Being Child-Free is Not An Excuse to Be Childist
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- Опубліковано 23 жов 2023
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#kidsarepeopletoo #parents #unschooling #peoplecare #childism #children #kidsarewesome #kidsarethefuture #permaculture #ableism
I was a childist for a long time until I realized somewhat out of the blue that a lot of adults were awful to me as a kid. Now I go out of my way to be the bright spot in their days. All my neighbors have kids and I’m surrounded by at least 6 kids every time I enter or exit my door😂. I also realized that after I started doing this that they started to be more respectful as well.
I think a lot of folks were treated very badly by their parents and other adults and society as a whole when they were children. I wish they could turn that anger against societal expectations of kids, and not jump into the role of a presser and repeat the cycle with the next generation of children.
I appreciate that perspective, it gives me something to chew on.
I've been shamed my entire life for my choice no to reproduce. I've known my whole life i didn't want any and was always told i would change my mind, they were wrong. I support my friends who are reproducing though and I try to enjoy their children and include them.
No one should shame you for making that choice. You did not deserve that and I am so sorry folks felt entitled to comment on your decision. ❤️
@@ParkrosePermaculture lots of parents can't separate serfdom scholastic slavery from freedom to parent your own child. ITs about appreciation, since they make it about possession this makes sense why many of their kids will also grow up disconnected. Its not bad to not have kids, we are learning our way through life with deliberate efforts to hide the truth form ourselves. We can't just live a lie and keep reproducing simply to provide our masters with future serfs. Parents can't work and raise their children alone as islands in community that is why all community is important. The people complaining about people without children are the same ones who put the old people in nursing homes and schools raising the kids. Having kids or not having kids should not be social status or its just more communist China style attitudes.
As someone that is childfree, I agree with you 100%. Children didnt ask to be here and they are simply acting like children.
Wondering if there is a US equivalent to the tv show, "old peoples home for 4 year olds."? Such a delightful show watching the elderly peoples faces light up as they interact with the young children and watching their mental and physical health improve as the show progresses. I think adults of all ages need children in their lives as much as children need adults. Even if its little chats with neighbour children over the fence, those interactions are valuable to both parties. I still remember fondly all the kind neighbours that took time to talk to me 40 years ago.
True.
this is why the empire has elders in nursing homes and children in public schools, separate facilities to destroy the family/.
That’s so sweet you have these memories. The elderly should be some of the most protected and respected members of society imo. Everyone of us will end up with old age if we’re lucky so we should strive for good conditions for our own benefit too imo
Problem is guns and war have deleted many kids and adults!
If u want grandkids stop setting us up to get killed!!!@@FrankskinOrweed-ep4ij
I have a child with special needs and can absolutely attest to the overlap/magnification of ableism and childism. It’s exhausting and isolating how unwelcome I feel with my child in many public spaces.
As a mum to two audhders- can confirm. It’s brutal
from what I have seen, even mothers complain about other women's babies crying in public, as if no one understands how they came into the world. Its a clown world we live in, stay safe ladies.
Sorry to hear this ladies!
@seankingwell3692
Yes I’m not surprised. But I do think there’s a difference with having genuine difficult children who you try to control and just lazy parents who don’t care about their offspring’s conduct.
What I can’t stand are attention seekers. I know of a mother who does her best to draw attention to her and her toddler daughter on the bus, taking phone calls, loudly saying animal sounds or loudly chastising her daughter and disclosing their business etc it’s very rude and unnecessary! Not the time or place.
When there’s autistic children, it’s often observable from onlookers imo but I don’t have the experience obviously with autistic kids so I presume some don’t know the difference with badly behaved and autistic as OPs have stated.
100%. I have seen so much hate about just bringing kids into public places like restaurants and airplanes. Like how exactly are those kids supposed to know how to act in those places if they are never brought there and taught. Ridiculous.
The vitriol around kids on airplanes especially, is staggering to me. Families are entitled to travel too. Whenever I get on a plane and someone with an infant or small children is near me. I always take the time to let them know that I will not be upset if their child is having a hard time, and not to stress out about it.
I faced this problem in the 80’s when my children were small, and 40 years later it’s just as bad, if not worse.
More self-entitled selfish adults than ever it seems.
It’s because of y’all poor parenting. A child crying on a plane is normal, but a child kicking the back of my seat grabbing my hair and standing up over me literally screaming in my ear is not OK.
The reason why children get such a bad rap is because the parents allow their children to infringe on other people spaces and do disrespectful things. I’m not talking about people who get mad if a child is crying that is normal and those people are crazy. However, if you are letting your child kick the back of people seats or excessively touch them and be in their face, you are wrong. I don’t love your child the way you love your child and I like my personal space some of your parents don’t understand that maybe y’all are the real problem and not the child
@user-fl1hd1zr1d
Well said! It’s true that it’s not only fed up annoyed onlookers who get angry at crying children. It’s a lot of the time kids who don’t get a good telling off from their parents when they’re out of line! Or what I’d call lazy parenting.
It shouldn’t be a last resort to discipline your kids in public, it should be common practice!!
I was on a flight the other day and a child was watching a movie without headphones! I could hear it a couple rows down.
I was so tempted to ask the air hostess to quieten them, as even on buses you are advised not to do this and use headphones and when I lived in Liverpool City this was common practice for children. Very inconsiderate but it was mainly the lazy parents who didn’t have the cop on or decency to enforce this without having to be asked!
Crying kids are part of life. On planes it’s harder to avoid but in other settings like restaurants, shop etc, it should be the parent to try to calm them and then leave with them if they cannot get control of them! I think most people have patience for those sorts of sympathetic parents who do try!
Then there’s women going viral for insisting that buggies be allowed up elevators or helped upstairs, instead of just taking the baby out of the pram and bringing them upstairs.
Ridiculous entitlement from all parties show the worst in society!
I have a child with PDA profile autism who basically sees himself as equal to all people, including adults. I agree with him on this as much as I can. It's amazing to see how people just don't expect him to talk to them or ignore what he is saying. (he's still very young)
I don't want to have kids, but I don't hate them. I wouldn't mind being an aunt/uncle, I just don't want any of my own. Then you get to hang out with them and have fun but you don't have to do any of the hard work lol 😂
The vitriol around children is such a weird sad phenomenon.
It is not weird: it is the result of selfishness. Selfishness of the now and not the future. Why no one trusts those who are not married with children.
Most pedophiles are married w/ kids ..
@@w8stral
Agree so much! I wish for everybody to surround themselves with people of all ages, the young, the old, and everything in between. Your past, your present and your future.
So I’m a childless not by choice women, and I’m not at all offended about a post saying that another women knows & is reminded that she does not want to be a parent and that’s why she’s on birth control. Parenting is hard! I’m glad that that women knows her limitations, because if let’s say she didn’t and she ended up hurting her child or worse regretting ever having them, in my mind that’s 100% worse (especially for the child!) I’m glad the truth is coming out for women and men that being a parent is not rainbows & butterflies and some peoples personalities are not equipped with the patience for being a parent and everything it involves. I find it so sad when I see parents being cruel to their children cause they’re burnt out and expected parenthood to be a walk in the park. We live in a very pronatalist world! Not everyone should be a parent and some parents should never have had children.
I agree. I'm child free by choice. And face a lot of stigma for it. I've chosen this life for many reasons (the main one being I don't want to bring a child into such a f**ked up world). When I see a kid behaving in a way that irritates me, that's OK, I'm allowed to be irritated, but I do feel deeply for them as it's so often poor parenting that causes dysregulation
I don’t think anybody should be forced to reproduce. The worst idea is making someone be a parent who doesn’t want to take on that responsibility for another human.
Respecting the privacy and rights of child free people is a good thing. Child free people seeing children as less than human is beyond gross, and judging and shaming, and making a fake stories about mothers is antifeminist.
Somewhere along the line, the social media discourse about being child free has turned into rampant justification for hating children and mothers. I realize not all child free people are not that way. None of my child free friends are that way. But the folks that choose to create their platforms on the basis of screaming loudly about how they are oppressed by the existence of children in society and shaming children and parents are clearly grappling with deeply internalized Childism, ableism, misogyny.
We definitely have a very pronatalist culture, but it is also a very anti-child culture
Absolutely this. I'm pleased about the choices I've made but that doesn't mean i hate the little people. Anyone who expresses such vitriolic behaviours about children should really check themselves first and try to be the adult that they're supposed to be.
I'm glad others have noticed this. As a childfree person, I only recently discovered the childfree community and was shocked by the intense disdain for children and parents simply existing in public spaces.
My husband and I were out for dinner when my young daughter began to act up. The people at the next table had a perfectly behaved child. I was embarrassed. My husband said "What a shame. They got a dud".
When I see young children with “perfect behavior” especially behavior that is not developmentally normal for them, I think about the Duggars and blanket training. You don’t get perfect behavior out of kids without fear, shame, abuse.
No the reason they have a perfectly behaved child is cause that child is properly disciplined I hate seeing these crazy children kicking my chair screaming in my ear, and touching me or grabbing at me. I feel like alot of parents make excuses for there lack of parenting by calling this behavior normal, when it’s not. There’s a difference between a little bit of crying or even a emotional tantrum but other things not so much
Unfollowed a youtuber because she suddenly mentioned that she hates children. I have children. She never met them. Why does she hate my children? Why would I follow someone who hates my children? One of them is now legally an adult so now that child is okay? I won't follow a person proud of their hatred for a certain age group.
(I never ask people why they don't have children. If you don't you don't, if you do you do. I'm actually not interested until you want to talk about it yourself because you feel the need to.)
There is no other marginalized class that progressive/liberal people can hate on in public and not only NOT get canceled, but actually get cheered on.
There was nothing wrong with that comment lol every time I hear a kid screaming I thank the Lord I don’t have kids. I think parents have kids and they’re their entire world and when someone says they don’t like kids or when kids do certain things that people don’t find appealing. Parents take it personal because maybe your kid does do these things. The world isn’t going to cater to your feelings or your child’s feelings. She didn’t wish harm on kids she’s simply glad she doesn’t have to deal with it.
Yeah. No. I don’t take it personally with my child does something. Although I find it really odd that people want to blame parents for the developmentally appropriate behavior of their children. Children are their own human beings. They are not extensions of their parents. The world shouldn’t cater to the feelings of CF people who cannot bother to build distress tolerance skills, and cannot handle the minor inconvenience of people having behavior in public directly tied to their developmental and physical abilities but which the CF folks don’t like.
You don’t have to “wish harm on someone” to be prejudiced. Reinforcing systems of power that marginalize entire groups of people based on age or ability is harm enough.
I always wanted to have children.
But there's the expense issue.
There's also the fact that I won't have a partner that isn't a soul mate.
I do not have children but wanted them. Because im now disabled it wouldnt be fair to bring them into my world, now. However, it is not my place to judge others for their decisions though i may not understand some perspectives.
Wouldn't the correct term be "ageism" not "childism" ...?
I honestly don't think so. Our society is deeply child hostile
I think ageism refers to bias based on age, but childism is specifically bias against children. Similar but childism is more specific.
Ageism is usually referred to for folks who are older than us. Childism refers to prejudice against folks who are not only younger than us, but also prejudice against the specific cognitive, physical, and developmental limitations of children.
I would also add that childsm speaks specifically to the lack of rights and the particular kind of disempowerment that only children experience.
Nobody's forced to like kids. I don't care why someone is child-free.
Yes. All of this.
Too many ppl think hating kids is a cute and quirky personality trait when really they’re just assholes
I led a group of women hiker's for a couple of years, until the anti-children women in the group became super obnoxious about their views. I could not believe some of the stuff that was coming out of their mouths. When I heard "I just can't stand it when kids come up to me at the store. I'm like, can't you keep control of your kid?!" followed by another woman saying "OH I just give the mom the death stare when that happens" I had enough and tried to talk with them about it. I tried to explain to them what women who do want children or have children or who have lost children feel like when they hear these negative comments. That this mom could be incredibly exhausted with no support. That these kids could be special needs. That they could be hiking with women who were pregnant but keeping it a secret, or that could have lost children. That there's a whole emotional world of women that they are unaware of. I was incredibly kind and loving in my response, followed by these women never wanting to speak to me again. And I thought they were my friends. I was incredibly disillusioned and still feel traumatized that some people feel this way. Their staunch hatred of children genuinely reminded me of nazis.
It is ableist to take one's child free philosophy to those ridiculous extremes you just described, Angela. Excellent take.
Never heard the term childism before, as English is my second language; just looked it up, and strangly enough the term can refer to two completely different notions: one, meaning the empowerment of children and childrens rights, the fight against marginalization of children, two meaning the prejudice against children , the marginalization of children. Interesting. Strange. A word should not means one thing and at the same time the opposite. Probably one should invent two or at least one new term reserving this term for only one meaning. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childism
Yes! It’s like “inflammable”. Language is tricky!!
Such a great take 💫 I’m yet to have kids but have become softly pro-natalist in recent years… v controversial in eco circles ofc but imo left wing antinatalism is a horrifying dead end. ‘’It’s anti feminist to be childist’’ is a powerful take I haven’t heard before - will be backlogging that. Would also love to read and resources you may have found about this.
Resources: Lets start with some Logic: To improve our living environment what is required? Applied WORK, via inventions, sacrifice to bring these inventions improving everyone's life to fruition. Improvement does not magically happen. Work is accomplished by willing hands and minds. A death cult of any inclination, religion, political faction has no future. The future is what matters, not my OWN selfish ends today. Children are our future.
Children need teaching, disciplining, instituting self control, how males/females interact etc by their dedicated promised married parents. Without both parents they grow up handicapped, retarded compared to their married parent compatriots.
Modern Feminists believe females are equal to males. Females are superior/inferior to males in all aspects comparatively speaking. Not one aspect of life are males equal to females. These biological, built in from birth, superiorities/inferiorities + inclination differences between the sexes heavily skew competency in adult male/females in ALL aspects/fields of life as one more energetically pursues what they are interested in. So, no, males/females are not equal in adult life, thus the whole word "feminist" in the modern sense is idiotic to even use. Part of fe(male) superiorities/inferioritiesI are the massive differences between the sexes in how they both problem solve which also influence how, what, where, when they apply their understanding of themselves or the world. In this aspect neither sex is equal in the slightest.
Part of becoming a mature adult is Acknowledging You are not sufficient by yourself. Acknowledging as a man, I need a woman and you as a woman need a man to COMPLEMENT, buttress, compensate our superiorities/inferiorities is what rational adults DO. Those who are NOT mature adults will NEVER acknowledge the above statement.
Far as I can tell, modern "feminist" = anti : woman, man, marriage, children, rational thought.
Far as I can tell "feminist" today = Someone who is a lying, selfish, inward looking, utterly delusional pretending they are equal to some nebulous, always moving target. So, "its anti feminist to be childist?" Why would they think about the future and improving the world via self sacrifice? They hate themselves as they denigrate many of females superior traits to males while ignoring many inferiorities compared to males. They are anti themselves and delusional. Of course modern feminists are childist. You do not need any "resources" to see this.
Children need BOTH married sacrificing parents, growing up/maturing while observing how both interact/sacrifice with each other in an complementary ADULT/MATURE, RESPECT, HONOR, DUTY, LOVING, CARING relationship otherwise they grow up handicapped, retarded going forward in life. Thus the future environment in which they live will be degraded and worse off.
The caregivers of children are women, by a huge margin. Space is that exclude children, exclude mothers, and grandmothers and other caregivers. When I speak about the Intersectionality between childism and misogyny and racism and classism, it’s not only because kids who have other minority status are being doubly oppressed, it’s also because the women who care for children, who cannot afford to be separated from them to participate in society are predominantly Women of color and people who are socioeconomically disadvantaged.
Well, bring back orphanages if you asked me. Remove the massive restrictions/costs to adoption is yet another problem. Should be free to ALL married adults of more than 5 years. WHY? Children should be TAKEN from anyone who has medicaid pay for their child to be born who are not married and whom either the man or the woman say they do not want the child. If They cannot raise the child without government support, then the child should not be in their care at all. This eliminates the "women cannot afford to be separated" in your statement... How disgusting is that? Cannot afford..... it is only "cannot afford" because if they get a JOB, they lose their child support sucking from both the childs other parent who is expected to work and the government who is "giving benefits" but also pulling down a % of said child support. Either that or flip the primary custody percentages back to the men as it was traditionally done in times past instead of the +75% custody to women as done today
It is clear from all of the studies that single parent raising of children is a disaster of epic proportions for both children(grow up handicapped) and (single mothers) who do the right thing by having the child, but then become disadvantaged by no man will ever take her seriously and pursue her for marriage as they are always wondering about the previous man who will be bouncing in whenever for the children and whom the woman can deny him parentage rights by court law. This leaves the woman bitter at men and this bitterness transfers to the children who now have a warped view of relationship between men/women. This warped view then effects the children's ability to pair bond as they have never seen it done before as all other children who grow up with 2 parents see everyday of their life. Has nothing to do with minority status, intersectionality, religion, or creed as all those groups who have 2 parents their children have identical test scores as the majority group.
The "CHILDIST" movement is near exclusive coming from children born to a single parent or snot nosed golden spoons who join for purely selfish reasons. @@ParkrosePermaculture
Genz is not so bad off they don’t want to have kids. What we have is a cultural problem where young women are afraid having kids will set them back many years on the economic ladder. Poor people are having a similar amount of kids now compared to the recent past. It’s the women that want to have careers that are being effected by the work culture
10000% this.
I love kids. I also want childfree spaces. But people do forget it wasn’t that long ago children had no rights at all. Those are the people who took those rights for granted.
Being childfree is the best decision I have ever made.
A totally valid choice to make! Glad it’s going well for you.
Being shit about and around children while touting childfree ideology only solidifies the negative views and opinions those opposed to the choice might hold about it.
Do what you want with your life, but don't aim to negatively impact others in the process.
its sad this world thinks it has to posses children to care about them, it makes bad parents and crazy mobs that hate their mothers and fathers.
Whenever I encounter someone who blatantly does not like children, I have to wonder how they were treated as a child to have internalized those very intense feelings. It's one thing to find some of the behaviors of children annoying, that's pretty universal. It's on a whole different level to just absolutely despised children and make a big deal about having to be around them. So like I said, I have to wonder what happened to them as a child to make them so forcibly triggered by even just the presence of children.
Probably nothing. It is just your coping mechanism. A projection to imagine bad things happened to them in the past to bring yourself relief thinking that they suffered enough because you don't like them, a backward schadenfreude.
*SLOW CLAP* Louder for the folks in the
back. I honestly support those who choose not to have children. Like you I have four, and two are neurospicy. It is HARD. But i am enraged at the deep level child hostility our society exhibits.
I've always been childfree, but I've never heard of childist before. Does it mean that people dislike children? It sounds more like ageism. Our age is something we can't control. I agree that it's wrong to dislike people because of their age. If you're 20-30 and work in a professional office environment, people don't take you seriously, especially if you look young for your age. People will say you're too young, you're fresh out of school and they don't respect you as much as their middle-aged colleagues. I'll agree that children are a marginalized group. I had a miserable childhood. I would never want to go back to that, and I was a privileged kid in a developed country. I'm sure that childhood is an even worse experience for most people, especially if their families are poor. People might be more respectful of people in their 40s, but it won't last long. You just become old and have to deal with more health problems, and you'll have fewer opportunities. My grandparents lived to be in their 80s and 90s, but they were miserable. When my grandpa was 90, he had chronic pain and couldn't walk. He wanted to kill himself, and he prayed for his own death. It's one of the reasons why I strongly support the death with dignity movement. Nobody asked to be here, and most people, if they're being honest, don't want to be here. Animals get to die with dignity, and we don't. We have more compassion for dogs than humans. Our only option is a slow and painful death, often caused by a chronic illness that could last for 20 or 30 years.
My comment is obviously not replying to the same scenario that the original video is about. If you're going to a family function and you know your siblings have kids-even if you can't stand being around kids--you suck it up and are nice to the kids.
What I don't agree with is every single thing being catered to kids and families. I should be able to go into a space that is socially designated for adults like a brewery and not have to listen to toddlers having tantrums. Or nice restaurants. Or dive bars.
Do parents of young children deserve to go to nice places? Sure! But if you're not in a position to have your child be watched or they're too young to be able to behave, there are places that young children shouldn't be in. And I like kids! Kids are great! I don't want to be forced to interact with them in every aspect of my life because spaces that were adult only spaces have been infiltrated by toddlers
Also, do children deserve to go out and interact with the world? Of course! But there are appropriate places for that and those places should not include adult spaces. So in that regard I'm childist when it comes to certain venues in public, but not in public in general
I'm childfree by choice, but I've also been an educator for the past 10 years for children (and adults) of all ages.
My take is that when people say they don't like kids, what I'm thinking is that they may have only interacted with kids that haven't been raised in a very healthy way.... By that I mean that plenty of people have kids that have a lot to learn about raising happy, confident, and socially-emotionally skilled children. 🤷🏻♀️
but there are people like that who do have kids but want to not be parents. both is awful
Fta
From the article? Failure to adapt? What? 😂
@@thatsalt1560 For the algorithm.
Not everyone likes kids
What other class of marginalized people is it ok to dislike out of hand simply bc of their status?
People shouldn't talk about how annoying children are as a reason for not having them on a public platform, it hurtful for people who have kids. A little consideration is all that's needed.
Those who "love animals" usually very lonely and hateful people towards HUMANS🖤.
Usually but not always. Some people are totally disgusting human beings with a sadistic nature to cause pain and anguish to all life forms.