Why Haas dropped off in 2022
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- Опубліковано 27 жов 2022
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Haas started this year looking like they could take the fight to Alpine and McLaren for 4th in the constructors' championship, but now they look like the second slowest team again. What went wrong?
Twitter: @formulajohn_
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I’ve seen a couple comments pointing out my mistake on Bahrain’s result for Mick Schumacher - he was actually on track for points but he was hit by Ocon which ruined his chances. Sorry for the mistake! The race was so long ago I sort of forgot what happened :(
You never watched. Fake
You have zero journalistic integrity obviously.
/s
I disagree with you saying Mazepin had no talent.
Even more dramatic what happened to Alfa Romeo, especially Bottas: first 9 races - 46 points... last 10 races - 0 points. That's one hell of a tumble.
Did bottas finish one of the last 10 races?
@@dejanvanderputten3017 He had 4 DNF's in the past 10 races... basically a combination of poor performance and poor reliability.
One of the things that happened is they were the only team to come in at the minimum weight. All the other teams could lighten their cars up and gain some speed. Alfa had no room for improvement in that area.
I think for alfa its beter to sign hulk than bottas next time
And he's still 10th in the standings, 10 points clear of 11th which is Vettel
Noticed pretty much all Ferrari-powered teams keep dropping off in performance as the year went on
The Ferrari power unit isn't the most reliable but the drop off for Haas and Alfa is probably down to the two Ferrari customer teams having the lowest budgets in F1
@@teenybopper777 Then there is Ferrari themselves.
@@USANA158 Indeed! What a hot mess that team has been this year
Binnotto man you gotta fix your ways
Your fault
Schumacher got Punted by Ocon in Bahrain. The car had damage so wasn't his fault.
Man I really wonder what this season would be like with big bad Nikita behind the wheel
They would be championship contenders.
It will be clash of titan with Goatifi.
he'd come 22nd in a 20 car championship
If Mick beat him, then Mick still would be considered a good driver in a bad car...
@@AnggaTangerang grab your popcorn! Shit boutta get real
We shouldn't ignore that Haas also have a habit of ruining both their driver's races with extremely poor strategy calls and K-Mag is very unlucky with black and orange flags thrown at him. Obviously it would help him if he didn't have a habit of wrecking his front wing endplates but if Perez proved anything in Austin it's that race control seems not to care if the top teams are driving without an endplate.
The issue with K-mag’s wing wasn’t that he is missing the endplate but that the endplate is hanging off. Perez’s endplate fell off after about 3 laps while Kevin got Black & Orange flagged after about 6 laps. I’m not saying Haas haven’t been completely fucked by the stewards but the Perez and Magnussen situations are completely different
@@tigerbattle I agree those situations aren't entirely similar but a broken front wing is still a safety hazard. At the same time I'd question why it takes them six laps to make a decision but we already know they're taking their time more often than not
In austin the strategy ruined mick changes of getting podium, he was ahead of K-mag, but the one-stop strategy worked better than 2 stop for haas
@@tigerbattle George’s Merc had a broken right end plate. Sky Sports commented on it and showed it flapping when George was turning left. They were wondering why he didn’t get the black & orange flag either.
I really think that this is Micks actual rookie season. There were 0 expectations last year so how can anyone expect him to have learned anything meaningful? I hope he stays at Haas and I hope Haas has a good car next year
Have I ever told you the definition of insanity?
Bye bye Mick, can't live off your dads legacy
@@henrik1743 but you are, so what right do you have to bark nonsense?
@@Karozy4869 That's my opinion buddy, don't like it, eat shit?
I'd hope a year of "racing" and testing an F1 car would teach you some things
Ignoring in the first race Mick was spun in the first lap, he was easily gonna get points if not for the spin
Still outqualified by Kevin
@@dapopo3597 so what ??
@@dapopo3597 F1 Veteran vs a guy who is in his second ever year in f1:
@@dapopo3597 Still losing to Mick H2H.
@@AbsoleteAim Still absolutely destroying Mick in things that matter, like points scored, number of races with points scored, qualifying and car rebuilds. But sure, you should enjoy your own reality.
I also think fia’s meatball flags have contributed a lot. I know Kevin can be a bit over excited on the first lap causing some damage, but imo it’s not enough to force him to pit. And also if they force haas to pit why aren’t they doing it to the other teams like red Bull and alpine this weekend? Idc what the rules are just as long as everyone is treated the same by the fia, which they are not..
This is a good point. I was just saying how K-mag gets flagged even for letting an irregulatory fart blow.
I mean in Alonsos case I'd say it's better to do a mandatory pit stop bcs of some damage, then to learn after the race that you should've pitted even tho no one from the FIA thought so at that time, and then get a 30 second penalty
The FIA itself and its relationship to F1 are both in desperate need of reform. The organization is way too bureaucratic and cumbersome to do its job well and what that job is supposed to be isn't actually clear to me. It's ostensibly supposed to be an independent body that regulates F1 but we all know that's not the case at all. To me it looks like the FIA is vestigial to the series and is kept around because that's just the way things have always been done. It's involvement in anything seems to only serve to make things more complicated and a bigger headache.
Mazepin would’ve podiumed this car
Of course he would he is the goat
Fax
Fax
Fax
Fax
Haas focused on their 2022 car early on and that shows in the early races, but then that whole mess with Uralkali probably put a stop to their development money-wise. Gene is probably pumping money into the company by then but I'd still think it affected them somehow.
Hopefully with a not sketchy sponsor this time they can start seeing results by maybe 2024.
Gene is not pumping any money into Haas , that’s why they’re struggling for money
@@tigerbattle Pretty much explains even more why their pace dropped. I mean I'm surprised that didn't cause them to regress further down the order. Either means they're good at taking advantage of situations and making use of what they have or other teams behind them are just struggling a lot more technically than financially.
You said Mich may as well have been in F2 last year for all the good it's done him, but I'd argue he'd have been better off in F2, or literally any other series last year, and that that lost year was worse than worthless.
And how may times this year has Haas, themselves, killed Mick's races either through strategy calls that make Ferrari look like geniuses, or through agonizingly slow pitstops?
Micks pace does have been on and off. Sometimes he finds incredible pace on older tires but then he just goes noodle mode. But then again he is basically a rookie since last year he was just driving a safetycar around basically against a teammate who couldnt touch him.
I'm pretty sure that the cars are designed to break in half after very big crashes so the energy is expended that way and not through the driver. They've also has some pretty dismal strategies that have cost them points and bad luck with the meatball flag. I don't really understand what gene haas wants from his team considering his lack of investment but hopefully the new sponsor is a good one after their rocky part relationships. I'm also not sure if I rate Steiner as a team principal, he's very funny but doesn't seem to have always made the best decisions. Someone like otmar would be perfect for the team.
Steiner is by far the worst principal, and any serious owner would have fired him after the Rich Energy disaster
@@lucas_dr3 he is a fun dude that's for sure, but he's nowhere close to managing a team
@@lucas_dr3 I mean Binotto is also pretty bad, the only thing Ferrari seem good at doing rn is making a good car which makes sense with his background as a mechanic but that's what he should've stayed as imo
I really wanted Haas to go after Otmar Szafnauer. Steiner is very entertaining and can be a decent team principal. It's easy to forget that Haas first couple of years in F1 were pretty damn good for a new team and Steiner deserves credit for that. The last few years however it just seems like a change has been needed. I thought Szafnauer would have been perfect given how well Force India/Racing Point did with limited resources when he was in charge.
Given how F1 is pushing into the American market Gene Haas' failure to more heavily invest in the team is kind of baffling to me. We've seen that fans in the US are interested in F1 despite having no US drivers and the only American team being a lower-midfield outfit. F1 doesn't _need_ Americans prominently featured to appeal to the US market, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to give fans in this country someone to root for. I think it's possible that the investment Haas needs to move up the grid would more than pay for itself by attracting new fans to the team.
@@BiggieTrismegistus honestly as a fan of American Motorsports like NASCAR and IndyCar before F1, I’m a little disappointed that it was Haas that made the first jump to F1, I feel like Hendrick or Penske could’ve done a better job
I completely forgot how good haas’ plain white livery looked 😫
looked at moneygram on wikipedia. have done some dodgy stuff but the paragraph isn't huge. they have actually done some charitable things as well and is valued as a billion dollar company so at least we can more or less certain that the deal will actually give haas decent money for the long-term
I am sorry but I'm really really disappointed. Not a fan of Mick but the reason he was slow was because a certain ocon just rained behind him meaning a spin and destroyed tyres.
It's true, we've had an up and down year, but at least we have a seemingly better trajectory. Mick needs to stay, and the long overdue legitimate title sponsor are welcome news for us
i feel like you can't ignore a lot of the strategic blunders that Haas have made since Austria as well, I feel like both Mick and Kevin have had plenty of chances to score points that they haven't been able to capitalize on because of odd strategic decisions or early damage like Kevin
One of the reason why I think Haas is dropping in performance is the sudden change of aero philosophy of their car. They could've just continue what they did with the old aero package and improve it over the season, but they decided to copy Ferrari's which had similar chunky sidepods but, works differently
they also have used ferraris strategists on quite a few of micks recent races
Tbf haas have the smallest budget and have a lot of money to pay for crashes. They have gone through a lot in the last few years so I think that they are holding on as good as they possibly could
Haas has always dropped off as the season progresses. They don’t have the facilities to develop like the other teams. I’m hopeful the Moneygram money will help them be able to grow the team. Magnussen deserves to be in a better car, I think he is one of the better drivers on the grid. I think he does the best with mediocre machinery. Would love to see what he could do with a more capable car and team. I would like to see Mick remain. I feel like this is Mick’s actual rookie season.
Haas busy talking smack about mick rather than making the necessary upgrades that's why they went like slug
Haas should set up a fund where fans can donate to the budget
Even though Mick didn't satisfy his team in this season, at least give him a seat next year for him to prove his potential as we all saw in 2021 and 2022
If his name was Müller no one would see his potential.
Also what is the Mick agenda? His car got damaged by ocon in L1 in bahrain, at least get your facts right
There is no agenda nicks just not good enough
@@DMC_Motorsports well then he should at least get his facts right, also mick is outperforming Magnussen since Canada
i want haas to do good but they just never do :(
"Maybe their wind tunnel isn't as good as Redbulls" is a bit of a misguided point, they share Ferrari's wind tunnel currently. But other points are definitely valid.
"maybe they have older and slower equipment" then shows a ton of cnc machines... you know what HAAS makes right?
Hey John, how do we contact you for business and project inquiries?
Reach out to me via kshajv@mmaisland.net or @kshajv on instagram
I'll say it. Haas should have got the dream team to win the championship: Mazespin + Goatifi!
This mortal world is not ready for that combination 😂
@@RonanMathieson right? We would have not deserved it, that's why I'm glad it didn't happen. It would have been WAY too much greatness to witness all at once
As a Haas Fan. I pray, I mean seriously, I pray that the 2023 car is good because of this new money w/ the new sponsors. PLEASE HAAS!
I think Steiner is right in saying, that upgrades are a double edged sword.
At least they had a decent home race for once. Same goes to Danny Ric
Mazepin was more spinning than crashing the car, whilst Mick was you know
This being micks ‘rookie’ season he has done very very well has has beat his MUCH more experienced teammate and has grown a lot since the start of the season. Hass will make a huge mistake if they get rid of him. But for KMag he has been a little disappointing over the last 10 races being regularly beat by Mick
Tbf to kmag some of the races behind mick were from the meatballs but yea mick has definitely improved. Strategy tho…
They literally can’t afford his crashes. Why can’t mick fans understand that a team with no money can’t afford to keep a driver that has cost them more in damage than latifi at Williams?
Haas is literally a machine tool builder
Yea but they specialize in smaller and mid level stuff, not the type of machinery that is used to build F1 cars. But, to your point, I would think they have some connections that allow them better stuff.
As the only "American" team I really want them to do well but it is hard to cheer them on when you're always thinking that at any point they are going to pull the plug.
The Russian flag on the car was only a minor issue, the main was that Mazepin's dad was in the same room with Putin when launching the attack on Ukraine was decided. Secondly, Mik was cleared to race in Saudi, Guntheir decided he shouldn't because of money
That's true. Either way it was still annoying the the only F1 team from the US had a car made up to look like the Russian flag. Putin's (latest) invasion of Ukraine was the straw that broke the camel's back but it's not as if Russia under his leadership was exactly doing wonderful things both domestically and in foreign affairs prior to that either. I suppose it could just be residual effects from the Cold War but I know I, like many other Americans, view Putin's Russia very negatively.
Imagine if they kept Mazepin even after the war. Maybe that could be a sign for a new Russia-USA partnership, at least in the motorsport world.
Make a Video on Aston Martin through the season
I think the power units also contributed. Haas, Alfa Romeo and Ferrari lost ground throughout the season while Mercedes and Aston Martin gained. I don't think that's just a coincidence.
Make a Video on Alfa Romeo through the season
Basically just happend the same as every Haas seasons...
Their mid season upgrade also didn't seem to help them.
Major upgrades need a different strategy in approach from the team. I think this just shows how small the team is. They just have not been able to pursue the upgrades development like other teams. It’s the little things from the outside like suspension setup, etc., where they are falling behind.
they took pole.
Mainly cause they don’t like mick and they keep destroying his strategy
10 secs into vid I'm gonna call it, they're developing 2023 car
My man really doing mick dirty. crashed 3 times and had unfortunately huge crashes cuz he lost the car driving it on the edge. Kmag in the meantime fucked his own race for like, 9 races in a row now by destroying his front wing? At this point they are at least tied if not Kmag has made more damage for HAAS than Mick has.
Mick got tapped round in bahrein aswel otherwise he would have scored points
I don't know if it is just a money issue. They managed to stay somewhat competetive last year without spending any money but just understanding the car better. For this season they also have race pace but also Ferrari apprentices in the strategy room and pit crew. So I would account their downfall as much to money as I would account it to simple incompetence. All not helped by what seems to be an incredibly toxic team enviroment.
Love me some Haas F1. However I must admit that I am a diehard Kevin Harvick fan who also loves Tony Sterwart. So needless to say when Tony Stewart tendered up with Gene Haas to make the lovechild that is Stewart-Haas Racing and eventually signed KH...I was bound by blood to SHR. Thus I am a Haad F1 fan. All that being said I am still happy with what Haas F1 had accomplished this year and am stoked on the prospect of having Money Gram as a sponsor. I am hoping for good things in the future and come hell or high water I'll ride with my homies!
If you pay attention to Money Gram, you would know they aren’t doing very well themselves. They have been bought by a PE firm which would take them private, and through laying off people and restructuring, hopefully they would be doing good again. Sponsoring Haas is just a marketing play. I won’t expect too much out of this partnership.
Tbh alot of it is Gene Haas fault. How do you expect to be competitive in F1 without dumping money? 🤦♂️
Merc, McLaren and Alpine sorting themselves out is more of the reason why Haas has dropped. Mercedes especially
Simple, it's Haas, they don't know how to develop a car...
a lot of the time the haas is running in the between the 6-12 positions until they put and ruin their races
Well magnussen kinda drove into lewis, also in canada he tried the same
TBF, only having one major upgrade package all season [So far as I'm aware] was bound to have performance slip away, but still - points, double figures worth... For both drivers! Things haven't been this good since they had to scrub Rich Energy off the cars. At the same time, Haas' business model of having Dallara design & build the car, then have Ferrari stick at much as they're allowed to under the bonnet has always been detrimental to their development race. But at least now they're no longer adrift, which after the last 2 years must be a big deal
You we’re expecting haas to be best of the rest?
A couple points I'd like to make:
1. HAAS has not bothered to spend the money on a separate low downforce package so there was no way they were going to be any good at Spa and Monza. This was deliberate. They felt it was better to spend that money on the more common high downforce tracks.
2. There is nothing wrong with their wind tunnel. It's just as good as Ferrari's. How do I know this? Because they use Ferrari's wind tunnel. Now if the FIA allowed the use of full sized wind tunnels, HAAS would have a huge advantage since Gene Haas owns the Windshear facility in Charlotte, probably the best full size rolling road tunnel in the world.
Haas need to get two good drivers in the car, I think the duo of Kevin and Daniel would be amazing!
I would also like to point out Lap 1 mick got 360’d and knocked down about 2-3 places, Ik it was so early in the race but I think that’s what kept him out of points.
Clarification for Mags incident in Spain
Hamilton didn’t crash into Mag
Mag squeezed ham for no reason and screwed over his and Hams race. This mags main problem he takes stupid risks and gets punished heavily.
If he wasn’t so aggressive he would have so many more points
I think it has partially to do with the fact that they stopped developing the car after Hungary
what doesn't help with micks side of the story is HAAS' terrible strategy calls for him, i wont deny micks way off the pace from mag, which I expected, but it doesn't help when the team leaves mick out on full wets when its obviously inters
Mag has had such bad luck with reliability and then he goes off on lap 1
Ok so this is the time where grosjean gets bought by haas now and reunite like in 2020
Shame for Haas. But I am a huge Alfa Fan since it appears. And it looked so promising with Valtteri the first races. But now there's nothing. No points, DNFs. I watched F1 from 1998 to 2010 and rejoined 2018 since today. I am not so much into F1 so would like to know what's going wrong with Alfa
Greetings from germany
All good points, but the 2nd major reason for the dropoff I belive is the Ferrari engine. The reliability sucks, and it cost them a lot of points, and a lot of DNF's and slower finishes also. Same reason that the other Ferrari motor teams dropped off a cliff.
There were multiple good chances for points after Austria, most notable for me was Zandvoort. That pitstop ruined what was one of Micks strongest weekends, maybe even the strongest. Left his teammate in the dust that weekend. Singapore should have been a chance too, Kevins relationship with that flag that only applies to him and nobody else seemingly ruined the best chance, don't think Mick had good enough of a quali for that. And then also Japan. What the actual shit did they do to Mick. He could have easily scored points if they didn't give him the 2nd driver treatment that day and actually pitted him first like you should with the driver who is AHEAD of the other. Even if the car dropped off, the team really manages to get in the way of itself and sabotaging their drivers. The fact Kevin only scored in Austin because of a strategy gamble that was initiated by him (Mick had too much damage for that strategy sadly, that Alonso-Stroll moment ruined his day and potentially double points) says everything to me. A good team can offer good strategies to their drivers. But if only the drivers can manage to do this, then there is an issue.
Opinions in this video on par with Paul Di resta.
10/10 ad segue
Nah, it's still same HAAS.
Strong in early season, then fall off at end of season.
Nothing changed.
Every day on my way to work a Haas F1 Team van passes me on the expressway going the other direction. I know they have a US base in North Carolina but I live in Michigan, over 600 miles away. I find myself wanting to flag the driver down and ask what they're doing.
Mick was hit by ocon in the first race
sudi he fucked it
Fortunately for Haas, Latifi is still driving for last with Williams in 2022.
Haas dropped Mazepin and he was the ball
Haas does have American ties do they could have used the same livery with the red white and blue.
they need to give mick to a better team
Absolutely not. Causes too much money in damage for any of the bottom 3 or 4 teams and is too slow for anyone better.
@@user-ck7jv1hn8k *Pastor Maldonado has started his own F1 team*
They'll still one of the slowest teams because they can't find any sponsors + no one wants to sponsor a slow team
even if mick didn't have those crashes Haas were still gonna fall off a cliff
Haas cars just seem to just split apart easily
Zero upgrades, very apparent that Haas does not have deep enough pockets to play.
This season has shown that Haas has absolutely no consistency.. w the car, the strategies, etc
Same for alfa sauber
Love how everyone's calling them Sauber again now it's confirmed the Alfa Romeo partnership is out the window soon
haas has been hurt significantly by schumacher wrecking cars. when you have a limited budget already less than the cost cap every dollar matters and they used millions on fixing schumachers cars... wihtout thoise wrecks i think the development of the haas wouldve gone further.
I’m pretty sure mick could pay the crash damage if needed
I don’t understand why they can’t get sponsors. I know they’re a low tier team but they’re the only American team in a sport that’s totally blowing up in America. Even low tier nascar drivers get better sponsors
I really wish haas wasn't the only american team in the game. Like, we get penske or ganassi into the ring? I bet they could get some real shit done.
Ha, none of those minor national series runners have the cash to play in F1.
Looks like every team with a Ferrari PU fell off.
while I'm not a Mazepin fan nor am I trying to defend him, he did finish in 5th in the 2019 F2 season. While there were more deserving drivers than him I do think you were a bit harsh on him this video. TBF he probably isn't good enough for F1
Aston On Steroids 🤐
How did that happen 💀?
so its simple. haas have to hire riccardo
Danny doesn't seem inclined to race for backmarker teams. Either way, Hulkenberg will give them about the same but much cheaper.
but he ain't crash
7 mins to lead up to the title of the video. wooofy
Don't forget what business Gene is in. "...best equipment..."
So tl:dr they didn't drop off it's just that everyone else below them at the start caught up.
It happened to brawn GP at 09 too, no cash to upgrade car RBR caught up but Jenson held on for the title because of his giant point cushion at the start of the year.
1:28 Ukraine knew what they were doing when they bombarding countries that Russia find a military treaty with & Nato knew what they were doing when they refused to negotiate* with Russia my Stants is similar to that of Bernie Ecclestone
What are you talking about? What countries was Ukraine "bombarding"? And what in the world was NATO supposed to negotiate with Russia about?
mick is an absolute joke when it comes to DNF and damaging the car
the bullshit black and orange flags magnussen has gotten costed Haas so much points
I am a Mick fan but if I was Guenther Steiner I would go and sign someone else. The 3 options for me would me would be Daniel Riccardo if he has any interest, Hulkenburg I think him and Kevin can move on and be better, but if they want someone young then Felipe Drugovich F2 champ and has the potential to become a diamond in a rough.
Hulkenberg is washed up and only has a couple years of any sort of relevance. They would be doing themselves a disservice to not sign someone who is continually improving and has better race pace overall from their ‘team leader’ teammate
It's not the fault of Gene Haas? Of course it is. He and his billion Dollar company could easily afford to operate at the cost cap, he just doesn't want to. Haas F1 Team probably also could get steep discounts of Haas Automation machinery if Gene wanted to.
Considering that Haas have the same budget as me in university (3 dollar), i'm not very surprised they fell off