never contributed to Hannah/Beth ultimate death.
Which is crazy because Josh fucks with him and Ashley the most with his "pranks" while the others are actually being terrorized by the wendigos. Makes Josh seem more like a douche for messing with his only one true friend who didn't even take part in the prank...
I luv Chris shsjskkakakak
Yami Wolf just theorizing but I think that was Josh's messed up way of trying to help Chris. When they first meet up at the cabin Josh tells Chris to act on his feelings for Ashley and make a move already; when Sam is helping Josh with the boiler he flat out says he thinks a tragic/traumatic event would be needed to bring Chris and Ashley together. Since he doesn’t intend to kill or seriously injure anyone, and he thinks his psycho games are ultimately just a prank, he uses his plans to give Chris chances to look good/prove his love for Ashley. He goes too far of course, but with his condition he couldn’t really see that.
WarriorAuranae yeah i noticed that too, after the comment about chris not making a move without a gun to his head and then acting out the scenario literally djwjd, wingman of the century
Josh chose his friends that could ''laugh off the prank''. He purposefully chose the people closest to him because he thought they would forgive him (easily) for the little prank he made for them. also yes Josh is wingmanning for Chris. they just need a life-death situation that brings them together.
Chris was unconscious as well, out cold with Josh.
+Hunter Plaskon And Sam wasn't in on the prank either. She comes in at the end. BUT none of the characters help Beth look for Hannah.
+Hunter Plaskon Sam didn't warn Hannah about the prank. Chris chooses to kill Josh, his best friend, just because he wants to bang Ashley.
+Eric Moreira not entirely. you can select save josh but either way josh rigged it so he'd 'die'.
Eric Moreira Actually Sam was on her way to stop it, it looks like. Also, you can choose to save Josh as Chris, but the saw blade always goes towards Josh, no matter your choice.
+Eric Moreira No I'm pretty sure Sam was trying to warn Hannah but couldn't find her in time
I'm here after Rami Malek won his well-deserved Oscar
Potage Potage glad i’m not the only one
I so wanted an Unitl Dawn 2 with Josh as the half wendigo. It would have been cool with you'd be able to save him, somehow.
I heard there was a AU or something based on that
@@errorbirdesther where?
@@kl-ni6fm can't remember where I found it
@@errorbirdestherI think it was called Exor!Josh au or something like that?
"Until dawn aint getting to me"
*JUMPSCARE*
*SHITS PANTS*
I think it got to him.
*****
im not sure :/
Scarycat
Before it happened, I accidentally scrolled down and missed it, but still heard it so i expected it.
+Blake Blast more like scaredymat
+CurriePlays "Undertale ain't getting to me."
*cries at killing Papyrus after being forced to genocide*
hey matpat, this video is suuuper old, but i guess i never got around to seeing it. from the point of someone who suffers from abulatory schizophrenia, the way you put my mental illness made me really happy. most schizophrenics like me are seen as monsters and crazy killers. im literally just a 17 year old kid on a ton of meds, that's all!! i do have delutions and episodes where i simply can't function, but i would never be lead to hurt anyone. this video is amazing! thanks for not showing the holywood version of something that affects my life everyday.
Thanks for sharing your story. Hope you're still doing well!
Hey, wanna hear what else MatPat here said? He says that having mental illness excuses you from the crime of psychologically torturing teens! Ain't that wonderful?
@@NeroCM You're part of the problem. People like you, who neither listen to others nor care about people in difficulties.
@@Contevent if you consider helding people accountable for their actions a problem, then I'm glad to be a part of it.
@@NeroCM You just said to a real person, with real struggles, that he could become like a character who tortured his friends. You insulted a 17 years old based on his mental state, and you still think you're one of the good guys?
2:40 Don't feel bad, since they may be supposed to be 17-18 years in the game, they are still portrayed by actors that are 25-30.
I always thought this had to be on purpose. Like they could have been the actors look like actual teenagers if they'd wanted to, so I felt like this was meant to be a nod to how 90s slasher horrors always had older actors playing highschoolers.
I've ALWAYS felt this way about Josh!! And the other characters are so incredibly quick to blame him but NO ONE talks about how responsible they are for the deaths of Hannah and Beth! I feel extremely bad for Josh... As a matter of fact, he's my favorite character.
It was just a hank, pran.
I sell propain & propain accessories
-displays knives for the propain- i am all propain
IIM SORRYYYYY
+SyKi That boy ain't right.
+SyKi {TORTURE PRANK} {ALMOST SHOT} {GONE SEXUAL}
+SyKi
I found that specially funny cuz I play Evolve a lot, and "Hank" is great character there, that can destroy a monster in a couple of seconds.
Man I think Chris was a good character because he isn’t able to kill anyone and he was passed out with josh when his sisters died
Actually Chris can TRY to kill some other characters, but he gets a bad karma if he does that
@@semperfi2314 well shooting ashley isn't evil. I did it to save her from death by sawblades (in case the psycho didn't stop his trap after chris would shoot himself)
@@leonpaelinck No indeed i don't think whatever choice you'll make can be considered as evil in a such situation - i just bounced on the fact that Chris can't kill anyone by saying the he can just try.
The whole sawblade thing is here to press you to make a decision. That worked quite well with me on my first playthrough - fortunately, i decided to shoot Chris so Ashley wouldn't leave him outside later.
And unfortunately he didn't even make it to the door i missed the last QTE and hannah decapitated him X(
@@semperfi2314
How would you like to die?
A) shot once in the head with minimal pain
B) slowly getting your head split by blades
Obvious choice for me and I see where Leon was going with this.
Also how did you not make it to the door? It’s ez.
@@MonkeyGoatLicker Actually i prefer death by sawblades than getting killed by my bf AND crush who told me 10 seconds ago "i'll get you out of this, i won't let you die". But as i said before, i was talking about Chris's incapacity to kill off other characters. Not about whether if it's correct or not to shoot Ashley. That's it
“The village bicycle were everyone gets his ride”
I CANT BREATHE
LMAO
Who cares if its a common expression? People aren't allowed to laugh?
THE1NONLY1 it's still funny
You know, if you think about it, Chris is kind of innocent. He didn’t take part in the prank as he was seen passed out with Josh. Also, depending on your choices, I would argue that Chris is the nicest guy in the group
Chris and Sam are innocent, Chris was passed out and Sam was trying to warn Hannah about the prank
I know this was two years ago, but Josh probably wouldn't know either of those two things, assuming he didn't try asking what everyone's roles in the prank afterwards - He could have been just simply grudging in silence while not knowing Sam and Chris had absolutely nothing to do with it.
I think it's also worth mentioning that the Wendigo is symbolic of Josh's inability to escape his disorder. Josh is killed directly by a monster that is born from desperation. The Wendigo was unleashed when humans were forced to eat their fellow humans because they had no other options. Josh was forced to endure the results of misguided medication. I think that makes this story all the more interesting.
josh was killed by his own wendigo sister
@@arielx60Or baptized as a fellow Wendigo.
I really like this analysis, but I'd have to disagree. The true TRUE hero is clearly flamethrower guy
The flamethrower guy is the writer of the game.. He has also directed a movie called The Wendigo.. He died in the game because of Chris.. During the scene, Chris comes in between him and Hannah.. So he stops the flames allowing Hannah to get the upper hand..
Really? Kind of feel the opposite. He saw the two fall down into the mines and never went down to check and see if they survived. He couldn't have been afraid to go down there as he saved Emily down in the mines a year later, when there was actually a windego threat (the girl he DIDN'T save a year ago). I'd assume he had the miners all locked up by then as he only mentions going after one of them that had eluded him in that tape. He kills it and then. . . leaves?.
@@kittymagica6408 He probably thought that Hannah and Beth died in the fall, Hannah was extremely lucky/unlucky to survive the fall
@@jsjeshwjufuwugduwudwie2052 Assuming that is the case, he should still have reported it, to the local police. Even if he is a wanted man, what can they do to arrest him for murder without any evidence?
Now assuming he would have been arrested .In this case, he should have a left a note in the nearby police station. is that really hard. He is usually seen hanging around cable car situation without any reason than to stalk the teens. He should instead have used the stealthiness to good use and reported the case through some sort of message to the local authorities .
Nah he is, in fact, the villain. he could have clearly avoided this entire fiasco.
This game is what made me fall in love with Rami Malek
I fell in love with him in Night at the Museum
Your gonna love my profile picture 😂
He's the best in The Pacific it's a HBO miniseries he's fucked up
wait thats actually him?
It restarted my childhood obsession with him... still haven’t recovered
" *Hello friends* and fans"
There's no Rami Malek without "Hello friend"
Dead this comment is perfect
Josh is actually my favourite character, second favourite is Sam
AnnaWonderland same
Holy crap me too
He's up there for me too. Right next to Sam and Chris.
AnnaWonderland mine is wolfie.
josh is my fourth favirote cause you can't forget about Ashley and Chris
The hand trap that resulted in the removal of Mark's fingers wasn't designed by Josh. It was a moving hand designed by Mr. Exposition himself (the unnamed hunter) to trap a Spider Zombie, because they sense movement. It was also mentioned in his journal that he removed dead human limbs (since they didn't need them) to aid in luring and trapping SpiderZombies. I just realized this while watching through a playthrough.
JustARandomAmerican IIRC the hunter's name was Eugene
Who is Mark
Natsu Jean oh hai mark
JustARandomAmerican they're called wendigos not SpiderZombies
Natsu Jean I think they meant mike
Okay just to be clear, Sam and Chris had NOTHING to do with the prank. Sam refused and Chris was passed out
Syrus Angi and yet he gave them the hardest time
Syrus Angi josh was passed out, not chris
Keithixix 197
They where both passed out.
Gaming Frenzy Chris and Josh were both passed out, Chris was Josh’s best friend, Sam was Hannah’s best friend and she went to go look for Hannah instead of participate in the prank
As he said, Josh was delusional. If he can blame himself for his sister's deaths, he could think anybody else was responsible too.
Josh was my favorite character in the game I’m sad he never got a happy ending I just want to give him a hug
I mean, not right now. He'd eat ur face. But, maybe if he wasn't a wendigo. 👍🏽
@@PxndaCakes yeAh but I have a helmet so I’ll be fine oh no I no longer have a helmet shig
Well I mean Chris was passed out drunk and Sam tried to stop it. They weren't really to blame for the prank.
yes they were it wasn't a prank it was hazing Hannah its so clear shes only friends with them cause of her brother and sister other then that they don't like her. plus how you tell an older brother we prank'd you sister and we lost them sorry
garnet terra actually, Sam is Hannah's best friend, says so in her description
I'm gonna throw something else into this. Mike and Jess, the two people most responsible for the prank, are sent to the guest cabin while the rest of this goes down. if not for the wendigos, those two would have spent a quiet night together while the rest were tortured.
Ree maybe he was trying to torture them but he couldnt find them because they left the cabin so early
WalkthroughHorde There is a theory Josh was trying to hook Chris up with Ashley, also Josh had no idea, he couldn't know who helped and who didn't, why would you say "I murdered your sisters" Sam probably would be linked to it no matter what, because she wasn't good enough to stop it anyway.
Wait, I don't think Sam should be included on the "Bad People" list due to the fact that she tried to stop the prank from happening but was a second too late. This is why Hannah saves her from the other Weindigo at the end of the game. Even though you can blow everyone up if you choose wrong Sam has done nothing wrong. But hey, That's just my theory guys. :-P
Chris was pasted out too
Well I agree with that, but she also didn't go running after Hannah. So I'll put her in the grey zone for now.
Kpopislife16 Chris shouldn't be in there either since he was drinking with josh
Ozzie Edwards That's true
fear is the illusion I didn't see that part. I just remember seeing Josh laying on the table passed out. I'll go back again & look. :-)
I have a very close friend who's only now being diagnosed with schizophrenia, after having a diagnosis for ocd and manic depression for about 5 years and yea understanding mental illnesses is so so so important
+Colegame Well, it's a very good video
CoreExen ocd is living hell I don't know what you're talking about
K... "It's important." Best argument ever.
Josh was my favorite character from start to finish. he's charismatic, hilarious, great story arch, and just seems like a cool guy to hang with..
Yeah...?
It was really sad to see majority of players hate Josh throughout the entire game. I can understand towards the beginning, but it’s even sadder when people still hate him after discovering his mental illness. The poor guy truly can’t help it. Like Matt said, the best decision you can make is to forgive Josh.
j h
I'm sorry, but I disagree. I have mental illnesses, but it's not an excuse for being an asshole. I don't hate Josh, but he's still responsible for his actions and his irresponsibility and sadism, both characteristics which make me dislike him.
I don't really hate him, because I thought it was just because of his sisters that's why he did those things, and he also didn't have any connections with the wendigos. And also the fact that it's Rami Malek, I can't hate him.
Red Firefly
oh, so you're schizophrenic and recently stopped taking your meds? Because that's what Josh is.
If you really had a mental illness you'd realise they're not really similar to each other, and that the withdrawal from your meds can throw you through one hell of a god damn loop.
And if you want to talk about responsibility for our actions; He didn't kill anyone. He was never going to. Sure it's fucked up to put your "friends" through psychological torture but that's exactly what those "friends" did to his sister.
He might not be the "good guy" but he's definitely not the "bad guy"
It's a gross exaggeration to refer to the other characters' mean joke as "torture." Am I excusing the fact that they did it? No. But it's just the kind of mean-spirited, dumb, poorly planned stuff that vapid teenagers do. It did result in death, but that wasn't the intended outcome, nor was it something I imagine they could possibly have foreseen happening. It's funny, though, that you choose to ignore that and instead emphasize how *Josh* didn't meant for anyone to die.
What Josh ultimately set out to do, though, was nothing short of monstrous. And medication withdrawal does not even begin to justify an extremely involved, premeditated plan to horrifically traumatize people. Schizophrenia does not justify cruelty. Nothing justifies that level of inhumane behavior. He's just a sadist, which is why he chose to punish people who weren't even involved in the prank. The added factor of his mental illness makes him pitiable, sure, but it's not what makes him so depraved.
Part-Time Party Time Sure withdrawal is painful. Sure my mental illness isn't as bad as his. Sure being given the wrong medication does suck. But you're still responsible for your own actions. If you keep experiencing mental illness, shouldn't you try seeing another professional or communicate to them how badly the treatment is going? Josh comes from a very rich family, so surely all this is within his means. However he instead chooses to create an extremely expensive and sadistically torture arena for his former friends.
Furthermore, even though he didn't kill anyone, the stress he put his friends through could have resulted in a panic attack or worse. It will certainly leave them with emotional scars. To conclude, Josh is an interesting and well written character, but still a bad guy for what he did.
I can't believe I haven't gotten around to watching THIS theory yet, that was an amazing breakdown of the game. As a person studying psychology in college and as a person with mental illness myself, I appreciate all the awareness you brought here. Thanks Matt, this was awesome.
@Ocean Blue but you can't say his illness is completely unrelated to his motive, he is driven to do all of this because of his guilt and it push him further when he is halucinating his sisters told him he is guilty so no, he might be the one at fault but it mostly that doctor fault who can't cure him in the right way.
@Ocean Blue well, except he is already scizophenic when he is planning all of that my friend the doctor interview show us that he interview him likely happen before he planned all of that torture and he is already unstable at this point, he basically already insane althought insane might be too strong words more like mentally disturbed at this point and i never seen the case where mentally disturbed person person can't plan.
@Ocean Blue well never, but there is a case where insane people never get blamed and that's a fact here even if they do murder, i can't speak for other country because they might have different law. Of course idk the insane man motive but he can get away with murder here if they proved to be insane, of course people like that still getting arrested but not to jail but Asylum until they show symptom of recovering or else they stuck in there forever but that' s if that guy has family who guarantee them or something, idk what happen to those who didn't have one anymore.
@Ocean Blue I'm absolutely baffled by your "psychosis can only last a few hours" argument. That isn't remotely how mental illness works. Duration of psychosis varies significantly and CAN last months, which is very likely what Josh was experiencing.
@reza cool story bro/sis.
Dr.Hill: *Exists*
Matpat: I'm bout to end this man's whole career
Thank God. Terrible medical practice.
I sure hope so
He represents all the terrible professionals out there so he deserves it this topic needs awareness
I was under the impression that it was Josh interpretation of Dr Hill, I actually wonder if Dr Hill wasn't a bad clinician, as evidenced my the multiple out of hours messages to try and check on his patient.
The problem with mental illness is that it can be suuuper tricky. It doesn't always present in a clear cut way, Josh is 18, so some of the more sever symptoms may only just be presenting *now* exacerbated by the death of his sisters. As you could see at the start Josh was a bit better at keeping it together.
Some of the things that Matt Pat didn't list that are part of schitzophrenia is a flat and blunted affect, they appear very flat and unemotional alot of the time. This is a shared symptom with chronic depression, and in that context it may make sense why at 18 he hadn't quite reached his diagnosis yet.
@miss cool story sis.
I also found it very interesting that everytime you "visit" the psychiatrist the atmosphere gets more threatening and darker. The doc also seams to get more aggressive and the building looks more and more broken.
Maybe Josh felt threatened when going to the doctor and feels unsafe when he is there. I know it's just a minor little detail but when the doctor asks you questions for example: "What are you more afraid of?" and you always answer with "Snakes", on your next visit there will be a snake in a glass on the table. Maybe Josh was trying to open up, but then was scared to get confronted by the doctor and felt helpless in his hands.
Also I noticed that it always feels like Dr. Hill ends the session in the middle of a question. It always made me feel like he wants to get rid of you as fast as possible.
I also think Josh particularly chose Chris and Ashley for his game to get them together. When Josh and Sam go down the basement, depanding on which option you choose, Josh says something like this, regarding Chris and Ashley: "Maybe they need some sort of traumatic experience to get together...."
As you said: He is delusional so maybe he truly thought to help Chris to get with Ashley.
What I also thought was kinda strange that Hannah, as Wendigo doesn't seam to be as beastly as the others. When Mike and Jess are in the cabin and well... starting to have a fun time we see that the Wendigo is watching them. It could easily break the window but it watches them. Also it places Jessica's phone right on the doorstep for her to come out. The Wendigo could easily kill Jessica and then go after Mike, but it just draggs her away. I'm not a 100% sure if it is really Hannah, but if it is her she might be jealous and wanted to get Jessica.But this "theory" kinda outplays itself when we clearly see that Hannah (as Wendigo) can crush Josh's head... So yeah
I just recently replayed the game and now I'm obsessed again. xD
The psychiatrist is Josh's externalized normality. He went to several different shrinks, last one genuinely tried to help him, but blabla misdiagnosis.
Then his sisters died and *Josh rejected what the Doc represented: Compassion, conformity, consequences.* He went YOLO in the worst way. Which you can see when his prank delusion collapses.
(OBVIOUS SPOILER) ...
Did anyone else realized how the wendigo Hannah protects Mike many times? I bet yes, it's pretty damn obvious. I've thinking of that since the beginning of the game.
When Mike is going to the cabin with Jessica they are being followed by a wendigo, and that wendigo doesn't attack them (it just keep stalking through the woods). When they come to the cabin, the 'mysterious' wendigo is still stalking them, this time through the windows, so when Jessica asks Mike to close the window the mysterious (hannah) wendigo gets upset/jealous and throw Jessica's lost phone through another window to call their attention. Until that part, the wendigo is peacefully following them (because of Mike, of course??), but when Jessica screams that they'll have sex and all that crap, the wendigo gets mad, which can actually confirm that the wendigo is really Hannah, since she was in a platonic love with Mike all the time. The wendigo hannah gets Jessica and leave her to the mines, but doesn't kill her (!), another point that confirms that the wendigo is hannah. Wendigos have a uncontrollable desire for human meat but that one keep Jessica alive, meaning that the wendigo Hannah doesn't have enough courage to kill her friend. Another time is when Mike finds Josh in the mines and they are trying to return from it, then they go through the water and the wendigo Hannah gets Mike first, but let him out, then gets Josh and bring him back. And finally, when everyone returns to Josh's house, many wendigos are inside of it trying to kill them all, but the wendigo Hannah is trying to protect them (especially Mike, again). If you choose to make Mike the last one alive, there'll be a scene when the wendigo Hannah sees him and try to approach, that time Mike blows everything, and in a couple frames you can see a sad/surprised/disappointed face on the wendigo Hannah that was trying to touch Mike. Man that's just sick, disturbing!
+Gabriel Azevedo Your theory is pretty believable but I found a flaw. Fail too many QTE's and take all of the long routes around when chasing the Wendigo that grabbed Jessica and you'll find her with her jaw ripped off.
Theshadow34 All right I didn't know that Jessica could die that part. But anyway, how about the other ones? When Mike got drowned by the Hannan wendigo and when Hannan wendigo attacks the other wendigo to prevent it to killing Mike? I think the game is trying to show this for us by these scenes, how Hanna is suffering and how she can recognize him and still she will try to reach him (at the last part in Josh's house) (which I found very sad/disturbing).
I just pointed out that Hannah Wendigo could kill her "friends". Your theory however is possible due to how near the final part of the game, Mike goes underwater while traveling with Josh and boom Hannah Wendigo pops up and, depending on how the game played out, kills or drags Josh away, leaving Mike alive.
Yeah that part nearly confirmed that this theory is true. This game has many hidden messages tho
hey now I figured out THIS IS TOTALLY TRUE! OOMG lool
Can I just mention that any horror game with the suggestion to NOT MOVE is almost as cool as one telling you to not make a sound when you're wearing a headset because then that means even the slightest movement will kill you and this is a realistic thing. if a monster or even animal that bases it's hunting skills from movement senses you moving, you are dead and to think people are criticizing this mechanic is kind of sad because this is probably as close to said "Don't make a sound" mechanic we'll ever get and it's also very realistic because if you are scared and holding a controller, there's a good chance you'll be shaking so this tests your ability of willpower at the same time....
continue on.
True.
Hell, I don't even think I'd survive in their situation. I probably would have.lots of sudden movement.
true, but I think the complaints come from the mechanic not always working properly. It's a great idea that just needed to be fine tuned a bit more
Ace19444 It actually does work properly, but most people don't know how it works. Here's what happens: If the don't move segment is really long, like at the end of the game with Sam, then the little blue shape will slowly move toward the white edge on its own and you have to slightly move the controller in the opposite direction to keep it inside. I know that sounds dumb but it's the only way to make sure people don't cheat by putting the controller on the ground.
+Faizaan lastname How could you cheat by putting the remote on the ground? It vibrates too so it would move. It can't stay still unless you hold it.
I've never played the game, but Josh has a special spot in my heart.
same
PLAYYY IT you wont regret it
12:45 “The true monster is pyschological disorder. It strikes randomly, has no mercy and gives you no chance to escape. No chance to run and hide.”
damn.... that really hits different.
It does
Go watch his joker theories on film theory
There is a quote I think you will understand
Hmm, honestly my money is on the Wendigo's as the true monsters here.
@@talyn7448 the spirit of the wendigo at least
If you stretch it far enough, every villain has a psychological disorder to some degree
@@madensmith7014or just plain evil or psychopaths
Can we take a second to talk about how a random UA-camr knows that a fictional character has schizophrenia yet half of the time psychiatrists can't prescribe the right medicine...?
Now I understand where you are coming from and I see very valid points in your argument. But I'm talking about all the stories I've heard from friends, family, and even my own personal experiences. Once I was prescribed some Lexapro and after my first dose I was informed that it was all a mental practice for the first week. Obviously, that totally ruined the medicine for me. It's simple things like that that totally mess up what psychiatrists are trying to figure out.
Well, not quite random but that doesn't make it any different. Doctors should tet their crap together
josh is fictional character, we can see everything and we can repeat the game to analyze it again. also google and theorys from other people can help. real people just came to your cabinet and pretending to be a normal. that's a gigantic difference.
also met in older videos have said that he had a degree in psychology
+RANDOMASIANGUY1 mat*
What really makes me mad about the 'prank' is how they seem to think that just because they think it's a joke it's perfectly fine
Someone at my school who I didn't know but is in a couple of my classes pulled a plastic bag over my head from behind without warning and he and his friend just kept saying that it was a joke as if that makes it ok to do to anyone especially someone they don't know
im sorry that happened to you, bullies will say anything to make what they did not look bad.
@@daydreams6956 jokes are told not done to people, i feel like people forget that
Happens to me too they will just say It was just a prank dude or it was just a joke
I know the feeling. When I was a kid my "friend" would do things like choke me from behind or push books on my head and say it was just a joke. But jokes are supposed to be funny, and for the benefit of the person on the receiving end. If I could go back in time, I would have looked her dead in the eye and asked, "How is that funny? Explain it to me." And waited and watched her stutter as she tries to find something that doesn't make her look like an asshole.
cool story bro
2018, still waiting for that magic towel theory...
Saaaaaaame
Yep.
Yay I'm not the only one!!!!
Still waiting
exactly
I believe there's more to josh than being the villain here, imagine having friends, some known long enough to be considered family and because of them he lost two sisters in one night completely taking his quality of life away where he has to be medicated probably way more than before to just barely scrape the surface. What he did wasn't right and they weren't in the right either. He was ill and the trauma made it way worse and i feel so sorry for him because i can't imagine that feeling and i understand where he comes from but what he did to counter his feelings wasn't right and should've stayed on the medication, but overall he was never a bad character or villain. Trauma and him being ill as it is, he couldn't think for himself anymore
Rage pushing him on a warped path.
It's been six years. Did anyone finally tell this guy he's😮😢 completely wrong?
Play the game as an insane wendigo who made Hannah eat Beth then revealed himself as Josh before she died.
Yeah I'd say she's mad about more than the prank.
Aww I loved Josh and Rami Malek did a fantastic job playing him
Maybe Josh goes after Chris a lot because he feels he betrayed him most cause they were both passed out but Josh didn't know that. They were best friends and he thinks he contributed to his sisters death. For Sam, he also doesn't know she didn't contribute. It's kind of obvious that Josh liked Sam so he feels she also betrayed him more than the others... He's closest to them and even though they're the two good characters, they "betrayed" him the most.
Edit: If you're someone who thinks Josh doesn't like Sam, then another addition to my comment is this: Sam and Hannah were best friends. So Josh may also of gone after her FOR his sister.
Haylei chocolateraisinlookinass
yeah I agree but at the end credits she stated that after Hannah's and Beth's disappearance he'd only talk to Sam, And said they had a connection. She probably would've told him what happen. That's why he didn't put her apart of his games. He only chased her, and tied her up in a completely separate room.
Haylei chocolateraisinlookinass
yeah I agree but at the end credits she stated that after Hannah's and Beth's disappearance he'd only talk to Sam, And said they had a connection. She probably would've told him what happen. That's why he didn't put her apart of his games. He only chased her, and tied her up in a completely separate room.
He must've known that Chris was passed out because they had video footage of the prank. I'm thinking either it was Chris's idea to get that drunk that Josh passed out or Josh is just trying to get Ashley to see how much Chris cares about her that he'd die to save her.
Rachel Blossom Queen Katara Very true! I didn't think of that XD
Haylei chocolateraisinlookinass Maybe Josh was just trying to create a bonding experience for Chris and Ashley. Hero wingman.
Monsters that eat humans and kill them with ease while being really hard to kill are probably the true monsters
You're not you when you're hungry.
The monsters ur talking about are called a windigo
Jarham The Friendmaker And you aren’t you when you are hungry aka a wendigo lmao
Jarham The Friendmaker here have a snikers... better?
Hihihi Elegans better! :)
Fun Fact: This episode is the highest rated episode of Game Theory on IMDB with a 9.4/10 just beating “FNAF Sister Location DECODED” which has a 9.1/10
"Until Dawn Ain't Getting Me"
*Screams Within Two Seconds*
18-20 is legal age everywhere. most places it is actually lower.
earlier in the game some are 17
+VengfulDarkness There are places where consent age is 19. Others where consent doesn't exist unless there is marriage. I believe there is a few places where it is 21 as well, but I can't find them again after a cursory search. However, in Canada where the game is set, it is perfectly legal.
+TheOnlyAlchimous in japan the age is 13
Their trying , prevent arranged marriages
christian mcgregor And that's not relevant. Good job.
Finally someone else feels the way I do about Until Dawn. I hated that you couldn't save Josh. There was always obviously something wrong with him. Josh's whole part in the storyline is sad. I always felt sad for his outcome, and the fact that his sisters death made it worse.
Also everyone else in the game is a bunch of douchebags. Except maybe Sam and Chris. Maybe.
You would get fucked up if your loved ones died
I feel so sorry for Josh because I have a cousin who has skiptofrinia.
Chianti Wilson
Amazon McLeod Why Do You Capitalize Every First Letter In Every Word.
Chianti Wilson I know they try shoving mike as the hero of the story when in reality he is the biggest asshole
After all these years Josh finally gets a happy ending
Actually, Sam (my favorite character) she did not have anything to do with the prank. Sam was trying to find Hannah to tell her about it. My evidence, Sam said in the beginning "Don't you guys think this is a little cruel?" You also see Sam trying to find Hannah. People think she was trying to find her to tell her that Mikes waiting for her upstairs, but why would Sam do that? 1, Hannah was Sam's bestfriend, and 2, Why would they leave a note? Josh talked to Sam BECAUSE she did not kill his sisters.
sam is not like the others they think "oh lets just record this" just a prank....ok that is TO FAR the parents will probaly tell their parents except sam
Matpat: "The villan is far more menacing than a gangling spider zombie..."
Me: IT IS THE TOWEL
...wtf 😂😂
Game theory made a CinemaSins reference.
My life is now complete.
lol wut about 50 shades eppisode
He did that multiple times.
One that sticks out is when princess peach kisses Mario on his nose, he used the "this scene does not contain a lap dance" reference
CinemaSins is the definition of cancer.
+OrangeBurrito You did NOT just say that.
***** I did.
So what?
(btw sorry for making you scroll down forever)
This is in my opinion probably the most plausible theory yet.
its possible but is it plausible
do u mean pause able or possible?
josh having mental issues was supposed to be obvious. there is no "theory" here.
and you should try googling before asking ignorant questions.
*IT WAS JUST A PRANK HAN*
Paige Lee *strangles you* none of that *opens the doors and wendigos walk walk in the room* get her *they attack you*
Paige Lee it’s just a hank pran
That's about to be a meme...
Paige Lee lol
wow dark bitch
Wait a second Matt. Chris didn't do anything. He and Josh were out cold after drinking. Sam was also only semi-aware of what was going on. Also, have you noticed how if Chris is still alive by Chapter Ten, nothing will kill him?
Not true! You can blow up the house before he leaves.
@Vpirate Nope, Sam doesn't even get the option to "Run to Switch" until after Chris runs out of the lodge.
@@vkdragonfire2123 You can have the "no survivors" ending, including Chris. He blows up with everyone else.
@@TommyTonk No they're saying that if you keep Chris alive by the last chapter, he can't die. Of course Chris can die before that, as Call Me Kevin did, but he can't die in the lodge at the end. He's already out of the lodge before anyone else is.
@@ktuck222 I thought that that was who they killed in their playthrough of the game? Am I wrong? If so who was it? I genuinely don't know
"They‘re 18 and 19 years old"
"Under the age of consent"
no dawg that’s not how that works
Exactly, that above the age of consent. Maybe his fake reactions messed up his judgment
Inconsistent Content I like your channel name
The living characters in the game are 18/19, but Josh's sisters were younger than him. Plus the prank that got the twins killed was the year before the game takes place, so the girls were only 16 or 17 years old when they died.
Sasha Denae the statement wasn‘t about them dying so that was entirely irrelevant I must say
@@HeroKings not the deaths themselves but the CAUSE of their deaths, the prank where one of the girls was tricked into stripping on camera and in front of all of her "friends" - at age 16 or 17. Sorry, I should've been more clear as to why I was referencing that scene.
The prank was actually Jessica's idea. She was Emily's best friend then and "was just looking out for her girl, em" not to mention she never seems sorry for it and then hooks up with her best friend's boyfriend after having an affair with him. Definitely worse character
to be fair
you can blame Jess, but EVERYONE went along with it / minus sam and the siblings/
so technically it's everyone's fault, they all hid and giggled.
Ashley is imo worst character
But why did Hannah run outside instead of you know in her own room up stairs?
At least, she was acting out of jealousy. Ash enjoyed the prank out of sheer sadism.
Well after what she went through, I think she went through enough
You can't think straight when you are filled with negative emotion. In Hannah's case, embarrassment and betrayal. Hannah was humiliated and just wanted to get out of there and out of there she did
Hey, at least Josh won an Oscar!
He shouldn't have.
@@keeganshigh wtf?!
keeganshigh stfu ✨
keeganshigh he was a really good actor tho
So................
we're just gonna ignore the towel?
k.
aiyxnnx it was just....
*A PRANK HAN*
12:53
Honestly this is a really sad truth, like... The system isn't good enough at the minute, people aren't getting the help they need (some are and to them I'm happy for) but some people just aren't
I KNEW I LIKED JOSH FOR A GOOD REASON
:^>
I still think he's a creepy killer... #neverforgivejosh
I still think he's a creepy killer... #neverforgivejosh
Ok
Ok
OK. The bear trap that got Mike's fingers wasn't set up by Josh, It was set up by Flame Thrower Guy to catch Wendigo's ( You find this out in the journal entries from Flame Thrower Guy's journal ). Josh never did anything to hurt his friends physically, he thought it was joke to mess with them which did probably hurt all of them mentally. Josh didn't realize that Wendigo's were on the mountain so he didn't know about the traps set by Flame Thrower Guy to catch the Wendigo.
Also, the thing with Ashley. She stabbed him with scissors, and he didn't mean to hurt her. He was going to drug her but he lashed out cause he wasn't planning on her defending herself. I'm not justifying what he had done to Ashley if she did get punched in your play through or someone else's but he wasn't planning on hurting any of his friends, so he just lashed out when one decided to defend herself.
Right on both accounts.
Leah Gibson yeah and when u think about it most if not all deaths were usally by windagos
Exactly! Everyone else can kill except for Josh, Josh doesn't want to kill anyone. He just wants to scare his friends with a prank that is not really a prank and he never does anything to physically hurt someone, except for the thing with Ashley which I've explained already.
Well unless u count that head in the windago ending
i don't think there is any justification for what Josh did to everyone (especially since it was centered so much around Chris and Sam, the only ones not participating in the prank) but I do think the game delivers a pretty solid explanation and I was crushed that Josh died either way and that he was the only one you couldn't save
The only crushed for me was josh's head, but whatever.
Not really sure about this, but I believe the main motivation behind Josh's 'prank' was based on his self-hatred and sense of being emotionally isolated from his friends. Did you see how much he rubbed it in Chris and Sam's faces that he was sawed in half? Josh wanted so badly for his friends to believe he deserved love, because after he failed to save Hannah and Beth, he completely abhorred himself. I'm sure a lot of people have wondered how much their friends really care about them, but for this schizophrenic kid who is not getting the medication he needs, he doesn't see anything wrong with actually experimenting with their love. He can't tell what's realistic anymore. Can you psychologically torture your friends and expect them to forgive you? Hell no! He does not deserve their support after doing that to them. He deserves punishment.
But don't forget that he is _constantly_ being psychologically tortured by delusions and hallucinations. It's part of his life. And they're so vivid, even we initially believe they're real. Whole rooms and people and voices and music? I would believe it! From what we've seen of his hallucinations, they're always analysing him, probing him for his true nature, or aggressively guilt-tripping him. I believe it's a mirror into his self-perception. Everything those hallucinations say to him is something he believes somewhere in his mind. He's so out of it. I wonder if he even knows what he's doing. Maybe he believes everybody deserves to know what it feels like to have killed someone. He feels like he killed his sisters, after all.
So those are two things I believe: 1, Josh wants to see how much his friends love him, and 2, he is truly no longer able to distinguish between what is a revelatory prank and what is an unforgivable act of mental torture.
Now for the third motivation. It's possible Josh threw Chris and Ash around so much because he wanted them to get closer through their experience. It is alluded that he genuinely wants Chris to make a move, but believes he never will because he's too shy and awkward. Josh weaved the torture devices in a way that Chris would be forced to get Ash out of some awful situations and that she would love him for it. I think Josh actually thought he was helping them. It's disgustingly twisted. And he was so bonkers, he thought they would all be able to laugh it off and thank him for his 'stimulating' intervention. At the shed where Chris and Mike were tying him up, he said something along the lines of 'This isn't how this was supposed to go'. He really expected a DIFFERENT REACTION. How?? Crazy!
One thing I'm pretty sure about is that he was planning to do some particularly nasty stuff to Mike and Jess when he was done with his besties. Separate cabin and everything? That is way too suspicious. And how about the fact that Emily lost her precious bag? She doesn't seem like the type to forget about such an important piece of luggage. The fact that Josh then locks her and Matt out of the lodge when they return only makes me surer that Josh intended for them to be separated from the others as well.
TL;DR: I believe something was intended for all of them, but it did not go as planned because Matt and Em ran off to the fire tower, and Mike and Sam ended up in the torture chamber to rescue Chris and Ash.
Ah, so it's not within his own rights to want to avenge his siblings' murders?
Raging Gamer The gang didn't murder them; there was no way they could have known what would happen. Josh wasn't trying to punish them for murder, he was punishing them for cruelty. The irony is that he was even crueller. And I say this as someone who loves Josh as a second favourite character. He was _ruthlessly_ cruel, but I believe he meant well, as sick as that sounds.
Thelving the Wing That's like saying people who bully others to suicide are innocent.
Their direct actions is the cause of their deaths.
The prank they pulled on Hannah was especially cruel when you consider that she was the "shy girl" who was a bit sheltered, sensitive and very nervous. That trip to the cabin was the FIRST TIME she went out there! Imagine if you went to a high school party for the first time as a shy, socially-awkward bean and got ruthlessly mocked by someone you had a crush on, while everyone else laughed. That trip to the cabin was her first time coming out of her shell, and everyone knew that...
"It wAs jUSt a pRANk hAaAAaaAnnnN!"
I've always felt bad for Josh. It was obvious to me that he was mentally ill and he was already suffering from the loss of both his sisters, but apparently some folks missed this. I think it's easy to not take Josh's illness seriously because this game is so campy (in the best ways! Still a great game!), but it really can hit home when you look past the camp.
I don't believe his illness excuses his actions, but it definitely explains them and it's sad to imagine that he went undiagnosed. I wonder if his symptoms started to hit home right around the death of his sisters... That might have been so hard to catch, especially when you have a grieving family at the same time.
Welp, now that family has no children. I wonder if we could get an Until Dawn sequel starring Josh's parents in some way... Maybe they'd confront all of the kids that went to the cabin. I mean, seriously, TWICE they went to the cabin and got their kids killed. First the twins, then their surviving son. There is a lot of potential here... Especially if Josh remains alive as a wendigo.
I actually liked Josh in the game :(
Almost everything you mentioned were also my personal feelings about him. Like..he is not a bad guy..he just needed help and support from his friends..or..anybody. He needed help to deal with everything he's been through. But he never got it.
But when you mentioned that he has no choice.. it broke my heart again. I was complaining about not being able to give him a "happy end" and not being able to save him. But I didn't think about the fact that he really had no choice. .. Ever! :( This makes it even more tragic for me :(
But your theory of how he got treated wrong by the doctors tops it all ...
I shouldn't feel so much for a character that doesn't exist in real life..but I do. He just has a very..VERY tragic story and in my opinion he deserves much better than this :(. I would have saved him no matter what.. He has been through so much and he deserves to have a "normal life" ..or at least get the CHANCE to recover from everything that happened..
But he never did. And.. that just made me sad.. And it still does :'/
...yeah and sorry about that :'D ..I guess I really liked him a lot :'D
... Still not over his "destiny".. I finished the game yesterday :| ...xD
Josh became my favourite character because i could deeply relate to him.
As while playing the game and finding all the clues, while looking at all the medications he took, i knew something was wrong. Everytime i came back to the game i cry because i knew josh will die no matter what, and he will be forever misunderstood by his friends. :(
i just read some of some of your comment cuz i don’t feel like reading all of that
you guys should watch mr robot. the actor is really awesome. i felt for josh too. and all the md's not realizing schizophrenia played a part was either a plot hole or used to tie the plot. actually maybe josh never talked about his hallucinations knowing it wasnt socially normal or maybe he never felt safe talking about what was really going on. and the sad thing is there probably wasnt a happy ending for him bc he was the scapegoat for the game. and it's more socially accepted that he gets no chance at a happy ending. which may unfortunately be a microcosm to how society views people suffering from/dealing with mental illness
Donny C maybe he didn't realize they were hallucinations and not real?
Josh only think that it's socially ok cause of what the other did
The ending to this video actually made me tear up a bit.
My brother passed away April 22nd, 2014. From a unique seizure that caused him not to be in his right mind and caused an accidental unaware suicide.
But prior to it all, he had passed out in the bathroom roughing up his face pretty bad on the floor vent.
After seeing a doctor and being told everything was fine, the next day he went to work and crashed his car through a metal rail and landed in an embankment. Nobody was hurt, however he had some bruises and the car was ruined.
But again... he was given the all clear sign from doctors.
And the next day at work he passed out and was rushed to a hospital by ambulance.
And of course... no help was given. The next day would be his last. It all struck so suddenly, and he was vigilant about trying to get help. And he was scared. And nobody did anything for him... he didn't get a choice.
I miss him so damn much it hurts. After he passed I met 3 females with the exact same type of seizures. Who were getting sufficient care. I took it as a sign, and have been currently trying to start a charity in his name for that specific type of seizure.
Anyway, this video was really REALLY great. Not only did I love the game, but this theory really shines a great message on the villain of mental illness and other issues in the like. Thanks Mattpatt!
We know what it chronic lyme disease ur not alone wake up research and avenge ur brother our govt made this monster even stronger and condolences
dude I'm sorry to hear about your brother. definitely raise awareness for those seizures. I hope you are able to.
I'm sorry man.
Alphayak Thank you so much.
Crystal The Blaziken I really appreciate it, thank you.
I like sam and chris.And i also feel sorry for josh.He doesnt deserve this at all.
also kinda like Jess.
fewpolecat93- jay I know it's your opinion but no because I mean because of his "friends" he lost his sisters he pranked them just to scare them they deserved it Josh didn't he was mental he couldn't save his sisters I mean think about it but eh
fewpolecat93- jay only because she STABBED him
lilysworld25 What ?
+lilysworld25 By that logic, you yourself cannot be old enough to watch the contents of this game. After all, you did not utilize capital letters for your username. An older individual would know to always capitalize any written name. That must be correct, because the statistic "Most people do not utilize capitals or proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation outside informal settings," is definitely not true. You also judged a random person on the internet that you do not know in a way you could not possibly deduce, especially in relation to something the majority of the civilized world above the age of 18 falls victim to. Also, when quoting a word someone else stated such as 'and', you put quotation marks (") around it. When just saying a specific word or letter, you put apostrophes around it, such as the letter 'A'. Additionally, you should have used the word 'those' instead of 'that' in your final sentence because you are referring to a plural, you shouldn't have utilized the word 'this' in the final sentence because it's redundant, and you can, in fact, start a sentence with the word 'and' if it brings an additional topic into whatever discussion or text-based setting you are engaging in, so long as it relates to the previous point. And you forgot to put a comma after "First of all", because that is not part of the idea and is added on for emphasis or transition.
Edit: Oh, and your first comment, "I feel sad that you watched this but you don't even go or listen to school," should be rewritten to "I felt sad reading about the original poster having watched this video whilst they don't even attend school or try to be educated." You are talking about a past thought that you had and you also said that a person must "listen to school", which they cannot do unless the school medium is purely auditory, and even then that is not listening to school, but listening to a lecture or some other word for auditory transmittance of ideals specific to a school setting. The only way a person can "listen to school" would be to sit outside or around a school and listening to the ambient sounds of the grounds or constructs within, which do not provide or boost an individual's already existing education.
I want a sequel we’re we get to return josh back to normal
I thought the squirrel was the hero all this time...
I thought wolfie was 💔
You too!?
squirrel was the villian if you're referencing what I thing you are
I’m too scared/broke to play this game, what squirrel?
@@alexhipetinger5688 Watch a play through
where's our theory on Sam's magical towel?
as a resident myself, I am impressed that you recognize that that is schizophrenia and have done good research about depression and schizophrenia. I was thinking "schizophrenia, schizophrenia" all the while I was playing this game. Well done! Thank you for pointing out the real message of this whole game: mental illness is cruel and sometimes misdiagnosis happens (doctors are humans too, they make mistakes as we all do).
However, Matt, I don't agree with your statement that "there is no escape from mental illness". You CAN get out of depression, you CAN beat schizophrenia, You CAN beat your own mind! So, if you are experiencing (or someone close to you is) depression, thinking like there is no way out, or experiencing all the things that happened to Josh, SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP IMMEDIATELY! Talk to your parents, your family, your best friend, someone you trust. They WILL and CAN help you. Don't be embarrassed, don't think a psychiatrist is someone who treats crazy people and you seeking help to a psychiatrist means you are crazy yourself. They can help you get through this. Remember you are LOVED.
and most of all, YOU ARE NOT ALONE. There are a lot of people who are going through this and have gone through this. There are communities and support group like ADAA or Erika's Lighthouse or NAMI.
Stay safe and stay healthy.
Faya Sitompul you can’t “beat” schizophrenia, only control it with medication, regular medication(that this kid was not given) till the end of your days. Not counting that it’s a degenerative mental illness not always but sometimes even medication is not enough. But it’s true some people who have the luck to have support and treatment can have a relatively normal life.
Gladly different story with depression.
Josh's backstory and the presence of the sanatorium both point to the fact that sometimes the whole mental health system (not just individual doctors) really fails people. Sometimes it actively hurts people. Sometimes it engages in widespread practices that later generations will recognize as cruel and profoundly untherapeutic.
Sadly though, your comment bears up how hopeless it is to point this out to anyone working in that system. They are all quick to say "seek help." But they will never hold their colleagues accountable for abuse, or attempt to change any of the many problems with the mental health system.
It's not hard to diagnose schizophrenia. At all.
Sure, but if you don't get professional help, or they don't see any problem with you, there is no escape.
It's hard enough to get out of bed in the morning to take my meds for anxiety and depression most days, I can't imagine how difficult it must be to live with schizophrenia.
I think Dr. Hill was actually good. In most of Josh's hallucinated therapy sessions, Hill came through to me as the "voice of sanity" in Josh's psyche, telling him he need to stop because the prank bad for him. Also, he got more and more injured as Josh deteriorated into madness
If only he is smart enough to treat his medication right.
I think that was what Josh believed Dr. Hill to be-I mean, that is what a psychiatrist should be-and yet it doesn't change the fact that he had made such a crucial error in Josh's diagnosis and left him untreated for almost 10 years.
I think the hallucination version of Dr Hill was good, and indeed Josh's voice of reason. The real Dr Hill who we never meet was clearly a bad psychiatrist.
He always felt way too hostile to me tbh
#joshdeservedbetter
This is 2 years ago video! wtf!!!!!!!!
Rainbow Pepe I SAID #JOSHDESERVEDBETTER
WHO CARES!>???????????!!!
Rainbow Pepe better question is why do YOU care. Geez. Chill.
God Pepe and u still comment on it
Just want to point out that the bear trap was not Josh's prank.
Andy Gong yes, it was actually set up by the hunter to lure wendigos and imobilize them
Too bad it lured in Mike..
sabinlord I never knew
Andy Gong It didn't lure him in my playtrough cuz u can clearly see that it's a fcking trap...movin' hand? really?
Andy Gong It was a trap, set by the flamethrower guy.
Sam tried to warn Hannah about the prank, she is probably the best character.
Cows Go Moo Gaming and Chris, he was passed out drunk WITH JOSH! They both had nothing to do with it. I read a different theory that says he targeted his closest friends during the prank instead of the people who were most to blame (Mike, Emily and Jessica) because while he wanted revenge on everybody, he had a delusion in thinking that he was also helping his friends by making them "internet sensations" and pushing Chris and Ashley closer together. He thought he was getting even AND doing something good for his friends at the same time. Poor guy
I think the best character is Beth.She literally didn't do ANYTHING wrong,from what I remember (since it's been ages since I finished the game whoops)
XxPhoenixX since we see so little of Beth, we just assume she’s a loyal younger sister but I bet if she were still alive in the game they would give her more skills AND flaws
Sam is the best
RPG Is Life Yeah, but until that, Sam is mostly the one who wants to make things right. If you check out her traits, It's REALLY more probable that she would save everyone.(It's our choice, not her's)
me: **sees fluoxetine**
also me : *"haha i take that"*
It was just a prank Han!
Wifi Ari s did u get ud free too
Wifi Aris it's just a prank bro
Just a prank bro!
NO No No just don’t do it
The camera's right there!