Highlights of the Sarum Mass at St. Thomas's Anglican Church, Toronto, Candlemas, 2 February 2010
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- Опубліковано 8 гру 2010
- "A faithful attempt to portray what Candlemas may have looked like sometime in the early 16th century in an English parish."
This is a High Anglican (Anglo-Catholic) service, and my personal favourite tradition.
introibo1000 Anglicans who have converted to Roman Catholicism, and who have kept their liturgy and other traditions with Vatican approval, are called Anglican-Use Roman Catholics. Anglo-Catholics are Anglicans or Episcopalians who have priests versus "ministers, religious orders of monks and nuns, and who make use of traditions, vestments, rituals, etc. that are "catholic" in nature, but not "Roman Catholic", because their use predates the time in which the Catholic Church became known AS Roman Catholic. Do a Google search for "Oxford Movement" to understand how and why these traditions ere re-introduced into the English church in the 19th century.
I Agree Beautiful Tradition.
Agreed
Beautiful!!! How I pray that one day, the Sarum Rite will be THE liturgy to celebrate. I found this far more uplifting that the Tridentine Mass.
Jonathan Philips Its beautiful but I prefer Tridentine. I would definitely attend both. Thank you.
My name is Robert Mitchell and I was the initiator, researcher and, with the enormous support and assistance of the rector of the parish, the primary organizer of this liturgy. Many others were involved in this effort, too numerous to mention here. Although I am a priest, I can be seen in this video wearing a tunicle and fulfilling the role of “Clerk,” including censing the cantors. We held this Mass during my time as an Associate Priest at St. Thomas’s, Huron Street, Toronto (2008-2016). I’d like to explain a little a bit about what we were trying to do.
St. Thomas’s is a part of the anglo-catholic tradition within Anglicanism that primarily uses the Book of Common Prayer for its worship services. The Book of Common Prayer was developed largely based on the Sarum Mass that came before it in England. In fact, several of the prayers are simply translations of the Latin prayers of the Mass. As Anglicans who worship with the BCP every day, and who look to both our Anglican and pre-reformation heritage to inform our current practises, we decided to hold this Mass as a form of liturgical, spiritual and historical education for ourselves and our parish. It was a part of series of Communion services including a 1549 Book of Common Prayer Mass (the first BCP) and a 1552 Book of Common Prayer Communion service.
We were not pretending to be Roman Catholics nor to be living in the 16th Century (the electric lights, central heating, and frequent bathing of our parishioners would make that difficult to pull off!). Likewise, this was intended to be an act of authentic Anglican worship, not simply a historical recreation with actors. That is why we intentionally chose to offer Communion to the laity, and to offer it in both kinds, as this is a fundamental element of Anglican worship. Nor did we exclude female servers who form a vital part of St. Thomas’s servers’ guild.
The anglo-catholic tradition within Anglicanism is beautiful and historic, and from it has emerged countless missionaries, poets, theologians, and even a saint (Saint John Henry Newman). Anglicanism in general has produced some of the best preachers, musicians, hymns (many of which are sung by Roman Catholics), theologians, and architecture in the world. I encourage you to watch this video with respect for our tradition, even if it is different than yours, and consider the context and purpose for which it was produced. Thank you for watching and commenting.
right, slightly confused- you, an anglican, are claiming st john henry Newman, a convert to catholicism, a saint?
@@elijahwills7331 Hi Elijah, my suggestion is simply that the Anglican tradition has produced a significant contribution to the larger Christian tradition. And that people from many other traditions have been enriched by the contributions made by Anglicans (or, in Newman's case, an Anglican who eventually converted to Catholicism). I was speaking to those on this thread who were saying negative things about traditions other than own, and attempting to suggest that the Anglican tradition is worthy of respect.
@@robertmitchell3253 hello
I understand the larger body of your comment, I just fail to see what you mean when you refer to john henry newman as a saint. The process of recognition as a saint is tied up with the holy see, and as you presumably see no primacy of the bishop of rome over the other sees of the world, why would you think that anyone canonized by the pope (at least post-reformation) a saint?
@@elijahwills7331 I think one of the hallmarks of Anglicanism is respect for other traditions. By referring to him as a saint, I am not making any judgement about him. I am acknowledging that his adopted Church, the Catholic Church, has declared him to be so. It's simply a gesture of respect for that tradition and his place within it. To not use the title given to him by his own denomination would seem rather disrespectful, in my opinion. The whole purpose of my original comment was to ask for respect for the Anglican tradition. For me not to offer it for the Catholic tradition would be rather hypocritical on my part!
Very eloquently expressed.
Thank you 🙏
I am Evangelical Anglican in North Central Nigeria but to say the fact i love this Anglo Catholic the most.
Good to see another Nigerian who loves the Anglo-Catholic tradition.
Very well done by the parish. Regards from a Catholic friend and brother in Christ. BTW, I was a Franciscan in Assisi in 1966 when there was a first encounter of Anglican and Catholic religious order members, and I helped the Italian friar, Fr. Berardo Capezzali, who hosted the event under that holy bishop of Assisi, Giuseppe Placido Nicolini OSB. The religious were members of different congregations.
The Anglicans were all English and the Catholics all Americans ! I still remember an Anglican Franciscan, Fr. Peter, who sadly died some time later (do not remember how much later) and Dom Patrick Dalton OSB of Nashdom. Miss those good brothers in Christ.
May God bring us together once again ! God bless our dear Anglican brethren !
Peace and Wellbeing, Pace e Bene, Pax et Bonum.
I went to Assisi twice as part of an ecumenical conference based upon the teachings of Fr. Thomas Berry. My tradition is very High Church Anglican & I preserve these exquisite and endangered traditions in my heart. At the same time I seek to reach out to other “points of Light” with the prayer that together we may change the negative direction of this world and together create a new Garden of Eden where we can glorify the Creator in love and harmony with each other and with great nature. Let us follow the example of both St. Francis and the Jewish tradition of Tikkun to heal this 🌍 world as compassionate and loving stewards.
@@lecaprice2572
“Tell me you’re a Kabbalist, without actually telling me you’re a Kabbalist.”
There is only one path, my friend. All other roads lead to destruction. Ave Christus Rex!
@@permanenceaesthetic6545 🤔
I made an informal search for the use of the SARUM RITE in the UK away back in 1978. Most clergy and chorister exclaimed it was scarce a usage. I'm glad to hear and see St. Thomas's in Toronto celebrating the Sarum Liturgy.
The consecration is invalid, though, nor the mass is legal.
@@krzysztofkruczynski3789 The mass legal? Then why doesn't the police show up and stop it? Strange wording.
The celebrant is well aware of how to cense an altar as described in Fortescue-O'Connell, and owns his own copy of Fortescue-O'Connell. In fact, he censes the altar every Sunday in the way described by Fortescue-O'Connell.
Does anyone find it kind of sad that some of these high Protestant Churches look and act more traditional than most catholic parishes nowadays.
Krist-yon Narain Yes....sigh, very sad indeed.
Yes and it's even worse that most Catholics born after the 80's can hardly recognise our liturgy of 500+ years
I like it this way. It emphasises the superiority of Anglicanism and Episcopalianism over the novus ordo 'catholics' and over the erred ways of the overly traditional Tridentine Roman catholics.
I love a well executed liturgy but this has a bit too much hocus pocus for me.
@Traditional Catholicthe Stop blaming Vatican II. The 1962 Roman rite was the mass of Vatican II. 5 years after the close of the council, the church authorized the 1970 Roman Rite which introduced all of the changes in worship.
No recorders, handbells, guitars! Now that Benedict XVI has restored the Tridentine Extrordinary Mass the RC's can once again witness the dignified service that Anglican parishes like this have had!
The Tridentine mass has doubled in the last 10 years from 208 masses in 2007 to 480 in 2017. The splendor of the Church has indeed returned. Deus Vult!!
@@mosesking2923 "Not so fast!" - Pope Francis
His Grace Bishop Keith L. Ackerman, retired VII Bishop of Quincy is the vicar of my parish, St. Timothy's Anglican Church, Fort Worth Texas. We have a complete gold vestment set of historically accurate Sarum Vestments. He wears the full pontificals as well.
He's no bishop, because anglicans have invalid sacraments
@@krzysztofkruczynski3789 Says an invalid Romanist.
@@krzysztofkruczynski3789 I love the high-and-mighty "Catholic" way of things. "The only way to salvation is through us, said one of OUR leaders!"
I love the liturgy in the Anglican church.
If you love Anglican liturgy, how about go to an Ordinariate Parish and become Catholic?
@@Thurifer2005 Because some or many of us would disagree with Catholic doctrine itself.
@@adamm2693 why just not admit that Catholic Doctrine is the truth? You know, Anglicans are heretics, right?
I wish this is what the Roman Catholic Church would have gone back to instead of the modern crap we have now. This Anglican church is blessed to have this, and may it continue to be blessed.
I was there! And I took some pics also! Something unique and historical!
This is so beautiful!
Truly beautiful.
I will one day come and worship with you people,greetings you from Benue state North Central Nigeria(am a priest)
@coldlittle This is a Solemn High Mass using the Sarum Use, which was the main Rite used throughout England before the Reformation. There were a number of other Uses in the English Church such as the Uses of York, Durham and Hereford to name a few.
Is this the one that uses Latin ?
Why do they insist on cutting off the glorious music of Tallis every time they begin? Ruined the best part of the 16th century mass: the music.
Sacred choreography. Beautiful and dignified.
So few left in many Anglican Churches the congregation could sit in the chancel/choir and be closer to the service in the sanctuary. But choirs should be "heard and not seen", ie. in the choir gallery usually in the "west end". Healey Willen was a great contributor to the choral settings.
What a wunderful liturgy! Where could I get a Missal of Sarum Rite?
Beautiful,
If i become a priest I want to run a church like this!
Miss the high anglican masses
Yes, sadly they are an endangered species. I remember wonderful High Church processions around the exterior of the church on Easter singing Vaughan William’s “Hail Thee Festival Day”. Very inspiring!
And the beautiful annual processions at the Shrine of Our Lady of Walsingham.
Surely in the Sarun Rite there were neither female ministers nor servers nor would the people have received Communion in the hand. If recreating such an ancient rite please get it correct!!
It's not about the rite but about the Apostolic Tradition and anglicans fell away from it a few centuries ago.
From someone who was in the congregation: this wasn't a re-creation or re-construction, but an actual celebration of the Mass. We were not pretending to *be* in the 16th century, or passing ourselves off as anything other than members of the Anglican Church of Canada. If we were going for historical reproduction, we wouldn't have received Communion in both kinds either, and indeed there wouldn't be a mass at 6pm to begin with!
Communion would also be restricted to those who had been confirmed, and all the priests would be not only men but also unmarried. I am pretty confident that Dean Neelands (a Hooker expert) could comfortably preach in authentic Tudor English but he did not contrive to do so.
If this were a Catholic Sarum Mass none of the protestant anglican liturgical abominations would be present. Like most of "High Church" Anglican worship it's sadly pretentious and is pretty much a " Liturgical drag Show!" As Pope Leo XIII said about Anglican Holy Order, "They have always been, and continue to be ABSOLUTELY AND UTTERLY VOID!"
R W funny that’s exactly what we think of anglicans
@R W well this is our mass friend lol
Brought to you by the Normans
Listen to that sweet haunting sound of that PIPE ORGAN STOP, so lovely....The Organist is excellent, the stops on the Organ are clear/ lucid. Where is the Organ located? They always hide the Organ? Bless you
I'm a Roman Catholic but I love this liturgical rite because it is very beautiful although it is not a Roman Catholic Service.
I'm Christian orthodox living in the U.K. On Christmas Eve I went to the midnight mass and I got communion i saw non priests and women giving the body and blood of Jesus Christ I directed myself to the bishop and opened my mouth to receive communion while before I made the sign of the cross saying "body and blood of Christ torn up for us in forgiveness of our sins and eternal life Amen" he looked at me as if I was an alien then I took the grail and shipped three times symbolizing the holy trinity the girl wanted to give me the wine something very strange for my understanding of communion, other than that the mass and the music was an incredible experience in very simple manner and language
Good for you for doing it right. I have never been in an Orthodox church that was as informal as what you describe, but I have attended only Orthodox Church of America and Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia services, so that might explain it.
Sounds very strange for my understanding! Do this, as oft as ye shall drink it, in remembrance of me
Anglicans dont have valid holy orders, so it wasn’t really the body and blood of Christ.
@@King-uj1lh First, today's RCC is neither Roman (Rome is now a secular city with the Pope sequestered into his Vatican enclave) nor Catholic (having abandoned the Apostolic Tradition) nor is it a true Church (rather, it is a large neo-pagan cult).
Second, the idea of the RCC as the continuing Church is false. After the Great Schism of 1054, the continuing Church was the Orthodox Church because Jerusalem (the East) predated Rome (the West). After the glorious Reformation, the continuing Church was the Reformed Church because the restored ethos (the "solas") of the Apostolic Church predated their corruption by apostate Romanism.
@@annefranciselizabeth3840 bro idc about ur uniformed slander of the true church.
aleluia.
@hensca
where is your video? I've looked for it but can't find it.
Jim of Olym
Low Church or High Church refers to ceremonial and fixins not whether Jesus is present in the Holy Eucharist. The words in the liturgy are quite clear that the communicant receives the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. However without making a definition such as Trans- or Con-substantiation or any other theory of Presence.
However, what we were endeavouring to do in this Mass was to follow the rubrics of the Sarum Missal -- which are admittedly somewhat obscure or unclear -- but are clearly NOT the same as the method of censing an altar that we have become used to in more recent centuries, in the "Western Rite". The same can be said about the elevation of the Sacred Species. The rubrics of the Sarum Missal are definitely NOT the same as the those of the Tridentine Mass.
The Tridentine rite is a late-comer, compiled from numerous Medieval sources. Its rubrics very likely represent ceremonial that was popular at the time Tridentine was compiled.
Sarum Rite, or more correctly, the Sarum Use is the Use of Roman Rite by the Church of Sailsbury which was, at the time, in communion with the Chair of Peter. Sarum Use is Catholic liturgy - just like Dominican, Carmelite, Carthusian, Ambrosian and numerous other western Rites are.
And Anglicans are catholic, so that would stand to reason.
what's up with the communion in the hand? is this the original sarum rite(Catholic rite) or the Cranmers reformed rite?
Cool! (BTW I'm a Traditionalist Catholic)
Cool and Invalid
@@paulbryancatolico3616 How dare you! Don't insult Nezuko's religion! Catholics are just as valid as any church. Have some respect!
Why 3 crosses though?
@sfg078
same here...and that is a faithful attempt... -.-''
An Anglican Latin Mass? Wow, Never Thought I'd See That. Is This A Roman Liturgy?
why are they lifting his chasuble at the Eucharist?
It's a tradition dating back when the day when the priest wore a "conical chasuble" which was hard to use in terms of mobility and therefore required the assistance of deacons or servers by lifting it in certain moments of the liturgy for easier mobility. This lasted even with the introduction of the Gothic and Roman Chasubles which gave easier mobility to the priest.
This is the Latin version of the mass? I can't tell though.
yes
I meant to write "in" between "on" and "the Anglican. . ." I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings.
Female servers in a 16th century English parish? Hah!
"People not suffering from scrofula and cholera in a C16 english parish? I L A U G H "
polemeros I was thinking the same thing... errrrr
@@silenciummortum2193 you mean, that there are no congregants suffering from cholera AT ALL? Blasphemy!
How I pray that oned
Actually I appreciate the female servers, thank God for Anglicanism!! 👏
Communion on hand in pre reformation England, rly guys?
Book of common prayer 1549
@jimofolym Hi Jim, You should have been able to find it by clicking on my name, then browsing through my videos. I can't seem to post a direct link here, but the video name (paste it after the v= above) is WnTXNfmXq2g
2:09
Check out my video of Candlemas at St. Thomas's in 1986... it's an even more faithful reproduction :-)
The Anglican Church of Canada allows for woman servers, priests, and indeed Bishops. The first being Rt. Rev. Victoria Matthews. Now Bishop of Christ Church NZ.
women in the sanctuary. communion in the hand. untroped Kyrie. yeah, 'a faithful attempt' alright. hah.
I can almost forgive the girl acolytes.
Well, I don't believe the 16th century church in England had quite gone to the heresy of ordaining women and letting them serve at the altar.
You may see ordaining women as a heresy, but you cannot oppose women serving at the altar unless you despise them as ritually unclean. Having said that, I agree that either as priests or even servers it would be unthinkable in the early 16th century for women to be in the sanctuary during mass.
@@johnclare3695 You can still recognize that women serving in the sanctuary is unfitting today without going to the extreme you mentioned
@TrainmasterCurt No probably no female altar servants then but it is perfect in order [also] with the [Roman] Catholic tradition to have such. But on the other hand; the haircuts of the clergy is not the typical haircuts of the 16th century.
Because they are Invalid. This is not an actual mass ,but only a roleplaying
English Latin would have been more authentic - no 'loochis'for 'lucis' And what about a troped Kyrie? That was a distinguishing feature of Sarum. And how many parish churches had an organ?
You're right there. I don't know if the Kyrie was troped for ordinary Sundays or Lady Masses, but certainly for a feast like Candlemas. As for English Latin, I'm a big fan of it, but you don't often hear even professional choirs specializing in this repertoire use it - and (while they do know some details), I don't think there's a clear consensus on how exactly it would be pronounced, let alone the fact that (as with spoken English at the time) it would be pronounced differently in York than in Canterbury or London.
Actually, not faithful to Sarum at the consecration, the use of female altar servers, communion in the hand and son.
Believe what you will. I believe in complete freedom, and that's the point. Intolerant? That tag is the complete opposite of who I am, though it's clear from your tone that you've a problem with that kind of thing in your own being. Facts need to be faced. Many Anglicans are deeply troubled by what's going on the Anglican communion and would find more peace of soul as Catholics. Life is too short to cause oneself undue suffering. And if you stop your judgmentalism you will be happier, too.
Good effort, but trying to do UoS in a modern church building is like trying to play golf on a tennis court.
Certainly, youtube is no place for theological debates. I'm sorry if I offended you. It's nothing personal. You are probably closer to God than I, and I say this sincerely. I need prayers. So say one please for me.
@sfg078 I know that is offensive to the traditions of the historic Catholic church but this is obviously not the historic Catholic Church. It is a Protestant movement founded in the 1500's imitating some parts of the Catholic Church.
it looks soooo Catholic...:)
well, it's because of the close proximity of Anglican Church tradition with Roman Catholic liturgy~
Well, late 19th and 20th century Anglo-Catholic tradition.
They wouldn't have been altar girls, either.
Nope.
First thing I noticed, to be accurate there would be no women!
There would DEFINITELY not be communion in the hand either.
No female altar servers (it is sacrilege), no women in the quire stalls or anywhere else beyond the rood screen, Holy Communion on the tongue, and no organ in the Sarum Use.
Jacob S Well for a start organs were used in medieval England....
Female altar servers is not a sacrilege for two very important reasons. 1. It is the Anglican Church of Canada which decides who can serve. 2. Galations chapter three says that gender is not important in the eyes of GOD. It's not sacrilege.
@@morganm5370 Yes but not in antiquity. Although the Use of Sarum in Salisbury is not a Gallican Rite but a use of the Roman Rite, it is still distinctly English. And in the ancient English tradition, ac capella was the standard, the use of the pipe organ is an innovation of Roman origin.
@@troyvance9533 Historically, acolytes, where men who had been confered in minor orders. They were, along with cantors, lectors, porters, and exorcists, all men. All the holy orders, both minor and major, are for men alone. This has ALWAYS been the case.
@@JacobSnell1998 I know that. I was in seminary for the Roman Catholic Church.
I have to agree that censing of the altar was a very strange affair.
Still Invalid.
"A faithful attempt to portray what Candlemas may have looked like sometime in the early 16th century in an English parish." ...apart from the women in cassock and surplice... and even tunic... just as the first example that stood out... ...and communing in the hand? No.
Rome is Mother and Teacher! Mater et Magister!
Rome rapes her children.
@@troyvance9533 aaawww easy
and women might have covered their heads as well!
The good news is they have invalid consecration.
As do you, according to Eastern Orthodoxy. Good news too - it would be way worse sacrilege the way communion is treated in Roman Catholicism.
There may be some radical orthodox who hold that opinion, but the majority recognize the validity of Catholic Holy Orders. What is clear beyond any shadow of a doubt is that both the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church in the words of Pope Leo XIIII believe that , " Anglican Orders have always been, and continue to be ABSOLUTELY NULL AND UTTERLY VOID!" Nothing more than pretentious liturgical "drag show" in which overly dressed laymen and women pretend to be priests and play with bread and wine!
@@giovanniserafino1731 the bishop of Rome was excomunicated by the Bishop of Constantinople in 1054. If a priest is excommunicated, his orderes are null and void. The same is true for the bishop of Rome. Your church hasn't had a valid Eucharist since then. A pope got mad at the archbishop of Canterbury and then, in a fit of rage, declared the anglican orders to be invalid. No pope has authority over any church but his. He can't even run his own church so he can stay off of mine.
@@giovanniserafino1731 pope Leo XIIII was a pedophile. He was nothing to us.
Why's this good news? Are you happy?
I do agree with the female server part, also the Anglican Church of Canada has gone astray with same-sex marriage and new-age practices which are forbidden by God Almighty. Nonetheless a good attempt to re-create a mediaeval Sarum Mass, but All Saints North Street in England did a better job in their re-creation
"Gone astray" with same-sex marriage? You see, this is why the Ordinariates won't work.
@cunjoz @MyBetty111 For heaven's sake, they're Anglicans. Just be glad this isn't some feminist puppet clown mass. St. Thomas is one the last bastions of classical Christianity in the Anglican Church of Canada.
As would the CIA and the BBC and the FBI and the KKK and the FCC and I say let em. Cause by their fruits you will know em.
I wonder if they used serviettes? Sometimes one sees these girls in so-called Anglo-Catholic and RC establishments...Stephan
Holy Communion IN THE HAND?!? FEMALE alter servers? oh dear...
Meanwhile Papists be like: "rEjEcT CrInGe pRoTeStAnT HeAdBaNgInG"
In fact there was no reformation in the English church. It is still in the darkness of Rome
We consider ourselves to be in the Light of the ancient Tradition. It is the radical protestants who are in darkness.
@@wfcoaker1398 indeed. I've always thought of Anglicanism as a revision. Extreme Protestants are so off their rockers, it's insane.
CATHOLICS/ORTHODOX: "This is My Body."
ANGLICANS: "This may or may not be my Body, depending whether you're in a High or Low Church."
The Catholic Church, whose teachings came directly from Christ, from Scripture, from the holy Apostles, believe in the Real Presence and Transubstantiation since the beginning, a 2000 year-old firm belief.
Real Presence? Look on the Didache or Teachings of the Twelve Apostles, on the works of Justin Martyr, on the works of Ignatius of Antioch. That defines the Church's teaching on the Eucharist, aside from the Holy Scripture, on John 6:51ff.
Nevertheless, I pray for Christian unity.
I am an Ultra-Catholic - No 'Anglo-'*, I beseech you!
You'll find no heresy in anything I teach you.
The clergyman across the road has whiskers and a bowler,
But I wear buckles on my shoes and sport a Feriola.
My alb is edged with deepest lace, spread over rich black satin;
The psalms of Dahvid I recite in heaven's own native Latin,
And, though I don't quite understand those awkward moods and tenses,
My ordo recitandi's strict Westmonasteriensis.
I teach the children in my school the Penny Catechism,
Explaining how the C of E's in heresy and schism.
The truths of Trent and Vatican I bate not one iota.
I have not met the rural Dean. I do not pay my quota.
The Bishop's put me under his 'profoundest disapproval'
And, though he cannot bring about my actual removal,
He will not come and visit me or take my confirmations.
Colonial prelates I employ from far-off mission-stations.
The music we perform at Mass is Verdi and Scarlatti.
Assorted females form the choir; I wish they weren't so catty.
Two flutes, a fiddle and a harp assist them in the gallery.
The organist left years ago, and so we save his salary.
We've started a 'Sodality of John of San Fagondez,'
Consisting of the five young men who serve High Mass on Sundays;
And though they simply will not come to weekday Mass at seven,
They turn out looking wonderful on Sundays at eleven.
The Holy Father I extol in fervid perorations,
The Cardinals in curia, the Sacred Congregations;
And, though I've not submitted yet, as all my friends expected,
I should have gone last Tuesday week, had not my wife objected.
that's funny but not true: Both Anglican creeds stress transubstantion.
Anglicanus1 unfortunately you are correct that too many Catholics lack respect for the Eucharist, I say that as a Catholic myself. However, that doesn’t hange what the Church teaching which is in accordance with the fathers of the church like clement of Alexandria and St. Justin Martyr. Compared to the Anglican Church which quickly fell into heresy, it’s obvious which Church has the Truth.
@@mosesking2923 The fact of Romanist apostasy is incontrovertible.
For the salvation of your soul, please stop believing that Rome is maintaining "Tradition". Rome merely uses fidelity to "Tradition" as a loophole to preach and practice abominations (cf. Mark 7:13). For instance, consider the issue of relics and the veneration of "incorruptible" saints, which has been topical since the partially decomposed body of a black nun was found a few weeks ago (the so-called "the Miracle of Missouri").
The position of the Bible & the Fathers/Doctors of the Early Church is unanimous: it's abominable to turn a corpse or a part thereof into an object of veneration. There are hundreds of Romanist "incorruptibles" but NO incorruptible in biblical records both in the NT and OT (including Rome's deuterocanonical books). Let me repeat for emphasis. There is no incorruptible saint/prophet/virgin/martyr/ patriarch /matriarch/apostle/evangelist/ priest/disciple etc., throughout the millennia of biblical history. The miracle of Elisha's bones was the restoration of life which is the ONLY biblical way God shows his postmortem power over the dead. No Jew thereafter descended into the depravity of unearthing and praying to dead bones or partially putrefied corpses.
The amazing thing is that in maintaining this particular "Tradition" of necromancy (a practice directly forbidden in the Bible) Romanists not only refuse to heed the consistent witness of the Holy Spirit in Scripture but also reject the early Church fathers and doctors!
St. Athanasius, Patriarch (Pope) of Alexandria (and the foremost defender of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity), writing in the 360s says this of Anthony the Great (the first Christian monk), believed to have died in 356 in his one hundred and sixth year:
“The brethren were trying to persuade Anthony to stay with them until he died, but he refused because of the custom of the Egyptian Christians to venerate the corpses of men of distinction, especially the holy martyrs, wrapping them up in linen, and laying them on low beds [epi skimpodiôn]. In this way, they thought they were honouring the departed. Many a bishop did Anthony ask to preach against this; he cried shame on the laity, saying the practice was illegal and unholy, for the bodies of the patriarchs and prophets remain within their tombs to this day; and even the body of the Lord was placed in a sepulchre and a stone set in place to conceal it until he rose again three days later. In these words, St. Anthony demonstrated the perversity of not putting away the bodies of the deceased after death, no matter how holy the corpses might be, for what could be greater or more holy than the body of the Lord? So, many who heard finally concealed [their deceased] beneath the ground; and they gave thanks to the Lord for having been so well instructed.”
All his life, St. Athanasius fought against the preservation/veneration of relics, which he declared to be distasteful, unchristian, and even dangerous to health.
Commenting on Anthony''s example, St. Jerome the Great writing ca 390, stated that when St. Hilary visited the site of Antony’s death, “the elder also asked to be shown the place of Antony’s tomb, whereupon they took him aside, claiming that the reason for concealing its whereabouts was Antony’s directive; this was to ensure that Pergamius, an extremely wealthy person in those parts, should not remove the body of the saint to his villa and construct a martyrion.”
God's way is to restore life; the Romanist "Tradition" is to claim that decomposition is incomplete (all "incorruptibles" are partially decomposed). The Roman "Church" finds it necessary to wax over the faces of their "incorruptibles" on public display; some even have dedicated morticians who tend them.
What Romanists are practicing is akin to voodoo or shamanism, not Catholic Christianity. In fact, the whole idea of a waxed/partially decayed/venerated body is a fitting metaphor for Romanism - the core of the true Gospel is gone, the Spirit has departed, and yet artful priest-morticians spare no effort to keep up the seeming "beauty" and "grandeur" and “incorruptibility” of the ecclesiastical corpse! So sad!!
This particular nefarious "Tradition" of Rome led to the trafficking, racketeering, and black markets that developed around the "relics" of "saints" who were promoted by Romanism. The revulsion against these scandalous practices was a major factor in turning Europe against Christianity. Yet Romanists like you continue on this same path of perfidy.
Dear friend, I urge you to leave Romanism behind and embrace the Truth as revealed in the Holy Scriptures. Then and only then will you have true salvation and peace. May God deliver you. Amen.
You must have forgotten. Back the the masses weren't Invalid and there were not women serving either.
How can you honestly prove that claim?
it looks catholic but there are women in the altar dressing similar to priests and they don't really seem to respect the communion
Why would you want to go to an inmitation mass when you can have the real thing?
+The Friendly Fascist Sorry but the last I checked St. Peter has the keys.
+The Friendly Fascist Shame on you for mocking the Holy Father, the successor to Saint Peter. When you mock the Holy Father you are mocking God. He is the one that sets up the Holy Roman Catholic Church and the Office of the Papacy. May God have mercy on your soul. Do you think your Bishop is the successor of St. Peter? Henry the multiple adulterer the head of your church? Be serious... The Office of all Bishops were passed on down Acts 1:19-20 19And it became known to all who were living in Jerusalem; so that in their own language that field was called Hakeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)20"For it is written in the book of Psalms, 'LET HIS HOMESTEAD BE MADE DESOLATE, AND LET NO ONE DWELL IN IT'; and, 'LET ANOTHER MAN TAKE HIS OFFICE.' Your Ecclesiastical Community was excommunicated and has no authority what so ever. You're worshiping air!
+The Friendly Fascist I don't by it. you ain't got the keys bro. The keys are with Peter and his successors. why should I rest my eternal salvation on your faulty interpretation of scripture. what credentials do you have to trump 2000 yrs of history and tradion of the HRCC? Did you create hospitals and universities? did you convert the Aztec pagan? Did you write the bible? you better be absolutely sure that your understanding of the church scripture is 100% correct to make such claims. we're playing with chess not checkers. Btw every idle word that comes out of your mouth or text will be libel for judgement. just a friendly warning.
+The Friendly Fascist of course there is authority and succession with every bishop. However, if the Bishop of Rome says that Henry cannot be married to 6 different women and also be the head of any church then you must submit. The Bishop of Rome has the primacy over all other Bishops. Should every bishop or leader of a country start their own church when they disagree with the Pope? Does that really make sense to you?
You will have to argue with St. Irenaeus on this one.
Against Heresies (Book III, Chapter 3) - St. Irenaeus
The following is a very early list of popes written between 175 and 190, not many years after Irenaeus' Roman visit, lists the order from Peter to Eleutherius:
Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority -- that is, the faithful everywhere -- inasmuch as the Apostolic Tradition has been preserved continuously by those who are everywhere.
thiscatholicjourney.com/2009/09/against-heresies-book-iii-chapter-3-st.html
Where does he say that local bishop can have their own independent authority again?
+Romano The Bishop of Rome is indeed first among equals of all bishops. He is not primate of the entire church militant, however.
"Private judgement in gorgeous array'' [Cardinal Manning, convert Archbishop of Westminster commenting on so-called Anglo-Catholicism]. All show but a sad imitation of the genuine thing.
Judgement? Anglicanism has been described as having "All the pageantry, none of the guilt"
So close! But female altar servers in a medieval liturgy??
Thomas Cranmer himself would have have thrown them out of his desecrated sanctuary as an abomination to the Protestantised ceremony he introduced.
Hola. The discussion here in the comments is what I've come to expect, unfortunately. The arrogant Roman Catholics with their misplaced superiority complex claiming that the Anglican Church is inferior to their precious bigoted and prejudiced (anti-gay, anti-women) Roman Catholic Church. The Anglican Church is just as valid as the Roman Catholic Church. The Anglicans have some belief differences -- that's what makes them Anglicans -- but this nonsense about "coming home to the RC Church" is so tiresome. If Roman Catholics were secure with their own beliefs they wouldn't care what any other denomination did or does, including the Anglicans. And I'm an Anglican Atheist (you can think on that for awhile). Muchas gracias for the video.
www.pinkbarrio.com/blog/articles/the-anglican-atheist/
+ThePinkbarrio Personally, as a Catholic, I feel secure with my beliefs, although I am a lot more inclusive than my teachers (It runs in my blood). I believe the problem lies with centuries-old problems that most people probably misunderstand today.
The main point for me is that this is a beautiful liturgy that BOTH Catholics and Protestants seem to be lacking. I wish the liturgy could be brought back to such beauty...
Anglicans clergy do not have apostolic succession and thir sacraments ,according to the Catholic Church, are " absolutely null and utterly void." Yeah, plenty of smells, bells and copes, but they are all invalidly ordained. From an otological perspective, they are laymen dressed up in vestments playing with bread and wine. The sad results of the English trying to be Catholic without the pope.
Disagreement is not bigotry. The fact is that Anglican comprehensiveness is a substantive theological problem for the integrity of Anglicanism from the perspective of either Orthodox or Roman Catholics. By allowing for essentially contradictory beliefs, it fundamentally contradicts the principle of Tradition - not custom - but the handing over of the content of the Gospel within the context of the continuity of eucharistic communities from generation to generation, bound by one lex credendi. This is not a matter of hatred or superiority, it is a matter of being able to reconcile Anglican beliefs with the Tradition (not customary practice or notion, but the living Gospel lived out in the Church's liturgy over the centuries - "the faith once delivered to the saints") received and passed on by the saints of the first millennium, of whom there were many in the British Isles who are rightly glorified in the Orthodox Church, even though their worship was not the Byzantine form. Bigotry or hate would not allow for such differences in practice. One of those saints actually later became Patriarch of Constantinople!
Certainly Orthodox (and Roman Catholics, I am sure) cannot see themselves as superior people, more moral. As an Orthodox Christian I am not about to say who goes to heaven and who doesn't, except to say that the Ikon commonly placed in the center of the church on the Sunday of St. John Klimakos (Byzantine Rite 4th Sunday of Lent) depicts Byzantine monks and bishops falling off the latter of divine ascent. Being "Orthodox" is no guarantee of salvation and being heterodox is not in se damnation. I do not believe Anglicanism is grounded , but that is a matter of disagreement, not a point of hostility or personal insult.
This is bogus, there are female altar servers!
Galations chapter 3 says that gender is not important. Girls may serve in the liturgy. It's realky unfortunate that you think that way, because GOD doesn't.
Because this is not a true mass, invalid mass
Ew, cassock-albs.
Taylor Warren Not in this video, or at any liturgy at St Thomas's, I assure you!
I also prefer lace albs, but that was never the typical practice in the English Church of antiquity.
What is a cassock alb? A white cassock? I believe the pope weares one. I personaly prefer my black cassock.
This is fine as theatre but seems rather boring week after week.
Female altar boys?
Delete.
Unfortunately, the celebrant doesn't know how to incense an altar--and a few other rubrics are skewed, like the elevation of the Sacred Species. If you're doing to do it, do it! See Fortesque and O'Connell for corrections!
I am a Roman Catholic and I don't get it. The Anglican Church does not believe that the Eucharist becomes God Incarnate at the Sacrifice of the Mass, like I and 1.3 billion other people do. In there theological perspective wouldn't kneeling before "bread" and "wine" in adoration be idolatry? These Anglicans should just come home to the Catholic Church. Christ and His Bride, Holy Mother Church is waiting for them and I will be praying for them. God Bless.
+Daniel Jaghab I am a Traditionalist Catholic. However, 1. I agree with you that they should come to the Holy Roman Catholic Church; 2. Some High Church Anglicans actually believe in the transubstantiation though; 3. I even know a few High Church Anglicans who do not believe in Faith Alone and Bible Alone.
I know High Church Anglicans does not equal Anglo-Catholics, but generally they have many things in common. Precisely, my friends are Anglo-Catholics and they entirely do the Tridentine Mass.
So, if Anglicans believe in the Real Presence, do the worship the Eucharist, and believe that it is actually the the Second Person of the Most Blessed Trinity?
+Daniel Jaghab I am a Traditionalist Catholic (SSPX) but do attend Masses of the Personal Ordinariate. And actually, High Church Anglicans and Anglo-Catholics do believe in the real objective holy Presence of Christ (although He is not truly present, since Anglican Orders are "completely null and void"). I have brought over 20 people into the Catholic Church from Anglicanism, but into the SSPX. The Novus Ordo Church doesn't have anything anybody wants, they want the Tridentine Mass, the traditional Sacraments, the heavenly and genuine life of a Catholic.
Anglicans don't believe in Transubstantiation, like Catholics do. We Catholics believe that the bread and wine substantially becomes Jesus' body, blood, soul, and divinity. Anglicans believe that Jesus is present with bread (consubstantiation). Catholics believe there is no bread after the Consecration. Also I am a convert to Catholicism from Greek "Orthodoxy" and I only attend the Traditional Roman Rite of Mass. I love it. But in charity, as my brother in Christ, I must tell you that the SSPX has no canonical standing in the Church and that a Catholic should go to an FSSP, ICKSP, or a diocesan church for the Traditional Roman Rite. Believe me I Love the TRR, I just came back from the ICKSP priory in Chicago because I'm considering a vocation to the lay brotherhood.
The Sarum Usage certainly never had women in albs daring to enter the sanctuary. What a joke. Nothing but invalid play acting.
Can't love it, it's Protestant. This service is invalid if done in the Protestant Church. If it was Catholic, it would be valid. But the female "servers" need to go. In fact, there was a Sarum Vespers in Philadelphia done with Sarum Use in the Catholic Church and was valid. I really loved it!
But if this Sarum "mass" at St. Thomas's Anglican "church" is not in Communion with Rome, it is heretical and schismatic.
Listen to that! If a church doesn't lick Rome's foot, it's full of heretics!! 🤣
@@adamm2693 your funny.