How Does Bungie Follow Up The Final Shape? | Destiny 2
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- Today, we're taking a look at an article from Paul Tassi that goes over an interesting comparison of The Final Shape to The Avengers series. Will the climax of the light and darkness saga lead us to a story fall off in the episodes coming afterwards? We discuss what storylines may be available for Bungie to deliver on following The Final Shape.
#destiny2 #bungie #thefinalshape
Paul Tassi's Article: www.forbes.com...
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In D3, the first raid boss I heard will be Datto. There will be 4 encounters. It’s chamber like structures thru a vast land that lead to “The vault”.
It's why he made us delete our Guns
@@ABlackGuyAdept he has them, in the vault, his vault!!!
@@ABlackGuyAdept ❤️
You win by deleting god roll weapons
And after he goes into witness protection...
The nine showing up and eating the witness would be the most wild ending and I want it.
Same
Nah, players need a significant hero moment here. The players need to be the one to end the witness
It really would be another moment where we'd be like, "WAIT! NO! WE GOT PLAYED AGAIN?!"
It would be so unsatisfying but also so awesome.
@@ready1player31 it’s fine, we can eat the witness while the nine watches.
We beat the plague in the traveller and follow the witness into another dimension but it treads into Nine Territory and gets Merked.
Fade to black... ...Final Shape raid is The Nine.
9 encounters.
9 Bosses in 9 different dimensions.
9 Player Raids
Please 🙏
There's actually a lot they could do. There's tons of stuff in the lore that they can expand on like taking back the cabal's home world or stuff with the nine. They can always introduce new species as well.
Thought the hive destroyed torabatl
@@MrAlaverge1 I think it was just the surface? I unno
Besides that bungie already said we're not leaving our solar system so there's still stuff to do
But what I hope is they wrap up some old loose ends with the three episodes and then bring in a potential new threat
That, and tbh destiny players like shooting things. Story comes second.
I want a Nine-styled raid.
I always wanted to see the Nine’s interpretation of us guardians as raid bosses with the penultimate boss being an amalgamation of all three guardians together to fuse a “perfect” image.
Would be pretty dope.
I wonder how they will be able to keep the Dread around, lore-wise, when the Witness is gone. I hope they’re not just for the Final Shape
Just like the Taken are still around. Oryx is dead but the taken are more or less autonomous now. They might have help from Xivu. I think the dread will stick around in some way. I could see the Vex playing their hand in the dread some way.
There will always be a bigger one
I really hope they do what they did in d1 with strikes after the taken king came out. Add the dread to some of them. Or they could even go crazy and add them to root of nightmares, I always felt like the cabal being there was pretty lame
The problem with the Dread that makes you tell they are obviously shoehorned in as a way to save face just before destiny dies completely is that they don’t have any narrative history, and won’t. They are very obviously all transformed versions of either clones of the Witness’s previous Disciples or species we have already seen. They are even explained to not really have any proper autonomy and be completely under the Witness’s control. I take that is them never having any autonomy and I don’t think they ever will. If we defeat the Witness completely then the dread are gone. They’ll drop like that one scene from the first avengers when the Chitari ships got nuked and all the soldiers just fell to the ground. And even if they did come back, what would their narrative be? To fulfill the Witness’s Final Shape without it? Or discover that they have autonomy now and how “life is so crazy and amazing when you’re free”? We’ve seen that already so who cares!?
My hopeful prediction is that we defeat the witness and it splits into the species it consisted of, and we get the enemy type that was shown in that 5-panel species preview back from 2014, specifically the yellow panel.
The problem with this phase of the mcu has been the quality..look at how excited people are about deadpool/wolverine...we just want quality movies...X-Men 97 is getting mad hype right now! Give us quality content
Indeed. People wanted quality, but Disney wanted quantity.
Also before Endgame, going to a couple big movies with friends a few times a year was a good time out and easy to justify.
With most of the MCU content being dull D+ shows MCU content stopped feeling like an event but just frustrating 6 week slogs that were pretty much entirely separate shows with no connection.
I'm not exactly gonna invite friends over to binge She Hulk or Moon Knight compared to say going out to see No Way Home. You have to dedicate more time now, but with less reward for actually staying up to date since they have no real connection.
The big problem pre vs post Endgame is interconnectivity. The beginnings of the MCU gave each main hero a stand alone movie introduction and then every other movie had subtle hints and cross overs that you knew was building to an Avengers team up, it was a question of how and why. Then each phase was again slowly building to a big Avengers but this time more cross over and interconnectivity. Since Thanos its just been random shows/movies about random characters, building to nothing. There is no sense of oh yeah these are our new Avengers. If the next MCU movie was Avengers 5 and came out next year, who would even be on the team?
@@Mashangi this is also a problem. As good as season 1 of loki was. I haven't had a desire to watch season 2...
Loki was the best thing they made since Endgame
I'm going to safely assume that Episodes are goin to be like the expansions Bungie released when Activision owned then, similar to the size of warmind/CoO
We can already tell by what content we’ll be getting in them that they’ll definitely be bigger than seasons at the least so maybe.
they said in the vidoc that episodes will be on the scale of shadowkeep
This is what I feel too, basically what D1Y1 & D2Y1 were
I feel like seasons are already bigger than that
@@onion7117we NEVER got a new planet or strikes in a season
In the final shape collectors edition there’s a bit of lore that states basically that one of the precursors (witness race before the civilisation merged) left their system before the merge happened, meaning there’s a possibility they’re still out there somewhere. It’d be really cool to meet whoever that is and to see what the witness’s race was like
My money's on Osiris. Don't really have anything to back up that claim except that he likes to cover his face the same way the Precursors do in Ahsa's story. Or....
The Guardian. 🤯
@@mikethehunter5212 that would be an insane plot twist
My head cannon is that the precursor who fled ended up merging with The Traveler and his friend ended up becoming the more dominant consciousness in The Witness. The reason for this is the Precursors refer to the traveler as the Gardener but the witness referred to it as old friend in much the same way the precursor referred to his pen pal before they split.
I don't want another cliffhanger or sequel stinger. I want a fucking ending.
U can have an ending and something setting up for the future
There’s money to be made my friend
@@danranger2821while yes you can, Bungie has NEVER given us a true ending to really anything at all. Even going back to D1 they always leave room open to go back to a story line just in case. I agree with the guy honestly, I want an actual set in stone ending. We can resume a story at the end of the last episode setting up for D3
Same tbh, the ending should be our guardian dying in the final cutscene. Cliffhangers are just too cliche and repetitive in my opinion.
Honestly i want the Gardener and Winnower to be revealed as real characters. Or at least the Gardener and the winnower could be introduced later.
FFXIV ended their story with Endwalker and they're still going strong with Dawntrail coming up. Bungie should probably take a look at them since its more applicable.
ffxiv did a really good segway into Dawntrail, after all the despair and deity conflict, by the end of your journey in endwalker you are just trying to take a break from it all and Dawntrail makes it feel like the next journey will be a breath of fresh air with new lands and wonder almost giving the feeling of a much deserved vacation
Why would Bungie copy a more confusing game then Destiny?
@@lazyvoid7107 I can assure you that XIV's lore is far more clear and concise than destiny's lmao.
@@lazyvoid7107 14 is far cleare than d2. my friend booted up d2 and didnt even know there was pvp. i had to show him how to approach the campaigns
It’s taken me up to this video to realise that Az is literally just Destiny Alex Jones
“Now this here is bio-identical to ether and will cure all your vault stuffing woes!”
@@kmhowells2 "I don't want em putting darkness in my light that turn the frickin ghosts gay!!"
I hope that they make a destiny 3 set far in the future with a new guardian. You’d be able to begin telling a new story that can still tie in old characters. I think what destiny is really missing right now is the part that made the lore so captivating in the first place: mystery. A new story in deep space would bring back a lot of the wonder that has naturally worn off as a result of 10 years of story development.
It would be cool. New guardian, new characters and new galaxy. And then the story of current destiny gets subtly told or we find out the cause of its extinction
The lore behind the Nine can be seen as the equivalent of the Void Lords of WoW. They create/manipulate life to do their bidding while they basically sit back and watch. This is what is believed to be the origins of the Ahamkara--the Nine possibly creating them. I don't know if there is anything stating that as fact, but the Nine were pissed at Oryx when he took Riven, and they manipulated the Awoken and the Guardians to kill the remaining Ahamkara instead of destroying them personally. I find them to be the most interesting, but I honestly think having beings that powerful existing outside of the perceptive universe in Destiny makes them feel too OP, but at the same time meaningless because they don't really do anything.
The nine didn't create anything as far as I know. Their origins are unknown, I think, but they are sustained by intelligent conscious beings, like humans. For them to live we have to live. They didn't create the ahamkara, they were trying to use the ahamkara to make physical bodies for themselves which is kinda why the ahamkara were wiped out. The shit that the nine were doing freaked guardians out on Venus
Drifter is one of the coolest character in destiny. I would love a seperate destiny prequel that has you playing as drifter beginning with his first resurrection.
2:46 bungie: write that down, write that down!
That was such a clever idea from cross, bungie needs to get him as a lead on story.
A little late to make it so hahahaha
pls no..... we have to lose.
They be like “ERASE EVERYTHING AND USE THIS NOW!”
@@jacobboucher777 we have to lose? Like we all die?
What if day 1 raid is also connected to a community event in Final Shape? Raiders can go and tackle the raid while everyone in the community do public event like activities across all the planets so they can strenghten the raiders or weaken The Withness back in the raid. These can be pretty chill activities like collecting, destroying or even merging light and dark energies, so people can still watch the raid streams and chat about whats going on while playing. Challange can be the amount of activities required. Idk it's probably just copium, but hey they are on a win streak nowadays.
Having a war on two fronts with the hardcore and casuals uniting to push the darkness back...
Someone at Bungie: "Get this man a job!"
@@gramdalfthewhite Ah man i can only wish :D I can see many people who can't do the raid doing this instead and still helping. That would be the real "endgame" moment. And if we still cant finish it on time everyone crumbles to dust and disconnects. "Pardon our Dust" literally
Bungie tried that “make a decision” quest before. The only thing that changed was what the Drifter called my character.
That was more of a test run than anything tbh, I think they absolutely could do it in a much bigger scale that actually matters.
Haha what a college try
@@jaredcollins2049not a very good test
They also said about wanting to make account wide progress more of a thing for both power levels and story progress, which if the latter comes true would mean it's an account wide choice
I think, from that lore video, that The Witness is the culmination of the civilization's self sacrifice that encountered the Traveller/The Gardener first. They found the Gardener's anithesis in the Veil, and The Winnower is the entity or method they needed to use the Veil to give meaning to the chaotic light that they weilded. So they brought it to the Gardener, and the Gardener refused to interact with the Veil, the thing that gave the people of Lubrae the power to create the Winnower. The Witness is not the Winnower, it is the weilder of it. The Witness is the people of Lubrae, trying to impose order on and orderless universe. The "Traveller", the "Great Machine" and the "Gardener" are just many race's names for the same entity. Im curious to know if the Traveller was conceived on Lubrae. Or if this was only another species trying to control the Light, and chasing it again. Perhaps there are even more ancient enemies searching for it.
Also one thing you got to consider is that the reason everyone was not interested after endgame wasn't even just the "burnout", it was the fact that everyone we gave a shEt about ended thwir contracts.
Guardian wars! What bigger enemies than God killers?
Oh, like if the factions came back and we started fighting each other? That would be pretty interesting.
I mean, canonically there's only ONE god killer.
I keep thinking that the next step, after Final Shape, is going out into space. To explore the galaxy and leave this solar system. To be the Vanguard of explorers.
Cope
Wasn't that in a leak once
@@lazyvoid7107 I don't know. I can't recall. It would be cool if it was true!
On that Civil War point: Remember back during Season of the Drifter after forsaken, where we had a quest from drifter to choose sides, btw him and the Vanguard? It said it would have huge implications on the future and then absolutely nothing happened with it since.
I really want to believe the rumors of D3 are true, I'm not ready to say goodbye. I just feel like they woudlnt make any these changes/updates for it to be over with next DLC.
Sony pretty much bought Bungie entirely because they're impressed with Destiny and want it to continue. No way Bungie abandons this cash cow. Wow and osrs/runescape have proven that people will play games for 2+ decades.
Bungie would be complete idiots to throw away Destiny like they did with Halo.
If D2 continues after TFS/episodes I hope D3 doesn't happen (unless certain stuff carry over). Imo they've been making changes to D2 that seem kinda pointless to make if it was ending after episodes (things like in game lfg is a big thing to implement, but I find it weird to just move on after adding such a thing)
I feel like it will also depend on the success of it's other new games aswell, like marathon
@@beeman4266d3 will be an even bigger cash cow
I hope d3 happens but hear me out. What if they had a plot where we would venture out beyond the solar system in d3, see other planets that have been visited by the traveler or something, and kept d2 going at the same time in the solar system dealing with the vex and whoever else is still a threat. Dunno if they have the manpower to support 2 games like that though, maybe it's a bad idea.
Thing with destiny is theres a ton of lore that hasnt been delved into. The nine is a biggest one but theres so much more. Plus any new adventures outside our solar system can be linked to the existing lore as the light and dark stuff went universe wide so despite us not having met whoever it is before we will have links in terms of experiences
I want Rogue guardians especially since it's in the lore. Imagine in open world space like public events which could get a major update as well, where kinda like division where u could get some exclusive stuff for either what side u choose and u could fight it out for a short time to take other exclusives from other guardians
Your breakdown of Destiny Civil War was how we dealt with the Witch Queen. Ikora and Eris had one way and Zavala and others had another.
Eat? Why eat? Ha Ha! man I was so traumatized as you were describing them eating him.
Imagine the Traveller and the Veil are two of the Nine. 7 more out there, waiting to be explored in d3
Morgan freeman as the gardener would be great 😂😂
How about Angelina Jolie?
Heres the possibility for future stories;
Stories about the Nine.
Drifter stories because he has some of the unique stories.
Eramis stories.
Clovis is still around in europa.
Lysander aka concordat the faction that gave us the skimmer.
Lady efrideet is still out there.
And of course the Vex and Xivu.
You can do many standalone stories if Bungie needs time to make their next saga standalone stories is probably the better option.
While there can be interesting stuff after it, Idk if ill ever be interested in the story as much as i am currently after TFS, the Witness stuff is what kept me hooked & even made me return to the game after i took a break (Arrivals). Once the Traveler & the Witness are resolved, idk if itll be as enticing to me
Dont worry there will always be a bigger one
U will see
@@swe_myth7354 doesn't mean I'll like it, part of me kinda would've liked it if Destiny fully concluded with the Witness's defeat
@@BrazarB u dont want the destiny 3 ?
I get what u mean
I agree with you cross that I think The Nine will be the next “thing” we are dealing with after the Light and Darkness saga ends. Perhaps they push the Aphelion into our worlds and not just in the Ascendant realm. Prequel episodes would be kinda cool, like going back and getting to be around in the Dark Age or early City Age.
Isn't the bit about Vex not having sent their actual fighters something that could just be, like, Calus' opinion, man?
There iiiiiiiis the Europa portal 🤔
I've been saying this for years but civil war would be awesome for D2. Like different human factions going up against each other or some kind of turmoil within the city. Is it really realistic to assume that all the city's people get along? Maybe there's some kind of high level corruption going on that we discover.
Idk bro with prismatic coming I wouldn’t want to go back in time
The Gardener and the winnower are not actual characters, they just serve as cosmic metaphors in the Unveiling lore book, likely written by The Witness.
Exactly, bro is taking the Witness’s creation myth and taking it literally
ua-cam.com/video/PNyM5zYFVR0/v-deo.htmlsi=Nr_cfTmCT7LqwZF9
I don’t know man. The winnower is pretty clearly not the Witness. The Witness _may_ be the champion of the winnower, but he is a very different character.
They are. And Unveiling wasn't "likely written" by The Witness.
@@nanashimodesuwho was it written by?
@@turntwiggybecause they ain't myths dawg it's up to interpretation
if the traveller is the light (bestows the gift of light on those whose virtues and actions reflect its goals)
the veil is Prismatic (a blend of light and dark that coexist and allow the user to enhance one or the other or both within an undetermined set of boundaries or guidelines; the witness uses darkness with the veil to LEARN about entering the traveller and LEARN how to continue making strides towards its final shape, and the witness uses the light with the veil to mold the universe into its final shape and maybe was using the light in the process of it MAKING the portal)
and this unknown object we havent seen yet but will probably learn about in final shape is the darkness.
This is a perfect example of why Marvel was at its peak during the 2010s. Cross cant even remember that there was never an Avengers:Civil War. It was Captain America:Civil War. But it was so epic and big, that it felt like an avengers movie. And it was written by the Russo brothers who also wrote the Endgame and Infinity War. What a time for movies.
The 2 big plot points I want to see in episodes 1.) Xivu Arath never seen her in person and she’s incredibly weak after Eris destroyed her throne world. 2.) Eramis disappeared after the traveler was grounded and she is kinda neutral she hates what the witness does to her fallen kin via scorned but she also hates the light bc of the whirlwind.
Just wanna remind everyone that the Witness did NOT write the book of Unveiling. The author there does not mach the tone that the Witness has which begs the question on who or what was it that talked to us in that book?
Here b4 all the lore fanatics come who want to defend the possibility that it was badly retconned and now the witness is th Autor
You are right, the tone does not Match, they dont even want the same final shape, the battle in the garden really happened, because we literally have the stump of the tree of silver wings in the Black garden and the grids of flowers for the flower game and ingame dialogue speaking about the destroyed tree, then we have eido herself saying the winnower and the witness dont act the same, so even if the book is some religious text, it speaks of historical accounts that happened, meaning someone fought in the garden and destroyed the tree of silver wings, and there is nothing ingame that clearly says the gardener and winnower never existed. So either this storyline with the winnower or gardener was a thing for a long time and bungie just recently scrapped it and really badly retconned it like they have done so many times (nezarec for example was one of the worst retconns) or its still a thing and bungie keeps their cards close to their chests.
What they could do is either have a few years of story or something about restoring sol or/after that we could go to new/ different systems or planets beyond sol. Could have a dangerous discovery or discover a new race of aliens that we could team up with or something. They could go crazy
"Destiny 3: Beyond""
Destiny 3: Eververse
“After you face the witness, we are going to tell you what’s coming next to destiny 2… and Beyond” - Luke Smith 😳😮
Hey, that's my title for i! Haha!
Generic af
the whole "Civil War" idea already sorta happened. Back in season of the drifter, whenwe got to choose Drifter or the vanguard
Minor version obviously because this happened during Joker's Wild/Season of the Drifter, not a DLC. Could expand on this in the future
The thing with bungee is though they have a lot of stories that still need answers or etc. Like they could do a DLC that we go to Torabottle and help the Cabal from the hive.
D3- Prologue- We travel around rescuing distant systems from the remaining Witness forces. Xivu and her brood have aligned with the Vex and become cyborg hive. They launch an assault against us.
Why isn’t Cross on the writing team?
Because his solution to everything is "make friendly become evil" lol
The Unveiling Lore book that describes the Winower and gardener is not told to us by the witness, its from the perspective of the entity known as "The Winower". As asa said, the traveler and the light causes chaos and destruction to the universe, like how the gardener changed the rules in the game to break the pattern of the final shape that it thought was boring and dumb. This caused all the flowers to wilt and die and be reborn constantly never reaching a true end. Asa says that when the Witness' orgininal people found the veil it taught them how to create the final shape, or restore the flower game to its intended pattern that the gardener had disrupted with the chaos of the light. When the Witness' people tried to use the veil to return reality back to the final shape, the way the flower game was intended to play, the traveler fled not wanting its plans to be ruined because it is trying to change the game of reality. The Winower is just sitting back reaping the dead flowers knowing that eventually the pattern will be restored no matter what the gardener does because entities like the witness will always find the truth and try to restore reality to how it should be in its eyes. So yeah there are still two super cosmic entities out there somewhere that are the winower and the gardener and they do interact with reality through the traveler and the veil. Its possible they are beings similar to The Nine but much older and more powerful since they have been around since before the creation of reailty and The Nine have only been around since the creation of our solar system.
The only thing we know about the nine is that Jamal needs to calm down.
World of Warcraft has gone through similar struggles in following up the cosmic big bads that had been established in their original titles. Bungie needs to avoid the trap (that Blizzard fell in) of power scaling their villains and trying to make someone bigger and badder than the Witness. There are plenty of loose ends in the Destiny universe that could be tied up (Eramis, Xivu, The 9). Our goals need to shift from saving the universe (again) and struggling to survive, to settling our scores and exploring along the way.
My prediction for Episodes will be
1: The Dread attempt to corrupt/kill the Traveler after giving up on the Final Shape
2: Bringing back Fikrul the Fanatic and comparing our immortality to the Scorns
3: Xivu-Arath attempts to resurrect Oryx after colluding with the Scorn
They lost me when I found out they were using Destiny funds TO MAKE ANOTHER GAME. Constantly talking about attracting a new player base instead of staying loyal to the loyal group of players. To quote lockdown” The problem with being loyal to a cause is, the cause will always betray you.
Not just 1 game.
I mean yeah i partly see where you're coming from here but this is how it works and has allways worked. No game devs sink all their profits back into the game that made the profits. If this were the case there would never be growth.
You sell a product take part of the revenue to make the next one.
People are talking about this as of this is not the industry standard and allways has been.
While a Drifter season specifically wouldn't be my first choice I think the idea is a good one. I'd be down for an espionage related one where we work directly with Ikora's Hidden to uncover some mystery that arises after taking down the Witness. Bungie has always been able to tell good stories, the twisty turny narrative from the Witch Queen being the highlight for me.
All I wanna know is, is Cayde back, or is he a friggin GHOST in the traveler and he cannot leave?
They could do the dark age, a whole new universe(multiverse), expand on the nine, go to the vex forge star Volantis 2082 and so much more. The Destiny lore is so deep they could easily keep it going another 10 years imo
Personally I'd love to see a civil war thing with the dragon eggs, some think they are too dangerous and now we can back out of our part of the deal and a smaller group wants to keep the eggs and hide or raise the dragons
The most important thing Bungie can do post-Final Shape is that they need to scale back the threats to be smaller and more personal in nature, we don't need to get stuck in that awful cycle of constantly needing to 1-up ourselves every few months after we already peaked.
The start of D3 is us making good on our aliances with House of Light and Caitl and we go get their home planets back and in working order. The overarching story is after Final Shape (whatever it does) it has gotten the attention of The 9, and as the lore has said they have been split into two groups of The 4 and The 5 and players get to pick which group they want to help assist in their goals. The second expansion the Faction leaders come back and have joined to become one faction against Guardians due to the outcome of Final Shape which brings a new enemy faction of humans/exos with light supressing attacks since they know us well. They also have Destiny warlords working with them so they can have revenge on Ikora/Zvala. Also two of Riven's eggs have been found with the 3rd one still missing somewhere, and the found two are starting to hatch...
Episodes would be dealing with old battles we never saw, Twilight Gap, Battle of 6 Fronts, and missions working with the Hidden and Fenchurch.
The winnower and the gardener were hypothetical representations of the Philosophies that the witness and the traveler respectively live under. The whole lore book was a metaphor describing that both their ideologies for how reality "should" function are based off of cosmic principles that have existed before either of them existed, not a historical telling of actual events that happened at the start of the universe. They represent real people and entities, but the story is a framework we should use as a method of understanding them, not defining them in any empirical way.
Marvel went ultra woke and made trash after end game.
Don't use words if you don't know what they mean
Spiderman 3, Shang-Chi, Ant Man 3, Doctor Strange 2 & Guardians 3 were nowhere near trash.
@@fpsmarcusagreed, we have another fool on our hands
During the first 3 phase marvel had a comitee that supervised the quality of their movies but now they don't
💯
By focusing on the vex, literally could go anywhere with them but if we find out how to take the fight to them and go at their existence would be very cool. They’ve been very underutilized and been benchwarmers for sentient robots that are time travelers.
The Final Shape ends and we get a cinematic of Cayde waking up from the fall he had at the start of Forsaken, our Guardian and Petra standing next to him, and he tells us about how he had the wildest dream where he died and went inside the traveler and saw us fight an angry unibrown alien. That's how they justify the sunrise, we are back on Forsaken and everyone is happy.
I would love to see The Drifter have a significant role in TFS or a chapter. He seems pretty knowledgeable on the darkness, light and experiments on both but we never see it.
The problem marvel has is that they put out too much content, regardless if it was trash or not. At least bungie is switching to episodes to give them time to further develop stories
I could see some parts falling out of the Witness in the Raid, that will become the not-final-encounter Bosses so that once we fought them, the Witness is weakened by the time we reach it and can finally defeat it.
you're not in the minority when it comes to an episode of just the Drifter, Dude has always been that character to me that was that "necessary evil", that "mysterious Outlaw" in western movies that just catches your attention. Dude has seen/gone threw some crazy things, and I would just love to have an entire story or just him.
Whatever the Gardener is ... the Traveler is its equivalent of a garden trowel.
Similarly, whatever the Winnower is, the veil is it's idea of a weedwhacker.
If those are their simple tools ... imagine their idea of a supercomputer or a combat craft.
I think a lot of games make a mistake in going harder, higher, faster, more complex, and they eventually lose the average player. Many sequels don’t grow, and sometimes it’s just good to deliver on the experience people expect and love.
The traveler and the veil are the classic yin and yang. Total order and utter chaos. Kind a cool narrative that we master the balance with prismatic
For me there’s three ways that I feel episodes and the story following Final Shape would actually retain players well. 1. Insane loot + dungeon. 2. A story that further broadens the world view of Destiny, maybe something like new factions or enemies (maybe the Nine) filling in the space the Witness left behind (Xivu will probably fit this, but I can’t help but see it as a downgrade from the scale of the Witness). And 3. Creating more down to the ground, tight stories that focus on character building in a better way than weekly small story drops. This could be following the story of the Drifter, learning more about him (especially because season of the Drifter was years ago and no longer in the game for newer players), then moving onto his links to the Nine, maybe encountering what he and his crew saw on that ice planet (not sure if it was confirmed to be Europa). Y’know, maybe venture down under the ice of Europa where we hear the creature roars coming from. I dunno. Something exciting or well plotted out.
I agree. I would love to have a story about the Drifter and the nine. There is so much potential in the stories of Destiny. I stopped playing for several reasons, but one of those was because the stories started feeling more like a fanfiction or too quick with little explanation around the time the game became a live service. I also may be in the minority with that sentiment, but it would be cool to delve into these stories.
They already did that drifter or the vanguard thing and it ment nothing because they didnt follow up on it
I'd like to see how light and dark bases abilities move forward lore-wise, in the series. Do the gaurdians pass away, finally able to rest? Is there some sort I'd synergy between light and dark? Or do we transcend making use of Cloud Strider tech to forge a new breed of guardian?
There's a lot you could do. Like a vex god that eats or absorbs the witness when he's weakened by us at the end of the raid in order to segway into a more "sentience vs ultramind" story
My interpretation of the Gardener and Winnower thing is that the Witness is an emissary of the Winnower which is the capital T capital D “The Darkness” which would mean the traveler is a ship of whatever is the emissary of the Gardener or the capital T capital L “The Light”. Basically that the traveler is kind of a ship or a vessel for whatever directly serves The Gardener
When the witnesses origin story cutscene was revealed, i thought back to the anti-spiral race from gurren lagann. The idea of "spiral" beings, or in other words mortals, are capable of creating and destroying things. "Chaos". And the antispirals halted their evolution and merged their souls into one being and took over the universe to preserve life as they wanted, and control any source for spiral power to be nipped in the bud. The witness is the same idea, we, as the wielders of both light and dark have the ability to conquer the witness. However, as it was shown, just because the main villain dies, doesnt mean trh narrative is over. There will always be new trouble and things to discover. I liked the ending gurren lagann had, but that doesnt mean that the end of that universe. When the witness dies, we will still be here, and honestly after 10 years of destiny, im still down for more. This is by far the most interesting fantasy world/universe i have ever seen. There is a lot more we could do with it, even if its going back in time.
I would love for D3 they would go back to the golden age and show events that lead upto the collapse and the story at the beginning of the collapse. Another option is to show the Darkness side and you get to play as cabal, vex, hive
I think its a smart way of doing the story like this. Obviously the Darkness story is the most important, so it gets the big expansion. But if its like I picture, these first episodes will give us the other conclusions/continuations we need.
No one besides new lights use patrol anymore and I think it’d be a weird but cool thing to revamp the game. What if we did patrol in a division style of gameplay and we have a destiny “dark age” style event. Where going on patrol you get an escalating chance of better loot the longer you’re there BUT other guardians can come in and steal the loot that you’ve gotten during that time period. This idea isn’t polished but having a reason to go to patrol as an end game player would be cool. You could even give each planet unique exotics and legendary drops so you have reasons to go to each planet to grind this gear. I think it’d be a really cool way to revamp a part of the game and it’d fit the lore of “you can use the dark and light for either evil or good as a guardian”
All the language we have to refer to the full spectrum of paracausality in the D2 universe comes from the Witness, or whoever is telling the story in the cutscene. It’s controlled how we interpret and interact with forces since the first risen.
Like you mentioned we have things like the Nine and Xivu, and the exploring places we never been or exploring would be a really good idea, and as for the Civil war idea Byf did make the question on how would organizations within the last city who are super pure about the light react to things like transandence or Osiris's new perspective of what the darkness is?
And on one of the lore cards for Into the light, Ada-1 did mention intrest in gathering things in the cosmodrome while she and Shaax were convincing the foundries to start producing the new versions of the brave weapons.
IMO, civil war is unlikely to happen because of how powerful Ikora really is. Speaking of BYF, he recently pointed this out. We've only seeing glimpses of this in game. Jumping on a thrasher, one-shotting it with a nova-bomb or casing void and arc supers back to back. At least, if it happens, I'll chose her side ;)
They've actually done something like that before, about giving us an actual choice with branching dialogue and quest options. They literally did nothing with it even though they said it was supposed to be "revealed at a later date"....so as much as I would love them to do more individual decision making in the game I do not have very high expectations. With that said though I am ABSOLUTELY DOWN for more planets/locations and actually doing shit with our companions, let me go bounty hunting with drifter, let me take Devrim and Hawthorne to the far ends of the EDZ/cosmodrome for patrol/scavenging, let me do siege operations with Caitl with some warbeasts backing me up. I WOULD LOVE THAT SH*T
This is why we need a xmen first class. We need a pre-qual and have it be the beginning. Let this be our character before his death. We can have siva abilities, cyborg/exo abilities, and first time we see traveler abilities. We could become the first cloud strider. This can be the first fall and how we saved everyone from a full collapse.
I still feel like with the way it's worded and talked about by the narrator. It feels like the one telling us the story of the witness is like someone at the dawn of time, describing what it was like as the world as we know it took shape.. It almost follows the line of one of my favourite book series The Belgariad By David Eddings.
The one narrating is an emissary or "counsellor " to the gardener , the gardener is actually most likely the Leader of the Nine or the "Head" of the table .
The 9 are the polar opposite to the witness . Where the witness is a monstrosity amalgamation of all its people into one being. The Gardener and the 9, is one being seperated into many as to watch over and observe the universe .
Something happened in the universe that we don't know about yet that is causing history to repeat in different timelines and ways but until something happens or collides in our timeline/universe to trigger an event to fix the mistake from the past, we're doomed to repeat everything .
Which is why, from our perspective , our timeline with the guardians is so significant , our timeline ..where we've made the most allies, became the most powerful version of ourselves, that successfully earned powers of dark and light , we've won battles and wars not won in other timelines which is noted by Elsie and the reason she stays with us including the saving of characters long dead in other timelines.
US as players are watching the first multiverse in history to succeed in getting this far against the witness .
The 9 gift, observe and guide us, like a greek God trying to get a task done without actually interfering .
The witness is the weed that needs to be removed from the garden of the universe but can't be fully intervened, so pieces and players are put in place to make our world a massive simulation (exactly what the vex do) Essentially letting our ecosystem defends its selfs like.
my guess is the vex leave us alone a bit , we kill or change the witness to the point where the vex can step in now and be the main problem going forward but in full force . They simulated that our timeline has the highest success chance to defeat the witness and the weakest we would be after the fight . defeat the witness , vex arrive , the nine reveal themselves and essentially become the new "vanguard " and we recover our loses and decide what move we'll do next because this is uncharted territory in every timeline and multiverse in existence
I think speculating on the story at this point does nothing but set up disappointment because on three devs end they’ve already finished the story. And when we do this (not saying I’m not guilty of it) we get ourselves hyped up for this crazy shit we think of and then it turns out they didn’t do what our brain thought of and were disappointed. Tough
There's actually a name for this, but I can't remember it right now. It's used a lot in horror movies and such. Basically, the human mind can imagine so many possibilities to happen. When something actually shows up and doesn't match those high expectations, the audience gets disappointed. People fear darkness more than the mobster itself because it is unknown and there are so many possibilities with it.
There is a tracker for every vale scattered across the cosmos in galaxies
The issue with Marvel is that they decided to bring out a shit ton of IPs that no one has heard of or is interested in, as well as making the “plot” (multiverse shenanigans) interconnected between these movies which makes watching these movies more of a chore to catch up on the plot.
D2 after FS, if the defeat of the Witness in (terms of narrative) is able to effectively set the stage for a new threat, could easily continue. Bungie has so many loose ends that can take the power vacuum from the Witness and succeed in being the new interesting antagonist.
Honestly, if you want a "Destiny: Civil War" style story, just bring us back to the dark ages. The Iron Lords, Hive, Cabal, Eliksni.. Bungie could easily go back on their lore and let us experience those stories.
The Winower and The Garderner have been playing the longest DnD campaign in the history of everything.
Anything Paul tassi says I expect the opposite. The man will entertain anything that he sees bringing viewers
They had the whole layout for a year of destiny civil war. There was a mission back in the day where you chose to side with the drifter or the vanguard.
What he described about choosing sides and locking you in to different sides and stories... We already did that over a year ago. "Drifter will remember your choice".
Dang, goes way deeper than I could have ever imagined.
The drifter storyline tangent could also make since if "The Game" the Nine always talk about is over when the Witness is defeated. He could be looking for a new something to do..
After Avengers: Endgame, Disney went crazy and released way too many shows and movies instead of letting things rest for a year to plan out what is next carefully. So both the quality of the films/shows dropped because there were so many, and people got superhero movie/show fatigue. It also didn't help with the superhero fatigue with the DCU pretty much being a flop with a few exceptions.
@Aztecross, I'll use an famous novel series for my example: The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan. It consisted of 15 + volumes. It was originally going to be a trilogy, however it was extended but sadly the author passed away and it was later finished by Brandon Sanderson. It was basically told as a complete narrative...no continuity breaks. IMO, that was its weakness. Destiny is in a similar scenario. The Saga has been running 10 years and it has to end. The upcoming Episodes should be designed to clean up the remaining plot threads and lore. What I'm suggesting is that Destiny 3 (or something like that) is inevitable! The mechanics may not have to change, but we must move forward narratively. Face the Nine or leave the Sol system, for example.
They can do what Disney did with the shows and movies. Disney used the means of certain characters to bring about the multiverse arc. Using Loki and Wanda and there mini series of what if they created the multiverse. Bungie can use characters to bring about certain stories leading up to either another DLC or D3
I like the whole idea of fusing guardian classes together, like in Dragon Ball Z how they fuse bodies to make a stronger being for a limited time to take out a boss. Make it a once per activity activation when 1 or more guardians are in a fireteam for a power grab option like a super, but even better! Idk just throwing shit out there
The problem with Destiny lore is that there are a lot of information provided to the player via lore book that bungie themselves say 'might be false information' or say 'this lore book is full of lies because it is from so and so's perspective, who is a liar'. So that narratively speaking they can retcon the whole story if they feel it is not good. I hate this.
The witness is essentially the darkness. The traveler is essentially the light. They can't invent a bigger bad guy than what we got.
They can only go back and fill holes in the story plots.
Storylines/episodes would be cool if they took place before and during events of light dark storyline. Faction war like what happened before in lore, would be fun fighting other guardians. I hope the vex gets more serious, would be a trip if we were in a simulation this whole time.
Would be interesting if Bungie actually did something meaningful with having players had to choose a side with the Vanguard or Drifter years back.
The Nine are the collective spirits of the solar system planets being self aware essentially if i remember correctly from BYF.
The witness is basically a whole group of psychopaths merged as one. Fantastic