Is the Dygma Defy Buggy as f***?
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- Опубліковано 24 чер 2024
- Is the Dygma Defy Buggy as f***?
In this video, Dominique and Luis talk about the connectivity issues of the Dygma Defy, why it's happening and what we're going to do to solve them.
When we decided to make our keyboards wireless, we aimed for a seamless experience without compromising any features.
It's in our DNA to innovate and to do something that has never been done before; create a split fully-programmable column staggered keyboard that can work via RF, BT, and wires.
However, this goal has brought us many many challenges.
Our (small) team is constantly working on fixing these issues. And we won't stop working hard to make sure we deliver the best possible product out there.
Thank you for all of your support guys!
* There is an error at minute 8:30, the names of the keyboards from top to bottom are ZSA Moonlander, Ergodox EZ and Voyager.
_________________________
00:00 Intro
01:23 Confusing UX Design
03:39 Hardware malfunction
04:48 Purely firmware issues
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_________________________
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This is a really impressive thing that Dygma does where it informs and updates its users on issues with it's products. While no one likes bugs/issues with products that they've purchased, this really can't be helped at times (and that's what firmware updates are for... and aftersales support) and Dygma having accountability by providing content like this on their official channel is a step I the right direction. Not everyone would be willing to take this approach. Props to Dygma.
Thank you very much for your words and support! We always try to be as informative and transparent as possible and with this we could not stay behind 😊
My keyboard was part of the 1%, the PCB was damaged. Your support is exceptional. I’ve never been lost. Nobody forgot about my problem. You’re doing great 👍.
So glad that we were able to fix it 😊
Thank you for the Transparency!
Thank you for the support
Thanks for doing this video. More companies need to come clean and be direct when they are facing challenges. Doing this has inspired a lot of trust, at least with me.
Thank you. It's always scary to share the issues, but we believe it's the way all companies should behave 😊
How do we know if we have the HARDWARE issue? You said what caused it, but not what symptoms to look for , or what it means for the end user experience .
I do appreciate coming out and discussing the bugs / ux / hardware issues
The most obvious symptoms are having connectivity issues always on the same side of the keyboard. For example: you have issues flashing that side, or that side sometimes starts flashing red for no reason, or Bazecor doesn't always read that side's battery.
@@DygmaLab would this also include backlight quickly blinking off/ on randomly. or one side waking itself up(backlight turning on) while only using the other side?
@cebweb those look more like firmware issues. But if the issues always happen on the same side of the keyboard, email support@dygma.com and we can take a look
I use the Defy every day. Mostly without problems. It has fewer bugs and problems than Windows. So I can't really complain ;)
Thank you! 🫶 We will give some advice to Windows the next time we see them 😜
@@DygmaLab
Waste of time. ;) MS just wants the money, and they don't care about quality.
That's why I have no problem to pay you more for a quality keyboard with a premium service
😂😂🫶🫶
Appreciate openly acknowledging the issues and discuss the plan on solving them. Even great products could have their issues but what's important is knowing the company would provide solution to them. Wish there are more videos like this one. It would help reinstating Defy owner's faith on the product.
Thank you for your words! We try to be as open as we can with you guys, as we want to show you what are we doing and why. We appreciate all your support! 🫶
I've encountered pretty much every issue you guys mentioned, and some you didn't, but support was very helpful, and I enjoy the experience of having something bleeding edge like the Defy, so I don't mind a few minor bugs here and there.
I'm confident you guys will get it working prefectly eventually. Thanks for keeping us informed! The roadmap is great!
Bleeding-edge, we like the sound of that. We'll continue working to polish it to perfection!
Respect for being so open with issues ❤
We'd rather not have the issues, but being transparent about them is the least we could do. Well that and keep working on them around the clock 😅
Buggiest keyboard I have ever had, especially regarding connection issues. But, I still love it. Hopefully the problems are patched soon...
We'll fix them soon so you can love it even more 🥰
I think this type of content shows the great attitude at Dygma (in addition to all the other great videos you all make). I ordered a Defy today and I'm looking forward to breaking it in! Keep up the great work!
Thank you! Enjoy it 😊
I use my Defy both in wired mode and RF, and it works very well. As mentioned in the video, the keyboard does not immediately go to wired connection mode when the computer is starting up. You need to (a) wait until the computer is ready to send and receive data, and then make the wired connection or (b) press the top left (‘Esc’) key once the computer is ready. However, in the latter case, the LEDs go to full brightness and not the brightness level set in Bazecor for a wired connection (at least on firmware 1.2.7). It would be better if the keyboard automatically recognized and switched to the wired connection once the computer is ready.
A second point: I currently always have all LEDs off. At least once per day, the LEDs randomly turn back on, and I have to press the key combination to turn them back off. This happens both with RF and wired connections, and definitely is not a user error. This is a slight inconvenience for me.
A last point is that (1) I would like the possibility to switch to airplane mode via a key combination, and (2) that this setting would be persistent, i.e. that the keyboard would remember the setting and go back to it after being turned on again (same goes for the LED setting, e.g. whether they’re on or off). Better/easier Bazecor support for Linux is also on my wish list.
Despite these issues, I am definitely very satisfied with my Defy. I knew I was buying a state-of-the-art first generation product, and did not expect that everything would immediately be perfect. I’m happy that Dygma is transparent about the outstanding issues, and seems to be hard at work at improving everything.
Had I known about the outstanding issues in advance, I would undoubtedly still have bought the Defy. After very significant research, I still think that considering the whole package you get, the Defy is still the best flat, split, programmable, ergonomic keyboard on the market and an excellent deal. The hardware is near-perfect and all outstanding issues can (and hopefully will relatively soon) be fixed after the fact. The Dygma team have delivered epic performance. Thank you very much!
Thanks for your detailed message. We're working on having more options to configure how you want the keyboard connected, and we're also aware of the LEDs turning back on bug. We want the Defy to be polished and robust like we envisioned.
I have a Glove 80 that I love, but I decided I needed something a little more robust for taking to work on days I need to be in the office.. Got a wired Defy and it bothers me how enjoyable it is to use. I really find the form very appealing and comfortable to type on 8 to 12 hours a day. I’ve actually been considering how I can justify getting a wireless one.
I’m really impressed that you made this video. So many companies would try to claim it’s user error.. You’ve given me one more reason to want to get another Defy.
👏👏👏🥰
I use mostly the wired version and it has been extremely reliable so far. A really outstanding keyboard!
So glad to hear! Thanks for sharing!
Big thumbs up for having a software toggle for connectivity mode. Hoping you mean a mappable key that enables / disables Bluetooth to avoid the connection confusion!
Yes that's the idea 😊
A company that communicates the problems with their product so openly? Is this a alternate universe? Great work, now i love my Defy even more!
🥰😅
I appreciate the directness. Having to replug in cables, reflash firmware, restore lost configs, and repair 4 pcs through Bluetooth has gotten old. But the hardware is so nice, it’s hard to find a good, wireless, ortholinear keyboard. Here’s to getting the bugs figured out quickly.
Thank you! We're working hard on it 😊
From my experience, after several months, bugs are very rare. The only one that was actually a bit annoying is the bug with super keys. The real annoyance is the almost useless battery and the fact you can't use the keyboard if you forget the connector. It's just turn's into a $500 paperweight that can't be used at all, not with Bluetooth, not even if you directly plug it into a PC.
Edit: forgot another on: loose legs on tenting kit. Basically, every time you readjust it on the table, tenting looses its position if you pull the keyboard up, so you have to set it up again. Besides that, it's pretty much the best keyboard I ever used.
Yep. The firmware update that added deep sleep mode finally made wireless usable and the tiny batteries are less of a showstopper.
Bluetooth latency is also pretty awful, which isn't really a bug, but it does mean you need to run RF mode if you're gaming and then it does mean it's easier to forget the Neuron if you're transporting it. It's all manageable with good personal processes, but it seems silly to have to be so detail-oriented just to be able to use a $500 premium product.
Past that, bugs have been extremely rare and the overall experience is good, just the wireless experience took a long time to get anywhere close to what the vision was.
Thanks for telling us about your experience! We are working to fix the superkeys problem and above all to extend the battery life! 🙌
As for the loose legs, you can open the Defy (just six screws) and tighten the screws for the tenting mechanism a bit. Just did this myself today after a conversation with support (which was great) and it’s way better now.
@@eikowagenknecht thanks, for the suggestion, I should have guessed you can do that.
Yes i agree with the battery. Doesnt last half a week even with power saving settings. Doesnt feel like a wireless keyboard much. I kind of regret the purchase.
Excellent video. Being this open and honest gives me confidence that you are going to make it. When you are rich, please can you do a 34 key Ferris like keyboard!
We plan on making smaller keyboards in the future, but not an immediate future 😅
I have experience some of these issues, however overall experience has been very positive on the ergonomic aspect and everything seems to work unplugging and plugging in. Great product.
Thank you for sharing your experience! We'll keep working to make it even better 💪
The transparency is definitely appreciated. I've run into the 'layers-not-being-restored' issue myself (which was rather frustrating to deal with), so I've been waiting on 1.4 final (ie, not RC) to come out before updating. Glad to know there's a decent reason for the time it's taking to get that out the door.
Bazecor will have a stable release soon, too😊
It's really great to see how Dygma manages these issues. Other companies would try to hide these problems, pretending they don't exist. But in our modern world, with so many sites and forums to share info, the reality is all users get to know about the issues with a product. I definitely prefer to be the customer of a company that it's transparent with them, and doesn't treat me like a moron to be deceived. All companies (even the bigger ones) have issues, the difference lies in how they manage them. Dygma's way is certainly the good one to do it.
BTW, I follow Dygma and this channel, even if I'm not actually a customer of you. In my particular case, I tried many ergonomic split keyboards using sheet papers at scale. Unfortunately, the Defy wasn't the best fit for my hands. I didn't find it supercomfortable, especially with the thumb cluster. In the end, I opted for the Moonlander, that it's neither a perfect fit for my hands, but it's the best fitting keyboard I've found so far. But I consider the Defy to be the superior keyboard (the Moonlander doesn't have an aluminum case nor wireless connectivity). And I follow you and love the marketing you do, and how you treat customers. So I watch your videos, and share them so that people get to know you and your products. I also live in Spain, and think it's great to have a so cool company here, heheee.
Thank you. I must say that a piece of pacer does not make justice to our thumbkeys. You really to feel how comfortable they are 😊
@@DygmaLab Right. There is nothing like trying the real keyboard to actually know for sure if it's a good fit or not. The sheet papers at scale are only an approximation of course.
I never intended to say the thumb cluster of the Defy was "uncomfortable". Just that trying with sheet papers, the Moonlander seemed the better fit for my hands. I wasn't meaning the Defy thumb keys are "uncomfortable" in general. It's just that there is no keyboard that can fit absolutely all hands. If it's well designed, a keyboard can fit let's say 80-90% of hands. And I'm sure the Defy has a sound design: there are many users who say the Defy is supercomfortable for them.
I hope this clarifies a bit what I was trying to say. For me, the Defy is a great keyboard, and have no hesitation on recommending it.
Keep up the good work! Thanks for the informative video! Happy to say aside from the very few times the defy was buggy, my experience with the Defy has been solid. It has become my daily keyboard. Also in my experience the left side drains faster than the right in wireless mode. So because of that I tend to just keep it plugged in and I will use either wireless bluetooth mode or wired when gaming. So the addition of a programable key to switch between bluetooth and wired will be nice!
We are very happy to read what you have to say about Defy! Thank you very much for your support! 🫶
Guys the biggest issue is the thumb cluster keycaps! The ones in the bottom row that connect to the low profile switches. They snap all the time! Support has been good sending replacements but please make them stronger!
We are aware and, in fact, we redesigned for the new batch of keyboards. They no longer break.
Thanks for this, appreciate you guys. Although I will be selling my Defy*, I look forward to what Dygma comes up with next.
*Switched to a Voyager for the portability (very sad to lose wireless but Defy is huge) and wanted to use Voyager for travel and Defy for home. But when trying to map out the Defy to match the Voyager (so I don't have to remap my brain each time I switch) I found that the Defy is really bad at overloading keys where you assign different functions to tap vs hold. It has loads of keys so this shouldn't be much of an issue for most users, but for me no matter how much I tuned the tap/hold delay I was getting a huge number of incorrectly registered key presses and for some reason there was now a tap/hold delay on ALL my keys regardless of if they had a super key or not. This meant that if I didn't make really quick short strokes while typing the key just wouldn't fire 😂 Anyway, there are still plenty of things to love and I would still recommend it to some people over the Voyager.
We are already testing a version of the firmware that fixes the problem with the tap/hold delays, it will be included in the next public release 🥰
I highly respect that you folks are doing this! I've the connectivity issues, and the flashing issue you mentioned has also happened to me without me doing anything in bazecor. One time I was just using the keyboard and switching between layers and all of the keys went dark, I went into bazecor and my layout was gone. Has anyone else experienced this?
Kinda. My keyboard forgot all of its layers when I tried to pair it to my PC with Bluetooth. I stick to RF or wired on that PC now.
Yes that was a bug we had over Bluetooth. It's fixed in the 1.2.7 version of the firmware. Do you use that one?
@@DygmaLab I do, I use the newest version of the firmware.
@@josephhenderson2538 I stopped doing BT altogether so I am mostly using wired, if RF is really stable though I may use that more often!
I don't have a Dygma Keyboard (yet. Still deciding between the Defy and the Glove80), but I'm really appreciating the transparency here!
Hope you cho cho choose us!! (Lame Simpsons reference, sorry 😅)
8:29 The (mislabeled) keyboards are (top to bottom) ZSA Moonlander, ZSA Ergodox EZ, and ZSA Voyager, in case anyone is curious.
Thanks! We put that in the description too 🤦
Thanks for this, glad to know it wasn't just me that experienced the missing layers after flashing the keyboard! Thankfully I had the gut instinct of going through Bazecor and recover the latest layer settings.
As for the wireless toggle in each of the Defy halves, is it the case that if it's off then connecting through RF is not possible but through bluetooth it is? So it only turns off RF connectivity?
Just want to make sure I understood it as I always use RF and if the wireless toggle is turned off it won't connect, which makes sense.
Basically, the toggle switches the battery off. If you power the keyboard in any other way, you can use BT and RF.
To be honest i like my keyboard but yes it is buggy as fuck and it pisses me off that it was 600 bucks... now i will finish the video. video finished now, thanks for working on this I look forward to seeing the resutls.
We will deliver! 💪
Not here to complain, my experience with the defy has been amazing overall, but I would really like to suggest the possibility of mouse dpi toggle, I use 3 to 4 monitors and constantly reaching the mouse because the speed of the cursor in the keyboard buttons is either too fast to be precised or too slow to reach the other screens
Yes that would be a great feature. It's in our list for when we tackle the bugs 😊
The Bluetooth thing I figured out really soon and it's not a major issue for me. I just press escape and it works. But pressing "Escape" sometimes doesn't cause the keyboard to snap out of it, forcing me to unplug it and reconnect it. Sometimes one of the halves will just leave the LEDs off, which is a tad confusing, because you'd think it's off, but it's on.
Regardless. Still love the keyboard and I'm glad I went for it.
Yes that's the kind of things we want to improve :-)
Awesome video, owning your mistakes and also controlling the message.
I am starting to love this brand without having any of its products 😅
Will patiently wait until you make a small ergo mech kb 🙏
Thank you! We'll eventually make smaller ergo keebs :-)
I've noticed that my Defy will bt connect to my phone when I plug it into my PC. I didn't realize that was supposed to be a feature. I'm glad to know why it happens and how to work around it.
It's a useful but confusing feature 😅 That's why we want to polish the way we switch between modes.
I thought the neuron had to be in the space on the bottom of the keyboard to use Bluetooth mode. It can enter Bluetooth mode even when outside of the keyboard connected to a wire, even if accidentally? Interesting. Are both USB ports on the left half electrically connected?
I also wonder if it matters which half of the keyboard is connected to which port on the neuron. I know that the port on the long end is supposed to connect to the computer, but other than that the two halves of the keyboard can be connected to either remaining port. Does the accidental Bluetooth activation still happen if the halves are swapped?
Hi! Yes you can connect to BT with the keyboard connected with wires. Both ports are can communicate with the neuron to use BT. You can even use just the right side if you connect the neuron to it from the top. To access BT mode you need to press the BT pairing key that you can assign using Bazecor.
Oh and you can connect the sides of the keyboard to either port of the neuron on the short end.
Bugs or not the defy is 👌
Fixing the bugs will make it even more so.
Thank you! We'll fix them!
I have experienced the Bluetooth mode issue but simply pressing the corner button is an ez fix so it's never been an issue.
However I have a diff problem. My Defy will not stay in the combo tilt configuration. After typing for just a few moments the legs flex and the whole side just falls over. And this was a huge reason why I bought the key board and paid for the upgrades to have tenting.
I have made custom keyboards etc etc and I believe this is really the best mx keyboard on the market. Is there anything that can be done about this?
I assume you have checked the video on how to set up the tenting ua-cam.com/video/OSiu66ITd5Y/v-deo.html
In that case, maybe something is not right with your board. Please send us a video of what's happening at support@dygma.com and we can take a look.
When are we going to get the firmware update to have a wired mode switch? As a gamer I want the lowest response time possible
That is already there. If you connect wired the keyboard will work wired unless you accidentally switch to BT mode. To go back or to make sure you are using wired, you can press the BT pairing key (you can assign it in Bazecor) and press ESC to force Wired Mode.
i have the firmware bug where you need to reconnect the keyboard when booting my computer, its something I have learned to live with but if it were to be solved I would be happy =)
Yeah that bug can be pesky, but we'll squash it!
The only bug that is bugging me is that a lot of times my wired defy's right-half fails to connect and I need to disconnect/connect it's connection (right-half) to the neuron.
Apart from this, the keyboard is a treat (not that I won't be happier if this was fixed 😆)
Mmmm that shouldn't happen although the new firmware should address that. If it keeps happening after we release it, please email support@dygma.com and we can take a deeper look.
@@DygmaLab OK I'll try upgrading the firmware to latest. I'm currently on the stable version.
@@DygmaLab I've upgraded to 1.2.7-beta and the issue persists, and now the backlight brightness is full when I turn my system on (I can fix it by increasing it by 1 and then decreasing it by 1).
I'm using a USB hub to connect my Defy to MBP. Could it be the reason?
Please make a video about rapid trigger
Good idea 🤔
@@DygmaLab and please add this feature into bazecore
Unfortunately we can't just add it. The switches and the PCB design is completely different 🥹
I have many bugs with "Superkeys" ... e.g.:
Single Tap = WIN+SHIFT+S for a Screenshot
Double Tap = CTRL+ALT+A for KeePass Autofill
Doesnt matter what i do - i just get a screenshot ^^ No Chance to get that KeePass-Shortcut to work.
I assume you have tweaked the timeout for superkeys in the preferences menu?
🤗🤗🤗🤗
Kaleidoscope is crap. Same with the Model 100, software just sucks. UHK shows what great keyboard SW is.
UHK is an awesome user experience, but unfortunately the security is really bad... see issue #109 on the firmware repo...
We use our own fork of Kaleidoscope to add more features, like wireless, proper macro support, superkeys... and we have Bazecor, our own Software, which we believe is much more polished than Chrysalis. Have you tried it? You can test it out without a Dygma keyboard at dygma.com/bazecor
@@DygmaLab I know that you are extending Kaleidoscope and wish you good luck. My experience with it is subpar.
@@throwaway3227 Why would someone care? You download firmware updates, you decide to install. So I am not sure where the danger is here. Finally, UHK is not sold in millions, so not very attractive as a target I guess.
@@nickgoogle4525 The thing is, you don't have to decide to install. Any program you run on your computer with permission to use USB devices (probably most of them) can decide what firmware you use. This includes firmware with keyloggers or with malware injection (see rubber ducky) where the keyboard can be used to infect additional devices. You're right that it's not attractive as a wide spread attack vector, but it's very attractive for spear phishing attacks, especially since the price of the keyboard may mean that you only have one of these keyboards that you move around (and even worse if you're bringing your UHK to a place of work).
I hope you succeed.
We will 💪😊
No