@@SmtYet Ok that is a stretch. Current Hsr powercreep cannot be compared to cookie run kingdom. That game is the definition of powercreep. Hsr need 8 more firefly to be at the same level as that game
My problems with HSR: 1. two five stars at every patch from the beginning are not necessary 2. jumping from Jingliu to Acheron in a few weeks makes no sense 3. the number of four stars compared to five stars
1. They make money of people pulling for waifus. As long as every waifu pops out, they will swipe and pull. 2. Jingliu to Acheron was about over half a year. 3. 4 stars are just trash after 1 year. Don't even bother. Mihoyo revenue is based on gacha addicted players who pull for waifus. They know this and they will continue to put up characters as fast as possible.
Two new 5 stars is all right since hsr has nothing to offer besides combat content and you get bored with repetitive activities. Then how does “jumping” make no sense? The game content is build around combat we need more dps diversit. What does not make sense is how acheron is became mid dps in the end of penacony and it will happen with every dps because of hp inflation. 4 stars in this kind of game will be always worse then their 5 star alternative and it is harder to obtain so although you are right about the number of 4 stars, but their quality is not gonna be good and useful in a long run, they just exist to try out new mechanics thats it. So there is almost no point to release new 4 star every patch. I also see that people who more “lucky” with their pulls are more than happy to have two 5 stars every path then people how cant get shit. But it is alright statistic will make its magic and unlucky become lucky. Hsr is just trying out different path of monetising the game so they push you to invest more in chars then actually needed so if you are willing to stay f2p you will need to spent more time farming and retrying. Or you can pay and save your time.
2:00 This is what no one seems to understand or properly bring up when it comes to the powercreep topic in HSR. We have only had 1 solid year of this game yet we look like we’re in year 3 of power difference
i always put genshin as comparison and it seems hoyo is fully capable of balancing the game throughout the years, just look at hu tao who was 1.x characters and yet still fully capable of clearing current endgame and still comparable tu current pyro dps like arlecchino albeit a bit worse
@@chelo136 that data is not e0s0. Just like last time, seele is faster but guess what, the team is E6 Seele, E2 Sunday, E2 Robin. So your argument is invalid lol
@safwanYT yeah because only old units can use eidolons .... Lol old units eidolons are weaker by far , to the point is always worth it to pull for support eidolons over the dps ones . What about the rest of old units compiting with new ones lol , bronya eidolons too strong that Make her beat them Robin , sunday etc Keep coping with your biased narrative , numbers don't lie
@@BiBiren oh id “YES offence” like what is it with asian gacha players mentality what they are alright with that? Its feels like it just the cultural and political and educational problem - western players are addressing the problem and trying to communicate and leaving the game but asians be like “challenge excepted more money for my wifu and more hours of grinding for best relics” seems like they genuinely enjoying being fuck for their own money
back when it was blade IL and jingliu there was a solid argument for how each did their damage and it was a genuine tradeoff, so the powercreep discussion had a meaningful back and forth discussion. Nowadays there's so much healthbar bloat and obnoxious powercreep that 100k damage isn't even enough to clear out the fodder in MoC12
I can't beat bug boss on floor 12 with Jingliu, who is my favorite character. Once I got Rappa I 2 cycled it. You can't say skill issue cause I'm the same guy using both characters. The whole game is just about weakness break.
It's supposed to be like that from the start, but hoyo as genius as they are, need 1 year before we can actually capitalize on that in form of of course "new mechanic and characters". Because before superbreak there's no much difference between broken enemy or not, they die before they even got weakness break
Also no, the whole game isn't about weakness break. You sound like a league of legends player. The games hardest and most rewarding mechanic is proper speed tuning. You can 100% clear with jingliu, go look videos. It boils down to either no eidolons, no skill, and bad hoyo balance. But not just hoyo's fault
it's either skill issue or low investment. i finished swarm in 2 cycles with jingliu, no eidolons. sunday E0S1, robin E0S0 and huohuo E0S0 and it was very simple
@@shutup1037 honestly as long as the old character in question actually becomes good i don't mind because team building is a core mechanic in any combat system. if it's a miniscule universal buff, then i have a problem
@@shutup1037 and that's sad because most of the old characters are fan favorite like blade and jingliu, and buffing them would have made them A LOT of money as people would finally feel safe getting them. The crap they tried with yunli failed as they basically made a fixed version of Clara and no one cared
and the fact that there are less 4 * characters in this game like almost every team that like work are full of 5 * and the new characters that are teased all of them are 5* i think ?? like when was the last time a 4* character was realeased?? this is why are we are getting 8 banners in 1 patch..!
If you're still wondering, the last 4-star character released was Moze in 2.5. Before him was Hunt March 7th (2.4) and Gallagher (2.1). There really is a concerning lack of 4-stars.
I quit around Boothill. The whole needing S1 minimum to have a tolerable time in endgame without stupid lucky stats on gear was already annoying me. But when I got JingLiu on her rerun and she was already just "okay" instead of as good as she was originally I just completely checked out.
Genshin could never. And honestly, thank god. I understand that comparing a turn based rpg to an open world game isn’t the best comparison but like, one thing I think Genshin gets right is that while Genshin’s postgame is definitely easy a lot of the time, I’m able to keep playing with characters I built four years ago and I prefer that a lot over building a character only for it to be borderline useless in an update or two. HSR already does a lot of things that I think are improvements over what Genshin does, but it REALLY needs to take a leaf out of Genshin’s book in that regard. I understand again that this isn’t the best comparison to make but I really wanna see the HSR team figure it out, because other Hoyo games seemingly have. I hope ZZZ doesn’t fall into the same trap considering its similarities in postgame.
Comparing HSR to genshin pointless because all other hoyo games are action combat you can clear every content with any team comp you want because player skill will simply fill all the gaps of underpowered units bring. Meanwhile HSR is like a chess if you don't have the right pieces you simply cannot do anything. I do believe HSR powercreep is also bad but comparing it to genshin is missing the point of the problem. Genshin powercreep also quite bad but the don't drop 2 units a patch so its progression half the speed.
@@w4hammer not really, you're not going to have enough damage to clear abyss chambers in time if you're using a jank team or underbuilt characters but genshin's endgame is intentionally tuned at a low DPS check so that even the underpowered dps can clear without needing constelations or signature weapons
@@w4hammer You’re absolutely right that it’s not a very good comparison to make, I’ve made that very clear myself, but I only really do so because both are games by the same company and both have very similar structures in the way you build characters and overall approach the game. It may be a very difficult thing to do considering the difference in game but if the HSR team could figure out what could be done to have similar success to Genshin and see what worked in that regard and how they could translate it, it’d be awesome for everyone.
Arknights is a good gacha game, and it makes us used to it when it is an exception, the way they keep the game fresh is making new events with new mechanics so we need to 'learn' the game over, even if the enemies are stronger than before the mechanics in the event are aimed to make them weaker or the mechanic itself is the challenge with a few exceptions, most games don't do the same for the only reason on how hard is to come up with so many different mechanics every time, but i yapped a lot already, in resume AK just keep fresh and new cus of events with new mechanics.
@leonardooliveira8016 honestly that's why I keep coming back to arknights every new event I still have to think about what I'm doing even if I have a team of really op operators.
AK is a very good example of how to deal with powercreep. We have "broken" units like Wisadel, yet you can clear everything without her. There's no need for gacha games to scale the game's difficulty to the strongest characters currently in game, because it fails to take into account people who don't own said broken units. But of course that wouldn't make them more money lol
I think it's just because Arknight is inherently has more room to explore. TD game just have so much potential to expand but turn base game is really hard because it's either time limit that will result in unavoidable damage or enemies have bunch of gimmicks that just can be brute force by pure DPS.
I remember how mad I was at jingliu mains as a jing yuan main. When he started to fall he was the butt of the jokes (of mainly jl and acheron mains).Now I just think it is incredibly UNFAIR how hoyo treats old dps, luocha and silverwolf. Sunday shows it is sometimes such an easy fix. They just refuse to do it.
@ They could save him by using his buff removal mechanic. It could be useful. Silverwolf will just join Sparkle in the " we got replaced by the male pro max version" club. Female dps and male supports are doing well these days.
The main problem is you cant just pull for the dps or support in turn You need the whole team to get through the main content Which means only pulling for characters you like its pointless, and watching the character you like become useless, not even less usable, just downright useless its very disheartening to say the least And on top of pulling you have to build them, its an huge drag having to do that every 2 or 3 months
Its even worse when they offer you a way to make your favorite just a hair better. You just have to pull a character you neither like or actually want. And don't forget all the lcs and eidolons.
Not a HSR player but i do play others like PGR, ZZZ, GFL2 and of course Arknights and i have to say power creep is a thing that while inevitable can be done well enough in most games. You used AK as a best example but ill also bring in PGR (souls meets Nier/DMC), there are definitely stronger units that work better with team comps but at the same most of the older unita still work fine and can do all the current content. This type of stat inflation is just lazy and cheap and doesnt show care in their work becaue if they did they would still show love to older units, plus at only 1.5 y that doesnt bode well for the future content and units.
Look....I want to agree on PGR, but I've been in that game for a long time to know....no powercreep isn't done well, it's the structure of the game that keeps the player from noticing it...which, in the end sure, it comes down to the same thing as you said, of old characters clearing stuff, so that it's alright to have the powercreep. But my point is, every new S rank straight up is a BETTER option to the old s rank in that team, Exhibit A: Gen 1 vs Gen 2, Alpha CA vs Bianca stigmata, for a short time, people were coping that you can still do well in warzone and ppc with just alpha, but nah, straight up halves the time on the physical bosses, even Alpha's leap didn't do anything to elevate that problem. and it's like that with every new S rank, they inevitably replace an old team member for endgame content, Hyperreal replaced Ember, Lamia replaced Luna, Shukra replaces plume and so on. Now, again, you don't really feel the powercreep because A: the characters are always confined to 1 team and EVERY team is needed, so Lee being the worst gen 2 attacker is true, but it didn't matter because he was the ONLY fire gen 2 attacker....and there is no one team that can clear anything. B: Rewards everywhere are participation based, so you really need to only clear stages....not do well in them. And C: it's relatively easy to get all the new chars because there are break patches for f2ps with either A ranks or F2p s ranks. Now, this will change a bit in the future, with character Leaps being affix dmg based, so older characters get used for Affix dmg warzone, but that's more of a bandage solution, because they have their moveset kind of altered in a way that makes them worse for their original element OR doesn't change their moveset for the orginal element. For example, Bianca stigmata will gain a cool Leap, it changes her movest for her Claymore form so that after her basic attack combo instead of the air waves you can do a new ground combo, BUT that combo turns her physical dmg into the new Affix dmg trueslash, the number of her counts turns red and go from the previous 99 to over 100, BUT it doesn't matter because it's no longer physical dmg but trueslash dmg, so for her physical playstyle absolutely nothing changed, it's cool for styling on bosses, but babel has been getting increasingly rarer as time went on, so were would you style on. That is what I mean, there's actually a ton of bad powercreep in PGR, you just don't notice it as the elemental team mechanic and participation based rewards make it kind of a non issue
The issue here is that turn figthing rpgs are the worst when it comes to powercreep, specially when the characters kit its so focused and limited ZZZ might have released miyabi making hellen the worst limited choice but hellen can still pass all content meant for miyabi, just in a less impressive way but shes still useful Characters in SR are slowly becoming useless as time passes and thats awful
im glad in AK powercreep still in the realm of meta not mandatory. Also props to HG for handling difficulty in regular content by increasing the complexity of the mechanic and endgame content with stat bloat
The biggest problem is the game being harder to accommodate the newer, stronger units. I'm fine with FF, Acheron dealing a bazillion damage, as long as my Jingliu can still clear MoC. And it's not just dps, supports are also subject to this. Noticing how showcases of how old dps still being usable in new meta, always contain the newer shiny supports? So then now I'm forced to pull for new units anyway in order to play with my old dps? There's no escape. I just want them to either scale down the difficulty of endgame content (because at this rate only spenders will be able to clear it), or go back and buff older units. Of course, doing either of this means less revenue for them, so it'll show whether they value players more or their money.
The horrible gacha just compounds the powercreep issue. Nearly every other gacha in existence puts newly released characters into the general pool after their banner so you have a chance for dupes but we dont get that option
Yea, I wouldn't mind newer characters being stronger than the old ones But the fact that they constantly increasing MoC dps requirement to the point where a lot of units can't clear anymore even with the right elements just feel sooooo bad Although I'm not sure if it was intentional or not, but my Kafka & Black Swan comp (no sigs) feels kinda good on this rotation, it even outperforms my E0S1 Acheron team for the first half (no Jiaoqiu tho, lol). Maybe they're already on it to make older comps work again, hopefully it'll be better for more teams later on
I think it's also more of they are actually hellbent on the approach of "creating the problem" and "selling the solution", you can literally see the next upcoming MOC rotation on HomdGcat where The Giver, Master of Legions, Lance of Fury on the second half is also probably tailored designed to shill for The Herta given the fight heavily incentives using AoE constantly to destroy the minions to deal with the boss's massive HP pool and attacking constantly to break the boss's war armor for extra damage. Compare that to using 2.0 powerhouses like Acheron which does not work in her favor even if you use Jiaoqiu given that the boss is abysmally slow at like 79 speed? and can at most act once per cycle contributing to one stack and it does not even help when the minions also never literally take action to help Acheron generate stacks. It's also crazy that Feixiao got dumped here as well given that she was released on like September unless you somehow want to make her work here with E1 Jade but that's pushing eidolons already. All in all one of the big problems here also is how they cater to the latest new shiny toy like a seasonal menu and it's not that older units can't completely clear but they definitely will have to work harder or put in some extra copies of their characters just to catch up.
Another day, another rant about HSR power creep, not that I'm complaining it's very much valid. I think the problem stems from HSR trying to replicate other Hoyo endgame modes which are time based by converting them into their cycle-based system. The simplified RPG elements of the game mean the only factor you can change under a 'do this in the least amount of cycles' system is enemy HP, to keep up with more elaborate characters that can do more damage and provide greater buffs per turn. The solution, imo, is that HSR needs to radically change or introduce new game modes that test your team building and use of mechanics in interesting ways that necessitate variety (I really liked the weakness switching suggestion as a simple example) since it prompts experimentation and flexibility and not just optimization. Also buff older characters, especially those without retrains, people put a lot of time into getting them and having them be utterly useless at their power ceiling because they weren't designed for the current power level is ridiculous. If you can't be bothered to directly increase character damage numbers through patches then some kind of upgrade system on the player's ends or powerful character-exclusive relic sets I think could work. New characters should be nice bonuses, not a requirement to play at the base level.
4:00 I thought you are talking about ZZZ lol. It is funny that Mihoyo able to make it balance in another game of theirs, but got super powercreep in Starrail
Thank you. The whole “discussion” Mr Pokke started is completely deflecting from the actual issues people are feeling and really just feels like drama farming. He’s not some vindicated thinker once you actually bite through all the drama fluff he put up, most people agree with his base argument once you hear the nuance. However that’s not the “powercreep problem” and it pissed me off
@@Jarediann Your point is valid, but let me offer an additional perspective to expand on it, not to refute it. Please feel free to correct me if I’m misunderstanding. Which core issue are we discussing? From what I gather in your video, the main issue is that developers are creating problems and simultaneously selling solutions, but doing a poor job of it. Yes, they could manage power creep better and implement the suggestions you made, but let’s consider this from a different angle. From Hoyoverse’s perspective, HSR is a product designed to make money. They might not see the need to invest significant resources into addressing power creep if they can continue making money without doing so. If we understand this perspective, it leads to the conclusion that one of the core issues lies with consumers / players. The company thrives because players continue to spend money, despite the questionable practices. Companies exist to make money, and they do so because consumers choose to buy into their products. yes in my opinion this core issues is the big bad. companies will only change when they start getting significant backlash, either from losing profits or not meeting their targets. A good example of this is ZZZ they’ve been improving because they couldn’t retain players and were facing backlash when ZZZ first launch.
@TheRedimsion I appreciate you offering another perspective. I'm aware that they want to make money, and the way they are doing it is incredible from a financial point of view, and that they have no reason to change it. However, just because I can acknowledge and understand their incentives and why they do something, doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I think as a video game, the core issue of creating a problem and selling a solution is getting old, and they do it to an egregious degree. I sort of agree that players/consumers feed into this issue, but it's not really realistic to expect a majority of the playerbase to boycott the game to make a major change. Which sucks, but that also doesn't mean that I think this issue should go unaddressed. Thanks for the well structured comment, I enjoy having civil discourse!
@@Jarediann I also enjoy having civil discussions. Sometimes I wish I could just talk to someone instead of only writing to get things off my chest. I totally get that, but that’s just how things are right now. I think the quickest way to make a change is through boycotting, but that’s not really realistic at the moment or ever will be realistic, and it’s not the only option. All these discussions and feedback about the game’s issues are important. On a positive note, seeing so many discussions and videos shows the community is still active and healthy. thanks to certain someone who make this issue/topic became relevant to talk about.
@@TheRedimsion genshin is also a product designed to make money (and makes more money than HSR AFAIK) and i 36* the current abyss with a 4-stars only hyperbloom team
I am playing Star rail, Zenless Zone zero and Wuthering waves right now and am thinking of dropping one because of not having enough time. Star rail is the one i enjoy the MOST out of the three be it from its story to gameplay but man the power creep really takes a lot of joy out of the game for me. I had also played Genshin for years and the power creep was very little, a lot of DPS and sub dps and support that are good but not absolutely better than anything else had released so people had time to properly save. In HSR almost everything is just better than the one came before. I literally feel obligated to pay for the monthly thing and the BP to be able to keep up
Funny thing is, HI3, the other lesser known Hoyo game does buff older characters through various means, tho they stepped away from their previous mechanic, back in the 3.0 to 5.0 era they did something calle "core augmentation" which completely changed the character, as in the entire moveset and numbers got updated, new visuals and voice lines, usually story or event related, so "molotov cherry Rozalia" turned into "fervent tempo DELTA" from a younger character with one greatsword that had a spin to win charged attack like...idk Genshin's old claymore charged attacks from Noelle to a parry based dual wield greatsword character that had heavy story implications from an alternate reality. I personally loved that, but I guess it was too time and effort consuming to do a complete overhaul, so they went on and made PRI's for older characters: PRI being a new rarity for weapons, it usually removed the sp/energy cost on weapon specific attacks and made some slight alterations to the movesets of characters. Now that every character comes with a pri(cause that's just the thing now) that ALSO fell away as a buff for characters, that was also around the 4.0 to 5.0. However they do still buff older characters by giving them NEW weapons that fill the role pri's filled back then ergo, new moves/ult finishers...better numbers. I know, it's different teams and all, but how can they not look at their sister games and see, oh, they have had various ways, to buff older characters throughout the years and not go, "yeah, maybe we should try that as well" Imagine a new LC for jingliu that changes her ultimate or enhanced skill to the attack she used against the Dog from feixiaos story.
On that note, I feel like some of this powercreep can be attributed to the genre and nature of gacha games as a whole, in long running Live service games powercreep is a given, it will always be a thing, otherwise, why would you even pull for new characters if you are content with your existing roster of characters, ESPECIALLY for games that already established their endgame and team setup. What I mean by that is, how your characters have to interact with the content provided to the player, for arknights or other more strategy based games, like, idk funnily enough fgo, the characters aren't usually made for one specific team, but a niche...or a certain game mechanic...Mostima slows, eyafjalla nukes, ho'ol levitates....and while dmg is important, doing one thing VERY well is enough to warrant thinking about a character. Ho'ol specificly got used in a DOS S3 Casterknights only clear because of her stall potential through levitating in conjuntion with mostima's slow. In HSR the characters are mainly made for specific teams with one of 3 whole roles, support, dps, healing, you have fewer elements than classes in ak and these teams are very restrictive in their needs, so a character straight up replacing another is much more likely. Especially with the game intentionally promoting damage over stall, with stalling usually getting heavy demerits in every gamemode other than the SU modes....Things like "clear in x number of turns" or "you only have x turns until you lose" which cuts away potential diverse character niches which also makes new characters predictable as well... I am bringing that up because in my eyes, Hoyo games bigger problem is a balancing issue, they usually have mostly timed content, which asks for rising amounts of dps....yet they also make their endgame accolade based, so, how well you did, instead of participation based. Because of that, you really REALLY feel when a character ages and gets replaced, because it'll impact your overall experience with the game negatively, no longer being able to 36 star any of the Abyss, memorial arena, 12 star pf or apocalyptic shadow, not being able to retain red lotus or nirvana in Superstring(hi3) it alls cuts down on your amounts of rewards in premium currency, so you can pull less for newer characters.... It's just not fun anymore if you feel forced to get all the new chars as a way to have a better chance of getting said new characters. There, my rant about hoyo games is over, I could go on and on, but that's also why I quit all of them...I log into genshin once every year for a week to do the new continent and story, and I'll do the same for hsr, I enjoy the game's stories/lore so I will only play for that and no longer engage in the other aspects of the game, have been doing that for genshin ever since sumeru and for hsr I did that from the start. Hi3 I had to quit because my devices don't like the game so I stopped after the part 1.5 finale..... AND HONESTLY, this way of playing has done a great deal in increasing the amount of enjoyment I get out of these games
@@thetcaseaway4306 Ye, that was pretty much the point of Core augments back then, kind, it ranged from character after a bit of growth like delta(she's mainly rozalia, but her sister lilya died earlier as compared to the main timeline, but since both were augmented with a certain twin honkai beasts genes they were kind of fused together, so delta can still comunicate with lilya in her mind) another interesting core augment was hawk of fog fu hua, which was one of the many persona's Fu Hua took on in her long 50k year life, she was basicly watson to Hi3's sherlock holmes.... Sadly they stopped doing them years ago by now, to this day, imo the best way of improving old chars,
@ebering4.039 yeah, because from cost standpoint, "buffing" Old characters required more investment than just straight up making new playable characters. Let's count, from the top of my head, they need to basically new characters but inline with old characters somehow. Make stories (canon or not) to "insert" The new(old) characters. They need to design the new kit and make it somehow new but also an Upgrade of the old kit (weapon, stigmata etc). If it's new Playable characters, the story and model already handled by the main team, now you just need to make NEW Characters without any restriction and reference, you can go ham with the kit because it's new, no need to consider and mix match with what any previous characters have, and most if not all is basically Canon. So yeah. Make sense.
A character in their respective gameplay stay relevant for about 2-3 patches until they release new one. Then to increase their lifespan they release another 5 star character to buff an already falling unit. But, it's not a guaranteed fix, they will release another one that is stronger and cheaper in the next 1 or 2 patch and the loop continues. This is them forcing you to pull characters you don't even want keeping an unhealthy state of powercreep. I think HSR has the worst powercreep design that gives you no room for creativity when characters are stuck in their archetypes with fixed teams that you have to complete pulling before getting powercrept.
This is the reason why I am heavily, and honestly probably will, drop this game. The fact that not just older 1.0 units are just completely abandoned now, it was the fact that earlier 2.X characters were powercrept by later 2.X characters is what really opened my eyes (Gallagher and Lingsha just to name just one). Plus the fact that the core mechanics that the game established are just completely negated and ignored now. Specifically things like type weakness, toughness, and even turn order just don't even matter anymore with units that implant weakness types and Robin breaking turn orders. One additional thing that maybe isn't really considered powercreep but is another reason I have a gripe with HSR is signature lightcones. For many characters their signature is MILES above any other option (i.e. Acheron's doing so much more damage or Sunday's making him SP positive) but their lightcones ONLY work for them. There is no such thing anymore about a 5* lightcone that can be used by multiple units. It baffles me that there are some HSR meat riders who don't think that powercreep is a huge issue with HSR and will probably kill the game
Powercreep in HSR is painful. I've managed to get by MoC mainly using Acheron/Kafka and Ruan Mei/Black Swan, but even that could barely get a 3 star some times. Pure Fiction while neat, just feels like you need certain characters built otherwise it's impossible to do. The main thing that made me quit playing HSR was primarily how grinding was required but they don't provide sufficient resources. It's always painful to grind materials for traces since you need about 100 T3s (probably higher), but every 6 runs you get about 2-3 T3s (after crafting). Same with relics, I despise stat RNG so much. It's especially painful on Planar Ornaments since they're much harder to get, and there's way less flexibility depending on which on you're going for. At least with normal relics you can always throw them on a different character, but planars are basically meant for only a certain character/typing. AK does resource grinding SIGNIFICANTLY better, I don't even remember the last time I've actually ran out of a resource currently (then again, it's been almost 5 years). I really liked playing HSR, and I'm just hoping they make the game less resource intensive or give out more resources. I really wanted to try and build some 4 stars, but it's literally impossible when you have to spend around a month's worth of fuel on each character if you want to use them. Either A: Add at least another difficulty with much higher rates (like how AK added new levels for LMD and EXP) B: Reduce the amount of T3s for traces. The grind is honestly painful. Also wished that you could at least designate what main stat you want on relics as well without having to use the crafting things. It just sucks trying to grind for an ATK% or Quantum just to end up with Healing or EHR.
The thing is, Jingliu is supposed to counter the bug boss on Floor 12? He spawns bugs every time he goes that have less HP which is why Jingliu's enhanced attack is blast, so you can focus on the big bug, kill with the splash damage, and implant the vulnerability. But HP pools have gotten so inflated you can't do that anymore, I'm over here doing an enhanced blast on a minion hoping it kills at all. Jingliu and Sunday are both at E0S1, she has a 30 CR / 240 CD set up on her new best in slot, and it took me 7 cycles to clear this guy because I don't have Robin. Probably could've gotten it down to 6 if I really tried? I'm pulling Big Herta and it feels like I'm putting Jingliu in a retirement home, which sucks because she's the first character I pulled when I started this game.
I honestly feel like power creep does the opposite of it’s intended effect for me, as a long time Genshin player I feel more incentivized to spend and pull in that game because I know I’ll be able to use any character for a long time, whereas in HSR I’m super stingy and F2P, which then makes the game less fun and more artificially hard, which makes me want to play less. It’s gotten to the point that even story fights are tedious to get through, so I have even less incentive to play.
Left the game a couples months ago and the more time passes the less likely i am to return, since my characters are gonna be powercrept to death and clearing endgame will be a dream since i won't have the new shinny toys (that will also be powercrept in like 3 versions)
Yeah the game is super hard now, I'm not even interested in playing or even the update coming soon like the enemies are too damn strong and not to mention they get more actions it seems more than your team itself like even the MOC with only lvl 60 characters against lvl 60 enemies ends up dying like how???
how they can fix this, or at least prevent current and future characters from getting powercrept: - add more endgame modes. pf is perfect. amazing for every aoe dps, easily available characters like herta and himeko. characters like argenti who are specifically made for pf are good in pf to this day - more 4*s, less 5*s. give us more gallagher and herta esque 4*s PLEASE. we do not need 2 5*s every update and we do not need them to all be good for only 4 updates - make more niche characters but don't make them insanely op, let them be VERY good in certain situations and pretty good in general situations. jing yuan's a good example with his niche being in pf. that can prevent them from powercreeping previous characters. this only applies for 5*s tho, 4*s should be universal - add more standard characters and make them good like himeko and bronya, more accessible 5* units is always good - STOP making characters do the same thing. break dpses are fine because we have a ST, blast and aoe but WTF is going on with the crit dpses and supports? - give characters normal scaling. acheron and herta have NO reason to be better against 3 enemies than blast type dpses like jingliu. blast type dpses are built for 3 enemies, they CANNOT compare against aoe dpses against 5 enemies. why powercreep them in their own niche with characters who have another niche? - add more gameplay types. we only have fua, dot, break, summon, hp manipulation (literally just blade rn) for now (im not counting crit, hp, def, aoe, blast, st, etc bc those are too universal)
We need to make the Chinese community to complain about this HP inflation, cuz Chinese community's voice have a higher chance to be heard by miHoYo than global's voic. Also, love the use of Arknights as the comparisson of endgame's powercreep
Hoyoverse didn't do anything about it because cn community doesn't complain. And they probably won't. CN and ASIA community as a whole doesn't seem to have a problem with powercreep, if you were to complain about it as an oldie, you'd most likely be clowned. Most of the low costs run (even the 1 cost Herta that I saw a few ytbers did) are all coming from bilibili
2:34 my Seele E0S1 + Sunday E0S1 + Sparkle E0S1 + Fu Xuan E0S1 got 4 cycles on the swarm, the swarm is still a good matchup for Seele IF you can kill the insects to regenerate her ult faster. But the previous Svarog was at best 6 cycles and Hoolay (with mono quantum) took me 9 cycles (needed SW to proc the MOC buff and almost dying at the end). I'm fine with taking 4-5 cycles to finish but i'm afraid that the HP inflation will make even good matchup's not be enough for 5 cycles.
It's almost like the content is what makes characters stronger/weaker, it's no surprise that quantum resistant enemies (svarog, hoolay and all of their elites) are hard for her, though 9 cycles is kind sad. I do have 2 eidolons but my mono quantum cleared Hoolay in 1 cycle. You cleared the current swarm MoC in 4 cycles and that's with ONLY the boss being quantum weak, imagine what would happen if all enemies were quantum weak. Powercreep has always been in the content/enemies, not the characters.
@@hashgulso_osu for the last 9-10 months this is the first MoC with a quantum weak enemy and it's just the boss itself not the elites as well, so yes everything until now was quantum resistant. And like I said I have 2 eidolons on my Sparkle and LCs, so it's much easier, but without eidolons it should still be a 5 cycle clear at worst unless the builds of the characters are bad. And no, @Sam_Hue mono quantum means fu xuan as well so not sustainless, I do have a pretty good Seele build (although a bit weird since I use atk % body piece and SSS relic set) so I do quite a bit of dmg even with sustain.
This is why at launch, I think that it's STUPID that many CC Praise HSR turn based game as "casual friendly" Or "very simple" And other shit. This is why they should've been going the classic turn based strategy game instead. The way they can POWERCREEP the game is using this shitty way, because their Features is very limited. Just watch FGO for f sake, they are that old and to this day, the OG saber is STILL a viable characters. Their POWERCREEP-ing is more diverse and many Feature they can tweak. Honestly, feels vindicated and I can say "I told you so" LOL. Also, PLEASE compare ORANGE with ORANGE! don't bring APPLES to the comparison. Compare HSR to other Turn based Gacha, not Wuwa, Genshin, Arknight, or other bullshit.
😂 They cannot compare with Fgo because they never play it to begin with because they thinks that any gacha that make lower revenues than hoyo games aren't worth the try or mostly just new to gacha games and acts like veterans in gacha games
@@buzzduelI've been playing gachas for years, way before genshin existed lil bro. And I even just recently got into fgo, but sure, talk your shit like you know anything about me💀
Since HSR is a turn-based game, I can compare it to the gacha I played before switching to Hoyo games, which was Dokkan Battle Dokkan is now 10 years old, and the powercreep is absolutely insane, units now deal upwards of 20+ million dmg with close to (if not more than) 1 million defense, On top of that, defensive mechanics that used to be very niche and unique to a few god-tier defensive units like guard (which basically halves incoming dmg to put it simply), general dmg reduction and dodging, are now almost the norm, because the dmg inflation from endgame content is so absurd that you NEED them to simply survive - new character who don't have them are dead on release, literally. To put things into perspective, I started playing around the 4th anniversary I believe, so, close to half the current lifespan of the game, and defensive juggernauts had like, a 100K def OR some strong defensive mechanic - not both, and certainly not a combination of several defensive mechanics. And damage figures where maybe 5% of what they are now if I'm being very generous. So yeah, extreme powercreep to say the least But it wasn't always like that. When I quit around two years ago, this trend had started only kinda recently, maybe a year or so. Before that, there was powercreep yes, but it was slow and steady, slow enough that "good" units remained good at the very least an entire year, if not two. The most broken (at the time) defensive units could easily remain god-tier 3+ years, and even when they weren't god-tier anymore, they could still stay relevant for a while. And because, as opposed to hoyo games, Dokkan often gives out direct buffs to old units by awakening them which basically updates their passive and base stats, some units even made incredible come-backs, becoming meta again for a while - usually by evening the playing field with current units. Say an old character could be meta by having guard and nothing else in the very old days of the game, well after some time it wasn't enough anymore, so they gave them additional def%, or a defense stacking mechanic, or let's say a little bit of dmg reduction. That + the base stat increase was usually enough to make old characters relevant again, or even meta. As time went on, awakenings became really important to the game's balance, to where the community tried to envision what an awakened character's kit could look like in the future. The kind of buff units could get also evolved. It used to be that a unit would basically get bigger number, which would simply make them better at what they were doing, which was already a good thing. But over time, more stuff started to be added in these buffs, for instance an offensive character could get nice defensive utility and vice-versa, or, units that had a bare-bones kit could get mechanics they completely lacked beforehand, like being able to stun enemies, to dodge, to buff the team, etc Obviously the current state of powercreep makes this somewhat irrelevant. A unit that just got buffed can get powercrept immediately - or not even be able to keep up at all despite the buff. But it used to be that, in conjuction with a slower powercreep, this way of steadily buffing old characters (and not just once - a character can get several awakenings over time) kept the game fairly engaging despite its lack of depth in terms of gameplay I believe HSR should either 1) drastically slow down powercreep or 2) directly buff old units over time. It could be done in so many ways, too ! They could : - let you level them up over the current limit of 80, let's say to level 90 or higher, which would provide a nice increase in terms or raw base stats - add one (or more) new passive(s) - update existing passives - increase scalings - update the traces tree - add a secondary traces tree - update eidolons (not my fav option here, but it could at least be nice for standard characters since you can potentially get a bunch of cons of them over time) - lastly, they could put old characters on a limited banner but with a discount depending on how old they are ; this way, you can get let's say two or three copies for the "price" of one, which effectively means that now, e0 of the shiny new 5* costs as much as e1 or e2 of an older 5* when they are on the banner at the same time. Not exactly my fav option either, but in the presence of rampant powercreep, it seems fair that "obsolete" characters should cost less than up-to-date ones. Let's say I'm going to pull Silver Wolf on her rerun, well, it kinda hurts that 1 copy of her costs the same amount of pulls/money as Robin, for instance. The same is true of pulling *insert obsolete dps* when *insert new meta dps* is on the banner at the same time, etc
Ofc I feel bad about powercreep. Only whales are fine with it which is l;ike 0.01% of players. Rest are sacrificed. My e6 Clara is by fact worse than e0 Yunli. Jiaoqiu and Guinaifen also VERY similar. But in this case atleast Gui isnt 5*.
Having bosses that change elemental weakness would easily be counterable though. It would just force you to use Firefly or Silver Wolf. But yeah I'm so sick of this HP bloat nonsense and I don't want to have to pull for characters I don't like just to keep up.
Idk why they don't just put in something that is a resource to just increase multipliers, and older units can use more of it. That way, the older units can have multipliers on the same level as the new units. They'll still be weaker because their mechanics aren't tailored to the current meta, but they won't be in such a dogwater state where even their baseline is just worse. Instead, it's more inoptimized than straight up inferior.
Bro seele is a fuking monster if she got higher multiplier (if enemy can summon ofc), the reason why she's bad now is because her multiplier is ass and she can't oneshot trash mob
Yeah it makes me pretty sad. People say that they do buff characters, that Jing Yuan is meta again...but he's still worse than Acheron, and let's not forget that Aglea is Lightning. Her MoC is gonna be a 8 cycle clear for him, at the very least. Meanwhile in Arknights I didn't even know that Siege is bad and powercrept for about a year of playing, and even then I still use her sometimes and it doesn't feel utterly hopeless.
HI3 made the smart choice with its brutal powercreep, by making older characters increasingly easy to max the ranks of through F2P purchases or event drops.
I miss contingency contract in arknights cuz it was a way to test not only how strong your account was but how much knowledge you've obtained since playing/the last cc. It's why i hate hsr,'s approach which is the sell a character. (Also trials for navigator too, it's such a cool way to showcase how far I've came along)
Yeah, it's just getting stupid, my maxed E3S1 Acheron cannot clear half the new bosses because she either doesn't weakness break fast enough, doesn't do enough single target DMG or FU Xuan just can't sustain 5 cycles anymore with how much DMG increased as well. I stopped spending money months ago, hoyo just doesn't care about their games like other gacha games do.
As someone who plays around once every 6 months, it's not just endgame content. Penacony is a huge step up in terms of power compared to all the other regions and unless you pulled for Acheron, black swan or aventurine or you had good 1.0 5 stars it was really hard. Either you had to grind out artefacts, get lucky with the boss attacks or pull the newest 5 star character, the game is so hard to beat with only 4 stars / no 5 star dps charactres.
I'm glad that the games I like most aren't going this path Genshin literally has lateral power creep, maybe they release a stonks character and suddenly a dozen old characters get buffed. They release Xilonen who does almost the same as Kazuha, but the game requires 2 teams, so 2 Kazuhas is good. In 4 years of runtime, only Ayato and Albedo got legit outclassed, everyone else is still very decent and even these 2 characters who got power crept, are still useful in the Theater mode. I love that they'll just slap some random "feeblecreep" character like Emilie that I can literally go and get because I think she's super cute, not because she's any relevant As for Zenless, it's still a very young game, idk how they'll work with this game yet. The obvious direction is to add enemies who are more resistant to anomaly build up so that regular attack characters can have their turn at being decent, maybe add some enemies that are too resistant to damage while not stunned so that they reward the player for using stun characters, maybe some enemies that are harder to deal with without a shield, add more shielders, this game is still very young and has space to grow, but they'll need to add new mechanics soon to keep it interesting
Everyone praising the game non stop for almost two years and backlashing anyone who gave a minimal criticism helped the game come this far. Anyway, I stopped after getting Fugue, this game does not respect the time and money of the players. Funny how, in active days I'm stopping with a smaller amount than what it took me to be AR60 in Genshin, a game where I could clear a recent abyss with 1.0 characters and where 1.3 DPS are still meta relevant in 5.3. If you are tired of the powercreep, quit playing too (no need to be permanently) because that's basically the only way Mihoyo will ever care.
HSR was powercreeped even at launch by Seelah herself. I play Arknights because I found that very often new content makes old characters more viable not less because of mechanics that require certain operators to beat. Especially in IS it doesn't matter if you have Wisadel or Logos, there are bosses that don't care about pure damage, instead you'll need stuff like Slow or Sleep etc. Hoyo games in general have awful end game modes and tedious gacha that requires much more money to feel impactful.
HSR does have one major problem, that contributes to the powercreep: It is turnbased, with no movement/deployment, only 4 characters per team and 3 abilities per character, if you are generous. Due to that you don't have many levers to increase a characters power. You can only really increase dmg/hp , because otherwise you will break its turn based system due to cc&buff stacking.
Genshin might have its issues but one think it has going for it and no matter what you can ALWAYS best the story and do endgame with 1.X characters. Yes even this 5.2 abyss(I've seen ppl do it with 1.X characters and 4* only. Trust me it's doable). After 4 years characters like Bennett are still being recommended in Mavuika treams. I played HSR when it first dropped and stopped around 1.3 cause burn out. I tried to get back into it a few patches later and god it felt so bad. Not just cause I'm a casual who doesn't have decent builds but like even the story is so ass power wise. I'm f2p so I can't just pull every new character out. I have to do with what I got or wait and by then I might not be into it anymore. I keep telling friends who play HSR it's powercreep is bad as someone who doesn't play anymore but they kinda say it's only Seele. She's just the start? That's like saying "Xiao can't clear abyss anymore". Xiao was crazy af when he came out and thanks to characters like Xianyun and Faruzan he's actually a lot better not but even without them he is usable. Saying Seele can't clear anymore means that one day Fangxiao can't clear anymore and so on. HSR fandom needs to lock in
I feel like MOC 12 is pretty much a trap for spenders. Hoyo is the dealer on MOC who keeps upping the buy in. That’s the life of DPS they’re great for the first 3 patches they get pushed aside for the new and with in 1 year they’re nostalgic.
Even Ak has issues with powercreep. Yet they still manage to find a balance. Hoyo started their powercreep issues with Genshin. If we look at their bigger gacha games. Idk about ZZZ. But I have heard many complain that powercreep in Star Rail is a very big issue. But yeah. Inflating stats is one lazy way Hoyo fixes end-game. It just sucks. They should be more creative and stop accelerating powercreep so much especially in Star Rail.
80 crystals are not worth it - what about my time? what about my pulls? I pulled for the characters, spent many weeks grinding for recourses to build and get good artifacts FOR THEM to be less and less efficient to the point where even with new harmonies they barely do 5 cycles.
The jingliu floor 12 might be a skill issue tbh, I cleared with mine in 3 cycles, jingliu is e0s1, same for sunday and then huohuo and rm are at e0s0, so 3/4 of the team is 1.x with sunday just being a bronya improvement. So yeah powercreep is a problem, but also as we saw with jing yuan, a simple support can bring back a dead character.
@@Kicksrockskidslike every other character in the game? Firefly with Fugue Ruan Mei HMC. Acheron with Jiaoqiu Robin or Sunday. Feixiao Premium team? Literally no DPS can do good results in this new MoC without having eidolons or supports
@@Kicksrockskidswell no shet, noone is op without their dedicated supports, yk. And seele doing her job with the harmonies is still impressive. Heck, even qq is awsome with all the buffs she can get now.
@@johnd7760 And there is no issue with that. The problem is you hear those saying you don't need latest units, proceeds to use 1.x dps,but then add Sunday or Fugue.
Surprised I haven't seen anyone mention FGO. Something I really enjoy is that they do do "Interlude" and "Rank Up" Quests. Which is essentially a quick typically easy level you clear for the sole purpose of upgrading something about them. An existing skill typically but also sometimes their Noble Phantasm (Their Ultimate). And these changes can do anything from just be a nice little increase in numbers value to new additional effects that outright change how they can play the game. Let them have insane new synergies with other characters. I've seen characters be skyrocketed from the bottom of the tier list to the near top solely based off one little change to their kit. Now FGO is not perfect by any means but at least that IS something I like about it. At any moment I'm not paying attention a Unit that has been gathering dust in my box can suddenly get a buff that makes them viable again. Oh, and the Grail System lets you just forcibly level up a Unit past their cap so you do have a solution if sheer Attack Stat is a problem. But that is a limited resource keep in mind. So yeah. If they added such a system to HSR...that'd be amazing. They could just have sidequests that just overwrite and buff existing traces so they wouldn't even have to change the constellation skill tree. PS: I've delt with the powercreep in HSR with what I learned in FGO. A good Attacker is a good Attacker, but a good Support can make multiple Attackers into good Attackers. So I just prioritize headhunting those. Mainly the Harmony ones.
as an e0s1 seele and jingliu haver this video is diabolical for me lmao i can't clear the new moc with them at all and like their stats aren't even bad imo it's so frustrating, ik everything is optional in this gacha game but still it doesn't feel good :(
I agree. Honestly as much as I love the game it's why I actually stopped playing regularly. Power creep is fine but when 5 stars are barely lasting even 2 patches that's a problem. I don't mind spending on a game I enjoy but I'm not going to whale to keep up. I'm only going to be playing when new story gets added.
Arknights is a 5 year old game and can still say release day units like hoshiguma, ptilopsis and eyja are viable in endgame contents. For hsr. i agree with the last part of the vid, i think its cause of the core gameplay itself needs to be revamped otherwise its going the genshin route. But ehh hoyos just gonna release another game anyway and the cycle will just continue
This definitely needs change, my Firefly team clears anything, I can just choose this team whatever the enemy, while 6 stars with the correct element struggle.
I mean HSR has a way of retro-buffing Niece units through giving us new Supports/DPS/Sustains for certain niece's and sets, but yeah more enemy veriety would help. As a big fan of HSR i gotta say the way powercreep is handled is kinda bad, but I hope that they turn it down and just go with different playable nieces instead of raw number creep in the forseeable future.
Fellow F2P jingliu main here. Clearing Moc12 with her using hyper carry. Oh my god that was BRUTAL. I used firefly for the first wave with 2 cycles cleared. Jingliu took a total of 8 CYCLES. 8! I was running a fully hyper carry team for her which was Jingliu, Bronya, Sparkle, and Huohuo. Only things to note was I got lucky on my Jingliu pulls getting her at e1s1 and Bronya well she's e3s1. BUT still. It honestly felt like the swarm boss for moc 12 was designed for Madam Herta when she drops. The powercreep is really absurd just to what. incentivize people to spend more money or f2p jades to just get another 80 or 160 jades if you can't clear moc 11/12. Zeto's play through with his original no pulling account demonstrates the absurdity of power creep in HSR.
Heck even making it so seele's extra attacks count as follow up attacks can help her as she gets buffed from other characters in new ways. Can make it so silver wolfs ult is aoe, give jingliu superbreak on her enhanced skill, make blade trigger stacks on hit/dots so he used his talent more even on dots or shields, etc. Just add newer mechanics to old characters so they are keeping up with the new characters
Giving Jingliu superbreak doesnt make sense. I prefer a straight up Multiplier buff and making her "100% Action Advance" an Extra turn ala Seele/Rappa, so buffs dont run out before she vould even enter her enhanced state
@MrcreeperDXD777 she already gets action advance in her enchanced state doesnt she? Only other thing besides superbreak is follow up attack which doesnt really makes sense for jingliu. I was comparing her with firefly(destruction) so thought of superbreak. It could just only be weakness pierce instead but if shes getting that might as well get superbreak as well
@@zod3632 she does, but an action advance and an extra turn is different. An action advance would use up a turn of buffs, while an extra turn doesn't. If Jingliu was given an extra turn instead of an action advance, she'd be able to keep the Bronya/Sparkle buffs instead of losing them after getting to her enhanced state
Looking back at HSR's official UA-cam page, I noticed something: from 1.1 to 2.1, each patch had two five-stars accompanied by one four-star, however, they stopped doing this pattern once 2.2 rolled around (Robin/Boothill). I feel as though that patch (2.2) was when powercreep started to show its cracks, as five-stars began to vastly overtake four-stars, making the former more integral to gameplay. It also didn't help that 2.2 practically hard-locked the game into a Superbreak meta for the remainder of the version, with some exceptions (e.g. Jade, Yunli, Feixiao). Honestly, HSR needs to do two things: (1) introduce more universal four-stars to give some five-stars "breathing room"; and (2) have at least two gameplay archetypes per version (i.e. 3.0-3.X having units that focus on Summons and DOTS).
Even as a casual story and waifu only player, I was trembling when I first realized how much more predatory HSR compared to other games. It's not even funny. And yet, there are still people who defend this BS. Moreover, blaming players for not pulling smartly. 😤
Idk why Hoyoverse rarely ever does buffs to characters. Seems weird especially because it seems like an easy way to get people to spend money on a banner for an old character.
Let's take Robin as one example: I have a lot of use for her, but I don't even dare to pull her, because by now I don't know what 3.x will bring. If I could be sure that a character would seriously last another year or so then I might pull on a third run, but the way HSR is progressing rn, I fear I might only waste my precious jades that I want to use on a character I actually enjoy. Robin is just not that to me. So, I stick to my old chars and build them instead. Screw the endgame, I'm not interested anymore. I go as far as my chars take me and that's it. I want to have fun playing this game, not force myself to keep up with the whales.
Never heard of arkknights's module mechanic to buff old characters btw, but i want to mention hoyo old game, honkai impact 3, specifically part 1 because i dropped it before part 2. They also did this technically but it's with new signature weapons that are hyper specialised to the character. The problems are 1) those new signatures are gacha. 2) hi3 combat wants like 1 dps for each type+element. So said old character that is buffed, is the only intended option from mihoyoverse, and by the time we get another dps of the same type and element coverage, it'll be so long that it's direct powercreep time. So the system became another monetization scheme. 3) yes you can cope with different type dps, especial if they're the newest op one, but hi3 uses a leaderboard system for 2/3 of endgame content.... so you're competing with people who gacha. They even had a 2nd system that was to buff old characters which is crafting a buff version of their signature weapons, and yes it's almost completely free, just a grind. But.... every new dps signature was made with a buffed weapon to craft, which became the base line, which means the system just became a way to grind rather than buff old characters. I can only think of 1 example from part 1 hi3, that was released without a pri arm (the buff weapon) and later added to actually buff her. Basically what I'm saying is star rail can implement whatever new system they want, but it won't do the game any good if a hi3 part 1 occurs. And it's from the same developers.....
I Think Super Break Disturb The Balance In HSR, When Firefly Release She Just One Shot Every Enemy in The Game Literally Every Enemy, Now Rappa Lingsha And Fugue Are Doing This Even Faster, To Avoid The One Shot They Started To Increase The HP, And Releasing 2 New Powerful Character Every Patch Making The HP Inflation Even Worse For Older Character
I constantly use the example of fgo mostly because I've been playing for 5 years on na but they do powercreep well. its a game all about farming as effeciently as possible but rarely do you need a new unit for it. As long as you have one of the 4 meta 5 star supports you can farm easily with whoever you want. for example with buster you can easily use saber artoria who's a year 1 servant thats in the standard pool, but shes been buffed so much and does so much damage that she can easily compete with other aoe buster sabers despite her age. where as hoyo refuses to ever buff old characters.
genshin got away with very little powercreep for years because characters feel so different to play that they can be worth pulling just for fun much harder to do this with HSR combat system
As you have said, One of the biggest misfortune is to have old units that new players won't want to pull anymore because there are new units much stronger than them. If Kafka got a rerun and somebody who started the game in 2.0 really liked Kafka, They would be dumb to pull her considering the 2.x meta. So a player is kind of torn between choosing to play meta or their favorite units And that's bad. To make those old units so much weaker and borderline unavailable. Because if someone who started in 2.x wanted to clear with Kafka they had to invest much more into her to be on par with the concurrent dps standards
The powercreep in HSR has gotten so bad to the point older units need to be directly buffed or else Hoyo would just end up killing the game at this rate. Characters should not be considered useless within a year or less.
I've been getting frustrated with the choices being made in HSR, and I'm pretty much at the verge of just giving up at this point. I've been saving up for quite a while now because I like the idea of The Herta and I thought it'd be neat to build a new kind of team around her. But I'm also not a fan of pulling dupes. Every dupe is basically another entire character I could have gotten. The Herta though? e2 can be a 108% damage increase over E0 for doing the same thing. She literally power creeps herself. If I pull her, then the best thing I could do for any team I want to build around her would be to e2 her. There's no other character that's going to do more than just taking my main DPS and doubling her damage for basically nothing but meta-currency. The entire situation just makes me not want to pull her at all now. How do they even balance the power level of Erudition teams when something like that exists? I don't feel like they even care about that. For the difficulty just being done through stat inflation, they can't make situations require substantially different strategies because they make the effort in building characters absolutely ridiculous, let alone making you try to build teams that practically require specific characters to be viable. Grinding relics is puling teeth - nobody wants to do it to gear up older weaker characters. It's the same resource as you need to optimize your main teams, and you almost always could just farm for better rolls on your good characters instead. Even slight upgrades to your main team is going to do more for you than spending weeks farming up a character you have no plan to use. There are so many damn relic sets that you almost always end up needing to fully farm an entirely new set for each character anyways.
I have E0S1 Seele and even with E0S1 Sunday + E2S1 Sparkle and E1S1 Fuxuan she just sucks so much in MoC that it isn't even worth using her... feels bad ngl
Reminds me of when I found my favorite HSR character, DHIL, rolled for his E2, applying my experience from a certain other HoYo game where nearly every character is able to clear endgame 4 years after their release and thinking I'd be set for a few years. Was able to use him for a few months before HoYo started shilling other archetypes. Rolled Sparkle (and missed Robin because of it lol) because I thought they'd shill SP-heavy archetype again, but nah, she promptly got put on the shelf to collect dust alongside DHIL. During the entirety of 2.x, I was maybe able to use them twice, plus once in the current MoC12, which seems MADE for DHIL... but... I barely cleared within 4 cycles. Against the enemies that were introduced alongside DHIL (Swarm boss) to make him feel powerful back in the day. With his E2 and nigh-perfect relics. Only a little over a year since he was released. Granted, Sunday didn't have great relics yet since I've only been non-stop farming them for one entire patch (*COUGH*), but it's ridiculous regardless. I didn't like most 2.x characters, except Aventurine (... who is bugged), but felt forced to pull and use them to keep up, instead of characters I actually liked. Some degree of powercreep is inevitable, but with how fast HSR's powercreep is, you can barely enjoy a new DPS before they become irrelevant. Sustains have it a bit easier because enemy attack power hasn't increased as heavily as enemy HP, so you can still use Luocha or HuoHuo and be fine, but it still sucks when "the star of the show" can only shine for a few months.
Idk why people's argument is always like "you don't always need to clear in 0 cycles just enjoy the game". Bruh if some teams cleared in 4 or 5 cycles already then next 2 patches they're going to clear in 6 or 7. 3.X is coming and look at those numbers, jeez can you look ahead with this rate of powercreep. 7-8 cycle clear would be perfectly fine if that is stable from 1.6 to 2.7, nobody gives that much damn about 0 cycling unless very few select people.
What people also forget to address is right now yeah you can clear 5 cycles and whatever but what about in 6 months if it keeps this way it will be 8 cycles with 1 team. Also i want someone clearing with a full 4 star team you can't see any where in other gachas you can do it FGO for example.
Why don't we have element/path resonance buffs or something like that seriously. It would make mono quantum/imaginary/ice viable, 2-2 comps would be creative blah blah
Yeah, I am not buying into any new mechanics HSR introduces, the upcoming summoning system can frick off, In penacony we have literally gone through 4 major mechanics, like wtf, We started 2.X off with Destruction dual carry being meta, then DoT was meta, then FUA was meta and now Super Break is meta, and the moment 3.0 launches, it'll be obsolete like everything before it. And all MHY will do is artificially pump up enemy HP pools and give new characters bigger multipliers. This crap HAS to stop, it's predatory af! In hindsight, MHY has done this with every single one of their games, I played GGZ a long time ago, it's also known as HG2, then I played HI3, and then Genshin and now HSR, they have literally done this in every game they've released, it's the whole reason I decided not to even bother with ZZZ, because I know that if I built up all of the"meta" 1.X banner characters now, they will all be made useless in 2.X because of HP bloat, new mechanics, new and better relic sets which will only work for the newer characters, etc.
So something to keep in mind. If people want to use older characters, yes. They will have to invest in them. Sorry, but E0S0 Seele with no upgrades to support isn't gonna 0 cycle anymore. It is what it is. But people prove all the time without spending a dime that yes, you can beat hardest content with older characters. And a huge way to do so is improve your supports. Hell, people cleared APS4 with freaking Serval and even Welt. How? E1 Robin. That is it. If people want comfort? Pick up the shiny new toy of the month and click auto battle. Anyways, what happened here was the inflation got high because they gave us a busted f2p option: HMC. So if someone plays a break team, historically they will be just fine. Where they screwed up though, was barely upgrading any other archetype. Hyper carry, DOT, FUA was late, etc. So it kinda made players feel restricted in what they could play. Not good. This is why I assume they made the new remembrance TB the way they did. Seems to work with basically everyone, not just summons. So yeah, as a result we should be fine. But again, if you want to use an older character, invest in the supports and/or upgrade the dps in question. Hell Jing Yuan was mid and not great, but thanks to Sunday he is fantastic now. Even Jingliu performed great this last MOC thanks to the enemy having ice weakness, and of course supports like Sunday or Robin help. That is how you do it. They wont buff old characters: that is what Sig and Eidolons are for. So if you really love a character from like a year ago? Invest in them. And no, you dont gotta spend a dime. Just be smart and be patient. Thats how I do it, and I beat end game all the time as f2p. Just offering perspective to anyone that struggles.
As somebody who started playing Honkai during version 2.0, I'm down for the powercreep because I don't feel like I missed out on the powerful units that came before. Since most of them were powercreeped out of viability, I did not feel pressured into rolling for anything other than a few select units like Ruin Mei or Fu Xuan, so I mostly rolled the new characters.
Powercreep in a vacuum is kind of necessary for gacha games for that reason, the problem is not the existence of powercreep in HSR but the speed at which decided to make it increase. At this pace new players will feel ok and old players feel they basically wasted most of their pulls on characters that are barely functional if they're not with other 3 meta units, and the problem is that when you'll play for longer you'll become an old player and start to feel like that too.
That's understandable I hear ya, but my point is that you wouldn't really feel that way, if the content wasn't getting artificially inflated to push them out of usability. In 2 years time, why would they ever re run a character like seele, and who would even pull her? This isn't an issue everyone cares about persay, but I think it sucks nonetheless.
Say what you guys wabna say about genshin but they handle powercreep good Like what it took then luke 3 years to pwoercreep hu tao and hu tao is still good
How do you feel about the powercreep problem in HSR?
Angry :( with torch wood. How can hsr be more terrible at balancing than cookie run kingdom
I don't play any gacha's but arknights, I just like listening lol
@@SmtYet Ok that is a stretch. Current Hsr powercreep cannot be compared to cookie run kingdom. That game is the definition of powercreep. Hsr need 8 more firefly to be at the same level as that game
@@baconisgod13 i appreciate the support
@Jarediann any time friend keep up the good work!
My problems with HSR:
1. two five stars at every patch from the beginning are not necessary
2. jumping from Jingliu to Acheron in a few weeks makes no sense
3. the number of four stars compared to five stars
1. They make money of people pulling for waifus. As long as every waifu pops out, they will swipe and pull.
2. Jingliu to Acheron was about over half a year.
3. 4 stars are just trash after 1 year. Don't even bother.
Mihoyo revenue is based on gacha addicted players who pull for waifus. They know this and they will continue to put up characters as fast as possible.
@@animeweng we know....? and we don't like this.
Two new 5 stars is all right since hsr has nothing to offer besides combat content and you get bored with repetitive activities. Then how does “jumping” make no sense? The game content is build around combat we need more dps diversit. What does not make sense is how acheron is became mid dps in the end of penacony and it will happen with every dps because of hp inflation. 4 stars in this kind of game will be always worse then their 5 star alternative and it is harder to obtain so although you are right about the number of 4 stars, but their quality is not gonna be good and useful in a long run, they just exist to try out new mechanics thats it. So there is almost no point to release new 4 star every patch.
I also see that people who more “lucky” with their pulls are more than happy to have two 5 stars every path then people how cant get shit. But it is alright statistic will make its magic and unlucky become lucky.
Hsr is just trying out different path of monetising the game so they push you to invest more in chars then actually needed so if you are willing to stay f2p you will need to spent more time farming and retrying. Or you can pay and save your time.
2:00 This is what no one seems to understand or properly bring up when it comes to the powercreep topic in HSR. We have only had 1 solid year of this game yet we look like we’re in year 3 of power difference
i always put genshin as comparison and it seems hoyo is fully capable of balancing the game throughout the years, just look at hu tao who was 1.x characters and yet still fully capable of clearing current endgame and still comparable tu current pyro dps like arlecchino albeit a bit worse
Seele a 1.0.dps is literally the faster character this moc in china lol
PRINNY
@@chelo136 that data is not e0s0. Just like last time, seele is faster but guess what, the team is E6 Seele, E2 Sunday, E2 Robin. So your argument is invalid lol
@safwanYT yeah because only old units can use eidolons .... Lol old units eidolons are weaker by far , to the point is always worth it to pull for support eidolons over the dps ones .
What about the rest of old units compiting with new ones lol , bronya eidolons too strong that Make her beat them Robin , sunday etc
Keep coping with your biased narrative , numbers don't lie
one of the reason why Hoyoverse never bothers trying to address these issues is because of the bootlickers in the community.
And p2w ppl too
No offense to them but Chinese players too, they are willing to eat up another powercreeping waifu slop
@@BiBiren oh id “YES offence” like what is it with asian gacha players mentality what they are alright with that? Its feels like it just the cultural and political and educational problem - western players are addressing the problem and trying to communicate and leaving the game but asians be like “challenge excepted more money for my wifu and more hours of grinding for best relics” seems like they genuinely enjoying being fuck for their own money
I said on Reddit that Hoyo should make actually hard content in HSR rather than stupid HP sponges. I got yelled at for it.
back when it was blade IL and jingliu there was a solid argument for how each did their damage and it was a genuine tradeoff, so the powercreep discussion had a meaningful back and forth discussion. Nowadays there's so much healthbar bloat and obnoxious powercreep that 100k damage isn't even enough to clear out the fodder in MoC12
arknights release 6 star WAlter* Kyo: aight lets do this stage with melantha (3star)
Quickly now, immediately wait.
that one mofo that use only level one operators.
activate skill...
...
...
...
now
true we love kyo xd
Eko: Okay, start with your Vanilla Ice cream...
I can't beat bug boss on floor 12 with Jingliu, who is my favorite character. Once I got Rappa I 2 cycled it. You can't say skill issue cause I'm the same guy using both characters. The whole game is just about weakness break.
It's supposed to be like that from the start, but hoyo as genius as they are, need 1 year before we can actually capitalize on that in form of of course "new mechanic and characters". Because before superbreak there's no much difference between broken enemy or not, they die before they even got weakness break
Yeah that's the just the meta rn, in 3.0 it prolly gonna be summons and break gonna fall off.
Got eidolons, robin and sunday or did you invest nothing for the past year and a half
Also no, the whole game isn't about weakness break. You sound like a league of legends player. The games hardest and most rewarding mechanic is proper speed tuning. You can 100% clear with jingliu, go look videos. It boils down to either no eidolons, no skill, and bad hoyo balance. But not just hoyo's fault
it's either skill issue or low investment. i finished swarm in 2 cycles with jingliu, no eidolons. sunday E0S1, robin E0S0 and huohuo E0S0 and it was very simple
Hsr should learn from reverse 1999 where they buff their old characters so u really dont have to pull meta
They wont, they are gonna sell you new char to fix old character problem while the new get even more buffed
@@shutup1037 honestly as long as the old character in question actually becomes good i don't mind because team building is a core mechanic in any combat system. if it's a miniscule universal buff, then i have a problem
or nikke, or literally any other game that has a system like this because they UNDERSTAND that sometimes people want to use older units
@@shutup1037 as much as I don't want this to happen and I don't have Sparkle, Sunday was a holy obvious evidence to this.
@@shutup1037 and that's sad because most of the old characters are fan favorite like blade and jingliu, and buffing them would have made them A LOT of money as people would finally feel safe getting them. The crap they tried with yunli failed as they basically made a fixed version of Clara and no one cared
and the fact that there are less 4 * characters in this game like almost every team that like work are full of 5 * and the new characters that are teased all of them are 5* i think ?? like when was the last time a 4* character was realeased?? this is why are we are getting 8 banners in 1 patch..!
5* become the norm, 4* except couple not even worth to use
+ there are still no 4* rememberence character that is teased. like how u gonna realease a new path without an 4*
@@MrEmressmr.Reca would probably be 4*. You'll get one 4* remembrance I guess
If you're still wondering, the last 4-star character released was Moze in 2.5. Before him was Hunt March 7th (2.4) and Gallagher (2.1).
There really is a concerning lack of 4-stars.
I quit around Boothill. The whole needing S1 minimum to have a tolerable time in endgame without stupid lucky stats on gear was already annoying me. But when I got JingLiu on her rerun and she was already just "okay" instead of as good as she was originally I just completely checked out.
Genshin could never. And honestly, thank god.
I understand that comparing a turn based rpg to an open world game isn’t the best comparison but like, one thing I think Genshin gets right is that while Genshin’s postgame is definitely easy a lot of the time, I’m able to keep playing with characters I built four years ago and I prefer that a lot over building a character only for it to be borderline useless in an update or two.
HSR already does a lot of things that I think are improvements over what Genshin does, but it REALLY needs to take a leaf out of Genshin’s book in that regard. I understand again that this isn’t the best comparison to make but I really wanna see the HSR team figure it out, because other Hoyo games seemingly have. I hope ZZZ doesn’t fall into the same trap considering its similarities in postgame.
Seriously, I've always said that HSR has the absolute worst powercreep out of Hoyo's games
Comparing HSR to genshin pointless because all other hoyo games are action combat you can clear every content with any team comp you want because player skill will simply fill all the gaps of underpowered units bring. Meanwhile HSR is like a chess if you don't have the right pieces you simply cannot do anything.
I do believe HSR powercreep is also bad but comparing it to genshin is missing the point of the problem. Genshin powercreep also quite bad but the don't drop 2 units a patch so its progression half the speed.
@@w4hammer not really, you're not going to have enough damage to clear abyss chambers in time if you're using a jank team or underbuilt characters
but genshin's endgame is intentionally tuned at a low DPS check so that even the underpowered dps can clear without needing constelations or signature weapons
@@Whutever42 Never played HI3 I see?
@@w4hammer
You’re absolutely right that it’s not a very good comparison to make, I’ve made that very clear myself, but I only really do so because both are games by the same company and both have very similar structures in the way you build characters and overall approach the game. It may be a very difficult thing to do considering the difference in game but if the HSR team could figure out what could be done to have similar success to Genshin and see what worked in that regard and how they could translate it, it’d be awesome for everyone.
What surprised me the most is Acheron falling off first, she would one shot firefly lorewise but now she is considered tier 0.5
Arknights is a good gacha game, and it makes us used to it when it is an exception, the way they keep the game fresh is making new events with new mechanics so we need to 'learn' the game over, even if the enemies are stronger than before the mechanics in the event are aimed to make them weaker or the mechanic itself is the challenge with a few exceptions, most games don't do the same for the only reason on how hard is to come up with so many different mechanics every time, but i yapped a lot already, in resume AK just keep fresh and new cus of events with new mechanics.
@leonardooliveira8016 honestly that's why I keep coming back to arknights every new event I still have to think about what I'm doing even if I have a team of really op operators.
AK is a very good example of how to deal with powercreep. We have "broken" units like Wisadel, yet you can clear everything without her. There's no need for gacha games to scale the game's difficulty to the strongest characters currently in game, because it fails to take into account people who don't own said broken units. But of course that wouldn't make them more money lol
@@monochrome4937 Also copies are basically solely to show if you really like a character, dupes do next to nothing
Best TD game 💪
I think it's just because Arknight is inherently has more room to explore. TD game just have so much potential to expand but turn base game is really hard because it's either time limit that will result in unavoidable damage or enemies have bunch of gimmicks that just can be brute force by pure DPS.
the pain of being a jingliu player is all too real
i mean sunday made her pretty insane against this moc if you have his cone, even if you dont you can probably still 4 or 5 cycle it
@@i_lunarr bro him with his cone makes almost everyone incredible 😂
(tried with s0 Sunday, not much different in clear time, really.)
I remember how mad I was at jingliu mains as a jing yuan main. When he started to fall he was the butt of the jokes (of mainly jl and acheron mains).Now I just think it is incredibly UNFAIR how hoyo treats old dps, luocha and silverwolf. Sunday shows it is sometimes such an easy fix. They just refuse to do it.
@@Moonfairy127 tbh, luocha got "replaced" the second a new sustain arrived 😂
He still is good if u need sp, though.. if gallagher is taken, that is..
@ They could save him by using his buff removal mechanic. It could be useful. Silverwolf will just join Sparkle in the " we got replaced by the male pro max version" club. Female dps and male supports are doing well these days.
The main problem is you cant just pull for the dps or support in turn
You need the whole team to get through the main content
Which means only pulling for characters you like its pointless, and watching the character you like become useless, not even less usable, just downright useless its very disheartening to say the least
And on top of pulling you have to build them, its an huge drag having to do that every 2 or 3 months
Its even worse when they offer you a way to make your favorite just a hair better. You just have to pull a character you neither like or actually want. And don't forget all the lcs and eidolons.
What character is useless ? jinliu is literally the fastest dps this MoC for exmaple that is a 1+ yera old dps
Not a HSR player but i do play others like PGR, ZZZ, GFL2 and of course Arknights and i have to say power creep is a thing that while inevitable can be done well enough in most games. You used AK as a best example but ill also bring in PGR (souls meets Nier/DMC), there are definitely stronger units that work better with team comps but at the same most of the older unita still work fine and can do all the current content.
This type of stat inflation is just lazy and cheap and doesnt show care in their work becaue if they did they would still show love to older units, plus at only 1.5 y that doesnt bode well for the future content and units.
Look....I want to agree on PGR, but I've been in that game for a long time to know....no powercreep isn't done well, it's the structure of the game that keeps the player from noticing it...which, in the end sure, it comes down to the same thing as you said, of old characters clearing stuff, so that it's alright to have the powercreep.
But my point is, every new S rank straight up is a BETTER option to the old s rank in that team, Exhibit A: Gen 1 vs Gen 2, Alpha CA vs Bianca stigmata, for a short time, people were coping that you can still do well in warzone and ppc with just alpha, but nah, straight up halves the time on the physical bosses, even Alpha's leap didn't do anything to elevate that problem.
and it's like that with every new S rank, they inevitably replace an old team member for endgame content, Hyperreal replaced Ember, Lamia replaced Luna, Shukra replaces plume and so on.
Now, again, you don't really feel the powercreep because
A: the characters are always confined to 1 team and EVERY team is needed, so Lee being the worst gen 2 attacker is true, but it didn't matter because he was the ONLY fire gen 2 attacker....and there is no one team that can clear anything.
B: Rewards everywhere are participation based, so you really need to only clear stages....not do well in them.
And C: it's relatively easy to get all the new chars because there are break patches for f2ps with either A ranks or F2p s ranks.
Now, this will change a bit in the future, with character Leaps being affix dmg based, so older characters get used for Affix dmg warzone, but that's more of a bandage solution, because they have their moveset kind of altered in a way that makes them worse for their original element OR doesn't change their moveset for the orginal element.
For example, Bianca stigmata will gain a cool Leap, it changes her movest for her Claymore form so that after her basic attack combo instead of the air waves you can do a new ground combo, BUT that combo turns her physical dmg into the new Affix dmg trueslash, the number of her counts turns red and go from the previous 99 to over 100, BUT it doesn't matter because it's no longer physical dmg but trueslash dmg, so for her physical playstyle absolutely nothing changed, it's cool for styling on bosses, but babel has been getting increasingly rarer as time went on, so were would you style on.
That is what I mean, there's actually a ton of bad powercreep in PGR, you just don't notice it as the elemental team mechanic and participation based rewards make it kind of a non issue
The issue here is that turn figthing rpgs are the worst when it comes to powercreep, specially when the characters kit its so focused and limited
ZZZ might have released miyabi making hellen the worst limited choice but hellen can still pass all content meant for miyabi, just in a less impressive way but shes still useful
Characters in SR are slowly becoming useless as time passes and thats awful
Ngl im starting to see powercreep at zzz with miyabi kinda replacing ellen
im glad in AK powercreep still in the realm of meta not mandatory. Also props to HG for handling difficulty in regular content by increasing the complexity of the mechanic and endgame content with stat bloat
HG forcing players to powercreep themselves lol
The biggest problem is the game being harder to accommodate the newer, stronger units. I'm fine with FF, Acheron dealing a bazillion damage, as long as my Jingliu can still clear MoC. And it's not just dps, supports are also subject to this. Noticing how showcases of how old dps still being usable in new meta, always contain the newer shiny supports? So then now I'm forced to pull for new units anyway in order to play with my old dps? There's no escape. I just want them to either scale down the difficulty of endgame content (because at this rate only spenders will be able to clear it), or go back and buff older units. Of course, doing either of this means less revenue for them, so it'll show whether they value players more or their money.
No way? NO WAY? NEW JAROLD CONTENT????
My #1 fan fr
Everday theirs a vid on powercreep people are milking the situation harshly ☠️🙏
The horrible gacha just compounds the powercreep issue. Nearly every other gacha in existence puts newly released characters into the general pool after their banner so you have a chance for dupes but we dont get that option
Yea, I wouldn't mind newer characters being stronger than the old ones
But the fact that they constantly increasing MoC dps requirement to the point where a lot of units can't clear anymore even with the right elements just feel sooooo bad
Although I'm not sure if it was intentional or not, but my Kafka & Black Swan comp (no sigs) feels kinda good on this rotation, it even outperforms my E0S1 Acheron team for the first half (no Jiaoqiu tho, lol). Maybe they're already on it to make older comps work again, hopefully it'll be better for more teams later on
yeah my dot team did better than acheron this cycle LOL, she's becoming very reliant on jiaoqiu zho i don't have
I think it's also more of they are actually hellbent on the approach of "creating the problem" and "selling the solution", you can literally see the next upcoming MOC rotation on HomdGcat where The Giver, Master of Legions, Lance of Fury on the second half is also probably tailored designed to shill for The Herta given the fight heavily incentives using AoE constantly to destroy the minions to deal with the boss's massive HP pool and attacking constantly to break the boss's war armor for extra damage.
Compare that to using 2.0 powerhouses like Acheron which does not work in her favor even if you use Jiaoqiu given that the boss is abysmally slow at like 79 speed? and can at most act once per cycle contributing to one stack and it does not even help when the minions also never literally take action to help Acheron generate stacks. It's also crazy that Feixiao got dumped here as well given that she was released on like September unless you somehow want to make her work here with E1 Jade but that's pushing eidolons already.
All in all one of the big problems here also is how they cater to the latest new shiny toy like a seasonal menu and it's not that older units can't completely clear but they definitely will have to work harder or put in some extra copies of their characters just to catch up.
Another day, another rant about HSR power creep, not that I'm complaining it's very much valid. I think the problem stems from HSR trying to replicate other Hoyo endgame modes which are time based by converting them into their cycle-based system. The simplified RPG elements of the game mean the only factor you can change under a 'do this in the least amount of cycles' system is enemy HP, to keep up with more elaborate characters that can do more damage and provide greater buffs per turn. The solution, imo, is that HSR needs to radically change or introduce new game modes that test your team building and use of mechanics in interesting ways that necessitate variety (I really liked the weakness switching suggestion as a simple example) since it prompts experimentation and flexibility and not just optimization. Also buff older characters, especially those without retrains, people put a lot of time into getting them and having them be utterly useless at their power ceiling because they weren't designed for the current power level is ridiculous. If you can't be bothered to directly increase character damage numbers through patches then some kind of upgrade system on the player's ends or powerful character-exclusive relic sets I think could work. New characters should be nice bonuses, not a requirement to play at the base level.
4:00 I thought you are talking about ZZZ lol. It is funny that Mihoyo able to make it balance in another game of theirs, but got super powercreep in Starrail
Thank you. The whole “discussion” Mr Pokke started is completely deflecting from the actual issues people are feeling and really just feels like drama farming. He’s not some vindicated thinker once you actually bite through all the drama fluff he put up, most people agree with his base argument once you hear the nuance. However that’s not the “powercreep problem” and it pissed me off
Yes, his points are valid, but doesn't tackle the core issue itself.
@@Jarediann Your point is valid, but let me offer an additional perspective to expand on it, not to refute it. Please feel free to correct me if I’m misunderstanding.
Which core issue are we discussing? From what I gather in your video, the main issue is that developers are creating problems and simultaneously selling solutions, but doing a poor job of it. Yes, they could manage power creep better and implement the suggestions you made, but let’s consider this from a different angle.
From Hoyoverse’s perspective, HSR is a product designed to make money. They might not see the need to invest significant resources into addressing power creep if they can continue making money without doing so.
If we understand this perspective, it leads to the conclusion that one of the core issues lies with consumers / players. The company thrives because players continue to spend money, despite the questionable practices. Companies exist to make money, and they do so because consumers choose to buy into their products.
yes in my opinion this core issues is the big bad. companies will only change when they start getting significant backlash, either from losing profits or not meeting their targets. A good example of this is ZZZ they’ve been improving because they couldn’t retain players and were facing backlash when ZZZ first launch.
@TheRedimsion I appreciate you offering another perspective. I'm aware that they want to make money, and the way they are doing it is incredible from a financial point of view, and that they have no reason to change it. However, just because I can acknowledge and understand their incentives and why they do something, doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I think as a video game, the core issue of creating a problem and selling a solution is getting old, and they do it to an egregious degree. I sort of agree that players/consumers feed into this issue, but it's not really realistic to expect a majority of the playerbase to boycott the game to make a major change. Which sucks, but that also doesn't mean that I think this issue should go unaddressed. Thanks for the well structured comment, I enjoy having civil discourse!
@@Jarediann I also enjoy having civil discussions. Sometimes I wish I could just talk to someone instead of only writing to get things off my chest.
I totally get that, but that’s just how things are right now. I think the quickest way to make a change is through boycotting, but that’s not really realistic at the moment or ever will be realistic, and it’s not the only option. All these discussions and feedback about the game’s issues are important. On a positive note, seeing so many discussions and videos shows the community is still active and healthy.
thanks to certain someone who make this issue/topic became relevant to talk about.
@@TheRedimsion genshin is also a product designed to make money (and makes more money than HSR AFAIK) and i 36* the current abyss with a 4-stars only hyperbloom team
I am playing Star rail, Zenless Zone zero and Wuthering waves right now and am thinking of dropping one because of not having enough time. Star rail is the one i enjoy the MOST out of the three be it from its story to gameplay but man the power creep really takes a lot of joy out of the game for me. I had also played Genshin for years and the power creep was very little, a lot of DPS and sub dps and support that are good but not absolutely better than anything else had released so people had time to properly save. In HSR almost everything is just better than the one came before. I literally feel obligated to pay for the monthly thing and the BP to be able to keep up
Funny thing is, HI3, the other lesser known Hoyo game does buff older characters through various means, tho they stepped away from their previous mechanic,
back in the 3.0 to 5.0 era they did something calle "core augmentation" which completely changed the character, as in the entire moveset and numbers got updated, new visuals and voice lines, usually story or event related, so "molotov cherry Rozalia" turned into "fervent tempo DELTA" from a younger character with one greatsword that had a spin to win charged attack like...idk Genshin's old claymore charged attacks from Noelle to a parry based dual wield greatsword character that had heavy story implications from an alternate reality.
I personally loved that, but I guess it was too time and effort consuming to do a complete overhaul, so they went on and made PRI's for older characters:
PRI being a new rarity for weapons, it usually removed the sp/energy cost on weapon specific attacks and made some slight alterations to the movesets of characters.
Now that every character comes with a pri(cause that's just the thing now) that ALSO fell away as a buff for characters, that was also around the 4.0 to 5.0. However they do still buff older characters by giving them NEW weapons that fill the role pri's filled back then ergo, new moves/ult finishers...better numbers.
I know, it's different teams and all, but how can they not look at their sister games and see, oh, they have had various ways, to buff older characters throughout the years and not go, "yeah, maybe we should try that as well"
Imagine a new LC for jingliu that changes her ultimate or enhanced skill to the attack she used against the Dog from feixiaos story.
On that note, I feel like some of this powercreep can be attributed to the genre and nature of gacha games as a whole, in long running Live service games powercreep is a given, it will always be a thing, otherwise, why would you even pull for new characters if you are content with your existing roster of characters, ESPECIALLY for games that already established their endgame and team setup.
What I mean by that is, how your characters have to interact with the content provided to the player,
for arknights or other more strategy based games, like, idk funnily enough fgo, the characters aren't usually made for one specific team, but a niche...or a certain game mechanic...Mostima slows, eyafjalla nukes, ho'ol levitates....and while dmg is important, doing one thing VERY well is enough to warrant thinking about a character. Ho'ol specificly got used in a DOS S3 Casterknights only clear because of her stall potential through levitating in conjuntion with mostima's slow.
In HSR the characters are mainly made for specific teams with one of 3 whole roles, support, dps, healing, you have fewer elements than classes in ak and these teams are very restrictive in their needs, so a character straight up replacing another is much more likely.
Especially with the game intentionally promoting damage over stall, with stalling usually getting heavy demerits in every gamemode other than the SU modes....Things like "clear in x number of turns" or "you only have x turns until you lose" which cuts away potential diverse character niches which also makes new characters predictable as well...
I am bringing that up because in my eyes, Hoyo games bigger problem is a balancing issue, they usually have mostly timed content, which asks for rising amounts of dps....yet they also make their endgame accolade based, so, how well you did, instead of participation based.
Because of that, you really REALLY feel when a character ages and gets replaced, because it'll impact your overall experience with the game negatively, no longer being able to 36 star any of the Abyss, memorial arena, 12 star pf or apocalyptic shadow, not being able to retain red lotus or nirvana in Superstring(hi3) it alls cuts down on your amounts of rewards in premium currency, so you can pull less for newer characters....
It's just not fun anymore if you feel forced to get all the new chars as a way to have a better chance of getting said new characters.
There, my rant about hoyo games is over, I could go on and on, but that's also why I quit all of them...I log into genshin once every year for a week to do the new continent and story, and I'll do the same for hsr, I enjoy the game's stories/lore so I will only play for that and no longer engage in the other aspects of the game, have been doing that for genshin ever since sumeru and for hsr I did that from the start. Hi3 I had to quit because my devices don't like the game so I stopped after the part 1.5 finale.....
AND HONESTLY, this way of playing has done a great deal in increasing the amount of enjoyment I get out of these games
now use any kallen kaslana
That's not "buffing old characters" That just STRAIGHT UP NEW CHARACTER 😂
@@thetcaseaway4306 Ye, that was pretty much the point of Core augments back then, kind, it ranged from character after a bit of growth like delta(she's mainly rozalia, but her sister lilya died earlier as compared to the main timeline, but since both were augmented with a certain twin honkai beasts genes they were kind of fused together, so delta can still comunicate with lilya in her mind) another interesting core augment was hawk of fog fu hua, which was one of the many persona's Fu Hua took on in her long 50k year life, she was basicly watson to Hi3's sherlock holmes....
Sadly they stopped doing them years ago by now, to this day, imo the best way of improving old chars,
@ebering4.039 yeah, because from cost standpoint, "buffing" Old characters required more investment than just straight up making new playable characters.
Let's count, from the top of my head, they need to basically new characters but inline with old characters somehow. Make stories (canon or not) to "insert" The new(old) characters. They need to design the new kit and make it somehow new but also an Upgrade of the old kit (weapon, stigmata etc).
If it's new Playable characters, the story and model already handled by the main team, now you just need to make NEW Characters without any restriction and reference, you can go ham with the kit because it's new, no need to consider and mix match with what any previous characters have, and most if not all is basically Canon.
So yeah. Make sense.
A character in their respective gameplay stay relevant for about 2-3 patches until they release new one. Then to increase their lifespan they release another 5 star character to buff an already falling unit.
But, it's not a guaranteed fix, they will release another one that is stronger and cheaper in the next 1 or 2 patch and the loop continues.
This is them forcing you to pull characters you don't even want keeping an unhealthy state of powercreep. I think HSR has the worst powercreep design that gives you no room for creativity when characters are stuck in their archetypes with fixed teams that you have to complete pulling before getting powercrept.
Dam I hate how true this is, the only place where I have fun at this point is doing the sim uni with any char I want
Same!
This is the reason why I am heavily, and honestly probably will, drop this game. The fact that not just older 1.0 units are just completely abandoned now, it was the fact that earlier 2.X characters were powercrept by later 2.X characters is what really opened my eyes (Gallagher and Lingsha just to name just one). Plus the fact that the core mechanics that the game established are just completely negated and ignored now. Specifically things like type weakness, toughness, and even turn order just don't even matter anymore with units that implant weakness types and Robin breaking turn orders.
One additional thing that maybe isn't really considered powercreep but is another reason I have a gripe with HSR is signature lightcones. For many characters their signature is MILES above any other option (i.e. Acheron's doing so much more damage or Sunday's making him SP positive) but their lightcones ONLY work for them. There is no such thing anymore about a 5* lightcone that can be used by multiple units.
It baffles me that there are some HSR meat riders who don't think that powercreep is a huge issue with HSR and will probably kill the game
Powercreep in HSR is painful. I've managed to get by MoC mainly using Acheron/Kafka and Ruan Mei/Black Swan, but even that could barely get a 3 star some times. Pure Fiction while neat, just feels like you need certain characters built otherwise it's impossible to do. The main thing that made me quit playing HSR was primarily how grinding was required but they don't provide sufficient resources. It's always painful to grind materials for traces since you need about 100 T3s (probably higher), but every 6 runs you get about 2-3 T3s (after crafting). Same with relics, I despise stat RNG so much. It's especially painful on Planar Ornaments since they're much harder to get, and there's way less flexibility depending on which on you're going for. At least with normal relics you can always throw them on a different character, but planars are basically meant for only a certain character/typing.
AK does resource grinding SIGNIFICANTLY better, I don't even remember the last time I've actually ran out of a resource currently (then again, it's been almost 5 years). I really liked playing HSR, and I'm just hoping they make the game less resource intensive or give out more resources. I really wanted to try and build some 4 stars, but it's literally impossible when you have to spend around a month's worth of fuel on each character if you want to use them.
Either A: Add at least another difficulty with much higher rates (like how AK added new levels for LMD and EXP) B: Reduce the amount of T3s for traces. The grind is honestly painful. Also wished that you could at least designate what main stat you want on relics as well without having to use the crafting things. It just sucks trying to grind for an ATK% or Quantum just to end up with Healing or EHR.
The thing is, Jingliu is supposed to counter the bug boss on Floor 12? He spawns bugs every time he goes that have less HP which is why Jingliu's enhanced attack is blast, so you can focus on the big bug, kill with the splash damage, and implant the vulnerability. But HP pools have gotten so inflated you can't do that anymore, I'm over here doing an enhanced blast on a minion hoping it kills at all. Jingliu and Sunday are both at E0S1, she has a 30 CR / 240 CD set up on her new best in slot, and it took me 7 cycles to clear this guy because I don't have Robin. Probably could've gotten it down to 6 if I really tried? I'm pulling Big Herta and it feels like I'm putting Jingliu in a retirement home, which sucks because she's the first character I pulled when I started this game.
I honestly feel like power creep does the opposite of it’s intended effect for me, as a long time Genshin player I feel more incentivized to spend and pull in that game because I know I’ll be able to use any character for a long time, whereas in HSR I’m super stingy and F2P, which then makes the game less fun and more artificially hard, which makes me want to play less. It’s gotten to the point that even story fights are tedious to get through, so I have even less incentive to play.
Left the game a couples months ago and the more time passes the less likely i am to return, since my characters are gonna be powercrept to death and clearing endgame will be a dream since i won't have the new shinny toys (that will also be powercrept in like 3 versions)
Yeah the game is super hard now, I'm not even interested in playing or even the update coming soon like the enemies are too damn strong and not to mention they get more actions it seems more than your team itself like even the MOC with only lvl 60 characters against lvl 60 enemies ends up dying like how???
how they can fix this, or at least prevent current and future characters from getting powercrept:
- add more endgame modes. pf is perfect. amazing for every aoe dps, easily available characters like herta and himeko. characters like argenti who are specifically made for pf are good in pf to this day
- more 4*s, less 5*s. give us more gallagher and herta esque 4*s PLEASE. we do not need 2 5*s every update and we do not need them to all be good for only 4 updates
- make more niche characters but don't make them insanely op, let them be VERY good in certain situations and pretty good in general situations. jing yuan's a good example with his niche being in pf. that can prevent them from powercreeping previous characters. this only applies for 5*s tho, 4*s should be universal
- add more standard characters and make them good like himeko and bronya, more accessible 5* units is always good
- STOP making characters do the same thing. break dpses are fine because we have a ST, blast and aoe but WTF is going on with the crit dpses and supports?
- give characters normal scaling. acheron and herta have NO reason to be better against 3 enemies than blast type dpses like jingliu. blast type dpses are built for 3 enemies, they CANNOT compare against aoe dpses against 5 enemies. why powercreep them in their own niche with characters who have another niche?
- add more gameplay types. we only have fua, dot, break, summon, hp manipulation (literally just blade rn) for now (im not counting crit, hp, def, aoe, blast, st, etc bc those are too universal)
We need to make the Chinese community to complain about this HP inflation, cuz Chinese community's voice have a higher chance to be heard by miHoYo than global's voic. Also, love the use of Arknights as the comparisson of endgame's powercreep
Hoyoverse didn't do anything about it because cn community doesn't complain. And they probably won't.
CN and ASIA community as a whole doesn't seem to have a problem with powercreep, if you were to complain about it as an oldie, you'd most likely be clowned.
Most of the low costs run (even the 1 cost Herta that I saw a few ytbers did) are all coming from bilibili
2:34 my Seele E0S1 + Sunday E0S1 + Sparkle E0S1 + Fu Xuan E0S1 got 4 cycles on the swarm, the swarm is still a good matchup for Seele IF you can kill the insects to regenerate her ult faster. But the previous Svarog was at best 6 cycles and Hoolay (with mono quantum) took me 9 cycles (needed SW to proc the MOC buff and almost dying at the end). I'm fine with taking 4-5 cycles to finish but i'm afraid that the HP inflation will make even good matchup's not be enough for 5 cycles.
Totally agree
Cleared bug with E0S1 Seele, E0S0 Sparkle, E0S0 Sunday and E0S1Aventurine in 5 cycles so I do understand the sentiment
It's almost like the content is what makes characters stronger/weaker, it's no surprise that quantum resistant enemies (svarog, hoolay and all of their elites) are hard for her, though 9 cycles is kind sad. I do have 2 eidolons but my mono quantum cleared Hoolay in 1 cycle. You cleared the current swarm MoC in 4 cycles and that's with ONLY the boss being quantum weak, imagine what would happen if all enemies were quantum weak.
Powercreep has always been in the content/enemies, not the characters.
@@Audaciter2 they were resistent to quantum? And how did you clear Hoolay in 1 cycle with mono quantum?
@@hashgulso_osu
Likely a sustain-less hyperspeed sparkle build.
@@hashgulso_osu for the last 9-10 months this is the first MoC with a quantum weak enemy and it's just the boss itself not the elites as well, so yes everything until now was quantum resistant. And like I said I have 2 eidolons on my Sparkle and LCs, so it's much easier, but without eidolons it should still be a 5 cycle clear at worst unless the builds of the characters are bad.
And no, @Sam_Hue mono quantum means fu xuan as well so not sustainless, I do have a pretty good Seele build (although a bit weird since I use atk % body piece and SSS relic set) so I do quite a bit of dmg even with sustain.
This is why at launch, I think that it's STUPID that many CC Praise HSR turn based game as "casual friendly" Or "very simple" And other shit.
This is why they should've been going the classic turn based strategy game instead. The way they can POWERCREEP the game is using this shitty way, because their Features is very limited.
Just watch FGO for f sake, they are that old and to this day, the OG saber is STILL a viable characters. Their POWERCREEP-ing is more diverse and many Feature they can tweak.
Honestly, feels vindicated and I can say "I told you so" LOL.
Also, PLEASE compare ORANGE with ORANGE! don't bring APPLES to the comparison. Compare HSR to other Turn based Gacha, not Wuwa, Genshin, Arknight, or other bullshit.
😂 They cannot compare with Fgo because they never play it to begin with because they thinks that any gacha that make lower revenues than hoyo games aren't worth the try or mostly just new to gacha games and acts like veterans in gacha games
@@buzzduelI've been playing gachas for years, way before genshin existed lil bro. And I even just recently got into fgo, but sure, talk your shit like you know anything about me💀
@@Jarediann "recently"?
@@buzzduel A lotta assumptions and projecting there buddy.
1.0 was such a wet dream...
Since HSR is a turn-based game, I can compare it to the gacha I played before switching to Hoyo games, which was Dokkan Battle
Dokkan is now 10 years old, and the powercreep is absolutely insane, units now deal upwards of 20+ million dmg with close to (if not more than) 1 million defense, On top of that, defensive mechanics that used to be very niche and unique to a few god-tier defensive units like guard (which basically halves incoming dmg to put it simply), general dmg reduction and dodging, are now almost the norm, because the dmg inflation from endgame content is so absurd that you NEED them to simply survive - new character who don't have them are dead on release, literally. To put things into perspective, I started playing around the 4th anniversary I believe, so, close to half the current lifespan of the game, and defensive juggernauts had like, a 100K def OR some strong defensive mechanic - not both, and certainly not a combination of several defensive mechanics. And damage figures where maybe 5% of what they are now if I'm being very generous. So yeah, extreme powercreep to say the least
But it wasn't always like that. When I quit around two years ago, this trend had started only kinda recently, maybe a year or so. Before that, there was powercreep yes, but it was slow and steady, slow enough that "good" units remained good at the very least an entire year, if not two. The most broken (at the time) defensive units could easily remain god-tier 3+ years, and even when they weren't god-tier anymore, they could still stay relevant for a while. And because, as opposed to hoyo games, Dokkan often gives out direct buffs to old units by awakening them which basically updates their passive and base stats, some units even made incredible come-backs, becoming meta again for a while - usually by evening the playing field with current units. Say an old character could be meta by having guard and nothing else in the very old days of the game, well after some time it wasn't enough anymore, so they gave them additional def%, or a defense stacking mechanic, or let's say a little bit of dmg reduction. That + the base stat increase was usually enough to make old characters relevant again, or even meta. As time went on, awakenings became really important to the game's balance, to where the community tried to envision what an awakened character's kit could look like in the future. The kind of buff units could get also evolved. It used to be that a unit would basically get bigger number, which would simply make them better at what they were doing, which was already a good thing. But over time, more stuff started to be added in these buffs, for instance an offensive character could get nice defensive utility and vice-versa, or, units that had a bare-bones kit could get mechanics they completely lacked beforehand, like being able to stun enemies, to dodge, to buff the team, etc
Obviously the current state of powercreep makes this somewhat irrelevant. A unit that just got buffed can get powercrept immediately - or not even be able to keep up at all despite the buff. But it used to be that, in conjuction with a slower powercreep, this way of steadily buffing old characters (and not just once - a character can get several awakenings over time) kept the game fairly engaging despite its lack of depth in terms of gameplay
I believe HSR should either 1) drastically slow down powercreep or 2) directly buff old units over time. It could be done in so many ways, too ! They could :
- let you level them up over the current limit of 80, let's say to level 90 or higher, which would provide a nice increase in terms or raw base stats
- add one (or more) new passive(s)
- update existing passives
- increase scalings
- update the traces tree
- add a secondary traces tree
- update eidolons (not my fav option here, but it could at least be nice for standard characters since you can potentially get a bunch of cons of them over time)
- lastly, they could put old characters on a limited banner but with a discount depending on how old they are ; this way, you can get let's say two or three copies for the "price" of one, which effectively means that now, e0 of the shiny new 5* costs as much as e1 or e2 of an older 5* when they are on the banner at the same time. Not exactly my fav option either, but in the presence of rampant powercreep, it seems fair that "obsolete" characters should cost less than up-to-date ones. Let's say I'm going to pull Silver Wolf on her rerun, well, it kinda hurts that 1 copy of her costs the same amount of pulls/money as Robin, for instance. The same is true of pulling *insert obsolete dps* when *insert new meta dps* is on the banner at the same time, etc
Ofc I feel bad about powercreep. Only whales are fine with it which is l;ike 0.01% of players. Rest are sacrificed.
My e6 Clara is by fact worse than e0 Yunli.
Jiaoqiu and Guinaifen also VERY similar. But in this case atleast Gui isnt 5*.
Hm? Why you care tho? If you have fun have fun. If you want to do the hardest content you need the strongest characters .
Having bosses that change elemental weakness would easily be counterable though. It would just force you to use Firefly or Silver Wolf. But yeah I'm so sick of this HP bloat nonsense and I don't want to have to pull for characters I don't like just to keep up.
Idk why they don't just put in something that is a resource to just increase multipliers, and older units can use more of it.
That way, the older units can have multipliers on the same level as the new units.
They'll still be weaker because their mechanics aren't tailored to the current meta, but they won't be in such a dogwater state where even their baseline is just worse. Instead, it's more inoptimized than straight up inferior.
They wont because they want you to pull
Bro seele is a fuking monster if she got higher multiplier (if enemy can summon ofc), the reason why she's bad now is because her multiplier is ass and she can't oneshot trash mob
Yeah it makes me pretty sad. People say that they do buff characters, that Jing Yuan is meta again...but he's still worse than Acheron, and let's not forget that Aglea is Lightning. Her MoC is gonna be a 8 cycle clear for him, at the very least.
Meanwhile in Arknights I didn't even know that Siege is bad and powercrept for about a year of playing, and even then I still use her sometimes and it doesn't feel utterly hopeless.
HI3 made the smart choice with its brutal powercreep, by making older characters increasingly easy to max the ranks of through F2P purchases or event drops.
Yes, since a lot of its rewards are tied to competitive ranking.
I miss contingency contract in arknights cuz it was a way to test not only how strong your account was but how much knowledge you've obtained since playing/the last cc. It's why i hate hsr,'s approach which is the sell a character.
(Also trials for navigator too, it's such a cool way to showcase how far I've came along)
Yeah, it's just getting stupid, my maxed E3S1 Acheron cannot clear half the new bosses because she either doesn't weakness break fast enough, doesn't do enough single target DMG or FU Xuan just can't sustain 5 cycles anymore with how much DMG increased as well. I stopped spending money months ago, hoyo just doesn't care about their games like other gacha games do.
As someone who plays around once every 6 months, it's not just endgame content. Penacony is a huge step up in terms of power compared to all the other regions and unless you pulled for Acheron, black swan or aventurine or you had good 1.0 5 stars it was really hard. Either you had to grind out artefacts, get lucky with the boss attacks or pull the newest 5 star character, the game is so hard to beat with only 4 stars / no 5 star dps charactres.
I'm glad that the games I like most aren't going this path
Genshin literally has lateral power creep, maybe they release a stonks character and suddenly a dozen old characters get buffed. They release Xilonen who does almost the same as Kazuha, but the game requires 2 teams, so 2 Kazuhas is good. In 4 years of runtime, only Ayato and Albedo got legit outclassed, everyone else is still very decent and even these 2 characters who got power crept, are still useful in the Theater mode. I love that they'll just slap some random "feeblecreep" character like Emilie that I can literally go and get because I think she's super cute, not because she's any relevant
As for Zenless, it's still a very young game, idk how they'll work with this game yet. The obvious direction is to add enemies who are more resistant to anomaly build up so that regular attack characters can have their turn at being decent, maybe add some enemies that are too resistant to damage while not stunned so that they reward the player for using stun characters, maybe some enemies that are harder to deal with without a shield, add more shielders, this game is still very young and has space to grow, but they'll need to add new mechanics soon to keep it interesting
Everyone praising the game non stop for almost two years and backlashing anyone who gave a minimal criticism helped the game come this far.
Anyway, I stopped after getting Fugue, this game does not respect the time and money of the players.
Funny how, in active days I'm stopping with a smaller amount than what it took me to be AR60 in Genshin, a game where I could clear a recent abyss with 1.0 characters and where 1.3 DPS are still meta relevant in 5.3.
If you are tired of the powercreep, quit playing too (no need to be permanently) because that's basically the only way Mihoyo will ever care.
HSR was powercreeped even at launch by Seelah herself. I play Arknights because I found that very often new content makes old characters more viable not less because of mechanics that require certain operators to beat. Especially in IS it doesn't matter if you have Wisadel or Logos, there are bosses that don't care about pure damage, instead you'll need stuff like Slow or Sleep etc. Hoyo games in general have awful end game modes and tedious gacha that requires much more money to feel impactful.
HSR does have one major problem, that contributes to the powercreep: It is turnbased, with no movement/deployment, only 4 characters per team and 3 abilities per character, if you are generous. Due to that you don't have many levers to increase a characters power.
You can only really increase dmg/hp , because otherwise you will break its turn based system due to cc&buff stacking.
@@Lukashoffmann94 Yup I agree. When it comes down to it, the gameplay is too basic, they should have went with something to Legend of Heroes games.
@@Lukashoffmann94this kind of thing makes me think that turn based games don't work as gacha games xd.
@@PoyoPoyomfswell hsr works, works incredibly well even, bcs hoyo name is already big, i wonder why :clueless:
@@PoyoPoyomfs They can work, but not if you also reduce combat to 2 possible actions per character round and 1 ult every so often.
Genshin might have its issues but one think it has going for it and no matter what you can ALWAYS best the story and do endgame with 1.X characters. Yes even this 5.2 abyss(I've seen ppl do it with 1.X characters and 4* only. Trust me it's doable). After 4 years characters like Bennett are still being recommended in Mavuika treams.
I played HSR when it first dropped and stopped around 1.3 cause burn out. I tried to get back into it a few patches later and god it felt so bad. Not just cause I'm a casual who doesn't have decent builds but like even the story is so ass power wise. I'm f2p so I can't just pull every new character out. I have to do with what I got or wait and by then I might not be into it anymore.
I keep telling friends who play HSR it's powercreep is bad as someone who doesn't play anymore but they kinda say it's only Seele. She's just the start?
That's like saying "Xiao can't clear abyss anymore". Xiao was crazy af when he came out and thanks to characters like Xianyun and Faruzan he's actually a lot better not but even without them he is usable. Saying Seele can't clear anymore means that one day Fangxiao can't clear anymore and so on. HSR fandom needs to lock in
I feel like MOC 12 is pretty much a trap for spenders. Hoyo is the dealer on MOC who keeps upping the buy in. That’s the life of DPS they’re great for the first 3 patches they get pushed aside for the new and with in 1 year they’re nostalgic.
Even Ak has issues with powercreep. Yet they still manage to find a balance. Hoyo started their powercreep issues with Genshin. If we look at their bigger gacha games. Idk about ZZZ.
But I have heard many complain that powercreep in Star Rail is a very big issue. But yeah. Inflating stats is one lazy way Hoyo fixes end-game. It just sucks. They should be more creative and stop accelerating powercreep so much especially in Star Rail.
No bro, miHoYo and the powercreep is a long-lasting love story since Honkai Impact 3rd
You can still full clear abyss with all 4 stars. That’s just impossible with hsr
ZZZ is still very new to consider at the moment
@@grass7560 god bless hyperbloom
80 crystals are not worth it - what about my time? what about my pulls? I pulled for the characters, spent many weeks grinding for recourses to build and get good artifacts FOR THEM to be less and less efficient to the point where even with new harmonies they barely do 5 cycles.
The jingliu floor 12 might be a skill issue tbh, I cleared with mine in 3 cycles, jingliu is e0s1, same for sunday and then huohuo and rm are at e0s0, so 3/4 of the team is 1.x with sunday just being a bronya improvement. So yeah powercreep is a problem, but also as we saw with jing yuan, a simple support can bring back a dead character.
"genshin could never" uno card
“Genshin could never” became “Genshin could better”
I'm still using Seele. now ima go play pure fiction :3
5 minutes later...
[wheeze] DON'T DIE NOW SEELE, WE'RE ONLY ON STAGE 10 OF MEMORIES OF CHAOS
Funny thing is people keep flexing Seele runs but can't do it themselves. When they do, they run it with the latest busted supports.
@@Kicksrockskidslike every other character in the game? Firefly with Fugue Ruan Mei HMC. Acheron with Jiaoqiu Robin or Sunday. Feixiao Premium team?
Literally no DPS can do good results in this new MoC without having eidolons or supports
@@Kicksrockskidswell no shet, noone is op without their dedicated supports, yk.
And seele doing her job with the harmonies is still impressive. Heck, even qq is awsome with all the buffs she can get now.
@@johnd7760 And there is no issue with that. The problem is you hear those saying you don't need latest units, proceeds to use 1.x dps,but then add Sunday or Fugue.
Surprised I haven't seen anyone mention FGO. Something I really enjoy is that they do do "Interlude" and "Rank Up" Quests. Which is essentially a quick typically easy level you clear for the sole purpose of upgrading something about them. An existing skill typically but also sometimes their Noble Phantasm (Their Ultimate).
And these changes can do anything from just be a nice little increase in numbers value to new additional effects that outright change how they can play the game. Let them have insane new synergies with other characters. I've seen characters be skyrocketed from the bottom of the tier list to the near top solely based off one little change to their kit.
Now FGO is not perfect by any means but at least that IS something I like about it. At any moment I'm not paying attention a Unit that has been gathering dust in my box can suddenly get a buff that makes them viable again. Oh, and the Grail System lets you just forcibly level up a Unit past their cap so you do have a solution if sheer Attack Stat is a problem. But that is a limited resource keep in mind.
So yeah. If they added such a system to HSR...that'd be amazing. They could just have sidequests that just overwrite and buff existing traces so they wouldn't even have to change the constellation skill tree.
PS: I've delt with the powercreep in HSR with what I learned in FGO. A good Attacker is a good Attacker, but a good Support can make multiple Attackers into good Attackers. So I just prioritize headhunting those. Mainly the Harmony ones.
as an e0s1 seele and jingliu haver this video is diabolical for me lmao i can't clear the new moc with them at all and like their stats aren't even bad imo it's so frustrating, ik everything is optional in this gacha game but still it doesn't feel good :(
I agree. Honestly as much as I love the game it's why I actually stopped playing regularly. Power creep is fine but when 5 stars are barely lasting even 2 patches that's a problem. I don't mind spending on a game I enjoy but I'm not going to whale to keep up. I'm only going to be playing when new story gets added.
Arknights is a 5 year old game and can still say release day units like hoshiguma, ptilopsis and eyja are viable in endgame contents.
For hsr. i agree with the last part of the vid, i think its cause of the core gameplay itself needs to be revamped otherwise its going the genshin route.
But ehh hoyos just gonna release another game anyway and the cycle will just continue
This definitely needs change, my Firefly team clears anything, I can just choose this team whatever the enemy, while 6 stars with the correct element struggle.
I mean HSR has a way of retro-buffing Niece units through giving us new Supports/DPS/Sustains for certain niece's and sets, but yeah more enemy veriety would help. As a big fan of HSR i gotta say the way powercreep is handled is kinda bad, but I hope that they turn it down and just go with different playable nieces instead of raw number creep in the forseeable future.
Fellow F2P jingliu main here. Clearing Moc12 with her using hyper carry. Oh my god that was BRUTAL. I used firefly for the first wave with 2 cycles cleared. Jingliu took a total of 8 CYCLES. 8! I was running a fully hyper carry team for her which was Jingliu, Bronya, Sparkle, and Huohuo. Only things to note was I got lucky on my Jingliu pulls getting her at e1s1 and Bronya well she's e3s1. BUT still. It honestly felt like the swarm boss for moc 12 was designed for Madam Herta when she drops. The powercreep is really absurd just to what. incentivize people to spend more money or f2p jades to just get another 80 or 160 jades if you can't clear moc 11/12. Zeto's play through with his original no pulling account demonstrates the absurdity of power creep in HSR.
Heck even making it so seele's extra attacks count as follow up attacks can help her as she gets buffed from other characters in new ways. Can make it so silver wolfs ult is aoe, give jingliu superbreak on her enhanced skill, make blade trigger stacks on hit/dots so he used his talent more even on dots or shields, etc.
Just add newer mechanics to old characters so they are keeping up with the new characters
Giving Jingliu superbreak doesnt make sense. I prefer a straight up Multiplier buff and making her "100% Action Advance" an Extra turn ala Seele/Rappa, so buffs dont run out before she vould even enter her enhanced state
@MrcreeperDXD777 she already gets action advance in her enchanced state doesnt she? Only other thing besides superbreak is follow up attack which doesnt really makes sense for jingliu. I was comparing her with firefly(destruction) so thought of superbreak. It could just only be weakness pierce instead but if shes getting that might as well get superbreak as well
@@zod3632 she does, but an action advance and an extra turn is different. An action advance would use up a turn of buffs, while an extra turn doesn't. If Jingliu was given an extra turn instead of an action advance, she'd be able to keep the Bronya/Sparkle buffs instead of losing them after getting to her enhanced state
Looking back at HSR's official UA-cam page, I noticed something: from 1.1 to 2.1, each patch had two five-stars accompanied by one four-star, however, they stopped doing this pattern once 2.2 rolled around (Robin/Boothill).
I feel as though that patch (2.2) was when powercreep started to show its cracks, as five-stars began to vastly overtake four-stars, making the former more integral to gameplay. It also didn't help that 2.2 practically hard-locked the game into a Superbreak meta for the remainder of the version, with some exceptions (e.g. Jade, Yunli, Feixiao).
Honestly, HSR needs to do two things: (1) introduce more universal four-stars to give some five-stars "breathing room"; and (2) have at least two gameplay archetypes per version (i.e. 3.0-3.X having units that focus on Summons and DOTS).
Imagine if Arknights released DOS but harder every new meta unit.
Even as a casual story and waifu only player, I was trembling when I first realized how much more predatory HSR compared to other games. It's not even funny.
And yet, there are still people who defend this BS. Moreover, blaming players for not pulling smartly. 😤
March 7ths enhanced basic in hunt does more than seele ult.
hsr lacks varieties in enemies and characters to tackle those enemies so they instead boost damage of units and hp of enemies
Idk why Hoyoverse rarely ever does buffs to characters. Seems weird especially because it seems like an easy way to get people to spend money on a banner for an old character.
Let's take Robin as one example: I have a lot of use for her, but I don't even dare to pull her, because by now I don't know what 3.x will bring. If I could be sure that a character would seriously last another year or so then I might pull on a third run, but the way HSR is progressing rn, I fear I might only waste my precious jades that I want to use on a character I actually enjoy. Robin is just not that to me.
So, I stick to my old chars and build them instead. Screw the endgame, I'm not interested anymore. I go as far as my chars take me and that's it. I want to have fun playing this game, not force myself to keep up with the whales.
NOW people are starting to know about HSR powercreep?
"First time?" - Said the Hi3rd captain
Never heard of arkknights's module mechanic to buff old characters btw, but i want to mention hoyo old game, honkai impact 3, specifically part 1 because i dropped it before part 2. They also did this technically but it's with new signature weapons that are hyper specialised to the character.
The problems are 1) those new signatures are gacha.
2) hi3 combat wants like 1 dps for each type+element. So said old character that is buffed, is the only intended option from mihoyoverse, and by the time we get another dps of the same type and element coverage, it'll be so long that it's direct powercreep time. So the system became another monetization scheme.
3) yes you can cope with different type dps, especial if they're the newest op one, but hi3 uses a leaderboard system for 2/3 of endgame content.... so you're competing with people who gacha.
They even had a 2nd system that was to buff old characters which is crafting a buff version of their signature weapons, and yes it's almost completely free, just a grind.
But.... every new dps signature was made with a buffed weapon to craft, which became the base line, which means the system just became a way to grind rather than buff old characters. I can only think of 1 example from part 1 hi3, that was released without a pri arm (the buff weapon) and later added to actually buff her.
Basically what I'm saying is star rail can implement whatever new system they want, but it won't do the game any good if a hi3 part 1 occurs. And it's from the same developers.....
I Think Super Break Disturb The Balance In HSR, When Firefly Release She Just One Shot Every Enemy in The Game Literally Every Enemy, Now Rappa Lingsha And Fugue Are Doing This Even Faster, To Avoid The One Shot They Started To Increase The HP, And Releasing 2 New Powerful Character Every Patch Making The HP Inflation Even Worse For Older Character
I constantly use the example of fgo mostly because I've been playing for 5 years on na but they do powercreep well. its a game all about farming as effeciently as possible but rarely do you need a new unit for it. As long as you have one of the 4 meta 5 star supports you can farm easily with whoever you want.
for example with buster you can easily use saber artoria who's a year 1 servant thats in the standard pool, but shes been buffed so much and does so much damage that she can easily compete with other aoe buster sabers despite her age. where as hoyo refuses to ever buff old characters.
I just recently started playing, so I can't weigh in on the comparison, but this is good to know!
@Jarediann hsr or fgo? If fgo I can give my uid so you can use my supports
genshin got away with very little powercreep for years because characters feel so different to play that they can be worth pulling just for fun
much harder to do this with HSR combat system
As you have said,
One of the biggest misfortune is to have old units that new players won't want to pull anymore because there are new units much stronger than them.
If Kafka got a rerun and somebody who started the game in 2.0 really liked Kafka,
They would be dumb to pull her considering the 2.x meta.
So a player is kind of torn between choosing to play meta or their favorite units
And that's bad. To make those old units so much weaker and borderline unavailable.
Because if someone who started in 2.x wanted to clear with Kafka they had to invest much more into her to be on par with the concurrent dps standards
The powercreep in HSR has gotten so bad to the point older units need to be directly buffed or else Hoyo would just end up killing the game at this rate. Characters should not be considered useless within a year or less.
I've been getting frustrated with the choices being made in HSR, and I'm pretty much at the verge of just giving up at this point. I've been saving up for quite a while now because I like the idea of The Herta and I thought it'd be neat to build a new kind of team around her. But I'm also not a fan of pulling dupes. Every dupe is basically another entire character I could have gotten. The Herta though? e2 can be a 108% damage increase over E0 for doing the same thing. She literally power creeps herself. If I pull her, then the best thing I could do for any team I want to build around her would be to e2 her. There's no other character that's going to do more than just taking my main DPS and doubling her damage for basically nothing but meta-currency. The entire situation just makes me not want to pull her at all now. How do they even balance the power level of Erudition teams when something like that exists? I don't feel like they even care about that.
For the difficulty just being done through stat inflation, they can't make situations require substantially different strategies because they make the effort in building characters absolutely ridiculous, let alone making you try to build teams that practically require specific characters to be viable. Grinding relics is puling teeth - nobody wants to do it to gear up older weaker characters. It's the same resource as you need to optimize your main teams, and you almost always could just farm for better rolls on your good characters instead. Even slight upgrades to your main team is going to do more for you than spending weeks farming up a character you have no plan to use. There are so many damn relic sets that you almost always end up needing to fully farm an entirely new set for each character anyways.
Thank God i quit this game😅
I have E0S1 Seele and even with E0S1 Sunday + E2S1 Sparkle and E1S1 Fuxuan she just sucks so much in MoC that it isn't even worth using her... feels bad ngl
Thats how the IPC forgetting Belobog
Reminds me of when I found my favorite HSR character, DHIL, rolled for his E2, applying my experience from a certain other HoYo game where nearly every character is able to clear endgame 4 years after their release and thinking I'd be set for a few years. Was able to use him for a few months before HoYo started shilling other archetypes. Rolled Sparkle (and missed Robin because of it lol) because I thought they'd shill SP-heavy archetype again, but nah, she promptly got put on the shelf to collect dust alongside DHIL. During the entirety of 2.x, I was maybe able to use them twice, plus once in the current MoC12, which seems MADE for DHIL... but...
I barely cleared within 4 cycles. Against the enemies that were introduced alongside DHIL (Swarm boss) to make him feel powerful back in the day. With his E2 and nigh-perfect relics. Only a little over a year since he was released. Granted, Sunday didn't have great relics yet since I've only been non-stop farming them for one entire patch (*COUGH*), but it's ridiculous regardless.
I didn't like most 2.x characters, except Aventurine (... who is bugged), but felt forced to pull and use them to keep up, instead of characters I actually liked. Some degree of powercreep is inevitable, but with how fast HSR's powercreep is, you can barely enjoy a new DPS before they become irrelevant. Sustains have it a bit easier because enemy attack power hasn't increased as heavily as enemy HP, so you can still use Luocha or HuoHuo and be fine, but it still sucks when "the star of the show" can only shine for a few months.
Daily Thank You for content creators addressing this disgusting issue. Thx ❤
Idk why people's argument is always like "you don't always need to clear in 0 cycles just enjoy the game".
Bruh if some teams cleared in 4 or 5 cycles already then next 2 patches they're going to clear in 6 or 7.
3.X is coming and look at those numbers, jeez can you look ahead with this rate of powercreep. 7-8 cycle clear would be perfectly fine if that is stable from 1.6 to 2.7, nobody gives that much damn about 0 cycling unless very few select people.
What people also forget to address is right now yeah you can clear 5 cycles and whatever but what about in 6 months if it keeps this way it will be 8 cycles with 1 team. Also i want someone clearing with a full 4 star team you can't see any where in other gachas you can do it FGO for example.
Why don't we have element/path resonance buffs or something like that seriously. It would make mono quantum/imaginary/ice viable, 2-2 comps would be creative blah blah
I hate powercreep as much as anyone else but i actually managed clearing moc 12, 4 cycles with jingliu eos1 and e0s0 every supports
I still clear MoC 11-12 with E0S0 Blade.
Yeah, power creep sucks, but people exaggerate it.
Yeah, I am not buying into any new mechanics HSR introduces, the upcoming summoning system can frick off, In penacony we have literally gone through 4 major mechanics, like wtf, We started 2.X off with Destruction dual carry being meta, then DoT was meta, then FUA was meta and now Super Break is meta, and the moment 3.0 launches, it'll be obsolete like everything before it. And all MHY will do is artificially pump up enemy HP pools and give new characters bigger multipliers. This crap HAS to stop, it's predatory af!
In hindsight, MHY has done this with every single one of their games, I played GGZ a long time ago, it's also known as HG2, then I played HI3, and then Genshin and now HSR, they have literally done this in every game they've released, it's the whole reason I decided not to even bother with ZZZ, because I know that if I built up all of the"meta" 1.X banner characters now, they will all be made useless in 2.X because of HP bloat, new mechanics, new and better relic sets which will only work for the newer characters, etc.
Eh genshin power creep is not bad at all. Most of the meta 1.x characters are still very strong. The only exception being cryo and Venti specifically.
@@blastimbreeven venti is still the best at what he does, its just that what he does best isn't useful anymore.
Preach! help save the game!
Jingliu:I’m falling 😢
Seele:first time ?
So something to keep in mind. If people want to use older characters, yes. They will have to invest in them. Sorry, but E0S0 Seele with no upgrades to support isn't gonna 0 cycle anymore. It is what it is. But people prove all the time without spending a dime that yes, you can beat hardest content with older characters. And a huge way to do so is improve your supports. Hell, people cleared APS4 with freaking Serval and even Welt. How? E1 Robin. That is it.
If people want comfort? Pick up the shiny new toy of the month and click auto battle. Anyways, what happened here was the inflation got high because they gave us a busted f2p option: HMC. So if someone plays a break team, historically they will be just fine. Where they screwed up though, was barely upgrading any other archetype. Hyper carry, DOT, FUA was late, etc. So it kinda made players feel restricted in what they could play. Not good. This is why I assume they made the new remembrance TB the way they did. Seems to work with basically everyone, not just summons.
So yeah, as a result we should be fine. But again, if you want to use an older character, invest in the supports and/or upgrade the dps in question. Hell Jing Yuan was mid and not great, but thanks to Sunday he is fantastic now. Even Jingliu performed great this last MOC thanks to the enemy having ice weakness, and of course supports like Sunday or Robin help. That is how you do it. They wont buff old characters: that is what Sig and Eidolons are for. So if you really love a character from like a year ago? Invest in them. And no, you dont gotta spend a dime. Just be smart and be patient. Thats how I do it, and I beat end game all the time as f2p. Just offering perspective to anyone that struggles.
On top of all that don't forget this is a turn base rpg, so it is less about player skill, but more about picking the right unit(5star mostly)
As somebody who started playing Honkai during version 2.0, I'm down for the powercreep because I don't feel like I missed out on the powerful units that came before. Since most of them were powercreeped out of viability, I did not feel pressured into rolling for anything other than a few select units like Ruin Mei or Fu Xuan, so I mostly rolled the new characters.
Powercreep in a vacuum is kind of necessary for gacha games for that reason, the problem is not the existence of powercreep in HSR but the speed at which decided to make it increase. At this pace new players will feel ok and old players feel they basically wasted most of their pulls on characters that are barely functional if they're not with other 3 meta units, and the problem is that when you'll play for longer you'll become an old player and start to feel like that too.
That's understandable I hear ya, but my point is that you wouldn't really feel that way, if the content wasn't getting artificially inflated to push them out of usability. In 2 years time, why would they ever re run a character like seele, and who would even pull her? This isn't an issue everyone cares about persay, but I think it sucks nonetheless.
Say what you guys wabna say about genshin but they handle powercreep good
Like what it took then luke 3 years to pwoercreep hu tao and hu tao is still good