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Why INAV climbs rapidly in Altitude Hold mode?
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- Опубліковано 7 сер 2024
- Support my work / pawelspychalski
In some cases, when you enable Altitude Hold or Position Hold mode in INAV, the multirotor drone, instead of holding the altitude, climbs rapidly. Skyrockets, you might say. The popular myth is that this is caused by the faulty barometer. The truth is, that it's usually caused by extensive vibrations picked by the accelerometer. This video explains the process and gives some clues on how to improve the Altitude Hold performance.
0:00 Intro
0:29 What is causing the rapid climb?
2:05 Blackbox proof
3:49 Something is vibrating
4:28 How to fix it?
6:02 Outro
Excellent tips, Pawel! Thanks a lot! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
exactly what was my problem and the exact solution to this. I was facing this problem of quad going high in the sky like rocket whenever I set position hold mode in my radio. My fc was loosely fit in the mesh of wires in my frame and this would have caused false reading to accelerometer. Then I fit my FC firmly in the frame now the problem is gone and I am very happy with that. Thank for posting this video. 👍👍. You saved my quad.
Thanks for the clear explanation Pawel
Thank you, that makes sense to my last crash, my propellers was not the one I use usually
I was having this problem on a new 3.5" build. i tried soft mounts, i went over it top to bottom tightening bolts and bundling wires. same problem flight after flight, then i figured its got to be in the pid's, i lowered velocity z from 100 to 50 and its holding steady, no more shootoffs. i even got to fly around and land without it doing something crazy. if i remember right, in an older version they weren't so high.
This is really interesting. I’m having similar issues with a 3.5 build. I’ll look into the pids like you said, thanks for that!
Thanks for this. I have lowered my velocity z from 100 to 50 and will see if this reduces or eliminates the "shootoffs".
It worked @sinisternm! There is a good amount of "drifting" in the altitude while althold is engaged. I am increasing the velocity z for the Barometer & Sonar/Altitude up from 50 to 75 to see if the altitude "drifting" becomes less without shooting to the moon.
@@IAmTheCraftsman im glad to hear it. its been a while since my last flight, i think mine was drifting a bit too, but the shootoff problem did go away. i think my matekf405te flight controller was an issue too. still no dshot support as far as i know. i think i had to switch to betaflight for dshot with rpm filtering and it flew like a dream. no althold but rth worked fine.
Thanks for this video, my attitude hold was shooting like a rocket, after watching this video I realized my flight controller was too tight to the frame so I just loosen it a bit to have a little bit of flexibility and that solved my problem. My attitude hold works like magic. Thanks alot👍
would love to see what a clean noise-free trace looks like. I'm continuously refining my builds but really don't know when I have reach the ideal "noise free build"
Thank you for the clarification
I fly fix wing and when I arm my motor and function servos in manual mode servos act normal but if I put it in stabilize mode while armed the servos do not return to center, but soon as I disarm the servos return to center in stabilize mode?
One wonder if in iNav 3.0.2 (Matek F743 Wing Version 2) its possible to use a Cli command to make RX4 Receive Sbuss signal???
awesome, you should do a video on how to use the blackbox explorer to fine tune basic stuff
How about adding a bias to the baro? So it will be like weighed average with baro having more weight and accel being last.
This is the exact same reason why i left INAV and started using ardupilot exact same hardware not even prop changed ,which worked great to this day in inav i lowerd the throttle too much to compensate for skyrocketed that it crashed into the bushes luckily nothing damaged and next day used ardupilot and didn't have to tune at all worked flawlessly at defaults pid and settings
That's awesome
Which flight controller
Which flight controller
@@khemrajdeulkar9803 omnibus f4 pro v2
Hi pawel, I’m switching to inav all my midrange quads, in the smaller ( 5.5”) Inhave this same problem but the build seems very clean ( Chris Rosser Aosrc 5.5” ) I have double capacitors on esc and FC Vbat , the FC got a plastic cover that protects baro from turbolence. Could it be the icm42688p chip that is too noisy in general ?
*Chris Rosser liked this video*
Well explained!
thank you
Is there a possibility to control the sensor fusion composites? Or maybe to smooth out the acc readings with a kalman or lowpass?
Yes, this sounds like viable software solution for the problem. Good idea!
Wondering if hover throttle being set higher than needed for hover could be a contributing factor?
Is interesting that tendency is to climb, not drop or poorly hold altitude.
Everytime I setup a new quad I get this behavior with default settings. Once I set the hover setting correct it works fine so I agree with you. Of course that doesn't mean that the vibration isn't causing it when the hover is off. That's been my experience.
Hi did you know why INAV cannot detect my M181 Walksnail Compas?
I already plug into the socket to my Speedybee f405wing (SCL &SDA already connected)
I heard that if I want to use Altitude Hold feature in INAV I have to activate the Compass
there needs to be some DSP applied to this accelerometer data before INAV uses it then. it shouldn't be disabled by vibrations
Why dont my DJI quads (Phantom and FPV Drone) have this problem? They hold altitude perfectly even with a damaged prop.
Hi Pawel,
Can you tecommend a nice quad for long flight times , with decent GPS? Really want to try inav instead of betaflight. And think a lot of features would suit a lr drone well (or perhaps a not too big wing ). I'd like to do some waypoint missions with a drone that is as quiet/ stealthy as possible (analog vtx btw)
Why not this? fpv-shopping-list.com/pirx7
@@FPVUniversity oh! That looks interesting! Thank you, going to watch all your videos about this one !
nice video ! i have the opposite problem. When I activate the ph my quod quickly loses altitude and I have to recover immediately with the command of the gas. why?! thank you .
check with blackbox log how altuitude estimator works
I had this happen in rth whe i was at home point, instead of landing it went full speed straight up...... but positiom hold didnt shoot up ,....
Hi, Well done very interesting. However how about fitting a Lidar sensor? Are there any instructions for iNav 6 fitting and set up of a serial Lidar. Any help would be helpfull.
Regards John
Lidars that are available for the hobby are either big or pricy or with very limited range
Thanks for that Pawel. I must point out however that Lidars 12 meter range are about the same size, weight and price as Optical flow sensors. Yet you endorse optical flow in at least one video why ?
Buy Lidar and OpFlow are 2 completely different things. Lidar measures distance. OpFlow measures angular velocity of background
Thank you for your reply. Yes I do know the difference. My point was you dismissed a very accurate device for measuring Height on the grounds of cost, size and range, all these factors you seem to "live with" when considering Optical Flow. Not a criticism merely I point of logical thought Thanks for all your time involved with iNAV without you and the other Devs we would have a lot less to fly. Regards John
Is it possible to set inav to ignore the accelerometer for altitude and just rely on GPS or baro?
Yes plz help I've also same problem
Did you find the solution? I need the exactly same thing - forget the accel for altitude calculation and just use my rangefinder
I use matek f722px, I coated the FC until cover barometer. My friend said don't to it because make your barometer error then I remove the coating. The problem is my alt mdpl is fine but my alt is minus, when I fly to high the alt is more minus, can't hover or RTH because he say adjusting altitude until my drone to the moon. For the final question is my barometer is error? can I use external barometer to fix it?
There is a small hole in the barometer. You need to stick a pin gently into the hole to clear it . Be careful not to go in too far! Other than that you can use a different external barometer but it must be in the list supported by the FC. Hope this helps.
@@philipclarke8838 thanks before bro, can I ask again? I buy external barometer which same type with internal barometer, how to setting in GUI?
@@SmudgeFPV In BF you could set definitions in CLI. In INAV you have to modify the source code.
@@emtbbam2895 how to modify code? I'm trying in google can't find anything, can you help me?
@@SmudgeFPV Oh, okay. So in this case I do not recommend to go this way. Until you are a developer with a bunch of experience.
Why not remove accelerometer reading from the calculation?
My first idea: Change the code. Found the right place but not having a good solution right now. Does not shoot anymore but flying was a mess in this mode.
Why not filtering accelerometer ? Why not evaluate error using long term altidute reported by gps ?
GPS does not have the expected precision.
In Arduplane gyro setup to .025 for 5inch and for 10inch it .035
what is the difference between altitude hold and position hold? i cant find a clear answer
One holds the altitude and the other holds position and/or altitude?
Hi Pawel its a good introduction but Id like to know about the PID tuning Process for Barometer mainly Velocity Z and Position Z on your next video.
There is no need to tune it. At least I never found a reason to tune it. If you have problem with altitude hold, it's usually due to different problems, not this one
@@FPVUniversity thanks, and in Advance Tuning what about the mid. throttle for ALTHOLD and Hover throttle? and changes to it ? as my drone gets jumpy when set as 1500uS default im using INAV 5.0.0 and a F411 FC
@@FPVUniversitycan you also review the INAV 5.0.0 which recently came out possible issues to watch out for
This is odd because I have a 450 quad that has had Inav on it for two years and I never had the sudden altitude climb until I updated firmware. I changed nothing on the quad and the props are new and balanced.
Thank you for the advice. No chance for Bumblebee V3. Have to switch back to BF.
I have a Matek H743-slim v3. It's impossible to set correctly because it is using ICM426XX gyro.
did you ever solve withn h743
@@pornzi No, replaced it.
Should vibrations not average out? Actually, you can never get rid of them completely.
No, at one point they no longer average out. Filters are not symmetrical. Both INAV internal and hardware internal. On top of that, when you hit the ACC resonance frequency, the hell breaks loose
I had in the "Outputs" tab "Motors IDLE power [%]": 15.0! It had to be not more than 5%! 15% was so much that my copter no longer descends. (INAV 6.0, Chimera 7 1800kv)
Why inav can't to filter that vibrations?
It can, to some extend. But getting rid of all the noise from saturated ACC is just impossible
And what should be the drone climbing slowly
This logic makes no sense. Your barometer and GPS signals are not affected by vibration .. only the accelerometer, yet your code is relying heavily on the false readings from the accelerometer, rather than the barometer and GPS which are more in agreement regarding the craft's true altitude. With this situation a red flag should be thrown up instead of powering the craft further and further into the heavens. An error should be sounded when there is such a huge disagreement between the 3 altitude sensor devices. I realize these 3 devices do not react to altitude changes at the same speed as each other, but surely some better fusion algorithm (yet to present itself) could solve this problem. Before powering the motors into the sky, a check of the GPS and barometer should always be made first to see what they think. If they come back and say " not a good idea" then just flag the error. I realize there may not be enough time to ask the GPS and Baro for their opinions, but to blindly rocket into space is simply crazy !
No, it makes no sense to you. Makes perfect sense when you think about it slightly longer
Does it rth without barometer?
Can but should not. GPS is not reliable enough for altitude readouts to have a stable and safe flight
@@FPVUniversity Thanks.
This is why I use i nav for wings and planes and beta flight for quads I tried I have on my drone had nothing but problems always had to recalibrate it it turned into more problems than it was really worth it was better off to just put beta flight on my drones and inav on all my planes
I think you compare completely different thing. BF has no position hold so this comparison is greatyly flawed
My 10 year old Ardupilot based 10 inch quad with hell lot of vibrations (mount a camera and you get jello galore!) does Alt-hold like a boss. It runs on an age old APM2.8. Alt-hold, RTL, missions, everything just works and they work great. Zero config, zero confusion for the user. Just enable the mode. So... when Betaflight and INAV talks about a lot of theory on why the drone falls from sky or why it shoots up with Alt-hold, for me it sounds like poor implementations. I may be wrong though.
Why the software just can't fix this problem?! What about giving priority to the barometer data? If the difference between the barometer and the accelerometer is greater than x, then disregard the accelerometer...
You are also telling us to soft mount the FC and motors. OK, but doesn't that make the whole drone more flexible? What does it matter if you have stiff arms when you mount your motors on a neoprene base?
Let's try with an anaology. Your car has low pressure in one tire and it pulls to the side. Do you fix the problem by inflating the tire or ask cars software to compensate?
If there is a sponge on the barometer, remove it.
Thats is probably one of the worst advices in the history of advices
but this should help? inav_w_z_baro_p So we can change it so we rely on altimeter more. Right?