Of course. An intellectual used to moving in the highest cultural circles, a self-made man, a publisher of a national magazine . . . worst of all, he never gave Mary even a first glance. And twice the man of any of Mary's suitors.
People tend to brush out what Mary says and does. How horrible is she for saying Edith is worthless of love by what she thought of as a decent man. She is selfish and hateful for her own sister. What a sad mesrible sister she is.
I felt so bad for Edith in this episode. Nobody in the family was helping her get through her grief. And for anyone criticizing her actions in this episode, I think it's unlikely that she expected the family to go into mourning for Michael for a prolonged period like they did Matthew. I think what she expected was for the family to show a little empathy and not schedule some picnic the next day. I also have to say something about the argument that Edith should have known that Michael was dead. The fact remains that she had no confirmation. There's also the fact that Michael was missing for a mere two years. That is not an unreasonable time to hold out at least some hope. It should also be pointed out that Edith did acknowledge earlier that there was a possibility that Michael was dead, but I can hardly fault her for hanging on to a thread of hope for just two years. I also have to say that Mary was an unbelievable piece of garbage in this episode. We've all seen the clips where she attacked Edith for being upset about the haircut and Mary scheduling the picnic for the next day with pretty much no provocation on Edith's end. I see that this clip includes the part where Mary makes that joke to Anna about Edith and Michael. The fact that Anna was shocked and rebuked her for it is really telling. I'm willing to bet that Carson too would have been disappointed to hear his little "golden child" making jokes like that.
@invisible.fatman how old are you? You sound like someone with very little life experience who has lived the sheltered life of an only child. Every word drips of someone who has no siblings and lacks any so called empathy at all
Ok everyone, look. Yes, he was a married man, and yes, he wasn't as close to the family as Matthew had been. But they could at least have shown a bit more tact and sympathy, no? I mean, Mary herself admitted that she was sorry and that he was a nice man...to Anna! It's like, Mary dear, you should be saying that to your grieving sister, don't you think? Sigh... Everyone was walking around eggshells with Mary six months after Matthew died, Edith included. Here...they carry on as if it were just any other day. And fine, they don't have to go into mourning, or radically disrupt their lives; he wasn't family, they barely knew him. But again, a bit more tact and kindess, and certainly not dismiss they way she was feeling would have gone a long way.
Especially knowing that Michael was only really married on paper. His wife wasn't actually there which made the whole situation a lot sadder and a lot more frustrating. Michael was only in Germany because he wanted to marry Edith.
@@cherrytraveller5915 But Edith never told them he the reason he went to Germany was to get a divorce. So in some ways Edith feels responsible for his death! But it's hard to criticize people for that when they don't even know about it
Her mother says Oh poor Edith, but never says that to Edith. Why no one really has any sympathy for her is beyond me. They even go so far as to be a bit against Marigold. The child had no fault in any of it. Mary was just awful.
Well Cora didn’t exactly like being left out of the loop about Marigold being her granddaughter, or Violet’s and Rosamund saying Edith “wouldn’t get rid of it,” but once she found out, she was eager to see her granddaughter and keep her and Edith close to Downton
Yeah, I'm really squinting so see what you mean by being "against Marigold." For this time period, the family are unbelievably accepting of the idea of Edith having and raising an illegitimate child. (To the extent that you just kind of have to assume the writers wanted a lot of drama, but still a happy ending, no matter how unrealistic.) And while I agree Robert and Cora could have been more supportive of Edith on a number of occasions, their skepticism of her relationship with Gregson in particular is pretty understandable.
@@harringt100 What I meant by, kind of against, is that there seemed to be a time or two that Maty's son a Sibby were treated with respect where Marigold was simply tolerated. That's all.
@@patriciajrs46 I think they loved Marigold was loved once they found out she was a part of the family. I don't think it had anything to do with Edith herself so much as adoption of a random child by a single woman being a very unheard of thing then.
In this instance they weren’t cruel. They simply changed the topic. She was frolicking with a married man, even today that is hardly acceptable, and everyone knew he was dead. Even Edith. She really expected she was allowed to mourn like Mary did Matthew. Edith loved to play the victim when she authored the situation.
@@nadinehart8624 She didn't "author" the situation, she loved him! It's neither of their faults that he couldn't get a divorce to his wife just because she was insane. That was the whole point of his trip to Germany in the first place!
They weren’t horrible in this instance. They simply changed the subject as people do. Edith expected them to mourn him like they did Matthew and she wasn’t even married, he was still married (which even today is scandalous) and even knew herself he was dead. Sorry but Edith expected far too much. She fucked a married man and expected people to pity her…ha!
@@nadinehart8624 the couldn't have 5 minute of empathy for their family that just lost the man she lost. But guessing by that petty "ha" i am guessing you just simply hate Edith so cant feel any empathy
@@nadinehart8624 They didn't know Gregson was married, only Matthew and Edith did and since Matthew is gone, only Edith does. All they knew was that Edith loved him and that he was good to her. Edith didn't expect them to mourn Gregson like they did for Matthew. She didn't expect them to wear black. She expected them to support her in her grief like they did for Mary when she lost the man she loved, was understandably depressed and a mother to a newborn son. She expected them to support her in her grief like they did for Tom when he found himself not only heartbroken by the passing of the woman he loved, but also now a single father to a newborn daughter, in a country that isn't his and in a part of society that isn't his. She expected the very basic you expect from family: love and support in a tough situation. She didn't get either. Mary badmouthed her, got away with it and they all left (except for Tom, which is telling by the way) for a picnic the day after Edith got the confirmation that Gregson was dead and had been dead for months. They left their heartbroken and grieving daughter behind the day after she learnt the man she loved was dead. How colder can you get?
@@jojojostar4906 and then she does nothing while Mary says Edith ruins everything not even 48 hours later, all while protecting Mary when Edith calls her out
For all the [wonderfully acted] drama in the lives of the Upstairs folks at Downton, Edith was the one who really deserved a happy ending. I'm the oldest in my family and I watched two sisters deal with 'middle child syndrome' and some of the Lady Edith's troubles do strike home. As for Lady Cora's 'too horrible to think about'... well, sister, you're really not going to like the news in 1945....
A lot of people say Edith was horrible at the beginning of the series but just imagine growing up as the forgotten middle child like she did. A spoiled bully of an older sister who was obviously favoured by Carson who made you feel stupid whenever you opened your mouth to say anything and never got punished for it by their parents. Then along comes your baby sister who your mother obviously adores and your big sister doesn’t bully and actually likes all the while being told you’re the ‘ugly duckling’ of the group as your sisters are so much prettier than you. Anyone would immediately put up barriers and do ANYTHING to finally see their mean, stuck up bullying older sister get some comeuppance for once.
For me Edith is the one character who has the most growth. She matures through the season it to a well rounded woman. Mary didn't actually change through the seasons. I saw one episode last night where we finally noticed an interesting moment. It was the episode where Edith had worked all night on her magazine with Bertie and she was showing her father the result. I finally noticed the look of jealousy on Mary face as Edith showed him the mockup. Her father was genuinely proud which must have been making Mary angry as Edith found something she was really good at that Mary couldn't trump her at. Shows how good the acting was in the show
That's the way it always goes when you've been bullied for a long time. People expect you to just take it because "that's just how she is" and "you can't let her get to you". Even people who don't know the history are going to think you're dramatic or petty if you say anything (let alone do anything).
Honestly her marrying Talbot was the ultimate payback and Edith didn't have to do anything lmao. She was the true Victor of the sisters, she is a Duchess, owns a giant castle rich with history, is a badass editor of a woman run magazine company, has a very involved and loving husband, and lastly an adorable daughter who is loved by her parents. Mary got a leaky Abbey that will go under within 10 years, a husband who doesn't play any attention to her really and has a fetish for cars, and has a distant relationship with her kid because all she does is hand him away to a nanny. At least Edith fonds and frets over Marigold (as seen on the train scene when they were going to Lord Cinderbys (aka her future house) for the first time). I'm watching the series for the 3rd time now, and honestly I was rooting for Mary the first time around and thought Edith was jumping the gun one too many times, but after watching it the more details I see and a more disturbing picture of Edith and her suffering was getting harder to over-look. Also the final series where Mary outs her to Bertie was fücking disgusting and even first watching it I thought it was unforgivable. 3rd time around I now really hate Mary like 70% of the time. Anyways, stan Edith Crawley who is an underrated BAMF.
There were times when Edith should have hauled off and punched Mary in the mouth and vice versa. I couldn't imagine being so hateful to and about my sister. My Mom, may she rest in peace, didn't play that game with either one of us. She nipped it in the bud before it could start.
My father’s wife encouraged her two daughters to do everything they possibly could to make my life a living hell every minute of every day! Her total hatred for me had absolutely NO BOUNDS to the point where she got her daughters to attempt to testify in my divorce against me in favor of my ex. She also paid him to give me some chemicals to cause me to become so sick I almost died! Other than my Dad, my daughter and grandson “I HAVE NO OTHER FAMILY!”
@@patriciajrs46 THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUE ABSOLUTE TYPICAL WOKE HATRED FOR ANYONE BUT YOURSELF! I pray you find yourself in the exact same situation for decades!
@@patriciajrs46 “FIRST SHE WAS NOT OR WOULD EVER BE ANY TYPE OF A MOTHER TO ME! THANK YOU FOR YOUR TYPICAL WOKE MINDSET OF ONLY YOU MATTER!”. I pray you spend decades in the same hateful environment so you just might find an inkling of how damaging the world really is!
After growing up with this type of family, you should be glad she didn't turn into full fledged villainess. People think Edith was whiny and annoying character but the truth was all she needed was love and support from her family. Her family made her feel like an outcast and often dismissed her cry for help as unnecessary tantrum.
I believed there is always one in the family that deals with this type of behavior from family members no one really knows what each is doing to contribute to her sadness…. Mr. Fellows is a Great Writer!! I totally LOVE Downton Abbey… I have seen it over a hundred times!🌻
Michelle Dockery did a great job of finding the balance between Mary the sympathetic character you want to root for, and Mary the complete snobby b*tch.
If Mary was a real person, you definitely wouldn't want to be associated with her. She is the type of person who pretends to be your friend, but the moment you accomplish something, she would ridicule you and make you feel awful about yourself. Who would want that person in their life?
What Marry basically says here is that Edith has nothing that anyone could love. What a terrible person and even more sister she is. At least she should have remembered how painful it is to loose the man you love.
Same, I think she changes (for the best) so much after she starts to write for the magazine and especially after she inherits it and has to figure out owning a business! Her growth is really a wonderful arc
Edith sitting at dinner in complete misery surrounded by a family trying to do everything they can to ignore her -- or increase her pain by pretending nothing happened. The only pity in that house seems to come from the downstairs.
I know a lot of people are saying the family were horrible, but "business as usual" is just kind of how you deal with grief in Britain. Obviously we mourn, but if you're not close to the person, it tends to be a case of just carrying on, and one of the ways people cheer each other up is by taking their minds off it with other things, no matter how mundane. In Edwardian England, and high society no less, "we carry on" would have ESPECIALLY been the case, so Edith can't have really been surprised that they didn't all switch to black mourning clothes like she did. They're unaffected, and it was normal to have a day or so and then keep going... Apart from Mary (as per) none of them were especially malicious or neglectful.
It's more on the fact that no one gave their condolences to her. A simple, "I'm very sorry for your loss, Edith" would have sufficed, but there was nothing.
They seemed to have forgotten they were British after Matthew and Sybil died it seems. Let alone the sacrifices made to keep Mary happy, they were nicer and more understanding to even Tom, the ex chauffeur than Edith.
@@ria0pnk Matthew and Sybil were literally family. That wasn't the case here. He was an acquaintance at best, and to some of them more like a stranger. The circumstances are ENTIRELY different.
Sometimes I wonder about how Edith would react to the news from Germany and Hitler prior to WW2 and during the war. The man that killed Gregson, leading the Nazis.
Indeed, it makes one wonder. Nevertheless, I think that the moment that Edith would find most shocking would not be September 1939, but 1933 when Hitler became Chancellor of Germany. To my mind, it is conceivable that whilst not welcoming the war, that she would possibly see the war as an opportunity to avenge Gregson's death and serve Hitler his just deserts.
This episode changed my opinion of Edith. Didn't much like her before, but I began to like her after this. They all treated her pretty terribly in this episode
You go along thinking your family is a certain way, a certain mindset, maybe even possessing a certain kindness no matter what. And then an event happens and as it turns out many that you thought were one way, turn out to not be what you all along thought . It's like the earth shifts under you.
For the entire series. Mary was never my favorite among the 3 sisters. Yes her love story with Mathew was the one that drew me into the series but Mary has always been a bully, a snob, and super stubborn. My most favorite has always been Lady Sybil, 2nd is Lady Edith, least favorite would be Mary. I was heartbroken when Sybil died and then Mathew died not long after that, i completely stopped watching the series for a few years.Just started watching it again last year but the series is never the same without Sybil and Mathew.
I found Sybil nice but a tad boring. I didn't like her story with Tom at all (they redeemed him later on). There is no development of a romance, nothing that explains them together except his pushing her. When she goes and accepts to elope with him, she says she wants to live that life, not that she loves him. And then he's horrible to leave her alone when they escape in the night.
I get everyones view but the fact is everyone thought that edith and michael were just courting for probably only a few months...no one knew she had a full on relationship with michael and even bore his child....yes i still think just by looking at edith everyone should have known that regardless of what it seemed like she was deeply in love with gregson and should have been comforted in the most graceful way...if it were mary everyone would have probably gone into mourning
@@GoldenRose116 thanks for clarifying that...but there was no ring understandably either...even though once again we know all the details but the family did not...they were just boyfriend and girlfriend in their eyes...
But they knew that he was in Germany in order to marry her. And as they value money, he left his inheritance to her. They should have understood that the relationship was much more serious. I agree that if it were Mary, they would have gone into mourning already.
The direction gives impetus towards Edith moving away to become her own woman away from her family. The series has only briefly explored the power of women away from their homes through Sybil but she died too early for that storyline to blossom. This was in fifth season when the political message had to bear fruit away from nobility. The development feels brute-forced into the storyline as the producers probably did not think the series would get this far.
I get making plans before knowing the news, but it would have meant a lot to cancel the plans or greatly reduce them once the news broke--especially since he died in such a violent way. But my god, the lack of feeling and inhuman responses...jesus.
I cannot stand how everyone in this show belittles and bullies Edith. Treats her horribly belittling her all the time. Like she is a burden taking up space rather than a family member.
If Edith inherited the publishing company, did they ever addressed what happened to the wife that was institutionalized? Who would pay her bills if Edith kept the income source?
We all say "Poor Edith." But I can not simply ignore or forget what she did to Drewes. She used them horribly to keep her daughter close. Basically as free babysitters.
Edith did nothing to the Drew’s! It was Mr Drew who lied to his wife and didn’t explain that Marigold was just a temporary foster situation. Mrs Drew also had 3 other children whom we never hardly saw because she was obsessing over a child that was not even hers!
@@dee8714how do you think you'd feel if you essentially adopted a child, cared for her, loved her, and one day someone just decided to take her from you? Marigold wasn't hers by blood but she was fully ready and committed to being her mother. Of course Edith had a right to raise her own daughter. But she very much wanted to have her cake and eat it too, whatever it did to poor Mrs Drew.
I don’t understand the huge “poor Edith” in the comments. Edith’s character was not blameless. She wrote to the Turkish ambassador. She was horrible to the Swedish adoptive parents and even worse to the Drews. She was as nasty as Mary even if Mary was more effective. Gregson was no more than a friend to Edith by the rest of the family’s knowledge. They didn’t know she planned to mary him or about the kid.
It's not about what she did to Mary in the Pamuk Affair, nor the Swiss adoptive parents or the Drews. It's about Edith in that moment when she learned her lover was dead. And yes, Mary has been callous towards Edith in that instance. And everyone knew pretty well that Gregson was more than a mere friend to Edith and that he was courting her.
@@Xerxes2005yes everyone knew that Gregson, a married man, was courting Edith. Everyone knew Edith's lover already had a wife that he planned to abandon for Edith. (Matthew said it best, men keeping mistresses always seem to conviniently have horrible wives.) Are they supposed to mourn for a man who made their daughter his mistress?
@@ineffablegabe Excuse me, but Matthew believed Michael’s claims about his wife Lizzie, being in a state where she no longer remembers him, and there’s no hope of her ever recovering. That would indicate that Michael was telling the truth. I sometimes wonder what the perception would have been on Edith and Michael’s relationship if Fellowes had taken time to visually confirm that Lizzie was as far gone as Michael said she was.
@@ineffablegabe the man went to Germany to become a german citizen to marry edith. If thats not more honorable than idk what is, he made edith his heir as well
@@betaririzqikaer2451 by going to Germany and making Edith his heir, Gregson, the man you call honourable, completely abandoned his wife. Nobody forced him to marry her, and wedding vows involve "in sickness as in health". If Gregson can have an affair and abandon his wife the moment she's unwell and needs him the most, there's no gurantee that if Edith married him and then got very sick somehow, he won't abandon her for a younger, healthy woman also. Edith dodged a bullet with this dude. Bertie is much better. I don't care much about Edith, but even she deserves better than Gregson.
I’m sorry, but everyone in the family knew he had died, Edith herself knew that for years, yet she expected everyone to mourn him as if he were Matthew (although they were by no means in a formal relationship). She was being totally unreasonable. Of course at least Lord and Lady Grantham could have shown a little more attention and love, but the rules back then were very clear: no ring 💍, no attachment.
I don’t think she expected everyone to mourn him as a brother or son in law, but wanting a little support during a hard time is hardly out of line. Until there was definite confirmation that he was dead and not just missing, there was a sliver of hope. That sliver was dashed away. It’s sad.
@@LadyCheshire95 No, except he hadn't just died the day before, they all suspected that for ages, so she had plenty of time to adjust to the reality that he might be dead. Also, Edith was very gullible, she was ready to accept any man who was giving her the smallest bit of attention (because she was such an attention seeker), so no wonder they didn't take this too seriously. Up until season 5, it seriously looks like Edith's sole purpose in life was to get married, she had the capacity to make herself so insufferable.
@@bogdancristea9270 At that time, ladies of Edith's class and station WERE expected to get married and run a household. Independent career women weren't really a thing back then, although not unprecedented. It wasn't until Edith took full control of the publishing company and finally took charge of Marigold that she became the self-assured woman Bertie Pelham later fell in love with.
NO ONE knew for sure! There had been no mourning for him when he went missing. As long as he was missing, there was always hope. The news of his death dashed that hope. Then was the time for mourning. Even if you had no feelings one way or another for the departed, show some respect for those who did!
@@dee8714 Really? She let the Drew’s adopt her daughter, wouldn’t leave them alone for one second, decides to take Marigold back when she chose as if they never cared about her and acted like Mrs Drew was a nuisance when all she wanted to do was love Marigold. She was amazingly self centered.
@@supermom23 The Drew’s never adopted Marigold. They had her only for a short time. She had to take her when Mrs. Drew started acting completely irrational making any normal contact impossible. And that someone who is calling herself“super mom” doesn’t understand how much you love your children is ironic.
I never said it was, but he's one of my favourite characters. I mean, my favourite character was Sybil, she died. Than my favourite character was Mattey, he died. Now it's Thomas and he left.
I don’t have much sympathy for Edith, who is at best resentful and self-pitying. Mary can be cold and arrogant. Neither of them is a perfect example of a mature adult, but I find it easier to take Mary’s arrogance than Edith’s whining. Sure, her family should have expressed more sympathy but the situation was complicated and the family knew it. The war changed some things but not all.
Completely disagree with you. Mary was alway the golden child and a spoilt brat. All she cared about was being the centre of attention. Both Edith and poor Sybil had far more substance than Mary ever had.
I disliked Edith in the beginning, but she had some of the best character development. She became a writer, married a rich man, and became less spiteful and more understanding. I suspect Mary even knew this; you could see the look of shame on her face when Edith was the one who forgave her for outing Marigold to what’s-his-name. Mary however found a way to become more detestable, but it was understandable seeing as she was a young widow hateful of the world for taking her husband.
The look Anna gave Mary after she said "what he saw in Edith".....
Of course. An intellectual used to moving in the highest cultural circles, a self-made man, a publisher of a national magazine . . . worst of all, he never gave Mary even a first glance.
And twice the man of any of Mary's suitors.
@@steveparadis2978he was nice but I definitely wouldn’t say he’s better than Matthew.
@@tford4588 Agreed. Or even Blake.
People tend to brush out what Mary says and does. How horrible is she for saying Edith is worthless of love by what she thought of as a decent man. She is selfish and hateful for her own sister. What a sad mesrible sister she is.
Edith was a jealous eeyore.
Knowing Michael's death was due to Hitler and a precursor to the Nazi's, I often think how Edith would react when WW2 comes around.
Probably hatred for the man who killed her child's father and ruined their lives
She'd have been extremely anti-Nazi
Mostly horrified and definitely triggered
The man who killed her first born father? Livid
Marigold herself? Utter hatred .
She would have been a teen during his rise to power
@@hannahdyson7129exactly.
I felt so bad for Edith in this episode. Nobody in the family was helping her get through her grief. And for anyone criticizing her actions in this episode, I think it's unlikely that she expected the family to go into mourning for Michael for a prolonged period like they did Matthew. I think what she expected was for the family to show a little empathy and not schedule some picnic the next day. I also have to say something about the argument that Edith should have known that Michael was dead. The fact remains that she had no confirmation. There's also the fact that Michael was missing for a mere two years. That is not an unreasonable time to hold out at least some hope. It should also be pointed out that Edith did acknowledge earlier that there was a possibility that Michael was dead, but I can hardly fault her for hanging on to a thread of hope for just two years.
I also have to say that Mary was an unbelievable piece of garbage in this episode. We've all seen the clips where she attacked Edith for being upset about the haircut and Mary scheduling the picnic for the next day with pretty much no provocation on Edith's end. I see that this clip includes the part where Mary makes that joke to Anna about Edith and Michael. The fact that Anna was shocked and rebuked her for it is really telling. I'm willing to bet that Carson too would have been disappointed to hear his little "golden child" making jokes like that.
That's because she needs to learn to keep a stiff upper lip
@invisible.fatman how old are you? You sound like someone with very little life experience who has lived the sheltered life of an only child. Every word drips of someone who has no siblings and lacks any so called empathy at all
mary had a man to die in her bed.
Mary has no right to talk about her sister.with that man dieing in her bed.
Yeah Hope is a very insidious thing. And people have gone missing with more noise than Gregson did and turned up alive somehow years later
Ok everyone, look. Yes, he was a married man, and yes, he wasn't as close to the family as Matthew had been. But they could at least have shown a bit more tact and sympathy, no? I mean, Mary herself admitted that she was sorry and that he was a nice man...to Anna! It's like, Mary dear, you should be saying that to your grieving sister, don't you think? Sigh...
Everyone was walking around eggshells with Mary six months after Matthew died, Edith included. Here...they carry on as if it were just any other day. And fine, they don't have to go into mourning, or radically disrupt their lives; he wasn't family, they barely knew him. But again, a bit more tact and kindess, and certainly not dismiss they way she was feeling would have gone a long way.
Especially knowing that Michael was only really married on paper. His wife wasn't actually there which made the whole situation a lot sadder and a lot more frustrating. Michael was only in Germany because he wanted to marry Edith.
Very good point.
@@cherrytraveller5915 But Edith never told them he the reason he went to Germany was to get a divorce. So in some ways Edith feels responsible for his death! But it's hard to criticize people for that when they don't even know about it
@@patrickmcguire7896I'm sure she had told them, off camera
Her mother says Oh poor Edith, but never says that to Edith. Why no one really has any sympathy for her is beyond me. They even go so far as to be a bit against Marigold. The child had no fault in any of it. Mary was just awful.
Well Cora didn’t exactly like being left out of the loop about Marigold being her granddaughter, or Violet’s and Rosamund saying Edith “wouldn’t get rid of it,” but once she found out, she was eager to see her granddaughter and keep her and Edith close to Downton
Yeah, I'm really squinting so see what you mean by being "against Marigold." For this time period, the family are unbelievably accepting of the idea of Edith having and raising an illegitimate child. (To the extent that you just kind of have to assume the writers wanted a lot of drama, but still a happy ending, no matter how unrealistic.) And while I agree Robert and Cora could have been more supportive of Edith on a number of occasions, their skepticism of her relationship with Gregson in particular is pretty understandable.
@@harringt100 What I meant by, kind of against, is that there seemed to be a time or two that Maty's son a Sibby were treated with respect where Marigold was simply tolerated. That's all.
It's suggested that Edith's homely appearance and lack of charm was an embarrassment to the family. Of course she triumphed in the end.
@@patriciajrs46 I think they loved Marigold was loved once they found out she was a part of the family. I don't think it had anything to do with Edith herself so much as adoption of a random child by a single woman being a very unheard of thing then.
There's no cruelty worse than from one's own family.
In this instance they weren’t cruel. They simply changed the topic. She was frolicking with a married man, even today that is hardly acceptable, and everyone knew he was dead. Even Edith. She really expected she was allowed to mourn like Mary did Matthew. Edith loved to play the victim when she authored the situation.
Lady Mary was horrible to her sister. A lot!! I think many things about Mary.
@@nadinehart8624 She didn't "author" the situation, she loved him! It's neither of their faults that he couldn't get a divorce to his wife just because she was insane. That was the whole point of his trip to Germany in the first place!
Truth
Lucky Edith didnt hear Mary then
" dont know what he saw in Edith" really?
The whole family was horrible towards Edith in this episode. It is no wonder she left and didn't plan to return
They weren’t horrible in this instance. They simply changed the subject as people do. Edith expected them to mourn him like they did Matthew and she wasn’t even married, he was still married (which even today is scandalous) and even knew herself he was dead. Sorry but Edith expected far too much. She fucked a married man and expected people to pity her…ha!
@@nadinehart8624 the couldn't have 5 minute of empathy for their family that just lost the man she lost. But guessing by that petty "ha" i am guessing you just simply hate Edith so cant feel any empathy
@@nadinehart8624 They didn't know Gregson was married, only Matthew and Edith did and since Matthew is gone, only Edith does. All they knew was that Edith loved him and that he was good to her.
Edith didn't expect them to mourn Gregson like they did for Matthew.
She didn't expect them to wear black.
She expected them to support her in her grief like they did for Mary when she lost the man she loved, was understandably depressed and a mother to a newborn son.
She expected them to support her in her grief like they did for Tom when he found himself not only heartbroken by the passing of the woman he loved, but also now a single father to a newborn daughter, in a country that isn't his and in a part of society that isn't his.
She expected the very basic you expect from family: love and support in a tough situation.
She didn't get either.
Mary badmouthed her, got away with it and they all left (except for Tom, which is telling by the way) for a picnic the day after Edith got the confirmation that Gregson was dead and had been dead for months.
They left their heartbroken and grieving daughter behind the day after she learnt the man she loved was dead. How colder can you get?
Cora wanted to comfort her, but Robert said to give her space.
@@jojojostar4906 and then she does nothing while Mary says Edith ruins everything not even 48 hours later, all while protecting Mary when Edith calls her out
For all the [wonderfully acted] drama in the lives of the Upstairs folks at Downton, Edith was the one who really deserved a happy ending. I'm the oldest in my family and I watched two sisters deal with 'middle child syndrome' and some of the Lady Edith's troubles do strike home.
As for Lady Cora's 'too horrible to think about'... well, sister, you're really not going to like the news in 1945....
A lot of people say Edith was horrible at the beginning of the series but just imagine growing up as the forgotten middle child like she did.
A spoiled bully of an older sister who was obviously favoured by Carson who made you feel stupid whenever you opened your mouth to say anything and never got punished for it by their parents. Then along comes your baby sister who your mother obviously adores and your big sister doesn’t bully and actually likes all the while being told you’re the ‘ugly duckling’ of the group as your sisters are so much prettier than you.
Anyone would immediately put up barriers and do ANYTHING to finally see their mean, stuck up bullying older sister get some comeuppance for once.
I no longer speak to my older brother for pretty much the same reasons. And I wasn't even the "middle child."
Well said 👍
For me Edith is the one character who has the most growth. She matures through the season it to a well rounded woman. Mary didn't actually change through the seasons. I saw one episode last night where we finally noticed an interesting moment. It was the episode where Edith had worked all night on her magazine with Bertie and she was showing her father the result. I finally noticed the look of jealousy on Mary face as Edith showed him the mockup. Her father was genuinely proud which must have been making Mary angry as Edith found something she was really good at that Mary couldn't trump her at. Shows how good the acting was in the show
That's the way it always goes when you've been bullied for a long time. People expect you to just take it because "that's just how she is" and "you can't let her get to you". Even people who don't know the history are going to think you're dramatic or petty if you say anything (let alone do anything).
Honestly her marrying Talbot was the ultimate payback and Edith didn't have to do anything lmao. She was the true Victor of the sisters, she is a Duchess, owns a giant castle rich with history, is a badass editor of a woman run magazine company, has a very involved and loving husband, and lastly an adorable daughter who is loved by her parents. Mary got a leaky Abbey that will go under within 10 years, a husband who doesn't play any attention to her really and has a fetish for cars, and has a distant relationship with her kid because all she does is hand him away to a nanny. At least Edith fonds and frets over Marigold (as seen on the train scene when they were going to Lord Cinderbys (aka her future house) for the first time).
I'm watching the series for the 3rd time now, and honestly I was rooting for Mary the first time around and thought Edith was jumping the gun one too many times, but after watching it the more details I see and a more disturbing picture of Edith and her suffering was getting harder to over-look. Also the final series where Mary outs her to Bertie was fücking disgusting and even first watching it I thought it was unforgivable. 3rd time around I now really hate Mary like 70% of the time. Anyways, stan Edith Crawley who is an underrated BAMF.
There were times when Edith should have hauled off and punched Mary in the mouth and vice versa. I couldn't imagine being so hateful to and about my sister. My Mom, may she rest in peace, didn't play that game with either one of us. She nipped it in the bud before it could start.
My father’s wife encouraged her two daughters to do everything they possibly could to make my life a living hell every minute of every day! Her total hatred for me had absolutely NO BOUNDS to the point where she got her daughters to attempt to testify in my divorce against me in favor of my ex. She also paid him to give me some chemicals to cause me to become so sick I almost died! Other than my Dad, my daughter and grandson “I HAVE NO OTHER FAMILY!”
Good for your Mom.
@@nanabutnerWow! That's awful.
@@patriciajrs46 THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUE ABSOLUTE TYPICAL WOKE HATRED FOR ANYONE BUT YOURSELF! I pray you find yourself in the exact same situation for decades!
@@patriciajrs46 “FIRST SHE WAS NOT OR WOULD EVER BE ANY TYPE OF A MOTHER TO ME! THANK YOU FOR YOUR TYPICAL WOKE MINDSET OF ONLY YOU MATTER!”. I pray you spend decades in the same hateful environment so you just might find an inkling of how damaging the world really is!
Edith was no saint but the family could’ve at least shown some kindness to her
After growing up with this type of family, you should be glad she didn't turn into full fledged villainess.
People think Edith was whiny and annoying character but the truth was all she needed was love and support from her family. Her family made her feel like an outcast and often dismissed her cry for help as unnecessary tantrum.
Mr Drew was most empathetic of them all.
I believed there is always one in the family that deals with this type of behavior from family members no one really knows what each is doing to contribute to her sadness…. Mr. Fellows is a Great Writer!! I totally LOVE Downton Abbey… I have seen it over a hundred times!🌻
Michelle Dockery did a great job of finding the balance between Mary the sympathetic character you want to root for, and Mary the complete snobby b*tch.
That's why Mary was my favorite, even tho I wanted to strangle her half the time.
If Mary was a real person, you definitely wouldn't want to be associated with her. She is the type of person who pretends to be your friend, but the moment you accomplish something, she would ridicule you and make you feel awful about yourself. Who would want that person in their life?
Didn’t see much of the sympathetic character in Mary.
Mary was repellant in every way.
What Marry basically says here is that Edith has nothing that anyone could love.
What a terrible person and even more sister she is.
At least she should have remembered how painful it is to loose the man you love.
Kourtney and Kim Kardashian they just couldn't get along
Poor Lady Edith.
She gets her own back. She married Bertie and became a marchioness, outranking her father who was delighted and Mary who wasn’t !
A very emotional event for Lady Edith...
I hated Edith from the jump but at the end of the series I loved her. She was my favorite character.
Same, I think she changes (for the best) so much after she starts to write for the magazine and especially after she inherits it and has to figure out owning a business! Her growth is really a wonderful arc
She changed and grew A LOT as the series went on.
I was rooting for her later in the series and I'm glad she found happiness at the end.
This series will always fascinate me! ❤
It would be so much better if everyone were in blackface
@@earlofwickshire5416 there always has to be one doesn't there
Love this series
In the end, Edith finds love, riches and having her daughter back.🎉❤. In the end Mary finally finds the right man, who doesn't die!!
You haven't seen the second movie.👀
I miss this show a lot.
“I’ll be as solemn as a church when I go down” 🔥🔥🔥
sorry, but I find it funny…Lady Mary never disappoints 🤣🤣🤣
Isn't that pretentious?
Mary always disappointes
Edith sitting at dinner in complete misery surrounded by a family trying to do everything they can to ignore her -- or increase her pain by pretending nothing happened. The only pity in that house seems to come from the downstairs.
Excellent video greetings from Spain 🇪🇸❤❤
Mary just cannot be nice.
I know a lot of people are saying the family were horrible, but "business as usual" is just kind of how you deal with grief in Britain. Obviously we mourn, but if you're not close to the person, it tends to be a case of just carrying on, and one of the ways people cheer each other up is by taking their minds off it with other things, no matter how mundane. In Edwardian England, and high society no less, "we carry on" would have ESPECIALLY been the case, so Edith can't have really been surprised that they didn't all switch to black mourning clothes like she did. They're unaffected, and it was normal to have a day or so and then keep going... Apart from Mary (as per) none of them were especially malicious or neglectful.
They didn’t try cheering up Edith tho, they literally just ignored her . . .
It's more on the fact that no one gave their condolences to her. A simple, "I'm very sorry for your loss, Edith" would have sufficed, but there was nothing.
They seemed to have forgotten they were British after Matthew and Sybil died it seems. Let alone the sacrifices made to keep Mary happy, they were nicer and more understanding to even Tom, the ex chauffeur than Edith.
@@ria0pnk Matthew and Sybil were literally family. That wasn't the case here. He was an acquaintance at best, and to some of them more like a stranger. The circumstances are ENTIRELY different.
@@LilyGrace95he was important to their daughter.
Sometimes I wonder about how Edith would react to the news from Germany and Hitler prior to WW2 and during the war. The man that killed Gregson, leading the Nazis.
Indeed, it makes one wonder. Nevertheless, I think that the moment that Edith would find most shocking would not be September 1939, but 1933 when Hitler became Chancellor of Germany. To my mind, it is conceivable that whilst not welcoming the war, that she would possibly see the war as an opportunity to avenge Gregson's death and serve Hitler his just deserts.
This episode changed my opinion of Edith. Didn't much like her before, but I began to like her after this. They all treated her pretty terribly in this episode
How did the staff have more empathy than her family?
Will Downton Abbey the TV series return to Masterpiece Theatre or Netflix in 2023 or 2024? I hope so. We miss our all time favorite series of all time
You go along thinking your family is a certain way, a certain mindset, maybe even possessing a certain kindness no matter what. And then an event happens and as it turns out many that you thought were one way, turn out to not be what you all along thought . It's like the earth shifts under you.
For the entire series. Mary was never my favorite among the 3 sisters. Yes her love story with Mathew was the one that drew me into the series but Mary has always been a bully, a snob, and super stubborn. My most favorite has always been Lady Sybil, 2nd is Lady Edith, least favorite would be Mary. I was heartbroken when Sybil died and then Mathew died not long after that, i completely stopped watching the series for a few years.Just started watching it again last year but the series is never the same without Sybil and Mathew.
Also stopped watching after Matthew died. At that point it seemed like no one would ever know happiness at Downtown abbey.
I found Sybil nice but a tad boring. I didn't like her story with Tom at all (they redeemed him later on). There is no development of a romance, nothing that explains them together except his pushing her. When she goes and accepts to elope with him, she says she wants to live that life, not that she loves him. And then he's horrible to leave her alone when they escape in the night.
The way Edith used that poor woman, then wrenched her child out of her life, was heartless and heartbreaking.
You have to consider the societal reasons. People are victims of the times they live in.
Mrs Drew was totally bonkers. Marigold deserved better
That whole scheme was bonkers
Aw, poor Edith. Mikey's officially dead.
I get everyones view but the fact is everyone thought that edith and michael were just courting for probably only a few months...no one knew she had a full on relationship with michael and even bore his child....yes i still think just by looking at edith everyone should have known that regardless of what it seemed like she was deeply in love with gregson and should have been comforted in the most graceful way...if it were mary everyone would have probably gone into mourning
They had been together from late 1920 till early 1923, that is 2 and a half year
@@GoldenRose116 thanks for clarifying that...but there was no ring understandably either...even though once again we know all the details but the family did not...they were just boyfriend and girlfriend in their eyes...
But they knew that he was in Germany in order to marry her. And as they value money, he left his inheritance to her. They should have understood that the relationship was much more serious. I agree that if it were Mary, they would have gone into mourning already.
Anna is sooooo beautiful ❤
Only point in the whole series I hated the family
Day 24 asking for season 7 or a 3rd movie PLEASE
4:11 honey you’ve got a big storm comin
The direction gives impetus towards Edith moving away to become her own woman away from her family. The series has only briefly explored the power of women away from their homes through Sybil but she died too early for that storyline to blossom. This was in fifth season when the political message had to bear fruit away from nobility. The development feels brute-forced into the storyline as the producers probably did not think the series would get this far.
I get making plans before knowing the news, but it would have meant a lot to cancel the plans or greatly reduce them once the news broke--especially since he died in such a violent way. But my god, the lack of feeling and inhuman responses...jesus.
I cannot stand how everyone in this show belittles and bullies Edith. Treats her horribly belittling her all the time. Like she is a burden taking up space rather than a family member.
I never got to like Mary because of how she would treat Edith, after 6 seasons I couldn’t root for her at all
If Edith inherited the publishing company, did they ever addressed what happened to the wife that was institutionalized? Who would pay her bills if Edith kept the income source?
Is this show still on
Nope, it's finally over. It ended in 2015 and they had two movies come out in 2019 and 2022.
Traduire en Français. Merci
We all say "Poor Edith." But I can not simply ignore or forget what she did to Drewes. She used them horribly to keep her daughter close. Basically as free babysitters.
Yes because she had the option of paid ones. 🙄
Edith did nothing to the Drew’s! It was Mr Drew who lied to his wife and didn’t explain that Marigold was just a temporary foster situation. Mrs Drew also had 3 other children whom we never hardly saw because she was obsessing over a child that was not even hers!
@@dee8714how do you think you'd feel if you essentially adopted a child, cared for her, loved her, and one day someone just decided to take her from you? Marigold wasn't hers by blood but she was fully ready and committed to being her mother. Of course Edith had a right to raise her own daughter. But she very much wanted to have her cake and eat it too, whatever it did to poor Mrs Drew.
Awh Mr Drewe offered.
I disagree Mr. Drewe knew everything and went along with it he even helped coming up with ideas though I do feel bad for the mrs
Day 23 of asking for season 7 or a 3rd movie!!!! 😊😊😊😊
I don’t understand the huge “poor Edith” in the comments. Edith’s character was not blameless. She wrote to the Turkish ambassador. She was horrible to the Swedish adoptive parents and even worse to the Drews. She was as nasty as Mary even if Mary was more effective. Gregson was no more than a friend to Edith by the rest of the family’s knowledge. They didn’t know she planned to mary him or about the kid.
It's not about what she did to Mary in the Pamuk Affair, nor the Swiss adoptive parents or the Drews. It's about Edith in that moment when she learned her lover was dead. And yes, Mary has been callous towards Edith in that instance. And everyone knew pretty well that Gregson was more than a mere friend to Edith and that he was courting her.
@@Xerxes2005yes everyone knew that Gregson, a married man, was courting Edith. Everyone knew Edith's lover already had a wife that he planned to abandon for Edith.
(Matthew said it best, men keeping mistresses always seem to conviniently have horrible wives.)
Are they supposed to mourn for a man who made their daughter his mistress?
@@ineffablegabe Excuse me, but Matthew believed Michael’s claims about his wife Lizzie, being in a state where she no longer remembers him, and there’s no hope of her ever recovering. That would indicate that Michael was telling the truth. I sometimes wonder what the perception would have been on Edith and Michael’s relationship if Fellowes had taken time to visually confirm that Lizzie was as far gone as Michael said she was.
@@ineffablegabe the man went to Germany to become a german citizen to marry edith. If thats not more honorable than idk what is, he made edith his heir as well
@@betaririzqikaer2451 by going to Germany and making Edith his heir, Gregson, the man you call honourable, completely abandoned his wife.
Nobody forced him to marry her, and wedding vows involve "in sickness as in health".
If Gregson can have an affair and abandon his wife the moment she's unwell and needs him the most, there's no gurantee that if Edith married him and then got very sick somehow, he won't abandon her for a younger, healthy woman also.
Edith dodged a bullet with this dude.
Bertie is much better.
I don't care much about Edith, but even she deserves better than Gregson.
😐 💙 💜
Quintessential narcissistic family dynamic. Awful.
I’m sorry, but everyone in the family knew he had died, Edith herself knew that for years, yet she expected everyone to mourn him as if he were Matthew (although they were by no means in a formal relationship). She was being totally unreasonable. Of course at least Lord and Lady Grantham could have shown a little more attention and love, but the rules back then were very clear: no ring 💍, no attachment.
You think it unreasonable to ask for support in a sad time?
I don’t think she expected everyone to mourn him as a brother or son in law, but wanting a little support during a hard time is hardly out of line. Until there was definite confirmation that he was dead and not just missing, there was a sliver of hope. That sliver was dashed away. It’s sad.
@@LadyCheshire95 No, except he hadn't just died the day before, they all suspected that for ages, so she had plenty of time to adjust to the reality that he might be dead. Also, Edith was very gullible, she was ready to accept any man who was giving her the smallest bit of attention (because she was such an attention seeker), so no wonder they didn't take this too seriously. Up until season 5, it seriously looks like Edith's sole purpose in life was to get married, she had the capacity to make herself so insufferable.
@@bogdancristea9270 At that time, ladies of Edith's class and station WERE expected to get married and run a household. Independent career women weren't really a thing back then, although not unprecedented. It wasn't until Edith took full control of the publishing company and finally took charge of Marigold that she became the self-assured woman Bertie Pelham later fell in love with.
NO ONE knew for sure! There had been no mourning for him when he went missing. As long as he was missing, there was always hope. The news of his death dashed that hope. Then was the time for mourning. Even if you had no feelings one way or another for the departed, show some respect for those who did!
Edith was often very selfish. Her bright moment was when she was caring for the emotional needs of injured soldiers.
Huh! Edith was the least selfish out of the entire family!
@@dee8714I think she shares that place with Sybil
@@dee8714 Really? She let the Drew’s adopt her daughter, wouldn’t leave them alone for one second, decides to take Marigold back when she chose as if they never cared about her and acted like Mrs Drew was a nuisance when all she wanted to do was love Marigold. She was amazingly self centered.
@@supermom23
The Drew’s never adopted Marigold.
They had her only for a short time.
She had to take her when Mrs. Drew started acting completely irrational making any normal contact impossible.
And that someone who is calling herself“super mom” doesn’t understand how much you love your children is ironic.
@@Celisar1 Thank you for the unnecessary insult but it wasn’t a short period of time. It was a year or two at least. And Mrs. Drew was attached
Day 21 asking for season 7 or a 3rd movie
Honestly, with Thomas in America and without the Countess Dowager it wouldn't be as good...
@urarakasstan5144 true buttttttttttttttt.......... who says she won't come back to life and thoams won't come back- (joking btw ofc not to be rude ☺️)
@@heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy924 The series was not about Thomas!
I never said it was, but he's one of my favourite characters. I mean, my favourite character was Sybil, she died. Than my favourite character was Mattey, he died. Now it's Thomas and he left.
@urarakasstan5144 same! They show so much reality in him, how ones trauma can make someone bitter but even through that they can change!
Day 22 of asking for season 7 or a 3rd movie
This is shocking they all are men dressed as ladies.
It's just a tv show.
So did the maids dress them from naked to the end??
When your clothes all involve buttons down your back and corsets, yes you need help getting dressed.
I don’t have much sympathy for Edith, who is at best resentful and self-pitying. Mary can be cold and arrogant. Neither of them is a perfect example of a mature adult, but I find it easier to take Mary’s arrogance than Edith’s whining. Sure, her family should have expressed more sympathy but the situation was complicated and the family knew it. The war changed some things but not all.
Completely disagree with you. Mary was alway the golden child and a spoilt brat. All she cared about was being the centre of attention. Both Edith and poor Sybil had far more substance than Mary ever had.
I disliked Edith in the beginning, but she had some of the best character development. She became a writer, married a rich man, and became less spiteful and more understanding. I suspect Mary even knew this; you could see the look of shame on her face when Edith was the one who forgave her for outing Marigold to what’s-his-name.
Mary however found a way to become more detestable, but it was understandable seeing as she was a young widow hateful of the world for taking her husband.
Give that woman some acting lessons for god's sake!!!