@@NeedItMakeItI haven't tried myself, but IIRC from videos I've seen a vacuum cleaner has enough suction. The technique is often used to stabilize broken bones for transport to the hospital. There are probably videos about it. Search for vacuum splint. The beads are the same kind as used in bean bags, though maybe a little smaller.. Not sure.
@@NeedItMakeIt I've not done it myself (I happened to remember from another UA-cam video) however, I think even just the little manual suction things you use for vacuum sealing food (or in my case filament!) could be sufficient.
polystyrene balls would shrink when you pull the vacuum though wouldnt they? I'd go for something more solid so that the shape doesnt change when the vacuum is pulled but they stay locked in position by the vacuum
The thing that annoys me most about those 3dprinted products is that they are monstrously expensive and aren't even custom. Which is the whole thing that makes 3d printing actually win over traditional methods.
That's because people like profit. And as for the custom parts, many of the 3d printed products aren't made on request, but rather printed in bulk, which leaves no customization to the end user. There are printing shops that do print on order, and allow you to change some stuff, but even then sometimes it's too much of a hassle if the customization is something big, meaning the people running the shop waste their time adding custom options, which means they can print less other stuff if everyone does it.
Printing something yourself is cheap, but having something printer for you is expensive. Why? Well 1 they have to make a profit, when you add up shipping costs and how long it may take to post process something it starts to add up. 2 not every print is successful. 3 not every print works in certain orientations. At home of you have to print it 3 times before you get it right, you basically waited 3x as long and wasted a few dollars in material. But for a business this is a much larger issue, you are tieing up a machine that could be printing something else when a print fails. Also at home post processing supports may be therapeutic in a sense but for a business it's added labor and stress if they break the part because of it. So, no it doesn't cost that much if you do it yourself but to have it made yes it costs a bit more. The same is true for most things. If you have a cnc machine it's cheaper than out sourcing the part. But at home if you break a bit, you throw a new one in and do it again. It costs you more and takes longer but it's still cheaper. Labor , and waste is very much a part of profit so it is to be expected to cost more. There is no way around this.
I was blown away when I saw the price and when you look at the reviews, you'll see that they don't last. I'm working on a process which anyone can do that will last, that will provide the support where it needs to be and it will be fully customizable for anyone. They'll need to provide some data, maybe a 3D scan would be a good idea, or at least some measurements.
That's what happen when you let capitalists into the system. Think about all the lies sold about "affordable 3d printed houses" ... Only to see venture capitalists printing dog 💩 quality "homes" then turning around to sell them for half a million dollars😭
I think it would be interesting to scan the clay before and after sitting, and use the areas that were indented as having the softer infill variant. Basically no modeling required except for the initial clay sculpt and some clean-up. You could even go a step further and do a scan after a quick neutral-sitting, then full-weight rider-lean and see where things dig in.
I think your results are extremely impressive! With a little bit of tweaking you can make it even better. Really enjoyed the process. I know the type of bead foam you were looking for, hahaha. TPU is a really amazing material and it's crazy how durable it is. I think this definitely beats paying $600 for a saddle that isn't even truly custom. Great work as always!
LOL, what a fool I am; I thought I had the foam beads! I need to get out more. Someone mentioned that they use foam beads in a vacuum bag, that might be a good option to try as well. I just need to make sure the kids don't get a hold of the foam, that could be a disaster! Now I need to try different types of TPU and different durometers. I'm making good progress on the leveled up version of this, and I think I can set it up to make it work for a lot of people as well.
yoy can use really soft wax, there is filleting wax based on bees wax which is used during mould making. I am making custom shoes (currently prototyping), its best sculpting material yet. I have tried monster clay, but its offen too hard, also used foam boxes but those are not accurate. Give it a try
Great video and project. You can accurately measure your ischial tuberosity (sit bones) using a simple method of damp paper towels and a hard surface. As a professional bicycle framebuilder, I do this frequently. Love your channel and projects!
This is a FANTASTIC project, thank you for showing that it really is that easy to dupe the stuff that the big companies are putting out with SLS... and to do it custom fitted no less! Definitely going to have to think about giving this idea a go... amazing to see how well the free photogrammetry software works as well. Outstanding work!!
Instead of modifying infill to change firmness in small areas- just print the saddle with those areas blank, then print several inserts in varying firmness to test them out. Also adding a wall will probably make it much stiffer than increasing density.
Highly recommend combining this with bigger tires on your bike to improve comfort. Also make sure to not inflate it too much, this is very common on road bikes! These older styles of bike were from before people realized the vibration losses from thinner tires were actually bigger than the lower rolling resistances they provided on typical roads, which is why modern road bikes run 28-35mm tires nowadays. Also! Really loved this video!
Nice info, I'll have a look into this when I look for an upgrade to this bike in the next year. You're right this is an older bike, I've had this for about 20 years now, still in pretty good shape... the bike... me, I'm still trying to get in better shape :)
@@NeedItMakeIt My personal recommendation would be to look at a so-called "gravel bike". Speed difference between one of those and a road bike is minimal, and not really something you notice when you're commuting. Otherwise you could always modify your current bike to put on gravel rims and tires on it and that'd do the same thing.
Love your channel Your posts are invaluable Most people has not the luxury of your troubleshooting And for this comments of People that think they already Ha a better solution.. We know they got here to Leen top skills!! Cheers “
Zellerfeld is company that scans the foot for 3d printed shoes. They use 70D TPU and around 40% zigzag infill mainly. They also do varying patterns like you do with some areas full and some open infill. Pretty cool stuff.
Btw if you find subdivision modelling comfortable in blender, you can export the unsubdivided mesh as a quad obj. Import to fusion then convert to t-spline then to b-rep and you end up with a solid object very similar to the subd model.
I'm open to using Blender for sure like this, I'll give it a try, thanks! I've been using Rhino and GH and it has been a big learning curve, but the possibilities are endless and I've made really good progress in the last week in getting something very close to what I've been looking for. I was able to convert the mesh from Blender into a Subd model in Rhino and the quad mesh is a bit dense, but it doesn't seem to matter.
@@NeedItMakeIt Yes Rhino and GH are probably the best approach from what I've seen. I don't have them though. I have been playing with Blenders geometry nodes with the aim of doing precisely this sort of variable infill. I've used signed distance fields to generate a range of infills, that can also be manipulated to thicken or change cell density/type in specific areas. Mostly with the idea of using resin or powder based printing methods. I've put a few shorts up showing concepts. I've not been able to crack a voronoi/stochastic lattice that is to my liking however. Once I've managed that I'll make it available.
I was hoping that some people could find some use in the video. I'm working on a solution that everyone can do themselves. I'm not too far away from it, it's quite a learning curve, but it'll be amazing when it's finished. If I had to guess it'd be 3 weeks until I can release a follow up video on it, if you're curious.
I'm definitely with you in the "custom make for our specific sizes" boat, I was just thinking about that a few weeks-months ago for "shoe stores of the future"; no ready made shoes, only scanners and printers
Try underexteuding varioshore tpu at like 230c. It’ll be a lot more forgiving. Plus you can finish the top mostly solid so it won’t be scratchy against your clothes
I think what you want is an auxetic lattice. instead of squashing outwards it compresses inwards in all directions at once. so it will pull more material in to support the areas where you are putting weight on it. knitwear is an example of a 2D auxetic structure and you can see how well it will curve and stretch to comfortably fit someone's body.
Don't split the model into multiple parts, but use the whole thing as a base and then the intersections as modifiers. It can by done directly in the slicer with a primitive as well, no need to cut it out in CAD. This way you can have variable infill density / type without having perimeters along the internal interface of the separated parts. I'm not familiar with Cura slicer, but I do believe it's possible. It's for sure possible to do in the Slic3r family (Prusa/Orca/Bambu).
I've been looking for a video like this since 3D printed saddles came on the market. I know that there's a Chinese knock off taking aspects from the Specialized / Fizik saddles on Aliexpress but this looks far more fun, and considering how many saddles I have lying around that didn't work for me stripping the padding off one of them to get started on this would be pretty straight forward!
I'm hoping everyone one who wants to can do it themselves pretty soon! I'll have another video out and I'm working towards making it in a form so that as many people can do it themselves as possible. There is a lot more that I need to learn on the material properties side and on the comfort side too. Should be good. Keep me posted on your progress, I'm interested to see where you go with it too!
Thanks! I have a lot more to share soon, this is going to go way further and I hope to make the process so that anyone can do it themselves if they have a printer a little bit of modelling skill.
To measure and fit race car seats they use some sort of plastic liner bag and fill with expanding foam, sit in it and wait for it to harden and this give them a mold, wondering if something similar could be used on the bike seat.
I thought you were going to pull out an IDEX printer or something to have multiple materials. You could also consider making a mold to cast some silicone. Dragon Skin 10 is great for stuff like this as long as you keep it out of the spots where you'll be rubbing against it.
I switched to a moped style ebike and that solved my seat comfort issues. Had to add 6" to the seat height though, and I'm not very tall. Horrible ergonomics for pedalling from the factory. Don't think they intended it for much actual exercise, despite the torque sensor setup.
Nice, very nice indeed. I also built a saddle, but for a motorbike and after intense riding I found the problem to be the creep (Creep in polymers is the time-dependent deformation of a given polymer). I am now experimenting with tubes for bikes and TPU in combination and am very interested on how you proceed. Greetings from Germany
Very cool. Yes this is something that I've seen in a previous testing video I made with TPU. I've seen that it does spring back, but not 100%. I might like to experiment with having a version printed professionally to be able to compare. We can also run some tests here in the shop for TPU. I can print some samples, and them compress them for a few days and then let them rest for a couple of hours and then re-measure. Hallo aus Kanada! I'll have a follow up to this likely in 3 weeks, this is quite a learning curve to get it to work the way I want it to, but it's going to be amazing and also fully parametric.
I've never had much of an issue except on day 2 of some weekend bike camping trips. I'd be interested in printing out a version of this myself. Let's hope a quicker way is available soon, or I get some slow time at work.
There are quite a few factors I suppose. I'd like to go for 30-50K rides, it was not possible with that amount of pain, I'll be out more with this version and see how far I can go before it becomes a problem. I may still need to make some minor adjustments and research as well to find the sweet spot for support vs cushion. I'm working on a better method and I'll make it available to everyone. What I'll do is find a generic bike saddle that's not expensive which could act as a base for anyone. Then what we can do is enter some values in the software I'm using, which is free for 90 days for anyone and then you'd need to provide your sit bone position as well and it will adjust the support automatically. It's a very cool process, I'm looking forward to sharing the process and developing it more. Stay tuned!
Believing online chatter, I bought a leather saddle. It was like riding on wood. Further research revealed the need for various oils and other treatments and the requirement to ride hundreds if not thousands of miles in order to get the saddle properly conditioned. Oh, and there was also the vague possibility that the saddle could be ruined by injudicious use of the softening products. I wasn’t convinced that the saddle that likely got conditioned by this process but rather my buttocks, so I abandoned the project. There were of course the usual online condemnation of failure to endure the pain in order to reap the claimed benefits. This article takes a much better approach.
It is such a huge difference designing using Grasshopper compared to Fusion or Inventor or AutoCAD, but it's incredible what it can do, so much potential. I think it might be 3 weeks until I can get that video out, it's hard to wrap my head around this. I was up to 3am two nights ago working on it, it's awesome!
Have you looked at using a Pivotal seatpost instead of a railed saddle? The design seems like it would be perfect for 3d printing, since it could allow you to make the entire saddle out of TPU -- all you'd need for attachment is a hole in the top to pass a bolt through. That's especially good if you want to go off the beaten path and try out things like noseless designs that don't match the shape of rails well.
I’ve always thought about doing this! Nice work. I like your approach. Just a side note, I’ve had really good luck with my selle anatomica saddle. It was a factory second, I got it for a steal and don’t even see the blemish. Really nice saddle.
Thanks, it needs some refinement of course, I'll have a much cleaner process for the follow up video where I present an option which I hope can work for a lot of people, and I'll do it using a generic low cost bike saddle from Amazon and then we can add the inputs for sit bone position etc. I think we're getting there, there is a lot to know about what makes a good saddle. Thanks for the advice, you have a leather saddle? I see they sell just the steel rails, which could be very useful for the follow up project!
@@NeedItMakeIt Interesting that you mentioned the generic saddle. I have noticed that I much prefer a narrower saddle, as a wider one rubs my inner thighs. So if I were doing this, I'd take that into account for the base saddle. Not sure if saddle width is something you've played with yet. Waiting for the next version of this to do it myself.
Fiy, there is a brand pf Vr helmet who asks you to scan your face and the print the casing to match your face (including ipd), i think it is called big screen beyond or something like that
Did you participate in the 2004 Olympics in Athens (cause of your trikot)...?!?!?! A fantastic summer, Greece has just become european footbal champion, and after the Olympics, should become vice-world-champion in basketball too... By the way, fantastic stuff...
We definitely want the support where the bones are, we're trying to get the load as directly as we can to the structure of our bodies. How much support, well I think I went a bit too far really. The bike shorts have a little bit of padding which probably makes up the difference. If we get too much compression of the soft tissues down there, it will cut off the blood flow, it'll get numb, and long-term it can also cause damage to other let's say important areas. There are quite a few factors too, like the type of bike, your riding position, the list goes on and on.
Where did you find that German-style carpentry table? I love those! I used to work on one all the time when I took woodcut / block printing classes (in Germany).
Your sit bones look very far forward on the custom saddle. They would normally be on the flat part, about an inch further back. Obviously do whatever you find most comfortable but if you can, try moving your saddle forward and see how that feels. (just a normal saddle, not the custom one) The graphic at 17:01 shows the pressure points where you'd usually have your sit bones.
That would be perfect, do you know of a slicer that does do it? I'd be willing to switch just for this project. I'm looking for bone infill, that's the ideal, something that looks like a 3D Voronoi pattern which has connections within the structure as well as the outside.
when scanning 3d objects using photogrammetry, it is important to make sure the object, background, and lighting stay the exact same between photos. the algorithm makes use of the surrounding to get the overall shape of the object. the fack that you keep moving it aroung makes me so uncomfortable for some reason 😂 on the other hand, the scans seems to be ok so ikd...
Awsome. Now I wish I would've bought an iPhone vs an S22 for the Lidar. Wonder if there's a way to leverage the Quest 3's Lidar... also, I really need to start learning Fusion 360.
Very impressive, thanks for sharing the whole process; I t’s a great example of very general tool to add to our 3D printing toolkits! (BTW, what’s the scanning app you’re using on your iPhone? It seemed to work extremely well!)
You're very welcome! This is only the beginning, I'd like to develop a much simpler process that can work for far more people and they'll be able to do it themselves, or at least they can send in a scan and then it can be processed for them. I might like to try using a resin printer also with some flexible resin. The app I've been using is Polycam, it works about 90% of the time. I've tried to scan my feet... it doesn't work if you're trying to do it yourself, there is too much movement and it gets confused. I use the free version, then export it, I then use a free converter to change it to OBJ so that I can use it in Fusion.
@@NeedItMakeIt Cool, I’ll download Polycam and try it today. I hadn’t looked at it very carefully and had been put off by the need for a subscription - but it sounds like an easy workaround for casual use. Thanks!
Hi there! I have a question regarding the SE/KE. Do you think it would be possible/worth it to use linear rods on the x axis (like what it on the sv06 or ender 3 v3 metal frame) instead of a linear rail and abandon the extrusion based gantry? I’m not very experienced with modding so I’m wondering if my brain may be too creative and ambitious for its own good
Nope, either way works. I have turntables for my scanners, but you can also move around an object. Most 3d scanners aren't as mobile as using your phone (photogrammetry) since they require a computer to be connected by cable.
Have you tried Sainsmart GT-3 TPU 95A? Its a truly magical high speed TPU, I have it printing at 22mm3/s on a .6 nozzle @ 220C. Wish there were also higher densities of TPU, since its such an amazing material outside of its usual flexible properties.
Really, that's wayyy higher than I've been able to get, I'm only hovering around 6m³/s. I've heard good things about it, so I'll see if I can get my hands on some. I'd love to be able to run some through the AMS, I think it's just a bit too stretchy.
@@NeedItMakeIt yeah, with Overture 95A I need to limit myself to 4mm3/s at 230-240C and its just a whole pain, tons of stringing even fully dry and its a rough filament that requires tons of force to pull through the tube, the sainsmart has a really smooth exterior
I print chew bones for my dogs with it and though they have been able to tear them apart it took 2 dogs several months to do it. And it cost me less than a dollar.
That was what I was thinking. Defeats the purpose of a cushioned seat if your butt hurts from the bones pressing against a harder surface. The rest of the butt is already cushioned. But I also don’t cycle. So there could be reason for stability or something else?
In the case of a bike saddle, I don't believe that to be the correct direction. The load needs to go to our frames, and avoid pressure on the soft tissues, that will cause the blood supply to be cut off and cause numbness, pinched nerves etc. The exact correct proportion and softness... well more research is required, I'd imagine that I went a bit too firm for the entire saddle. Most importantly keep pressure away from the reproductive body parts down there.
A little cushion and flex is a good thing under those sit bones it's most important to prevent compression of the soft tissues, especially over a long period of time, it will cut the circulation and become numb, it can also cause long-term damage to other body parts down there. The bones are the frames of our bodies, it's best to get the load to them as directly as we can. More research is certainly required to have a full understanding.
That's a good point, it might cause some wear down there. The TPU is pretty tough stuff. I can skin the top really easily so that's a good option, some of the pro saddles are made this way as well and that's likely why.
I'll be out again today, 3/5 isn't great, but it's at least a start, I need to soften the entire saddle and I need to make some minor adjustments to the shape. I have a completely new approach in the works right now, so hopefully I can show the progress on an upcoming video soon.
wonder if its somewhat similar with running shoes - you buy a size up to account for your feet swelling during extended runs lol. you might need some similar booty safety factors >.
Aa fully printed shoe which expands as you run makes a lot of sense to me. If we understand the variables, we can account for them by using a type of webbing that moves in some directions more than others. I've since printed some more TPU samples, and they compress far more easily in one direction compared to the other with a gyroid infill pattern and no walls. Do you think anyone would wear a fully printed shoe?
Awesome results great design and effort. Did u wear the cycling shorts when doing the mold of your butt cheeks? Im thinking different shorts would also effect the mold because there like wearing a nappy? I am very interested in seeing custom 3d printed insoles please show if you can
We're getting there! I didn't wear cycling shorts during the molding process I wanted to get as much detail as possible, I would have done it without shorts, that might not have been the best to show on camera... Custom insoles would be amazing, and I think that's a bit easier, we could use something like plaster of Paris for the shape. I can include this into the follow up video which should be in a few weeks if I can get it all working correctly. It is quite a learning curve to take all of this to the next level, but once it is done, the solution becomes useable for anything.
This is a 95A TPU, which at this thickness is pretty hard, with my other samples, printing with 0.3 or 0.4 line width produces a very nice soft and flexible piece.
It is far better than where I started, it's not perfect, I need to re-print it using a smaller line width, I underestimated how hard the 95A TPU is when printed as a full piece, playing with a piece of filament doesn't do it justice. the 0.3 or 0.4mm line width produces a really nice soft result, so that's next to try. The sit bone supports will be a bit more forgiving as well, they were quite stiff and I think could also do with a bit of give to them.
LOL, I do believe I went a bit hard... the support needs to be where the bones are. This transfers the load to the structure of our bodies directly and keeps it away from the soft tissues where we have lots of blood vessels and other very important pieces of anatomy which do not do well when compressed over a long period of time. More research is required for sure. I'd like to have something with a more gradual transition and I'm very close to getting there and will share the results for everyone when I do.
LOL, I have a backup thumbnail ready just incase! I think we're getting there, I'd really like this to be something that anyone can do at home and get exactly what they need. It's not so simple right now, but I'm working towards a better simpler method and we can take it from there!
I think it comes down to the position for the road bike, we often have to get low to reduce the drag, the seat needs to be fairly narrow to allow this and still provide some support. Personally I think we need a completely new type of saddle, one that allows the movement with pivots and follows your butt's movement rather than just being static.
Leather has some advantages for sure, it can be easily molded with water and then dried to keep the shape, that's a great property. It will take a lot of research and knowledge of what makes a good saddle, but 3d printing these will become the preferred method, along with shoes, insoles, helmets etc. I love to make things by hand, but making something with a support structure inside which correctly provides what's needed is hard to duplicate with foam and leather. If you're referring to Leather Horse Saddles, well, that's a different thing. I love leather, it's a beautiful and long lasting material, it seems to only improve with time if it has been cared for, nothing against it, and I like the taste of the meat that's below the leather too!
@@NeedItMakeIt sure, no doubt they will. these are also much lighter. if they're combined with metal 3d prints you can even integrate the seatpost, saving a further 150-250 grams. i do wish contestants of races would have some sort of gentlemen's agreement not to keep even the uci weight limit but go heavier, that way we wouldn't need any of that, and the brooks b17 is right there for only 350 grams extra compared to all this light stuff. at 9 kilo weight they could even go for proper full suspension road bikes. don't get me wrong i like the tune speedneedle, even like the look of berk's integrated carbon saddle, but i think they are technically inferior to a 130 year old design. is this actual progress?
Keep the pressure off of those sensitive areas and it shouldn't be a problem. I think the new saddles are quite a bit better with that cutout in the center. They still apply pressure to other areas which will cut off circulation and that can't be good down there.
Its very important that you get a seat that doesn't apply pressure to anywhere but your sit bones. That is why properly designed seats often have a cutout down the middle to avoid soft tissue damage in your crotch. Seats without the cutout can also work IF they have a flat profile that doesn't apply pressure in your soft tissue.
This was before they started putting holes and grooves in sensitive areas in saddles so that they don't put pressure there. And "too much" here referred to multiple hours per day FYI.
Even if it is less durable (which I am not convinced that it is) It's easily replaced, provides better support for him, and cost less than buying a seat.
@@diamonddogie He said it was far more comfortable than his two other seats. He can easily alter the infill. TPU is incredibly durable. The original comment is completely wrong even if this can be improved.
Strictly based on the research I've done on bike saddles and my own experience from road cycling for 26 years, we need the firm support below the bones, it would be a mistake to support the soft parts of our bodies which contain all of the blood vessels and nerves. The load needs to be transferred to our frames; our bone structure. That is unless you want long-term damage. Personally I like to keep my reproductive systems intact. I will admit that more research is required, there is a lot to know when it comes to designing parts which mesh with our bodies, and I won't pretend to know everything.
Use a vacuum bag with small polystyrene balls in it, sit on it then pull the vacuum. That's what people use for horse saddles.
Perfect! This is awesome, do you think I can use a regular vacuum or should I use a vacuum pump?
Oh yeah, you could do this with coffee too! Coarse grounds or whole beans should behave the same way
@@NeedItMakeItI haven't tried myself, but IIRC from videos I've seen a vacuum cleaner has enough suction. The technique is often used to stabilize broken bones for transport to the hospital. There are probably videos about it. Search for vacuum splint.
The beads are the same kind as used in bean bags, though maybe a little smaller.. Not sure.
@@NeedItMakeIt I've not done it myself (I happened to remember from another UA-cam video) however, I think even just the little manual suction things you use for vacuum sealing food (or in my case filament!) could be sufficient.
polystyrene balls would shrink when you pull the vacuum though wouldnt they? I'd go for something more solid so that the shape doesnt change when the vacuum is pulled but they stay locked in position by the vacuum
The thing that annoys me most about those 3dprinted products is that they are monstrously expensive and aren't even custom. Which is the whole thing that makes 3d printing actually win over traditional methods.
That's because people like profit.
And as for the custom parts, many of the 3d printed products aren't made on request, but rather printed in bulk, which leaves no customization to the end user. There are printing shops that do print on order, and allow you to change some stuff, but even then sometimes it's too much of a hassle if the customization is something big, meaning the people running the shop waste their time adding custom options, which means they can print less other stuff if everyone does it.
Printing something yourself is cheap, but having something printer for you is expensive. Why? Well 1 they have to make a profit, when you add up shipping costs and how long it may take to post process something it starts to add up. 2 not every print is successful. 3 not every print works in certain orientations. At home of you have to print it 3 times before you get it right, you basically waited 3x as long and wasted a few dollars in material. But for a business this is a much larger issue, you are tieing up a machine that could be printing something else when a print fails. Also at home post processing supports may be therapeutic in a sense but for a business it's added labor and stress if they break the part because of it. So, no it doesn't cost that much if you do it yourself but to have it made yes it costs a bit more. The same is true for most things. If you have a cnc machine it's cheaper than out sourcing the part. But at home if you break a bit, you throw a new one in and do it again. It costs you more and takes longer but it's still cheaper. Labor , and waste is very much a part of profit so it is to be expected to cost more. There is no way around this.
I was blown away when I saw the price and when you look at the reviews, you'll see that they don't last. I'm working on a process which anyone can do that will last, that will provide the support where it needs to be and it will be fully customizable for anyone. They'll need to provide some data, maybe a 3D scan would be a good idea, or at least some measurements.
Wants custom, and cheap..... sound like it's time to DIY it then. You get 3 prices, bulk, custom, and diy. Your choice.
That's what happen when you let capitalists into the system. Think about all the lies sold about "affordable 3d printed houses" ... Only to see venture capitalists printing dog 💩 quality "homes" then turning around to sell them for half a million dollars😭
I think it would be interesting to scan the clay before and after sitting, and use the areas that were indented as having the softer infill variant. Basically no modeling required except for the initial clay sculpt and some clean-up. You could even go a step further and do a scan after a quick neutral-sitting, then full-weight rider-lean and see where things dig in.
I think your results are extremely impressive! With a little bit of tweaking you can make it even better. Really enjoyed the process. I know the type of bead foam you were looking for, hahaha. TPU is a really amazing material and it's crazy how durable it is. I think this definitely beats paying $600 for a saddle that isn't even truly custom. Great work as always!
LOL, what a fool I am; I thought I had the foam beads! I need to get out more. Someone mentioned that they use foam beads in a vacuum bag, that might be a good option to try as well. I just need to make sure the kids don't get a hold of the foam, that could be a disaster! Now I need to try different types of TPU and different durometers. I'm making good progress on the leveled up version of this, and I think I can set it up to make it work for a lot of people as well.
yoy can use really soft wax, there is filleting wax based on bees wax which is used during mould making. I am making custom shoes (currently prototyping), its best sculpting material yet. I have tried monster clay, but its offen too hard, also used foam boxes but those are not accurate. Give it a try
Great video and project. You can accurately measure your ischial tuberosity (sit bones) using a simple method of damp paper towels and a hard surface. As a professional bicycle framebuilder, I do this frequently.
Love your channel and projects!
This is a FANTASTIC project, thank you for showing that it really is that easy to dupe the stuff that the big companies are putting out with SLS... and to do it custom fitted no less! Definitely going to have to think about giving this idea a go... amazing to see how well the free photogrammetry software works as well. Outstanding work!!
Instead of modifying infill to change firmness in small areas- just print the saddle with those areas blank, then print several inserts in varying firmness to test them out. Also adding a wall will probably make it much stiffer than increasing density.
Highly recommend combining this with bigger tires on your bike to improve comfort. Also make sure to not inflate it too much, this is very common on road bikes!
These older styles of bike were from before people realized the vibration losses from thinner tires were actually bigger than the lower rolling resistances they provided on typical roads, which is why modern road bikes run 28-35mm tires nowadays.
Also! Really loved this video!
Nice info, I'll have a look into this when I look for an upgrade to this bike in the next year. You're right this is an older bike, I've had this for about 20 years now, still in pretty good shape... the bike... me, I'm still trying to get in better shape :)
@@NeedItMakeIt My personal recommendation would be to look at a so-called "gravel bike". Speed difference between one of those and a road bike is minimal, and not really something you notice when you're commuting.
Otherwise you could always modify your current bike to put on gravel rims and tires on it and that'd do the same thing.
Excellent assessment of the technology. It's great that you made this video to preserve the technique for posterior!
Love your channel
Your posts are invaluable
Most people has not the luxury of your troubleshooting
And for this comments of
People that think they already
Ha a better solution..
We know they got here to
Leen top skills!!
Cheers “
Excited to see part 2!
Zellerfeld is company that scans the foot for 3d printed shoes. They use 70D TPU and around 40% zigzag infill mainly. They also do varying patterns like you do with some areas full and some open infill. Pretty cool stuff.
Suggestion: Look into how Formula 1 teams mold their drivers seats.
i really like the fun factor added on this video. :P
Btw if you find subdivision modelling comfortable in blender, you can export the unsubdivided mesh as a quad obj. Import to fusion then convert to t-spline then to b-rep and you end up with a solid object very similar to the subd model.
I'm open to using Blender for sure like this, I'll give it a try, thanks! I've been using Rhino and GH and it has been a big learning curve, but the possibilities are endless and I've made really good progress in the last week in getting something very close to what I've been looking for. I was able to convert the mesh from Blender into a Subd model in Rhino and the quad mesh is a bit dense, but it doesn't seem to matter.
@@NeedItMakeIt Yes Rhino and GH are probably the best approach from what I've seen. I don't have them though.
I have been playing with Blenders geometry nodes with the aim of doing precisely this sort of variable infill. I've used signed distance fields to generate a range of infills, that can also be manipulated to thicken or change cell density/type in specific areas. Mostly with the idea of using resin or powder based printing methods. I've put a few shorts up showing concepts.
I've not been able to crack a voronoi/stochastic lattice that is to my liking however. Once I've managed that I'll make it available.
This is perfectly timed. I'm trying to fit a new saddle and while riding yesterday was thinking I can print a solution.
I was hoping that some people could find some use in the video. I'm working on a solution that everyone can do themselves. I'm not too far away from it, it's quite a learning curve, but it'll be amazing when it's finished. If I had to guess it'd be 3 weeks until I can release a follow up video on it, if you're curious.
Great video ! Very entertaining! I'm curious to see what you are going to do next
I'm definitely with you in the "custom make for our specific sizes" boat, I was just thinking about that a few weeks-months ago for "shoe stores of the future"; no ready made shoes, only scanners and printers
Try underexteuding varioshore tpu at like 230c. It’ll be a lot more forgiving. Plus you can finish the top mostly solid so it won’t be scratchy against your clothes
Amazing work!
Never did I think you'd be posting a video where you utter the words "scanning my rear end" 😅.
Neither did I! I really should have used more euphemisms for that, it could have been so much more interesting.
This is definitely next-level stuff - WOW. Thanks for the inspiration 👍👍😎👍👍
What a coincidence! I just recently did this exact same thing but with a controller
I think what you want is an auxetic lattice. instead of squashing outwards it compresses inwards in all directions at once. so it will pull more material in to support the areas where you are putting weight on it. knitwear is an example of a 2D auxetic structure and you can see how well it will curve and stretch to comfortably fit someone's body.
Don't split the model into multiple parts, but use the whole thing as a base and then the intersections as modifiers. It can by done directly in the slicer with a primitive as well, no need to cut it out in CAD. This way you can have variable infill density / type without having perimeters along the internal interface of the separated parts. I'm not familiar with Cura slicer, but I do believe it's possible. It's for sure possible to do in the Slic3r family (Prusa/Orca/Bambu).
I've been looking for a video like this since 3D printed saddles came on the market. I know that there's a Chinese knock off taking aspects from the Specialized / Fizik saddles on Aliexpress but this looks far more fun, and considering how many saddles I have lying around that didn't work for me stripping the padding off one of them to get started on this would be pretty straight forward!
Ha. This will be my next project. Thanks for the inspiration!
I'm hoping everyone one who wants to can do it themselves pretty soon! I'll have another video out and I'm working towards making it in a form so that as many people can do it themselves as possible. There is a lot more that I need to learn on the material properties side and on the comfort side too. Should be good. Keep me posted on your progress, I'm interested to see where you go with it too!
Nice project! huge work here.
Modern bike seats look like some sort of alien phallus. Just a strange thought I had looking at it.
Very interesting concept and an awesome job as usual!
Thanks! I have a lot more to share soon, this is going to go way further and I hope to make the process so that anyone can do it themselves if they have a printer a little bit of modelling skill.
We all know where this project is going.
I don't.
@@imacmill bad dragon
@@contomo5710 I figured it out near the end. And by saying that, I've added to the spectacle.
It's a Shinjo!
that would not be possible to adequately keep clean
To measure and fit race car seats they use some sort of plastic liner bag and fill with expanding foam, sit in it and wait for it to harden and this give them a mold, wondering if something similar could be used on the bike seat.
that was a cool project
I thought you were going to pull out an IDEX printer or something to have multiple materials.
You could also consider making a mold to cast some silicone. Dragon Skin 10 is great for stuff like this as long as you keep it out of the spots where you'll be rubbing against it.
Great project
6:45 JUST BUY SOME PLAYDOH. DAMNIT!
I switched to a moped style ebike and that solved my seat comfort issues. Had to add 6" to the seat height though, and I'm not very tall. Horrible ergonomics for pedalling from the factory. Don't think they intended it for much actual exercise, despite the torque sensor setup.
In my experience you can easily do 3x your volumetric flow if you put a cht nozzle in the machien
Nice, very nice indeed. I also built a saddle, but for a motorbike and after intense riding I found the problem to be the creep (Creep in polymers is the time-dependent deformation of a given polymer). I am now experimenting with tubes for bikes and TPU in combination and am very interested on how you proceed. Greetings from Germany
Very cool. Yes this is something that I've seen in a previous testing video I made with TPU. I've seen that it does spring back, but not 100%. I might like to experiment with having a version printed professionally to be able to compare. We can also run some tests here in the shop for TPU. I can print some samples, and them compress them for a few days and then let them rest for a couple of hours and then re-measure. Hallo aus Kanada! I'll have a follow up to this likely in 3 weeks, this is quite a learning curve to get it to work the way I want it to, but it's going to be amazing and also fully parametric.
I've never had much of an issue except on day 2 of some weekend bike camping trips. I'd be interested in printing out a version of this myself. Let's hope a quicker way is available soon, or I get some slow time at work.
There are quite a few factors I suppose. I'd like to go for 30-50K rides, it was not possible with that amount of pain, I'll be out more with this version and see how far I can go before it becomes a problem. I may still need to make some minor adjustments and research as well to find the sweet spot for support vs cushion. I'm working on a better method and I'll make it available to everyone. What I'll do is find a generic bike saddle that's not expensive which could act as a base for anyone. Then what we can do is enter some values in the software I'm using, which is free for 90 days for anyone and then you'd need to provide your sit bone position as well and it will adjust the support automatically. It's a very cool process, I'm looking forward to sharing the process and developing it more. Stay tuned!
Believing online chatter, I bought a leather saddle. It was like riding on wood. Further research revealed the need for various oils and other treatments and the requirement to ride hundreds if not thousands of miles in order to get the saddle properly conditioned. Oh, and there was also the vague possibility that the saddle could be ruined by injudicious use of the softening products. I wasn’t convinced that the saddle that likely got conditioned by this process but rather my buttocks, so I abandoned the project. There were of course the usual online condemnation of failure to endure the pain in order to reap the claimed benefits. This article takes a much better approach.
10:44 SITBONEL SITBONER 😂
Dude I cannot wait for grasshopper content
It is such a huge difference designing using Grasshopper compared to Fusion or Inventor or AutoCAD, but it's incredible what it can do, so much potential. I think it might be 3 weeks until I can get that video out, it's hard to wrap my head around this. I was up to 3am two nights ago working on it, it's awesome!
Have you looked at using a Pivotal seatpost instead of a railed saddle? The design seems like it would be perfect for 3d printing, since it could allow you to make the entire saddle out of TPU -- all you'd need for attachment is a hole in the top to pass a bolt through.
That's especially good if you want to go off the beaten path and try out things like noseless designs that don't match the shape of rails well.
I’ve always thought about doing this! Nice work. I like your approach.
Just a side note, I’ve had really good luck with my selle anatomica saddle. It was a factory second, I got it for a steal and don’t even see the blemish. Really nice saddle.
Thanks, it needs some refinement of course, I'll have a much cleaner process for the follow up video where I present an option which I hope can work for a lot of people, and I'll do it using a generic low cost bike saddle from Amazon and then we can add the inputs for sit bone position etc. I think we're getting there, there is a lot to know about what makes a good saddle. Thanks for the advice, you have a leather saddle? I see they sell just the steel rails, which could be very useful for the follow up project!
@@NeedItMakeIt Interesting that you mentioned the generic saddle. I have noticed that I much prefer a narrower saddle, as a wider one rubs my inner thighs. So if I were doing this, I'd take that into account for the base saddle. Not sure if saddle width is something you've played with yet. Waiting for the next version of this to do it myself.
Fiy, there is a brand pf Vr helmet who asks you to scan your face and the print the casing to match your face (including ipd), i think it is called big screen beyond or something like that
Cool, we're getting there with the tech.
Did you participate in the 2004 Olympics in Athens (cause of your trikot)...?!?!?! A fantastic summer, Greece has just become european footbal champion, and after the Olympics, should become vice-world-champion in basketball too...
By the way, fantastic stuff...
One thing I didn't get is why you'd want the FIRM parts to be where bones are? Wouldn't it be the other way?
We definitely want the support where the bones are, we're trying to get the load as directly as we can to the structure of our bodies. How much support, well I think I went a bit too far really. The bike shorts have a little bit of padding which probably makes up the difference. If we get too much compression of the soft tissues down there, it will cut off the blood flow, it'll get numb, and long-term it can also cause damage to other let's say important areas. There are quite a few factors too, like the type of bike, your riding position, the list goes on and on.
Where did you find that German-style carpentry table? I love those! I used to work on one all the time when I took woodcut / block printing classes (in Germany).
Your sit bones look very far forward on the custom saddle. They would normally be on the flat part, about an inch further back.
Obviously do whatever you find most comfortable but if you can, try moving your saddle forward and see how that feels. (just a normal saddle, not the custom one)
The graphic at 17:01 shows the pressure points where you'd usually have your sit bones.
Great video
Thank you!
Gyroid infill density can be varied continiously, but most slicers can't do that yet unfortunately.
That would be perfect, do you know of a slicer that does do it? I'd be willing to switch just for this project. I'm looking for bone infill, that's the ideal, something that looks like a 3D Voronoi pattern which has connections within the structure as well as the outside.
when scanning 3d objects using photogrammetry, it is important to make sure the object, background, and lighting stay the exact same between photos. the algorithm makes use of the surrounding to get the overall shape of the object. the fack that you keep moving it aroung makes me so uncomfortable for some reason 😂
on the other hand, the scans seems to be ok so ikd...
Awsome. Now I wish I would've bought an iPhone vs an S22 for the Lidar. Wonder if there's a way to leverage the Quest 3's Lidar... also, I really need to start learning Fusion 360.
Really good result but maybe you should make the seat a little bit larger
Narrow seats are better for longer rides since rubbing against the seat will chafe your legs real bad once you start sweating.
excellent,now do that organic modelling on the rest of the bike
Super content
I am thinking about some wet starch in a ballon might do the job of imprinting
Very impressive, thanks for sharing the whole process; I t’s a great example of very general tool to add to our 3D printing toolkits!
(BTW, what’s the scanning app you’re using on your iPhone? It seemed to work extremely well!)
You're very welcome! This is only the beginning, I'd like to develop a much simpler process that can work for far more people and they'll be able to do it themselves, or at least they can send in a scan and then it can be processed for them. I might like to try using a resin printer also with some flexible resin.
The app I've been using is Polycam, it works about 90% of the time. I've tried to scan my feet... it doesn't work if you're trying to do it yourself, there is too much movement and it gets confused. I use the free version, then export it, I then use a free converter to change it to OBJ so that I can use it in Fusion.
@@NeedItMakeIt Cool, I’ll download Polycam and try it today. I hadn’t looked at it very carefully and had been put off by the need for a subscription - but it sounds like an easy workaround for casual use. Thanks!
Have you tried using reality composer from apple, for 3d scanning? That should use the lidar as I understand it.
1:30 in, just encountered the concept and wondering how the butt scan will go. Okay, I'm strapped in, let's do this thing!
Hi there! I have a question regarding the SE/KE. Do you think it would be possible/worth it to use linear rods on the x axis (like what it on the sv06 or ender 3 v3 metal frame) instead of a linear rail and abandon the extrusion based gantry? I’m not very experienced with modding so I’m wondering if my brain may be too creative and ambitious for its own good
I have no direct experience of scanning but I'd always thought it important to rotate around the subject rather than turning it.
it depends on the method/software used. Some are designed for the model to spin, others for you to rotate around it.
Nope, either way works. I have turntables for my scanners, but you can also move around an object. Most 3d scanners aren't as mobile as using your phone (photogrammetry) since they require a computer to be connected by cable.
@@ryanlandry8214 thanks. Good to know.
scanning your rear end may not have been the solution, but it would have been very funny to see an attempt :P
LOL, long arms are the key!
Do you have Play Doh/Plasticine in the US? Moldable and holds its shape, also has a matte finish perfect for 3D scanning
Testing the FLSun T1 apparently ...
Have you tried Sainsmart GT-3 TPU 95A? Its a truly magical high speed TPU, I have it printing at 22mm3/s on a .6 nozzle @ 220C. Wish there were also higher densities of TPU, since its such an amazing material outside of its usual flexible properties.
Really, that's wayyy higher than I've been able to get, I'm only hovering around 6m³/s. I've heard good things about it, so I'll see if I can get my hands on some. I'd love to be able to run some through the AMS, I think it's just a bit too stretchy.
@@lbatalha Yeah wow that's crazy fast usually the limit is 5-6mm³/s
@@NeedItMakeIt yeah, with Overture 95A I need to limit myself to 4mm3/s at 230-240C and its just a whole pain, tons of stringing even fully dry and its a rough filament that requires tons of force to pull through the tube, the sainsmart has a really smooth exterior
I have overture high speed tpu and I'm pretty sure I am printing at 16mm mvfr.
I print chew bones for my dogs with it and though they have been able to tear them apart it took 2 dogs several months to do it. And it cost me less than a dollar.
It has long been known that the bones need a softer material and the soft part of the body needs a harder material
That was what I was thinking. Defeats the purpose of a cushioned seat if your butt hurts from the bones pressing against a harder surface. The rest of the butt is already cushioned.
But I also don’t cycle. So there could be reason for stability or something else?
Yes, it is also known from prosthesis products.
In the case of a bike saddle, I don't believe that to be the correct direction. The load needs to go to our frames, and avoid pressure on the soft tissues, that will cause the blood supply to be cut off and cause numbness, pinched nerves etc. The exact correct proportion and softness... well more research is required, I'd imagine that I went a bit too firm for the entire saddle. Most importantly keep pressure away from the reproductive body parts down there.
A little cushion and flex is a good thing under those sit bones it's most important to prevent compression of the soft tissues, especially over a long period of time, it will cut the circulation and become numb, it can also cause long-term damage to other body parts down there. The bones are the frames of our bodies, it's best to get the load to them as directly as we can. More research is certainly required to have a full understanding.
Do you have any resource you can provide, I'd like to do more research on this subject.
11:59 does not look suspicious at all
4:52 Mmm mint Aero :)
Can you believe that I didn't even have a bite, the kids and wife enjoyed every bit.
@@NeedItMakeIt I love the taste, texture and smell but as a diabetic, I don't remember when I last had one. 😓
there is a place in poland that 3d scans ur feet i belive to find u perfect shoes !!!
That makes a lot of sense to me. Better than those big metal gauges on the floor. Now we just need to print the entire shoe.
You'll want to reprint it with a thin continuous surface so that the infill won't grind your clothing in no time
That's a good point, it might cause some wear down there. The TPU is pretty tough stuff. I can skin the top really easily so that's a good option, some of the pro saddles are made this way as well and that's likely why.
I literally thought that was a birds beak or perhaps something much more scandalous ngl.
This picture just spoke to me, so I went with it. It's hard to tell what it belongs to, hopefully the ideas can apply to a lot of different things!
Still waiting for the "n-Out-Of-Five" rating for the yellow saddle..
I'll be out again today, 3/5 isn't great, but it's at least a start, I need to soften the entire saddle and I need to make some minor adjustments to the shape. I have a completely new approach in the works right now, so hopefully I can show the progress on an upcoming video soon.
Whats the scanning software?
wonder if its somewhat similar with running shoes - you buy a size up to account for your feet swelling during extended runs lol. you might need some similar booty safety factors >.
Aa fully printed shoe which expands as you run makes a lot of sense to me. If we understand the variables, we can account for them by using a type of webbing that moves in some directions more than others. I've since printed some more TPU samples, and they compress far more easily in one direction compared to the other with a gyroid infill pattern and no walls. Do you think anyone would wear a fully printed shoe?
The saddle looks like it's tilted forward
14:10 eyewear arms go over the helmet straps (Velominati rule 37)
Never heard of it, but thanks for the tip. I assume there is a reason for this?
Awesome results great design and effort.
Did u wear the cycling shorts when doing the mold of your butt cheeks? Im thinking different shorts would also effect the mold because there like wearing a nappy?
I am very interested in seeing custom 3d printed insoles please show if you can
We're getting there! I didn't wear cycling shorts during the molding process I wanted to get as much detail as possible, I would have done it without shorts, that might not have been the best to show on camera... Custom insoles would be amazing, and I think that's a bit easier, we could use something like plaster of Paris for the shape. I can include this into the follow up video which should be in a few weeks if I can get it all working correctly. It is quite a learning curve to take all of this to the next level, but once it is done, the solution becomes useable for anything.
@@NeedItMakeIt that would be amazing to do a insole video, thanks for the detailed reply much appreciated
Hey kids, here's Daddy's butt clay... Go have a good time!
HAHA, good thing I used the GLAD CLING WRAP, so that's it didn't have to make an excuse for a new color of clay added.
9:00 instead of using Blender, did you consider the CAD program called Plasticity?
I've heard of it, and looked at a few vids but never tried it, do you recommend it?
Is that the flsun t1 in the background? How did you get it?
I can neither confirm or deny, but what I can say is that you need to stay tuned to find out.
What shore hardness is the TPU filament?
This is a 95A TPU, which at this thickness is pretty hard, with my other samples, printing with 0.3 or 0.4 line width produces a very nice soft and flexible piece.
Is it really confy? I want to try it as well
It is far better than where I started, it's not perfect, I need to re-print it using a smaller line width, I underestimated how hard the 95A TPU is when printed as a full piece, playing with a piece of filament doesn't do it justice. the 0.3 or 0.4mm line width produces a really nice soft result, so that's next to try. The sit bone supports will be a bit more forgiving as well, they were quite stiff and I think could also do with a bit of give to them.
Yeah, custom body part scan for a shoe....
Surely you want the soft material where your bones are contacting the seat? Unless you've got a rock hard ass and really compressable bones.
LOL, I do believe I went a bit hard... the support needs to be where the bones are. This transfers the load to the structure of our bodies directly and keeps it away from the soft tissues where we have lots of blood vessels and other very important pieces of anatomy which do not do well when compressed over a long period of time. More research is required for sure. I'd like to have something with a more gradual transition and I'm very close to getting there and will share the results for everyone when I do.
today, looks like gonna be a 18+ content 😅, but nice vid :) thats the future
I'm guessing that using flesh tones for one of the 3D renders was not the best choice. 🤣
@@jamiemacdonald436 🤣
LOL, I have a backup thumbnail ready just incase! I think we're getting there, I'd really like this to be something that anyone can do at home and get exactly what they need. It's not so simple right now, but I'm working towards a better simpler method and we can take it from there!
I can honestly say I wasn't going for anything like that, good thing I didn't get the skin tone filament! Maybe Simpson's tone...
Is that a schematic of your sore balls on the white board lmao
Balls or butt :)
memory foam?
That sounds really comfortable!
I wonder how people can use these thin wood sticks as a saddle. I am in 5min in tremendous pain. For me, saddles should be wider than long.
I think it comes down to the position for the road bike, we often have to get low to reduce the drag, the seat needs to be fairly narrow to allow this and still provide some support. Personally I think we need a completely new type of saddle, one that allows the movement with pivots and follows your butt's movement rather than just being static.
While I do not condone riding on public streets as it is a danger to the public, nice 3d printing, u get a like.
Bikes are road vehicles, and biking on sidewalks in illegal in most places.
"a danger to the public"
You must really hate cars then - almost 50k deaths per year in the US.
You don't "condone", uh, oh, now we will change our riding because you don't condone it, dude get over yourself, you are less than nothing!
Great.
I hate these saddles
No saddle will ever feel great when you run it at that angle. I know this is a 3d printing channel, but check some basic bike fit videos first
you're trying to reinvent what leather saddles already do better
Leather has some advantages for sure, it can be easily molded with water and then dried to keep the shape, that's a great property. It will take a lot of research and knowledge of what makes a good saddle, but 3d printing these will become the preferred method, along with shoes, insoles, helmets etc. I love to make things by hand, but making something with a support structure inside which correctly provides what's needed is hard to duplicate with foam and leather. If you're referring to Leather Horse Saddles, well, that's a different thing. I love leather, it's a beautiful and long lasting material, it seems to only improve with time if it has been cared for, nothing against it, and I like the taste of the meat that's below the leather too!
@@NeedItMakeIt sure, no doubt they will. these are also much lighter. if they're combined with metal 3d prints you can even integrate the seatpost, saving a further 150-250 grams. i do wish contestants of races would have some sort of gentlemen's agreement not to keep even the uci weight limit but go heavier, that way we wouldn't need any of that, and the brooks b17 is right there for only 350 grams extra compared to all this light stuff. at 9 kilo weight they could even go for proper full suspension road bikes. don't get me wrong i like the tune speedneedle, even like the look of berk's integrated carbon saddle, but i think they are technically inferior to a 130 year old design. is this actual progress?
They say riding bicycles too much can cause male infertility because of the way you sit on them. I wonder if this would help that.
Keep the pressure off of those sensitive areas and it shouldn't be a problem. I think the new saddles are quite a bit better with that cutout in the center. They still apply pressure to other areas which will cut off circulation and that can't be good down there.
Its very important that you get a seat that doesn't apply pressure to anywhere but your sit bones. That is why properly designed seats often have a cutout down the middle to avoid soft tissue damage in your crotch. Seats without the cutout can also work IF they have a flat profile that doesn't apply pressure in your soft tissue.
This was before they started putting holes and grooves in sensitive areas in saddles so that they don't put pressure there.
And "too much" here referred to multiple hours per day FYI.
after all this work, you came out with something worse and less durable than the original seat ...
Worse how? What makes you think it's less durable?
Even if it is less durable (which I am not convinced that it is) It's easily replaced, provides better support for him, and cost less than buying a seat.
@@802Garageas was said already in the comments, seatbones need cushioning and meaty parts of ass need firmer support.
@@diamonddogie He said it was far more comfortable than his two other seats. He can easily alter the infill. TPU is incredibly durable. The original comment is completely wrong even if this can be improved.
Strictly based on the research I've done on bike saddles and my own experience from road cycling for 26 years, we need the firm support below the bones, it would be a mistake to support the soft parts of our bodies which contain all of the blood vessels and nerves. The load needs to be transferred to our frames; our bone structure. That is unless you want long-term damage. Personally I like to keep my reproductive systems intact. I will admit that more research is required, there is a lot to know when it comes to designing parts which mesh with our bodies, and I won't pretend to know everything.