By the way, thank you very much for pinning my comment in your 'What if Atatürk never existed?' Video. This is the first time a youtuber pinned my comment. So thank you.
Some additional notes: 0) The Arabization of Egypt happened earlier than the religious change, I think Egypt was largely Arab by the time of the crusades, so unless the rise of nationalism changes it with Coptic being rivied, I don't think the death of Coptic would be much different. 1) Survival of Christian Nubia 2) A more Christian and more Semitic Ethiopia which would have risen earlier without the Ottomans backing of Adal Sultanate and the Oromo migration afterwards. 3) Spain, Portugal and maybe France conquering the Maghreb without Ottomans preventing them from doing so. 3) With no Islamic power west of the Euphrates and Iranian history not changed much, the Safavids would rise in Iran and be the only Islamic power in existence as The Mughal empire wouldn't exist either, the Safavids and Babur only failed to retake central Asia from Uzbeks because of Ottoman aid to Uzbeks, which led to Babur leaving for India. Islamic world would be more Shia as a result. 4) As any scenario with no Ottoman empire, the dates of the exploration of Americas ae gonna change, which means really lucky conquests like that of the Aztecs and Incas may not happen until decades later. Leading to more natives in America.
Great notes/rebuttals as always. I've heard mixed things regarding the Ottoman contribution to Iberian exploration, it's a topic I want to do a non-althist on discussing in more detail to come to an informed opinion.
@@yokaiou5848 Those conquests weren't about technological superiority but very specific timing. Europeans were already so much more advanced than the natives that they couldn't offer much resistance if a real army attacked. Those conquests happened in a time that the native empires were just hit by disease and had no time to recover. If the conquest takes longer, the natives have time to recover their numbers and there might be situation more like the colonization of India or Africa.
@@Ali-bu6lo I think disease is overstated. The Portuguese essentially never beat any large African state in its core territory even when they had native allies. Disease alone doesn't explain that.
@@MorrisJohn-vo2vn I don't understand your comparison with Africa. Sub-Saharan Africans were immune to old world diseases. With the exception of the Khoisan. In fact, the situation was reversed as it was the European colonizers who weren't immune to horrifying African tropical diseases.
I know what you mean, but I probably won't, the video would feel too iterative of prior content I've done, and I want to try more of a variety of topics.
I honestly can’t express how amazing your work is, I love the details, the maps, the research that goes into it, and how realistic it is. I’ve seen how much your videos have improved over time and I like the kinda dry humor. This is such an underrated channel.
“The punishment from Allah” argument reminded me of how Muslims reacted to the utter domination of their countries by western powers, reactions such as the ones of the Wahhabists, clinging even harder to scripture and tradition. Great video, man 😉
@@johnythepvpgod1470 you know, you just made me realize that in order for the faith to have survived under such rule there was a certain kind of skin that you needed to have, to sustain all of this and more while still remaining to your faith. The similarity is there and it makes me think of the what-if’s hehe.
Actually, the Crusades were successful, considering that it was never the objective to conquer the Middle-East, except the coasts, in order to stop the Islamic raids on the European coasts, and the expansion of Arab-Caliphate into Europe, that's why the Renaissance in Europe began directly after the Crusades, and the peak of Reconquista.
That's a really good question. I'd assume with the relative autonomy it's going to remain more diverse in our timeline, since more sects will be allowed to exist. A Lebanon-style situation but throughout Egypt/Syria/the Levant. There wouldn't be a push for unification between non-Catholics.
the Coptic church might join the Catholic church just like the Maronites did in 1182, so maybe more eastern catholic churches in the Levant and less orthodox groups (contacts with Ethiopia could also be a way to heal the schism)
I think that due to the massive disconnect too, if not conquered, North Africa, would form its own sect of Islam, although most likely, North Africa would be reconquered in a separate crusade and rechristianized,
The Crusades were a pivotal moment in history, and this History Documentary does a great job of exploring the complexities behind their successes and failures. It's fascinating to see how these campaigns shaped both the medieval world and the relationships between different cultures and religions!
What if the Cold War had a North/South China instead of a split Korea? Probably have Tibet and the Xinjiang (I spell it right?) independent in such a scenario.
@@dr_frog01 China can't do parallels, brother! They chose natural geographies for boundaries! The Qinling and Dabie mountains, and the Huai River! Shouchun shall be the Chinese Pannumjon or the Checkpoint Charlie of this stretchy Bamboo Curtain!
Regarding the Byzantine rebound ... while I agree there will be some to what degree really depends on the Dynasties Ruling at the time ... And we have precedence from the Third Crusade in fact ... Frederic Barbarosa sacked Iconium the capital of the Sultanate of Rum and Byzantium under Isaac II Angelos was unable to take advantage of that ... Without the 4th crusade the Angelos are in power longer ... so in what state the Empire is at the time of the is debatable ... with the Angelos in charge ...
I know this is far into the future but It seems in such scenarios the crusader kingdom would continue till recent centuries, in that case, one thing that I am curios about is that with the rise of nationalism, decline of religion and the demand for an answer to the "Jewish question" due to the rise of antisemitism, would Europeans decide to send their Jewish populations to a Palestine which they control?
I presume they wouldn't wish to do it, why upset the ethnic mix that exists already with a new power block. However, like in our timeline, it's possible with 19th century nationalism the Jews choose to make the migration regardless, striking a deal like the Balfour Declaration but with the French, leading to a Lebanon-style secretarian conflict instead of the mainly Sunni Arab vs Jewish divide we see today.
I wonder, how big would the Kingdom of Jerusalem grow, and how envy would the European powers be, will they help future crusades the same as before? With the Reconquista a new language emerged, Mozarabic, mix of Castilian and Arabic, so would there be a new language from French and Arabic? But not crushed by French. Would the lesser Duchies of the Middle East be absorbed by Jerusalem or by the European powers? All I know is that the birthplace of Christianity will be Christian again one day ✝️🌞
Oh, and what they found in Tyre and the other Phoenician cities enabled the founding of Henry the Navigator’s school and the start of the age of exploration.
That was its own thing the reconquest of Iberia was happening before the 800s centuries before the crusades, they are only regarded as a crusade due to reconquest of iberia coinciding with the crusades.
Im pretty sure the muslims' reactions and emotions after the battle of hattin and the success of retaking Jerusalem after 88 years of occupation might be similar to what the Christians felt after the siege of vienna in 1683
Lmao you are American right? Do you realize that there are no "muslim" or "christian" identites exist in a manner that everyone would react to something? Seljuks didnt care about Jerusalem that much just like English didnt care about 1683. After Vienna has been saved, Austrians divided Poland with Russia meanwhile OTTOMANS protested this and thats why Turkish - Polish relations improved a lot.
lmao, was honestly thinking that myself. i enjoy making these sorta videos but I do want to push for non-Anatolian content in the future. although i'll be doing an anatolian collaboration soon
Can you make video on why Crusades started? Instead of this low effort topic that are covered millions of time, not to be rude, but people are ignorant of the fact in which islam started, man who was diddy long before diddy was born, the islamic muhammed who graped 9 years old child, commited numerous genocides, ordered endless war till forced submissions of enitre peoples and nations of the world, and on top of that he is the greatest moral exmaple for all muslims FOR ALL TIMES to follow....this all can be found easily via youtube(Nabi Asli, Robert Spencer, Apostate Prophet, Jay White, AlFadi, Orthodox Shahada) or direct sources like quran and Sahih Muslim and Sahih al-Bukhari.... muslims would mass rape, kill enslave everyone who opposed them and was not muslim, but if you are leaning left these don't exist, next topic "Persecution and destruction of Iranian Zoroastrians" or "What happened to Yemeni Christians"
Asli, Robert Spencer, Apostate Prophet, Jay White, AlFadi, Orthodox Shahada) all of them have been debunked also the genocides you mean when the jews tried to kill muhammad saw and then muhammad captruerd them and judged them on jewish law also didn;t rebeeca mary isaac at 3 to 14
If muslim are anything that you said then all Central Europe, Armenia would've been Muslim majority, why do we have Coptic Christians in Egypt and Muslim lands and why do African and Levant Christians saw Muslim as liberators and Romans and why did they crusades even massacred your fellow Christians in Jerusalem
@@izharulhaqtruthrevealed1185 they were at one point, for example in the balkans regions some places had majority muslims till they migrated into turkey after wars with european powers, what about Levant, Syria, modern Turkey, Great Armenia, Egypt, Nubia, South Arabia, Central and partf of Northen Great Iran, North Africa, medival Spain and Sicily, Eastern Causasus...all of these were ones majority Christian and nowdays most of them are 99%..fuck your religion of peace...muslims were never seen as liberatord and in case of Egypt is was pretty clear that muslims won't be better and more tolerant than Dyophisite Eastern Romans, Christians in Levant and North African were Orthodox same as Eastern Rome do your comment is low iq and ignorant(just like your pedohammed) same goes with majority of Syria...most of these states actually fought toghter with Eastern Rome against peace spreading(sarcasm) caliphates....you can spill your libmuslim bs to people who don't know but you can't to us who know, lets not talk about other regions that were of other religion becuase if we do your argument will fall from "ret***ed to straight up kill yourself" To also lower your statements to more low iq is the fact that local African Christians aided Crusades when they temporarily conquered tunisia and in other attmept also, its weird that you state that when Exarchanate of Africa stood up to muslims 66(if date of 632 was to be taken as starting date) years after peacespreaders started their bloodshed from arabia....
@@sadbuttrue-r9uThe balkan was till the Europeans commited hencide against them, 5 millions died These countries were christian and cinverted to Islam through centuries and this what any acedamic scholar would say not the thugs you mention The Muslims allowed the patriarch if alexandria to return after 13 years of exile which is mentioned in ciptic sources as well and Egypt was under occoupation of the Roman empire which was christian at the time(alhamdulilah that we got rid of that oppresive empire and it's false god) As for the local christians they are greedy they stand to whatever power that is christian against their countrymen, their dark history of beteryal and hate is known, because their spirits is dominated by false gods and evil hearts. The exarchante of Africa was already in rebellion against the Roman empire and gregory was just trying to keep his rule but he was defeated and slayed by Abdullah ibn al-Zubair
By the way, thank you very much for pinning my comment in your 'What if Atatürk never existed?' Video. This is the first time a youtuber pinned my comment. So thank you.
Peak world
Life could be a dream
Some additional notes:
0) The Arabization of Egypt happened earlier than the religious change, I think Egypt was largely Arab by the time of the crusades, so unless the rise of nationalism changes it with Coptic being rivied, I don't think the death of Coptic would be much different.
1) Survival of Christian Nubia
2) A more Christian and more Semitic Ethiopia which would have risen earlier without the Ottomans backing of Adal Sultanate and the Oromo migration afterwards.
3) Spain, Portugal and maybe France conquering the Maghreb without Ottomans preventing them from doing so.
3) With no Islamic power west of the Euphrates and Iranian history not changed much, the Safavids would rise in Iran and be the only Islamic power in existence as The Mughal empire wouldn't exist either, the Safavids and Babur only failed to retake central Asia from Uzbeks because of Ottoman aid to Uzbeks, which led to Babur leaving for India. Islamic world would be more Shia as a result.
4) As any scenario with no Ottoman empire, the dates of the exploration of Americas ae gonna change, which means really lucky conquests like that of the Aztecs and Incas may not happen until decades later. Leading to more natives in America.
Great notes/rebuttals as always. I've heard mixed things regarding the Ottoman contribution to Iberian exploration, it's a topic I want to do a non-althist on discussing in more detail to come to an informed opinion.
Those lucky conquests might get luckier since tech might be more advanced. Like Greek Fire and Indian rockets being used.
@@yokaiou5848 Those conquests weren't about technological superiority but very specific timing. Europeans were already so much more advanced than the natives that they couldn't offer much resistance if a real army attacked.
Those conquests happened in a time that the native empires were just hit by disease and had no time to recover. If the conquest takes longer, the natives have time to recover their numbers and there might be situation more like the colonization of India or Africa.
@@Ali-bu6lo I think disease is overstated. The Portuguese essentially never beat any large African state in its core territory even when they had native allies.
Disease alone doesn't explain that.
@@MorrisJohn-vo2vn I don't understand your comparison with Africa. Sub-Saharan Africans were immune to old world diseases. With the exception of the Khoisan. In fact, the situation was reversed as it was the European colonizers who weren't immune to horrifying African tropical diseases.
Part 2 needed.
Indeed!
I know what you mean, but I probably won't, the video would feel too iterative of prior content I've done, and I want to try more of a variety of topics.
@@HistorysInfluence please bro
I honestly can’t express how amazing your work is, I love the details, the maps, the research that goes into it, and how realistic it is. I’ve seen how much your videos have improved over time and I like the kinda dry humor. This is such an underrated channel.
That's probably the kindest comment I've ever read. Thanks mate, I really appreciate it, and how it highlights my focuses (dry humour included lol).
“The punishment from Allah” argument reminded me of how Muslims reacted to the utter domination of their countries by western powers, reactions such as the ones of the Wahhabists, clinging even harder to scripture and tradition. Great video, man 😉
Thats exactly how orthodox Christians talk about the ottoman occupation or anytime something bad happened, im an ex btw
@@johnythepvpgod1470 you know, you just made me realize that in order for the faith to have survived under such rule there was a certain kind of skin that you needed to have, to sustain all of this and more while still remaining to your faith. The similarity is there and it makes me think of the what-if’s hehe.
I'm pretty sure the Jews felt the same thing when Rome invaded Judea. Christians, too, when Muslims conquered them.
Nah Christian Conquest were more bloodiest than any other religion @@ibrahimmustafa2481
@@johnythepvpgod1470 why did you leave the faith?
Actually, the Crusades were successful, considering that it was never the objective to conquer the Middle-East, except the coasts, in order to stop the Islamic raids on the European coasts, and the expansion of Arab-Caliphate into Europe, that's why the Renaissance in Europe began directly after the Crusades, and the peak of Reconquista.
Do you think this would result in more or less diversity of belief within the Eastern Christian groups?
That's a really good question. I'd assume with the relative autonomy it's going to remain more diverse in our timeline, since more sects will be allowed to exist. A Lebanon-style situation but throughout Egypt/Syria/the Levant. There wouldn't be a push for unification between non-Catholics.
the Coptic church might join the Catholic church just like the Maronites did in 1182, so maybe more eastern catholic churches in the Levant and less orthodox groups (contacts with Ethiopia could also be a way to heal the schism)
I think that due to the massive disconnect too, if not conquered, North Africa, would form its own sect of Islam, although most likely, North Africa would be reconquered in a separate crusade and rechristianized,
What if there was a Crusade during the Gunpowder/ Empire era , may have saved Europe from internal conflicts for a bit.
The Crusades were a pivotal moment in history, and this History Documentary does a great job of exploring the complexities behind their successes and failures. It's fascinating to see how these campaigns shaped both the medieval world and the relationships between different cultures and religions!
Great video! For your next one I could suggest, what if emperor Majorian wasnt killed?
Great idea tbh, adding that to my shortlist of ideas
Facinating video! Great job👏
the hell was that intro to richard the lionheart lmfao
amazing idea. your channel always has great ideas!
Thanks man
Now, What if the Baltic Crusases failed?.
The world would have a better Renaissance.
Suggestion: What if Napoleón III won the franco-prussian war?
What of we got a Medieval or Late Antique Assyrian Empire.
What if the Cold War had a North/South China instead of a split Korea?
Probably have Tibet and the Xinjiang (I spell it right?) independent in such a scenario.
you spelled Xinjiang (East Turkestan/Dong Tujieguo) wrong!
A split China would still mean a split Korea too!
@@shinsenshogun900 38th parallel china would hurt my eyes.
@@dr_frog01 China can't do parallels, brother! They chose natural geographies for boundaries!
The Qinling and Dabie mountains, and the Huai River! Shouchun shall be the Chinese Pannumjon or the Checkpoint Charlie of this stretchy Bamboo Curtain!
Regarding the Byzantine rebound ... while I agree there will be some to what degree really depends on the Dynasties Ruling at the time ...
And we have precedence from the Third Crusade in fact ... Frederic Barbarosa sacked Iconium the capital of the Sultanate of Rum and Byzantium under Isaac II Angelos was unable to take advantage of that ...
Without the 4th crusade the Angelos are in power longer ... so in what state the Empire is at the time of the is debatable ... with the Angelos in charge ...
What if The Sea People Had Discover the Americas ?
Anything sea peoples would be awesome
@@newbornviking9721 we wouldn't have any records of it.
What if Edward Longshanks (or Edward II) succeeded in conquering Scotland?
Great video
the Outremer
Monsieur Z sent me! Great video
If the first King of Jerusalem didn’t die and took over Egypt.
the show off 2 historical legends sultan salahadin and king Richard the lion heart of England
Very good video
Amazing video, here's a weird idea: I know the early US was very much anti-colonial but what if they colonized Morocco during the Barbary Wars?
Love your content! Thanks For this ❤❤❤❤
Crusades at the Levant and egypt and even anatolia could have been successful just if crusaders weren't so hubris and poorly organized 👌
Potentially see Christianity being much more widespread throughout Northern Africa, not just Egypt.
A better world... 🥲
I still have hope that West Asia and Central Asia will be rechristianised in the coming century.
I have a fun idea, as a sequel to the Ottomans being expelled from Europe, do What If Poland Conquered Russia? More Poland!
Hello. Mister Z sent me.
🔥🔥
Viva la Outremer!
What if europe was muslim next video ?
Then, Colonization won't happen
I know this is far into the future but It seems in such scenarios the crusader kingdom would continue till recent centuries, in that case, one thing that I am curios about is that with the rise of nationalism, decline of religion and the demand for an answer to the "Jewish question" due to the rise of antisemitism, would Europeans decide to send their Jewish populations to a Palestine which they control?
I presume they wouldn't wish to do it, why upset the ethnic mix that exists already with a new power block. However, like in our timeline, it's possible with 19th century nationalism the Jews choose to make the migration regardless, striking a deal like the Balfour Declaration but with the French, leading to a Lebanon-style secretarian conflict instead of the mainly Sunni Arab vs Jewish divide we see today.
I wonder, how big would the Kingdom of Jerusalem grow, and how envy would the European powers be, will they help future crusades the same as before? With the Reconquista a new language emerged, Mozarabic, mix of Castilian and Arabic, so would there be a new language from French and Arabic? But not crushed by French. Would the lesser Duchies of the Middle East be absorbed by Jerusalem or by the European powers? All I know is that the birthplace of Christianity will be Christian again one day ✝️🌞
The crusades DID succeed. Retook the entire Iberian peninsula for Christendom.
Oh, and what they found in Tyre and the other Phoenician cities enabled the founding of Henry the Navigator’s school and the start of the age of exploration.
That was its own thing the reconquest of Iberia was happening before the 800s centuries before the crusades, they are only regarded as a crusade due to reconquest of iberia coinciding with the crusades.
Im pretty sure the muslims' reactions and emotions after the battle of hattin and the success of retaking Jerusalem after 88 years of occupation might be similar to what the Christians felt after the siege of vienna in 1683
Lmao you are American right? Do you realize that there are no "muslim" or "christian" identites exist in a manner that everyone would react to something? Seljuks didnt care about Jerusalem that much just like English didnt care about 1683. After Vienna has been saved, Austrians divided Poland with Russia meanwhile OTTOMANS protested this and thats why Turkish - Polish relations improved a lot.
VGH as the kids say
I hope this isn't some controversial slur i'm heart-reacting, lol
@@HistorysInfluence it's just ugh with a latinesque u
🎉
God will's it
more byz slop!
lmao, was honestly thinking that myself. i enjoy making these sorta videos but I do want to push for non-Anatolian content in the future. although i'll be doing an anatolian collaboration soon
Byzantine woulld probally fall to the timurids
🇦🇺
Keep dreaming lol. They got whooped and still hundreds of years later still acting cool while whining at the same time.
My favourite crusades are 1204, 1396, and 1444. Thanks for weakening the Eastern Romans for us 🦾🇹🇷
how much is the shwarma boss
@DoktorKleiner give me your soul, and it may be as valuable as 1 shwarma
Can you make video on why Crusades started? Instead of this low effort topic that are covered millions of time, not to be rude, but people are ignorant of the fact in which islam started, man who was diddy long before diddy was born, the islamic muhammed who graped 9 years old child, commited numerous genocides, ordered endless war till forced submissions of enitre peoples and nations of the world, and on top of that he is the greatest moral exmaple for all muslims FOR ALL TIMES to follow....this all can be found easily via youtube(Nabi Asli, Robert Spencer, Apostate Prophet, Jay White, AlFadi, Orthodox Shahada) or direct sources like quran and Sahih Muslim and Sahih al-Bukhari.... muslims would mass rape, kill enslave everyone who opposed them and was not muslim, but if you are leaning left these don't exist, next topic "Persecution and destruction of Iranian Zoroastrians" or "What happened to Yemeni Christians"
Asli, Robert Spencer, Apostate Prophet, Jay White, AlFadi, Orthodox Shahada) all of them have been debunked also the genocides you mean when the jews tried to kill muhammad saw and then muhammad captruerd them and judged them on jewish law also didn;t rebeeca mary isaac at 3 to 14
If muslim are anything that you said then all Central Europe, Armenia would've been Muslim majority, why do we have Coptic Christians in Egypt and Muslim lands and why do African and Levant Christians saw Muslim as liberators and Romans and why did they crusades even massacred your fellow Christians in Jerusalem
@@izharulhaqtruthrevealed1185 they were at one point, for example in the balkans regions some places had majority muslims till they migrated into turkey after wars with european powers, what about Levant, Syria, modern Turkey, Great Armenia, Egypt, Nubia, South Arabia, Central and partf of Northen Great Iran, North Africa, medival Spain and Sicily, Eastern Causasus...all of these were ones majority Christian and nowdays most of them are 99%..fuck your religion of peace...muslims were never seen as liberatord and in case of Egypt is was pretty clear that muslims won't be better and more tolerant than Dyophisite Eastern Romans, Christians in Levant and North African were Orthodox same as Eastern Rome do your comment is low iq and ignorant(just like your pedohammed) same goes with majority of Syria...most of these states actually fought toghter with Eastern Rome against peace spreading(sarcasm) caliphates....you can spill your libmuslim bs to people who don't know but you can't to us who know, lets not talk about other regions that were of other religion becuase if we do your argument will fall from "ret***ed to straight up kill yourself"
To also lower your statements to more low iq is the fact that local African Christians aided Crusades when they temporarily conquered tunisia and in other attmept also, its weird that you state that when Exarchanate of Africa stood up to muslims 66(if date of 632 was to be taken as starting date) years after peacespreaders started their bloodshed from arabia....
@@sadbuttrue-r9uThe balkan was till the Europeans commited hencide against them, 5 millions died
These countries were christian and cinverted to Islam through centuries and this what any acedamic scholar would say not the thugs you mention
The Muslims allowed the patriarch if alexandria to return after 13 years of exile which is mentioned in ciptic sources as well and Egypt was under occoupation of the Roman empire which was christian at the time(alhamdulilah that we got rid of that oppresive empire and it's false god)
As for the local christians they are greedy they stand to whatever power that is christian against their countrymen, their dark history of beteryal and hate is known, because their spirits is dominated by false gods and evil hearts.
The exarchante of Africa was already in rebellion against the Roman empire and gregory was just trying to keep his rule but he was defeated and slayed by Abdullah ibn al-Zubair
You do know that is also a super covered topic my guy. 😂 also it’s a fun video don’t get your panties all wet because of a bad date night.
There is no what if.