OCPD and ASD | Behaviour Differences | Part 2
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- Let's talk about a few differences between the behaviours of people with Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD) and Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD).
Part 1 here: • OCPD and ASD | Behavio...
Of course, the list is no-where near complete, nor may it be accurate as no two people with Autism or OCPD are the same. These are my own anecdotal thoughts.
Didn't do much editing with this one, so get ready for just me for 27 minutes. :O
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Hindsight is my biggest foe with both this and the previous video (Part 1) as after many months of personal struggle I have been diagnosed with autism. This doesn't invalidate the entire video, but I feel that a few points might need a rewrite now. I think this is what I love most about making videos. I get to see my own progress over time. That and slowly watch my hair grow too.
😊ppp❤p❤
I'm currently trying to figure out "what's wrong with me" over the last couple of years, your video was the first one i've seen where I thought "someone is describing exactly how I think and feel", I have also considered having Autism but as far as OCPD vs Autism goes I am 9/10 in both for symptoms and really struggling to find a definitive answer. (Does not help that I also have ADHD/CPTSD but do not fully fit with those either) I would be very interested in knowing what exactly was the last piece of information that determined you had Autism and not OCPD, because even with these "similarities vs differences" videos, I cannot tell the differences yet except that "they are just different"; I don't mean that in an insulting way at all I am genuinely having trouble figuring it out, and would really love to hear your story on how you came to know the outcome. :)
@@Jesswyn13 I am in the same boat! I have been obsessively researching and in hanging out in the autism in women reddit group and the more I look into it, the more I feel autism describes me best. I saw someone post that their therapist suggested they developed ocpd as a coping mechanism for their challenges related to autism. I would also love to see another video!
@@Jesswyn13 This Is So Me. I Have A Confirmed Diagnosis Of CPTSD. My Therapists Says There Are OCPD Like Traits But We're Also Considering Both ADHD And Autism. It's SO Confusing. I Also Have MDD In Remission Plus Panic Disorder Which Just Ends Up Masking Up Stuff As Well.
I was just about to post a comment trying to kindly point out inconsistencies in what you said with what I know about ASD but thanking you for this resource as I'm specifically seeking resources that can tell me the similarities and differences between OCPD and ASD and there's almost nothing out there
People always say "do your best" as if I know what my "best" really is. It's like when someone says "jump", my immediate response inside my head is "how high"? I do not know how to interpret someone else's idea of what a jump means unless they are standing beside an open hatch in an airplane. "Do your best" is an open invitation to attempt "perfection". Of course the "neurotypical" explanation of "do your best" assumes a "satisfactory" outcome in terms of what others will consider as a task completed to an "acceptable" level of accomplishment. But my own internal standards for "doing my best" is on a scale of "good", "better", and "best", with the highest critical analysis of the end result reserved for the "best" result.
Adhd and autism together = fast obsessive interest about anything with intensive research and dropping that obsession as fast as you found it when you find a new thing to obsess over.
My life can be summarized as "task incompletion", lol. I'd love to watch a video on comorbidity, btw. OCPD really deserves to be more widely known and researched. Thanks a lot!
Adding the topic to my list for a future video, thanks for your suggestion and support!
@@EdenV thank you for taking it into account! : D
I just got diagnosed with OCPD and social anxiety, and I can really see myself in the need to follow written rules! For me it's more when companies or government don't follow laws/rules, and not so much when a single person don't know the rules. And I always get stressed about companies/government rulebreaking/lawbreaking , because I want it fixed right away!
I'm also very strict about me following laws, so that might be why it gets me so upset when those who make the rules, don't always follow their own rules.
And the social anxiety makes it even worse when I feel I need to speak up and adress these matters with the people braking the rules.
Before I got diagnosed with OCPD, I was wondering if I might have ASD. I really don't remember dates, names, locations ( they don't seem relevant to me). And I'm very sensitive to lights, color, music and too much unnecessary written information (badly written signs/ads) when in stores or events. I often get physically sick the day after a buzzy event. Don't know if I might have both diagnoses, or just one.
Really appreciate you sharing your story, thank you :) ASD is a spectrum, and there is some overlap in behaviour with ADHD. However, I'm of the (personal) opinion that sometimes undiagnosed ASD as a child can manifest OCPD as an adult. It's definitely something I would encourage more research into!
@@EdenV thank you so much for replying.
You might be right about an undiagnosed ASD becoming OCPD as an adult. I did have a tendency for repetition, and focusing on biology as the only topic I wanted to learn about. I still have nature, animals and garden as my main focus, and feel so down in wintertime ( live in Norway) when those interest aren't being met because of 2meter snow, and lack in wildlife. I also stuggeled more with peers when I was young. And loved being with much older people. Like 40++. I weren't keen on all the noise kids made, and I doesn't want to play pretend, but rather "set the scene". And I was bad at eye contact with people. Still are bad at that if I don't know the person well enough, or I'm mentally tired. Might be why I find animals better to communicate with, as they seem more at ease with me 😅
The tests I have taken about ASD on the internet, have all said I'm on the spectrum, so I will be asking my therapist for a further evaluation.
Heard you where going to get an evaluation on if you have ASD, and would love to hear about that 😊
I just discovered your videos. I found your video about similarities and differences between ocpd and ASD to be extremely helpful. I found your personal experience, for wearing this, and clarity to be extremely helpfulThank you
Oh yes, I am autistic and have the worst memory ever--which is hilarious because sometimes my memory is amazing. I can remember things like the layout of someone's, even if I've only been there once. But I cannot remember the street address of that very same house. This is because my brain creates like a blueprint and I can walk-through that house over and over in my head since I think visually. I've also noticed that children tend to love me--even though I do not know why. Childlike whimsy is a perfect way to describe it. I've heard even from ex-partners that I make them feel like they're a child again--I guess that makes sense because of the childlike whimsy.
I agree with your comments about punctuality. I think it's because I have 5,000 other things to think about, it's not a huge priority for me. I'll also say that I'm the same as your husband.Great video.
I completely understand where you're coming from with working memory. I can remember the shape, size and intricate details of a tin that I put a trinket in, but I can't remember where exactly I stashed that tin for safe keeping. Appreciate your support, and thank you for sharing a little about yourself on my channel :) (Sorry again for the late reply!)
Autistic here. I am very concerned about being on time. I won't cancel appointments but I will spend the day waiting for the appointment and get nothing else done. I leave extremely early just in case something happens then will either drive around until it is acceptable to go in or if it is a busier place I will just wait in the car.
Oh my gosh, YES. I do all this too! I am so scared I'll forget an appointment that I will literally clear my entire schedule just so I can wait around for it to happen. I've arrived at appointments up to an hour early sometimes and have ended up parking down a side street to hide and wait until it's acceptable to move closer to the destination.
My sister has a degree in counseling and social work. She thinks that I have autism because a lot of the things that my autistic nephew does reminds her of me when I was younger. My high school counselor thinks that I have OCPD and anxiety, so it has been interesting watching your videos because I can kind of see where both of them are coming from.
I am autistic and for me I’m very rigid with my morality I’m very firmly a utilitarian and I often have to think of all of my actions and the actions of others through that lens. I get very upset when people do things that I don’t deem as productive or helping the greater good even in very little ways. In terms of rules I respect rules I am often regarded as pedantic. I always follow rules specifically said. With rules that haven’t been stated I tend to find loopholes. If I’m specifically told that I cannot look up the answers on the test I will never do that but if no one states it I can do so and feel remorse.
Eden, thank you so much for these videos! I've known for a few years that I have OCPD. I was having a difficult time and decided to do more research. You are the first I have come across that appears to understand the challenges. Maybe it's because I live alone on a boat, in Alaska, and never met another with OCPD? Your words really help to show the things I could not explain about myself. I am grateful to see myself from the outside in. You are appreciated and doing an excellent job! I look forward to watching more. Have a blessed day😇
You did an awesome job, appreciated you sharing some of your personal experiences and your own life situations and differences as well.
Take Care.
I tend to agree with you. I relate to many OCPD issues but I am not rigid with rules and other people not respecting them. I probably don't care enough to judge 😁
My BF gets angry like you describe it.
Also I'm a very visual thinker, I laugh a lot because I see situations like comics. And these visualizations are very accurate, just like Temple Grandin describes.
Also, I'm not good at remembering phone numbers, dates or license plates. My BF is. I will pay attention to them, though, and most of the time see an acronym in them. I need rules to be clear, not unspoken or ambiguous.
I really love your honesty, it's interesting to hear the differences and similarities between you and your BF. Thanks for sharing with me :)
Thank you very much for making these videos. Please keep it up!
This video really helped me to recollect myself and my values, my goals, I know for sure these tips will help out. 😊
You’re doing a great job! I really connected with a lot of these points. I’m looking forward to getting better. Thanks for sharing.
Excited to find you thank you
Adhd/asd..
I hate hate being late.. but the reason is because I can not stand the explaining why the eye contact the verbal awkward interaction. My senses become heightened and a overload will occur.
But on the flip side I hate waiting I'm very impatient and socially awkward 🤯
Thanks for sharing this video
I relate to your husband about getting upset with unwritten rules being broken. I do get anxious when rules get broken but only will get really upset if it affects me in some way. Especially in the examples you used for your husband those upset me because I work so hard to follow these rules that don't always make sense to me and others will just break them and not care.
Oh yeah! My partner is not shy when it comes to telling people off for breaking unwritten rules like cutting in line. He has spent years training himself to externalise and put the responsibility back on the rule-breaker. I on the other hand tend to internalise and blame myself for the rule-breaker's actions. I should have stood a different way and occupied space, or I should have been more confident and it's my fault for letting myself get pushed around.
It's very interesting the differences in how and why people react to rules being broken. I really appreciate you sharing your perspective on it :)
It's chilling to hear that both I and my identical twin sister are pretty much yin and yang in this field. I collect SSI (as of June this year) whilst my sister remains undiagnosed and chronically abusive. Thank you for this. I'm going to ask about OCPD during my next appointment. My doctor insists I'm not ASD but I think I am.. or, now, I'm not so sure because that OCPD stuff describes a lot of my own behavior.
You are really doing great.... thanks a lot for your efforts 😊 I understood more about my self...but maybe late 😅😅😅 because I'm 56 years old.....thanks again... 🌷🌷🌷
I have an AS ex husband and daughter. And now am certain my new partner is OCPD….finding your video is really great. You describe it so well! My daughters black and white thinking means she sees my partner as rude, selfish and disrespectful to me as he ignores my family. How did you get understanding across the ASD OCPD?
Amazing video.
So little about OCPD on the internet. This channel is by far the best on the subject. 😆
hi Eden - i have just found your channel.
i can relate to what u are saying. if possible it would be good to get some scenarios of ocpd. i know that no 2 ocpd people are alike.
:)
Hi! Idk if the channel is still active but I just discovered it. Last year I was diagnosed OCD but I truly think is OCPD instead, every behavior is a description of my personality. I wanted to ask you, what is your relation with loud noises or repetitive sounds, because loud sounds stress me to the point of wanting to cry or super angry, and repetitive sounds the same, I could cry, I don't cry but it's a bad feeling, I know I don't have autism, but I don't know if that is something related to ocpd. Thank you for you content!
I can rewind (in my head) movement even if i didn't original notice. (Example: If my friend sat something down half an hour ago but doesn't remember where he sat it down... he paces alot btw... i can remind and tell him everywhere he moved and in what order, even if i wasn't really watching... idk where he sat whatever it was but i know where he was and when...)
May I also suggest that people with a ASD are, on average, more likely to struggle with understanding and adapting to pragmatic aspects of communication (context, social conventions, non-literal expressions, implied meaning etc.) than someone with OCPD?
On the ocpd side, I think as a whole I am split in the middle with both rules and morality. I have a hard time speeding or being in the car when someone else is- being a rule. But then I also just can not stand hunting for fun and not for food or to benefit the environment- being moral. Maybe the difference could be that we have proof for the rules so we feel validated in our frustration. Where as morals will be different for every person so we can’t guarantee we are right
I really like this! Personal morals and standards always vary from person to person, it's definitely where we see differences come through, but we with OCPD are very rule focused. It's actually within the DSM and one of the traits of OCPD. We have solid proof when someone is doing the wrong thing because it's literally written down somewhere.
7:21
I have autism and I have never been good at imaginative play. I thought it was awkward, and I didn’t know how to do it. And I had Black and white thinking
People with ASD have good imigination but struggle to comunicate it.
I love this comment and completely agree! ASD is a spectrum, I know many who have very vivid imaginations and are very good at expressing it (eg, imaginative play), and others who are the complete opposite.
As someone with OCPD, that can’t find a hobby; what do I do?
Could you talked about the difference between OCPD and ADHD?
I have a question. Do people with OCPD over focus on outside visual details when being physically outside? Do they see or notice every little thing?
Hmm, that's an interesting question! While people with OCPD can be very good at noticing small details, being outside is a totally different sensory environment than, say, looking a computer screen or a room.
I would be inclined to feel that if a person with OCPD is over focusing on visual details when being outside, it might not be a behaviour specifically linked to OCPD and may lie more within another condition like ASD, where sensory thresholds are a totally different experience.
With OCPD it is often that the small details are noticed because of our hyperawareness of perfection, so we will notice pretty quickly if there is a disruption within a pattern.
I hope this helps! Thanks for supporting my channel and watching my videos :)
That sounds potentially a bit like hypervigilance. I tend to scan my environment for all dangers and for changes. Hypervigilance is usually a byproduct of something traumatic, that results in PTSD or Complex PTSD. However due to the probability of also having OCPD I see imperfections and mistakes quite easily (and can also get annoyed that people are making the mistakes. If ONLY they could follow the procedures and rules, like I do).
Is it possible to be autistic and have OCPD? why or why not... particularly as a female
Absolutely possible! Comorbidity is very common with disorders, and actually OCPD is one of the most common adult disorders (between 2 - 7% of the population has it). Girls with autism too are frequently overlooked for diagnosis as children as they are fantastic at copying their peers and blending in. Diagnosis is best done by a psychiatrist who can properly assess and assist in steps for management of both conditions.
Exactly! This is what I also wanted to ask.
I assume that I have both and that those disorders interact with each other.
For example I don't have much of routines that seem so typical to autistic people (that's at least what you see in the media) because I try to be more flexible for tasks or oncoming tasks so I can finish them and don't disappointment anybody if there's anyone included into the task.
On the other hand I have traits that are really linked with autism: I love water, I have SPD (sensory processing disorder) because most of the times I'm seeking for - mainly - proprioceptive senses and I sometimes I take things literally and I always see things in a rational way.
I'm not rigid with money, I just spent what I have (well, as a student I have little anyway), but sometimes I wish I would be more strict with myself.
I could even mention much more things...
Anyways,
lovely greetings from Germany
@@cani.j I really appreciate you sharing your story with me, thank you! :) Autism can present in so many different ways, and not identifying with the more 'typical' symptoms doesn't mean it disqualifies you from the diagnosis. If you haven't already, I always encourage joining support groups on social media (Reddit is so awesome for this!) where you can read and learn more about how others who are diagnosed think, feel, learn and behave in their day to day lives. It's a great way to have those "Aha!" moments where you connect your own behaviours to a condition. And of course, when you are financially able, seek out a professional diagnosis. Having someone professional confirm your suspicions is so validating and opens up many options for treatment and management of the condition. Best wishes from Australia :)
Hallo eden. I am on a quest to find out what is wrong with me. I first thought i probably have avoidant personality disorder with ocpd traits. But now im not sure now i think i definately have full on ocpd with some avoidant personality disorder traits. And also i suspect i have cptsd. All three of these has social isolation as a trait. This is what bothers me the most about myself. Im 52yo female never married no kids one friend, lonely. Can you perhaps do a video comparing ocpd cptsd ? And maybe avoidant personality disorder aswell? Btw i love your hair. Regards
I cut off contact with the world because I am not good at saying the nice things that keep relationships alive. Quite the contrary, I say things that are often misinterpreted by neurotypicals because in their world the words I use do not mean the same things, or I did not understand how my words can be "twisted" around to mean exactly opposite of what I had intended to convey. Duplicitous behavior seems like a game people play on others. I fail to see the "logic" of such "games" people play on each other and fail to realize when I am being "played" for being a fool.
i am so confused because i experience ALL OF THESE. i am diagnosed with autism
Do you find that you can't stand it when people lack common sense or are illogical?
Something bugs me a little is that, in the “social isolation” section, ASD challenges with social communication are largely left out. This is tangentially suggested by the “double empathy problem,” but I don’t hear it directly. Sensory processing issues, however, *are* mentioned, despite not appearing in the diagnostic criteria whilst social communication problems are listed first.
I notice this on a lot of ASD UA-cam videos. Social problems are deemphasized. Not saying this is deliberate, but it feels as though this functions to say “people with ASD are entirely at fault when they get confused by our standards.” Hearing from people with ASD (especially the Aspergers group), challenges with social communication are crippling and seem to account for the majority of the difficulty. Extreme sensory processing issues also sound crippling, but they seem like they’d be less ubiquitous and central.
Absolutely agree, persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction seen in multiple contexts is the first in the list of the diagnostic criteria for ASD. If you are looking for more information that discusses this, I would highly recommend seeking out a different channel that focuses in personal life experiences with Autism. I know of a few that I can recommend as interesting and more informative than mine. I have OCPD and cannot fully comment on what it's like to be Autistic. Thanks for your feedback, it is highly valued.
@@EdenV No personal criticism meant. I know your channel has a specialization and serves it well, whilst I am curious what these other channels you are alluding to are. My issue is not you or your video. It covers a fairly under-covered topic and I’d definitely regard it as the best on that topic (it might still be) outside the diminished certainty that comes from personal vs professional experience. The only reason for that stipulation is certainty. Outside of my one complaint, you knock it out of the park to the extent that I am qualified to judge. My issue is with a pattern I’ve noticed across UA-cam of deemphasizing the social component, and I don’t believe the pattern is necessarily deliberate with anyone (let alone yourself).
(Rest of this comment is my speculation as to the cause of this pattern, should I be seeing it right. I felt the need to write it, but I hope you don’t feel obliged to read it [or the previous part, for that matter, but they’re different]. I think it is interesting, but that’s just my tastes.)
Part of the (likely unconscious) rationale for this pattern might be an attempt to make room for women and girls with ASD, who ostensibly develop sophisticated social “scripts” early on. They’re likely in the unenviable position of being able to hide their handicap whilst never actually getting good enough to win that game. They get to suppress what gifts they may have by neglecting special interests and systematizing in exchange for fighting an uphill battle in the social arena. Finding alternative ways to identify such people would be essential to see them perform at their best.
Alternatively, I have some fear that there may be a societal desire to deny people the ability to say “I’m not particularly good at this, but I really don’t mean you any ill. It’d be nice if we could work this out in concrete terms, because I have few guarantees short of shutting up entirely.” It never ceases to amaze me how many people apparently *want* to think they’re hated (at least if the hater is a soft target) and are resistant to the message “I actually believe you’re a fine person . . . [compliment], [compliment], [compliment]”.
Also likely is that ASD people feel shame over the social component and deemphasize it for the more “quirky” sensory issues.
I have known a few people who demonstrated several ocpd traits. One of the themes I recognized was their self awareness always pointing to the self and not others. The can come across as trying to control you because you can’t do anything right. If you have a manager with ocpd you may need therapy. And remember being flexible and having understanding is extremely healthy and you can build on that. Don’t fall into the idea that your moral existence is based on following their rules. That idea is very immoral.