So I have 2 theories on how Big E got the Void Dragon to Mars: 1: The reasonable answer: WARP FUCKERY 2: the fun answer: Big E grabbed a baseball bat and hit the greatest homerun in human history
3: the fun-er answer: Big E didn’t grab just _any_ baseball bat. He *_WARP FUCKERIED_* into Smash Bros, stole the baseball bat from there, and hit the single greatest home-run ever. Of all time. Right into the Martian surface, where he then did a superhero landing, walked up into the Void Dragon’s crater where it was lying there dazed and proceeded to beat it into a pulp like it owed him money.
Damn. 6 days and no comment or reaction from the channel. And you're a member. Man, The Lost Primarch reacts to and/or comments of all of my comments. Even single word comments. Flex.
I like the idea more that Big E fumbled into this working out (kinda) for him. Like Mars was where he could put the shard until he knew what to do with it and then he forgot about it until..."oh, shit..." like 500 years after Mars colonization. That will never be canon, but it's funnier to me and I hate 4d chess planning Big E.
About that it happened with the first imperial daemon he locked it away forgot about it something really fucked happened when the demon that the daemon killed resurrected then they rereleased the daemon just for it disappear again To put it simply thats probably what happened
@@SWProductions100 The 4D chess interpretation just doesn't make sense though, if Big E knew what was going to happen He absolutely would have avoided the HH. It blindsided Him and His character, in its own thoughts, literally talks about the ruination of the dream and His utter despair over what will become of Humanity. The Emperor wasn't that great at Far-seeing and manipulation of the future compared to someone like Eldrad, and even Eldrad can only really alter events to a certain degree. If the Emperor was playing 4D chess He would have just avoided the HH and checkmated Chaos right there, realistically once Humanity escaped the reliance on Warp Travel and ascended to a purely Psychic race under the guidance of people who knew how to teach them, Chaos wouldn't really be able to do much, especially because they wouldn't have any major mortal agents capable of opposing this bastion of order. Like what happened to the Emperor isn't sacrificing a piece to win, it's getting mated then the board falls of the table and neither of you remember the position of the pieces lol.
@@AveSicarius Yeah i always understood it thus: the Emperor _lost_ the Horus Heresy. He is the most powerful man to have ever lived, but he is still a man, and therefore flawed… human. When Erebus tricks Horus in his visions on Davin, by showing him the “possible” future of the Imperium worshipping the Emperor as a god, we the readers know he is showing the actual future in the 41st millenium. This must mean that the Chaos Gods’ plan was for that future to come about, so they can feast on all the various sufferings such a regime would create over 10+ millennia. They would happily sacrifice Horus and the Traitor Legions in fulfilling the plan; they just needed to halt the Emperor’s webway project and take him out of action. Therefore, the HH was actually a win for Chaos. In relation to the Void Dragon thing, I reckon it’s totally plausible that he just stashed it on Mars because that’s what was convenient at the time in the 10th century or whenever it was, and just opportunistically masqueraded as the Omnissiah when the time came to get ships and materiel for the Great Crusade. The idea that he planned it all in advance is ridiculous, considering how many other errors he made, and how often he was blindsided. He is just human, after all.
@@AveSicarius 2 cents on this. For one, maybe he is playing 4d chess, its just that he is playing against 4 veterans of 4d chess, so the odds are still against him. However I like to think its less like chess, where he is trying to execute some perfect plan, and more like, he sees always multiple possibilities. He knows there is nothing certains, that risk is unavoidable, best he do is take the best bets he comes across. There was never a big plan, he is just that good (or rather, perhaps not good enough) at setting up contingencies and improvising. He clearly did see the possibility of something like HH, even before the primarchs where scattered. Now that fucked his plan real good, the rest was a fucking rush. Hell, from his perspective, I think from the age of strife onwards, it was all a rush. Even his intense focus on the webway, when you remember why the age of strife happened to begin with, shows how desperate he was.
The great lie of mars is the idea that mars is red because there’s iron in the sand. The red color is really the blood spilled by 40k fans whenever someone mentions the space wolves.
Big E: "Well it's Wednesday. Time to hijack a hideously evil eldritch entity that exists beyond time and space and build a huge chunk of my empire on it then lie about it. Hey that worked really well! Mebbe I'll do it at least 20 more times."
Great lore: A long and rather realistic history of how a society distorted itself through thousands of years and the many tragedies of the 40k universe, and to top it as the greater tragedy, how the Imperium was forced to rely on them, with even the emperor making a compromise, really demonstrating the horrifying scale and stakes involved. Shit lore: Ackshually, it was just emps being EEEEEEVILL and fucking up again g
There is some lore mentioning that when the Necrons sharded the void dragon, a large chunk of it managed to escape. So it seems like what the Emperor fought and imprisoned are somewhere between a shard and a full C'tan, or at least a heavily weakened C'tan that had lost huge pieces of its power
i always find it kinda hard to believe that he could have beaten and locked away a c'tan shard like i know he is meant to be a powerful demigod but i feel it makes the c'tan look a like bitches if a guy can beat one up
@@garfieldfan4464 then you grossly underestimate the power of big E also we don’t know how he did it, the golden age was a long long time and humanity made some OP stuff back in that era. I can’t stress enough how OP big E used to be back in the day, he’s peak “dad back before you were born lore”
@@garfieldfan4464 The Emperor managed to exterminate a whole world full of Primarch sized Orks (Ullanor) with a single warp blast and the whole fight was already shown in the book Mechanicum
@@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus Nah, the Emperor was stated to be weaker before Molech, and even in His absolute prime as the Living Emperor a large enough C'Tan shard would be a serious problem, that's how powerful the C'Tan are. Plus the Old One's a literal race of Super-Psykers with godlike power got fucked by the C'Tan, as did the Prime Aeldari, who's less distinguished descendents like Eldrad could probably throw Magnus around the room if they weren't restricted by the whole Slaanesh thing. The C'Tan are the closest thing the setting has to true God's, they were born at the start of the Universe and can manipulate reality like nothing else we've seen in the setting outside of Necron Technology (which is seemingly based on their abilities). Given that this occured pre-Fall the Emperor likely had help from some outside source, probably the Aeldari as they constantly searched for the C'Tan and Necron's and had observed the Earth beforehand. Either that or it happened much later, because people think this happened during the Dark Ages as in medieval times given the images shown, perhaps during the DAoT or the Fall/Old Night where Big E had super tech and the images shown are either a lie or an interpretation in the mind of a mad star god. That's if you buy the whole "the Emperor is an Anatolian Caveman" story, I like the idea that it's as the Eldar say, the Emperor is a DAoT weapon unleashed on the Galaxy, either He was an artificial Perpetual, which would make sense given He used Himself as the basis for the Primarch's who were also attempts at artificial Perpetuals, or He was heavily modified. You significantly underestimate the power of the C'Tan, the Old One's were a race of Emperor like Psykers, and they got eaten by the ravenous Star God's.
Some how the Emperor: 1. Defeated a, mostly complete, C'tan. Okay they're weak against warp, that tracks. 2. Took it from Terra to Mars. Probably Webway shenanigans. Fine. 3. Turned it "inside out" creating an impossible space, that is also its prison. I have no words.
This proves one thing I think we all know: The Emperor is a notable, semi-immortal, undying prick at the center of the cluster of barely organized pinpricks that is the Imperium
And the most weird thing about this is the fact BigE despite being a prick isn't really selfish in his intentions as he clearly doesn't desire unlimited power. Given the fact he outright rejects God hood and unlimited power as soon as he learned humanity would be obliterated if he decided to go through with it. Which kinda puts BigE in a weird spot as his clearly a dick but at the same time he also isn't a lier when he sais his genuinely doing it for humanity. He even admitted he was wrong in the End of the Death, and didn't want to bullshit himself in to think he wasn't wrong he admitted it was all on him and didn't try to put the blame on the traitors (accept for Magnus for obvious reasons) as he was willing to take responsible for his fuck ups and if he can hopefully fix his mistake and make things right or die trying. The Emperor didn't need to go on the Throne, hack he could have died there and there and he could have either become a God or just reincarnate somewhere else in the galaxy likely slightly more powerfull due to the amount of warp energy he would consume like when you really examin the Emperor's options he legit had nothing to lose and everything to gain all he really had to do was sell out Humanity if he was really that power hungry and could have obliterated chaos and raind as the new undisputed God of the Warp for a mother 60 million years but didn't as you guessed it him being God he would destroy the Human race. So it's clear BigE believes his doing the right thing and believes all the pain and suffering his created would be worth it in the End even if it means he has to suffer and bleed for 10 thousand years if it helps humanity out in the End. The best way to explain BigEs morality is that his lawfully neutral, in the sense he doesn't care what he has to do of it means humanity comes out on top in the End, he doesn't really care about himself because in his mind no sacrifice is to small and if he has to end up in the same meat grinder he created he would with out hesitation. He sees the primachs and the mechenicus as tools which is fucked up but he also sees himself the same exact way. It doesn't mean his good his a massively dick and narrative wise that what makes the setting prettier great and he doesn't have to be honestly. But I'm just glad he isn't a cliche "Alkshuly his secretly Evil your so stupid for thinking other wise, hurr durr XD" and I'm just glad it isn't black and White as what made 40k good is the fact everybody in the setting genuinely believes there on the right and doing the right thing. From the most dickish of traitor primachs to even BigE himself and you can both critic that notion and really question them well at the same time also see eye to eye with them and see where there coming. And when you really think about it's really ironic that BigE is the most un selfish dare I see even selflis 40k character who's motivations are pretty benevolent as he genuinely believes his doing the right thing also happens to be the most dickish, the most cruel and all around prick character in the setting to bring those motivations in to full fruishin. I'm not meat riding him as I don't really like the Emperor at all but i just wanted to bring this up as I find it intristing.
I like the idea but just don’t like the Big E being connected to every cool thing humanity has in 40k would be cool to see a dead human civilization that was the backup and they died for some reason or another that was something the mechanicus survived due to who they are as a society. Also like the idea the Big E never meant for the Mechanicus to turn out the way they did was just a byproduct and he went with it he just wanted to increase the technological prowess is his empire but wasn’t fully sure on what would happen with Plan A
"Everything the Emperor has ever told us is a lie!" "A heavy accusation, Tech-Adept. How did you come to this conclusion?" "A xeno said so." "..." *BLAM*
Yeah, it is 100% just pulling straight from Dune for the Bene Gesserit seeding the religion and prophecies of the coming on Mua'adib on Arrakis...with the Mechanicum of Mars being seeded more slowly on Mars...why? I dunno, the Emperor is F#$%ing weird like that, too long term and weird, and no real explanation. No seriously, we are never gonna find out the real plan for Big E for all these threads, because even GW doesn't know.
@@miketogwell1000 what? nooo... 40K is completely original! Just look at the Adeptus Arbi... The Astra Mili... the Space Mari... Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clou... sseau. Huh
I dunno, man. I can't help but think that exposing the Emperor's multi-millennia scheme to contrive the Mechanicus only reinforces his claim to being the Omnisiah. It's not so much "The Great Lie of Mars" than it is "The Missing Context of Mars"
Yeah, they're already incredibly fanatic in their beliefs. If anything they'd probably be glad to know they're all part of the Emperor's plan. They exist with a purpose, that way.
In my mind the Emperor didnt do this KNOWING he would found a religion. Because future sight doesnt need to be just visions. It can also be instinctual tugs of do this or avoid that ... a very powerful sixth sense of sorts functioning on a crosstemporal context versus like your inbuilt heuiristics raising your hair and stopping your breath at different things. This sixth sense could ofcourse be the GOD part of the Emperor who once exists should be always have existed (like Slaanesh) reaching out and influencing the mortal Emperor
Nicely put. Say, how do you think Khorne and Tzeench came to be, accounting for the Dark King new lore, and species-wide ascension/apotheosis being each psychically active species' destiny, as revealed by Actae? We're the First Three born differently from Slaanesh? In the new framework, it's rather unlikely. But if they were formed in a similar fashion, what species made that possible? Were the cataclysms of their actualizations so catastrophic that they'd been rewritten to never have existed?..
@@HTWW I love this. What species that retroactively created the other 3 chaos gods from the beginning of time existed before being destroyed by their creation? Do they even exist yet? Maybe one is the eventual destruction of a race that is around now that just has not happened yet.
It doesn't really work like that, the Chaos God's have always existed within the Warp because time does not exist there, time however does exist in the Materium and the Chaos God's don't just magically spring into existence during the War in Heaven because of the Fall of the Aeldari and other events. The flow of time in the Materium is a sort of self-contained thing, and the Chaos God's by reaching in seem to have almost been fixed by this. Which is why they are so invested in the Galaxy right now (I also really dislike the multidimensional beings explanation because it doesn't really make sense, but either way the current Chaos God's have an investment because they are localized to the Galaxy in some way), if they had the ability to act throughout Space-Time current 40k wouldn't exist given that they could just make sure a bunch of events turned in their favour, or avoid certain outcomes by knowing the future. The Emperor doesn't just get magic future visions from His future self, in fact His future sight is vague and tangled compared to the Aeldari Farseers, especially Eldrad. Though, the Chaos God's aren't really sentient it seems, not in the same way as Materium lifeforms or AI, more like extradimensional parasites mimicking their prey given how they behave, so maybe they can't influence Space-Time retroactively because their focus and intelligence is too limited.
@@HTWW They've found other elements of Chaos influenced races or ones that fell to depravity within 40k. Be'lakor is a Daemon Prince ascended from some other race, and Drach'nyen was also brought into existence by the fall of other Empires. It's likely that they succumbed to something like the Aeldari, a psychically active race that ended up birthing a Chaos Entity through their emotional excess. It's just that nobody was as populous or psychically active as the Aeldari, hence Slaanesh burst out as a Galaxy shaking monstrosity alongside the psychic death scream of trillions of Aeldari who were consumed instantly. The Chaos God's were super weak before the Fall because they just didn't have the psychic fuel that the Birth of Slaanesh gave them, it's likely that it requires a psychically active race with strong souls in the Warp to birth or influence the Warp like that. Also the War In Heaven created the foundation of Chaos, the disrupted and turbulent Warp gave birth to things like the Enslavers based on Materium events too, the scale was just different until Slaanesh.
Fun fact: Where as other c’tan were turned into shards, the void dragon wasn’t, only being wounded slightly causing a few shards to be made, meaning the void dragon is almost at full power, showing why he is so different, as he is a c’tan in its near perfect state
This version of the Void Dragon sounds like it would be classified as both a Thaumiel and an Apollyon object by the SCP Foundation. An entity that acts as a prison, especially for itself, and is also world ending in power
Seeding a religion on a desert planet for generations just for the supposed "Messiah" to show up and lead them to the stars... this sounds oddly familiar.
Mechanicum was such a great book. I really liked thelat part of the plot was the "Chosen" Adept and her team was building either the prototype to or the Golden Throne itself. Her Skitari protector Rho-Mu was really interesting too.
I feel like that detail regarding the explorers that were more philosophical surviving longer is reference to "The Call of Cthulhu." In the book there's a bit where a character is interviewing a bunch of people who had a period of strange dreams; the normal laymans couldn't describe the dreams due to the dream being unclear for them. On the other hand, artists, scientists, or any persons whose thinking is abstract where able to (IIRC) describe that the dream was them exploring the city of R'lyeh.
I think its an interesting point someone brought up was the emperor didnt invision the exact permutation of the Cult Mechanicum as it ended up, but he knew he needed a caste of engineers and technicians to shepard humanities technology into the future as well as many other tools he'd need in his plan to ensure humanities survival/dom8nance after the age of strife so he set a bunch of plans in motion to try and catch up to once the unification wars culminated. So when he shows up to Mars he doesnt proclaim himself the omnissiah cause he doesnt know 100% what he's walking into. He just kinda runs with it for expediency since this is the form his plans took even if the cult wasnt the ideal form
I remember in some older necron codex a bunch of necrons pulled up on mars, got bodied presumably trying to reach the noctilith labyrinth and just fucked off without a trace
Basically, the tesseract room gives people inside an omnipresent perspective, or the ability to see every perspective at the same time. That's probably the simplest way to describe what it does.
Mechanicum is one of the best HH books. Not just the dragon revalation. The akashic reader is an insane concept, the kaban machine is wild, and of course there's my queen koriel zeth.
I don't know if I believe that the Emperor knew how everything would turn out when he first sealed the Void Dragon, it seems a bit far fetched even for someone like him. But he absolutely did allow events to progress the way they did later even though he could have stopped it. And he took advantage of the situation as much as possible.
2:37 just imagine that you are that Iron Warrior. Your fighting your hated enemy the Imperial Fists, then suddenly a servo skull with a giant flaming beard and two bushy eyebrows is just flying at your face screaming something about how much he hates Magnus the Red.
On the topic of big E not being able to bounce back from this coming out: he did wipe teo entire legions of angels from existence. I feel like it would indeed deal a massive blow to the Imperium, but I feel like he could do some serious damage control. On the other hand, that damage control would probably require the erasement of AdMech's existence, and therefore all of the Imperium's military production. Either way, the Emperor would be pretty fucked.
Is it ever mentioned that Big E knew what was going to come of this? What if he just placed the Void Dragon there because "this should be far enough away to not cause problems". Fast forward to 30k. "Oh yeah, that's where i put that dragon."
better description for the room: get a mirror get a second mirror put them next to each other you see an infinite reflection now imagine that but all the walls, ceiling, and floor for a room now imagine the images are rotating, flickering, shimmering, etc but the surfaces are stationary without actually having a surface. now imagine that sometimes you can transition to some of the reflections.
I think the Emperor could not have built his Empire without the Mechanicum, which is why he did things this way. But I think his choice to ban the use of "xenos tech" and so forth being such a great irony and hypocrisy that it almost falls over itself like a tower made of sand.
It could be a portion of the Void Dragon that learned empathy while shattering at the hands of the race he tried to swallow...or VD is trying to use Humans to beat back the Necrons and take dominance of the Universe once again
i must say.... It was fucking cooool! I love when they found something so impossible but at same time so feasible. They were practically experimenting all the dimension at the same time with some religious and delicious mambo jambo on top.
The coolest concept of the mechanicum is the te h priest's who have the entire planets converted into living machines that they are linked to. Can see and feel anything anywhere at anytime on a planet.
Ya know speaking of the Dragon of Mars I think it says a lot that apparently the Emperor decided to unleash it or at least a fragment of its power during the Rangdan Xenocides
The Void Dragon is folded in on itself to contain it. The impossible room is skin of the Dragon turned inside out with the rest of the Dragon facing into unreality to keep it contained.
Let me get this straight? Long ago the God Emperor fought a dragon atop Mount Anthor and brought it back to Mars to keep as a pet. Or was it that he brought it back to Whiterun?
I think you nailed it when you called them "eldritch" The C'tan are basically lovecraftian in theme, existing as part of reality but being so alien and advanced in contrast to what we thinking of as living things as to break our fragile minds. The very dreams of which seeping into the minds of the martian people and twisting them into what we see today. Very much like great Cthulhu in H.P. Lovecraft's own works. The Void dragon is the material embodiment of technological progress. by placing it on Mars but then prohibiting paradigm shifts technologically; Big E made a technological safety net for humanity. No matter what happens a baseline level of technological sophistication would be maintained. And this makes sense when you realize that the Emperor witnessed several technological periods of regression in human history. The Bronze age collapse, the Burning of Alexandria, the European Dark ages, The age of strife, and now the modern time period. So he establishes this safety net to enure humanity isn't utterly defenseless in the face of the uncaring universe. Its a fucked up solution. But with the twin options of "Risk literally killing technological progress" or "utilize the Shard for your own ends in a way that contains it." You can see why he might pick the latter.
Imagine being that dedicated to the belief in 3 dimensional space, in a universe with Warp travel (where the warp is a separate but breaching dimension where physics and space is odd).
I like to think that the void dragon created humanity after being imprisoned on earth hoping to use them as a replacement slave race after the necrons broke free, and he gave a few of them imortality just to spite the necrons
Great lore: A long and rather realistic history of how a society distorted itself through thousands of years and the many tragedies of the 40k universe, and to top it as the greater tragedy, how the Imperium was forced to rely on them, with even the emperor making a compromise, really demonstrating the horrifying scale and stakes involved. Shit lore: Ackshually, it was just emps being EEEEEEVILL and fucking up again g
Great lore: A long and rather realistic history of how a society distorted itself through thousands of years and the many tragedies of the 40k universe, and to top it as the greater tragedy, how the Imperium was forced to rely on them, with even the emperor making a compromise, really demonstrating the horrifying scale and stakes involved. Shit lore: Ackshually, it was just emps being EEEEEEVILL and fucking up again g
So there is an obscure reference to the dragon on mars in I “think “ a chaos codex. Abandon has a witch show him the secret of Mars. We aren’t told what he sees but the witch feels out because Abadon starts laughing.
1D: point
2D: square
3D: cube
4D: tesseract
A point is 0D. A line is 1D.
Came to say this, ignore the semantic ass saying 1D is a line an not a point
Was just about to say that :D
Which funnily enough with that description, a form of necron containment device is called the Tesseract Labyrinth
4D is an infinity stone?
@@Adorni no.
So I have 2 theories on how Big E got the Void Dragon to Mars:
1: The reasonable answer: WARP FUCKERY
2: the fun answer: Big E grabbed a baseball bat and hit the greatest homerun in human history
This is hilarious
3: the fun-er answer: Big E didn’t grab just _any_ baseball bat. He *_WARP FUCKERIED_* into Smash Bros, stole the baseball bat from there, and hit the single greatest home-run ever. Of all time. Right into the Martian surface, where he then did a superhero landing, walked up into the Void Dragon’s crater where it was lying there dazed and proceeded to beat it into a pulp like it owed him money.
@@goingblargh
Someone: You cant just yeet a space dragon into the surface of mars
Big E: 😂😂😂 *YEET*
Damn. 6 days and no comment or reaction from the channel. And you're a member. Man, The Lost Primarch reacts to and/or comments of all of my comments. Even single word comments. Flex.
3. he used a spray bottle whilst periodically say "go on git"
As TTS Big E once said
"THINGS ARE GOING JUST. AS. PLANNED."
and then EVERYTHING GOES TO *SHIT*
@@heartlessnobody1143 Or does it? Seems too perfect considering how powerful Big E is. Dude has terrible timing for a precog.
I like the idea more that Big E fumbled into this working out (kinda) for him. Like Mars was where he could put the shard until he knew what to do with it and then he forgot about it until..."oh, shit..." like 500 years after Mars colonization.
That will never be canon, but it's funnier to me and I hate 4d chess planning Big E.
About that it happened with the first imperial daemon he locked it away forgot about it something really fucked happened when the demon that the daemon killed resurrected then they rereleased the daemon just for it disappear again
To put it simply thats probably what happened
The 4D chess Emperor is definitely more intimidating, but it's also fun to imagine how much of the Emperors plans was glue and duck tape.
@@SWProductions100
The 4D chess interpretation just doesn't make sense though, if Big E knew what was going to happen He absolutely would have avoided the HH. It blindsided Him and His character, in its own thoughts, literally talks about the ruination of the dream and His utter despair over what will become of Humanity.
The Emperor wasn't that great at Far-seeing and manipulation of the future compared to someone like Eldrad, and even Eldrad can only really alter events to a certain degree.
If the Emperor was playing 4D chess He would have just avoided the HH and checkmated Chaos right there, realistically once Humanity escaped the reliance on Warp Travel and ascended to a purely Psychic race under the guidance of people who knew how to teach them, Chaos wouldn't really be able to do much, especially because they wouldn't have any major mortal agents capable of opposing this bastion of order.
Like what happened to the Emperor isn't sacrificing a piece to win, it's getting mated then the board falls of the table and neither of you remember the position of the pieces lol.
@@AveSicarius Yeah i always understood it thus: the Emperor _lost_ the Horus Heresy. He is the most powerful man to have ever lived, but he is still a man, and therefore flawed… human.
When Erebus tricks Horus in his visions on Davin, by showing him the “possible” future of the Imperium worshipping the Emperor as a god, we the readers know he is showing the actual future in the 41st millenium. This must mean that the Chaos Gods’ plan was for that future to come about, so they can feast on all the various sufferings such a regime would create over 10+ millennia. They would happily sacrifice Horus and the Traitor Legions in fulfilling the plan; they just needed to halt the Emperor’s webway project and take him out of action.
Therefore, the HH was actually a win for Chaos.
In relation to the Void Dragon thing, I reckon it’s totally plausible that he just stashed it on Mars because that’s what was convenient at the time in the 10th century or whenever it was, and just opportunistically masqueraded as the Omnissiah when the time came to get ships and materiel for the Great Crusade. The idea that he planned it all in advance is ridiculous, considering how many other errors he made, and how often he was blindsided. He is just human, after all.
@@AveSicarius 2 cents on this. For one, maybe he is playing 4d chess, its just that he is playing against 4 veterans of 4d chess, so the odds are still against him. However I like to think its less like chess, where he is trying to execute some perfect plan, and more like, he sees always multiple possibilities. He knows there is nothing certains, that risk is unavoidable, best he do is take the best bets he comes across. There was never a big plan, he is just that good (or rather, perhaps not good enough) at setting up contingencies and improvising. He clearly did see the possibility of something like HH, even before the primarchs where scattered. Now that fucked his plan real good, the rest was a fucking rush. Hell, from his perspective, I think from the age of strife onwards, it was all a rush. Even his intense focus on the webway, when you remember why the age of strife happened to begin with, shows how desperate he was.
The great lie of mars is the idea that mars is red because there’s iron in the sand. The red color is really the blood spilled by 40k fans whenever someone mentions the space wolves.
Blood has iron in it
TTS Magnus: "SPACE WOLVES?!! AAAAAA-"
WHO DARES MENTION THE FURRIES OF FENRIS!?
Big E: "Well it's Wednesday. Time to hijack a hideously evil eldritch entity that exists beyond time and space and build a huge chunk of my empire on it then lie about it. Hey that worked really well! Mebbe I'll do it at least 20 more times."
Great lore: A long and rather realistic history of how a society
distorted itself through thousands of years and the many tragedies of the 40k universe, and to top it as the
greater tragedy, how the
Imperium was forced to rely on them, with even the emperor
making a compromise, really demonstrating the horrifying scale and stakes involved.
Shit lore: Ackshually, it was just emps being EEEEEEVILL and
fucking up again g
@@CopeSeethorntin He's not evil:D That's just poor Alpha Primus in there doing his best. And he's just a giant genius time-traveling little guy...
*18
Ha! Some Warp shenanigans
There is some lore mentioning that when the Necrons sharded the void dragon, a large chunk of it managed to escape. So it seems like what the Emperor fought and imprisoned are somewhere between a shard and a full C'tan, or at least a heavily weakened C'tan that had lost huge pieces of its power
A C'Tan chunk, if you will
i always find it kinda hard to believe that he could have beaten and locked away a c'tan shard like i know he is meant to be a powerful demigod but i feel it makes the c'tan look a like bitches if a guy can beat one up
@@garfieldfan4464 then you grossly underestimate the power of big E also we don’t know how he did it, the golden age was a long long time and humanity made some OP stuff back in that era. I can’t stress enough how OP big E used to be back in the day, he’s peak “dad back before you were born lore”
@@garfieldfan4464 The Emperor managed to exterminate a whole world full of Primarch sized Orks (Ullanor) with a single warp blast and the whole fight was already shown in the book Mechanicum
@@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus
Nah, the Emperor was stated to be weaker before Molech, and even in His absolute prime as the Living Emperor a large enough C'Tan shard would be a serious problem, that's how powerful the C'Tan are.
Plus the Old One's a literal race of Super-Psykers with godlike power got fucked by the C'Tan, as did the Prime Aeldari, who's less distinguished descendents like Eldrad could probably throw Magnus around the room if they weren't restricted by the whole Slaanesh thing. The C'Tan are the closest thing the setting has to true God's, they were born at the start of the Universe and can manipulate reality like nothing else we've seen in the setting outside of Necron Technology (which is seemingly based on their abilities).
Given that this occured pre-Fall the Emperor likely had help from some outside source, probably the Aeldari as they constantly searched for the C'Tan and Necron's and had observed the Earth beforehand. Either that or it happened much later, because people think this happened during the Dark Ages as in medieval times given the images shown, perhaps during the DAoT or the Fall/Old Night where Big E had super tech and the images shown are either a lie or an interpretation in the mind of a mad star god.
That's if you buy the whole "the Emperor is an Anatolian Caveman" story, I like the idea that it's as the Eldar say, the Emperor is a DAoT weapon unleashed on the Galaxy, either He was an artificial Perpetual, which would make sense given He used Himself as the basis for the Primarch's who were also attempts at artificial Perpetuals, or He was heavily modified.
You significantly underestimate the power of the C'Tan, the Old One's were a race of Emperor like Psykers, and they got eaten by the ravenous Star God's.
Some how the Emperor:
1. Defeated a, mostly complete, C'tan. Okay they're weak against warp, that tracks.
2. Took it from Terra to Mars. Probably Webway shenanigans. Fine.
3. Turned it "inside out" creating an impossible space, that is also its prison. I have no words.
He's just that guy yk. When you have it like the emperor logic is not a constraint of yours.
This proves one thing I think we all know: The Emperor is a notable, semi-immortal, undying prick at the center of the cluster of barely organized pinpricks that is the Imperium
And every part of the imperium is literally functioning off the Emperor's last worded instructions. That shit is over 10,000 years old
And the most weird thing about this is the fact BigE despite being a prick isn't really selfish in his intentions as he clearly doesn't desire unlimited power. Given the fact he outright rejects God hood and unlimited power as soon as he learned humanity would be obliterated if he decided to go through with it. Which kinda puts BigE in a weird spot as his clearly a dick but at the same time he also isn't a lier when he sais his genuinely doing it for humanity.
He even admitted he was wrong in the End of the Death, and didn't want to bullshit himself in to think he wasn't wrong he admitted it was all on him and didn't try to put the blame on the traitors (accept for Magnus for obvious reasons) as he was willing to take responsible for his fuck ups and if he can hopefully fix his mistake and make things right or die trying.
The Emperor didn't need to go on the Throne, hack he could have died there and there and he could have either become a God or just reincarnate somewhere else in the galaxy likely slightly more powerfull due to the amount of warp energy he would consume like when you really examin the Emperor's options he legit had nothing to lose and everything to gain all he really had to do was sell out Humanity if he was really that power hungry and could have obliterated chaos and raind as the new undisputed God of the Warp for a mother 60 million years but didn't as you guessed it him being God he would destroy the Human race. So it's clear BigE believes his doing the right thing and believes all the pain and suffering his created would be worth it in the End even if it means he has to suffer and bleed for 10 thousand years if it helps humanity out in the End.
The best way to explain BigEs morality is that his lawfully neutral, in the sense he doesn't care what he has to do of it means humanity comes out on top in the End, he doesn't really care about himself because in his mind no sacrifice is to small and if he has to end up in the same meat grinder he created he would with out hesitation. He sees the primachs and the mechenicus as tools which is fucked up but he also sees himself the same exact way.
It doesn't mean his good his a massively dick and narrative wise that what makes the setting prettier great and he doesn't have to be honestly. But I'm just glad he isn't a cliche "Alkshuly his secretly Evil your so stupid for thinking other wise, hurr durr XD" and I'm just glad it isn't black and White as what made 40k good is the fact everybody in the setting genuinely believes there on the right and doing the right thing. From the most dickish of traitor primachs to even BigE himself and you can both critic that notion and really question them well at the same time also see eye to eye with them and see where there coming.
And when you really think about it's really ironic that BigE is the most un selfish dare I see even selflis 40k character who's motivations are pretty benevolent as he genuinely believes his doing the right thing also happens to be the most dickish, the most cruel and all around prick character in the setting to bring those motivations in to full fruishin.
I'm not meat riding him as I don't really like the Emperor at all but i just wanted to bring this up as I find it intristing.
If you've played Doom, it seems like, the emperor is what father was afraid Davoth would become@@CopeSeethorntin
I LOVE KEYS
We all do
Jingley
Jangly
Shiney!
So shiney
This stuff is the reason why my headcannon is that big E sent out what would become The Leagues of Votann as a backup strategy.
I like the idea but just don’t like the Big E being connected to every cool thing humanity has in 40k would be cool to see a dead human civilization that was the backup and they died for some reason or another that was something the mechanicus survived due to who they are as a society. Also like the idea the Big E never meant for the Mechanicus to turn out the way they did was just a byproduct and he went with it he just wanted to increase the technological prowess is his empire but wasn’t fully sure on what would happen with Plan A
they are from the dark age and earlier, so that would be while emps was hiding from humanity at large.
"Everything the Emperor has ever told us is a lie!"
"A heavy accusation, Tech-Adept. How did you come to this conclusion?"
"A xeno said so."
"..." *BLAM*
So basically the Emperor pulled a Lisan Al Gaib move like the Bene Gesserit.
40k is Duneship troopers. Just come to terms with that.
Totally, nothing in 40k is original.
Mostly I play a game seeing if I can recognise what (I shall charitably call) the inspiration was
Yeah, it is 100% just pulling straight from Dune for the Bene Gesserit seeding the religion and prophecies of the coming on Mua'adib on Arrakis...with the Mechanicum of Mars being seeded more slowly on Mars...why? I dunno, the Emperor is F#$%ing weird like that, too long term and weird, and no real explanation. No seriously, we are never gonna find out the real plan for Big E for all these threads, because even GW doesn't know.
@@miketogwell1000 what? nooo... 40K is completely original! Just look at the Adeptus Arbi... The Astra Mili... the Space Mari... Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clou... sseau. Huh
NERD!!!
I dunno, man. I can't help but think that exposing the Emperor's multi-millennia scheme to contrive the Mechanicus only reinforces his claim to being the Omnisiah. It's not so much "The Great Lie of Mars" than it is "The Missing Context of Mars"
Yeah, it makes more sense that way.
Yeah, they're already incredibly fanatic in their beliefs. If anything they'd probably be glad to know they're all part of the Emperor's plan. They exist with a purpose, that way.
I view it as less of a lie and more of an “omission of information until they were ready.” Thing.
Necrons looking at mars like: “hey guys, you do know there’s an evil god after your souls under the crust right?”
In my mind the Emperor didnt do this KNOWING he would found a religion. Because future sight doesnt need to be just visions. It can also be instinctual tugs of do this or avoid that ... a very powerful sixth sense of sorts functioning on a crosstemporal context versus like your inbuilt heuiristics raising your hair and stopping your breath at different things.
This sixth sense could ofcourse be the GOD part of the Emperor who once exists should be always have existed (like Slaanesh) reaching out and influencing the mortal Emperor
Nicely put.
Say, how do you think Khorne and Tzeench came to be, accounting for the Dark King new lore, and species-wide ascension/apotheosis being each psychically active species' destiny, as revealed by Actae?
We're the First Three born differently from Slaanesh? In the new framework, it's rather unlikely. But if they were formed in a similar fashion, what species made that possible? Were the cataclysms of their actualizations so catastrophic that they'd been rewritten to never have existed?..
@@HTWW
I love this. What species that retroactively created the other 3 chaos gods from the beginning of time existed before being destroyed by their creation? Do they even exist yet? Maybe one is the eventual destruction of a race that is around now that just has not happened yet.
It doesn't really work like that, the Chaos God's have always existed within the Warp because time does not exist there, time however does exist in the Materium and the Chaos God's don't just magically spring into existence during the War in Heaven because of the Fall of the Aeldari and other events. The flow of time in the Materium is a sort of self-contained thing, and the Chaos God's by reaching in seem to have almost been fixed by this. Which is why they are so invested in the Galaxy right now (I also really dislike the multidimensional beings explanation because it doesn't really make sense, but either way the current Chaos God's have an investment because they are localized to the Galaxy in some way), if they had the ability to act throughout Space-Time current 40k wouldn't exist given that they could just make sure a bunch of events turned in their favour, or avoid certain outcomes by knowing the future.
The Emperor doesn't just get magic future visions from His future self, in fact His future sight is vague and tangled compared to the Aeldari Farseers, especially Eldrad.
Though, the Chaos God's aren't really sentient it seems, not in the same way as Materium lifeforms or AI, more like extradimensional parasites mimicking their prey given how they behave, so maybe they can't influence Space-Time retroactively because their focus and intelligence is too limited.
@@HTWW
They've found other elements of Chaos influenced races or ones that fell to depravity within 40k. Be'lakor is a Daemon Prince ascended from some other race, and Drach'nyen was also brought into existence by the fall of other Empires.
It's likely that they succumbed to something like the Aeldari, a psychically active race that ended up birthing a Chaos Entity through their emotional excess. It's just that nobody was as populous or psychically active as the Aeldari, hence Slaanesh burst out as a Galaxy shaking monstrosity alongside the psychic death scream of trillions of Aeldari who were consumed instantly.
The Chaos God's were super weak before the Fall because they just didn't have the psychic fuel that the Birth of Slaanesh gave them, it's likely that it requires a psychically active race with strong souls in the Warp to birth or influence the Warp like that.
Also the War In Heaven created the foundation of Chaos, the disrupted and turbulent Warp gave birth to things like the Enslavers based on Materium events too, the scale was just different until Slaanesh.
@@AveSicarius Do you have any evidence that time doesn't exist in the warp?
Fun fact:
Where as other c’tan were turned into shards, the void dragon wasn’t, only being wounded slightly causing a few shards to be made, meaning the void dragon is almost at full power, showing why he is so different, as he is a c’tan in its near perfect state
The second half of the book Mechanicum felt like a fever dream.
My second request for a Red Scorpions video has been submitted via this comment.
This version of the Void Dragon sounds like it would be classified as both a Thaumiel and an Apollyon object by the SCP Foundation. An entity that acts as a prison, especially for itself, and is also world ending in power
"God may judge you but his sins outnumber your own"
Dayum
Seeding a religion on a desert planet for generations just for the supposed "Messiah" to show up and lead them to the stars... this sounds oddly familiar.
HMMMMMM?
HESUS!?!??!?!?!?!!???????????
Lisan al gaib
MAHDI!!!! @@dustinhaas8538
@@dustinhaas8538 LISAN AL GAIB!!!
Mechanicum was such a great book. I really liked thelat part of the plot was the "Chosen" Adept and her team was building either the prototype to or the Golden Throne itself. Her Skitari protector Rho-Mu was really interesting too.
8:22 A four-dimensional equivalent to a three-dimensional cube is called a hypercube. No joke.
Also known as a tesseract
Hypercube is a general term for an n-dimensional cube analog. 4-d hypercubes have a specific name, a tesseract.
I feel like that detail regarding the explorers that were more philosophical surviving longer is reference to "The Call of Cthulhu."
In the book there's a bit where a character is interviewing a bunch of people who had a period of strange dreams; the normal laymans couldn't describe the dreams due to the dream being unclear for them. On the other hand, artists, scientists, or any persons whose thinking is abstract where able to (IIRC) describe that the dream was them exploring the city of R'lyeh.
IM AN EASILY DISTRACTED BABY WHEN IT COMES TO JINGLING KEY LORE 🔥🔥🔥
I think its an interesting point someone brought up was the emperor didnt invision the exact permutation of the Cult Mechanicum as it ended up, but he knew he needed a caste of engineers and technicians to shepard humanities technology into the future as well as many other tools he'd need in his plan to ensure humanities survival/dom8nance after the age of strife so he set a bunch of plans in motion to try and catch up to once the unification wars culminated.
So when he shows up to Mars he doesnt proclaim himself the omnissiah cause he doesnt know 100% what he's walking into. He just kinda runs with it for expediency since this is the form his plans took even if the cult wasnt the ideal form
In my headcannon Mars Void Dragon isn't a mere shard but rather the badly damaged but still living core of its being.
Stuck in an impossible room with impossible dimensions? Yeah, been there done that.
Fever dreams are great fun.
8 hits of Acid is wild
"So technically the Emperor is the omnisiah"
-Toaster boy with the inquisition listening in.
I remember in some older necron codex a bunch of necrons pulled up on mars, got bodied presumably trying to reach the noctilith labyrinth and just fucked off without a trace
The Great Lie of Mars:
“GET NECRONED!!!” -The Emperor of Mankind
The emperor turned the void dragon inside out and used it to furnish a room.
Basically, the tesseract room gives people inside an omnipresent perspective, or the ability to see every perspective at the same time.
That's probably the simplest way to describe what it does.
"2 parts crazy, 1 part person"
Met a few of those
"The fundamental core of their entire belief system is, kind of, a lie."
Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?
A 4D Cube is called a Tessaract.
And fun fact a Tessaract Vault is just that.. A 4D Room made to house C'Tans.
The Great Lie of Mars is quite simple. It is the fallacy that Mars Bars are superior to Snickers.
its not just in that book, the Scaevola ending of the Mechanicus game also mentions it.
Mechanicum is one of the best HH books. Not just the dragon revalation. The akashic reader is an insane concept, the kaban machine is wild, and of course there's my queen koriel zeth.
Lorgar after hearing the emperor set the scene for him to be viewed as a god: 😑😑😑😑😑😑🗿😑😑😑😑🫥🫠
I don't know if I believe that the Emperor knew how everything would turn out when he first sealed the Void Dragon, it seems a bit far fetched even for someone like him. But he absolutely did allow events to progress the way they did later even though he could have stopped it. And he took advantage of the situation as much as possible.
The room sounds like the author was trying to do a Lovecraftian style description of something beyond human comprehension
Leto II called; he wants his plotline back.
2:37 just imagine that you are that Iron Warrior. Your fighting your hated enemy the Imperial Fists, then suddenly a servo skull with a giant flaming beard and two bushy eyebrows is just flying at your face screaming something about how much he hates Magnus the Red.
9:57 haha so physicists when the Ultraviolet castrophy happened
Or when you study quantum physics
8:10 tesseract is the word your looking for
On the topic of big E not being able to bounce back from this coming out: he did wipe teo entire legions of angels from existence. I feel like it would indeed deal a massive blow to the Imperium, but I feel like he could do some serious damage control. On the other hand, that damage control would probably require the erasement of AdMech's existence, and therefore all of the Imperium's military production. Either way, the Emperor would be pretty fucked.
Is it ever mentioned that Big E knew what was going to come of this? What if he just placed the Void Dragon there because "this should be far enough away to not cause problems". Fast forward to 30k. "Oh yeah, that's where i put that dragon."
Great video! I loved the part where you dangled the keys! I’m gonna try that on my friends at daycare (my LGS)!
better description for the room:
get a mirror
get a second mirror
put them next to each other
you see an infinite reflection
now imagine that but all the walls, ceiling, and floor for a room
now imagine the images are rotating, flickering, shimmering, etc but the surfaces are stationary without actually having a surface.
now imagine that sometimes you can transition to some of the reflections.
It’s funny, I knew all these facts independently, but I didn’t consider the greater implications until this video.
my desert... my arrakis... my dune
“Destroyed everything you knew scientifically” my first day in quantum mechanics…
I think the Emperor could not have built his Empire without the Mechanicum, which is why he did things this way.
But I think his choice to ban the use of "xenos tech" and so forth being such a great irony and hypocrisy that it almost falls over itself like a tower made of sand.
It could be a portion of the Void Dragon that learned empathy while shattering at the hands of the race he tried to swallow...or VD is trying to use Humans to beat back the Necrons and take dominance of the Universe once again
i must say....
It was fucking cooool! I love when they found something so impossible but at same time so feasible.
They were practically experimenting all the dimension at the same time with some religious and delicious mambo jambo on top.
The Astynomia and Prefecture Magisterum will be hereby silencing this Heresy forthwith.
So great of you trying to explain "The Room"! ("Oh, hi, Bones!"/ "You're tearing me apart, Arthur!")
it's really one of the lesser atrocities the Emperor committed in his run.
omg the Jangely keys are SO shiney 🥺
Not enough praise for the House of Leaves reference. That 5-1/2 minute hallway would make me crumble, much less wandering into anything more.
Its funny my first video was the catan video so i came to this one for more and you made me laugh so hard so im just gonna binge every you made lmao
The Necrontyr took the C'tan and treated them like the galaxy's fanciest bunch of earthworms. Chop chop, chop, oh neato!
Thanks! 9th is the best XD
holy shit thanks!!!
Trust the Emperor, you may not like it but he knows exactly what he's doing.
idk, if I found myself inside a geometrically impossible enclosure that subverts the laws of space and time, I'd just deal with it.
The coolest concept of the mechanicum is the te h priest's who have the entire planets converted into living machines that they are linked to.
Can see and feel anything anywhere at anytime on a planet.
Ya know speaking of the Dragon of Mars I think it says a lot that apparently the Emperor decided to unleash it or at least a fragment of its power during the Rangdan Xenocides
The Void Dragon is folded in on itself to contain it. The impossible room is skin of the Dragon turned inside out with the rest of the Dragon facing into unreality to keep it contained.
4th dimension means it's a Tesseracht vault
I wonder where emps got that from
Let me get this straight?
Long ago the God Emperor fought a dragon atop Mount Anthor and brought it back to Mars to keep as a pet.
Or was it that he brought it back to Whiterun?
The 4D space is both the Dragon’s shard and its container.
Your keys don’t amuse me skull boy… give the lore 1:05
Your explanation of the impossible room made legitimate sense to me
Wait
Could Prayers to the Void Dragon shard be how human tech has these damned Machine Spirits in them??
Keys go "jingle jangle".
my brain just malfunctioned trying to imagine that 4D space i can only imagine actually taking the info in xd
For the mechanicus it is the worst day of their lifes. For Big E it's Tuesday
So the emperor pulled a bene gesserit on mars and planted the seeds to guide their culture to be worshipped. Nice
I’m a keypilled jinglechad
I think you nailed it when you called them "eldritch"
The C'tan are basically lovecraftian in theme, existing as part of reality but being so alien and advanced in contrast to what we thinking of as living things as to break our fragile minds. The very dreams of which seeping into the minds of the martian people and twisting them into what we see today. Very much like great Cthulhu in H.P. Lovecraft's own works.
The Void dragon is the material embodiment of technological progress. by placing it on Mars but then prohibiting paradigm shifts technologically; Big E made a technological safety net for humanity. No matter what happens a baseline level of technological sophistication would be maintained.
And this makes sense when you realize that the Emperor witnessed several technological periods of regression in human history. The Bronze age collapse, the Burning of Alexandria, the European Dark ages, The age of strife, and now the modern time period. So he establishes this safety net to enure humanity isn't utterly defenseless in the face of the uncaring universe.
Its a fucked up solution. But with the twin options of "Risk literally killing technological progress" or "utilize the Shard for your own ends in a way that contains it." You can see why he might pick the latter.
Have ya played the Mechanicus game yet? I love how nuanced it presents them as.
And the dragon is mentioned in one of the endings. Specifically, its potential awakening.
i wonder who stole the book of the initial guardian of noctus labirynthus
100% that couldn't be the pokémon enthusiast we all know and love, totally.
I dont know if you remember but i recognised the caretaker in the bsckground and still love it and the commentary over it
Alternate reason for the great lie.
Big E did it so that the C'tan shard didn't feel lonely.
Void dragons have feelings too!
Imagine being that dedicated to the belief in 3 dimensional space, in a universe with Warp travel (where the warp is a separate but breaching dimension where physics and space is odd).
When I get the spare money I'm getting the fuck erebus shirt
If I remember right a 4-Dimensional cube is called a tesseract
I like to think that the void dragon created humanity after being imprisoned on earth hoping to use them as a replacement slave race after the necrons broke free, and he gave a few of them imortality just to spite the necrons
8:16 Tesseract. Necrons got loads of ‘em.
At the end of the book they mentioned someone else going back down there after some time....what was that about?
You SoB... You got me into 40K, Fist bump too you Sir
this is the next great 40k channel u go boi
The big lie being exposed and the imperium falling into civil war would be a great story, as well as creating new human factions
Great lore: A long and rather realistic history of how a society distorted itself through thousands of years and the many tragedies of the 40k universe, and to top it as the greater tragedy, how the Imperium was forced to rely on them, with even the emperor making a compromise, really demonstrating the horrifying scale and stakes involved.
Shit lore: Ackshually, it was just emps being EEEEEEVILL and fucking up again g
As someone kind of newish to the deep lore I find the reactions people have to be sort of an IQ test as you describe perfectly.
So it's a scientology moment. With the Emperor being Hubbard.
You know, the more I learn about Big E and his bs, the more Horus keeps making sense. Just saying.
Great lore: A long and rather realistic history of how a society
distorted itself through thousands of years and the many tragedies of the 40k universe, and to top it as the
greater tragedy, how the
Imperium was forced to rely on them, with even the emperor
making a compromise, really demonstrating the horrifying scale and stakes involved.
Shit lore: Ackshually, it was just emps being EEEEEEVILL and
fucking up again g
So there is an obscure reference to the dragon on mars in I “think “ a chaos codex. Abandon has a witch show him the secret of Mars. We aren’t told what he sees but the witch feels out because Abadon starts laughing.
It's actually in one of the NECRON Codices. I have it, somewhere, and I will see if I can dig it up!
The biggest lie of Mars is that they ever had 2 moons
Sounds like the impossible room was built in a non Euclidean space, like the plane on the inside of a sphere.