Well at least he has good heat penetration hahaha!He probably does med gas! It takes adjustment even very experienced guys can do this lmao! It happens. It takes me half the day to get back into the "solder zone "after oxy/acetylene brazing too much.
My thought too. I feel like a turbo torch with acetylene shouldn't go with solder. Well, maybe for soldering a large flange on a water line. I've seen too many copper fittings expand to the point that the joint wouldn't hold the solder in. It's just too much heat.
You’ve burnt a lot of that Flux and that’s a recall just waiting to happen. As far as soldering vs ProPress it’s hard to choose one over the other. I use both based on the circumstance.
In Australia soft solder has been banned,and silver brazing is used(welding rods with higher melting point) which are premium joint garanteed for life....i also use both mainly to save money on press brass fittings,so i prefab some of my brass connectors such as male/female ion which are prefab brazed,so its cheaper and more of a premium job...
Same here. If I’m doing work inside a wall or any other area like that I’ll use press fittings. On water heaters and open areas I’ll solder the fittings
I left the trade due to health issues but I've only soldered copper from 1/2 to 2 inch. Mostly pool plumbing. I enjoyed some days you were soldering and some days you were gluing PVC. The variety was always welcomed
The last company i worked for before retiring would only use the pro press on 1 1/2 and larger pipe. I started plumbing in 1970, and i still remember my first solder joint.
@@johnchonka2052 yeah well there's this thing called technology where they bring out new things that make the job easier and faster while keeping the same reliability.
@@dylancampbell8064 Yea and liberals think technology and robots will replace plumbers one day also. Soldering is proven so don't try to fix it. Go live in California where you can make a technology to clean up poop the the street
@@johnchonka2052 Solder and press both have a lot of advantages and disadvantages, I use both according to situation. I won't go near a job without both tool sets.
For me, anything inside the wall or attic I prefer solder. Anything that’s accessible outside the wall like a water heater, softener, etc. pro press is awesome!
I had a boss that would inspect all my apprentice solder joints just to make sure he couldn't hang his hat on it. Taught me real quick how to make clean and proper joints. Left the trade way before press fit cam about but still love to learn the trade.
solder joints are either good or bad. if it's a good joint, the pipe will fail before the joint. if it's a bad joint, it leaks from the get-go. there's advantages to that.
From the get-go is relative but generally yes. There are numerous accounts of prepped solder joints that someone forgot to torch holding under pressure for days, weeks or even longer before blowing loose.
I'd love for you to cut your pipe to see if you had excess solder inside causing turbulence in the line which causes pinhole leaks. I work in a place that uses both and the pinholes are vastly more common by solder joints.
Theres times the press tool wont fit in a spot you're working in and you have to solder, not being allowed to solder is ridiculous. Also thought we were brazing that joint for a second haha
Reminds me of the first time I used an air-acetylene torch to solder. I cooked that fitting so bad I had to get another one. I quickly learned you mostly just have to show the pipe you have an acetylene torch and that gets it hot enough.
Ive had to solder half inch copper that was pressed right up against wood with virtually no play or space without chiseling out the wood or shoving a flat screwdriver behind the pipe temporarily to be able to solder on a joint. Soldering isn't ever going to be 100% gone. Not as long as there is copper being used anywhere in the building
Holy cow! Is this his first time soldering? He really torched the living daylights out of that coupler. I only have an okay amount of experience with soldering copper and even I know better. Roger, if your goal is to make a case for still using solder, make sure you do it perfectly on camera next time. Otherwise great video! Keep up the good work Roger!
I am a new apprentice. I have done both and have to agree press is the future. I recently changed 30 feet cold and hot water of copper pipes in less than 30 min. If we're to solder it would have taken me no less than four hours.
4 hours? Someone experienced with solder wouldn't take that long. I have to say, pro press is actually probably bad for plumbers overall. Anyone can do a pro press fitting. Way more homeowners will do their own plumbing with PEX and pro press. Way less so with soldering.
@@joshdiehl8737 I'm experienced and 30 ft of pipe can take longer than 4 hours if we are drilling through walls or tiles. Also finding different routes to bring new water lines takes time. If 30 ft of straight pipe then I can do that in less than a hour
I was going to say that, the fitting was cooked and the flux vaporized. But I figure he did it on purpose for the demonstration to show a rookie mistake.
Propress is great tool but I find the tool fails quiet often and always needs repairs. I also find it hard to keep things straight and clean looking. That being said the propress is amazing on jobs where you have that constant drip that makes soldering impossible as well as being able to make repairs a lot quicker.
I've had pro press fittings leaking after two years on a new install. Not mine I only solder. Too prove to the customer that solder is king I soldered the pro press fittings and all is good. Do a video on that!
Solder is very much used in the commercial Industry. I’m 23 and I’ve soldered probably 80% of the water line joints that I’ve ever made. If I’m running DWV it’s either pvc or cast iron. Usually pvc, unless im running a big job that is willing to pay extra extra money for noice reduction. I can do whatever my company needs though, copper, pex, pvc, abs, cast iron. A good plumber can do whatever job they are given.
I understand not having an "employee" solder, I don't allow it either. They don't have the full gravity of the situation in mind, fires being the main thing. However, someone for there own business has ALL the gravity of the situation in mind, "I could loose everything if I burn down or flood this entire building, im gonna make dang sure it's done 💯 correctly" different sets of mind is why I think I can't have anyone working for me to solder. I let them use thread or compression or crimp. Thats it!
It must be your guys that did the job before me that has crusty weeping compression shutoffs and SHARKBITE 90s buried in walls and cross threaded cpvc males into copper female adapters. Teach them to solder so they can have some pride in their work! Buy them a small fire extinguisher to bring into each job. They’ll be fine.
@@eyepodoblivion1189 we use no shark bites. Compression fittings WITH proper inserts and ive trained them well on anything threaded for instance when to use tape, when you can't use tape, when you can use both. I just don't have the nerve to allow these guys to have an flame rolling in a finished or unfinished space. They can solder don't get me wrong but it's the sticky situations that I don't have enough confidence to allow for a possible catastrophic event and loss of business.
@@joshdiehl8737 yes it is, but burn down a building due to negligence and see how many insurance agents you have calling you up after your original dropped you like a bag of puke.......🦗......Insurance is for unavoidable, unforeseeable types of things. But as for myself, if at all possible I'm soldering. Just not my workers. I need to be able to sleep at night.
Being a non plumber and have solder little project, I have never seen the pro press. How would one remove a pro press fitting? Is it just cut out. At least with soldering, you can save the pieces of pipe.
I've had my RP115 for about a month now and it's great, especially for lines with water in them. You will see me on a ladder, kiddie pool underneath me to catch the water, using my RP115 to fix busted pipes at the apartments
as a homeowner who only gets involved every 10 years or so, it's amazing to see how fast the trades change, and confusing. taking a bigger step back, it's easier to see, some changes are genuine improvement, while others make a few companies wealthy. time for this homeowner to learn to sweat pipes
i like both. just need to know where to use them. always remember that you can’t take off a press joint like you can for a solder joint. so at least leave some meat for future repairs if you’re going to press or else you’ll be cutting open walls
As a plumber at a small company I always solder unless not possible I understand that pro press is faster and less dangerous if not careful but after the price of fittings especially valves do yall really think it saves money?
Time is money. The prep involved with sweating is a lot more if you are doing 10+ joints. Don't get me wrong. I love soldering. But propress is around the same price
It doesn't save any money. No plumber will charge more for a job just because they solder joints. And if they saved 30 minutes using pro press they would charge the same for the job but get a longer coffee break. What pro press does is makes the job easier and eliminate the chance of causing a fire.
A soldered joint will outlive the house and maybe civilization as we know it. I wouldn't make a claim like that about a pressed fitting, compression fitting, and certainly not a push on fitting.
I think you are overheating the fitting to much... when the solder melts i pull the heat and apply the solder then i put some heat on to draw it...if the metal is to hot the solder will bead off and not into the joint
Mr Roger, I have 42+ years in too! Started in 1979, dropped out of HS and went to work for LA Roto Rooter....2 years later I started my own Rooter business and learned plumbing on my own, along the way - the hard way, lol. I got licensed in 1984 and have been going strong ever since. I agree with you on the Solder vs Press issue.....Always solder and only press when you have to and never in any place inaccessible. I understand we gotta change with the times but I just feel solder is more professional overall.
@@richardj5417 You’re correct - but using Pro Press reminds me when motocross bikes went to 4 Strokes…. They were so easy to ride compared to 2 Strokes; it felt like cheating, lol lol. Pro Press can be awesome for some repairs though.
I don’t watch this guy all the time, but I’ve been watching some of his videos for a while now and I am not a plumber. But this guy makes some pretty wicked cool content. Does anybody else get some “This Old House” vibes?
I live and grew up in the NE. He is a bit like This Old House, the good years after Bob, but with an odd Texas accent instead of the Boston speech impediment. ;)
@@avgjoeshow4208 Yes, most of their filming was in Massachusetts and occasionally out of state. NE for New England and not Nebraska just in case I confused ya. I'm old enough to call myself Team Norm; Bob was a bit of a hack. I've literally watched the show since I was a child; there was several great, real tradesmen on the show. Norm Abram was my favorite one to watch create. He was sort of Bob's real life Al Borland!
I'm not a plumber, but, as someone that is in plumbing supply sales, I have to say, I see solder dropping off even more in the near future, and I see press fittings dropping off eventually as well. I see copper plumbing dropping off all together in the next 20-30 years if costs continue to rise and work ethics and skills continue to decline. I don't disrespect or doubt the ways of old, but I see what is on the market and I see what sells.
Ok what are those places for each ? E.g you can carry a pex line right up to the valve 0n toilet or under sink stubbing out to copper added another joint that’s arguably a bigger failure risk than press or solder
I just got a ProPress that does PP and Pex, hydraulic manual of course , 4or5 pumps and you done.,. but it's good to know soldering just in case of repairs and converting to PP or PEX....👍🏽
I am sure someone already said this in the comments but yes you do have to clean your pipe on press fittings and also rheem and deburr. They also make gauge for a mark for insertion depth. Just saying and solder will stand the test of time
Roger, how do you feel about compression fittings? I know a lot of folks that say they're trash, and they leak all the time. Personally, I prefer to solder. But I've had situations in tight areas where I didn't feel comfortable using a torch, so I popped on a compression fitting. I've never had one leak, as far as 20 years back. I'm not a plumber. I just do my own work, and help out close friends and family when they have emergencies.
Union pipefitter/welder here. Too much heat, too much solder, improper technique. For those of you watching this, warm the pipe up a little then heat up the fitting moving around it to evenly distribute the heat. If your flux gets to hot it will boil and dry up so dont apply to much heat. Point the flame towards the center of the fitting and away from your solder wire. Tap the joint with the solder. When its ready it will melt and capillary action will draw the solder into the space between the pipe and fitting. Quickly draw your flame around the the joint while following with the solder at the same time, the flame should always be pointing at the center of the joint throught the process. Rule of thumb is what ever size pipe your using is how much solder you should consume for a single joint. 3/4 pipe coupling with two joints would consume 1½" of solder. 1" pipe and below that is properly soldered will easily hold 500 psi. Swipe your joint after with flux to help clean it up.
I always get bitten changing gas/torch types, propane to map mostly, but changing to anything other than your normal daily setup always throws your timing off. for sure needed more torch moving around.
Idk i dont mind press so much sometimes its faster and easier and its a pretty decent joint. But i have also seen press joints leak right from the get go whete if i had just soldered that would not have happened. Only thing i can say where i work they dont like me to reem and deburr so i never do and this has happened only twice. Pro press was fully charged i was at full depth, could be defective joint perhaps could be that lack of deburring.
Have you used the megapress? Man they are expensive fittings but the time saved threading pipe in the field is so worth it. I did 2 meter in services almost all mega and the labor time saved was tremendous. But I bought 3 2” gas valves for a little over 900$!
I propress everything I can. But you have to be able to solder, yesterday I had a cal to replace a main water shutoff in the home. Literally there wasn’t a 1/4” between the wall and the valve. I was going to rebuild the valve but the screw holding the bottom seal was rotted away. There was not enough pipe through the wall to press anything. If you can’t solder what do you do? Pass on the job? It makes no sense. I went to the truck and grabbed a valve, sweat off the old, removed as much old solder as I could because I believe that it was lead and sweat in the new valve. Quick easy job. Took longer to clean fitting than it did to sweat it all up.
Making repairs on my parents 50yo type M copper lines with slightly acidic water, I don't even think about ProPress. It will just crush the paper thin lines. Solder all day long, or use a POC. It doesn't have to last forever. It will need a complete re-plumb soon.
I work for roto rooter. They do not teach you how to soldier but if you learn on your own and pass a test with the gms approval you can carry a torch and soldier but must inform management prior to anytime you fire up the torch
@RogerWakefield mostly yes it's all press. They do buy every plumber a milwaukee press tool to use though. There are very few instances where even the ones who know how to solder actually solder
We use press but we still use solder fittings on shower valves and up to the drop ear. We fell like soldering them is much better than using male adapters especially in the wall. When we use pex we stub out with copper and we use the brackets and we solder the copper stub outs to the bracket.
I solder very little nowadays. In fact I just had a leaky solder joint and found out it was because my flux went bad. Copper isn’t very good in coastal Florida so for me it’s ProPress straight to ProPex. I did 👀 that Type L copper, that helps with longevity. On a side note Roger, can we talk about lead wiping 😂
@@jinsu0504 I’m not sure about lasting longer but I’ve been a plumber for 26 years and haven’t seen one press fitting leaking for a service call but have seen dozens and dozens of solder joint leaks. I think pressing is far more reliable because it’s a simpler connection. Yesterday I had to replace a leaking solder joint that was 20 years old, the fitting popped off by just pulling on it. When I looked inside there was barely any solder. I know the o ring made full contact around the pipe after I pressed it. We’ll see if I get a call back in 20 years
@@chicomarlin1246 i do have another question for you. My plumber propressed my main water line to greate a T joint to connect a double check valve. So main line, crimp, t joint, crimp, elbow, crimp, linear pipe, crimp, check valve, crimp, linear line, crimp, elbow, crimp, linear line....and it goes out the house to ghe sprinkers...is this okay? Im just worried about the main line and sprinkler being high pressure and all...worried it might leak later
We spent the 5k on a Milwaukee pro press and mega press system for copper and black iron. I used it a few times and still do for tying into existing systems but overall I feel like the overpriced fittings really deter me from wanting to use it more often. Not to mention that I just don’t trust a nylon o ring to seal for nearly as long as a thread or soldered joint. When we are fabing up a new boiler room I need to be able to make changes and save space neither are possible with the copper press. I see other plumbers boiler rooms that are fitting to fitting across a whole wall. The homeowner will be severely disappointed when it come time to replace a valve or a fitting and find out the whole wall needs to be repiped just to change one fitting. I feel like the press is part of the dumbing down of the trade. Not “impressed” in Alaska
That is my concern, as well. Are utilities devolving into something that is only expected to last ten years? Press fittings are cool and convenient, but I wonder how they will hold up over decades. They make money now but might cost a fortune (to re-do everything or repair damage) in the future.
@@RogerWakefield i spoke too soon later in video you did talk about that!! sorry.. just getting ideas .. have to run a 2inch water line from well pump house to main house and garage and several spots for "fire water".. was thinking of mixed line copper under house and Schedule 80 2 in. in ground from pump house...gluing i am ok but soldering not sure to i like the idea of the "Quickfitting" on copper from 2 " on sections down to 3/4" you do great and thorough videos keep it up!!
Where i work everytime we solder we have to get a hot permit and go on fire watch for two hours after the repair. We only use pro press unless we are doing refrigerant lines.
How would a pro press elbow be changed if it leaked? With a soldered elbow it can be removed by heating it, I don't think a pro press elbow can be removed.
Not aloud to use solder in AU every thing must be silver soldered or press fitted . The problem with press fittings is getting the jaws around the fittings in the first place so it's brazing all the way unless it's outside
At my school my teacher is teaching us soldering and he told me to use the heat on the top and solder from the bottom so dose it matter which way you do it
Often when doing repairs, you're attaching to type M, which has a much thinner side wall than type L. If I'm rebuilding from type M my first connection is always sweat, I've had too many times pressing to type m and not getting a good seal
It took over 8 minutes toprep and make that solder joint...90 seconds of rthe Propress...pretty simple math. Yes PP is more expensive but it's much faster, normally looks alot better and no Hot Work permits needed when working in Industrial settings. We have done jobs with PP having over 10,000 connections 1/2 to 4" in copper and stainless, no leaks. You have to remember to calibrate your tools prior to starting each day.
When the flame turns green that means you are overheating the joint. Also I like to hit the pipe also and go back and forth to joint. But you can tell your solder was clearly not hitting the joint. You around be able to hit joint and watch solder go.around oint
I'm not a professional plumber but I know if I need to replace a valve that was soldered I can heat and desolder to remove the old valve. Sometimes it may only be an inch from the wall. Can you remove a pressed fitting or does it have to be cut off at the end?
My rule of thumb is if it's new construction I will solder or if it's in a garage etc. Also a shower valve I'll solder outside by the truck. If it's in a home and is a repair I'll pro press. People dont like the smell of solder smoke alarms and for fire practice.
We ream pipe so we don't cause turbulence in the water, that's what I was taught. With press fittings we are intentionally deforming the pipe . What do you think the long term effects of this will be on our piping systems?
Thinking of the deformation as the axis of the pipe, I'd imagine a copper lip being more crucial to ream due to, what you said, causing turbulence. It runs laterally to the pipe, causing waves of different pressures that would cause wear on their impact location....makes sense. But when it comes to pro-press, i'd imagine that since the deformation runs with the longitudinal axis of the pipe (or congruent with it), that it wouldn't cause anymore pressure/turbulence. That the deformation itself would just have a slipstream effect, causing less wear on the pipe than what a lip would cause, had it not been reamed. If the deformation point itself was then considered to be a point of failure, then I'd say it's futile to even think about, considering all the twists and bends in the water line anyways. An elbow would have a more likelihood of failing before the point-of-deformation on a pro-pressed line or fitting. I think the biggest failure of pro-press, in the future, will be the rubber gaskets. Especially when used on hot water lines or outside. Think they'll outlast soldered fittings but if they were to fail, they would fail in mass. 20-50 years from now, when a rubber gasket goes, you're likely to have to replace all the pro-pressed fittings in that same area because you could assume that they, as well, could go at any moment too. This has been on my mind for a while. Thanks for letting me share.
You used to much heat on the fitting the heat can actually push out the solder if you get it to Hot just back off the torch a little bit and it would look beautiful 👍
Not me. I'd rather have a clean bead. Wiping means the plumber touched the pipe while it was still hot. That's a great way to crack some of the joint. It might not crack it enough to leak right away, but it would be weakened if it breaks any of it. It's a major mistake in my mind.
Solder is always my first choice but the pro press definitely has its place especially in hospitals (above ceilings) where there are alot of wires and cables and no hot work permits...and cleaner.
Press Fitting used in Eastern Europe since 1970, now press the acceptable fitting approved in Eastern Europe since 1990, UK and US only soldering as I know, also I attend a loads of pin hole leak cause by flux not flushed etc.. Press joint not.. I know job which me and dad installed in 2000, recently visited the site still no leak.. Some country going backwards some forward.. Also Press has now angle jaws etc which fit everywhere. Good video by the way.. 😅✌️
It may leak for minimal reasons. 1-being if it is press at an angle and not pressed right. Then if pressed properly it is usually works. 2-being if the pipe is not pushed into the hub of the fitting all the way as it should be. You can get away with a little bit that can bite you.
I’m still surprised the pro press tool hasn’t come down in price. Also surprised and thankful my local lowes sells press fittings for the late evening jobs and the supply house is closed. But I guess the average diy person will just do pex and shark bite fittings.
As long as sales remain strong at the current price, there is no incentive for the manufacturer to decrease the price of the tool. Those tools are very valuable to some of us, increasing our production/earnings substantially. The manufacturers know we will pay their price.
I’m amazed this hasn’t been brought up in the comments yet. Solder has a 40-50 year life (the modern subpar lead free kind). Pro-press has a 20-25 year life per the manufacturer. Reason to propress: labor cost, increased pipe rigidity (for exposed commercial applications) but solder is superior without question. Propress relies on a rubber O-ring to maintain a seal. Rubber fails far faster than solder.
I’m an AC tech and I soldier with 9% nickel and it doesn’t require flux prep work. However I do trickle nitrogen through the line to displace the air from the pipe. Carbon will build up inside the pipe with the air. But the way this soldier in this video flows is way to soft for me. It was falling off like water
heat the pipe all around, not just the bottom, 'til a green flame, then remove flame and apply solder. no need to overcook the solder with flame as shown. this took way more time than it should
Yes the press is faster but it’s an investment up front (a well worth it on I believe) with that said how can you be a plumber and not know how to sweat pipes. Copper is never going away and you’ll have to know how to do it if you really want to have any long term value
Pro-Press is awesome, but always remember to note the pro-s versus the cons. With pro-press there is a rubber washer that will eventually fail while a soldered joint will likely outlast the building. I get it why professional trades are moving to using Pro-press, but I do feel that a professional charging a professional price should not take shortcuts. I wish there was a press fitting without the rubber gasket. Hmm, I guess then that would be called Pex pipe. Speaking of Pex, even though I love copper, I do really like using Pex and I trust that Pex will last.
The rubber washer is not the primary sealant in the system - it is a failover. It is the copper crushed against itself. This technology is older than most plumbers, but we understand old plumbers can't learn new tricks.
@@richardcollyer1014I agree that removing the rubber seal, and water may not leak, but for how long? I've also seen videos of plumbers stating that when they tried removing the o ring, initially there was no leaks, but later on, there was a leak.
My Plumbing Instructor who's been plumbing for 30 years said that Press on fittings are much better than soldering, but you may still have to braze certain underground joints.
Pro press has a black rubber o ring. It got popular because California freaks out about the negligible amount of lead in solder. Ask your instructor why is it better than a properly soldered joint? "Better" is a subjective term. Better how? Pro press is better for a repair on say 2" copper that runs horizontal through an emergency room because it's fast,and you can have a bit of water still in the pipe,whereas soldering you can't. Soldering is better because it lasts longer than a propress joint. Pro press is good for service. It has it's place. Also, remember this: Always always always heat the pipe first,then the fitting. Thermal expansion occurs inside the fitting when you heat the pipe first,so when you heat the fitting, it's already heated from the inside out. I've been soldering/brazing copper for 20 plus years and this is the way to tell who can solder properly or not. Guys that heat the fitting first are doing it wrong. I went to the copper institute in Michigan and everything I learned before going there was 100% the same. Taking soldering away from plumbers is taking the art and skill away from our job. Tell your instructor that.
We can technically solder but if we solder in place we have to charge the customer several hours as we have to stay on site to verify no fires per corporate.
Not being allowed to solder is absolutely insane. We dont get stocked with solder fittings, but of course youre allowed to carry the tools and stock yourself with fittings on a PO as needed
Someone’s been doing too many UA-cam videos and not enough soldering. I kid. Pro press is invaluable but I don’t know how plumbers can get by without soldering. We still use lead stubs on toilets so you have to solder there but there’s other options. The one place you can’t escape it is commercial plumbing. You cannot install a flushometer without soldering the marvel adapter. Also when you run cast iron drains you have to use copper trap arms. If your drain is perfectly lined up you can get away with using a nipple but any 45 outside the wall or if you have to arm over in the wall you have to use copper and as far as I’m aware DWV copper fittings are solder only. There’s also lots of situations where soldering is better. Some places you can’t fit a pro press but you could fit a torch. Soldering also gives you options. The supply house was out of bell reducers of a certain size that I needed in pro press so I just got a sweat one. There’s also situations where soldering is much faster. Recently I installed a water heater up high on a wall. Between the expansion tank, vacuum breaker, valve and all the fittings to tie in a recirc pump and connect to the water heater there were a bunch of fittings and the space was tight. Having to be up on a ladder and wait for the press to finish then remove and try to find the best way to press the next one took forever. I wished I had had the sweat fittings to do it. Even with having to clean/flux each fitting it would have been faster because I could start on one end and just work my way down. With how conductive copper is once you solder the first fitting, the heat travels so well, you can do the rest really fast. There’s just so many ways that soldering can be better that’s it seems stupid to eliminate it completely. As for soldering vs press systems as a whole, I wonder how well press will hold up 20-30 yrs from now. I see soldered fittings that are 70+ yrs old all the time. Will press fittings last that long or will they heat a certain point where they just start failing. I guess we don’t know yet. Solder is also better in freeze situations. I learned this during the big Texas freeze two years ago. Solder fittings stay together so your pipe might expand or even split but pro press is much worse. We had a 40’ long 1” line going to an RPZ for watering planters on a 10th floor balcony in downtown Austin. The electricians didn’t turn on the breaker for the heat wire around it so it froze. I think there were 3 couplings in it and every single one pulled completely apart. Because the fittings hold together with crimped copper and copper is soft it effectively uncrimped it. Both systems will end up with a leak but the difference is a small split in the pipe versus a full port pipe opening letting out water. Something to think about
I can’t afford the power press tool. The hand press tools are in the low $100’s and I’m struggling with all this. This also includes shark-bite. I know how to solder but not what you call an expert so this discussion is frustrating. I’d rather the conversation discuss the long term reliability and how best to handle different tools.
Dang Roger, you burnt up that fitting. It also helps to move the torch around the fitting so youre not concentrating all that heat in one spot.
Was he doing that as a joke or? 🤔 because damn that thing is cooked.
Half-brazed
Well at least he has good heat penetration hahaha!He probably does med gas! It takes adjustment even very experienced guys can do this lmao! It happens. It takes me half the day to get back into the "solder zone "after oxy/acetylene brazing too much.
B tank is so overkill for soft solder on small pipe
I'm surprised that solder took at all. That was way too much heat!
You absolutely cooked that joint lol.
🔥🔥😆
Simple propane is underrated.
Even MAPP is overkill IMO for most basic soldering jobs.
Right? Burnt the Flux right out of it. Rog, why don't you invite me on to your show? I'll show u how it's done
My thought too. I feel like a turbo torch with acetylene shouldn't go with solder. Well, maybe for soldering a large flange on a water line. I've seen too many copper fittings expand to the point that the joint wouldn't hold the solder in. It's just too much heat.
Back that torch way off once the joint is hot enough to melt the solder.
You’ve burnt a lot of that Flux and that’s a recall just waiting to happen.
As far as soldering vs ProPress it’s hard to choose one over the other. I use both based on the circumstance.
Recognized situations are what separates plumbers from salesman
In Australia soft solder has been banned,and silver brazing is used(welding rods with higher melting point) which are premium joint garanteed for life....i also use both mainly to save money on press brass fittings,so i prefab some of my brass connectors such as male/female ion which are prefab brazed,so its cheaper and more of a premium job...
Same here. If I’m doing work inside a wall or any other area like that I’ll use press fittings. On water heaters and open areas I’ll solder the fittings
I left the trade due to health issues but I've only soldered copper from 1/2 to 2 inch. Mostly pool plumbing. I enjoyed some days you were soldering and some days you were gluing PVC. The variety was always welcomed
The last company i worked for before retiring would only use the pro press on 1 1/2 and larger pipe. I started plumbing in 1970, and i still remember my first solder joint.
I've been plumbing for almost 30 years now I will never ever ever in a million years give up Soldering it is tried and true
@@johnchonka2052 yeah well there's this thing called technology where they bring out new things that make the job easier and faster while keeping the same reliability.
@@dylancampbell8064 Yea and liberals think technology and robots will replace plumbers one day also. Soldering is proven so don't try to fix it. Go live in California where you can make a technology to clean up poop the the street
@@johnchonka2052 Solder and press both have a lot of advantages and disadvantages, I use both according to situation. I won't go near a job without both tool sets.
For me, anything inside the wall or attic I prefer solder. Anything that’s accessible outside the wall like a water heater, softener, etc. pro press is awesome!
I had a boss that would inspect all my apprentice solder joints just to make sure he couldn't hang his hat on it. Taught me real quick how to make clean and proper joints. Left the trade way before press fit cam about but still love to learn the trade.
solder joints are either good or bad. if it's a good joint, the pipe will fail before the joint. if it's a bad joint, it leaks from the get-go. there's advantages to that.
From the get-go is relative but generally yes. There are numerous accounts of prepped solder joints that someone forgot to torch holding under pressure for days, weeks or even longer before blowing loose.
I'd love for you to cut your pipe to see if you had excess solder inside causing turbulence in the line which causes pinhole leaks. I work in a place that uses both and the pinholes are vastly more common by solder joints.
Theres times the press tool wont fit in a spot you're working in and you have to solder, not being allowed to solder is ridiculous. Also thought we were brazing that joint for a second haha
Reminds me of the first time I used an air-acetylene torch to solder. I cooked that fitting so bad I had to get another one. I quickly learned you mostly just have to show the pipe you have an acetylene torch and that gets it hot enough.
Ive had to solder half inch copper that was pressed right up against wood with virtually no play or space without chiseling out the wood or shoving a flat screwdriver behind the pipe temporarily to be able to solder on a joint. Soldering isn't ever going to be 100% gone. Not as long as there is copper being used anywhere in the building
Holy cow! Is this his first time soldering? He really torched the living daylights out of that coupler. I only have an okay amount of experience with soldering copper and even I know better. Roger, if your goal is to make a case for still using solder, make sure you do it perfectly on camera next time. Otherwise great video! Keep up the good work Roger!
Old-school here getting ready to plumb my house. I'll stick with the solder. Thanks for the video.
I prefer solder too, good luck 💪🏻👍🏼
I've been plumbing for 5 years now. We do very little soldering, typically it's just for shower valves or adapting for pex.
I am a new apprentice. I have done both and have to agree press is the future. I recently changed 30 feet cold and hot water of copper pipes in less than 30 min. If we're to solder it would have taken me no less than four hours.
4 hours? Someone experienced with solder wouldn't take that long. I have to say, pro press is actually probably bad for plumbers overall. Anyone can do a pro press fitting. Way more homeowners will do their own plumbing with PEX and pro press. Way less so with soldering.
@@joshdiehl8737 a torch to solder is way cheaper than the propress tool, which goes for about two grand.
@@joshdiehl8737 dude did say he was new
@@joshdiehl8737 I'm experienced and 30 ft of pipe can take longer than 4 hours if we are drilling through walls or tiles. Also finding different routes to bring new water lines takes time. If 30 ft of straight pipe then I can do that in less than a hour
@@antimarxist5693 Comrade Politburist Sanders and The Party want to know your location.
Swipe the freshly soldered joint with the flux covered brush. It’ll keep it clean, smooth it out, and brighten it up
👀
I think there is a time and place for both sweating fittings and pressing fittings
Put that solder joint in an urn cause that was absolutely COOKED
⚱ would anyone like to say a few words? ⚱
That was way too hot. I'm surprised that solder took at all, must be some good flux.
I was going to say that, the fitting was cooked and the flux vaporized. But I figure he did it on purpose for the demonstration to show a rookie mistake.
Propress is great tool but I find the tool fails quiet often and always needs repairs. I also find it hard to keep things straight and clean looking. That being said the propress is amazing on jobs where you have that constant drip that makes soldering impossible as well as being able to make repairs a lot quicker.
I've had pro press fittings leaking after two years on a new install. Not mine I only solder. Too prove to the customer that solder is king I soldered the pro press fittings and all is good.
Do a video on that!
Soldering a press fitting, interesting!
Solder is very much used in the commercial Industry. I’m 23 and I’ve soldered probably 80% of the water line joints that I’ve ever made. If I’m running DWV it’s either pvc or cast iron. Usually pvc, unless im running a big job that is willing to pay extra extra money for noice reduction. I can do whatever my company needs though, copper, pex, pvc, abs, cast iron. A good plumber can do whatever job they are given.
I understand not having an "employee" solder, I don't allow it either. They don't have the full gravity of the situation in mind, fires being the main thing. However, someone for there own business has ALL the gravity of the situation in mind, "I could loose everything if I burn down or flood this entire building, im gonna make dang sure it's done 💯 correctly" different sets of mind is why I think I can't have anyone working for me to solder. I let them use thread or compression or crimp. Thats it!
It must be your guys that did the job before me that has crusty weeping compression shutoffs and SHARKBITE 90s buried in walls and cross threaded cpvc males into copper female adapters.
Teach them to solder so they can have some pride in their work! Buy them a small fire extinguisher to bring into each job. They’ll be fine.
@@eyepodoblivion1189 we use no shark bites. Compression fittings WITH proper inserts and ive trained them well on anything threaded for instance when to use tape, when you can't use tape, when you can use both. I just don't have the nerve to allow these guys to have an flame rolling in a finished or unfinished space. They can solder don't get me wrong but it's the sticky situations that I don't have enough confidence to allow for a possible catastrophic event and loss of business.
@@beerbeforebreakfast isn't that what business insurance is for though?
@@joshdiehl8737 yes it is, but burn down a building due to negligence and see how many insurance agents you have calling you up after your original dropped you like a bag of puke.......🦗......Insurance is for unavoidable, unforeseeable types of things. But as for myself, if at all possible I'm soldering. Just not my workers. I need to be able to sleep at night.
Being a non plumber and have solder little project, I have never seen the pro press. How would one remove a pro press fitting? Is it just cut out. At least with soldering, you can save the pieces of pipe.
I've had my RP115 for about a month now and it's great, especially for lines with water in them. You will see me on a ladder, kiddie pool underneath me to catch the water, using my RP115 to fix busted pipes at the apartments
as a homeowner who only gets involved every 10 years or so, it's amazing to see how fast the trades change, and confusing. taking a bigger step back, it's easier to see, some changes are genuine improvement, while others make a few companies wealthy. time for this homeowner to learn to sweat pipes
i like both. just need to know where to use them. always remember that you can’t take off a press joint like you can for a solder joint. so at least leave some meat for future repairs if you’re going to press or else you’ll be cutting open walls
As a plumber at a small company I always solder unless not possible I understand that pro press is faster and less dangerous if not careful but after the price of fittings especially valves do yall really think it saves money?
Time is money. The prep involved with sweating is a lot more if you are doing 10+ joints.
Don't get me wrong. I love soldering. But propress is around the same price
@@JamesFoxPodcast As a busy self-employed plumber, it would cost me a fortune in lost jobs / customers to stick with soldering for everything.
It doesn't save any money. No plumber will charge more for a job just because they solder joints. And if they saved 30 minutes using pro press they would charge the same for the job but get a longer coffee break. What pro press does is makes the job easier and eliminate the chance of causing a fire.
A soldered joint will outlive the house and maybe civilization as we know it. I wouldn't make a claim like that about a pressed fitting, compression fitting, and certainly not a push on fitting.
Very true!
with the type M copper that we use down here youre lucky if the pipes themselves last over 30 years 😂 type L needs to be code eveywhere
I think you are overheating the fitting to much... when the solder melts i pull the heat and apply the solder then i put some heat on to draw it...if the metal is to hot the solder will bead off and not into the joint
I think learning how to Sweat a joint is a must for all plumbers for At least the ability to unsweat clean it and transition
Mr Roger, I have 42+ years in too! Started in 1979, dropped out of HS and went to work for LA Roto Rooter....2 years later I started my own Rooter business and learned plumbing on my own, along the way - the hard way, lol. I got licensed in 1984 and have been going strong ever since. I agree with you on the Solder vs Press issue.....Always solder and only press when you have to and never in any place inaccessible. I understand we gotta change with the times but I just feel solder is more professional overall.
I don’t trust propress. What happens when the internal O-ring goes?!
@@zachbenedicic7582 that's your choice man. But theres a lot more to it.
@@richardj5417 You’re correct - but using Pro Press reminds me when motocross bikes went to 4 Strokes…. They were so easy to ride compared to 2 Strokes; it felt like cheating, lol lol. Pro Press can be awesome for some repairs though.
At 4:00 "I know the solder will be drawn to where the heat was." Well that was the case before it was overheated
I don’t watch this guy all the time, but I’ve been watching some of his videos for a while now and I am not a plumber. But this guy makes some pretty wicked cool content. Does anybody else get some “This Old House” vibes?
I live and grew up in the NE. He is a bit like This Old House, the good years after Bob, but with an odd Texas accent instead of the Boston speech impediment. ;)
@@chrisford8403 is that where the thisnold house was? In NE? I never knew that.
@@avgjoeshow4208 Yes, most of their filming was in Massachusetts and occasionally out of state. NE for New England and not Nebraska just in case I confused ya. I'm old enough to call myself Team Norm; Bob was a bit of a hack. I've literally watched the show since I was a child; there was several great, real tradesmen on the show. Norm Abram was my favorite one to watch create. He was sort of Bob's real life Al Borland!
I'm not a plumber, but, as someone that is in plumbing supply sales, I have to say, I see solder dropping off even more in the near future, and I see press fittings dropping off eventually as well. I see copper plumbing dropping off all together in the next 20-30 years if costs continue to rise and work ethics and skills continue to decline. I don't disrespect or doubt the ways of old, but I see what is on the market and I see what sells.
Can’t stop what’s comin….
You sound like my Ferguson rep. Is that you Chris? 😂
@@chicomarlin1246 😂😂😂
So what will be commonly used in the future? Over here in Europe, copper, brass and press tools will probably be used for a long time to come.
@@ebuyumak4657 Plastics
Love turbo torch, can't hear the customer telling you what to do🥰
Right?!😂
I solder, press and use type "A" pex. Each one has its place. No matter what happens I will always continue to include soldering on my jobs.
Ok what are those places for each ? E.g you can carry a pex line right up to the valve 0n toilet or under sink stubbing out to copper added another joint that’s arguably a bigger failure risk than press or solder
I just got a ProPress that does PP and Pex, hydraulic manual of course , 4or5 pumps and you done.,. but it's good to know soldering just in case of repairs and converting to PP or PEX....👍🏽
I am sure someone already said this in the comments but yes you do have to clean your pipe on press fittings and also rheem and deburr. They also make gauge for a mark for insertion depth. Just saying and solder will stand the test of time
Roger, how do you feel about compression fittings? I know a lot of folks that say they're trash, and they leak all the time. Personally, I prefer to solder. But I've had situations in tight areas where I didn't feel comfortable using a torch, so I popped on a compression fitting. I've never had one leak, as far as 20 years back.
I'm not a plumber. I just do my own work, and help out close friends and family when they have emergencies.
I don't prefer compression fittings, Solder will always last longer than any other fitting
Thanks!
I use compression for accessable stops at the fixture.
@@jessemclaughlin9680 sure. Easy access in case of a leak. Just about every toilet I've ever seen has a valve connected via compression fitting.
@@abejavadi235 yeah those 3/8 quarter turn ball valves over 1/2 copper with a brass ring is all I see
I prefer to solder press fittings. Thank you very much.
Union pipefitter/welder here. Too much heat, too much solder, improper technique. For those of you watching this, warm the pipe up a little then heat up the fitting moving around it to evenly distribute the heat. If your flux gets to hot it will boil and dry up so dont apply to much heat. Point the flame towards the center of the fitting and away from your solder wire. Tap the joint with the solder. When its ready it will melt and capillary action will draw the solder into the space between the pipe and fitting. Quickly draw your flame around the the joint while following with the solder at the same time, the flame should always be pointing at the center of the joint throught the process. Rule of thumb is what ever size pipe your using is how much solder you should consume for a single joint. 3/4 pipe coupling with two joints would consume 1½" of solder. 1" pipe and below that is properly soldered will easily hold 500 psi. Swipe your joint after with flux to help clean it up.
I always get bitten changing gas/torch types, propane to map mostly, but changing to anything other than your normal daily setup always throws your timing off.
for sure needed more torch moving around.
Excellent teaching
Idk i dont mind press so much sometimes its faster and easier and its a pretty decent joint. But i have also seen press joints leak right from the get go whete if i had just soldered that would not have happened. Only thing i can say where i work they dont like me to reem and deburr so i never do and this has happened only twice. Pro press was fully charged i was at full depth, could be defective joint perhaps could be that lack of deburring.
Have you used the megapress? Man they are expensive fittings but the time saved threading pipe in the field is so worth it. I did 2 meter in services almost all mega and the labor time saved was tremendous. But I bought 3 2” gas valves for a little over 900$!
I propress everything I can. But you have to be able to solder, yesterday I had a cal to replace a main water shutoff in the home. Literally there wasn’t a 1/4” between the wall and the valve. I was going to rebuild the valve but the screw holding the bottom seal was rotted away. There was not enough pipe through the wall to press anything. If you can’t solder what do you do? Pass on the job? It makes no sense. I went to the truck and grabbed a valve, sweat off the old, removed as much old solder as I could because I believe that it was lead and sweat in the new valve. Quick easy job. Took longer to clean fitting than it did to sweat it all up.
I'm no "solder pro," but have done it a bunch o' times; Was that a good soldering job... to post for a comparison video?
I think you got the pipe waaay to hot😬
Making repairs on my parents 50yo type M copper lines with slightly acidic water, I don't even think about ProPress. It will just crush the paper thin lines. Solder all day long, or use a POC. It doesn't have to last forever. It will need a complete re-plumb soon.
I work for roto rooter. They do not teach you how to soldier but if you learn on your own and pass a test with the gms approval you can carry a torch and soldier but must inform management prior to anytime you fire up the torch
You have to call a manager and let them know you're going to solder before you can even fire up a torch? 🙄😒What part of the country are you in?
@@RogerWakefield columbus, ohio
That is crazy. How often are y'all soldering then? Are you pressing instead?
@RogerWakefield mostly yes it's all press. They do buy every plumber a milwaukee press tool to use though. There are very few instances where even the ones who know how to solder actually solder
Great video
We use press but we still use solder fittings on shower valves and up to the drop ear. We fell like soldering them is much better than using male adapters especially in the wall. When we use pex we stub out with copper and we use the brackets and we solder the copper stub outs to the bracket.
I solder very little nowadays. In fact I just had a leaky solder joint and found out it was because my flux went bad. Copper isn’t very good in coastal Florida so for me it’s ProPress straight to ProPex. I did 👀 that Type L copper, that helps with longevity. On a side note Roger, can we talk about lead wiping 😂
hi, does crimping last longer and is it MORE reliable than the ol traditional soldering
@@jinsu0504 I’m not sure about lasting longer but I’ve been a plumber for 26 years and haven’t seen one press fitting leaking for a service call but have seen dozens and dozens of solder joint leaks. I think pressing is far more reliable because it’s a simpler connection. Yesterday I had to replace a leaking solder joint that was 20 years old, the fitting popped off by just pulling on it. When I looked inside there was barely any solder. I know the o ring made full contact around the pipe after I pressed it. We’ll see if I get a call back in 20 years
@@chicomarlin1246 i do have another question for you. My plumber propressed my main water line to greate a T joint to connect a double check valve. So main line, crimp, t joint, crimp, elbow, crimp, linear pipe, crimp, check valve, crimp, linear line, crimp, elbow, crimp, linear line....and it goes out the house to ghe sprinkers...is this okay? Im just worried about the main line and sprinkler being high pressure and all...worried it might leak later
@@jinsu0504 I wouldn’t worry at all and trust your plumbers advice, assuming he is licensed
@@chicomarlin1246 hes licensed but plumbers are business men after all. more plumbing issues means COLD HARD cash
We spent the 5k on a Milwaukee pro press and mega press system for copper and black iron. I used it a few times and still do for tying into existing systems but overall I feel like the overpriced fittings really deter me from wanting to use it more often. Not to mention that I just don’t trust a nylon o ring to seal for nearly as long as a thread or soldered joint. When we are fabing up a new boiler room I need to be able to make changes and save space neither are possible with the copper press. I see other plumbers boiler rooms that are fitting to fitting across a whole wall. The homeowner will be severely disappointed when it come time to replace a valve or a fitting and find out the whole wall needs to be repiped just to change one fitting. I feel like the press is part of the dumbing down of the trade.
Not “impressed” in Alaska
That is my concern, as well. Are utilities devolving into something that is only expected to last ten years? Press fittings are cool and convenient, but I wonder how they will hold up over decades. They make money now but might cost a fortune (to re-do everything or repair damage) in the future.
what about Propress fitting where it is crimped with Rigid tool or Milwaukee Tool ?? could you do a video on that.. please thanks!!
I use the Rigid press tool in this video
@@RogerWakefield i spoke too soon later in video you did talk about that!! sorry.. just getting ideas .. have to run a 2inch water line from well pump house to main house and garage and several spots for "fire water".. was thinking of mixed line copper under house and Schedule 80 2 in. in ground from pump house...gluing i am ok but soldering not sure to i like the idea of the "Quickfitting" on copper from 2 " on sections down to 3/4"
you do great and thorough videos keep it up!!
Where i work everytime we solder we have to get a hot permit and go on fire watch for two hours after the repair. We only use pro press unless we are doing refrigerant lines.
How would a pro press elbow be changed if it leaked? With a soldered elbow it can be removed by heating it, I don't think a pro press elbow can be removed.
Thanks
I think pro-press and push to fit might be for the health of the plumber - not having to inhale that burning flux.
Us master toilet mechanics are some tough guys, we ain't no San Francisco sissy boys. We stir our coffee with the toilet auger. [Love my pro press]
Not aloud to use solder in AU every thing must be silver soldered or press fitted .
The problem with press fittings is getting the jaws around the fittings in the first place so it's brazing all the way unless it's outside
please what the name of your prazing torsh
I have a bunch of pro press fitting can i solder them.instewd of crimping
Not with that o-ring inside...use it the way it was intended
At my school my teacher is teaching us soldering and he told me to use the heat on the top and solder from the bottom so dose it matter which way you do it
Often when doing repairs, you're attaching to type M, which has a much thinner side wall than type L. If I'm rebuilding from type M my first connection is always sweat, I've had too many times pressing to type m and not getting a good seal
Above ground, type K is for underground plumbing.
Simple type m ornamental, type L
I don't think press should replace soldering, but it's a good addition to a plumbing truck.
It took over 8 minutes toprep and make that solder joint...90 seconds of rthe Propress...pretty simple math. Yes PP is more expensive but it's much faster, normally looks alot better and no Hot Work permits needed when working in Industrial settings. We have done jobs with PP having over 10,000 connections 1/2 to 4" in copper and stainless, no leaks. You have to remember to calibrate your tools prior to starting each day.
Depends, is the water shutoff working, if yes, do you know how to solder?
When the flame turns green that means you are overheating the joint. Also I like to hit the pipe also and go back and forth to joint. But you can tell your solder was clearly not hitting the joint. You around be able to hit joint and watch solder go.around oint
I'm not a professional plumber but I know if I need to replace a valve that was soldered I can heat and desolder to remove the old valve. Sometimes it may only be an inch from the wall. Can you remove a pressed fitting or does it have to be cut off at the end?
Good point.
My rule of thumb is if it's new construction I will solder or if it's in a garage etc. Also a shower valve I'll solder outside by the truck. If it's in a home and is a repair I'll pro press. People dont like the smell of solder smoke alarms and for fire practice.
YOU GOT THE PIPE & FITTING WAY WAY TOO 🔥 HOT !!!!!!!!
We ream pipe so we don't cause turbulence in the water, that's what I was taught. With press fittings we are intentionally deforming the pipe . What do you think the long term effects of this will be on our piping systems?
Thinking of the deformation as the axis of the pipe, I'd imagine a copper lip being more crucial to ream due to, what you said, causing turbulence. It runs laterally to the pipe, causing waves of different pressures that would cause wear on their impact location....makes sense. But when it comes to pro-press, i'd imagine that since the deformation runs with the longitudinal axis of the pipe (or congruent with it), that it wouldn't cause anymore pressure/turbulence. That the deformation itself would just have a slipstream effect, causing less wear on the pipe than what a lip would cause, had it not been reamed. If the deformation point itself was then considered to be a point of failure, then I'd say it's futile to even think about, considering all the twists and bends in the water line anyways. An elbow would have a more likelihood of failing before the point-of-deformation on a pro-pressed line or fitting. I think the biggest failure of pro-press, in the future, will be the rubber gaskets. Especially when used on hot water lines or outside. Think they'll outlast soldered fittings but if they were to fail, they would fail in mass. 20-50 years from now, when a rubber gasket goes, you're likely to have to replace all the pro-pressed fittings in that same area because you could assume that they, as well, could go at any moment too. This has been on my mind for a while. Thanks for letting me share.
I love soldering I prefer it over propress
You used to much heat on the fitting the heat can actually push out the solder if you get it to Hot just back off the torch a little bit and it would look beautiful 👍
As a journeyman I believe you should be able to solder at the least. It’s a basic trade skill and when done well looks better than press fittings.
I always liked a job that wiped the solder joint with a rag. It looks much better that way.
Not me. I'd rather have a clean bead. Wiping means the plumber touched the pipe while it was still hot. That's a great way to crack some of the joint. It might not crack it enough to leak right away, but it would be weakened if it breaks any of it. It's a major mistake in my mind.
Solder is always my first choice but the pro press definitely has its place especially in hospitals (above ceilings) where there are alot of wires and cables and no hot work permits...and cleaner.
Press Fitting used in Eastern Europe since 1970, now press the acceptable fitting approved in Eastern Europe since 1990, UK and US only soldering as I know, also I attend a loads of pin hole leak cause by flux not flushed etc.. Press joint not.. I know job which me and dad installed in 2000, recently visited the site still no leak.. Some country going backwards some forward.. Also Press has now angle jaws etc which fit everywhere. Good video by the way.. 😅✌️
Great video
Thanks!
So in press fitting there is a rubber gasket in there ? If press leaks can you press it a 2,nd time ?
It may leak for minimal reasons.
1-being if it is press at an angle and not pressed right. Then if pressed properly it is usually works.
2-being if the pipe is not pushed into the hub of the fitting all the way as it should be. You can get away with a little bit that can bite you.
Gluing your new brushes at the base to prevent accidentally getting pieces of the brush in the joint is a good idea
both menthol is good at the end is dependent the circumstances, location of the jobsite.
I’m still surprised the pro press tool hasn’t come down in price. Also surprised and thankful my local lowes sells press fittings for the late evening jobs and the supply house is closed. But I guess the average diy person will just do pex and shark bite fittings.
Menards had press fittings
As long as sales remain strong at the current price, there is no incentive for the manufacturer to decrease the price of the tool. Those tools are very valuable to some of us, increasing our production/earnings substantially. The manufacturers know we will pay their price.
I'll give up my B tank and torch when they pry it from my cold dead fingers!
Propress is cool but the joins like to slip in my experience, and solder will last longer, and it's way more fun.
I agree!
Can you press fit on a PVC pipe?
I’m amazed this hasn’t been brought up in the comments yet. Solder has a 40-50 year life (the modern subpar lead free kind). Pro-press has a 20-25 year life per the manufacturer. Reason to propress: labor cost, increased pipe rigidity (for exposed commercial applications) but solder is superior without question. Propress relies on a rubber O-ring to maintain a seal. Rubber fails far faster than solder.
O ring is back up to the pressed metal. Read the manufacturers info and learn something instead of just repeating something you saw someone else say
I’m an AC tech and I soldier with 9% nickel and it doesn’t require flux prep work. However I do trickle nitrogen through the line to displace the air from the pipe. Carbon will build up inside the pipe with the air. But the way this soldier in this video flows is way to soft for me. It was falling off like water
heat the pipe all around, not just the bottom, 'til a green flame, then remove flame and apply solder. no need to overcook the solder with flame as shown. this took way more time than it should
Yes the press is faster but it’s an investment up front (a well worth it on I believe) with that said how can you be a plumber and not know how to sweat pipes. Copper is never going away and you’ll have to know how to do it if you really want to have any long term value
Too much heat, and applying only flame tip to the fitting is best. I'm a rank amateur, but even I solder better than that. 😂
Pro-Press is awesome, but always remember to note the pro-s versus the cons. With pro-press there is a rubber washer that will eventually fail while a soldered joint will likely outlast the building. I get it why professional trades are moving to using Pro-press, but I do feel that a professional charging a professional price should not take shortcuts.
I wish there was a press fitting without the rubber gasket. Hmm, I guess then that would be called Pex pipe. Speaking of Pex, even though I love copper, I do really like using Pex and I trust that Pex will last.
The rubber washer is not the primary sealant in the system - it is a failover. It is the copper crushed against itself. This technology is older than most plumbers, but we understand old plumbers can't learn new tricks.
Im not a plumber but I watched a video recently where the plumber takes out the O rings on a pro press fitting and it still didn’t leak
@@richardcollyer1014I agree that removing the rubber seal, and water may not leak, but for how long? I've also seen videos of plumbers stating that when they tried removing the o ring, initially there was no leaks, but later on, there was a leak.
Good question !!
My Plumbing Instructor who's been plumbing for 30 years said that Press on fittings are much better than soldering, but you may still have to braze certain underground joints.
Pro press has a black rubber o ring. It got popular because California freaks out about the negligible amount of lead in solder.
Ask your instructor why is it better than a properly soldered joint? "Better" is a subjective term. Better how? Pro press is better for a repair on say 2" copper that runs horizontal through an emergency room because it's fast,and you can have a bit of water still in the pipe,whereas soldering you can't. Soldering is better because it lasts longer than a propress joint. Pro press is good for service. It has it's place.
Also, remember this:
Always always always heat the pipe first,then the fitting. Thermal expansion occurs inside the fitting when you heat the pipe first,so when you heat the fitting, it's already heated from the inside out.
I've been soldering/brazing copper for 20 plus years and this is the way to tell who can solder properly or not. Guys that heat the fitting first are doing it wrong. I went to the copper institute in Michigan and everything I learned before going there was 100% the same.
Taking soldering away from plumbers is taking the art and skill away from our job. Tell your instructor that.
Better why?
@@Energia-977 You go Gurlll !!! lol (I agree)
@@KD-hi6hh 🤣 Thanks!(in girl's voice)
You still can’t stop what’s comin Daddy…..soldering is headed into the history books, quickly.
Your soldering tip is dirty.
Him: “I love having tools to make it easy”
Also him: I prefer old school solder joints.
We can technically solder but if we solder in place we have to charge the customer several hours as we have to stay on site to verify no fires per corporate.
when im doing hydronic systems i prefer the pro press
Not being allowed to solder is absolutely insane. We dont get stocked with solder fittings, but of course youre allowed to carry the tools and stock yourself with fittings on a PO as needed
Someone’s been doing too many UA-cam videos and not enough soldering. I kid. Pro press is invaluable but I don’t know how plumbers can get by without soldering. We still use lead stubs on toilets so you have to solder there but there’s other options. The one place you can’t escape it is commercial plumbing. You cannot install a flushometer without soldering the marvel adapter. Also when you run cast iron drains you have to use copper trap arms. If your drain is perfectly lined up you can get away with using a nipple but any 45 outside the wall or if you have to arm over in the wall you have to use copper and as far as I’m aware DWV copper fittings are solder only. There’s also lots of situations where soldering is better. Some places you can’t fit a pro press but you could fit a torch. Soldering also gives you options. The supply house was out of bell reducers of a certain size that I needed in pro press so I just got a sweat one. There’s also situations where soldering is much faster. Recently I installed a water heater up high on a wall. Between the expansion tank, vacuum breaker, valve and all the fittings to tie in a recirc pump and connect to the water heater there were a bunch of fittings and the space was tight. Having to be up on a ladder and wait for the press to finish then remove and try to find the best way to press the next one took forever. I wished I had had the sweat fittings to do it. Even with having to clean/flux each fitting it would have been faster because I could start on one end and just work my way down. With how conductive copper is once you solder the first fitting, the heat travels so well, you can do the rest really fast. There’s just so many ways that soldering can be better that’s it seems stupid to eliminate it completely.
As for soldering vs press systems as a whole, I wonder how well press will hold up 20-30 yrs from now. I see soldered fittings that are 70+ yrs old all the time. Will press fittings last that long or will they heat a certain point where they just start failing. I guess we don’t know yet. Solder is also better in freeze situations. I learned this during the big Texas freeze two years ago. Solder fittings stay together so your pipe might expand or even split but pro press is much worse. We had a 40’ long 1” line going to an RPZ for watering planters on a 10th floor balcony in downtown Austin. The electricians didn’t turn on the breaker for the heat wire around it so it froze. I think there were 3 couplings in it and every single one pulled completely apart. Because the fittings hold together with crimped copper and copper is soft it effectively uncrimped it. Both systems will end up with a leak but the difference is a small split in the pipe versus a full port pipe opening letting out water. Something to think about
Solder joint looks way more professional when done right.
I still clean and reem everything when I propress. I think you should also
I can’t afford the power press tool. The hand press tools are in the low $100’s and I’m struggling with all this. This also includes shark-bite. I know how to solder but not what you call an expert so this discussion is frustrating. I’d rather the conversation discuss the long term reliability and how best to handle different tools.