I once played on a Class Wars server with Pyros vs Medics and every Pyro picked the Third Degree. I'm pretty sure that was the only time the weapon saw any mass use, and it was glorious.
@Jaxon Roark no, no double backstabs sound nightmarish, make it face stab the patient. that way in a hectic firefight theyre missing a pocket, AND theyre down 40 health
@@patrickfrost9405 However, it is oh sooooooo sweet when you finally get into melee range of one of the scorch shot spammers and you either crit them, or just chop them up. It feels so right.
I always preferred the backburner, personally. Even if the sweet spot that gave ya crits was finicky, there's nothing like sneaking up behind a line of enemies and destroying them before they even knew what was happening. Also, for some reason no one ever thinks that a backburner pyro will airblast.
@@costaricaam I think the best way to fix the Volcano Fragment is to allow mini crits on burning enemies, but the Axtinguisher already sorta does that.
@@ramblingsunglassesguy The volcano fragment should get the stats of the axtinguisher and the axtinguisher should have a mechanic where it makes targets bleed to combo with afterburn and do 10% more damage when player is ignited
I mean, most of the achievement and community melee weapons were direct upgrades on release BY DESIGN, the most notable being the Powerjack, Backburner, Blutsauger, Amputator and Solemn Vow. The first three only had the downside of no random crits (and also no airblast because they added that only to stock on the same update), and the latter two used to be actual straight upgrades just like the Third Degree.
@@WalterWRizzenberg Not necessarily. There's so much more to consider than just damage and range. Soldier's shovel for instance is quite good, because soldier's primary is hardly impossible to run out of ammo with and does self damage at short distances. Additionally, soldier often lacks a damaging secondary, so the shovel could be quite useful. And because of how random crits work, medic and engineer stock weapons have quite a high chance to crit compared to the other classes. And of course the stock wrench has other uses than just melee attacks, just like spy's knife. Pyro, on the other hand, has a flamethrower with quite a bit of ammo that only works at short range and kills things really damn quick, and he often has a damaging secondary anyways. Just like scout, he's already got far better options than hitting someone with stock at close range.
If everyone's ok with the volcano fragment being good only in medieval mode, then we should be ok with the Degree being good only in MVM Please stop informing me that the back scratcher exists, I am aware that it is better than the SVF, but the SVF still does something in Medieval Mode
@@Attaxalotl I think most people want that weapon changed. Even in Medieval mode, most people I set on fire just walk over a healthpack the next minute.
Fun fact: Pyro actually has two straight upgrades, the other one being the Rainblower because it has a taunt kill with no negative to balance it out, which is technically an extra way to do damage and is therefore an upside
I only ever use this weapon when I wanna stop looking at the Powerjack or the Homewrecker. I like the design, very cool and all. But it's a little useless.
I hate the look of all the Grodbort weapons honestly. I get the point is that they look plasticky and over-designed, but that doesn't stop them looking plasticky and over-designed.
@@Phosphorite05 dude... he has a weapon slot made SPECIFICALLY for fucking over engineers..... TWO If you count the disguise kits ability to trick sentries
@@davidachristman yeah, but a counter should actually be difficult to deal with. Like demoman. Dealing with a spy is just.. you turn around and shoot them
Ironically, the moment you hit someone with it and they get healed by crossbow at the same time, the medic also gets damaged. Why? Because spaghetti source code.
@valcaron if I made it I would have had the crossbow heal a friendly spy disguiesd as an enemy while making it look to the enemies as if he was damaged and vice versa
I think that I know two weapons that would become better if their ability is buffed. First of all: Third Degree itself, now the damage transfers through anything that heals but Mad Milk. And the next is the Enforcer. If it damages through defense, then make it a real statement without "if"s and exceptions. Sappers? Pierces the defense. Mann power buffs? Pierces the defense. Literally anything that makes You less vulnerable to damage? Pierces the defense. That way it won't be the bestest of the bestestest(estestest), but it would be a bit more useful. And if anyone complains that the buff is too good, they have never used the Enforcer, it's way more painful than other Spy guns, if they got bullied by anyone who used the Enforcer, that's solely their fault that they couldn't fight one of the notoriously bad guns of Team Fortress 2.
I like how both Zesty and Fish covered this weapon until now, and most footage they gather themselves really depend on random crits rather than the main "upgrade" of the thing.
the upside could work if the Thrid degree gave you the option to do health and overheal steals on hit, that way the suicidal rushes would actually make sense.
@@f2progamer well, I mean you obviously have to switch from your flamethrowers/dragon's fury(IMO, Phlog needs tweaking like 50HP on Mpph activation that can overheal and the Short circuit Delete ball that costs 65 ammo) and shotguns/flare guns(Manmelter could be better, make it suck up afterburn, jarate, mad milk and gasoline. Gas passer also needs improvements like first of all the ludicrous recharge time and damage lowered to either 30 secs and 300 dmg or 45 secs and 450 dmg and also making the foes be considered under the wet effect for Neon Anniliator like weapons combos, and a choice between Gasoline Cloud and Gasoline Bomb(50 damage with no fall off & does Gasoline afterburn) to make it good) in favor of going Melee Pyro. I would have added in something along the lines of "max overheal reduced by 33%" as well as "when weapon is active, 90% less healing from mediguns" and add that no random crits for minicrits when overhealed, which in combination to my "hitting foes gives you health and steals overheal" with teh current stat of "on hit: enemies hit transfer damage through the heal beam" allows for the Third Degree to be actually unique and have it's own ability and niche. what do you think of this?
Because Valve kept making every weapon they made in partnership with those guys that make futuristic looking weapons absolute trash, we have 3 whole damn item sets and only the phlog, eureka effect and Cow Mangler aren't absolute shit.
I kind of like how they intentionally made it situational, it still has its niche while allowing other melees to shine since the fire axe is...shit and this is a minor upgrade
@@hopper8514 Yeah, but as he demonstrated in the video, when used in the correct situation, (against MvM uber medics healing a single charged unit) it's good at what it does.
"Scout doesn't use his melee" Fish scouts: I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that Edit: I would like to apologize to pan and arm scouts for excluding them
@@antonioluiz7572 sorry i don't speak WRONG You are not fucking over your team with the back scratcher, you are actually helping your team, because you are receiving less healing, your med gets more über
13:24 ok, can we appreciate how amazing that play was? he not only stood his ground against two heavys so well he almost killed them but he also killed the medic! i tip my hat to u.
like for real, what else is the medic going to heal? The Sniper with tunnel vision? The scout that runs behind enemy lines? or the spy who is trying to disguise as an enemy but you keep healing him and ruining his fun?
@@jeremyabbott4537 prehaps the widowmaker engi or frontier justice engi or ... a battle engineer I just realized scout has weaker shotguns than the engineer
This isn't a hot take, it's pretty based. I'm just disappointed the irl bison is made of plastic and has no moving parts... For a hundred fucking dollars. You know what else I could buy for a hundred dollars? A figma. So many moving parts and much higher quality lol
I remember being in a trade server with most of my team afk and most of the enemy team healing a soldier, so I teamed up with my team's medic to use the kritzkrieg alongside the third degree, when the uber was ready we went out of the base and ambushed the enemy team striking a single critical blow that fucking deleted everyone on sight
just make it actually mini-crit when hitting a target that is being healed. as a downside you can have it deal 20% less damage to enemies that aren't being healed.
3:06 i can't believe just now am i starting to truly appreaciate the editing in these videos the way the clip on screen perfectly matches what your saying is amazing
Weird story: When I first got a Third Degree through the drop system (a very long time ago, essentially a few weeks after I started playing the game), I genuinely had no idea what it was. The fact I had never seen or heard about it before, as well as the facts that I was playing in a community server and that this weapon had no downsides, made me originally think that it was a custom weapon that the server gave to me.
Just started playing a few weeks ago and got this as my first Pyro melee drop, felt similar. Never heard of the sumbitch, didn't understand why it only had a buff, and when I asked my friend who convinced me to start playing he'd never even heard of it. Why does this thing exist???
When i was first playing TF2, i thought this item healed nearby teammates if you were holding the axe and were being healed by a medic. To be honest that seems like a much cooler idea then what it is now.
Third degree is just a stock axe but a straight upgrade and it's still bad. Edit: *This is the best weapon in the entire game it always fucking crits on air*
MVM Meta for pyro consists of the weapons you absolutely never want to use in a normal game. The worst flamethrower, the Phlog The Gas Passer and the Third Degree.
@@Appletank8 i mean, just being regular crit boosted by a kritz medic or a cantten would work just as well as the plog in general. Plus with any other flamethrower you can airblast the bomb carrier into a kill zone.
@@shadycanopy15 I think people have finally started to realize that the Phlog is absolute garbage. The Dragon's Fury is still seen as a meme gun though. I think the new "meta" is the Degreaser and the Reserve Shooter still, even though the Reserve Shooter shouldn't be a Pyro weapon.
"Unless you're a CaberKnight main" As a long standing CaberKnight main I approve this message. Glad to see the subclass has been showing up a lot more recently.
Here's the thing about the third degree, it's a direct upgrade to stock because it doesn't have any downsides, its just that the upside is so small, that literally anything else is better.
Haven't watched the whole video, but these are my change ideas for the stats: +On hit: Transfers target's overheal to user. +On hit: Prevents target from being overhealed for 5 seconds. +Overheal stolen will take 4 times as long to decay (similar to Kunai). - 25% Less damage -30% Slower Swing speed This would make the Third Degree more useful for support and offense, giving one the ability to take, let's say, a fully overhealed Heavy's overheal for themselves, damage the medic, and prevent the medic from healing the Heavy for 5 seconds, letting you and your team take him down easier. The stats also gives the weapon more practicality in 1 on 1 fights, as you could take overheal from someone that got it from a medic and then left. The negative stats makes this weapon less reliable by itself, encouraging it's use as a combo weapon.
@@user-ow2cs7fb5l You're gonna be mauled by any class that allows high overheal if you're at melee range and you need to switch to the flame thrower to deal any actually good damage so you'll already use up a good amount of the overheal in that situation, I think it's fine. Even if you have allies with you to hit the formerly overhealed enemy, if you let a pyro get to full on melee range against you, you deserve being punished hard for that.
So on the back of this, I've gotta say. If you found this weapon still usable occasionally, give the dragon's fury a real try. There's a lot of nuance to the weapon that makes it very good in some places. Protip, keep at max range and aim for the *knees*. The fireball is a modified rocket and you can pop people into the air in the same way a grenade or rocket to the knees can, leading to an easy airshot finisher.
third degree is a weird weapon to put on here, considering he even said that its the only weapon in the game to be a legit "straight upgrade from stock" with that said I think he should've covered the fire axe instead
I know I’m really late to the party but imagine if it had a passive effect like the Back Scratcher, where you don’t have to have it open you just equip it and whatever upside and downside it has will be passive. If not that maybe it could have a mechanic like whenever someone is hit with it, for some period of time all damage they take will be transferred across others with the banner, healing source etc.
stock melees are all right, but could use a stat or two to be better and since they are stock, that means little to no downsides compared to unlocks. edit. I am not saying that the reliability of stock weapons is bad, but that just being reliable is not enough. some situational things for melees are needed like "third hit does XYZ" and "alt fire does XYZ" and even a "on kill: get buff" while the medic would need alt fires that do burst healing as a core class mechanic to at least have good options to move away from the Crusader Crossbow ubersaw meta.
@@filomes NO! Do not cripple good items, make the bad items as good as the meta items! what do the Crossbow and Ubersaw have? Crossbow has burst healing support, while the Ubersaw is Uber on hit. my suggestion is a core class improvement of the medic with alt fires that do burst healing. Primary alt fires that I call Med Packs are basically a Medic Sandvich(medium health pack, 30 second recharge, cannot heal you if you pick it up, map pick ups at full health recharge the meter, and in the medic's case all Med Packs give 5% uber on heal). Melees alt fires are Injector Syringes(Disciplinary action like mechanics, meaning longer reach to help the team, 15 seconds cooldown, you cannot pick up stuff to recharge it, when meter is full you give smal health pack worth of healtht that overheals/20% health that can overheal, but you have a 25 damage fast swing speed melee with no random crits on your alt fire for those 15 seconds and the stock syringe gives 5% uber on hit as well) plus you can press R when melee is active to self buff. For Amputator, regen can overhela to 30HP when active, it gets a Hospitalier meter that causes an aoe of the healing aura for 8 seconds and you only use the priamry and melee during this time. Vita saw is alt fire uses organs for 15% uber now instead of after death and 15HP on hit that overheals to 30HP.
My personal hot take is that The Third Degree is actually a secret downgrade to the Fire Axe. You wouldnt normally think of breaking out your melee but when you see that medi-beam you just gotta go for it. If an upgrade tanks your K:D ratio then it really isn't an upgrade.
If I were remaking the Third Degree, I would use the Universal Connected Player Bonus like you said. But this is how I would do it. Pros: - Hits all players connected Via Medigun Beams, Dispenser Beams, and Amputator Heal Range. - +25% Damage Bonus vs Connected Players - +10% Movement Speed While Deployed Cons: - +25% Slower Switch from/Deploy Speed. - -20% Damage Penalty vs Non Connected Players - No Random Cracker Critical Hits The reason I gave it a speed boost while deployed but a slower sheath and deploy speed, was so that when you pull it out you gotta make sure you commit to the ambush. Also I didn’t add the Banner effects to my version of the stat, cause you shouldn’t be able to hit basically the whole team with one swing. That’d be stupid.
what if it dealt mini crits to everyone connected but the drawback would be that i could not deal random critical hits and would deal less to targets that are currently not healed
I think it could be changed to: Crit to player conected through a healing beam, no damage to enemy struck conected to a beam, 20% damage penalty. Honestly I think the weapon need an overhaul, but with this changes you could one hit a not overheal Medic.
Just wanted to thank you for your videos, I recently got back into playing TF2 casually after watching your content and it has been very nostalgic. Much love, keep up the good work!
Me: *enjoying the video’s intro* Also me: *sees the part where he types in chat and that someone named “gaming” replied to it* Also also me: HOLY SHIT THAT’S ME-
If the third degree did the connected medic-patient damage thing when you actually hold out the third degree it would be op. You put some fire on a medic who is pocketing a scoot with a pistol as a secondary and then pull the third degree out. BAM! Telekinetic fire.
The Shahasha is actually a really good Counter to the Vacc, extra damage at lower health means you get a good reason to get in for the kill. OR the Jarate, Bushwacka Combo.
@@bruschetta7711 You mean. Medic does what Medic does? Also, Every Class has MELEE. Most classes have a melee that if trained enough to use they can really break the vVcc.
@@macabweu7682 melee? And what classes would be able to kill the Medic and the guy he's healing? Without crits (cuz you know remove crits from the game amirite?) Most likely you would die with any class before reaching the target, you would need to play Spy or Demoknight and let's say that they aren't very effective outside of this one scenario that they still most likely lose The only way Vaccinator would be fine to me is if they remove stacking recistencies OR lowering the amount of charges from 4 to 3
My suggestions for stat change would be to keep the same gimmick, but add on a stat that crits overhealed players, encouraging you to attack the pocket, witch basically already means death. Add on a -25% damage and 20% slower swing speed. The damage penalty would cause a crit to do 147, leaving the medic barely standing. The crit on overheal would also be usefull in nieche circumstances such as battling a kunai Spy
Unavoidable damage from a source that you have no control over kinda sucks. That’s why I can’t really see the third degree being buffed to effect things like the buff banner.
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Shortstop](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IzffV2oVvZQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Shortstop](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Gas Passer](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fRsGX2puBaE/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Manmelter](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QB-GxmkD1JI/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Equalizer](/img/n.gif)
I once played on a Class Wars server with Pyros vs Medics and every Pyro picked the Third Degree. I'm pretty sure that was the only time the weapon saw any mass use, and it was glorious.
It’s kinda like how the brass beast is a really good choice in class wars.
I can hear the mass BLWOMPs
@@E-6969 that's just because Heavy in Class Wars at all is a powerhouse
@@Eye_Of_Odin978 of course he is what are you trying to prove.
@@Eye_Of_Odin978
Yes, but class wars making you run at the enemy completely negates Brass Beast’s speed debuff.
Third Degree actually has an unused kill icon for when you kill someone through the heal beam.
its like the machina double kill icon?
@@AbadabaForever that's a cool icon, but I can understand why it wouldn't work. The second axe just wouldn't show unless it were a crit kill
@@load-bearingcoconut5586 hmmmm yeah
@Jaxon Roark no, no double backstabs sound nightmarish, make it face stab the patient. that way in a hectic firefight theyre missing a pocket, AND theyre down 40 health
@@BottleWaterson yes that would be nice, of course it wouldnt be a direct upgrade this time
What we want: Crits on the Medic attached to the Heavy.
What we get: A Pyro filled with bullets after a failed attempt of critting.
What we want: Crits on the Medic attached to the Heavy.
What we get: A Crits Medic attached to the Heavy.
What we want: good and fun weapon
What we get: Valve doesn't give a shit, so nothing
ua-cam.com/video/Q5-nGXmkU9c/v-deo.html
*hitting
@@engineergaming4453 what?
Equalizer: "Don't rely on random crits, you'll be disappointed."
Third Degree: "This weapon needs help from Gaben to do its job"
Youre... a snivy? What?
Quiet razor leaf and ur high crit ratio
@@emanwonkon2205 And you're a Wonkon, you're point? :P
@@raptorrixx99-wv2hl is wonkon actually a pokemon?
@@emanwonkon2205 *"You are now😈"*
*Master balls you*
“You just run at them like a fucking idiot... and then you die”
Is that not how most people play pyro anyway?
Well, most just run with a weapon that give constant damage vs...whatever it is the Axe of choice they do.
I like to use the Scorch Shot to remind people that god hates them at long range.
@@patrickfrost9405 However, it is oh sooooooo sweet when you finally get into melee range of one of the scorch shot spammers and you either crit them, or just chop them up. It feels so right.
I’ll be honest as a former pyro main the only time I ran at people in situations I knew I would die is when trying to stuff or delay an Uber
I always preferred the backburner, personally. Even if the sweet spot that gave ya crits was finicky, there's nothing like sneaking up behind a line of enemies and destroying them before they even knew what was happening. Also, for some reason no one ever thinks that a backburner pyro will airblast.
"why use fire when have axe?"
*Sharpened Volcano Fragment Intensifies*
True
Use both
Not even the third degree is as bad
@@costaricaam I think the best way to fix the Volcano Fragment is to allow mini crits on burning enemies, but the Axtinguisher already sorta does that.
@@ramblingsunglassesguy
The volcano fragment should get the stats of the axtinguisher and the axtinguisher should have a mechanic where it makes targets bleed to combo with afterburn and do 10% more damage when player is ignited
its like valve knew that the fire axe is total crap and making a direct upgrade for it wont matter at all
I mean, most of the achievement and community melee weapons were direct upgrades on release BY DESIGN, the most notable being the Powerjack, Backburner, Blutsauger, Amputator and Solemn Vow. The first three only had the downside of no random crits (and also no airblast because they added that only to stock on the same update), and the latter two used to be actual straight upgrades just like the Third Degree.
@@joanaguayoplanell4912
Didn't know Bburner and Blutsauger were melees
@@Skallva i meant achievement weapons in general. Plus, have you tried to use them at medium range? They definitely count as melee weapons.
+ hits targets connected by medi-gun beams.
- is a pyro melee
@@WalterWRizzenberg Not necessarily. There's so much more to consider than just damage and range.
Soldier's shovel for instance is quite good, because soldier's primary is hardly impossible to run out of ammo with and does self damage at short distances. Additionally, soldier often lacks a damaging secondary, so the shovel could be quite useful.
And because of how random crits work, medic and engineer stock weapons have quite a high chance to crit compared to the other classes. And of course the stock wrench has other uses than just melee attacks, just like spy's knife.
Pyro, on the other hand, has a flamethrower with quite a bit of ammo that only works at short range and kills things really damn quick, and he often has a damaging secondary anyways. Just like scout, he's already got far better options than hitting someone with stock at close range.
Its not a bad weapon, its just overshadowed by every single other weapon apart from the fire axe, lollychop and the sharpened volcano fragment
Its more like a below mediocre and situational weapon, but atleast its not downright trash, just situational trash
If everyone's ok with the volcano fragment being good only in medieval mode, then we should be ok with the Degree being good only in MVM
Please stop informing me that the back scratcher exists, I am aware that it is better than the SVF, but the SVF still does something in Medieval Mode
@@Attaxalotl i mean if your have a crit canteen i guess it will work
@@Attaxalotl I think most people want that weapon changed. Even in Medieval mode, most people I set on fire just walk over a healthpack the next minute.
@@Attaxalotl It's not even good in medieval mode cause health kits drop on kill so afterburn rarely takes any meaningful effect.
11:37 A pocketed demoknight lost a melee fight. That's gotta be humiliating.
And to the fucking third degree lmao
That's a real *burn*
@@Benito675 Third degree burn
Fun fact: Pyro actually has two straight upgrades, the other one being the Rainblower because it has a taunt kill with no negative to balance it out, which is technically an extra way to do damage and is therefore an upside
a lot of people concider pyrovision a downside
@@Adir-Yosef you can turn it off
@@thejedisonic67wait really? how
@@psy-fi64 in the options
@@Adir-YosefPyrovision is actually banned in competitive because it removes a lot of map geometry
6:43 - Sniper saw you using the Third Degree and said: Pathetic.
Lol
wouldnt it be funny if the dedicated long range class could do 150 damage at close range?
Damn
6:44
Funny face
@Shota-kun you're mad cuz you know it's true
I only ever use this weapon when I wanna stop looking at the Powerjack or the Homewrecker. I like the design, very cool and all. But it's a little useless.
I hate the look of all the Grodbort weapons honestly. I get the point is that they look plasticky and over-designed, but that doesn't stop them looking plasticky and over-designed.
@@nonesuch6833 Yeah. I get that. I personally just find it appealing myself.
It's less useless than stock, considering it is literally a direct upgrade
I don't play pyro too much but when I play him I usually go for the axstinguisher. Combo pyro is extremely fun.
really shows you how bad pyros stock melee is
This item is really strange, but I like the idea of it
not when you are the one medic that got random crit hit through his patient for like 3 times
@@puppeteer3964 at that point it's on your team for not keeping an eye out for the meleeing pyro
@@jeremyabbott4537 sadly its a pub and you cant really do much
it’s good on paper, but there’s like nothing else there to make it worth it
Its funny how this is better then stock becouse its the same as the axe but no downsides just 1 upside
I love how medic is so powerful, that there are multiple weapons that purposely target him and his unique abilities
Meanwhile engineer is so powerful that an entire class exists for the sole purpose of being his counter
@@heroninja1125more of one of his weapon slots is used exclusively to deal with engineer
@@heroninja1125i mean.. not really. Its not that difficult to deal with spies if you look for them.
@@Phosphorite05 dude... he has a weapon slot made SPECIFICALLY for fucking over engineers..... TWO If you count the disguise kits ability to trick sentries
@@davidachristman yeah, but a counter should actually be difficult to deal with. Like demoman. Dealing with a spy is just.. you turn around and shoot them
Ironically, the moment you hit someone with it and they get healed by crossbow at the same time, the medic also gets damaged.
Why? Because spaghetti source code.
@valcaron if I made it I would have had the crossbow heal a friendly spy disguiesd as an enemy while making it look to the enemies as if he was damaged and vice versa
Not what irony means
@@josephg1125 still how I would make it, granted the spaghetti code probably wouldn’t allow it but still
@@anAlarmingAlarm random crit
I think that I know two weapons that would become better if their ability is buffed. First of all: Third Degree itself, now the damage transfers through anything that heals but Mad Milk. And the next is the Enforcer. If it damages through defense, then make it a real statement without "if"s and exceptions. Sappers? Pierces the defense. Mann power buffs? Pierces the defense. Literally anything that makes You less vulnerable to damage? Pierces the defense. That way it won't be the bestest of the bestestest(estestest), but it would be a bit more useful. And if anyone complains that the buff is too good, they have never used the Enforcer, it's way more painful than other Spy guns, if they got bullied by anyone who used the Enforcer, that's solely their fault that they couldn't fight one of the notoriously bad guns of Team Fortress 2.
6:07 imagine 12 people being healed by the amputator, you run up, get a random crit and kill everyone
Not possible
@IntrepidTit yes
I think my issue was I forgot to take the medic into consideration so I though there could be a maximum of 11 people not 12
*Random crits are fair and balanced*
Just remove random critsbfrom the weapon
Would be hilarious
"When you and your friends join a private server and one of them goes medic" weapon
I like how both Zesty and Fish covered this weapon until now, and most footage they gather themselves really depend on random crits rather than the main "upgrade" of the thing.
the upside could work if the Thrid degree gave you the option to do health and overheal steals on hit, that way the suicidal rushes would actually make sense.
@@drivanradosivic1357 then we have to think of a downside for this thing.
@@f2progamer well, I mean you obviously have to switch from your flamethrowers/dragon's fury(IMO, Phlog needs tweaking like 50HP on Mpph activation that can overheal and the Short circuit Delete ball that costs 65 ammo) and shotguns/flare guns(Manmelter could be better, make it suck up afterburn, jarate, mad milk and gasoline. Gas passer also needs improvements like first of all the ludicrous recharge time and damage lowered to either 30 secs and 300 dmg or 45 secs and 450 dmg and also making the foes be considered under the wet effect for Neon Anniliator like weapons combos, and a choice between Gasoline Cloud and Gasoline Bomb(50 damage with no fall off & does Gasoline afterburn) to make it good) in favor of going Melee Pyro.
I would have added in something along the lines of "max overheal reduced by 33%" as well as "when weapon is active, 90% less healing from mediguns" and add that no random crits for minicrits when overhealed, which in combination to my "hitting foes gives you health and steals overheal" with teh current stat of "on hit: enemies hit transfer damage through the heal beam" allows for the Third Degree to be actually unique and have it's own ability and niche.
what do you think of this?
That's the meta: Just get random crits! Duh.
Something I've learned from this series is that all the cool looking weapons are probably the worst ones.
Because Valve kept making every weapon they made in partnership with those guys that make futuristic looking weapons absolute trash, we have 3 whole damn item sets and only the phlog, eureka effect and Cow Mangler aren't absolute shit.
Well, at least Vaccinator is pretty futuristic-looking, and it's stupid OP.
sadly yes
@@manologamerss5801 oh the misery
Hmm, third degree, sun on a stick, volcano fragment, eviction notice, brass beast relatively... yeah, that checks out
1:27 "This class is weak in close combat"
*shows medic, the class that always crits melee*
I, sir, laugh at your statement
Sniper:*laughs with bushwacka + jarate combo*
Their core concept is about that.
But they can fight back.
Same as spy.
He is mostly dead upon being find out.
However he can fight back and even win.
dont you love it when a single mechanic invalidates the classes biggest weakness?
@@Tenshi04Akuma Everyone forgets that SPY HAS A GUN.
@@autismreal4Gun-Spys when a F2P Soldier hits them with random crit spash damage:
Even when its a straight upgrade to stock, it still sucks
It’s just a reskin with a slightly passable pro.
On a scale from 1 to 10, 2.5 isn't that much higher than 1.
@@davidhong1934 Still a 15% increase.
I kind of like how they intentionally made it situational, it still has its niche while allowing other melees to shine since the fire axe is...shit and this is a minor upgrade
@@hopper8514 Yeah, but as he demonstrated in the video, when used in the correct situation, (against MvM uber medics healing a single charged unit) it's good at what it does.
"Scout doesn't use his melee"
Fish scouts: I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that
Edit: I would like to apologize to pan and arm scouts for excluding them
F I S H
As a fish scout I can confirm
fish
the fish is supreme
Flava
I love using the back scratcher when playing in community servers like blackwonder, it's a really good way to stay alive
Btw not that bad bitrate academy
and then they use rtd and come with powerplay on your face
2 fort doesn't have medics so it's an upgrade from stock therr
Medics can't heal you when using that shit weapon quit fucking your team
@@antonioluiz7572 sorry i don't speak WRONG
You are not fucking over your team with the back scratcher, you are actually helping your team, because you are receiving less healing, your med gets more über
13:24 ok, can we appreciate how amazing that play was? he not only stood his ground against two heavys so well he almost killed them but he also killed the medic! i tip my hat to u.
Shoutout to the medic for healing him
It seemed to me like the heavies weren't tracking him.....
I love the third degree...not for its utility, not for it being a direct upgrade...but because the taunt is a sick guitar solo
Despite the fact that he has other melee weapons that do the same exact taunt
"medics are attracted to power classes like flies to shit"
Is the funniest thing I've heard all week and as a medic main I agree
like for real, what else is the medic going to heal? The Sniper with tunnel vision? The scout that runs behind enemy lines? or the spy who is trying to disguise as an enemy but you keep healing him and ruining his fun?
I ubered a spy once and he butterknifed an overhealed soldier to death
ua-cam.com/video/Q5-nGXmkU9c/v-deo.html
@@jeremyabbott4537 scouts are at least usable as a taxi service.
@@jeremyabbott4537 prehaps the widowmaker engi or frontier justice engi or ... a battle engineer I just realized scout has weaker shotguns than the engineer
What did you say about scout’s melees? I’ll have you know that the fish is the best weapon in the game!
oh no the scunts are here everyone run
You fool
The pan is the best weapon in the game. It deals +100% ear damage.
@@davidhong1934 but fish
real chad use ham :troll:
I think it can actually detect the Dead Ringer. It says it was a normal kill instead of a fish kill. Plus, fish funni
if the jetpack was better i'd say this would be a great pyro market gardener
How dare you insult pyro’s best secondary
Wait they could revamp this axe and turn it into a pyro market gardener
@@kingstaze9696 nah, revamp the volcano fragment to be a market gardener.
@Alex Snitzer just use the detonator and use a…. Yeah
One word,
Detonator
Hot take: The Third Degree and the other two Moonman Pack weapons have very good visual designs
I love third degree visual design, i think it looks very nice
This isn't a hot take, it's pretty based. I'm just disappointed the irl bison is made of plastic and has no moving parts... For a hundred fucking dollars. You know what else I could buy for a hundred dollars? A figma. So many moving parts and much higher quality lol
They don't look bad, but they don't look at home in TF2.
Not that half the cosmetics do at this point anyway.
I remember being in a trade server with most of my team afk and most of the enemy team healing a soldier, so I teamed up with my team's medic to use the kritzkrieg alongside the third degree, when the uber was ready we went out of the base and ambushed the enemy team striking a single critical blow that fucking deleted everyone on sight
i need to see something like this
17:18 “I understand ubering a heavy on the objective, but I swear half of these medics are just trying to re-enact Meet The Medic!”
"I see you're a man of culture as well"
Lazy will bless this community forever
just make it actually mini-crit when hitting a target that is being healed. as a downside you can have it deal 20% less damage to enemies that aren't being healed.
Or have it crit while mid air, via detonator/jetpack, would make it better than a market gardener
@@bruschetta7711 why make it a market gardener
No
what about a Vampire(scuks up health and overheal for 15HP per swing) that does minicrits or crits when overhealed? with 20% less damage of course?
@@bruschetta7711 that that would be a better thematic fit for the Airforce Pyro pack set.
I can't imagine having to use this weapon for a solid 10-30 hours to gather clips to explain how bad it is. u have earned this pyros respect!
Especially trying to skirt bots the whole time... By the time I get home from work it's real bot hours
@@bradfjord ikr
5:09 I don’t think I want to use the Homewrecker
🤨
On the contrary, maybe I'll use it more
Coward
3:06 i can't believe just now am i starting to truly appreaciate the editing in these videos
the way the clip on screen perfectly matches what your saying is amazing
Im actually pretty sure some of his scripts come from gameplay like what lazypurple does which is get clips and write what theyre about
2 reasons i use this:
I don't have anything else
It looks cool.
Better this than stock, right?
@@SoraDonaldGoofy99 That too, but in action, I don't use this.
Try scrap.tf to get weapons. And yes it does look cool.
I was quite miffed when he said it was an ugly weapon
Sounds cool too when you hit things with it
Weird story: When I first got a Third Degree through the drop system (a very long time ago, essentially a few weeks after I started playing the game), I genuinely had no idea what it was. The fact I had never seen or heard about it before, as well as the facts that I was playing in a community server and that this weapon had no downsides, made me originally think that it was a custom weapon that the server gave to me.
Just started playing a few weeks ago and got this as my first Pyro melee drop, felt similar. Never heard of the sumbitch, didn't understand why it only had a buff, and when I asked my friend who convinced me to start playing he'd never even heard of it. Why does this thing exist???
0/10
Homewrecker did not do as advertised.
what?
@@lucasdacarinha 5:08
@@tgoas9142 lol, exactly
Maybe you were playing on a server full of spies and snipers.
Alternatively, you were playing with a combat engineer who "forgot" to set a dispenser.
10/10
Homewrecker did as advertised.
When i was first playing TF2, i thought this item healed nearby teammates if you were holding the axe and were being healed by a medic. To be honest that seems like a much cooler idea then what it is now.
I would say that'd improve the general opinion of pyro but everytime I see disrespect, it's from someone who died to one lmao
Third degree Pyro: *sees person a being healed by medic*
Also the Pyro: so anyway, I started slashing
Third degree is just a stock axe but a straight upgrade and it's still bad.
Edit: *This is the best weapon in the entire game it always fucking crits on air*
Thanks DIO
its because pyros never use their melee in general
the flame thrower is braindead enough so why even bother
@@facemcshooty6602 lmao the salt
@LOAN NGUYEN im talking about a more combat situation than a utility
@LOAN NGUYEN 3 classes use their meele
That's it only 3
I have only ever used this in MvM where with crit canteen I could wipe out an entire fleet of medics healing one heavy.
MVM Meta for pyro consists of the weapons you absolutely never want to use in a normal game.
The worst flamethrower, the Phlog
The Gas Passer
and the Third Degree.
@@Attaxalotl Doesn't the Dragon's Fury outclass the Phlog now, or did the meta switch back while I've been gone from the game?
@@shadycanopy15
Pretty sure Phlog is still better because of tank busting
@@Appletank8 i mean, just being regular crit boosted by a kritz medic or a cantten would work just as well as the plog in general. Plus with any other flamethrower you can airblast the bomb carrier into a kill zone.
@@shadycanopy15
I think people have finally started to realize that the Phlog is absolute garbage.
The Dragon's Fury is still seen as a meme gun though. I think the new "meta" is the Degreaser and the Reserve Shooter still, even though the Reserve Shooter shouldn't be a Pyro weapon.
This was my first item in tf2 and it made me think that every other weapon was a straight upgrade over stock
This is basically TF2c custom servers. With the exceptions of some random really bad weapon.
Welcome back to another episode of "Why you should buy the robots destroyed strange part for this weapon academy"
2:35 - Are we not gonna talk that he walked passed an ammo box?
"Unless you're a CaberKnight main"
As a long standing CaberKnight main I approve this message. Glad to see the subclass has been showing up a lot more recently.
Here's the thing about the third degree, it's a direct upgrade to stock because it doesn't have any downsides, its just that the upside is so small, that literally anything else is better.
Haven't watched the whole video, but these are my change ideas for the stats:
+On hit: Transfers target's overheal to user.
+On hit: Prevents target from being overhealed for 5 seconds.
+Overheal stolen will take 4 times as long to decay (similar to Kunai).
- 25% Less damage
-30% Slower Swing speed
This would make the Third Degree more useful for support and offense, giving one the ability to take, let's say, a fully overhealed Heavy's overheal for themselves, damage the medic, and prevent the medic from healing the Heavy for 5 seconds, letting you and your team take him down easier. The stats also gives the weapon more practicality in 1 on 1 fights, as you could take overheal from someone that got it from a medic and then left. The negative stats makes this weapon less reliable by itself, encouraging it's use as a combo weapon.
huh, me and you have similar thought process, although I made the Third degree a "when you overheal you get minicrit/crit damage" as the upside.
Stealing all overheal from the player seems a bit too good. Maybe 50%?
@@user-ow2cs7fb5l You're gonna be mauled by any class that allows high overheal if you're at melee range and you need to switch to the flame thrower to deal any actually good damage so you'll already use up a good amount of the overheal in that situation, I think it's fine. Even if you have allies with you to hit the formerly overhealed enemy, if you let a pyro get to full on melee range against you, you deserve being punished hard for that.
"these classes have the least use for their melee"
*Laughs in destroying sappers and one shotting people in your weakest state*
Stock melee*
So on the back of this, I've gotta say. If you found this weapon still usable occasionally, give the dragon's fury a real try. There's a lot of nuance to the weapon that makes it very good in some places. Protip, keep at max range and aim for the *knees*. The fireball is a modified rocket and you can pop people into the air in the same way a grenade or rocket to the knees can, leading to an easy airshot finisher.
"why use fire when have axe"
I see you're a pyro of culture as well
That’s like saying “why use sapper, when have red tape recorder?” (Jokes btw.)
*sharpened volcano fragment would like to know your location.*
third degree is a weird weapon to put on here, considering he even said that its the only weapon in the game to be a legit "straight upgrade from stock" with that said I think he should've covered the fire axe instead
There is nothing to say about stock other than the only weapon that's a direct upgrade that's still garbage.
"how to use stock fireaxe:
step 1: DON'T
step 2: USE ANY OTHER MELEE"
@@user-bo6vy5eg8g i love the sharpened volcano fragment
This weapon really makes you wanna lean back in your chair and yell "GABE NEWELL" at your ceiling tbh
ua-cam.com/video/Q5-nGXmkU9c/v-deo.html
I know I’m really late to the party but imagine if it had a passive effect like the Back Scratcher, where you don’t have to have it open you just equip it and whatever upside and downside it has will be passive. If not that maybe it could have a mechanic like whenever someone is hit with it, for some period of time all damage they take will be transferred across others with the banner, healing source etc.
When the stock Fireaxe is such a shit weapon, that even a direct upgrade to it is a shit weapon.
stock melees are all right, but could use a stat or two to be better and since they are stock, that means little to no downsides compared to unlocks.
edit. I am not saying that the reliability of stock weapons is bad, but that just being reliable is not enough. some situational things for melees are needed like "third hit does XYZ" and "alt fire does XYZ" and even a "on kill: get buff" while the medic would need alt fires that do burst healing as a core class mechanic to at least have good options to move away from the Crusader Crossbow ubersaw meta.
@@drivanradosivic1357 nerf crossbow and ubersaw, WE NEED MORE LOVE TO THE OVERDOSE/AMPUTATOR
@@filomes NO! Do not cripple good items, make the bad items as good as the meta items!
what do the Crossbow and Ubersaw have? Crossbow has burst healing support, while the Ubersaw is Uber on hit.
my suggestion is a core class improvement of the medic with alt fires that do burst healing.
Primary alt fires that I call Med Packs are basically a Medic Sandvich(medium health pack, 30 second recharge, cannot heal you if you pick it up, map pick ups at full health recharge the meter, and in the medic's case all Med Packs give 5% uber on heal).
Melees alt fires are Injector Syringes(Disciplinary action like mechanics, meaning longer reach to help the team, 15 seconds cooldown, you cannot pick up stuff to recharge it, when meter is full you give smal health pack worth of healtht that overheals/20% health that can overheal, but you have a 25 damage fast swing speed melee with no random crits on your alt fire for those 15 seconds and the stock syringe gives 5% uber on hit as well) plus you can press R when melee is active to self buff.
For Amputator, regen can overhela to 30HP when active, it gets a Hospitalier meter that causes an aoe of the healing aura for 8 seconds and you only use the priamry and melee during this time.
Vita saw is alt fire uses organs for 15% uber now instead of after death and 15HP on hit that overheals to 30HP.
@@drivanradosivic1357 yeah but, the meta items are TOO good, expecially for medic
The taunt is pretty good tho
Lol yeah, the number of people who know the difference is the same as the ones who know lollichop has a different taunt
Actually hearing the guitar noise is so swag.
I'm surprised it took this long to find this comment.
Wow didn't expect this, thanks for something to put on in the background while I finish my essay at 3 am I guess?
This weapon really makes you axe
"what was valve thinking?"
that was axesolutely terrible
@@hattedmoron555 I can't believe you made fun of his axellent joke
@@hattedmoron555 Axectly,my friend
@@icetide9411 Axecuse me?
this is quite axetonishing
that Ratchet & Clank soundtrack on opening gave me 2006 flashbacks. excellent music choice as always Mr. Fish
Honestly the consept behind this weapon seems more fitting for spy but it would need some heavy downsides to balance it
This video in a nutshell: *Pyro weapon stereotypes*
someone's salty about the vac
Waiting on the comments defending the weapon saying: "BuT iTs A dIrEcT uPgRaDe"
but its a direct upgrade
but its a direct upgrade
but it's a direct upgrade.
@@theslamjamfrincisco2820 if anything, people are using that to further diss it.
a direct upgrade with an effect that is usable so little that the weapons with actual downsides are better 99% of the time
My personal hot take is that The Third Degree is actually a secret downgrade to the Fire Axe. You wouldnt normally think of breaking out your melee but when you see that medi-beam you just gotta go for it. If an upgrade tanks your K:D ratio then it really isn't an upgrade.
The pyr's Fire Axe was a decent utility weapon before airblast was introduced.
6:43
Sniper disapproves of your melee strategy
Underrated comment imo
That ratchet and Clank OST brought back massive memories
Finally someone recognized this game, the ost is so amazing.
Me watching this vid who just bought a strangifier for the third degree: well fuck......
Add a strange part for medics killed for the meme.
At least now you know it's not one of the bottom feeder weapons like Pomson , SVF or Gas Passer
Third Degree Buff: Make it a throwable axe that crits on overhealed players. When thrown, give it a 30 second recharge meter.
6:28 the ambush class.. uses ambush tactics? lol
wouldn't the rainblower also be an upgrade since it has a tauntkill?
Yes... but is it worth the godawful visual shit you and the enemy have to see through?
@@bruschetta7711 most maps aren’t pyroland enabled
yes, it's a direct upgrade
@@Skullhawk13 but yet the blood still being balloons
@@MrElectro-gs6qu that’s not really a downside. A better counterpoint would be voice line confusion.
If I were remaking the Third Degree, I would use the Universal Connected Player Bonus like you said. But this is how I would do it.
Pros:
- Hits all players connected Via Medigun Beams, Dispenser Beams, and Amputator Heal Range.
- +25% Damage Bonus vs Connected Players
- +10% Movement Speed While Deployed
Cons:
- +25% Slower Switch from/Deploy Speed.
- -20% Damage Penalty vs Non Connected Players
- No Random Cracker Critical Hits
The reason I gave it a speed boost while deployed but a slower sheath and deploy speed, was so that when you pull it out you gotta make sure you commit to the ambush. Also I didn’t add the Banner effects to my version of the stat, cause you shouldn’t be able to hit basically the whole team with one swing. That’d be stupid.
crits are kinda the whole point tho
Lies!
So basically, it's a vac-clapper.
I love how every weapon you talk about is at least somewhat viable in MvM
4:24 how is the back scratcher on the same tier in combat as the powerjack? It's just better fire axe 90% of the time.
Right when I thought the video was over, you hit me with five endings like The Return of the King.
i will say this
I'm incredibly jealous of your fast success but i gotta hand it to you
you make very nice vids
keep it up
Wow, I'm surprised you didn't get shot straight to the top of the comments
"Oh boy, 3am!"
There’s no need to festivize the Third Degree, it already looks like a candy cane.
what if it dealt mini crits to everyone connected but the drawback would be that i could not deal random critical hits and would deal less to targets that are currently not healed
When you are so early that its actually Second Degree.
I think it could be changed to: Crit to player conected through a healing beam, no damage to enemy struck conected to a beam, 20% damage penalty. Honestly I think the weapon need an overhaul, but with this changes you could one hit a not overheal Medic.
That homewrecker joke was what i needed today. Amazing video keep it up!
this video felt more like a video on why the default axe is bad with third degree buffs at the end
Just wanted to thank you for your videos, I recently got back into playing TF2 casually after watching your content and it has been very nostalgic. Much love, keep up the good work!
Me: *enjoying the video’s intro*
Also me: *sees the part where he types in chat and that someone named “gaming” replied to it*
Also also me: HOLY SHIT THAT’S ME-
I've seen you
If the third degree did the connected medic-patient damage thing when you actually hold out the third degree it would be op. You put some fire on a medic who is pocketing a scoot with a pistol as a secondary and then pull the third degree out. BAM! Telekinetic fire.
What I came for: How to use 3rd Degree effectively
What I got: Vaccinator is bad because I cant learn how to counter it
It literally prevents any way of an individual to win an already uneven matchup
@@bruschetta7711 just like any other uber?
The Shahasha is actually a really good Counter to the Vacc, extra damage at lower health means you get a good reason to get in for the kill. OR the Jarate, Bushwacka Combo.
@@bruschetta7711 You mean. Medic does what Medic does? Also, Every Class has MELEE. Most classes have a melee that if trained enough to use they can really break the vVcc.
@@macabweu7682 melee? And what classes would be able to kill the Medic and the guy he's healing? Without crits (cuz you know remove crits from the game amirite?)
Most likely you would die with any class before reaching the target, you would need to play Spy or Demoknight and let's say that they aren't very effective outside of this one scenario that they still most likely lose
The only way Vaccinator would be fine to me is if they remove stacking recistencies OR lowering the amount of charges from 4 to 3
Fsoas in the BWA about the Equalizer: "I can't just say " Go out there and hope for a random crit"
Fsoas now: "Give them a taste of Gaben's fury"
My suggestions for stat change would be to keep the same gimmick, but add on a stat that crits overhealed players, encouraging you to attack the pocket, witch basically already means death.
Add on a -25% damage and 20% slower swing speed. The damage penalty would cause a crit to do 147, leaving the medic barely standing.
The crit on overheal would also be usefull in nieche circumstances such as battling a kunai Spy
Unavoidable damage from a source that you have no control over kinda sucks. That’s why I can’t really see the third degree being buffed to effect things like the buff banner.
Bad weapon? The Third Degree? It’s a direct upgrade from stock and has a custom guitar sound for its taunt! How could it possibly be bad?
Say what you will but I really like the model for this thing.
Third degree might be the coolest pyro melee
Melee hits aren't inconsistent. Fish just hasn't realised you have to have your crosshair on them. It's ok I get it, I'm a Reinhardt main.
At least pyro uses it as a guitar during a taunt and it actually plays music. Enough for me to love it.
i only equip this thing for the sound it makes when you taunt with it
2:24 that spy fail though.
ratchet and clank soundtrack? not a bad choice for the third degree
Yeah the Ratchet and Clank ost fits in to this intro, you just like in game smashing enemies like from Ratchet and Clank.
*Alternative title:* Bad Weapons Academy: Pyro Melee Stock.
6:44 "you little creature have understimated my power by showing in the line of my sight, you should be ashamed of yourself"