I can tell you this much. When I was baptized the doctrine/dogma of the church was that women could never ever be priets. An ordained deacon is part of the priesthood. I won't be part of a church that "changes" it's mind on matters that are unchangeable. It won't be me leaving the catholic church, it will be all those who are trying to make a new church.
I appreciate the information in this video as a former Evangelical coming into the Catholic Church, however, sadly, it’s obvious that the divisiveness in the non-denom world exists in Catholicism as well. I don’t understand the issue with discussing and discerning. That’s what we do with our faith. We question and we keep digging. That’s actually what led me to the Catholic Church. It’s disheartening to see several in the comments basically saying “get over it because it’s always been this way.” If there’s ever a sign something needs attention, it’s when people say that it doesn’t need tending to😂 Thanks again for sharing this. I have hope we will make the right decision as a church.
@@theemoryquince Absolutely! God gave us brains, it'd be pretty odd if He didn't expect us to use them. We have a really long tradition of people grappling with issues of the faith, plenty of them much bigger on a theological level than the role of the diaconate, and that intellectual curiosity has ultimately lead people throughout the centuries to learn more about God and one another. If we lose that divinely created intellectual curiosity, and just accept matters of faith unquestioningly-just going "Well, it's always been this way" or "That's just the way it is"-we'll miss out on opportunities to delve deeper into the nature of God, ever-ancient and ever-new, and His vision for humanity. We have to have the courage to answer new questions, as well as find ways to translate old answers for new historical and cultural contexts, and have the confidence that the Holy Spirit guides His Church just as Jesus said He does.
@theemoryquince +JMJ What you see is the woke Protestantization of the Church since V2. And since V2 you see a precipitous decline in US Church in Mass attendance (95% in 1955 to 17% today and much worse in Europe) a decline in vocations, plummeting marriages and infant baptism and Novus Ordo churches closing. During those 50 years, the sexual abuse crisis enabled by the lax Novus Ordo became acute with a growing gay clergy. This crisis reflects a watering down and loss of the Faith. Fortunately there remain lights in the Church. They are found in Traditional Latin Mass communities where numbers are growing in large young families and vocations. Christ will never abandon His bride. Dominus vobiscum.
@@brianbacon5149what are all these things you are talking, that's not what the comment you are responding to is pointing to, read it again please. She is saying, women must discern not talk or create issues.
@chiomanwaogu7555 +JMJ. Of course I'm addressing her comment. She notices divisiveness in the Church. I'm providing information why. It comes down to us doing what we want to do and not what God wants us to do: i.e. turn to Him with a humble heart, seek forgiveness of our sins, eat of His Flesh and live in beatitude. Dominus vobiscum.
I think women should concentrate on their families and children more as they did in the olden days. I dont believe in womens lib. Good decent men respect good women and listen to what they say. Men and women have different roles. This merging of the sexes is stupid. Men and women are so different in many ways. They have different needs and strengths and God made us in this His way.
The pro women deacons camp, for whom this is just a stepping stone to women priests, manifest (perfect word) at least two errors that show they are unfit to be Catholic, let alone clergy. First, they do not know the Church is protected by Jesus and led by the Holy Spirit, or if they do know, likely resist Jesus’ teachings as they do the Church’s teachings. The other problem is they want to couch the argument in feminist terms, “Oh, the patriarchal structure is keeping us down and they think we aren’t equal or worthy”. That is the devil speaking through them. The women who financed and provided help in Jesus’ ministry were not deacons and is this not His Church? Are you going to call God a misogynist as well? Quit attacking the Church from within and if you will not accept Church teaching which was received from Jesus, take your Protestant hearts to a Protestant Church. You can be a minister there.
First, it is highly inappropriate for any Catholic to show his brother or sister to the door. We are all baptized Catholics. Second, we are all of us created in God's image and likeness and that likeness has nothing to do with genitalia. Jesus was incarnated as a male in first century Palestine because the culture was patriarchal. Had the culture been matriarchal, the Second Person of the Trinity would have been incarnated as a female, perhaps named Johanna. Third, Jesus Himself was not a priest (there was an active priestly tribe in His time to which He did not belong). He ordained no women and no men. He Himself was a layman. Our current understanding of ordination and hierarchy owes much to the Romans and the Jews. Fourth: All are equal in God's eyes. The Church has seven sacraments, yet women are allowed to receive only six of them. Bestowing ordination to the diaconate and priesthood on women is a matter of justice. The Church will never be truly whole or truly holy if we continue to ignore that fact. Fifth: The standard argument against female ordination is that it is a power grab by women. Is that why men are so anxious to protect the priesthood? Are they just really scared to share the power?
@@lizbueding2626 you indicate you are Catholic yet your entire argument is post modern secularism and contradicts Catholic teaching. As a layperson, I can’t show you the door but I can disabuse you of false beliefs you hold. People are put out and let in the Church every day by bishops. You say Jesus is not a priest and He did not ordain anyone. The Church teaches He is the high priest, prophet and king. He established the priesthood and ordained the apostles in the upper room. He revealed God as Father and Himself as Son and He ordained male disciples. Your beliefs about societal norms of the day are not part of divinely revealed truths and probably baseless, because the women and John at the crucifixion and the first witnesses to see our resurrected Lord undoes your secular argument. Your belief the Church is unjust and unholy (unless it disregards Jesus’ example) is an admission you are already trusting your own judgement over the Church’s. I call that a Protestant heart.
I am catholic but have an unorthodox approach to this. I feel that the Church probably erred when clericalizing deacons. In the Book of Acts, the diaconate was created for the manual task of managing food distribution precisely so that the apostles could focus on the priestly work. The Church could very well anoint hordes of volunteers as deacons without confining the role to priestly duties.
@@jperez7893 There is no such thing as the ordinary magisterium. The Church has not officially spoken on this issue. It is a matter of discipline (like the former Friday fast) and can be changed by the pope at any time. Francis (and JPII ) may well have said no, but that does not forever close the issue.
Jesus had many women followers and he still chose 12 men so I think it should stay that way. Women have many roles in the Church as followers of Christ.
Fascinating to see that at every turn, the Church has expressed an openness to continued discernment around the question of women in the diaconate, but without ever advancing toward a conclusion. I think Ms. Cahill asks the right question: “For how long can an open discernment go on?” I respect Father McKnight’s concern that we don’t rush the discernment, but I also feel in my bones the Church’s statements in Synod documents that addressing women’s voices in the Church is “urgent”!
Women still can have a voice even without being part of the diaconate. Of course the diaconate is not part of the sacrament, but it seems like the Catholics who want women deacons so bad tend to come from a very modernist perspective that women deserve more power. It's fine to have women deacons, but our reasons for them should go beyond giving them power or giving them "a voice" or other similar reasons. That means we should have very, very, very, very good reasons to have women deacons. This is an issue beyond just plain fairness.
@@MontfortracingThere are so many women working in Church ministry today… Why would we not want to afford them the opportunity to strengthen their work through the sacramental grace of the Holy Spirit? If we truly believe what we say about the power of the Spirit and the grace found in the sacraments, we should have very, very, very, very good reasons for withholding it from women.
@@aaronsinner7314 that's because sacramental graces work differently. Those graces aren't just for everyone. Why would you need the sacramental grace from Holy Unction if you're not dying? Why would you need the sacramental grace of Holy Matrimony if you're not getting married? Also, each sacrament is different. For one, we don't give the Eucharist to everyone. Plus, it was Jesus who gave us the seven sacraments, if He would've wanted women to be priests if He conferred the Holy Orders for them, but He didn't. I can't get any sacramental grace from Holy Order or Matrimony or Unction cuz none of those apply, yet I volunteer for the Church. There are monks who work for the Church, even have leadership positions, yet they don't get Holy Orders. Sacraments are different from something like actual grace, and actual grace is for everyone, and I think atheists can even receive actual grace.
@@Montfortracing Sacraments aren’t the only path to grace, but they are nonetheless a special outpouring of grace that strengthens the faithful, right? Naturally, one must be appropriately eligible… but when we are bestowing God’s grace, don’t we owe it to the faithful to make those doors as wide as God will possibly allow? Along those lines, I've noticed in recent years an expanded willingness on the Church's part to administer Anointing of the Sick to any who are ailing, not just those on death's door. (I received the sacrament in college when I mentioned an upcoming, non-life threatening surgery to a priest, and he enthusiastically extended an invitation to the sacrament that I hadn't anticipated. I've witnessed this trend beyond that interaction, as well.) During his earthly life, Jesus conferred what we might think of as Holy Orders only upon circumcised male Jews. Yet we’ve opened up ordination beyond circumcised men of Jewish descent, haven’t we? How do we know what traits Jesus intended to be intrinsic and which were extraneous? We have to look to the early Church, Tradition, and divine revelation. This video makes clear those sources at minimum leave open the door of possibility to diaconal ordination for women. The Church hasn't taught this is a closed topic; it has expressed an openness to discernment about the matter.
@@aaronsinner7314 yes of course the sacraments are not the only paths to grace. That's why I mentioned actual grace. There are many other types of grace cuz God is a loving God. As for the sacraments, we have to understand the theology behind them, and we have 2000 years of theology and writings on the sacraments. Perhaps that'll be a good start for us to better understand them than to just have modernist views about them. Vatican II documents would also be another place to see what they said about the sacraments. As for women deacons, there's nothing wrong with having them in the Church. But seriously, we need to get away from the modernist thinking of wanting women deacons, and have better reasons for having them.
There are seven named men explicitly ordained by the laying of hands to the office of deacon (indicated here by the verb diakoneo, not the noun) in Acts 6: "The proposal was acceptable to the whole community, so they chose Stephen, a man filled with faith and the holy Spirit, also Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicholas of Antioch, a convert to Judaism."
Thank you for this, it very clearly gave the background, with as much detail as possible. It made me wonder why men appear so afraid of the possibility of having women deacons. The argument of "If the Lord had wanted women deacons we would have had them long ago. He did not do so given His divine plan for men and women," in my opinion, does not ring true. Maybe the Lord wanted us to see a need and fill that need. In any event, when I get to ask Him, I'm sure He'll let me know.
+JMJ You haul the entire Faith before your court of subjectivism and gnostic wishful thinking. It's divisive. The Magisterium has consistently taught throughout the ages in actual practice no ordained women. Women do not belong o the altar let alone as deacons. Yet you think you have the authority to change Scripture and Tradition. Bergoglio thought he could authorize Holy Communion to unrepentant sinners. He can't change constant teaching from our Lord and the Apostles anymore than you can. I have received the gift of Fear of the Lord in the holy Sacrament of Confirmation. I fear Him far more than I fear the folly of women deacons. This magical thinking is witchcraft and will never be accepted by faithful Catholics. Churches will continue to close. Your suggestion lacks faith is Gnostic, Protestant and heretical.
@@brianbacon5149Even if you fully believe you're in the right, there's no need to disrespect other perspectives, that's not exactly an effective means of persuasion; and being scared of them makes even less sense from our Catholic perspective in particular. With all due respect, do you have the faith that the Holy Spirit guides His Church through the Vicar of Christ, that the gates of Hell will not prevail against it, or not? When one's ever concerned about different movements like this, I honestly think it's best to remember the words of Gamaliel in Acts 5: If it's of human origin, it will fail; but, if it's from God, it is not something that will be able to be overcome, and those opposing it may find themselves opposing God. Have some faith in the grace given to the Apostles-the Church isn't perfect, because we're not perfect; God still His Church, come what may.
@isaac_buckley +JMJ There is no disrespect. Perhaps you mistake directness for disrespect. As to being scared that's also mistaken. My fear is of the Lord, not of deaconesses or discussions thereon. As to this pope, he has done many bad things including the harboring of molesters and abusers. On top of that he has circulated a number of heresies in direct conflict with the teachings of Christ the Head of the Church and constant church teaching and Tradition.The Angelic Doctor teaches Catholics to resist and not follow false teachings from the hierarchy. Summa Theologiae II, ii, Q 38.The Lord spits out the lukewarm and tramples on salt that loses its flavor. Directness in bearing the Lord's truth can be hot and salty. Dominus vobiscum.
Someone recently gave me a book on the Jesuit order, but upod research, I have heard a lot of negative imput, being so progressive and woke. That's a no from me.
A very informative and well-made documentary, thank you! It felt like a very balanced and levelheaded perspective; taking into account both our faith's history, as complex as it can be, and what our pastoral needs are today.
If it's SO important to you, joun a Protestant Faith. Did you see what happened when we started allowing girls to be altar servers, the boys leave along with the men, as in their presence in the pews. Just look around.
So when you push and get woman deacon, should I expect to see woman to become priest. Where does it stop if you continue to change the theology? This will never happen in my lifetime and hope it never does.
@@1780scottie I think a good example where calling someone something doesn’t make them the same thing. We have one Father in heaven and He is part of the Trinity. However Paul called himself father, does that mean he the our one true Father I. Heaven or is he considering himself a spiritual father. I believe calls Phoebe a deacon because she is a servant to Paul and the Church, just not an ordained Deacon. Something I learned through research in the word diakonos doesn’t only mean an ordained servant to Church, a lay person can also be servant to the church just not ordained.
People who see my comment I warn you do not support this channel or pay attention to them they support people like fr. James Martin who publicly dissents against the church and confuses good and holy catholics. By the grace of the god the new young priest of America are becoming more orthodox and conservative. Remember hard preaching softens hearts and soft preaching hardens hearts.
This was exceedingly eye-opening🧐 Frankly, I am now more sympathetic🙄 towards the idea🤔 However, I foresee at least one major theological difficulty💥💣 in having women🙋♀ preaching homilies at mass as this would contradict St. Paul's exhortation against women possessing that kind of authority🥴. I can see Pp. Francis not making a definitive decision and merely 'kicking the can further down the road' 🤷♂
Every time I hear a whine from the pulpit about the need for more priests or nuns I just want to holler. Vatican II made it very clear that the laity needed to be more fully integrated into the Church, but that instruction has been widely ignored or minimized, especially in the American church. Clericalism will never end as long as we keep encouraging priests (and consecrated - but especially priests) to think of themselves as special over any other ministry. They are important and their ROLE as necessary but not superior. Lay ministry should not only be for old people who are bored with life. It should be open and available to everyone who wants to serve. Broadening and opening different kinds and roles of ministry without regard to gender is necessary. On the other hand, as the child of a Protestant pastor I have no idea why anyone would want the job. But that’s me. If a woman wants to serve in that way, or as deacons, there’s no good reason to keep them out. Who knows, if the Church opened its roles wider, to laypeople and women as deacons, and in other ministries, there just might be more people wanting to become priests and religious.
The discussion surrounding women in positions of authority within the Church often misses a key theological understanding: the distinct and complementary roles of men and women as designed by God. In the Church, authority is not merely about power but about the sacred duty to protect, defend, and, if necessary, sacrifice oneself for the faith. This responsibility has been entrusted to men, who are called to guard the truth of the Gospel and uphold the integrity of the Church’s teachings. St. John Chrysostom, a revered Church Father, emphasizes this distinction: "The woman taught once, and ruined all. On this account... let her not teach. For the authority over men is given to men, not women" (*Homilies on Timothy* 9). Chrysostom highlights that while women have unique gifts, teaching and authority within the Church are not among them due to the divine order established since creation. St. Jerome also reflects on the complementary roles of men and women, stating, “The Church does not admit of female priests; this is not a question of inferiority but one of divinely established order” (*Against Jovinianus* 1.34). Jerome underscores that this distinction is not about inequality but about preserving the sacred roles that God has ordained. St. Augustine further adds, “It is not that women are of lesser dignity... but the structure of the Church reflects the order of creation itself, where man is the head as Christ is the head of the Church” (*On the Trinity* 12.7). Augustine’s insight reflects that this order is essential for the Church's spiritual well-being and alignment with God's design. Therefore, when the Church entrusts the protection and leadership of the faith to men, it is not a denial of women’s value but a recognition of God’s established order. Women, through their nurturing and unifying nature, contribute profoundly to the life of the Church, but the defense of doctrine and the guardianship of faith have been divinely appointed to men. To blur these roles risks undermining the Church's mission and the spiritual protection it requires.
Stop your non-sense, unintelligible mansplaining. Jesus chose Mary Magdalene as the apostle to witness and teach about resurrection to twelve men. That is enough evidence for me.
@@simonweiwang Mary Madelene was not an apostle. The 12 were the first priests of the Catholic Church. There's a difference between apostle and disciple.
@@simonweiwang It's actually quite intelligible, espeicially in context of how Gnostics and Pagans did things (female deacons AND "Priests"). BTW, have you considered what killed the Anglican Ecclesiastical Lay Community? Here's a clue, it starts with F, and ends in emale ordination.
No one mentioned and noted that recently the Orthodox Church ordained a women deacon as revival of an ancient tradition....please resct abd comment Catholic keaders....
The Orthodox and Catholic Churches are sister churches so what one sister does is intensely important to the other...1100 years ago we were one....always yearn for that time again
Phoebe was not the only deacon named in the Bible. Philip [in Acts, not the Apostle Philip] and Stephen were deacons. As I understand it deaconesses were more like religious sisters [nuns] than they were to male deacons. In 1994, Pope St John Paul II made a definitive statement against the ordination of women [Ordinatio sacerdotalis, JPII, 1994]
“The church is entitled to all the grace God gives the church. Now, one of those graces is the grace of the diaconate. And secondly, that there are many people already in the church exercising the church’s diakonia.” WHY BE STINGY WITH GRACE? Why NOT give women deacons the strength of the sacrament to be empowered and blessed with the gifts of the Holy Spirit in order to better serve the people of God, adding grace upon grace?
Incorrect. There is no infallible statement on women deacons, only a statement that women cannot become priests that, in the opinion of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that must be held definitively. That is not the same as infallible.
What is the deal with women wanting to be in everything. Women already play an important role in the Church. Look what Mother Angelica had done or St Mother Teresa did. STOP!!!!!!!! changing the way the church is. If you don’t like it go somewhere else. The way the church is its because of Jesus. Remember deacon is a greek word so find the old definition in greek. Mary and Mary of Magdalene didn’t complain because they couldn’t be one.
I wonder if you would be open to posing the question in a slightly different way ---- is the Holy Spirit calling women to be deacons? Is the Spirit calling the Church to ordain women as deacons? How would we know? Many women discern (and are called forth into such roles by their community!) and then struggle to navigate the tension between a call & commitment to the communities they serve and lead, and a deep love and fidelity to the Church. It's not about "wanting to be in everything" --- it's about seeking to be faithful to Jesus, to where He leads... which can be very difficult and confusing, when it's not a current possible path to follow in the Church as it is today. Do we think that women are fundamentally "unordainable?" -- that God cannot and would not? Or have we gotten confused across the centuries, and in that confusion we have forgotten something that was a part of our early church, and which we could restore to help meet the needs of mission and evangelization today. More than anything -- I would hope we can hold space for each other's questions, stories, and lives of faith -- and not dismiss women who have hope and a stake in this conversation as being heretical or fomenting division. We are fellow baptized Catholics, raised by and formed in our Church's beautiful tradition -- we want to serve in it, we already are -- but we experience constraints on a daily basis, often without complaint or fuss because we don't want to be seen as against the church. During COVID, only ordained clergy were permitted in our local jail to visit people there, the same with our federal facility -- so people went without visits during an incredibly distressing time, when the presence of the Church could have been a sign that they were not forgotten. That is one difference that ordination to the diaconate could make.
@@caseystanton597 The Holy Spirit is calling everyone to be Holy. But just like Joseph Smith who said i saw Jesus and he told me to write a new bible for his new" church “. No I don’t think so. The Holy Spirit will take what God made and work on that but will NOT CHANGE WHAT GOD HAS CREATED. Mary said to call her Blessed. She didn’t take her gift to be above everyone. So why can’t women fallow her example. That is why i said Mother Angelica and St Mother Teres. I guess you didn’t read my message great. There are so many wonderful women in the Church that don’t want to be above everyone. St Faustina is another wonderful person. PLEASE LEARN OF THE SAINTS BEFORE WE DECIDE ON SOMETHING
just as the priesthood developed into the state we have now, women deacons did and can develop. the priests today are not exactly what st century presbyteroi were.
@@RedRiverMan You need to read church history and not listen to what other people say. Good luck. So sad. Read this directly from the bible. Is not my word but God’s word. If you don’t want to believe me ask God to change it. Ephesians 5:22 “1 Timothy 3:1-13 “ what is a deacon 2 St Peter 3:16 Everyone including me should read this. Go get help and understand what you are saying. Acts 6:1-7 talk about the women who LOST THERE HUSBANDS and ask for new MEN to replace them. To conclude St Matthew 12:46-50 “Who is my mother and brother ?” Let us stop using TITLES and what POSITION I NEED TO BE IN, but like follower of Jesus do the will of his Father. Now worry about anything else. Like i said if you don’t like it. God gave you free will to go somewhere else. Just don’t blame anyone why things happen to you. Pray the Rosary
What those women "deacon" were in early Church History were the original nuns. Jesus was a man. These women are REALLY interested in pushing through to the Holy Priesthood. A priest is in persona Christi. Man. Man. Man.
+JMJ The Church is not the Phil Donahue Show where the studio audience can vote and the majority rules on what Truth is. Synodality is worse. It's a foreordained conclusion with the veneer of popular support. If the Lord had wanted women deacons we would have had them long ago. He did not do so given His divine plan for men and women. I want the restoration of the major and minor orders. That would be much more useful and fruitful for the Church. Stop dividing the Church by modernist flavor of the day. Please start serving the Lord, America Magazine, instead of your woke agenda. It's no wonder New Order churches continue to close. You really have lost the Catholic faith.
@@karenobrien6083+JMJ We both love the Church but I cannot accept women deacons as much as I have great difficulty with nontransitional male deacons. The Jesuits were once a great order. They are now in serious decline and this Jesuit pope is repelling vocations. As to your statement, how long did that last? Not long. Tradition constantly taught that men would be ordained in persona Christi. There is no evidence of female ordination. In the 50 years of the Novus Ordo, belief in the Real Presence is only 30% of the mere 17% of American Catholics who actually attend the Novus Ordo Mass on Sunday. The numbers are worse in pagan Europe where in Italy, the seat of the papacy, only 10% attend.The Liturgy has everything to do with that travesty in its irreverence, banality, dissonance, sacrilege, self showcasing and self idolatry. Deaconesses will exacerbate an already sorry and disastrous Liturgy and only ensure the failure and closure of more Novus Ordo churches. The answer is to restore the Traditional Latin Mass of the Ages. That Mass is thriving, is rife with young families, children, Catholic culture and vocations. It attracts men who are the most difficult to bring into church. Dominus vobiscum.
@@Scott8346 +JMJ No evidence whatsoever that that isolated use of term meant an ordained order of the priesthood. The reference is inconclusive and interpreted in that light constantly by the Fathers a d the Magisterium--most recently Paul VI in 1977, JP2 and Francis in an interview.
@@Scott8346 +JMJ The isolated reference, given the use the term "deacon" at the time as a generic servant, makes it inconclusive at best as any justification for ordination of women. That is the constant teaching from the Fathers and the Magisterium. The priesthood of which the diaconate is an order is in persona Christi. A deacon cannot be a woman. Dominus vobiscum.
I can tell you this much. When I was baptized the doctrine/dogma of the church was that women could never ever be priets. An ordained deacon is part of the priesthood. I won't be part of a church that "changes" it's mind on matters that are unchangeable. It won't be me leaving the catholic church, it will be all those who are trying to make a new church.
Please LEAVE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ALONE.
JUST STOP ALL THIS NONSENSE.
Pleasant to see a bishop in this video, speaking even-handedly, at that.
I appreciate the information in this video as a former Evangelical coming into the Catholic Church, however, sadly, it’s obvious that the divisiveness in the non-denom world exists in Catholicism as well. I don’t understand the issue with discussing and discerning. That’s what we do with our faith. We question and we keep digging. That’s actually what led me to the Catholic Church. It’s disheartening to see several in the comments basically saying “get over it because it’s always been this way.” If there’s ever a sign something needs attention, it’s when people say that it doesn’t need tending to😂 Thanks again for sharing this. I have hope we will make the right decision as a church.
@@theemoryquince Absolutely! God gave us brains, it'd be pretty odd if He didn't expect us to use them. We have a really long tradition of people grappling with issues of the faith, plenty of them much bigger on a theological level than the role of the diaconate, and that intellectual curiosity has ultimately lead people throughout the centuries to learn more about God and one another. If we lose that divinely created intellectual curiosity, and just accept matters of faith unquestioningly-just going "Well, it's always been this way" or "That's just the way it is"-we'll miss out on opportunities to delve deeper into the nature of God, ever-ancient and ever-new, and His vision for humanity. We have to have the courage to answer new questions, as well as find ways to translate old answers for new historical and cultural contexts, and have the confidence that the Holy Spirit guides His Church just as Jesus said He does.
@theemoryquince +JMJ What you see is the woke Protestantization of the Church since V2. And since V2 you see a precipitous decline in US Church in Mass attendance (95% in 1955 to 17% today and much worse in Europe) a decline in vocations, plummeting marriages and infant baptism and Novus Ordo churches closing. During those 50 years, the sexual abuse crisis enabled by the lax Novus Ordo became acute with a growing gay clergy. This crisis reflects a watering down and loss of the Faith. Fortunately there remain lights in the Church. They are found in Traditional Latin Mass communities where numbers are growing in large young families and vocations. Christ will never abandon His bride. Dominus vobiscum.
You are right, we should be discerning not pushing or merely talking and raising issues, instead of praying and prepping the ground and the heart.
@@brianbacon5149what are all these things you are talking, that's not what the comment you are responding to is pointing to, read it again please. She is saying, women must discern not talk or create issues.
@chiomanwaogu7555 +JMJ. Of course I'm addressing her comment. She notices divisiveness in the Church. I'm providing information why. It comes down to us doing what we want to do and not what God wants us to do: i.e. turn to Him with a humble heart, seek forgiveness of our sins, eat of His Flesh and live in beatitude. Dominus vobiscum.
I think women should concentrate on their families and children more as they did in the olden days. I dont believe in womens lib. Good decent men respect good women and listen to what they say. Men and women have different roles. This merging of the sexes is stupid. Men and women are so different in many ways. They have different needs and strengths and God made us in this His way.
The pro women deacons camp, for whom this is just a stepping stone to women priests, manifest (perfect word) at least two errors that show they are unfit to be Catholic, let alone clergy.
First, they do not know the Church is protected by Jesus and led by the Holy Spirit, or if they do know, likely resist Jesus’ teachings as they do the Church’s teachings.
The other problem is they want to couch the argument in feminist terms, “Oh, the patriarchal structure is keeping us down and they think we aren’t equal or worthy”. That is the devil speaking through them. The women who financed and provided help in Jesus’ ministry were not deacons and is this not His Church? Are you going to call God a misogynist as well?
Quit attacking the Church from within and if you will not accept Church teaching which was received from Jesus, take your Protestant hearts to a Protestant Church. You can be a minister there.
First, it is highly inappropriate for any Catholic to show his brother or sister to the door. We are all baptized Catholics. Second, we are all of us created in God's image and likeness and that likeness has nothing to do with genitalia. Jesus was incarnated as a male in first century Palestine because the culture was patriarchal. Had the culture been matriarchal, the Second Person of the Trinity would have been incarnated as a female, perhaps named Johanna.
Third, Jesus Himself was not a priest (there was an active priestly tribe in His time to which He did not belong). He ordained no women and no men. He Himself was a layman. Our current understanding of ordination and hierarchy owes much to the Romans and the Jews.
Fourth: All are equal in God's eyes. The Church has seven sacraments, yet women are allowed to receive only six of them. Bestowing ordination to the diaconate and priesthood on women is a matter of justice. The Church will never be truly whole or truly holy if we continue to ignore that fact.
Fifth: The standard argument against female ordination is that it is a power grab by women. Is that why men are so anxious to protect the priesthood? Are they just really scared to share the power?
@@lizbueding2626 you indicate you are Catholic yet your entire argument is post modern secularism and contradicts Catholic teaching.
As a layperson, I can’t show you the door but I can disabuse you of false beliefs you hold. People are put out and let in the Church every day by bishops.
You say Jesus is not a priest and He did not ordain anyone. The Church teaches He is the high priest, prophet and king. He established the priesthood and ordained the apostles in the upper room. He revealed God as Father and Himself as Son and He ordained male disciples.
Your beliefs about societal norms of the day are not part of divinely revealed truths and probably baseless, because the women and John at the crucifixion and the first witnesses to see our resurrected Lord undoes your secular argument.
Your belief the Church is unjust and unholy (unless it disregards Jesus’ example) is an admission you are already trusting your own judgement over the Church’s. I call that a Protestant heart.
@lizbueding2626 what nonsense. Do you know anything about Catholicism or even Christianity in general?
I am catholic but have an unorthodox approach to this. I feel that the Church probably erred when clericalizing deacons. In the Book of Acts, the diaconate was created for the manual task of managing food distribution precisely so that the apostles could focus on the priestly work. The Church could very well anoint hordes of volunteers as deacons without confining the role to priestly duties.
No.
This matter was already settled by jpii
No it was not. Time to reveal to the Catholic people explicitly all the results of the historical research...why is the Pope saying no?????
@@CONDACOCLIPS Francis said no because jpii formally said no. It was defined by the ordinary magisterium already.
You are wrong.
Didn’t like the answer soooooo more study. Mary could carry Christ in her body but a woman cannot carry Christ
In her hand.
@@jperez7893 There is no such thing as the ordinary magisterium. The Church has not officially spoken on this issue. It is a matter of discipline (like the former Friday fast) and can be changed by the pope at any time. Francis (and JPII ) may well have said no, but that does not forever close the issue.
Jesus had many women followers and he still chose 12 men so I think it should stay that way. Women have many roles in the Church as followers of Christ.
Thank you for this beautiful video and conversation. St. Phoebe, pray for us!
Fascinating to see that at every turn, the Church has expressed an openness to continued discernment around the question of women in the diaconate, but without ever advancing toward a conclusion. I think Ms. Cahill asks the right question: “For how long can an open discernment go on?” I respect Father McKnight’s concern that we don’t rush the discernment, but I also feel in my bones the Church’s statements in Synod documents that addressing women’s voices in the Church is “urgent”!
Women still can have a voice even without being part of the diaconate. Of course the diaconate is not part of the sacrament, but it seems like the Catholics who want women deacons so bad tend to come from a very modernist perspective that women deserve more power. It's fine to have women deacons, but our reasons for them should go beyond giving them power or giving them "a voice" or other similar reasons. That means we should have very, very, very, very good reasons to have women deacons. This is an issue beyond just plain fairness.
@@MontfortracingThere are so many women working in Church ministry today… Why would we not want to afford them the opportunity to strengthen their work through the sacramental grace of the Holy Spirit? If we truly believe what we say about the power of the Spirit and the grace found in the sacraments, we should have very, very, very, very good reasons for withholding it from women.
@@aaronsinner7314 that's because sacramental graces work differently. Those graces aren't just for everyone. Why would you need the sacramental grace from Holy Unction if you're not dying? Why would you need the sacramental grace of Holy Matrimony if you're not getting married?
Also, each sacrament is different. For one, we don't give the Eucharist to everyone. Plus, it was Jesus who gave us the seven sacraments, if He would've wanted women to be priests if He conferred the Holy Orders for them, but He didn't. I can't get any sacramental grace from Holy Order or Matrimony or Unction cuz none of those apply, yet I volunteer for the Church.
There are monks who work for the Church, even have leadership positions, yet they don't get Holy Orders. Sacraments are different from something like actual grace, and actual grace is for everyone, and I think atheists can even receive actual grace.
@@Montfortracing Sacraments aren’t the only path to grace, but they are nonetheless a special outpouring of grace that strengthens the faithful, right? Naturally, one must be appropriately eligible… but when we are bestowing God’s grace, don’t we owe it to the faithful to make those doors as wide as God will possibly allow? Along those lines, I've noticed in recent years an expanded willingness on the Church's part to administer Anointing of the Sick to any who are ailing, not just those on death's door. (I received the sacrament in college when I mentioned an upcoming, non-life threatening surgery to a priest, and he enthusiastically extended an invitation to the sacrament that I hadn't anticipated. I've witnessed this trend beyond that interaction, as well.)
During his earthly life, Jesus conferred what we might think of as Holy Orders only upon circumcised male Jews. Yet we’ve opened up ordination beyond circumcised men of Jewish descent, haven’t we? How do we know what traits Jesus intended to be intrinsic and which were extraneous? We have to look to the early Church, Tradition, and divine revelation. This video makes clear those sources at minimum leave open the door of possibility to diaconal ordination for women. The Church hasn't taught this is a closed topic; it has expressed an openness to discernment about the matter.
@@aaronsinner7314 yes of course the sacraments are not the only paths to grace. That's why I mentioned actual grace. There are many other types of grace cuz God is a loving God. As for the sacraments, we have to understand the theology behind them, and we have 2000 years of theology and writings on the sacraments. Perhaps that'll be a good start for us to better understand them than to just have modernist views about them. Vatican II documents would also be another place to see what they said about the sacraments. As for women deacons, there's nothing wrong with having them in the Church. But seriously, we need to get away from the modernist thinking of wanting women deacons, and have better reasons for having them.
There are seven named men explicitly ordained by the laying of hands to the office of deacon (indicated here by the verb diakoneo, not the noun) in Acts 6: "The proposal was acceptable to the whole community, so they chose Stephen, a man filled with faith and the holy Spirit, also Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicholas of Antioch, a convert to Judaism."
Thank you for this, it very clearly gave the background, with as much detail as possible. It made me wonder why men appear so afraid of the possibility of having women deacons. The argument of "If the Lord had wanted women deacons we would have had them long ago. He did not do so given His divine plan for men and women," in my opinion, does not ring true. Maybe the Lord wanted us to see a need and fill that need. In any event, when I get to ask Him, I'm sure He'll let me know.
+JMJ You haul the entire Faith before your court of subjectivism and gnostic wishful thinking. It's divisive. The Magisterium has consistently taught throughout the ages in actual practice no ordained women. Women do not belong o the altar let alone as deacons. Yet you think you have the authority to change Scripture and Tradition. Bergoglio thought he could authorize Holy Communion to unrepentant sinners. He can't change constant teaching from our Lord and the Apostles anymore than you can. I have received the gift of Fear of the Lord in the holy Sacrament of Confirmation. I fear Him far more than I fear the folly of women deacons. This magical thinking is witchcraft and will never be accepted by faithful Catholics. Churches will continue to close. Your suggestion lacks faith is Gnostic, Protestant and heretical.
@@brianbacon5149Even if you fully believe you're in the right, there's no need to disrespect other perspectives, that's not exactly an effective means of persuasion; and being scared of them makes even less sense from our Catholic perspective in particular. With all due respect, do you have the faith that the Holy Spirit guides His Church through the Vicar of Christ, that the gates of Hell will not prevail against it, or not? When one's ever concerned about different movements like this, I honestly think it's best to remember the words of Gamaliel in Acts 5: If it's of human origin, it will fail; but, if it's from God, it is not something that will be able to be overcome, and those opposing it may find themselves opposing God. Have some faith in the grace given to the Apostles-the Church isn't perfect, because we're not perfect; God still His Church, come what may.
@isaac_buckley +JMJ There is no disrespect. Perhaps you mistake directness for disrespect. As to being scared that's also mistaken. My fear is of the Lord, not of deaconesses or discussions thereon. As to this pope, he has done many bad things including the harboring of molesters and abusers. On top of that he has circulated a number of heresies in direct conflict with the teachings of Christ the Head of the Church and constant church teaching and Tradition.The Angelic Doctor teaches Catholics to resist and not follow false teachings from the hierarchy. Summa Theologiae II, ii, Q 38.The Lord spits out the lukewarm and tramples on salt that loses its flavor. Directness in bearing the Lord's truth can be hot and salty. Dominus vobiscum.
I so agree
@@brianbacon5149You are well educated, praise God.
Someone recently gave me a book on the Jesuit order, but upod research, I have heard a lot of negative imput, being so progressive and woke. That's a no from me.
A very informative and well-made documentary, thank you! It felt like a very balanced and levelheaded perspective; taking into account both our faith's history, as complex as it can be, and what our pastoral needs are today.
If it's SO important to you, joun a Protestant Faith. Did you see what happened when we started allowing girls to be altar servers, the boys leave along with the men, as in their presence in the pews. Just look around.
Appreciate historical perspective and open inquiry yet in place
So when you push and get woman deacon, should I expect to see woman to become priest. Where does it stop if you continue to change the theology? This will never happen in my lifetime and hope it never does.
Whether or not a woman can be a deacon or a Priest is not theology. It is a tradition that should have no place in the church .
@@1780scottie I think a good example where calling someone something doesn’t make them the same thing. We have one Father in heaven and He is part of the Trinity. However Paul called himself father, does that mean he the our one true Father I. Heaven or is he considering himself a spiritual father. I believe calls Phoebe a deacon because she is a servant to Paul and the Church, just not an ordained Deacon.
Something I learned through research in the word diakonos doesn’t only mean an ordained servant to Church, a lay person can also be servant to the church just not ordained.
Alleluia Amen indeed, no matter if women's deacon as long as really holy and wisdom ❤❤❤
Why can't we use the word deaconess? I like it better than deacon. It implies no inferiority.
It is a diminutive, a less than.
very liberal response no surprise and nice job trying to go around what the pope has arleady said.
People who see my comment I warn you do not support this channel or pay attention to them they support people like fr. James Martin who publicly dissents against the church and confuses good and holy catholics. By the grace of the god the new young priest of America are becoming more orthodox and conservative. Remember hard preaching softens hearts and soft preaching hardens hearts.
I’ll definitely be sure to support this channel and spread the news about diaconesses! I’m excited to dive in and read more about it!
God please 🙏 bring back the traditional priestly orders 🙏 its what we really need now❤⛪️
Amen
Women have always served in the positions regarding the word and charity.
This was exceedingly eye-opening🧐 Frankly, I am now more sympathetic🙄 towards the idea🤔 However, I foresee at least one major theological difficulty💥💣 in having women🙋♀ preaching homilies at mass as this would contradict St. Paul's exhortation against women possessing that kind of authority🥴. I can see Pp. Francis not making a definitive decision and merely 'kicking the can further down the road' 🤷♂
But they are only men!
Every time I hear a whine from the pulpit about the need for more priests or nuns I just want to holler. Vatican II made it very clear that the laity needed to be more fully integrated into the Church, but that instruction has been widely ignored or minimized, especially in the American church. Clericalism will never end as long as we keep encouraging priests (and consecrated - but especially priests) to think of themselves as special over any other ministry. They are important and their ROLE as necessary but not superior. Lay ministry should not only be for old people who are bored with life. It should be open and available to everyone who wants to serve. Broadening and opening different kinds and roles of ministry without regard to gender is necessary. On the other hand, as the child of a Protestant pastor I have no idea why anyone would want the job. But that’s me. If a woman wants to serve in that way, or as deacons, there’s no good reason to keep them out. Who knows, if the Church opened its roles wider, to laypeople and women as deacons, and in other ministries, there just might be more people wanting to become priests and religious.
lib
@@NicholasJude-d3zLib with a utilitarian pov.
The discussion surrounding women in positions of authority within the Church often misses a key theological understanding: the distinct and complementary roles of men and women as designed by God. In the Church, authority is not merely about power but about the sacred duty to protect, defend, and, if necessary, sacrifice oneself for the faith. This responsibility has been entrusted to men, who are called to guard the truth of the Gospel and uphold the integrity of the Church’s teachings.
St. John Chrysostom, a revered Church Father, emphasizes this distinction: "The woman taught once, and ruined all. On this account... let her not teach. For the authority over men is given to men, not women" (*Homilies on Timothy* 9). Chrysostom highlights that while women have unique gifts, teaching and authority within the Church are not among them due to the divine order established since creation.
St. Jerome also reflects on the complementary roles of men and women, stating, “The Church does not admit of female priests; this is not a question of inferiority but one of divinely established order” (*Against Jovinianus* 1.34). Jerome underscores that this distinction is not about inequality but about preserving the sacred roles that God has ordained.
St. Augustine further adds, “It is not that women are of lesser dignity... but the structure of the Church reflects the order of creation itself, where man is the head as Christ is the head of the Church” (*On the Trinity* 12.7). Augustine’s insight reflects that this order is essential for the Church's spiritual well-being and alignment with God's design.
Therefore, when the Church entrusts the protection and leadership of the faith to men, it is not a denial of women’s value but a recognition of God’s established order. Women, through their nurturing and unifying nature, contribute profoundly to the life of the Church, but the defense of doctrine and the guardianship of faith have been divinely appointed to men. To blur these roles risks undermining the Church's mission and the spiritual protection it requires.
How do you account for St John Chrysostom's understanding of ordained women deacons?
Stop your non-sense, unintelligible mansplaining. Jesus chose Mary Magdalene as the apostle to witness and teach about resurrection to twelve men. That is enough evidence for me.
@@simonweiwang Mary Madelene was not an apostle. The 12 were the first priests of the Catholic Church. There's a difference between apostle and disciple.
But that doesn't mean women aren't allowed to hold leadership positions in the Catholic Church. They just can't be in holy orders.
@@simonweiwang It's actually quite intelligible, espeicially in context of how Gnostics and Pagans did things (female deacons AND "Priests"). BTW, have you considered what killed the Anglican Ecclesiastical Lay Community? Here's a clue, it starts with F, and ends in emale ordination.
This twist so many texts it's crazy
I'm curious what texts?
No one mentioned and noted that recently the Orthodox Church ordained a women deacon as revival of an ancient tradition....please resct abd comment Catholic keaders....
Is the Orthodox Church in communion with the Catholic? No, do why the comment
The Orthodox and Catholic Churches are sister churches so what one sister does is intensely important to the other...1100 years ago we were one....always yearn for that time again
Phoebe was not the only deacon named in the Bible. Philip [in Acts, not the Apostle Philip] and Stephen were deacons. As I understand it deaconesses were more like religious sisters [nuns] than they were to male deacons. In 1994, Pope St John Paul II made a definitive statement against the ordination of women [Ordinatio sacerdotalis, JPII, 1994]
+JMJ As did Paul VI in 1977.
The COJTC should put women's deaconate on their discussion agenda immediately
Given the advancements in AI, do you foresee a future where AI entities could serve as spiritual guides, be they priests or other spiritual leaders?
...Catholic leaders.... speak... were they wrong??
“The church is entitled to all the grace God gives the church. Now, one of those graces is the grace of the diaconate. And secondly, that there are many people already in the church exercising the church’s diakonia.” WHY BE STINGY WITH GRACE? Why NOT give women deacons the strength of the sacrament to be empowered and blessed with the gifts of the Holy Spirit in order to better serve the people of God, adding grace upon grace?
they women cannot have holy orders this is infallible and JPII said this
Incorrect. There is no infallible statement on women deacons, only a statement that women cannot become priests that, in the opinion of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that must be held definitively. That is not the same as infallible.
The men in power in the Church hate women. That may sound harsh but read the the writing of the church fathers.
The men in power in the Church hate women. That may sound harsh but read the the writing of the church fathers.
What is the deal with women wanting to be in everything. Women already play an important role in the Church. Look what Mother Angelica had done or St Mother Teresa did. STOP!!!!!!!! changing the way the church is. If you don’t like it go somewhere else. The way the church is its because of Jesus. Remember deacon is a greek word so find the old definition in greek. Mary and Mary of Magdalene didn’t complain because they couldn’t be one.
I wonder if you would be open to posing the question in a slightly different way ---- is the Holy Spirit calling women to be deacons? Is the Spirit calling the Church to ordain women as deacons? How would we know? Many women discern (and are called forth into such roles by their community!) and then struggle to navigate the tension between a call & commitment to the communities they serve and lead, and a deep love and fidelity to the Church.
It's not about "wanting to be in everything" --- it's about seeking to be faithful to Jesus, to where He leads... which can be very difficult and confusing, when it's not a current possible path to follow in the Church as it is today.
Do we think that women are fundamentally "unordainable?" -- that God cannot and would not? Or have we gotten confused across the centuries, and in that confusion we have forgotten something that was a part of our early church, and which we could restore to help meet the needs of mission and evangelization today.
More than anything -- I would hope we can hold space for each other's questions, stories, and lives of faith -- and not dismiss women who have hope and a stake in this conversation as being heretical or fomenting division. We are fellow baptized Catholics, raised by and formed in our Church's beautiful tradition -- we want to serve in it, we already are -- but we experience constraints on a daily basis, often without complaint or fuss because we don't want to be seen as against the church. During COVID, only ordained clergy were permitted in our local jail to visit people there, the same with our federal facility -- so people went without visits during an incredibly distressing time, when the presence of the Church could have been a sign that they were not forgotten. That is one difference that ordination to the diaconate could make.
@@caseystanton597
The Holy Spirit is calling everyone to be Holy. But just like Joseph Smith who said i saw Jesus and he told me to write a new bible for his new" church “. No I don’t think so. The Holy Spirit will take what God made and work on that but will NOT CHANGE WHAT GOD HAS CREATED. Mary said to call her Blessed. She didn’t take her gift to be above everyone. So why can’t women fallow her example. That is why i said Mother Angelica and St Mother Teres. I guess you didn’t read my message great. There are so many wonderful women in the Church that don’t want to be above everyone. St Faustina is another wonderful person. PLEASE LEARN OF THE SAINTS BEFORE WE DECIDE ON SOMETHING
just as the priesthood developed into the state we have now, women deacons did and can develop. the priests today are not exactly what st century presbyteroi were.
@@RedRiverMan
You need to read church history and not listen to what other people say. Good luck. So sad. Read this directly from the bible. Is not my word but God’s word. If you don’t want to believe me ask God to change it.
Ephesians 5:22
“1 Timothy 3:1-13 “ what is a deacon
2 St Peter 3:16
Everyone including me should read this. Go get help and understand what you are saying.
Acts 6:1-7 talk about the women who LOST THERE HUSBANDS and ask for new MEN to replace them.
To conclude
St Matthew 12:46-50
“Who is my mother and brother ?”
Let us stop using TITLES and what POSITION I NEED TO BE IN, but like follower of Jesus do the will of his Father. Now worry about anything else.
Like i said if you don’t like it. God gave you free will to go somewhere else. Just don’t blame anyone why things happen to you.
Pray the Rosary
@@RedRiverMan
Even the evil one read the bible but confused men. Don’t believe me???
Read St Matthew 4:5-7 “read carefully “
What those women "deacon" were in early Church History were the original nuns. Jesus was a man. These women are REALLY interested in pushing through to the Holy Priesthood. A priest is in persona Christi. Man. Man. Man.
we will have deaconesses again, just a matter of time. The Church is a Body, it is organic and grows and changes and returns all at once
+JMJ Jesus Christ is the same, yesterday, today and forever. Heb. 13:8.
🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
The Warning is coming very soon !!!!!!!!
+JMJ The Church is not the Phil Donahue Show where the studio audience can vote and the majority rules on what Truth is. Synodality is worse. It's a foreordained conclusion with the veneer of popular support. If the Lord had wanted women deacons we would have had them long ago. He did not do so given His divine plan for men and women. I want the restoration of the major and minor orders. That would be much more useful and fruitful for the Church. Stop dividing the Church by modernist flavor of the day. Please start serving the Lord, America Magazine, instead of your woke agenda. It's no wonder New Order churches continue to close. You really have lost the Catholic faith.
They DID have women deacons long ago. You need to take a class on New Testament scripture and church history from, say, a Jesuit college.
check out Romans 16:1-2
@@karenobrien6083+JMJ We both love the Church but I cannot accept women deacons as much as I have great difficulty with nontransitional male deacons. The Jesuits were once a great order. They are now in serious decline and this Jesuit pope is repelling vocations. As to your statement, how long did that last? Not long. Tradition constantly taught that men would be ordained in persona Christi. There is no evidence of female ordination. In the 50 years of the Novus Ordo, belief in the Real Presence is only 30% of the mere 17% of American Catholics who actually attend the Novus Ordo Mass on Sunday. The numbers are worse in pagan Europe where in Italy, the seat of the papacy, only 10% attend.The Liturgy has everything to do with that travesty in its irreverence, banality, dissonance, sacrilege, self showcasing and self idolatry. Deaconesses will exacerbate an already sorry and disastrous Liturgy and only ensure the failure and closure of more Novus Ordo churches. The answer is to restore the Traditional Latin Mass of the Ages. That Mass is thriving, is rife with young families, children, Catholic culture and vocations. It attracts men who are the most difficult to bring into church. Dominus vobiscum.
@@Scott8346 +JMJ No evidence whatsoever that that isolated use of term meant an ordained order of the priesthood. The reference is inconclusive and interpreted in that light constantly by the Fathers a d the Magisterium--most recently Paul VI in 1977, JP2 and Francis in an interview.
@@Scott8346 +JMJ The isolated reference, given the use the term "deacon" at the time as a generic servant, makes it inconclusive at best as any justification for ordination of women. That is the constant teaching from the Fathers and the Magisterium. The priesthood of which the diaconate is an order is in persona Christi. A deacon cannot be a woman. Dominus vobiscum.