I bought the Mach 6 two weeks ago, and even though I have the Superblast 2 in my rotation, the Hoka brought back the joy of running. It's amazing how fun the shoes are. I like that they have enough cushion and low drop, and at the same time, you're able to feel the terrain to a certain degree. Perfect shoes for my preference.
Interesting... I currently use Mach 6s as my daily @ 220 miles now and have a SB2 on order. I can only have one shoe (one bag traveller) and typically run 4 miles daily with an occasional long run. Should I cancel the SB2 and get another 6? I really love them, but been caught up w/ the SB mania and can't seem to get a clear read on whether or not they're a waste if you're only using them for shorter runs.
I recently found Saucony Tempus, not the same feeling as a Kinvara, but I really appreciate how it helps with slight pronation without the feeling of forcing the foot into a particular pattern
Matt - you may remember a very long chat when i reacted with a strong challenge to one of your vlogs - re Newton = the best super shoe for slow running. My challenge was related to the danger of carbon taking over. I mentioned that Patrick Lange had been interviewed and specifically advise us not to overtrain in super shoes; i mentioned Lucy Charles training in Asics Kayano Matt supported the theory - and it went into a long conversation. I tried to be Scientific - but i got got trolled and had to delete the thread. I was told i was an idiot and that after millions of these carbon shoes had been worn its all Bulls..... But even last week from Tom Evans - poster boy for Trail for Adidas - who won Western States in the Adidas Agravex Ultra - the plated option (fantastic shoe BTW) - said he does not train in them - he uses the non plated version! I feel vindicated by this vlog - thanks! I feel as well as that i personally lost leg strength through 100% use of carbon. Great Vlog guys; pieces like this are your value add - compared to the hustlers out there who earn more money right now in terms of paid influencing - than elite athletes out there - and thanks for clarifying my gut feel that the Asics Super Blast - in the context of this discussion - is the same a s a plated trainer! Craig
well I have come to the conclusion carbon plated shoes and very stiff versions of those then i get foot pain, ball of foot fat pad bruising type symptoms and pain at back of the toes... retired two almost new pairs as cant risk and injury at 53yrs old, we dont heal as quick LOL.
Jordan Donnelly - head of athlete innovation at ON running has stated ( not representing ON running ) on the inside running podcast that he believes carbon should exclusively be used on race day and adds unnecessary strain on the body when used in daily training
On the REBELv4 I noticed overall arch support to be too high(tall) for my foot. First easy run on em felt great until i hit mile 5 and began feeling sore arches. My arch is considered standard-to-high per Specialized BG bike fit and common waterprint tests. Also I've maintained a 10+ shoe rotation for the past five years including mostly mid-to-upper tier from: Altra, Salomon, Sacony, Hoka, and Mostly NewBalance all with no arch issues. So I am surprised to have an issue with the Rebel v4. Any thoughts Doctorsofrunning? Note: i have mainly been using the EnorphinSpeed3 as daily trainer(easy-to-tempos) and was hoping the Rebel would be a good replacement after dismissing my Speed4 demo for having an uncomfortable tongue and its noticeable 8mm drop that didnt flow as well with my footstrike as the Speed3 did. Like the Video Topic!!!+++
Noosa is being to me what Adizero SL2 could not be in different aspects. The worse, SL2 caused me ankles and knees pain in every run. To me, Noosa 16 (my first noosa ever), is working better and is an excelent intermediate daily trainner.
I bought Mach 6 today and went half size up compared to the Mach 5. Even the wide Mach 6 is snug. Bought the Mach 6 at an independent running shop in Bangkok, Runnercart. The owner said he prefers the Rincon 4 for his daily up to 10km running as he prepares for trail running. Really like the Cyclone 2, just started wearing the Rebel v4. Keep up the great videos.
Adizero SL2 and Puma Veloctiy Nitro 3 both work great for me as non-plated speedies as well. Those two along with Topo Cylcone 2 and newest one on the block Hyperion 2 make a great speed-daily trainer rotation.
Great topic! After listening to you guys for the past few months I’ve really thought through the plated and non-plated shoe rotation. I personally rotate in and out of plated shoes for workouts. When a workout intensity changes from one segment to the next, I’ll bring back a plated shoe for that session. then during the rest of the faster workouts in the segment, I’ll make my way into more of a daily trainer for those faster sessions.
I have switched back to peg 36 and beacon for daily trainer, Reebok floatride run fast for speed workout, and kayano 30 for LSD. For marathon pace long run i will use the superblast.
I’m curious if my thought process is valid… I’ve started doing all my easy runs and short recovery runs in a low stack, non-plated shoe (Topo Cyclone 2) and my long runs in a high stack shoe (Novablast 4). The thought is that in easy and recovery runs, you are moving much slower and able to focus on form to maximise economy gains/improvement. The long run I need the stack for protection over distance. I know that on recovery runs, people say they want soft/protective shoes, but I find that I’m moving slow enough that a lower stack shoe provides enough protection and encourages me to have a higher cadence with softer landings which acts as natural “protection”.
Hyperion 2 GTS purchaser too, because the H2 neutral outsole looked too stripped back for me for something unplated. Whereas the Hyperion 1 neutral (which I also own) had as much medial side outsole coverage as what 2 GTS gets here. H1 was very firm best for compacted gravel or the track, this new one seems a lot softer suitable for getting 10-15km runs out on harder surfaces.
Missing Adidas Adizero SL2, one of the best value in performance trainers this year and Nike Pegasus Plus (aka Pegasus Turbo re-incarnated) with all ZoomX midsole should be on this list! How about Saucony Sinister and HOKA Cielo Road? I think they are worth considering too.
I used to run 80 mpw on the roads in a pair of Saucony Kilkennys. The Original Kilkenny was very comfortable. Glad to know I was a trailblazer. But running in the Asics Speed 3 does make high mileage easier.
A shoe that I loved that was recommended by you guys, that fits this category, was the Asics Tartheredge 2. Which is unfortunately no longer around. Very light, at 12mm forefoot and 24mm heel. Was my speed day, workout for many years. Though I also used it for 6 mile runs as part of my rotation.
This was a nice episode. I want to add an unlisted addition here though - the Pegasus Plus that just released from Nike has actually replaced both my Magic Speed 3 and Nimbus 26. The Peg Plus is seriously good enough slow to feel comfortable and soft while still being much more bouncy than Nimbus, and at the same time it handles speed like a pro, and doesn't make me feel disadvantaged at all at pace compared to my Magic Speed 3. My Adidas Ultraboost 22 went out the door to highest bidder in the same round. So they've replaced 3 shoes for me, no plate needed. Would love to hear thoughts on the Peg Plus from you all someday soon. Thanks for all the great commentary and especially the evidence-based articles that makes recommendations much easier to make out in the real world.
It's really informative. I do have one question: how does the shoe's responsiveness perform when you're a heavy runner? I'm on the heavier side, roughly 190 pounds, and I've experienced that a bit more cushioning tends to work better for me. Unfortunately, finding a shoe that fits your body mechanics is something everyone has to figure out for themselves. I was hoping you guys could share your take on this subject in one of your future episodes.
Iv tried using non plated shoes for work out but because there all much lower stacks then I’m used to I get injured (knee) so basically I have to use super shoes unless anyone know a higher stack non plated shoe that isn’t firm
Best shoe ever is Saucony Sinister, which I only discovered because of You. They are super fast and still protects legs. I don't understand why no one uses them. They are better than any carbon super shoe. Sinister have 25mm stack so they don't need plate to stiffen it up.
Does it make sense to make both my training shoes the lower-stack types (I'm currently in the Ride 17, and was thinking of adding the Kinvara 15 or Mach 6), then going to a plated racer for 5Ks?
I noticed the time stamps seemed to drift on UA-cam videos. Anyways, I’m really considering getting the Li-Ning Superlight 21 as my training shoe. I also have the XTEP 260X, which has a plate but the plate is T400 which isn’t really stiff. Felt pretty “normal” on feet.
Do you think you can have a similar disadvantage if you train routinely in super shoes and then race in spikes or is that situation different because the two feel different?
would the endorphin speed 4 or hyperion max 2 be considered a super shoe that could hinder my fitness? or should i try doing a speed workout in my ghost 16 every other week? lol
Every once in a while I'll break out the ride 16 for some short workouts or runs under 8 miles. It's just a simple light bouncey trainer that I get good turn over . Plus I got it on Amazon for $60 bucks 5 months ago. I didn't buy the 17s because I wanted more specific purpose shoes. If it drops in price next year I might look at it but the weight turned me off. Miss the Triumph 21s, that's my work horse.
I hope the running shoe companies are taking note. I agree that plates should only be for racing or occasionally. Or personally, I don't think they should be be used at all. I'm super disappointed that every shoe is also going to super squishy and bouncy. I run so different with all the new shoes. I have been injured a few times because of all the huge changes. Very sad that the NB880v14 changed so much this year. It was my go-to for 10mm stack (need it for my Achilles and one ankle has limited mobility) and firmer foam. I like a shoe that I can go easy in and still be able to pick up the pace. The new rocker design may be more efficient for some but it causes me to run too fast during easy runs and gives me hip flexor issues when trying to run fast. My body misses the old designs. Really doesn't make sense that NB changed the 880 because they already have the 1080 for those who like squish and lower drop. Guess I'll have to try Brooks Ghost 🤷♀️
@@chapchappington2475 lol I'm not, I think people should run in whatever will make them enjoy their run. It's just annoying that the main way to find a daily trainer without a crazy amount of stack or a plate in it is by getting a shoe that's used and made before 2020 since racing shoes now have more stack than trainers did 5+ years ago.
My workout shoe is the Skechers Razor 4. Has a forefoot plate but still a great lightweight shoe. Also would Atreyu Base Model/ Daily Trainer be good workout shoes?
I think I'm one of those people that do not respond very well to rigid plated shoes. Not in terms of speed though. I have the Puma Deviate Nitro Elite v1 now as my racing shoe, and I got all my PBs in them. However, I only use them very rarely, only on race days and 3-4 workouts leading to these races. It's because after using a shoe this rigid, I always get these niggles in the base of my foot. Not sure if it's plantar or something else, but it is in that area. If I use them too often, say like 1 or 2 times per week for like 3 weeks or more, I think I'd injured myself. Maybe because I'm a bit overpronate, I don't know. I've run since 2011 and never use stability shoes. I like flexible shoes and I rarely injured. My first full marathon was in 2019 and I used the Skechers Razor 3, which I absolutely loved. Quite sad I think they messed up with the Razor 4. The Puma is the first 'carbon' plated shoe I've bought.. and not doing so well despite I can go fast in them. I've owned the saucony endorphin speed 2, and I love them. Now I also use the Boston 12 for my long runs, and it works well. So, seems like my problem is only with carbon plated shoes, but not with the more flexible plates/rods. maybe also because I run more in flexible shoes. My current rotation now are the Kinvara 13 for workouts/fartleks (but sometimes also easy runs), Boston 12 for longruns, and Triumph 20 plus a barefoot sandal for my daily runs. From this list, my favorites are the barefoot sandal and Kinvara 13. by the way, quite surprised you guys did not mention the Adidas Adizero SL2 into your list of non-plated workout shoes. We have many options in this category now, I'm confused about which one to choose after my Kinvara 13 retires..😅
I recently picked up the Hyperion 2. I really love the lightness and the feeling of the foam, but the entire length of my foot feels like it's sitting over to the medial side of the shoe and it's killing my ankles. It feels like the shoe is compressing at an angle the entire time, like I just cannot sit my foot in the centre of the shoe. I can force my foot over to the centre, but as soon as I start moving I'm back to sitting on the inside edge. I'm not rolling inward, I just sit on the medial side the whole time. I find it pretty much unusable. I note that David actually prefers the GTS version. Difficult question I know, but does my issue sound like something the GTS version could potentially solve? I was completely fine in the original Hyperion Max.
I'm curious to know if you guys would consider the Speedboard that has been present in almost all On shoes as a plate or not? I really like On shoes and have used them almost exclusively for the last six years or so. However, this year I have tried a couple of other brands' daily trainers and have sometimes experienced discomfort in my sole/arch after running 8 miles or more in the non-On shoes. I wondered if this was because my feet had become weakened by the presence of the Speedboard...
Great options! I was thinking about the hyperion 2 or the pegasus plus, what do you recommend? do you think they are good as a track/fartlek/hills shoe?( i am a 800/1500m track high schooler)
Hey I run in college, I just got the Pegasus plus bc I used to run in the old turbos and they’re very versatile. They can handle every run. Fartlek, tempos, easy and long runs. I heard the Hyperion 2s are good for track work but probably not the best for daily runs. Nike streakflys are also a really good option, better than peg plus for workouts and can go the distance. I’d go for zoomx, it helps with some recovery but I know Nike shoes are more expensive
@@samsonselleck3057 thanks, though I don’t need an easy/cushioned shoe as I already have one in the rotation. Are the Pegasus plus good for track work?
I noticed the time stamps seemed to drift on UA-cam videos. Anyways, I’m really considering getting the Li-Ning Superlight 21 as my training shoe. I also have the XTEP 260X, which has a plate but the plate is T400 which isn’t really stiff. Felt pretty “normal” on feet.
I bought the Mach 6 two weeks ago, and even though I have the Superblast 2 in my rotation, the Hoka brought back the joy of running. It's amazing how fun the shoes are. I like that they have enough cushion and low drop, and at the same time, you're able to feel the terrain to a certain degree. Perfect shoes for my preference.
Interesting... I currently use Mach 6s as my daily @ 220 miles now and have a SB2 on order. I can only have one shoe (one bag traveller) and typically run 4 miles daily with an occasional long run. Should I cancel the SB2 and get another 6? I really love them, but been caught up w/ the SB mania and can't seem to get a clear read on whether or not they're a waste if you're only using them for shorter runs.
I recently found Saucony Tempus, not the same feeling as a Kinvara, but I really appreciate how it helps with slight pronation without the feeling of forcing the foot into a particular pattern
Matt - you may remember a very long chat when i reacted with a strong challenge to one of your vlogs - re Newton = the best super shoe for slow running. My challenge was related to the danger of carbon taking over. I mentioned that Patrick Lange had been interviewed and specifically advise us not to overtrain in super shoes; i mentioned Lucy Charles training in Asics Kayano Matt supported the theory - and it went into a long conversation. I tried to be Scientific - but i got got trolled and had to delete the thread. I was told i was an idiot and that after millions of these carbon shoes had been worn its all Bulls..... But even last week from Tom Evans - poster boy for Trail for Adidas - who won Western States in the Adidas Agravex Ultra - the plated option (fantastic shoe BTW) - said he does not train in them - he uses the non plated version! I feel vindicated by this vlog - thanks! I feel as well as that i personally lost leg strength through 100% use of carbon.
Great Vlog guys; pieces like this are your value add - compared to the hustlers out there who earn more money right now in terms of paid influencing - than elite athletes out there - and thanks for clarifying my gut feel that the Asics Super Blast - in the context of this discussion - is the same a s a plated trainer!
Craig
well I have come to the conclusion carbon plated shoes and very stiff versions of those then i get foot pain, ball of foot fat pad bruising type symptoms and pain at back of the toes... retired two almost new pairs as cant risk and injury at 53yrs old, we dont heal as quick LOL.
Jordan Donnelly - head of athlete innovation at ON running has stated ( not representing ON running ) on the inside running podcast that he believes carbon should exclusively be used on race day and adds unnecessary strain on the body when used in daily training
On the REBELv4 I noticed overall arch support to be too high(tall) for my foot. First easy run on em felt great until i hit mile 5 and began feeling sore arches. My arch is considered standard-to-high per Specialized BG bike fit and common waterprint tests. Also I've maintained a 10+ shoe rotation for the past five years including mostly mid-to-upper tier from: Altra, Salomon, Sacony, Hoka, and Mostly NewBalance all with no arch issues. So I am surprised to have an issue with the Rebel v4.
Any thoughts Doctorsofrunning?
Note: i have mainly been using the EnorphinSpeed3 as daily trainer(easy-to-tempos) and was hoping the Rebel would be a good replacement after dismissing my Speed4 demo for having an uncomfortable tongue and its noticeable 8mm drop that didnt flow as well with my footstrike as the Speed3 did.
Like the Video Topic!!!+++
Noosa is being to me what Adizero SL2 could not be in different aspects. The worse, SL2 caused me ankles and knees pain in every run. To me, Noosa 16 (my first noosa ever), is working better and is an excelent intermediate daily trainner.
I bought Mach 6 today and went half size up compared to the Mach 5. Even the wide Mach 6 is snug.
Bought the Mach 6 at an independent running shop in Bangkok, Runnercart. The owner said he prefers the Rincon 4 for his daily up to 10km running as he prepares for trail running.
Really like the Cyclone 2, just started wearing the Rebel v4.
Keep up the great videos.
why are you in Bangkok? that's so far from the US
Adizero SL2 and Puma Veloctiy Nitro 3 both work great for me as non-plated speedies as well. Those two along with Topo Cylcone 2 and newest one on the block Hyperion 2 make a great speed-daily trainer rotation.
I am now buying old shoes from classifieds - older Streaks, Adios(1-5), Takumi Sen, Ren - up to 7, ADizero Sub2, Tempo 5
I’ve been using Rebel v4 as my workout shoe for the last 5 weeks, starting to see benefits of ditching the carbons for training!
Great content as usual. Very helpful stuff. Keep up the good work.
I love the Brooks Hyperion Max 2. It’s wonderful for heavier runners. It has a plastic plate, but I don’t imagine it does much.
Great topic! After listening to you guys for the past few months I’ve really thought through the plated and non-plated shoe rotation. I personally rotate in and out of plated shoes for workouts. When a workout intensity changes from one segment to the next, I’ll bring back a plated shoe for that session. then during the rest of the faster workouts in the segment, I’ll make my way into more of a daily trainer for those faster sessions.
I have switched back to peg 36 and beacon for daily trainer, Reebok floatride run fast for speed workout, and kayano 30 for LSD. For marathon pace long run i will use the superblast.
Would the torsion system of the Adidas adios 8 count as a plate? Otherwise, it's also a great option...
I’m curious if my thought process is valid… I’ve started doing all my easy runs and short recovery runs in a low stack, non-plated shoe (Topo Cyclone 2) and my long runs in a high stack shoe (Novablast 4). The thought is that in easy and recovery runs, you are moving much slower and able to focus on form to maximise economy gains/improvement. The long run I need the stack for protection over distance. I know that on recovery runs, people say they want soft/protective shoes, but I find that I’m moving slow enough that a lower stack shoe provides enough protection and encourages me to have a higher cadence with softer landings which acts as natural “protection”.
Hyperion 2 GTS purchaser too, because the H2 neutral outsole looked too stripped back for me for something unplated. Whereas the Hyperion 1 neutral (which I also own) had as much medial side outsole coverage as what 2 GTS gets here. H1 was very firm best for compacted gravel or the track, this new one seems a lot softer suitable for getting 10-15km runs out on harder surfaces.
Missing Adidas Adizero SL2, one of the best value in performance trainers this year and Nike Pegasus Plus (aka Pegasus Turbo re-incarnated) with all ZoomX midsole should be on this list! How about Saucony Sinister and HOKA Cielo Road? I think they are worth considering too.
I like the rebel 4 but added move running insoles to protect my heel
I used to run 80 mpw on the roads in a pair of Saucony Kilkennys. The Original Kilkenny was very comfortable. Glad to know I was a trailblazer. But running in the Asics Speed 3 does make high mileage easier.
Superb discussion 👏🏻
What about nylon plated shoes? Like an Endorphin Speed, would these have the same sort of concerns as a carbon plated shoe?
A shoe that I loved that was recommended by you guys, that fits this category, was the Asics Tartheredge 2. Which is unfortunately no longer around. Very light, at 12mm forefoot and 24mm heel. Was my speed day, workout for many years. Though I also used it for 6 mile runs as part of my rotation.
Is a nylon plated shoe considered a super shoe? I tend to rotate endorphin speed and pro and race in elites.
Do Adios 8s count?
I wish you guys included the Cielo Road! I think it’s a better shoe than the Topo cyclone 2 for the same use cases imo
This was a nice episode. I want to add an unlisted addition here though - the Pegasus Plus that just released from Nike has actually replaced both my Magic Speed 3 and Nimbus 26. The Peg Plus is seriously good enough slow to feel comfortable and soft while still being much more bouncy than Nimbus, and at the same time it handles speed like a pro, and doesn't make me feel disadvantaged at all at pace compared to my Magic Speed 3. My Adidas Ultraboost 22 went out the door to highest bidder in the same round. So they've replaced 3 shoes for me, no plate needed. Would love to hear thoughts on the Peg Plus from you all someday soon.
Thanks for all the great commentary and especially the evidence-based articles that makes recommendations much easier to make out in the real world.
We’re testing the plus soon! Excited.
My favorite non-plated workout shoe is the Nike streakflys
Curious why the ASICS GT-2000 13 didn’t make it. David seems to use them often.
It's really informative. I do have one question: how does the shoe's responsiveness perform when you're a heavy runner? I'm on the heavier side, roughly 190 pounds, and I've experienced that a bit more cushioning tends to work better for me. Unfortunately, finding a shoe that fits your body mechanics is something everyone has to figure out for themselves. I was hoping you guys could share your take on this subject in one of your future episodes.
Iv tried using non plated shoes for work out but because there all much lower stacks then I’m used to I get injured (knee)
so basically I have to use super shoes unless anyone know a higher stack non plated shoe that isn’t firm
Are you able to do a topic about daily,tempo,race day, etc shoes for heavy runners?
Q. do you find plates are less of a issue for heavy runners? example 65/70kg vs 80kg+
Best shoe ever is Saucony Sinister, which I only discovered because of You. They are super fast and still protects legs. I don't understand why no one uses them. They are better than any carbon super shoe. Sinister have 25mm stack so they don't need plate to stiffen it up.
I did, until the upper started disintegrating
Because everyone is different.!
The Sinister is quite flexible, about as flexible as Rebel v3 from my hands on comparison.
Love my sinister just which they had more colors lol
Wish they were available in Canada. Actually contacted Saucony about it. Seems there’s no market here😢
Tons of people go 1/2 size up in the Mach 6, including myself. IMO it's simply 1/2 size small.
Noosa 16 was fast for me. Mach 6 was slow. Maybe it's the geometry.
Is the Ride 17 like a successor of Triumph 19? They look alike a lot from the specs.
Does it make sense to make both my training shoes the lower-stack types (I'm currently in the Ride 17, and was thinking of adding the Kinvara 15 or Mach 6), then going to a plated racer for 5Ks?
I noticed the time stamps seemed to drift on UA-cam videos.
Anyways, I’m really considering getting the Li-Ning Superlight 21 as my training shoe. I also have the XTEP 260X, which has a plate but the plate is T400 which isn’t really stiff. Felt pretty “normal” on feet.
Do you think you can have a similar disadvantage if you train routinely in super shoes and then race in spikes or is that situation different because the two feel different?
When a shoe "bottoms out" does the foam actually change due to the prolonged compression or is your body just starting to fatigue?
Hey guys - do you have a link to the study you mentioned at 3:28 please?
would the endorphin speed 4 or hyperion max 2 be considered a super shoe that could hinder my fitness? or should i try doing a speed workout in my ghost 16 every other week? lol
Every once in a while I'll break out the ride 16 for some short workouts or runs under 8 miles. It's just a simple light bouncey trainer that I get good turn over . Plus I got it on Amazon for $60 bucks 5 months ago. I didn't buy the 17s because I wanted more specific purpose shoes. If it drops in price next year I might look at it but the weight turned me off. Miss the Triumph 21s, that's my work horse.
19:36 The Noosa Tri 16 deserves a video review, it got pretty amazing ratings in your written review.
Alphafly 3 better
@@aSkibidiRunnerdifferent type of shoe
@@aristodiga82 both workout shoe
@@aSkibidiRunner LMAO nice name 😂
@@PatrickStar_24 thanks
There is a podcast/video about the best super trainers? One pair of running shoes that you can pack for vacations and do it all.
I hope the running shoe companies are taking note. I agree that plates should only be for racing or occasionally. Or personally, I don't think they should be be used at all. I'm super disappointed that every shoe is also going to super squishy and bouncy. I run so different with all the new shoes. I have been injured a few times because of all the huge changes. Very sad that the NB880v14 changed so much this year. It was my go-to for 10mm stack (need it for my Achilles and one ankle has limited mobility) and firmer foam. I like a shoe that I can go easy in and still be able to pick up the pace. The new rocker design may be more efficient for some but it causes me to run too fast during easy runs and gives me hip flexor issues when trying to run fast. My body misses the old designs. Really doesn't make sense that NB changed the 880 because they already have the 1080 for those who like squish and lower drop. Guess I'll have to try Brooks Ghost 🤷♀️
I miss when the Kinvara was still a daily trainer and runners didn't need 45mm of stack to get through a normal run
Stop gate keeping running. Don’t worry about what other runners are doing.
@@chapchappington2475 lol I'm not, I think people should run in whatever will make them enjoy their run. It's just annoying that the main way to find a daily trainer without a crazy amount of stack or a plate in it is by getting a shoe that's used and made before 2020 since racing shoes now have more stack than trainers did 5+ years ago.
you can still use the kinvara as a daily trainer. I know I am. Still using my Kinvara 13 now
I've needed 45mm of stack for 33 years but it hadn't been invented!
My workout shoe is the Skechers Razor 4. Has a forefoot plate but still a great lightweight shoe. Also would Atreyu Base Model/ Daily Trainer be good workout shoes?
PLEASE name the shoe on air that casued an injury ?
I think I'm one of those people that do not respond very well to rigid plated shoes.
Not in terms of speed though. I have the Puma Deviate Nitro Elite v1 now as my racing shoe, and I got all my PBs in them. However, I only use them very rarely, only on race days and 3-4 workouts leading to these races. It's because after using a shoe this rigid, I always get these niggles in the base of my foot. Not sure if it's plantar or something else, but it is in that area. If I use them too often, say like 1 or 2 times per week for like 3 weeks or more, I think I'd injured myself.
Maybe because I'm a bit overpronate, I don't know. I've run since 2011 and never use stability shoes. I like flexible shoes and I rarely injured. My first full marathon was in 2019 and I used the Skechers Razor 3, which I absolutely loved. Quite sad I think they messed up with the Razor 4.
The Puma is the first 'carbon' plated shoe I've bought.. and not doing so well despite I can go fast in them.
I've owned the saucony endorphin speed 2, and I love them. Now I also use the Boston 12 for my long runs, and it works well. So, seems like my problem is only with carbon plated shoes, but not with the more flexible plates/rods.
maybe also because I run more in flexible shoes. My current rotation now are the Kinvara 13 for workouts/fartleks (but sometimes also easy runs), Boston 12 for longruns, and Triumph 20 plus a barefoot sandal for my daily runs. From this list, my favorites are the barefoot sandal and Kinvara 13.
by the way, quite surprised you guys did not mention the Adidas Adizero SL2 into your list of non-plated workout shoes.
We have many options in this category now, I'm confused about which one to choose after my Kinvara 13 retires..😅
I recently picked up the Hyperion 2. I really love the lightness and the feeling of the foam, but the entire length of my foot feels like it's sitting over to the medial side of the shoe and it's killing my ankles. It feels like the shoe is compressing at an angle the entire time, like I just cannot sit my foot in the centre of the shoe. I can force my foot over to the centre, but as soon as I start moving I'm back to sitting on the inside edge. I'm not rolling inward, I just sit on the medial side the whole time. I find it pretty much unusable.
I note that David actually prefers the GTS version. Difficult question I know, but does my issue sound like something the GTS version could potentially solve? I was completely fine in the original Hyperion Max.
I'm curious to know if you guys would consider the Speedboard that has been present in almost all On shoes as a plate or not?
I really like On shoes and have used them almost exclusively for the last six years or so. However, this year I have tried a couple of other brands' daily trainers and have sometimes experienced discomfort in my sole/arch after running 8 miles or more in the non-On shoes. I wondered if this was because my feet had become weakened by the presence of the Speedboard...
No Superblast 2!?
what are the shoes behind Matt?
Xtep 160x 3.0 pro . Able to last for 1000kms as what the brand says . Got a 17:31 5k pbs in this , by far outclass the vf3 imo
David, you can name that shoe that hurt your foot on air. It was the Balos. 😂
Is it really?! Where did he mention it and did he say why? I'm actually looking at that right now lol
@@antihero5518 it’s on their written review on their website.
Great options! I was thinking about the hyperion 2 or the pegasus plus, what do you recommend? do you think they are good as a track/fartlek/hills shoe?( i am a 800/1500m track high schooler)
Hey I run in college, I just got the Pegasus plus bc I used to run in the old turbos and they’re very versatile. They can handle every run. Fartlek, tempos, easy and long runs. I heard the Hyperion 2s are good for track work but probably not the best for daily runs. Nike streakflys are also a really good option, better than peg plus for workouts and can go the distance. I’d go for zoomx, it helps with some recovery but I know Nike shoes are more expensive
@@samsonselleck3057 thanks, though I don’t need an easy/cushioned shoe as I already have one in the rotation. Are the Pegasus plus good for track work?
@@samsonselleck3057 thanks, though i don’t need something for easy/long runs.
do you think the peg plus would be good for track repeats?
Plated shoes are great for racing- probably. But training in them is not a good deal.
No Superblast 2? 👀
it's not really a tempo shoe, its a long run shoe
22:00
Alphafly 3 best workout shoe
wHy No PlAtE?!?!
Fuck the disclaimers
There isn't any more important opinion or criticism to your audience than the shoe that hurt you. Please reveal.
I noticed the time stamps seemed to drift on UA-cam videos.
Anyways, I’m really considering getting the Li-Ning Superlight 21 as my training shoe. I also have the XTEP 260X, which has a plate but the plate is T400 which isn’t really stiff. Felt pretty “normal” on feet.