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INAV: Why don't my control surfaces move much?
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- Опубліковано 7 сер 2024
- 🔗 www.MrD-RC.com 🔗 / mrd_rc
The question of control surface throws pops up quite a lot in the INAV Fixed Wing Group, as well as elsewhere. Before we can tackle if there is enough throw, we first need to look at how to properly measure throw with INAV. TL;DW, use MANUAL mode only.
In this video we look at why the throws can be very different in different flight modes. This also explains why throws can only be measured in manual. But, if the throws look fine in manual, but small in acro; will this be ok for the maiden? I show how you can make a little change to give you more confidence that it will be.
✈️ Contents ✈️
00:00 Introduction
00:29 The golden rule! Always test your throws in manual
01:45 Why is there more throw in manual compared to acro and angle?
01:56 How the servos are controlled in manual mode
02:34 How the servos are controlled in acro mode
04:22 How the servos are controlled in angle mode and it's derivatives
05:20 What not to do!
06:16 Where do you adjust the control surface movement?
07:49 How can I get throws closer to manual for the maiden?
10:23 The maiden and performing the autotune
13:43 What if I get 255 on the FeedForward?
14:31 Does autotune automatically save?
16:52 Conclusion
Thank you for watching this video. Time is precious, so I hope that you got some benefit from this video. If you have any questions, please leave a comment and I'll do my best to answer. Please try to keep questions relevant to the video in, as they may also help others who have the same question.
✈️ In this video ✈️
🔗 Marc's INAV tuning video: • Manual PID Tuning on a...
🔗 The stick commands guide: www.mrd-rc.com/tutorials-tool...
🔗 INAV Fixed Wing Group: inavfixedwinggroup.com/
⚙️ FrSky TANDEM X20S Transmitter: bit.ly/MrD_3x6n6JL
⚙️ SonicModell Mini AR Wing: bit.ly/MrD_3aP4NhE
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Thank you for your time, and don't forget to fly it like you stole it!
This is a MUST watch for every fixed wing beginner, love the detailed information
Thanks. I’m glad the video was helpful 👍🏻
This is the best explanation and complete too. Now I understand what I'm doing. Many thanks👍
Glad it helped 👍🏻
Excellent video Mr D. I learned stuff again.
Thanks Andrew, glad you enjoyed it. Nice to see you getting out on the cliffs too. That Phoenix Evolution looked like fun.
Very well explained. Thank you so much for the work on this issue!
Thanks JD 👍
Thank you so much Darren for all you do for this hobby. I genuinely appreciate you brother!
Thank you. I'm glad folks find the videos helpful.
Great Answer. This issue startled me. My Rudder movement was less than 2mm. Keep up the good work.
Hi Darren.
I'm the guy who commented on the Facebook group about raising the value in the mixer.
I know that you're a knowledgeable individual, and I won't argue with you, but I'd appreciciate some further clarification about "oversaturating" the servo.
I have a wing that even after performing autotune several times was alot less responsive with Inav than it had been when I was flying it with straight pwm signals.
after some experimenting, I changed aileron values of "50/-50" to "60/-60" and elevator to "70/-70" and it flew better. I then tried "80/-80" on ailerons and "100/-100" for elevator and it feels much more like it did before installing the FC.
After watching this video, I am going to go back into configurator and try it your way to see if I can get the desired results, but I have been flying it this way for over a year, and never noticed anything that I would describe as oversaturation.
Over-saturation is when you have so much commanded input that the output cannot perform the tasks asked. This affects multitask control surfaces, such as elevons or ruddervators. For example, on that VTail, over-saturation would be using full elevator, then trying to add yaw, but there not being enough movement in the servo to perform the yaw. What you would end up with is both ruddervators moving for the pitch, and only one moving for the yaw. So you don’t get the full commanded control. That is why it is good practice to total 100 in the mixer for each control surface.
The lowering the weight on the ailerons results in less resolution/precision from the servos.
With your unresponsive wing. If it is still less responsive in manual, you could go to the outputs page in INAV and boost the output rate to 120. This will move the servos further. Maybe closer to what you had with a pure receiver. It may just be that from the radio, it is sending 988 microseconds to 2012 microseconds. But INAV will be sending 1000 to 2000 microseconds range. So there is a couple of percent difference there.
Non-manual modes will be tuned to rates, 80% of manual by autotune by default. This is to make sure the stabilisation has room to work.
Never stop learning
I've learned something today!
Thanks Steve. I'm glad a lot of people have found this one useful :)
Good advice, helped me a lot. Tanks Darren!
Glad it helped
Excellent video!!! Cheers Darren!
Thanks Nick. I’m glad it was helpful 👍🏻
Thank you for explaining ❤
You’re welcome 😊
Just getting my feet wet with Inav and so far things are going very well thanks to your knowledge and great videos.
Great to hear! I hope you enjoy your flights with INAV 👍🏻
that radio is freaking sick i need to get a better one
Thanks Mark. That is the FrSKY X20S TANDEM transmitter.
Thank you for perfectly explained video!! And big laugh to Tyler Durden style hello to Henrik....😄
Thanks. Yeah, can't help but have a little laugh with Henrik about his ASW-28 fetish.
I just wondered where the flight controller can store these pid values gained during flight ?
The fc is not always connected to power and has no buffer battery. So the fc must have a non volatil memory but I have not heard about or simply missed that.
Hi Darren. First of all I would like to congratulate you on a fantastic channel. I have just purchased an x20 so your videos are being an enormous help. I have one problem at the moment that I can not find the answer to anywhere. How do you get rid of the annoying beeps every time you select something, I notice that your transmitter doesn't do this?
Hi Dave. I'm glad the videos are helping you out.
Sure. If you go to the System > General screen there is an Audio section. The mode allows you to change what types of events make sounds. I have mine on default. The other thing that I have done is assigned the volume to my slider. So in the videos, if the red slider is all the way down, the transmitter won't make any sounds at all.
Thank you for your very useful videos for a beginner with inav…one question: I connected an extra servo for camera pan on channel 7 on the servo pins of the F405 wing but the servo doesn’t move…nethertheless, on the rx page of inav, it’s moving…
Such good info. I've been doing the tune all wrong. Does the walksnail record the OSD?
I saw it in other videos. But mine didn't. Have to check Settings probably.
Thanks Ruby. Yes, with the latest firmware it records the OSD as a separate file. There's a tool to convert that in to something usable at github.com/kirek007/ws-osd-py/releases/
What I really like about the tool is you can use any font set and it can create the OSD as a PNG sequence. So you can just import that in to the video editing package as an overly. That opens up so many editing possibilities.
Thanks for the very informative video. I just wish there were members with your skills in my flying club who could help with the steep learning iNav learning curve that I'm struggling with.
You’re welcome. I’m glad the videos help. Just think though. You’ll be that guy in the club, who can help others in the future.
Nice work Darren.
I have the FWIG radio set up on my tx16s
If I hold up the momentary switch for a few seconds it says save. Is this the save for the auto tune?
Yes, that is basically a shortcut for the stick commands.
Hi Darren, interesting. I have another problem, I seem to have negative expo input (almost full travel close to the centre position of the stick and very little difference at the extreme throw. How can this be reversed, please
Hi. Can you kindly help with INAV connection with frsky R9 mx. I am trying to connect with f. Port and getting no signal. Using Matek 405wse. Thanks
This is pretty straight forward. But there are a couple of things that can trip you up.
1. Connect the "Inverted S.Port" pad on the R9 MX to TX2 on the F405-WSE. You should also connect GND to G and VIN to 4V5.
2. On the transmitter, in the receiver options. Make sure the telemetry type is set to F.Port.
3. In INAV, on the Configuration page. Disable "CPU Based Serial Ports". When this is done, you should not see Soft Serial in the ports page.
4. In INAV, on the receiver page. Set the protocol to FPORT and set protocol inverted to ON.
Then is should work.
@@MrD Thankyou.
No dice stil no up elevator in launch mode. Can’t figure it out inav 5.0.1 maytek f765 HELP !!!
Hello Darren,
I have FC Aocoda-RC V.2 firmware in INAV 6.0.0 Stable, but all no signal servo at my mapping AIRPLANE?
I had a strange issue with my Swordfish recently I have continuously trim servos set & the last flight was perfect & disarmed as normal. When I went flying the next week I connected the battery & all the control surfaces were all miles out at centre even in manual. Only thing I could do was to connect to the configurator & readjust back to 1500us for each surface. Any ideas what happened? Thanks
we can't have any trims on the radio if we're going to use any of the navigation modes? Where is airmode in inav6 do I need it turned on still?
No, you should never use radio trims. You can in manual. But you should mechanically adjust them after the flight and zero the trims.
Airmode is usually permanently enabled. If will only show on the modes page if that is disabled. But to be honest. There’s no advantage to disabling it. The default settings are fine.
@@MrD so default is ok for my ASW28 then. I guess I just have to do an auto tune when the wind is calm
anyone know the throws for ASW28 they aren't in the manual
What’s up man maybe this is why I don’t get any up elevator on xuav cloud. When I activate launch mode I get no movement out of elevator. Never seen this before usually no problems but this was my first v-tail. I also had a? When u first tune a plane do u think it’s better to have auto trim on a switch then later use continuous trim or do u even use continuous trim I have it active on all planes but think it make thinks kinda confusing cause I’ve experienced a slight roll then switch to manual and if flys great. So it seems that if you fly into the wind then turn around the plane tends to roll but then will fix it’s self but u have to have and off don’t touch stick so if u didn’t let trims compensate then u get some crazy midpoints
Hey, Darren! I have been trying to compile some custom firmware for a Matek F405WING controller to remap pin S2 for servo usage in order to add a camera pan gimbal. I'm also wondering if there is a way to remap the LED strip pad to be a servo PWM output so I could have a pan/tilt gimbal? I'm all out of PWM outputs and have only used 2 UARTS and an analog fpv system. I have been trying to compile firmware for the 6.0.0-FP1 release because that is what I'm trying to test. My model is a Volantex Phoenix 2400 configured with full-span ailerons and crow mixing. I'm running Windows and trying to compile with MSYS2. Even changing a base parameter seems to make the compile process fail. I have spent 2 days trying to figure this out. Any help would be most appreciated!
You may not even need to make your own target to do this. There is a 9th PWM output on the F405-WING and WSE. They're just not on the servo rails. That 9th PWM would give you the PAN servo.
To get the tilt. If you are using a standard ESC on the standard ESC protocol. You can use `set output_mode = SERVOS` which will set all PWM outputs to be servos. Then in the INAV mixer, add 2 to all the current mixes. Then add a mix numbered 1 which used Stabilised Throttle. Then add a mix numbered 2 with the RC input for the tilt channel. That should work, and keep the elevator on output S3, so you don't have to reprogram the whole mixer.
@@MrD that is exactly what I needed to hear! Is the 9th pwm output on a solder pad somewhere centrally on the board?
Edit: I found it. Thanks!
@@MrD after trying this, the servos work correctly. The throttle is not dependent on arming status, though, and stabilized throttle messes up the ESC calibration every time a battery is plugged in. I assume there is a way to set that stuff up in the programming tab, but I'm at a loss now. I also want to use navigation modes, as this is a long-range build. If the throttle needs to be set to "RC Throttle" rather than "Stabilized Throttle", I fear that it will not behave correctly if the plane failsafes and tries to return to home. Do you have any other ideas for how to set the S1 input to function as a motor rather than a servo via global variable or logic command?
@@MrD since "Servo" mode doesn't disable the motor when disarmed, would "stabilized throttle" input on the motor still work autonomously for navigation modes? If so, I can just add a special function throttle cut when my arm switch is disarmed. Is there an "arming status" telemetry signal from the flight controller? That would be preferable to switch position. A simple fix would be rewriting the INAV code to make a programming function to link "Stabilized Throttle" input to arming status, or making "Stabilized Throttle" input dependant on arming status unless there is a programming if/then scenario that would override that function when configured that way. I'm still hopeful, but I think it is something to look into. I'll open a support ticket in github once I figure out how to simplify the issue.
Sorry I’ve not replied. I wanted to check this out for myself. But have been busy with final bits of code for INAV 6.0.
Stabilised Throttle should be the correct setting to use. That will work with the navigation modes. However, as far as I’m concerned; it should need arming too. If this is not the case, that sounds like a bug to me.