Total War Warhammer 40K - Leaks and Spitballing
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- Опубліковано 27 тра 2024
- On this week’s episode, Brad and Eric lay back and talk about one of the games that brought them to Warhammer: the Total War series and all the rumors that surround the possible upcoming Warhammer 40K Total War.
POORHAMMER MERCH! orchideight.com/collections/p...
SHOW LINKS:
Website: poorhammer.libsyn.com/
Patreon: / solelysingleton
Brad’s Twitter: / drruler
Eric’s Twitter: / onekuosora
Horde Mode Beta Documentation: tinyurl.com/5fs3jr44
Horde Mode Discord: / discord
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Intro
00:50 - Origin of the Leaks
02:48 - What is the Total War Series
04:46 - Total War and Warhmmer (so far)
06:43 - Total War Warhammer 1 Recap
09:40 - Total War Warhammer 2 Recap
13:31 - How do they handle DLCs
14:44 - Total War Warhammer 3 Recap
18:24 - Expected Release Schedule
20:46 - Expectations for the Map
21:56 - Surprise, Tierlist episode
25:39 - How will they handle Space Marine Chapters?
27:15 - Tyranid lore saved?
28:18 - Guessing the Factions for each game
42:46 - Back to the Campaign Map
47:19 - Dealing with the Fanbase
51:39 - Final Thoughts
Licensed Music Used By This Program:
“Night Out” by LiQWYD, CC BY
“Thursday & Snow (Reprise)” by Blank & Kytt, CC BY
“First Class” by Peyruis, CC BY
“Down for Whatever” by Silent Partner, Copyright Free - Ігри
Having Tyranids as a faction would be hilarious for diplomacy options
Tyranids: Please send us more diplomats.
Everyone Else: You ate the last ones we sent.
Tyranids: Yes-they were delicious. Please send more.
“Greetings Hive Mind Kali! How can we further strengthen the bonds between our factions?”
“Food.”
“Um… any particular sort of food?”
“Food.”
What were the old Nid diplomats called? I think they were Zoats. It would be hilarious to see them make a comeback. Or have diplomacy be done with Genestealer cults or something idk
Genestealer diplomacy victory is just everyone getting eaten by the nids
If you are playing Tyranids all your Dialogueoptions would be >Screeee!
I can’t wait to play my main the Custodes army with a staggering max unit size of 3.
I can't wait to fight 10000000000000000000000 guardsmen with one custodian
Tbf they kinda have that with aspiring champions. Love thpaw fuckin' guys.
i just imagine a stack of characters.
With two of those three being female.
@sebastianbenner977 with female mmorpg-esque boob armor of course
Hear me out: space marines are infinitely customizable and Gorrilaman is a bery safe bet for a Legenday Lord, but what if they let you do the demon prince thing and custom make a chapter master or something? Custom faction colors, symbol, customize his loadoat and such
This is a crackpot idea that I absolutely adore, although it gets into the slippery slope of "will this be available for every faction to make my own warboss, overlord, chaos lord, etc"
@@ryanmurray6269 I kind of wish it would be. Like one custom lord per faction that's not necessarily as good as the others but is entirely yours and can be customized to do whatever in your colors.
@@skylermuncy2218 id absolutely adore if they did that, i just know that's gonna be a lot of work and a lot of visual assets needed.
Mechanicus let you change the colors of your robes, very easy way to let people make the army theirs.
my dream scenario for total war 40k is a fully sandbox sector map depicting a random no-name sector and each faction's army can thus be randomly customised each time you play. Like the Chapter Master fangame but for all factions
Also in terms of deamons, they may pull a blood dlc where they say “oh if you own Warhammer 3, you can use the deamons in 40k”
This is something my brother spit balled this weekend when we continued talking about it. TWW3 ownership "reward" to bleed a portion of the "previous games playable in future ones" from fantasy to 40K.
If they do that for Daemons, they might try to do the same with Guard. Release the WW1 game, then use the models in 40kTW. Release it as a DLC that tries to pull in more of the historical audience that picked up the WW1 game
The problem with that is they are working on a new engine, there's very little reason to think that the old stuff would be compatible with it, it was a lot of work to ensure that norsca could be transitioned from warhammer 1 to warhammer 2
@@calebbarnhouse496 Fair, but when they implement demons in the new game they could still give access to the old players
@@HighEffortUsername they could, but I doubt they would unless the metrics tell them that most people that own rhe deamons don't own 40k, only so they can get them to buy the game
The good old Total War Cycle: People get excited for new game, new game has less content than people expect and has a ton of bugs, people get mad, game gets patched and after a year people love the game, next game gets announced, repeat.
40k total war will not launch with more than 5 factions, there won't be any spaceship battles, it will be very buggy on launch and it will run like poop on anything but top of the line hardware. This is not speculation, it's a fact.
Knows creative assemble you'll have ultra marines as THE space marine faction and the cadians as THE guard units and day one or later dlc will unlock other chapters or guard regiments. The game will probably lag like crazy.have some really stupid resources, army limits and you want be able to have armies not led by a general, and ya no space battles because they can't figure out how to do basic naval battles on a 2d plane let alone 3d.
@hdhstarwars2723 in terms of naval battles they could take inspiration from battlefleet gothic
@MrTheGameNarrator I haven't played that game but going off of how ca has tried to do naval battles before its a LONG stretch to think it will be in a total war 40k game and even longer of a stretch to think it will be good.
@@hdhstarwars2723 to be fair, alot of space battle games go the easy way and leave it on a 2D plane, like Battlefleet Gothic: Armada
@@dierare ive never played that game ill take you word for it, but given my experience with ca trying to naval battle id say dont have your hopes up.
Here's a stellar idea: crowdfunding Berillio's Death Guard army
Aren't they doing that? Patreon pays his wages.
@@135forte he keeps saying that he can't get the models in Brazil. It must be a shipping cost issue. I don't know how much anybody makes off of this podcast, I don't assume they're rich just because they have a bunch of people listening to it. Of course, for all I know, it could just be a meme.
Also, he wants an Idoneth army for AoS too
@joelkurowski7129 They are doing well, but at least Eric and Brad are saying that in the context of having real jobs and are referring more to not having to put money into the podcast. Iirc, they Berrilio has another full time job as well, but since you mention it, the Brazil angle probably isn't great for hobby prices.
Now i wanna see the guys play this game
I can see Guard being done in the first game as the default enemies to fight, ie. the role of rebels, and become a playable faction through DLC/FLC
thats probably the PDF
if anything wouldn't the guard make more sence as the lead imps? like Marines don't have the army size
That's what I'm thinking. You do the guard in the first game and they're perfect for chaff factions for both imperial and renegade sides. Renegade would just literally be guard, maybe with some extra spikes and whatnot. Just some extra factions of humans for the xenos/chaos to kill, and some renegade cells for the imperium to squash.
@@Dante45p Well power scaling will probably be more lore accurate like space marine 1
That was also kind of how they worked in the original Dawn of War. They had a few units in the first game that were used in the campaign, but they didn't become a proper playable faction until the first expansion.
I hope they do the Tyranid Campaigns like the Battlefleet Gothica Armada II game did, where instead of hearing the Tyranids "talk" like in DoW II, we get the conversations of the other factions, reacting and planning to the Tyranids making progress, like they're the monster of a horror movie.
Nids just work better that way. I don't want to hear the Swarmlord talk about how much it hates Space Marines or Deathleapers how much it likes to do death and leap. Let me be a proper cosmic horror and eat the map.
Counterpoint, senseless chittering, screeching and screaming.
@@nathanstruble2177 Well, you get that whenever you click a unit anyway, so we'll have it anyways
.
"I hope they do the Tyranid Campaigns like the Battlefleet Gothica Armada II game did," i wouldnt mind how they did so in Devestation of Baal in combination with battlefleet gothic 2
Or have an Observer type narrator like the advisor in warhammer 3.
@@baciu14 It could work, but hearing the enemy leaders and their men shit their pants after you dismantle their troops is so much fun.
- Dark throne defensive perimeter breached ! There are Tyranids on the surface !
- Our phalanxes must hold !
- We are loosing ground !
- Revive all legions at once ! Hold them back !
- This is too late...this is our end...and the end of the Nepheru Dynasty...
"Zooming out into space would be boring." Some people did not play Empire at War and it shows.
Wait, you may be on to something
40k also had Battlefleet Gothic II and that map was pretty good for a sector scale map
Knights/Chaos Knights I could picture as just big units sprinkled into the factions as almost Mercenary units. It would bring in the concept of Freeblades and then be more of a mainstay when Mechanicum become a faction.
White Scars as a roaming DLC faction. Like the Celestine idea would be fun.
They've already got the mercenary system with Ogres at the end of TWW2, not sure if it carried into 3, that could work for Knights. They could also work as heroes (with the purple building that unlocks them adding smaller Knights as standard units), that would allow for a chunk of customisation. Maybe even have them and all the funky Agents of the Imperium as roaming heroes a-la Felix?
There is absolutely no need to make knights a mercenary faction, they would just have there 6 or so units wrapped into other rosters as a baseline unit with the fluff of being technically outside the faction, mercenary recruitment just means its way to easy to emergency recruit them a turn early and have Centerpiece units as your defense
That is the big thing for me that Knights and Agents of the Inquisition just seem like something that all Imperium of Man factions can use. Chaos Knights basically being the same thing for Chaos Spacemarine.
I can already imagine how Busted and Fun Trazyn Campaign would Be since there is no way he is not a legendary lord alongside Fabius bile and Cawl. Could do a pretty interesting DLC .
GET IN THE VAULT
That sounds like one of those unique mechanic campaigns they were talking about. You just go around the map yoinking shit.
@@ashtonhoward5582 you can just steal armies on the map... That would be cool
Trazyn's campaign is kidnapping a bunch of lords from other factions.
Trazyn would definitely have a version of Eltharions sanctum
35:54 I'll have to disagree, saint Celestine most likely will play out like the green knight, a legendary hero character that joins an army but doesn't lead it.
I'd be down for that
I have a feeling knights are definitely going to be tier 5 units for Ad mech
This is my thought. I think we are assuming that they will follow the Warhammer Fantasy model closely, but if they are smart they will be a bit more fluid with the factions, at least for campaign.
I just hope that GW won’t restrict their scheduling and faction selection too much, GW making business sense is like thinking how Ork vehicles work, no matter how you think it’ll work unless your an Ork, it will make no sense
Got some bad news for you - if you hated the release model for TWWH, then you're going to hate the release model for any potential 40k games CA puts out.
CA's monkey management has borderline destroyed the company which is currently being kept on life support by TWWH. Daddy Sega is quite upset with CA, so you can expect them to encourage the doubling down on the TWWH model with future (related) releases. You can basically guarantee three seperate 40k games with hundreds of dollars of DLC - cause 40k fans are kinda massive pay pigs as is.
@@spnked9516 I know you meant money management but the mental image of CA managing a group of chimpanzees is still very funny
@@swamproman2007 That's basically what it was when they were working on that doomed Hyena game
@@arn1345 what hyena game 😶
@@swamproman2007 CA would be better off being managed by a literal troop of chimpanzees. At least the chimps would make a decent, consumer friendly decision every once and a while - even if totally by accident.
Like so many other companies, maximizing shareholder value and DIE have been poisoning decision making and killing CA for years now.
Space Marines Chaos Orkz Eldar is the classic quad of 40k factions
It worked for Dawn of War
Gladius mixed it up with Space Marines, Astra Militarum, Orks and Necrons as the original 4 factions before DLC.
Eldar is just a bad option, eldar are old, arent being pushed, and arent going to be pushed, while not being a popular factuon because of those factors, its pretty realistic that launch is marines, guard, chaos space marines, and orcs, its not unrealistic that by the time the game is over around half the DLC features space marines, and we'll be lucky if they include the only interesting kind of space marine
Thing is when you try and group factions so each game has a big wow thing, you don't put Eldar in Game 1. Game 1 just makes so much sense as the GW basic set up of Imperial Guard, Spacemarine, Chaos Spacemarine, and Ork, with Daemons bolted on due to the work already being over half done. Then Game two you'd have both Eldar and the Tau as your selling point factions. Then Game 3 has the Tyranids and Necrons as their selling point factions.
So Tau instead of Eldar? @@calebbarnhouse496
So, not exactly relevant, but might make a useful point of conparison: how a different company hamdled adapting 40k into an RTS a decade plus earlier.
Relic's Dawn of War series.
The first Dawn of War and it's expansions were done a similar way to how Total Warhammer and it's sequels work, with having previous expansions unlocked the factions added in them as playable in later expansions.
The base game of Dawn of War had a linear campaign with only Space Marines being playable in campaign but with 4 factions featured and all of them being playable in multiplayer. The factions were Space Marines, Orks, Eldar, and Chaos Space Marines.
The first expansion was Winter Assault that added IG. It also had a linear campaign with two playable paths. Order had you playing IG and Eldar, Disorder had you playing Orks and Chaos.
The second expansion was Dark Crusade. It added T'au and Necrons and you could play as any of the available factions in campaign. It had a campaign that had a planet map where you could invade provinces and move your army around the map in a very simplified analogue to Total War.
The final expansion was Soulstorm. It was notable for also being playable as a stand alone not requiring the base Dawn of War to play. It added Sisters and Dark Eldar. It also made the terrible mistake of adding aircraft in an engine that really did not support them. It had an expanded version of the Dark Crusade map campaign where you were fighting over an entire star system instead of just one planet.
THANK YOU!
I'm watching this whole video thinking, "Dawn of War already did this" and was hoping someone else would come to the same conclusion. Granted that CA is handling a completely different animal than Relic was with Dawn of War, but it's still a fun blueprint.
Many mods for Soulstorm added in the various factions and subchapters of different entities in 40k, even though most of them aren't playable in the campaign (which makes me unbelievably sad). They could easily take that route, saving most Space Marine chapters for 3, like Relic choosing to focus on only the Blood Ravens, and thus making them a favorite chapter simply by their existence.
I'd love it if CA tortured people by making them play Ultramarines for 3 games before getting anything else.
My idea for the map would be that each “continent” would be a planet, design wise, but then the “ocean” would be the void. So it’s still one map just different scale.
You could do each solar system in the place of a town and then each planet have a couple of different locations on it. Maybe 3 or 4. You gotta clear the planet of enemy to claim it and you have to hold all the planets in a system to own the system. That would make the map fuckin massive but it could be doable. If they work on their engine.
Some of my ideas:
•Knights exist not as their own faction, but as high tier units accessible to the Imperium/chaos similar to giants and trolls for the greenskins and chaos factions in Total Warhammer
•Custodes function similarly to Ogre mercenaries where they work as temporary extremely elite units for Imperial factions, but for a set amount of time and exorbitant cost
•A “Heroes of the Imperium” faction, that is sort of like the Warriors of Chaos faction in Total Warhammer, where it is made up of Imperial legendary lords that don’t fit elsewhere, like Canis Rex, Trajan Valoris, and Inquisitor Eisenhorn
Honey get up! A new poor hammer episode just dropped!
As if you have even breathed near a woman within the last year
@@ildlyn8966 you’re right about that! Though that might be because I’m gay.
If I had to take a guess for how to handle Space Marine chapters, it'd probably be a good idea to break them down by army leaders. In Total Warhammer, it wasn't just the faction options, but also specific named characters you would pick from to modify army rules a bit. If they also included a couple unique unit options for each leader and then set unit textures specific to the leader's chapter, you could cover all the chapters without too much issue.
And of course chapters that need more development time for more robust model changes would be dlc (space wolves for example)
I hope they use Total40k to expand on the Exodites and maybe the Other Xenos factions, like the Rangdan ,Tau and the dog soldiers.
I prefer TotalWartyK
They won't, its a crossover made entirely to cash out on 40k, it will be what GW wants, which is space marine DLCs with everyone else being an afterthought, its not at all unrealistic that all eldar are in the same faction, and we get mini race packs in the form of space marine chapters, they add 2 legendary lords for them, make a like 5 units for them to have to themselves modify building chains and a few unique mechanics and people will be creaming because there favorite color paint space marine is going to exist
@@calebbarnhouse496 Well while CA is greedy, its nowhere near as much as GW . And while what you says migth be true on certain points , they are expanding the lore of the lesser developped factions troughs their games, faction that would never sée any love from GW. For example the vampire coast,the witches covens,the chaos dwarves and even nippon whoes will likely be a DLC in the future.
They are currently giving the Old World more love and praise than when GW handled it. I just Hope they will be able to do the same with 40k cause if GW isn 't willing to Give lore to anything other than a Space Marine CA will do it themselves
@@doragonzx duh, but the difference is the reason warhammer fantasy worked is that it's literally the style of game they've been making for decades, warhammer 40k isn't, there is no passion in making it, it is just a product, and it will be treated as such
I think it would be phenomally funny if they make the opening SM faction be Blood Ravens, then you make a Guilliman Legendary Leader for DLC
The first campaign is just dawn of war campaign lmao
I remember launch TW:WH1 when you could only settle in your biome making it hell if you were empire trying to deal with greenskins or dwarfs
Just a bit of an add-on regarding the Total War series recap: as part of their “apology era” (as some fans put it), they are also reworking their latest historical game TW Pharaoh, which had piss-poor content at launch for the price being sold. With it, they’ll basically combine it with TW Troy, essentially doubling the content in all aspects, turning into what is essentially a Total War Bronze Age.
I’m gonna wait a bit after this update to see if it will be worth the buy, but as someone who started the series with Rome 1, I very much want to jump back into the historical strategy of it so I’m truly hoping for the best here 🙏🏻
The Ogre intro song is legendary! Ogres the faction for the real Gamer Body!
Okoii moment.
I don't think the map will be hard to figure out. They can do what Relic/Sega did with the first Dawn of War and make it easy to have a multi planet map along with incorporating numerous factions and not messing up any current lore. I think another option would be to do it on Armageddon. Starting factions would be Chaos, Orks, Guard, and Space Marines.
I also think you may have been overthinking sub-factions/chapters. They kind of already do that with the current games. Depending on what leader you choose you can get an exclusive unit or 2 and faction wide boost. The only new variable would be reskinning the units based on which leader you choose. If you pick Logan Grimnar the Space Marines would be skinned as Space Wolves and you would get thunderwolf calvary and your Runepriest/Librarian would get a subfaction exclusive spell along with buffs for melee. I think you could easily do the same thing with a few of the guard variants. Cadians, Catachan, Krieg, Steel Legion, and Tallarn all have a few notable named characters.
I will be interested to see how they do currency. The imperium could easily use generic "credits", but things like Tyranids, Necron, Chaos, Orks, Eldar, and basically all xenos armies (except maybe voltaan) don't use currency. They will need a mechanic to get biomass or something for Nids, and each of the other factions will need their own unique form of growing the army. Orks will probably just keep the waagh mechnic if I had to guess.
Tyranids would just copy the WoC where instead of gaining favor you get biomass for raiding and sacking.
Orks will use teef for da boyz and scrap for da trucks as their currencies, of course!
Thrones or credits for all imperium factions, orks teeth, tyranids biomass, necrons blackstone, unless that is a specisl resource where it will be awakening points or something similar, but ultimately it doesn't matter what they name it, diplomacy handwaves money to be identical to eachother
Necron can use a "similar" strategy, but maybe giving some iconic unit buff😆
Guard could use requisition/influence - maybe this is the Only War player talking, but it won't feel like a proper Guard/Imperium campaign unless you're fighting the red tape and bureaucracy as hard as the gribblies
Chapters will be like heroes in TW:WH most likely. Pick a leader and that changes your chapter and unique units.
Yeah, you’d have Gulliman and Lion, obviously, Dante and Helbrecht. Idk who is the Space Wolves leader but they are the last divergent chapter.
It would be cool for a make your own hero like TWW3 that you could a chapter. Ik there is an Xcom mod like that
@@heitorgundim1118 Space Wolves' Primarch is the Leman Russ battle tank. Just like how Imperial Fists have the Rogal Dorn battle tank as their Primarch.
@@ashtonhoward5582 fair enough lol.
I also commented this before they mentioned Leman’s return. It makes sense, I just hadn’t thought about it
That's not how how heros work, heros are below lord level and take a slot in the army, they will make different chapter sub race of marine, likely with 2 or more legendary lords implemented via specfic subrace DLC where its just that the 5 units 2 characters, with the rest of the army having the core of the basic marine army to keep them in place
They won't have the different skins for each guard faction. They will probably do it like how they did the Skaven. Ikit Claw can recruit death runners, but he doesn't get some bonuses to them like Clan Eshin gets. The whole army will be small groups of flavor that they can all get if they want it.
35:34 Sisters with Saint Celestine as the LL versus Word Bearers with Demon Lorgar as the LL.
I think the solution to the galaxy / planet issue is going to have to be multiple layers. You'll have planets, which might each have half a dozen settlements/battlefields, then systems, where you need to control multiple planets/asteroid belts/etc (regions in TWWH), then the galactic map. This would let you bring in new DLC characters in their own regions a way that makes sense for their individual campaign--"help Lion find his friends", "help the big angry green guy kill the big angry red guy", "the big angry green guy is fighting the big angry red guy, get them both in your pokeball".
Each character would have a self-contained campaign map that make sense for that character, then mush them all together in the ME equivalent.
They could make a ton of random Xenos enemies that you encounter and then whenever they add Tau the Tau campaign can be all about joining these random xenos and even human settlements into the greater good
i hope they add more narrative stuff like the prologue form twwh3. The sandbox is fun and all but It is nice just having clear objective besides "conquer x"
Battlefleet gothic style ship battles might be fun too at some point plus with the way GW is going at the moment I can't see them waiting until 3 to get the sisters in.
They are gonna have female Space Marines before they even do SOB I bet!
have you seen how the total war engine handles ship battles? its abysmal
I'll call it right now the game won't have space combat, creative assembly hasn't been able to do naval combat decently well since shogun 2
@@KT-pv3klnaval battles are fun in total war, the problem is CA never put the resources in to do it right
@@pedrokantor3997 As a SoB fan FSM is like an admission of failure that GW couldn't make them part of the poster boys. Pretty pathetic...
"The galaxy map will get boring" Meanwhile, Stellaris exists. Also you have the Cicatrix Maledictum and the warp, the map can be *wild.*
An alternative to a Galactic map would be something like moving between Continents in Empire Total War but replace Continents with planets
I would love Gabriel Angelos and the rest of my Blood Ravens as a small DLC, it would be cool to see them come back
There are no bad Poorhammer topics but this does feel like a particular treat!
It will be set in a region of space known as The Cold Shoulder
Ah, yes, the famous Cold Shoulder sector... Our beloved navigator, could you avoid entering it? It's a... silly place
17:37 there are 96 legendary lords currently in tww3.
Doing the work we were too lazy to do.
@@thepoorhammerpodcast ...should be the motto for the patreon.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if they go the Gladius/DoW III route with Knights and just make them units within Chaos/Imperium rosters.
If CA can even release this game and it not being a steaming pile of garbage for an entire year, it would be a miracle.
For the map layout its already kind of done for them, the galactic map is always talked about in lore as a 2D plan. As for location, the great rift already has the galaxy nicely split between possible focus points, which can then be stitched together like immortal empires.
Didn't Empire Total war effectively had 3 maps (Europe, NA, India), connected to each other through seas? You can easily scale that idea for 40k for entire solar system with several planets, moons and planetoids, although making it bigger becomes problematic (good luck warp jumping between systems when daemons are a playable faction).
Quite literally just started a 3 hour drive, happy to see yall!
I could genuinely listen to this topic for hours on end. The way that I can just feel how my excitement at the prospect of a Warhammer 40k total war is mirrored by you guys only serves to make me even more hyped.
Just imagine (if you will)
An army Painter. You have generic options for space marine where you can color code your SM to the ones you want. So think of a Build a Faction.
Can make your own SM and add your own buffs to customise it.
Then any special characters slot in their own OR even add Special characters to your own faction
If you put SM, CSM, and Daemons all into 1 "Faction/Army/etc" and add the flavors as DLC, you get roughly 15 factions plus Knights, (Sisters, Guard, Ad Mech, Custodes, Space Marines, CSM, Daemons, Votann, Necrons, Eldar, DEldar, Tau, GSC, Orks, Nids) so you could put the bones together at 5 factions per game. What order though? Well, SM & CSM are locks for 1, Orks is a pretty safe bet. I feel IG are a safe bet because of the WW1 game and Daemons are mostly done already, so that's an easy call.
What I hope the map is like is that a planet is the province and you still fight on a galactic scale taking your forces across planets because then you can get that feel of being Guilliman, abbadon, etc leading a faction to victory
I think it'd be neat to have like planet -> system -> sub-sector -> sector. And just cap it at that. Where in the galaxy is the sector? Uncertain. But just to show how *massive* just a tiny section of the galaxy is to properly show the horrific scale we're working with in 40k. 45:57
People have made several discussion videos on making the perfect total war 40k game but honestly its been perfected already. Just do what the Dawn of War series did (Mostlt talking about 1 and its standalones, i know the fanbase is split on the game mechanics of 2 and especially 3).
The Dawn of War formula works perfectly in replicating the Table top experience of 40k. I am in the camp of 40k not really working with the TW engine. Note that im talking about the battles itself, in terms of grand campaign with a large world map to conquer then yes TW is perfect but for the actual battles itself, it doesnt work with the skirmish style gameplay that is reminscent of 1-2k point battles of warhammer in any edition (10e or otherwise).
Though if they do scale it up to epic 40k or armageddon style of play then maybe but it is not the most well known type of game that people know of 40k
Since this is a Total war game. They can absolutely bring in all of the Primarchs into the game. It doesn't have to represent what is only on the tabletop
An April 1st Joke would be to add the Emperor leading the Custodians DLC
IMO I don’t think genestealers could make it as a whole faction themselves. Given the scale of 40k I have doubts that a game with potentially all these different factions could have a conflict on just one planet.
Genestealer cults would however work extremely well as a mechanic for the nids. Something along the lines of how the skaven undercities work, you could send a genestealer to a location and establish a cult, later causing an uprising that could spawn cultist units.
I just imagin an employee at creative assembly is a fan of poorhammer, the saw what this video was about, and grabbed a pad and pen and began writing EVERYTHING down
I tried to get into TW3:WH and quite enjoyed my time with it, but I quickly fell off it due to learning curve frustration, option overload, and the sheer technicality of it all. That being said I love RTS and 4X games like Civ and Xcom, so I know there's a place in my brain to click with it. I just haven't found it yet. Maybe translating it into 40k first would help since I dont know much about fantasy warhammer, but I'd also like to be sold a little more on what is worth appreciating in the game more. Hoping this video and friendly commenters can shed some light on that for me.
Consider: Knights reps as part of AdMech and as part of a Vashtorr chaos DLC faction
That way you don't need the entire army to be them necessarily and they can act more like big guy support unless you actively choose to run only them
Perfect timing, I was just looking for something to listen to at work.
I think that they might implement Elder Webgates as a way to do Travel between planets. With this they could introduce a new planet with each game and then connect them with their version of “mortal realms”.
Great video again!
I think you can make the first one a planet, the second one a system where you can travel between a few planets, and the third one a segmentum where you can travel between systems. That way you can have different factions and subfactions starting in very different situations with different resources and enemies.
I will literally buy a PC if this game comes out
keep a few hundred dollars of pocket change to afford all of the day one DLC packs ...
i honestly thought about how the Necrons dynasties could be implimented. As they could have certain mechanics/style of tiering of their units akin to the tomb kings. As the Necron tombs like any tomb king settlement is burried and slowly overtime they reawaken to full strength. their lords being rather powerfull and have a trait like with the undead, as a necron (as far as i know) dosen't seem to flee from combat or show any sign of fear, so Necrons would just be unaffected by fear and terror but start to crumble if their leadership gets too low. Their lords and heroes could should be rather powerful and could be recruited through the use of a "Reawakening protocol", as the lord and hero takes several turns to recruit and costs more but is also gonna be pretty powerful. As the protocol is kinda like with the Kislev ice witch recruitments of there being choices, however i kinda wanna imagine those choices being more then just having 2 options. However the traits that you chose could be the former "life" of the necron, as necrons tend to list their glorious deeds. like a Necron lord who was a good city administrator and helped expand their cities (traits that are more like buffing your homeland and help speed up the advancement of cities) or a lord who was more of a warrior.
a core part of their mechanic could be "Necrodermis: 0.10% health regen, heals injured units before ressurecting dead ones", a just passive effect, as the lowest form of necron or construct is built with this trait. so it would kinda mean that fighting them, you then gotta focus down units or end up the entire unit being healed back to full health with fully restored models like a Vampire count army that can replenish their model count during combat to just help the slug fest.
Their Lord list could be
Overlord: the generic and kinda function like a martial lord with army buffing capabilities and commanding, with ressurection orbs and commands.
some kind of destroyer (i am not so into the lore about if they are actual army leaders who are destroyers)
Crypteks (lord variant) with their assorted "magic"
Heros
Lord: like an empire captain and warrior priest or "mini overlord" that is about buffing your armies helps keeping up their moral in combat with their own ressurection orbs or who knows what kind of equipment they could have.
Destroyer lord: melee focused combative unit that is meant to fight and kill like an Exalted champion (but permanently on a horse/chariot due to well it is a destroyer
Warden (idk what their exact role is or where to place them, but they could be added somewhere)
Cryptek: like the lords but just as heroes and filling out the role of spellcasters for the necron army but it could work more like with the dwarves in that necron magic could be more like the dwarves
some of their units could be
Scarabs: a swarm unit like nurglings, as these scarabs are low tier and can soak up alot of damage as they can tie up units, as not only are they fast, but they are also durable and hard to hit.
Warriors: the standart hybrid infantry unit, as they do have a solid armor value and health pool with a lower amount of models pr. unit with a fair amount of model health. They are slow and aren't slouches in melee combat and can fire while moveing. (i am not sure if necron warriors can run, cause all i see them do is that rather menaceing terminator walk).
Immortals: actual ranged units with solid aim.
Lych guard, melee infantry, just outright tough and immensly durable with missile block chances and just able to get stuck in melee and who knows if they could all have the "guardian" skill that buffs the resistances of nearby heroes (as if i remember correctly Lych guards are bodyguards of lords and overlords)
deathmarks: just like with the skaven sniper weapons teams just fewer in number and got the roles of killing characters or picking off high armored targets like a space marine from very long distances.
Flayed ones: a sort of anti-infantry unit that has stalk and could have a sort of scaleing damage as they fight along with a "discourage" modifiere on their melee attacks as they are rather terrorfying
but warmachines i am not so strong on. but all of this is just me spitballing idears of how the necrons could work
a faction who gets really powerful the longer you don't deal with them, as their late game units are just insane and even just the average necron warrior is just a solid lower tier unit that is not a construct but can be solid as a Doomstack early on to conqure new lands.
As their cities go through their awakening protocols and who knows, they could have a mechanic akin to skaven, that the necrons could uses excess "gold", to just awaken newly conqured cities at a higher level (but it being really expensive and only really a lategame thing to help stabalized and keep newly conqured lands safer).
Nids will be Swarmlord and a Norn Queen of some variety. Old one eye and the like are legendary heroes and regiments of reknown almost for sure. Generic lords are going to being hive tyrants and patriarchs etc.
Finally I can go to the gym
Personally for the ad mech I think it’d be neat to have to hunt for STC’s and those give major long term buffs
I think for a galaxy map, they might want to do a Star Wars Empire at War style galaxy where you can have between a huge map with lots of planets and a tiny one with a few planets depending on what the players want. That would probably be a third game thing, as they should build out before jumping into a galaxy wide map. If I was developing I would have the first game be the Terra side of the Galaxy and the second game the Imperium Nihilus side of the galaxy and the third brings the two together. But I am just spitballing.
For Space Marines, I want to believe it will be grouped together as "Loyalists" and the roster will be divided into specialized roles, where you have the tanky shielded siege units are the Imperial Fists, fast-moving best-for-flanking units be the White Scars, Stalk and Sniping units be the Ravenguard, etc. Other more standalone chapters can still be similar with the base Space Marine faction with a few unique units but can then also have a unique campaign mechanic to balance it out maybe.
Another thing would be if the cannon fodder infantry for Space Marines would be basic Imperial Guard troops, but then we can have a Legendary Lord whose subfaction specializes more on Imperial Guard with their own unique Imperial Guard units (much like comparing campaign mechanics between Kroq-gar with Tehenhauin).
I think the big oversight is that when this releases Fulgrim will be back. And Guilliman has a lot of beef with him.
I'd say if there is a matchup its G vs Fulg and not G vs Morti.
Love this epidsode! you guys are getting me hyped for this game!
I could see if Fulgrim has a good launch having him as a box lord for Guilliman to go against.
I do hope it goes bigger than planet level. Like, multiple forces fighting over a key system would be great. But that's honestly my biggest complaint of Gladius is that we are stuck in the same biome on every map.
Issue I see with total war 40k is that half the factions are imperium, and with each space marine chapter being one, 3/4s.
Imperium is a disorganized mess where fights do happen but that is a exeption more then the rule.
Galaxy map would be a must have for games 2 & 3. It's also how I reckon an AoS Total war could be done, multiple realms, each realm is being fought over by different factions or subfactions and in a massive mortal empires style map they can venture to other realms to conquer them too.
Good stuff, fingers crossed it all comes true.
Id arrange factions like this:
G1 base:
Space Marines (non-divergent)
Guard
CSM
Orks
G1 DLC:
Forces of nurgle (DG+demons)
Blood Angels (pre-order)
Admech
G2 base:
Eldar
Drukhari
Inquisition (GK+DW+inquisition)
Necrons
G2 dlc:
Tau
Forces of tzeentch
Dark Angels (pre-order)
G3 base:
Votann
Space Wolves
Forces of Khorne
Sisters
G3 dlc:
Black templars (pre-order)
Forces of slaanesh
Tyranids
I really want to see CA tackle Exodites like Thay did with Vampire Coast
Reminder about the blue bussy steak.
But for the map, you can do a stelaris style map where planets are like Provences (take the cities on the planet) and an extra bonus for a system. Either that or each planet is a city equivalent and a system is a Provence
My idea to go about the map would just be to make the Maps for each Planet Smaller.
Lets say, fully zoomed out you got 6 "Planets" - and each planet, if you zoom in is a map roughly the size of a single continent in immortal Empires right now.
(Like - North/ South America, Africa, Ulthuan, Europe, Asia)
On each Planet there are some factions -and then (Similar to the "High Seas / Underway) traveling mechanic - you can then travel to a diffrent planet - assuming to take certain cities on each map - marking the map edge - because these cities are the only ones with enough room for a space port.
(Then throw in special travelling mechanics for Necrons / Eldar because of Teleportation / Webway , and we can call it a day)
Space Marines can probably be done as a single faction. Each Chapter Master is a LL and chapter distinctions are well within the boundaries of what a LL can modify.
Sisters are in a really rough patch because they occupy a nearly identical thematic niche to Space Marines- they're fanatical warrior-priest space knights in power armour who can't wait to martyr themselves for the Emperor. Yeah, they're different in The Lore, but they feel similar on the surface.
Guard should be a priority launch faction for a million reasons, but one of them is that "regular army dudes" are a great baseline for other (sub)factions like Traitor Guard, Brood Brothers, Gue'vesa, etc.
the hardest thing with a 40k tw would probably be figuering out which way to do it map wise that would best fit the tw formula. would it be a full sector, a sub sector, a star system or just a single planet (like the game gladius for comparrison)? personally i think either the planet or the star system one since it would fit more with the tw formula and you can avoid having deal with how you should conquer a planet, since it does not take a single battle or siege to take over an entire planet and anyone even remotely aware of how planetary assaults work in 40k would find it hard to overlook it (bfg2 gets a pass since it is an entierly fleet focused game but tw is army focused so it won't do here).
but you would either have to do that or lock the army into several battles for one or more turns. now then that problem instead gets transfered over to a hive on the planetary level with the same possebilities bout between it and a planet i think the former falling in a single fight is (a bit) easier to allow. you also (mostly) avoid having to do naval battles, which ca has clearly shown it has no desire to do and its tw wh implementation would likely make even less sense in 40k (prob boarding a single ship that has the entire enemy army with your army).
on the note of implementation then there is the fact that 40k is a very ranged heavy setting with almost every such unit being able to fire on the move, and most artillery would likely have full map range. it would be interresting to see how they would deal with this since i think that for most factions pure melle units are not the norm like it has been in most tw games.
lastly, and this is probably just me, i would prefer that we do not have legendary charachters, instead we have more of a buffed and immortal generic leader that you can customize a bit more. taking chaos marines as an example you pic a legion/warband, take a mark if you can all of which comes with a buff and possebly a debuff/restriction, pick either a chaos lord or a sorcerer lord and name them and select their wepons (which for all charachters you should be able to change later like the daemon prince or the minotaur hero in twwh).the reason i would rather have it this way is that it allows you to pick more (and hopefully your prefered) veriant of the faction instead of the space marines only coming with the legendary leaders dante, marneus calgar and Azrael, thus limiting you to the blood angels, dark angels and ultramarines as your choice of space marine faction. though i doubt it would be done this way since CA won't have as much dlc to milk us with.
I think space marines should be handled like the warriors of chaos in tww3, where you have some characters that are locked to different units. That way you as the player can still go around and collect all the legendary lords in a single campaign while giving them different styles.
Drukhari I feel like are better as a DLC since our range is small, unless they wanna finally want to give commoragh some love (and new units).
Also dear god I can't wait to see what Tariff releases once it comes out.
I've heard one youtuber argue that primarchs(both Traitor and Loyalist) should be unlocks a bit into the campaign(similarly to Lord Kroak, the Green Knight, Gotrek and Felix, etc. in Total War Warhammer). So with the Word Bearers your starting lord is Erebus, and then you can unlock Lorgar. And with the Ultramarines your starting lord is Marneus Calgar, and then you can unlock Roboute Guilliman.
30:00 you can do similarly to how they do for the Empire, give release a Krieg Legendary Lord, for example, with 2~4 Krieg units and have that lord buff them.
Guard is supposed to be mixed arms anyway.
Definitely one of my favorites. Couple thoughts: for Guard you could just have Cadian be the bog-standard (like they are on the tabletop), and then have specialized units from other armies, like vostroyans, mordians, tallarn, and the like.
You could do the same for Marines. Ultramarines are your bog standards, but you add specialized units from other chapters. Ultramarine Tactical marines, but then add some White Scars bikers, Dark Angels plasma squad, Imperial Fist Devastators, and so on.
I'm not a game designer, foremost, so this is just the way I'd see it working.
For different Guard regiments, my gut is to just make one uniform and use that uniform model for every infantry guy in the army, other gear (weapons, radios, whatever) is universal and just goes on top, vehicles get a straight recolor. That's half the art/design work, then special units like Rough Riders or Jungle Fighters or Karskin is the rest. If you look at the tabletop army there's not actually *that many* different infantry units, over half the codex is vehicles.
You can also look at the 40k Gladius game for faction release order ideas
Great wpisode of the podcast!
it may be the IG as the 4th faction. the stem tank has directional armor and the ironsides where originally going to get volley guns they function like how guardsmen and a IG tank would work in game
So going for the launch factions here's my honest prediction and why.
Game 1 Base
-Space Marines
-Orks
-CSM
-Tyranids or Necrons (I lean towards Necrons because orks and nids would most likely work as horde factions, so Necrons for diversity works in my opinion)
Game 1 DLC
-Guard
-Agents of the Imperium (throw some inquisitors in and then just humans that aren't part of guard)
Game 2 Base
-Sisters of Battle (I think you could get away without a space marine on the cover if its at least a sister of battle taking its place)
-Eldar
-Drukhari
-Tyranids or Necrons (whichever isn't in 1, I think nids as the big horde army fits here)
Game 2 DLC
-Mechanicus
-GSC
Game 3 Base
-Grey Knights (your super elite space marines for the cover fighting the big chaos threat)
-Tau
-The 4 Monogod Cult Marines all at same time but 1 LL per race
Game 3 DLC
-Leagues of Votann (i think by this point they'd have some lore and more stuff to actually use)
-Dark Admech (I think they'd be in at this point)
I do think Space Marines are weird and not really worth being full on race packs, but I think they could be something like psuedo race packs. Throw something like BA or DA facing something else and they either get their own slot or are slotted in SM, but they get access to units no other SM get. You just can not sell the marine chapters as whole race packs on par with things like any other faction in this game. Throw like, an Iron Warriors v Fist dlc into the first game, a BA vs something like nids eventually, in the 2nd game do DA with Lion to be the big primarch release of that game, and whoever is 3rd primarch do that in the third game.
I also think it'd be worth putting guard in the first game because then you have something really easy to be chaff mini factions for all of the factions to kill, but i don't know how you do that other than making them the day 1 dlc. Could swap CSM and Guard, and have CSM copy TW 1 and have the undivided chaos faction be your day 1 dlc, and have guard be base game.
Also I want to be generous and say Daemons could be FLC since the most they really have to do is add like 2 new LL since the Nurgle and Slaanesh LLs don't really exist in 40k. otherwise it's a nothing burger so just port them as that game's Bretonnia.
Also Knights are weird cause it's the tabletop problem. How does any faction fight a knight army if most factions start with just basic infantry, and the knights start with, knights. I think they could do it, but I wouldn't be opposed to knights (and custodes for that matter) being hero options you can recruit into the appropriate armies.
As an average guard player I agree with your assessment of what we will expect lol
Great episode, love the total Warhammer content
If we're committed to a 3 game release strategy, it makes sense to front load the first release with the factions that have the most potential DLC to sell.
1. Space Marines: Have the Ultramarines with Guilliman and Calgar as leaders, then all the chapters can be sold separately. As long as you have a popular character, a unique gimmick, a default color scheme, and a few special units people will buy everything from Black Templars to Blood Ravens. Even give away a few as free updates to make people feel like they're getting a good deal.
2 Chaos Space Marines: Start with Abbadon and the Black Legion, then sell the traitor legions. Magnus and Ahriman with the Thousand Sons would be my pick for the first addition.
3. Imperial Guard: Start with the Cadians, but who cares. Guard has a hundred dudes in different hats, and people will happily pay extra to not play as Cadians. Give me Ciaphas Cain and a squad of Valhallans.
4. Orkz: 'Cause Orkz is Orkz
DLC. Chaos Demons: The work is mostly done anyway. Start with Skarbrand for Khorne if you want to add them one at a time.
It feels like the Eldar should also be in there, but it also feels like maybe they should wait and launch with the Dark Eldar in Game 2. Then you can go all out on all the best flavors of elf, as long as the Harlequins and Exodites get in I'll be happy. And if we're still worried who should go on the covers; put Guilliman on the cover of the first game, an Astartes on the cover of the second, and a Grey Knight on the cover of the third. That should take care of our dudes in tin cans quota.
Only problem is that its Creative Assembly making it lol. The internal culture is horrible and few of the real visionaries of the company are left.
Calling it right now "Angels of Death" as a big show up for 40k 2: Dark Angels(Lion and Azrael), Blood Angels(Dante and Mephiston), Death Guard (Mortarion and Typhus) & Necrons (Silent King and Imotekh) with World Eaters (Angron & Kharn) as pre-order.
Total warhammer 40k? I’m interested but a little concerned about how well they’ll make the leap from rank and flank to sci-fi battles. There’s some very different dynamics. Should probably be faster moving, too.
I really feel like everyone is just kinda brushing over how radically different the tactical battles are going to need to be for this to work. CA has very pointedly only ever covered historical periods BEFORE machine guns were invented, because every era of history, and thus every game they made, all use the basic "march in formation" style of warfare and don't have vehicles. The vehicles that do exist in Total War Warhammer were super rare and expensive and only one faction has them, because the game breaks if everyone has guns that don't need to be reloaded between shots and fired in volleys.
I get that the strategy map makes sense and can be done and be really cool for a Total War 40k game, and CA will definitely figure out a way to pull that off. But I'm really concerned about the tactical battles. They couldn't even make naval warfare work and gave up on it after 2 games, and they still struggle with making AI that can handle the tactical battles and siege battles.
Total war is, at its core, a 4x game slapped onto an RTS, and to make it work for 40k, they need to make an entirely different RTS for the tactical map. The movement is fundamentally different for infantry, the terrain matters way more and the infantry interact with it very differently because everyone has guns, and because everyone has guns they need to fundamentally change how they design maps so that it's possible for melee combatants to ever get in melee range.
Remember how every successful 40k RTS has really small maps? And was made by Relic Entertainment, the studio that Sega just split off from, so Sega can't borrow any of those guys from the current Relic project to help out on Total War: 40k?
We know they're aware of these challenges, and they're wisely making a new engine, but I can't help but worry because I don't really know how they're going to make it work. The tactical battles are necessarily going to be so completely different from Total War it'll be a completely different game, and there's a lot of ways you could approach that, but they're a little hamstrung by the need to try to make it feel like the big-scale Total War games people are used to. Which is fundamentally incompatible with how infantry fights when everyone has guns. Squads are 9 dudes in modern war, platoons are 30, and that's getting so big that it's kinda unwieldy. And you can't handwave that by saying "it's a space fantasy!" because the reason that happened is "guns are really fucking good at killing things, so big groups of guys all clumped up just get utterly fucking destroyed by automatic weapons", and thus you need to choose between making automatic weapons useless and no fun to use, or giving people the big scale infantry groups.
And I'm not sure how to reconcile that.
Drukhari as a wood elf like faction with a campaign focused on taking slaves rather than seizing territory and linking up Webway portals to increase their hunting ground
Lords
Valossian Sythrac
Lelith
Urien
Drazhar
SM chapters probably should be LLs, same with CM warbands, similar to how WoC work in TTWH3. We even have the mono-god WoCs like Festus as an analog to CMs with their own Codex like Deathguard (Also Typhus should lead DG, with Mortarion as LH)
Special guard regiments will most likely just be RoRs or a unit type at best. We won't get a full Catachan Army, Guard will predominantly be Cadian.
I'd bet money that Tyranids would be in part one. AdMech is probably going to be in the same game as Necrons as a main faction.
Knights will just be units, not factions, I think. 20 Knights are a Doomstack, not an Army. In generell, some of the more elite factions will probably just get subsumed into other factions because a completely elite army is way harder to design in a fun way in a TW game.
For the overworld I'd expect something like in Empire TW, with multiple theaters as "planets".
I dont think guard would be a dlc faction just because of how many units they have like thats so much dlc that could be made for them.
Personally I think it'll be:
1- Marines, Orks, Chaos Marines, Guard.
2- Eldar, Drukhari, Mechanicus, Necrons
3- Sisters, Tau, Tyranids, Chaos Demons?
You can probably swap like guard/sisters/mechanicus in any order you want. They went 2 "good" factions, 2 evil factions for each game about( third game does have more evil factions technically), which is why I think itll be something like this. Other factions and subfactions for dlc.
Honestly, if you just make Generic Cadian Guard or whatever and throw in the specialized units from the other lines, modders WILL reskin the rest of the army and buy you the time to make your official ones or whatever.
My first Total War game was the second one Medieval bought pretty much every single TW game since love them so much
I feel like different games will have different warzones, so the first one with guilliman and Abaddon could be vigilus or something, and then mortal empires connects them. Terra could be like the oak of ages thats a win condition but you don't really interact with it or something. I also think each planet should be like a province with a few settlements on each, so like a fortress, a hive city and some industry.