Hey everyone, I just watched the breakdown of Tamplin's recent lip-synching. As much as I may disagree with some of Ken's thoughts on vocal technique (there's always more room for debate there), nothing frustrated me quite as much as Ken's blatant disrespect and disregard for other voice teachers. It's always seemed to come from such an ugly place. This scandal seemed like an opportunity for Ken to actually admit that we're all human and make mistakes (both vocally and ethically). I'm sorry to see that he still hasn't grown.
Fil from the wings of Pegasus showed one of Ken tamplin awesome abilities During one of his recreations of a song he literally has the amazing ability to stop close his mouth and still keep on singing.
@@WideCuriosity absolutely. He teaches this in his one on one private lessons which should cost 750USD/hour. It's a super advanced technique and the best kept secret ever. Most of the pro singers are not aware of this secret technique.
A bit surprised this was top of the page on my recommendations today. I initially thought you must be speaking on the latest scandal, uncovered by Wings of Pegasus, that is all over UA-cam. Then I start it, knowing you weren't overly enamoured with Ken from previous videos you made, and suddenly a 4 years younger you appears 🙂. I guess the scandal has encouraged the UA-cam algorithm to bring this up.
When I developed polyps years ago due to a very bad flu/cough and had to consult an ENT doctor. The first thing he asked if I sing and the next he asked if I used SLS. I asked why and he replied, “If you do, STOP! Cos SLS has the highest casualty rate in the world.”
I've been a singing teacher and session singer for 25yrs. I made the most progress in my own singing journey with SLS and Bel Canto. I've watched a few videos today on UA-cam claiming Mix singing is better than SLS, when Speech Level Singing IS Mix singing. Then I saw some coaches claim SLS only creates a light voice, when I've used aspects of SLS successfully with metal singers, including myself! Basically, a lot of UA-cam coaches are talking in riddles to sell programs. Bel Canto is where it's at. I advertise myself as a Mix Singing teacher, because I use aspects of several methods and never wanted to be attached solely to one brand. Good video, thanks!
my problem with SLS, and to some degree Ken Tamplin is that they talk about "neutral larynx" which is a complete lie if you want to go up in a "chest" or "mixed voice", (terms that mean something different depending on who uses it). It wasn't until I read about better, more scientific-based methods, that I was even able to make a sound above E4. SLS does get some things right, but the fact that it has basic inaccuracies like that makes it mediocre in my opinion
If I may chime in, having had experience with both methods. It seems whenever I hear an SLS teacher demonstating a transition from chest to head, head voice many times seems to be connected, but sounds less chesty. SLS seems a better fit for those wishing to sing lighter, more head voice, falsetto vocals, where Ken's method brings you further development to be able to belt out more chesty, punchy, power vocals.
VIDEOHEREBOB I can see this on Ken’s part at least. His students and himself sing rock ballads and have powerful vocals. Although he tries to say it’s a generalized approach and it’s good for any style of singing and you are building Your singing “muscles”.
Excellent Video! Apologies for the intrusion, I would love your thoughts. Have you thought about - Chiveard Unique Speech Framework (erm, check it on google should be there)? It is a good one off product for learning how to give an outstanding wedding speech minus the hard work. Ive heard some incredible things about it and my BF finally got astronomical success with it.
This is a great conversation!!! I would agree that Ken tends to prefer a more chest dominant mixed voice and SLS treads a little (emphasis on little) more lightly. I believe that's because Ken comes from more of a chest dominant background and his voice sounds better when he performs that way. However, I've still seen some of the best belters in the world who were SLS trained all their lives.
@@ramseyvoicestudio True Matt, but I believe as a gigging singer, you have to seriously train those balls-to-the-wall belts or super T/A dominant configurations. A lot of singers just don't purposefully go there, that next level(s). That place where it gets very, very challenging and where breath capacity and breath pressure management become majorly important.
Tamplin teaches bridging in stages. His method comes in 5 parts, only in the first part are you bridging at E4/A4. By the second, you're bridging much later.
Good to know. I remember him giving the idea of a space shuttle shedding its different compartments. I believe that brought a Tenor through the second bridge up to C5.
HI Matt! Thank you for sharing your opinions, I listened to it very carefully. Hope that I will not sound cocky in any way, so I try my best to do it in a very polite way (English is not my first language). First of all I am singing now for about 15 years and tried many different approaches to find, improve and learn to control my voice. I didn't have any natural talent for that so I've just put thousands and thousands of hours to figure it out. I've had many teachers, but I learned most from myself experimenting. I agree with that different techniques work for different people. I just want to share my opinions. I found KT about 3 years ago. For me - what he says completely makes sense. I kind of agree with him about his opinions of SLS. Even though I learned to sing classical in the early days, SLS came in for me by Seth Riggs and Brett Manning's Singing Success after that and practiced it for around 4 years when I was doing musical theatre for about 5 years at that point. I don't wanna say it's not good, because it is good in someway - but what I experienced is that it's just simply not enough for singing challenging vocals and songs or extending yourself to your highest limits. I think to set an example that Michael Jackson, Ray Charles, Michael Bolton or Stevie Wonder worked with Seth Riggs and SLS is irrelevant - because they were already great singers before that! In my whole experience the "proof is in the singing" is acceptable for me - Even though a teacher doesn't have a good voice, he could at least demonstrate the technical aspects of it on his own. I know that I will get criticized for it probably, but even Seth Riggs or Brett Manning is just way out of this. The greatest proof for me when someone shows me a completely average or poor student and shows me what he/she is capable of after X years of learning. In my opinion "Ney" is not even close and couldn't be equal in any way with "Law/Lah". Different vowel shape, larynx and tongue position. In your examples I hear that the highest notes of the scales you show are having a light mix. I think what Ken wanna mention about bridging too early is that SLS always keep yourself in the comfort zone, especially when we talk about the passaggio or bridge. Just because someone can do a NAY-NAY-NAY or NO-NO-NO in a scale doesn't mean that he can sing the same note with a powerful voice in a song! I experienced this in my 4 years in SLS. For example I never heard Brett Manning singing a complete song in his upper register with a heavy chest-oriented or heavy mix. Singing a scale for 5 seconds reaching high notes is totally different than singing a whole song with high notes in it. I think that the vocal cords are simply muscles, we have to train them and it doesn't improve by just moving in the comfort zone always. With some of the SLS examples I could sing up to those high B-s and C-s but I couldn't demonstrate them in a song. Sometimes we have to push past it (i don't mean actually pushing the voice until your voice is gone, just by for example extending chest voice). With Ken's exercises I reached 2-3 semitones higher in a heavy chest mix than before - without feeling any constriction in my throat after 3 month of practicing. That kind of improvement didn't happen with SLS to me. It just throwed me on a completely different level, so that's why I really resonate with his teachings because it just worked for me. But for not to think that I'm a Ken fan or anything, I disagree with him in some topics. For example vowel modifications are cool, if you are speaking english, but for my first language Hungarian - it just doesn't work, it's not general for all languages. I had to find my vowel modifications for my language - for example we cannot alter an english "E" on higher pitches, because everyone who hears it will be aware that it's not a pure "E" and it's """unhungarian"". I actually use many technical stuff from what I learned over the years and not just from Ken, but - classical singing bel canto, Daniel Tompkins (who I learn from nowadays), some stuffs of Chris Liepe (love his approach of experimenting with sounds and not overcomplicating everything technically) and most interestingly some Robert Lunte stuff (even though that I do not agree with him with the most things he teaches). I'm not just talking here, I have some videos uploaded on my channel too. Thank your for reading it, I'm really looking forward to have a nice discussion about this with you!
Oh hi Mark, you bring up some awesome points. So much so that I made you and everyone with these same questions a video. I'm going to pin it to the top of these comments so everyone can learn: www.loom.com/share/41e7bc335f8c4c30b2e89884a2305718
BTW "Ney" is one of the exercises that is advised not to do after a certain point even in Seth's book beecause he says im qouting " Exercises 5 and 6(nay nay) are called high larynx exercises. They use the muscles above your larynx to pull it up. A raised larynx will stretch, and thus thin your vocal cords, making it possible for them to go into the shortened condition necessary to sing high pitches. But again, you are only using these muscles temporarily, just to demonstrate a concept. You don't want to use this technique when you sing. This is not yet speech-level tone production." It's literally in the book, his words, people just tend to ignore it.
@@vegeta1885 True, true - you are right. I personally altered the exercise to my own needs by slightly lowering the larynx and making it "float" freely with "Ney", rather than having it high (or completely low).
I did years of Singing Success before I got introduce to Ken and other more Rock oriented vocal programs that lean more into classical/bel-canto foundations. I'd like to throw my 2 cents here. The biggest difference between Ken and SLS (singing success variation), is that Ken doesn't use consonants (like the n in nay, or g in gee) to teach vocal cord closure, he just focuses on finding the open-throat thru vowels. I don't think either approach is right or wrong, as I had something to learn from both. However, Ken talks about breath support and rib expansion, and singing success never did. In my personal singing journey, the fact that singing success taught little to nothing about breath support, and never mentioned rib-cage-expansion(which is a super common thing to teach in any classical/bel-canto flavored vocal program), really did me a huge disservice. My vocal power and pitch accuracy grew tenfold only after I was given guidance on breath support. Aside from all that, I don't know if the similarities between Ken's program and SLS, are because Ken borrowed from SLS, or because they both borrowed from bel-canto or other ancient classical vocal exercises. Surely SLS did not invent scales.
I agree with some of your points and disagree with some of your points kindly. I've encountered many people who had taken SLS (or SLS influenced) lessons here in Taiwan (including myself), 10 out of 10 sounded thin, and low volume and very "heady" (almost like the "choir-tone" which not very suited for pop music), and some of them were having difficulties going back to their chest voice around E to F# where they can pull that off before they took any lessons. I agree teaching quality varies teacher by teacher, but I think the over emphasis on "relaxing" by sounding weaker and "headier", (which they do here) does more harm than good in my opinion. I may be wrong, but I personally really haven't seen anyone in my area, who originally does not know how to sing, thru SLS, they become a good singer (Or somewhat close to a decent cover singer on UA-cam). I haven't seen anyone be able to do that thru SLS. I have seen people who can sing with less muscle tension, I have seen people who can connect their voice, but when singing with the music, they almost sound identical 1 or 2 years ago (just without the break). So you are probably one of the few successful examples I guess? (I mean it in a good way.) - And for the famous people who had taken lessons from SLS, I personally would not take that as a proof of legitimacy. I think there is a difference between a famous singer (who already sounded very good, very unique, very stylistic, and professional), wants to know more about how to sustain their voice better out of a busy touring schedule, than someone who does not know how to sing (usually pitchy and shaky), but wants to sound like for example: David Bolton or Alicia Keys thru SLS. I personally haven't seen anyone who had done it, nor have I known any professional singers in my area, learned how to sing they way that they sing by a series of exercises that try to connect the 2 registers. - Don't get me wrong, I don't say this to disprove SLS, I just recognize that there is a huge gap between professional sounding singers and amateur sounding singers, that SLS and many other vocal coaches or systems don't seem to able to bridge. And you as a vocal coach I believe you might have encountered a lot of students that are just don't sound good, and they just do not know how to interact with the music, and maybe after a year or two, now they finally know the meaning of every terminology, and now they finally know how to bridge their voice, or sing in a mix, but when it gets to singing with a track, as a performance? it's just... weird? or boring? compare to many cover singers here on UA-cam. I don't know if you've ever had this experience, but I myself have seen this a lot. And I just don't see a future for these people 5 years from now, by doing these same excises everyday, will get them anywhere. But that's just my opinion. - Lastly, I kind of encourage students to question their teacher rather than just trust everything that they say. But I agree with you that there needs to be a chemistry or some kind of mutual trust. But I also think that every teacher has their limitation in knowledge and experience, no one has every solution to every problem, sometimes good questioning helps the teacher to grow too.🙂
@@ramseyvoicestudio Ohh wow, you wanna do a video with me? Why? lol I'm ok with it, but we have a time zone difference, I'm 15 or 16 hours ahead of you probably.
Perhaps 1 or 2 years, or even 5 years of training, is simply insufficient time to judge the success of the technique? From what I have heard, it is simple to learn, but difficult to achieve mastery. The professionals, they perhaps have a headstart, as they could already be able to bridge. Not so much for the amateur who have yet to grasp the technique.
@@alunlivemusic Personally, I actually do not believe everyone is able to learn to sing well, especially the older it gets, the more impossible it gets. That's just my observation, and I think reality actually shows that. Now, different teachers or systems might try to give you a reason why it is the way it is, I just don't buy it. Let's be honest, if you ever worked as a singing teacher, or might just have been sitting around a vocal coaching studio, you will find MORE THAN HALF of the people that came in for lessons? They just sound like one of those "Funny American Idol Auditions". And I don't mean it in a mockery way, that's just reality. How many of those people you have seen them turn into one of those who can actually get a golden ticket? I don't mean to actually join the show and get a golden ticket to prove their success, just compare their singing after years of lessons, to some of those who actually go thru American Idol audition, and judge it fair-mindedly, to see if they are actually in the same league or not. So when someone said one system ACTUALLY WORKS, I would ask what exactly is that mean? Is that mean I can turn someone who flips to connect? Or is that mean I can turn someone from amateur sounding to professional sounding? To my impression? I think they want people to believe the latter but actually doing the former. There's nothing wrong with that actually, but I just wish vocal teachers that charge good money can be more clear on what reality actually is. Don't you wonder why no vocal coaches would want to put up a video of them coaching someone who could hardly stay in tune? Or coaching someone who actually sounded funny and fix their problem? Wouldn't that be more helpful and practical and more down to earth then reacting to how professional singers sing? They would love to put up a video about Michael Bolton coming for advise, which you could barely hear the differences before and after, but you would never see a tone deaf now sing so good after lessons.
Umm... Ken just literally said today in his live stream that he knows he might not be the right teacher for everyone and encouraged people to look around. All he said was that ask if the coach can demonstrate and if they have success stories to show (students). And that to me sounds quite legit. Also, I have never, ever heard him say that your vocal chords are getting bigger or stronger like muscles, but rather the muscles you use in singing and your sining ability or skill metaphorically builds up gradually like muscles with training. I must point that I haven't been in his course (or any other for that matter), but I have been looking a lit of different coaches videos in YT. There have been some things here and there that have actually opened to me fully when I saw someone other explaining the same thing. Now, this might have been different if had been in a full course with some coach, but there is also the thing that even coaches are humans and they might use different words etc. and thus have something to connect in someones head that nobody else have been able to teach. That's us as species, for better and for worse. I saw some comments here about bad ecperiences with Ken and I'm not claiming anything about them. I just wanted to point out that in my opinion some of your claims were wrong (which is exactly what you are accusing Ken of doing).
Seth Riggs and Brett Manning helped me tremendously in attempting to sing it. Put it within arms reach of ordinary people like me who didn’t want to make a record deal. Didn’t want to be a UA-cam star, but in my case, just simply wanted to sing in church without cracking and achieve that and that’s all that I want.
I think you are absolutely spot on! Unless you are already very talented and happen to come across a great teacher that provides exactly what you need at that time, then you will likely try many teachers, all of whom will add something to your learning process. I started with Per Bristow's program and loved it but still couldn't eliminate my break. I bought Kens program and can now get through my break but there is too much pressure in my voice and I cannot sing songs with it. I go back to Per's lessons and it helps to release the pressure. I've just discovered Seth Riggs and SLS and I can easily sing high connected notes and loud scales without even thinking about support as I get into the resonance pockets and it's effortless. But I'm still having trouble putting it all together. What I'm saying is no one teacher will give you everything you need in a video or audio program. You will have to either have one to one lessons where the coach can hear what you need and tailor the lessons to that, or you will need to search online for the exercises and information that you need at that point of your singing journey.. and this is not easy as we don't know what we need to get through the many sticking points. Per's course helped me. Kens course has helped me. But I'm still not there yet and so am looking at SLS for the missing pieces of my puzzle. I just wish that private singing lessons were not so expensive! Good luck to you all.
Ok, so I got a vocal coach and KTVA actually taught SLS but labeled it differently. He was doing the exercises lightly throughout the program. He kept on saying monitor for tension and everything should be relaxed. He also did lip trills, and the vowels constantly. I started to understand it and it was the larynx that caused vocal breaks. If you keep it in a natural position you won't break. Not tilting your head in awkward positions or doing weird stuff with your mouth. I even notice when I tilt up the air gets cut off when I do a tongue trill. You have to keep a balanced position the entire time you sing.
I can't speak for SLS, but I have been doing Ken's program off and on for a couple of years and it has made a MASSIVE difference in my voice. I get regular compliments on my singing voice when I sing at church and can sing much higher than I ever thought possible. So his method really does work. I can testify to that.
Hey Zachary, I appreciate your objection. I'm not saying Ken's technique doesn't work. I'm saying that it's built on the work of other geniuses. I respect the notoriety he's brought my profession, however, Ken has built a lot of his studio on his criticism of SLS but was so obviously influenced by it.
@@detroitpolak9904 exactly. My husband is an expert fencing coach (a fencing professor), and could give an Olympic fencer a valuable lesson, but he couldn't come close to beating them in a match. The skills are not the same. But besides that, music isn't a sport, it's an art, and art is not competitive!
3 years ago, I paid Ken Tamplin $400 for an hour of Skype lesson. What did I get out of the lesson. Breathe in through my nose, Mr Tamplin had a cough. Oh, and I’m doing everything wrong so I need more lessons I guess. And when I question one of his moderators in his chat group (about proper breathing technique), I was permanently banned! Oh and I did pay $400+ for his course.
Sorry this happened to you. You might look into my Master Your Voice course where you get actual analysis and feedback of your singing from me, here's the link: courses.ramseyvoice.com/p/master-your-voice-main-page
Seth Riggs wants people to sing with larynx tilting forward and out, basically as you do at 10:55 with bubble lip. He didn’t want what you do next which is the gee gee thing where your larynx rises and falls with pitch. Most people including Ken don’t seem to understand this thing. I recommend folks check opera singer Jack Lavigni video explanation of the difference. Jackson does the exercises with larynx moving up like speaking voice, and Seth just lets him do it. I don’t really understand why people don’t get it. You can physically observe peoples necks and understand what is going on. Then you can tell by the sound.
Just wow... I'm not sure why you would write this comment, but I just checked it out and man..... nobody makes Ken's point for him better than you did with this comment of yours, without realizing it. Bravo.
@@ramseyvoicestudio The proof is in the singing. Can you sing "Livin on a Prayer" by Bon Jovi without lowering the key? Ken did and has videos of two students doing it. Let's see if you actually practice what you preach. The proof is in the singing.
Ken studied with Seth Riggs for several years, with Ron Anderson and many many more, he has said it many times, so I think he understands SLS, im gonna say this very respectfully disagreeing, not trying to be annoying or bashing your video, just truth, No, "Ney" is not the same as LAH because the vowels dont have the same size, neither brightness, ney will get you more in to the mask and in to the twang, and thats just one sound of the voice, you might like it but its not the only way you can sing and the vocal tract will change if you favor a vowel, plus will not open the tract the same way as an Ah, and get all the vowels in there, i suggest you to watch "how to sing any song" from Ken´s channel so you understand what im talking about, its not the same as get all the vowels inside Gih Gih Gih, or ney ney, and you wont be able to reach the same notes in chest voice quality, Because a small or medium vowel, like Gih or Ney will tend to go to head voice for their nature faster than "Ah", the "L" as a matter of fact is really important cause if you watch Ken do it, he doesnt move the jaw as he uses it in LAH, nd you will tend to move the jaw a lot in gig gi or ney ney if you are not taught to NOT do it, and thats one of the main points of that L, plus, it is not an explosive consonant like K, Q T, P or fricative consonants like G, D, B, which are very common in SLS, and when you apply them in singing you will tend, as you go higher to crack a little bit (or a lot if you try to belt) if you dont know how to use them correctly and you will tend , since you train with them to go after them to get the placement and when you raise the volume, the consonants will block the air every time you sing them and you are trained that way in sls, thats incorrect, thats why its important to train with vowels, again when you train with consonants, you will tend not to rise the volume too much at all. and you wont be able to belt in your biggest capacity, doesn't train vocal tract shaping which helps you understand the vocal tract and how to respect the space, the sls programs assume you´ll get that naturally again, that is not taught in the SLS programs SLS doesn't teach the same support that Ken does, I assure you that, watch the video on support from KTVA´s channel, SLS just tells you basically to take a breath, there is no teaching on an engaging in any part of the abdomen at all, not even in the lower part, which i assure you, you are doing even if you dont realize it when you are crossing the passaggio, you might or not, think its "natural support", but some people dont get it, so it HAS to be taught. SLS doesn't train vowel modifications, as far as im concerned because i have "sing for the stars" from seth riggs , set your voice free from roger love, Brett Manning´s singing success, so no, they dont teach vowel modifications and if some of them do now, probably not deeply as KTVA does, and KTVA always did. I could go on and on, you may like SLS but its NOT the same thing, i assure you, its not the same technique, its not the same training, it doesnt teach contiguous phrase singing, its not the same shaping of the tract, the crossing of the passaggio when you are NOT trained, is always taught in a low volume and you will cross early, but thats just a part of the KTVA program stage 1, when you dont have the strenght, if you cant bridge at all, you are supposed to be able to bridge later too, after you trained KTVA for a while, and you have to do it without the help of a consonant, there are tons of things, i could go on and on, and im telling you, if it were only from the perspective of information that you recieve on KTVA, you will understand the mechanics of the voice a lot more than any SLS program, and im not even talking about improving your ability to sing, which will be a lot, so I really hope everybody understands SLS is NOT the same as KTVA.
Hey Gaston, great points. I wish we could have a longer discussion about this because I agree with many of the things you said but I think I would love to demonstrate how there are a few differences of opinion. Not enough time in the day!
I regret buying Ken Templin's course. I wish I could get my money back. It's insanely bad and disorganized. I went to his forum and said I regret buying it and the post got deleted lmao.
@@mipmipmipmipmip-v5x I forgot. It's been years. Over 200 at least I think. Biggest mistake in my life. Unsurprisingly, his course didn't have a money-back guarantee.
I think they are actually the best out there. They use a more scientific approach. And I know many people disagree with me but I am not a fan of using old systems with sometimes very esoteric concepts (especially the open throat shit - when producing a clear powerful tone ur throat is anything but open) Many things from the past have been scientifically disproven, even if these concepts have helped many people. Just because something works in many ways doesn't mean it can't and shouldn't be optimised.
I don’t get Chris liepe as a teacher . I think he seems like a nice dude , but his voice is horrid . His screams are so uncontrolled sounding. I can’t get over how bad his tone and screams are. Idk if he’s in any bands but I can’t imagine myself ever wanting to listen to music with someone singing like that over it .
Good video and regardless of his singing ability with him he comes across as someone full of his own self importance and superiority to all. His big credit is probably his marketing ability which has made him money but that is if you're ruled and judged by money.
Lol! I remember the video where Tristan claimed that Ken is not a baritone because he has a bright timbre and can belt an F5 (and then some). I can't find it anywhere; I think he deleted most of his PopSmack era videos. I think he's grown though since then. A lot of people bash Ken because of the tongue thing and because of the rock-oriented production of his voice. Truth is, he's an accomplished Christian rock singer with a consistent four-octave range and a strong tone & instrument.
Justin C Tristan has definitely been cocky and a bit fishy in his practices. His lesson prices skyrocketed when he became big. But I can’t say much on the matter. A lot of people have questioned his accuracy, individual skill as a vocalist, and pricing - as well as personal things about him.
@@gillianomotoso328 He said he raised prices because he didn't want to spend so much time doing lessons anymore, and eventually he stopped offering them entirely
HalfDuck Really? Wow. Yeah, he strikes me as well-meaning but he’s unfair as well. Granted, he was essentially the first top-tier UA-cam voice teacher that was teaching CVT and went deep delving into many facets of the voice that alongside CVT just weren’t covered by most back then. But he still remains a controversial figure to many.
I agree with this thread. Ken is definitely not a baritone, but he has a GREAT singing voice. His tongue is quite raised and that will be a problem for many students, but he is doing just fine himself.
Hi! I like you channel and subscribe because I enjoy your tips and the value you bring! Thanks! I am a lojal Ken Tamplin student and I have had great benefit and still have! I will put my nose into this, but only want to say that I can get great value from Brett and you, while being a KTVA student. I tell you why! I can easier understand things when I see different angles on the same thing. So for me there is no contradiction! Everybody wins! Atb/Hazze 🇫🇮
Yeah tbh I think ken tamplin is doing some SLS with little modifications, however I think his voice sounds a bit damaged and not clear (appart from the distortion effect). I have a couple months training SLS and oh gosh I have improved drastically! Btw wtf with Ken's tongue lol
Greetings from a fellow vocal coach. You bring up alot of good points. I have Ken's, Brett Manning's, (and Ron Anderson's) curriculum and I noticed the similarities between them long before watching this video to be very striking. It was actually Brett's course that I used to improve my own singing dramatically, and train my students. Some of them went onto become regional contest winners and others signed recording artists. I am not a purist and I find them all to be great teachers. Those are the three I would highly recommend. Keep up the good work.👍
It is indeed strange that Ken Tamplin doesn’t like SLS, especially since he studied for 5 years with Seth Riggs. Even stranger is the fact that Ken has said that the best vocal teacher he had was Ron Anderson. Ron Anderson studied singing with Seth Riggs and held a high position in the SLS organization for years before he left SLS to start a business on his own.
@Nithin Kalyan It is normal that they wanted to start their own buisines. At one time in their career they had to ask themself the question: Do I want to work for SLS or do I want to be SLS?
You also have to consider the target students he's aiming at. If you shift the context from general singing to the rock/metal slant which he heavily caters to, what he says is a little more fair. SLS is going to give you great head voices like Michael Jackson, and surely it'll make one capable of rock singing aswell, but is it the most ideal/efficent? A more chest and belt oriented method will surely be a little more pointed to what some people are looking for, and that's probably not SLS. Also, I haven't done any looking into it but I'm of the impression that SLS doesn't really teach vocal distortion past a slight gritty singing, which is another central thing people go to Tamplin for
@@babuudatha9764 Yea, that's pretty much what i mean. Although there's probably more overlap than the "=" suggests. It As in, KTVA surely still has a beautiful tone, and is fine for pop/soul singing, Tamplin tackled Michael Jackson and the like And likewise, I'm sure there's potential for Rock and metal singing in SLS. In short, both method can make you a good singer at the end of the day, which means you can cross over to the style you trained less for, and still sound ok. It's just how focused and efficient they are at getting you to either end. Like if you train to be an olimpic sprinter, that'll be your speciality, but there'll be some carryover to long jumps say, and vice versa. Once you're an athlete, even if specialized in one thing, you're still generally going to be above average on other sports, just in virtue of being a trained athlete
Hola, yo soy autodidacta hice el curso de SLS, por youtube, a mi me sirvió muchisimo, para cuidarme la voz, y poder cantar sin lastimarme, pero no podia cantar rock, si hubiera ido con un profesor, podria ser que me hubiera guiado para ello, pero hace un mes que Ken puso el curso a 1 dolar y entre, y empece a hacer los ejercicios y en un par de semanas logre el objetivo que queria, encontre el sonido que buscaba para cantar Rock y otros generos, a pesar que Ken diga que SLS no sirve, a mi si que me sirvio y no hubiera podido realizar los ejercicios que Ken propone sin antes haber pasado, por el entrenamiento de SLS. Yo recomiendo empezar con SLS y de ser posible con un profesor y luego probar los entrenamientos de Ken.
As a person who had experience in both SLS and kens method , I can say that no other method besides kens helped me to develop so fast and so good . With SLS I always felt like I have not enough power but kens method helped me to not only gain the power I always wanted but in fact I’m able to control this and back the powerful voice off as much as I want and sing light if I want to. With SLS I couldn’t do that. In fact ken doesn’t really use parts of the SLS in his method . Try something for me real quick , do the Ney Ney exercise and then do this thing with LaH what ken talks about and notice how much more space there is in the back of your throat when you do the Lah’s . Understanding this helped me to really open up my voice . This ken guy might be at times weird and he definitely has some opinions on topics that I do not agree with but damn I do t give a flying f*ck about his opinions , I’m just there to learn how to sing and all those gentle flowers who get insulted by him telling something Negative to you , its just ridiculous. Honestly there is much much more to his method in his course which you can’t see on yt but with his forums , course lessons , yt videos he offers a tremendous amount of Information for you to really understand things . That’s something I’ve never seen before. I’m not getting paid for saying this although I would like to hah but in my humble opinion , getting the money for the course and waiting till it’s on discount was the best investment for my voice I ever made . I can only recommend it. I’m a guy who pays a lot of attention to dynamics in music , and therefore for me the ability to ge t really powerful and then quiet and gentle was really important .
@@ramseyvoicestudio more like sls took some things from bel canto and Ron Anderson. For sure everything in sls is not carbage. The atrophy is a real thing on people doing SLS, they can't seem to stay in chest.
Hey, I love what I have seen! I have an issue though.....I was a pretty decent singer, fairly good mix, could hit, hold an sustain an a4 in a mix and make it sweet, belt up to E5 and my falsetto kinda petered out around a5.....then I stopped singing, for some awful reason, and stopped using my falsetto....it's been 20 years since I used my falsetto and it seems to have atrophied...any chance of getting it back? Thanks for your reply! Be well!
well, Greg, it's possible but maybe not likely. Determination and hard work may get it back, but the voice lowers with age anyway. and disuse of the voice adds to that. Try this video of mine: ramseyvoice.com/head-voice-falsetto/
Sohyang actually learned under SLS. I think with the actual founder! A lot of other great singers use speech level singing such as Natalie Weiss. I feel as though if the information is presented and clicks with the person, I think that's all that matters.
CrazyR I think it was more like 5 but I may be wrong. She said he taught her about mixed voice and took those lessons and mastered the technique herself
@@ramseyvoicestudio I think this fits to Sohyang pretty well. He told her about using mixed voice (she talked about her practice in a korean show) and now she is a master of it..
Hi Matt, I have just listened to your video and I am in agreement with all your comments. I have been subscribed to your channel for quite some time now, and I can get on really well with your teaching. I have tried several online vocal coaches and I mostly use your lessons and those of another American guy, plus I do sometimes use one or two others (but not often). I have tried Ken's teaching in the past, but it wasn't my favourite. On another aspect of singing, please correct me if I am wrong here, but I recently did one of those scale tests (downscale first, then upscale). The singer is then asked to identify with a singer from a given group, etc, and my classification came out as soprano, with a 2.25 octave range! I did another of these tests this week, and after the scales, there were several lists of singers from which one had to be chosen as to whom the person taking the test thought they sang most like, and again I came out as soprano, this time with a 2.3 octave range. Now on the other hand I had an email yesterday from a company called Sage Wise who said classification didn't mean as much as the singer being able to sing as high or low being comfortable to them personally, although he said he thought he was a Baritone but that when he is in "good shape" as he put it, he is more a Tenor. Sorry to have diversed here, but this whole classification thing can get very confusing. I have read a lot about the Fach system but that obviously gets VERY involved. So back to your video, thank you so much for posting this. It really was most interesting and informative. I cannot glean enough info about singing. Kind regards.
Diane Shepherd The FACH can be involved. I myself used to be classified as a Baritone when I first started singing and taking lessons, now I’m considered a Tenor or a “Baritenor” Tenor 2 in choral settings etc. My tessitura is more around middle C (C4) and that is my most powerful singing. I can sing in chest/mix to a C5 or higher depending on how warmed up I am and if it’s a good day haha. Anyway point is classification of what someone is singing wise can be clear cut sometimes and not so clear cut other times from my experience.
Thanks for your comment Diane. There's something to be learned from EVERY technique out there including Ken's. Some may just get you faster than others.
@@AtomizedSound Thank you for taking the time to reply. I quite understand what you are saying. With the classification exercises that I can use (living where we do!), my very first scale test indicated that I was Mezzo. But through a lot of hard work, vocalising and singing, I feel I am soprano now (I maybe would be 2nd soprano as I cannot reach the ABSOLUTE top notes but can sing some songs with pretty high notes, like Mein Herr Marquis and Dream a Dream Elysium, plus some of the "high" songs in musicals.
Hey Diane, post puberty and prior to old age, the voice type stays constant. So you can't train a Bass into a Tenor. You can train a Bass to hit Tenor notes. But the vocal weight and timbre remains that of a bass. You may find this helpful: ramseyvoice.com/voice-types/
@@AtomizedSound Yes I think I know what you mean here. Through regular practice, patience and determination, both my registers have extended pretty dramatically. My chest voice has improved now, but my head voice is much stronger and I feel most comfortable singing the high notes, which have more resonance. This discussion is very interesting and I thank you for taking the time to put your views, and experience, forward.
SLS is a backwards way of teaching Bel canto! e.g SLS starts with closed vowels VS Bel canto Open vowels. Note: Seth Riggs learned the traditional classical way.
For everyone watching this video, remember that at the end of the day, it is only YOUR personal results and whether you improve as a singer or not that matter. Whether you subscribe to Ken Tamplin or Seth Riggs or Brett Manning or Jamie Vendera or any vocal coach out there, what matters is whether YOU (and not anyone else) become better as a singer, which is why I find it totally unnecessary when people debate heavily on which teachers are better. You see, every voice is different, and there is no one-size-fits-all method to help singers become better when it comes to singing. What we do as singers is to just explore and find one that works for us. Hence, if you find that Ken Tamplin makes your voice better, by any means stick to his methods, and if not, go to another teacher that can give you the solution you need. This applies for all other vocal coaches out there. Thanks a ton Matt for this great video.
Have been following Ken since the 90s. His voice and accomplishments of his band “ Tamplin” speak for themselves .This is how you find a phenomenal teacher
Hey GW, I appreciate your opinion. I totally agree that Ken is a great singer. But the best singers are not always the best teachers. To be clear, I think Ken is a good teacher. My video is actually regarding his stance on SLS rather than his teaching itself.
@@ramseyvoicestudio Love Ken, gotta say that... He did missionary/charity work, over in South Sudan, years ago, where Christians were being slaughtered, exiled, homeless, starving, etc, AND did it all from his own money, and good heart! Reestablished whole communities! I don't care what "faith" you are, or even if you have it at all... That was an awesomely, courageous, loving, caring thing to do, for those folks who have NOTHING!! Anyways, so I like Ken... BUT, what YOU said right here is exactly the point that everyone seems to be missing!! I thought I'd point that out, cuz you're absolutely right... This video wasn't about Ken as a singer, or even as a teacher, it is about his stance regarding the SLS technique! You made some really valid points too. People are kinda missing the point, by "defending" Ken, thinking you're hating on him, but that's not even what the video is about...Duh! I thought you gave Ken plenty of credit, and, in no way, was I offended by anything you said here. Good video man, keep up the good work! Oh, and your point on the "chemistry" between the student and teacher, speaks volumes to you're understanding of the craft! Kudos sir, and may God Bless you and yours!
Many great singers have used SLS but they were great before they started using it. Stevie Wonder had vocal problems, probably due to pushing the voice to hard. Seth Riggs method helped him balance his voice, but it didn't build it. The one exception being Michael Jackson and he was great though his voice was very androgyne and lacked depth in the chestvoice. Starting your training with SLS almost always ends up with a weak chestvoice due to too much focus on the passagio and none devolped muscles in the diaphragm. I rather sound like Tom Jones than Adam Lopez, just my opinion.
Just stop the bashing. It does not matter. SLS works for some and Tamplin works for others. This thing about one coach saying why his method is better than another is BS anyway. Do not use another coaches name to boost your own channel or method. Period. This type of advertising just leads to further bashing from the other side and never gets to the bottom of whose method really is better because it just does not matter. Use SLS for pop and Tamplin for belting and rock. There done.
Hey mdew, I apologize if it seems like I'm bashing Ken. I'm not laughing at Ken directly. I respect the notoriety he's brought my profession, however, Ken has built a lot of his studio on his criticism of SLS. So you can see the catch-22 here. If I call him out, then obviously I'm just a hater. But I was sick of all the good folks out there just hearing him bash SLS without a balanced perspective.
Where's the "bashing"? Is that what you call any criticism of someone you're a fan of? Bashing is making a video saying "Ken Tamplin sucks ass! This video is a detailed analysis, and evidence-based counterpoint to Ken Tamplin's flawed claims. Far from anything that could be considered "bashing". Sycophantism doesn't pay.
Interesting content indeed. You showed a few head shots of teachers that have some SLS methods in their teaching at the beginning. Without naming names, do you feel that some of the voice coaches make everything seem far to technical unnecessarily? It almost seems that "on purpose" some of their explanations of the exercise is intended on confusing the viewer (to some degree) making the student believe that only that teacher can "unlock" their singing potential. Thanks!
Hello Ramsey I don't know how to sing at all Can Speech level singing help me to learn how to sing Or it only works for people who already have little knowledge of singing
Not sure how this came up on my suggestions, but I did find it interesting! I have watched some of Ken's videos in the past and also spoke to a few friends that worked through Brett Manning's program. One point I will make....never use people who are absolutely blessed with talent as proof that a method works! When any method is put to the test, you use examples of people that are not as blessed vocally as MJ etc You need examples of individuals who believe they cannot achieve any progress and then wittness a massive change. I am not sure which method, even if there is one, that can genuinely showcase that?? Point is, using A listers as an example of where a method has worked is an awful way to defend any method, singing or otherwise.
Hey Ashua, yes Jacob's puts out a ton of great exercises. The problem is that you often need feedback on HOW you're doing the exercises in order to improve your voice
I mean, the name of his program is "How to Sing Better than Anyone Else." Unless you're planning on being on American Idol, who actually wants to learn to sing better just so they can beat other people? That alone tells you that everything is a competition to Ken, and he is gonna toot his own horn endlessly.
He's talking about being the absolute best you can possibly be. Nothing wrong with that, that's what most of us want. If you don't want that, that's on you.
I am a professional singer and have been a student of the Ken Tamplin Vocal Academy for over two years, and like thousands of others, he has transformed my voice. Beyond that, he is sincere and up front. If he was a fan of SLS or used it in his teachings ,he would be the first to be up front about it and not just try to give it another name. In my experience, his knowledge of music and its key players is vast and deep, and he always gives credit where credit is due. I like many of your videos, but you leave me confused with the way you laugh off such a renowned talent and teacher.
Hey RM, I appreciate your objection. I'm glad Ken's method has brought you results. However, Ken has built a lot of his studio on his criticism of SLS which his technique is directly based on. So you can see the catch-22 here. If I call him out, then obviously I'm just a hater. But I was sick of all the good folks out there just hearing him bash SLS without a balanced perspective.
@@ramseyvoicestudio It's always good to have a balanced perspective. As someone who has used both Tamplin's method and SLS, I can testify that the two methods are extremely different. I'm not going to say that one is better than the other. They both have had their place in my progress, but they are both very distinct very different methods.
I think it’s because ken himself is brushing off a well renowned vocal teacher by falsely discrediting sls which in turn opens himself up to that same criticism. He’s not arguing against his teaching style or taking away from his practices in any way, he’s just exclusively arguing against the point that sls doesn’t work because ken wrongly discredited it.
One of the legit singing channels here. I am glad to see he had the balls to bring it up even years prior to the scandal. Any singer that has learned their stuff and has experience on technique and ear can tell ken is bad. His teaching is bad and scammy also. I always warn newbies. Don't waste yourself time with him. Literally any other major channel will do. Don't waste your time on ken. He can't sing or help you.
Many comments confused me as this viveo did. I don't know nothing about teaching methods and tecniques (at least i know few concepts) but i'm sure this are instruments (in both, teaching and learning side) that have to be combined to get better results Ken gave his thoughts and Ramsey did the same (i don't feel a criticism concerning Ken capacities, i feel a reaction to defend SLS) I don't like to see comments like "this is perfect and unique method" or "All other are not good", they does not help who are in need to find information to study about singing Sure i don't need "fans" that pubblicize without argumes method or talk about miracles I know just a thing: When you want to improve something you need to know all is possible about that and a good teacher teach you three things, how to decide tagets, how possibly achieve them and how to find your own way to amend methods to make them perfect to yourself Honesty of a teacher is impotant too I am pretty sure that everyone can improve but talent and predisposition (i mean both biological and psychological) have the greatest part for higer level singing and this concept must be a part of teaching args. Ramsey did a good job to express a criticism about sls bashing by Ken, i don't think is right saying that i doesn't recognize abilities of Ken, he is simply opemimng a discussion about a concept he does not agree with. But, Ramsey, you skip provocation about singing and i understand (in a good way) why. But for me a Voical coach and reactor could gain a lot of consideration singing an entire song (more than one maybe) and editing a reaction video to himself You all have not to demostrate to be great singers because i don't think is needet to teach, but i think all of you have to show how apply their lessons to yourself As usual :-) i apologize for my bad english i hope it is possible to understand
Dude, you got it! I'm so glad you understand that this is not an indictment of Ken's technique, but rather a discussion of the hypocrisy in how much he was "inspired" by SLS and had the temerity to bash it constantly.
I agree with you and Ken took stuff from SLS but he just took parts of it. I am doing his course. I do not like Gee. I found Nay or Law a lot easier on my voice which helped me find the bright ping. All these exercises do is help you find that spot! It's not hard. Its so you develop muscle memory to be able to go there. It's also a lot like humming. I think Ken explains stuff real well and just gets straight to the point. After about 1 month of consistent practice I was able hit that ping. It just takes time and effort which is why people give or say that I can't sing.
Tbh,i always have question on that 'bridging early Will cost ur belting' problem.i love geoff Tate,and he is always my biggest inspiration who use that technique masterfully.and he said geoff Tate voice now became weaker because of that technique.thats make me really afraid to train my chesty mix and falsetto like geoff tate.
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Good video , I follow both ken tamplin, and sls coaches (Bret Manning , power to sing ) , I think ken has good things in his method , but I feel he never really understood the mix voice sls approach , despite he applies some of its features.
You lost me when you started laughing at another voice teacher each time you tried to explain why he's wrong on things he believes. I am not a voice student of anybody, but I certainly would avoid anybody that I see laughing at another person, because I could see you laughing at me as well. Just my opinion, but might be worth taking a look at that laugh in your voice when you are putting down others.
He's probably trying to leveraged authority by trying to prove a bigger authority wrong and gaining audience from that community , but i believe he's missing the point. If that makes sense!
Hey Nancy, I appreciate your objection. I'm not laughing at Ken directly. I respect the notoriety he's brought this profession, however, Ken has built a lot of his studio on his criticism of SLS. So you can see the catch-22 here. If I call him out, then obviously I'm just a hater. But I was sick of all the good folks out there just hearing him bash SLS without a balanced perspective.
@@ramseyvoicestudio Lol, let me laugh at Ken by myself.. When the first time if we listen to ken's singing, we might think he is wonderful powerful voice... Later you will find out he is one of the worst. His head voice so weak. He always trick audience by doing falsetto at high note. That is terrible singing. He is not singing, he is shouting to sounds powerful. Try Listen to him singing She's Gone, How You Remind Me by Nickelback, Numb By Linkin Park. And many more. Sounds like stupid. He used to condemned old rock singer that were used to be great. Pathetic. His own songs not even good. Can't listen to him even 1 minute. Shouting all the time. He can't even do the mix voice. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Hey Josh, I respectfully disagree. If it's good enough for Anthony Kiedis (rock), Ray Charles (blues) and Stevie Wonder (motown), this technique is good enough for you.
I respectfully disagree with you too sir, ray charles' raspy sound is natural with him. Anthony Keidis style is not purely rock they're in an acid jazz genre. Maybe they have developed their tone even before they went to vocal coaches. i'm not talking about the natural voices of known artists, i'm talking about beginners with no experiences yet. SLS is not enough if your voice have no natural rasp or no power like belting. If SLS is enough maybe you could demonstrate it in real singning rock and belting style singing. Coaches should know how to demonstrate it to be effective coaches.
You may disagree with those particular examples, but certainly you'll see that some of these fantastic singers weren't hurt by sls: www.speechlevelsinging.com/client_list.html
Hard rock singer/vocal coach who utilizes lot of what he is teaching based on SLS MATERIALS right here !! lot of mum mum mum mam mam mam and wee wee wee still gonna contradict ? ua-cam.com/video/hVsYEhKtNVI/v-deo.html
Although the anatomy and physiology, as well as the physics of what makes human phonation possible have been studied scientifically up to the molecular level, a scientific research whose goal is to determine how to produce, by way of vocalization exercises and other means, an efficient, powerful, accurate, healthy, and stylistically appropriate and pleasant singing voice does not yet exist. There have been collaborations between laryngologists and vocal coaches who have pieced some of the pieces of the puzzle together, but not the entire process of vocal production for singing purposes. Practically, all we have is the anecdotal and experiential contribution of great artists and teachers. And, although as invaluable and amazingly passionate and dedicated these masters' contributions have been and will continue to be, they do not amount to scientific research. Therefore, until such research exists, the discussion over which method actually works, or even worse, which one is the best, will continue to surface and resurface in this fascinating world of vocal coaching and that of aspiring and consummate singers. In my opinion, the fastest way to make progress as a singer is by having an honest, knowledgable, and experienced vocal coach, especially one who is not belligerently committed to a single singing method, listen to your singing so that she or he can analyze and identify your individual weaknesses with the purpose of prescribing an exercise regime specifically tailored so that you can overcome those weaknesses. And, it doesn't matter if these exercises originate from the traditional bel canto, or from Lunte's TVS, or Tamplin Vocal Academy, or Riggs' SLS, or Manning's Singing Success, or New York Vocal Coaching, or Ramsey Voice Studio, etc., etc., as long as they work and you can notice, through before-and-after recordings and coach analysis, a clear and indisputable progress in your singing ability.
Ken is a good singer but in a video where he says he is singing his own song ,Livin For My Lord live, he is actually lip-syncing the studio version. Listen to both songs side by side, not the music track itself but his vocal. They are identical and he claims he is singing it live. No big deal I just wonder why he even bothered to make a supposedly live video that is lipped. ua-cam.com/video/-sAx1xNEyV0/v-deo.html
You can be right, but you can't beat Ken on when he says that all vocal teachers don't sing themselves and just talking. You can be good at nay nays but guess what, I'm good at them also, I've done sls for few years. And no result. The moment I tried belting it just wouldn't work. And yes it's just somewhat funny, somewhat pathetic that all sls teachers don't sing and have no decent clips of them singing actual songs. It's just so bizarre, like, I wold be happy to do SLS but can you please SING to show how it's done? Btw, doing Ken's program right now, and got rid of the idea that you just transition to head voice, smooth the break. YOU DON'T. You just build your voice gradually, like if you can sing F right now, you work for some time to sing F#. Before I thought that it's such a REVELATION that you don't build your range gradually, but instead transition to head. But now I'm like, no, you just simply build your chest voice to sing higher, it's almost dumb but don't overcomplicate, your just going to lose years of progress thinking you're so smart, and your nay nays gains are like a castle of glass, the moment you apply pressure in your stomach to belt it falls apart. And yes SLS works when done right but usually it's bel canto guys like Ken who are explaining on the internet how you should do SLS so you can gain something out of it, funny isn't it
Hey Rizer, great conversation. I sing in all my videos. I think it's unfortunate that this myth is so pernicious. If you want to hear more SLS students sing, check this out: ramseyvoice.com/ken-tamplin-speech-level-singing
Ken's main issue is that he doesn't leave room for other opinion. I stopped following his channel because I feel like he isn't open-minded enough. He's always big noting himself and talking about all his famous connections and how his singing course is without compare. He also doesn't offer much free advice compared to other YT teachers - he's getting people to sign up to his course, but his course is insanely expensive compared to other courses. Like 3 times more than comparable courses.
I’d agree with most of this. He does have some good points with his lessons though on what he does offer without taking his course. He did spend over a million dollars on vocal lessons you know 😉
@@ramseyvoicestudio yes sir, maybe they have similarities because he have been to different coaches and mentors. Maybe he have tested it and is not that applicable mostly on powerful singing that's why he can comment on that particularly.
The test of ANY kind of trainer is the results they get with their student/athlete. It doesn't matter ONE BIT if they can do the same thing themselves because there is always a talent issue and often the best coaches have mediocre talent that drove them to learn while those with great talent never had to think about why they were great. The BIG issue with this though is not knowing about the real BEFORE "pics" of the person involved. Lots of coaches use their greatest talents as an example of their methods, but those same people started great. Good recruiting is what they did. The coaching was secondary. Ultimately, it is the over all AMOUNT of progress that demonstrates a coaches ability. It is harder to get a person with near zero talent to be decent than it is to get a very talented person to get a great singer to be even greater. So I could care less that Seth worked with Michael Jackson and Stevie Wonder or that Ken has some great performers in his roster. They are all freaks. Show me someone who really sucked who got good if you want to impress me.
I've watched some of his reaction videos where he criticizes someone and tried to show the correct way but he does the exact same thing he criticized. I can tell that your the real deal. I did vocal warm ups how you do them and my wife looked at me and said "i didn't know you could sing". We have been together for 6 years. Love your content and you look like Josh Groban (you sing better)
I feel like the elephant in the room when it comes to Ken Tamplin is that he's really clearly a heavy metal singer, and his program is really clearly designed to produce heavy metal singers. Which there's nothing wrong with - *I'm* a heavy metal singer - but it definitely explains language like "doesn't work" when discussing SLS. The truth is that if you want heavy, powerful vocals, KTVA is gonna skyrocket you there way faster than SLS will. Alternately, if I hadn't done my first 9 months with an instructor who used Brett Manning's program, and has just jumped right into KTVA, my singing journey would have consisted of my slamming myself up against a metaphorical brick wall and getting absolutely nowhere. The most dynamic and well-rounded singers will be those who pick the best parts of all methods and techniques.
@@ramseyvoicestudio Sure, I'm just saying.... you've 3 years to teach a kid how to sing Iron Maiden starting from scratch, or the universe explodes. My money is going on "start him off with Brett Manning for the first 9 months, then get him on Ken Tamplin."
@@ANUBISMETAL I'm sure you're aware that Brett Manning/SLS is the same stuff basically. But I agree with you: SLS for the foundation, then contemporary vocal technique for the effects.
@@ANUBISMETAL 100%. But even then, there are other great techniques for getting a fuller beltier sound. CVT, for example, teaches screaming, distortion, etc...
show me prove..can you use & bring that SLS into singing..i already waste my 1 month to train SLS..but nothing change..did you have student??i dont see you sing & i only see you speaking bla bla bla bla..done unsubrcibed..🙄🙄
Hey Kuzumaki, I appreciate your objection. I'm not dismissing Ken directly. I respect the notoriety he's brought my profession, however, Ken has built a lot of his studio on his criticism of SLS. So you can see the catch-22 here. If I call him out, then obviously I'm just a hater. But I was sick of all the good folks out there just hearing him bash SLS without a balanced perspective. I'm sorry to hear you feel you've wasted your time with SLS. But perhaps it was the teacher and not the method.
I've tried exercises that focus on the Ah vowel and they weren't all that great for my voice, especially when combined with the idea (whether I misunderstood Ken or not) that I should be stretching chest all the way up to a G4 and beyond. When I get to a G4 it has to be a mix (LIGHTER THAN CHEST) or it's bad for my voice. I can't sing a G4 as chesty as Ken can, and demonstrates in some of his vocal exercise videos. I have to lighten it up.
Hey! I come from the Estill method (so, I have a totally different concept of how the voice works). What I think is that Ken actually deserves some bashing.. he’s always been talking crap of other coaches and methods. He has no right to say that other methods do not work. He cannot even deal with the critics, he’s got some big psychological issues.
Hey, hey, hey! Ken never talked crap of other vocal coaches, neither that other methods do not work. He only said that a vocal coach can only be considered legit if they can demonstrate what they talk about with their voices, and have students which can do it too. And Ken, as far as I know, doesn't appear to have any psychological issues, he's always a very peaceful guy.
Hey Felix, thanks for your perspective. I agree that Ken is constantly bashing other vocal coaches. I'd like to think that in this video, I was respectful of him while still pointing out the issues in his logic.
Actually i haven't heard him say a name of a particular coach. He was just talking about their methods of teaching that "if the teacher cannot demonstrate what they're teaching, run from them like your hair is on fire".
Ken Tamplin sells sells sells his vocal academy and then appears onstage singing to a backing track. The backlash is notable! Tamplin is on a bogus journey. Also that weird "stick your tongue out in the middle of your face in a u shape" is flat-out weird. Yes it can "brighten your voice", it's also bad technique. Riggs method is established, but some of his main books are filled with celeb name-dropping and basic vocal exercises - the Anne Peckham Vocal Method workbook is good for beginners and advancing students.
Agreed Dmitry, his "Lah"s are weird. And to his credit, any vocalise or vocal exercise can be useful if done correctly. The vowel/consonant are just one tool. You can also use scale, pitches, dynamic, and speed to great effect to bring a voice into balance.
I don't care if he can sing, if he is a fraud, if he lipsings, etc, etc, etc. Beside all those things, I can't, just can't, definitely, stand that tongue!! 😝
Of course he sounds loud. He is a heavy metal singer. You need to compete with guitars with huge distortion and drums arrangements bigger than life. The genre is very demanding.
I agree with a few of your points for sure.but when you think of the singers you mentioned m jackson stevie wonder,i think even adam from marroon 5 studied sls.though they have amazing voices they are light less power then a good rock singer.which is good for what they are doing r&b.but for a rock singer training with that open ah more so then nay or gee.also hanging in chest a little longer .i really believe theres a very noticeable difference in power.sls obviously works look at all the stars its developed.i have taken sls lessons taught by seths actual student.but kens course which ive been doing since 2018 .the power and agility is just undeniable.really developing that chest as a foundation i mean really develop your chest.then you get the mix and head down .get rid of the break .holy moly the things im beginning to sing now
I hate when voice coaches dismisses other methods and their method is the only one that works. I guess its like you say, its good marketing. SLS i think helped improve some problem Ive had for sure. Have the book with the excersies. Highly recommend it. Also have Robert Luntes program and they all have benefis. But its silly when some voice coaches cant support each others methods in order to help the student and just ask the student to forget the other methods. Had coach that asked me to forget everything I learned because he had studied bel canto. Its not a good aproach.
I know i'm late. I've been using both SLS and Luntes program. They worked for me. Ive tried Kens, but I'll stick to SLS and Lunte for now. I just don't like when teachers are critiicicing other techniques that aboslutely works. It's obvious they want to convince you to stay with them, because. Well, they want the money. I had a teacher who where always criticing other methods like SLS and Lunte etc when they are really the same essentiely. He was classicly trained. However. Those are the only methods Ive been using and worked for me. Dont believe me? Check out my covers.
Many of the folks here have made some amazing points. One commenter seemed to hit all of them, so I made this response video using his comment as a template, but many of you have asked these questions: www.loom.com/share/41e7bc335f8c4c30b2e89884a2305718
I have done SLS and Tamplin, I made more progress in 2 weeks with Ken than I ever made with SLS, and to be fair Ken has criticisms of Bel Canto as well. Just becasue he criticises something doesnt mean that, that is the actual thing that built his studio. That is a bit of a leap, remember he has been in the business longer than most people that teach SLS have been alive.
Hey guys, I believe that if nothing else, we can prove that Ken has definitely spend a good deal of time observing "very famous SLS teachers" based on his own words in the original SLS doesn't work video.
Okay but what comes first? Eq or compression? Should I use SSL plugins or not? Man, now I hate Ken Tamplin. 😡 I’m gonna go get some graham crackers and vent my emotions. Please excuse me.
So glad someone has done a rebuttal to Ken’s very uninformed video. Either he is VERY misinformed or blatantly lied cause everyone I know that has tried an sls lesson has been very happy with the results. Like you said Matt, some teachers are a better fit than others and what training they have had and how consistent they have been with it is key but sls as a technique is amazing! Michael Jackson, Luther Vandross, Tamia, Aretha Franklin...all those voices speak for themselves! Well made video!
I don't get this "let's talk another guy down" that you are all subscribing to.. Do your own stuff and do it great, but don't care about the others. This obviously goes for him too, but come on, this is only supposed to help ones who want it..
Hey everyone, I just watched the breakdown of Tamplin's recent lip-synching. As much as I may disagree with some of Ken's thoughts on vocal technique (there's always more room for debate there), nothing frustrated me quite as much as Ken's blatant disrespect and disregard for other voice teachers.
It's always seemed to come from such an ugly place.
This scandal seemed like an opportunity for Ken to actually admit that we're all human and make mistakes (both vocally and ethically). I'm sorry to see that he still hasn't grown.
Fil from the wings of Pegasus showed one of Ken tamplin awesome abilities
During one of his recreations of a song he literally has the amazing ability to stop close his mouth and still keep on singing.
It's an super advanced technique Ken Tamplin knows. He only teaches this on private lessons
It may be a secret, but the sound simply exits via a different route; but you'll need to pay through the nose to find out where.
@@WideCuriosity absolutely. He teaches this in his one on one private lessons which should cost 750USD/hour. It's a super advanced technique and the best kept secret ever. Most of the pro singers are not aware of this secret technique.
ANyone else here because Ken Tamplin was exposed?
@@DartagnanMagic yep
A bit surprised this was top of the page on my recommendations today. I initially thought you must be speaking on the latest scandal, uncovered by Wings of Pegasus, that is all over UA-cam. Then I start it, knowing you weren't overly enamoured with Ken from previous videos you made, and suddenly a 4 years younger you appears 🙂. I guess the scandal has encouraged the UA-cam algorithm to bring this up.
Ya same with me. Watched Fil talk about this and now it’s coming up in my feed. Ken is a fraud.
Notice how careful he had to word everything to avoid backlash
Same here!
Sameee
Same for me I've been watching all the videos outing Ken.
When I developed polyps years ago due to a very bad flu/cough and had to consult an ENT doctor. The first thing he asked if I sing and the next he asked if I used SLS. I asked why and he replied, “If you do, STOP! Cos SLS has the highest casualty rate in the world.”
I've been a singing teacher and session singer for 25yrs. I made the most progress in my own singing journey with SLS and Bel Canto. I've watched a few videos today on UA-cam claiming Mix singing is better than SLS, when Speech Level Singing IS Mix singing. Then I saw some coaches claim SLS only creates a light voice, when I've used aspects of SLS successfully with metal singers, including myself! Basically, a lot of UA-cam coaches are talking in riddles to sell programs. Bel Canto is where it's at. I advertise myself as a Mix Singing teacher, because I use aspects of several methods and never wanted to be attached solely to one brand. Good video, thanks!
I appreciate that
What ever gets you through the gig and keeps your voice healthy is the best. Great video mate!
my problem with SLS, and to some degree Ken Tamplin is that they talk about "neutral larynx" which is a complete lie if you want to go up in a "chest" or "mixed voice", (terms that mean something different depending on who uses it).
It wasn't until I read about better, more scientific-based methods, that I was even able to make a sound above E4. SLS does get some things right, but the fact that it has basic inaccuracies like that makes it mediocre in my opinion
If I may chime in, having had experience with both methods. It seems whenever I hear an SLS teacher demonstating a transition from chest to head, head voice many times seems to be connected, but sounds less chesty. SLS seems a better fit for those wishing to sing lighter, more head voice, falsetto vocals, where Ken's method brings you further development to be able to belt out more chesty, punchy, power vocals.
VIDEOHEREBOB I can see this on Ken’s part at least. His students and himself sing rock ballads and have powerful vocals. Although he tries to say it’s a generalized approach and it’s good for any style of singing and you are building
Your singing “muscles”.
Excellent Video! Apologies for the intrusion, I would love your thoughts. Have you thought about - Chiveard Unique Speech Framework (erm, check it on google should be there)? It is a good one off product for learning how to give an outstanding wedding speech minus the hard work. Ive heard some incredible things about it and my BF finally got astronomical success with it.
This is a great conversation!!! I would agree that Ken tends to prefer a more chest dominant mixed voice and SLS treads a little (emphasis on little) more lightly. I believe that's because Ken comes from more of a chest dominant background and his voice sounds better when he performs that way. However, I've still seen some of the best belters in the world who were SLS trained all their lives.
@@ramseyvoicestudio True Matt, but I believe as a gigging singer, you have to seriously train those balls-to-the-wall belts or super T/A dominant configurations. A lot of singers just don't purposefully go there, that next level(s). That place where it gets very, very challenging and where breath capacity and breath pressure management become majorly important.
Totally agreed. But plenty of SLS singers go for the "balls to the wall" belt sound as well.
Tamplin teaches bridging in stages. His method comes in 5 parts, only in the first part are you bridging at E4/A4. By the second, you're bridging much later.
Good to know. I remember him giving the idea of a space shuttle shedding its different compartments. I believe that brought a Tenor through the second bridge up to C5.
HI Matt!
Thank you for sharing your opinions, I listened to it very carefully. Hope that I will not sound cocky in any way, so I try my best to do it in a very polite way (English is not my first language).
First of all I am singing now for about 15 years and tried many different approaches to find, improve and learn to control my voice. I didn't have any natural talent for that so I've just put thousands and thousands of hours to figure it out. I've had many teachers, but I learned most from myself experimenting. I agree with that different techniques work for different people. I just want to share my opinions.
I found KT about 3 years ago. For me - what he says completely makes sense. I kind of agree with him about his opinions of SLS. Even though I learned to sing classical in the early days, SLS came in for me by Seth Riggs and Brett Manning's Singing Success after that and practiced it for around 4 years when I was doing musical theatre for about 5 years at that point. I don't wanna say it's not good, because it is good in someway - but what I experienced is that it's just simply not enough for singing challenging vocals and songs or extending yourself to your highest limits. I think to set an example that Michael Jackson, Ray Charles, Michael Bolton or Stevie Wonder worked with Seth Riggs and SLS is irrelevant - because they were already great singers before that! In my whole experience the "proof is in the singing" is acceptable for me - Even though a teacher doesn't have a good voice, he could at least demonstrate the technical aspects of it on his own. I know that I will get criticized for it probably, but even Seth Riggs or Brett Manning is just way out of this. The greatest proof for me when someone shows me a completely average or poor student and shows me what he/she is capable of after X years of learning.
In my opinion "Ney" is not even close and couldn't be equal in any way with "Law/Lah". Different vowel shape, larynx and tongue position. In your examples I hear that the highest notes of the scales you show are having a light mix. I think what Ken wanna mention about bridging too early is that SLS always keep yourself in the comfort zone, especially when we talk about the passaggio or bridge. Just because someone can do a NAY-NAY-NAY or NO-NO-NO in a scale doesn't mean that he can sing the same note with a powerful voice in a song! I experienced this in my 4 years in SLS. For example I never heard Brett Manning singing a complete song in his upper register with a heavy chest-oriented or heavy mix. Singing a scale for 5 seconds reaching high notes is totally different than singing a whole song with high notes in it.
I think that the vocal cords are simply muscles, we have to train them and it doesn't improve by just moving in the comfort zone always. With some of the SLS examples I could sing up to those high B-s and C-s but I couldn't demonstrate them in a song. Sometimes we have to push past it (i don't mean actually pushing the voice until your voice is gone, just by for example extending chest voice). With Ken's exercises I reached 2-3 semitones higher in a heavy chest mix than before - without feeling any constriction in my throat after 3 month of practicing. That kind of improvement didn't happen with SLS to me. It just throwed me on a completely different level, so that's why I really resonate with his teachings because it just worked for me.
But for not to think that I'm a Ken fan or anything, I disagree with him in some topics. For example vowel modifications are cool, if you are speaking english, but for my first language Hungarian - it just doesn't work, it's not general for all languages. I had to find my vowel modifications for my language - for example we cannot alter an english "E" on higher pitches, because everyone who hears it will be aware that it's not a pure "E" and it's """unhungarian"".
I actually use many technical stuff from what I learned over the years and not just from Ken, but - classical singing bel canto, Daniel Tompkins (who I learn from nowadays), some stuffs of Chris Liepe (love his approach of experimenting with sounds and not overcomplicating everything technically) and most interestingly some Robert Lunte stuff (even though that I do not agree with him with the most things he teaches).
I'm not just talking here, I have some videos uploaded on my channel too.
Thank your for reading it, I'm really looking forward to have a nice discussion about this with you!
Oh hi Mark, you bring up some awesome points. So much so that I made you and everyone with these same questions a video. I'm going to pin it to the top of these comments so everyone can learn: www.loom.com/share/41e7bc335f8c4c30b2e89884a2305718
BTW "Ney" is one of the exercises that is advised not to do after a certain point even in Seth's book beecause he says im qouting
" Exercises 5 and 6(nay nay) are called high larynx exercises. They use the muscles above
your larynx to pull it up. A raised larynx will stretch, and thus thin your vocal cords,
making it possible for them to go into the shortened condition necessary to sing high
pitches. But again, you are only using these muscles temporarily, just to demonstrate a
concept. You don't want to use this technique when you sing. This is not yet
speech-level tone production."
It's literally in the book, his words, people just tend to ignore it.
@@vegeta1885 True, true - you are right. I personally altered the exercise to my own needs by slightly lowering the larynx and making it "float" freely with "Ney", rather than having it high (or completely low).
@@babuudatha9764 Sure thing!
I did years of Singing Success before I got introduce to Ken and other more Rock oriented vocal programs that lean more into classical/bel-canto foundations. I'd like to throw my 2 cents here.
The biggest difference between Ken and SLS (singing success variation), is that Ken doesn't use consonants (like the n in nay, or g in gee) to teach vocal cord closure, he just focuses on finding the open-throat thru vowels. I don't think either approach is right or wrong, as I had something to learn from both.
However, Ken talks about breath support and rib expansion, and singing success never did.
In my personal singing journey, the fact that singing success taught little to nothing about breath support, and never mentioned rib-cage-expansion(which is a super common thing to teach in any classical/bel-canto flavored vocal program), really did me a huge disservice. My vocal power and pitch accuracy grew tenfold only after I was given guidance on breath support.
Aside from all that, I don't know if the similarities between Ken's program and SLS, are because Ken borrowed from SLS, or because they both borrowed from bel-canto or other ancient classical vocal exercises. Surely SLS did not invent scales.
I agree with some of your points and disagree with some of your points kindly. I've encountered many people who had taken SLS (or SLS influenced) lessons here in Taiwan (including myself), 10 out of 10 sounded thin, and low volume and very "heady" (almost like the "choir-tone" which not very suited for pop music), and some of them were having difficulties going back to their chest voice around E to F# where they can pull that off before they took any lessons. I agree teaching quality varies teacher by teacher, but I think the over emphasis on "relaxing" by sounding weaker and "headier", (which they do here) does more harm than good in my opinion. I may be wrong, but I personally really haven't seen anyone in my area, who originally does not know how to sing, thru SLS, they become a good singer (Or somewhat close to a decent cover singer on UA-cam). I haven't seen anyone be able to do that thru SLS. I have seen people who can sing with less muscle tension, I have seen people who can connect their voice, but when singing with the music, they almost sound identical 1 or 2 years ago (just without the break). So you are probably one of the few successful examples I guess? (I mean it in a good way.)
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And for the famous people who had taken lessons from SLS, I personally would not take that as a proof of legitimacy. I think there is a difference between a famous singer (who already sounded very good, very unique, very stylistic, and professional), wants to know more about how to sustain their voice better out of a busy touring schedule, than someone who does not know how to sing (usually pitchy and shaky), but wants to sound like for example: David Bolton or Alicia Keys thru SLS. I personally haven't seen anyone who had done it, nor have I known any professional singers in my area, learned how to sing they way that they sing by a series of exercises that try to connect the 2 registers.
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Don't get me wrong, I don't say this to disprove SLS, I just recognize that there is a huge gap between professional sounding singers and amateur sounding singers, that SLS and many other vocal coaches or systems don't seem to able to bridge. And you as a vocal coach I believe you might have encountered a lot of students that are just don't sound good, and they just do not know how to interact with the music, and maybe after a year or two, now they finally know the meaning of every terminology, and now they finally know how to bridge their voice, or sing in a mix, but when it gets to singing with a track, as a performance? it's just... weird? or boring? compare to many cover singers here on UA-cam. I don't know if you've ever had this experience, but I myself have seen this a lot. And I just don't see a future for these people 5 years from now, by doing these same excises everyday, will get them anywhere. But that's just my opinion.
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Lastly, I kind of encourage students to question their teacher rather than just trust everything that they say. But I agree with you that there needs to be a chemistry or some kind of mutual trust. But I also think that every teacher has their limitation in knowledge and experience, no one has every solution to every problem, sometimes good questioning helps the teacher to grow too.🙂
Wow Kevin, I want to do a video just talking through these points with you. You're so well spoken and I really appreciate the conversation.
@@ramseyvoicestudio Ohh wow, you wanna do a video with me? Why? lol I'm ok with it, but we have a time zone difference, I'm 15 or 16 hours ahead of you probably.
Perhaps 1 or 2 years, or even 5 years of training, is simply insufficient time to judge the success of the technique? From what I have heard, it is simple to learn, but difficult to achieve mastery. The professionals, they perhaps have a headstart, as they could already be able to bridge. Not so much for the amateur who have yet to grasp the technique.
@@KevinWuOfficial 🤣🤣🤣
@@alunlivemusic Personally, I actually do not believe everyone is able to learn to sing well, especially the older it gets, the more impossible it gets. That's just my observation, and I think reality actually shows that. Now, different teachers or systems might try to give you a reason why it is the way it is, I just don't buy it.
Let's be honest, if you ever worked as a singing teacher, or might just have been sitting around a vocal coaching studio, you will find MORE THAN HALF of the people that came in for lessons? They just sound like one of those "Funny American Idol Auditions". And I don't mean it in a mockery way, that's just reality. How many of those people you have seen them turn into one of those who can actually get a golden ticket? I don't mean to actually join the show and get a golden ticket to prove their success, just compare their singing after years of lessons, to some of those who actually go thru American Idol audition, and judge it fair-mindedly, to see if they are actually in the same league or not.
So when someone said one system ACTUALLY WORKS, I would ask what exactly is that mean? Is that mean I can turn someone who flips to connect? Or is that mean I can turn someone from amateur sounding to professional sounding? To my impression? I think they want people to believe the latter but actually doing the former. There's nothing wrong with that actually, but I just wish vocal teachers that charge good money can be more clear on what reality actually is. Don't you wonder why no vocal coaches would want to put up a video of them coaching someone who could hardly stay in tune? Or coaching someone who actually sounded funny and fix their problem? Wouldn't that be more helpful and practical and more down to earth then reacting to how professional singers sing? They would love to put up a video about Michael Bolton coming for advise, which you could barely hear the differences before and after, but you would never see a tone deaf now sing so good after lessons.
Umm... Ken just literally said today in his live stream that he knows he might not be the right teacher for everyone and encouraged people to look around. All he said was that ask if the coach can demonstrate and if they have success stories to show (students). And that to me sounds quite legit.
Also, I have never, ever heard him say that your vocal chords are getting bigger or stronger like muscles, but rather the muscles you use in singing and your sining ability or skill metaphorically builds up gradually like muscles with training.
I must point that I haven't been in his course (or any other for that matter), but I have been looking a lit of different coaches videos in YT. There have been some things here and there that have actually opened to me fully when I saw someone other explaining the same thing. Now, this might have been different if had been in a full course with some coach, but there is also the thing that even coaches are humans and they might use different words etc. and thus have something to connect in someones head that nobody else have been able to teach. That's us as species, for better and for worse.
I saw some comments here about bad ecperiences with Ken and I'm not claiming anything about them. I just wanted to point out that in my opinion some of your claims were wrong (which is exactly what you are accusing Ken of doing).
That's true!
Seth Riggs and Brett Manning helped me tremendously in attempting to sing it. Put it within arms reach of ordinary people like me who didn’t want to make a record deal. Didn’t want to be a UA-cam star, but in my case, just simply wanted to sing in church without cracking and achieve that and that’s all that I want.
I think you are absolutely spot on!
Unless you are already very talented and happen to come across a great teacher that provides exactly what you need at that time, then you will likely try many teachers, all of whom will add something to your learning process.
I started with Per Bristow's program and loved it but still couldn't eliminate my break.
I bought Kens program and can now get through my break but there is too much pressure in my voice and I cannot sing songs with it.
I go back to Per's lessons and it helps to release the pressure.
I've just discovered Seth Riggs and SLS and I can easily sing high connected notes and loud scales without even thinking about support as I get into the resonance pockets and it's effortless.
But I'm still having trouble putting it all together.
What I'm saying is no one teacher will give you everything you need in a video or audio program. You will have to either have one to one lessons where the coach can hear what you need and tailor the lessons to that, or you will need to search online for the exercises and information that you need at that point of your singing journey.. and this is not easy as we don't know what we need to get through the many sticking points.
Per's course helped me. Kens course has helped me. But I'm still not there yet and so am looking at SLS for the missing pieces of my puzzle.
I just wish that private singing lessons were not so expensive!
Good luck to you all.
Ok, so I got a vocal coach and KTVA actually taught SLS but labeled it differently. He was doing the exercises lightly throughout the program. He kept on saying monitor for tension and everything should be relaxed. He also did lip trills, and the vowels constantly. I started to understand it and it was the larynx that caused vocal breaks. If you keep it in a natural position you won't break. Not tilting your head in awkward positions or doing weird stuff with your mouth. I even notice when I tilt up the air gets cut off when I do a tongue trill. You have to keep a balanced position the entire time you sing.
I can't speak for SLS, but I have been doing Ken's program off and on for a couple of years and it has made a MASSIVE difference in my voice. I get regular compliments on my singing voice when I sing at church and can sing much higher than I ever thought possible. So his method really does work. I can testify to that.
Hey Zachary, I appreciate your objection. I'm not saying Ken's technique doesn't work. I'm saying that it's built on the work of other geniuses. I respect the notoriety he's brought my profession, however, Ken has built a lot of his studio on his criticism of SLS but was so obviously influenced by it.
Ken's students OFTEN outshine him. Check out Alyona. Blows him out of the water!
Which is proof of his skills as a teacher.
@@burntvirtue See the pinned comment
@@Rosannasfriend See the pinned comment
What Ken is basically saying..he sings better than anyone else!
No he he's nor. Just making, sounds good. His voice is good.
I've never heard Seth Riggs singing. Couldn't find any video or audio with full song.
Yea not even video of him miming to his own singing
That doesn’t mean a whole lot. Some of the greatest baseball, hockey, football coaches weren’t very good players.
@@detroitpolak9904 exactly. My husband is an expert fencing coach (a fencing professor), and could give an Olympic fencer a valuable lesson, but he couldn't come close to beating them in a match. The skills are not the same.
But besides that, music isn't a sport, it's an art, and art is not competitive!
3 years ago, I paid Ken Tamplin $400 for an hour of Skype lesson. What did I get out of the lesson. Breathe in through my nose, Mr Tamplin had a cough. Oh, and I’m doing everything wrong so I need more lessons I guess. And when I question one of his moderators in his chat group (about proper breathing technique), I was permanently banned! Oh and I did pay $400+ for his course.
Sorry this happened to you. You might look into my Master Your Voice course where you get actual analysis and feedback of your singing from me, here's the link:
courses.ramseyvoice.com/p/master-your-voice-main-page
@@ramseyvoicestudio don’t be sorry. We live and learn
For $400 in 2018 you could have had like 5 face to face lessons with a real vocal teacher!
@@mipmipmipmipmip-v5x I know I know!
Seth Riggs wants people to sing with larynx tilting forward and out, basically as you do at 10:55 with bubble lip. He didn’t want what you do next which is the gee gee thing where your larynx rises and falls with pitch. Most people including Ken don’t seem to understand this thing. I recommend folks check opera singer Jack Lavigni video explanation of the difference. Jackson does the exercises with larynx moving up like speaking voice, and Seth just lets him do it. I don’t really understand why people don’t get it. You can physically observe peoples necks and understand what is going on. Then you can tell by the sound.
Can we hear you sing?
Sure Mark, you can hear my sing in the video
Just wow... I'm not sure why you would write this comment, but I just checked it out and man..... nobody makes Ken's point for him better than you did with this comment of yours, without realizing it. Bravo.
What more... saying that a scale of an 'ah' vowel and a 'ney' scale is basically the same thing... no need for watching your video any further :)
@@robertgemes9296 See the pinned comment
@@ramseyvoicestudio The proof is in the singing. Can you sing "Livin on a Prayer" by Bon Jovi without lowering the key? Ken did and has videos of two students doing it. Let's see if you actually practice what you preach. The proof is in the singing.
Ken studied with Seth Riggs for several years, with Ron Anderson and many many more, he has said it many times, so I think he understands SLS, im gonna say this very respectfully disagreeing, not trying to be annoying or bashing your video, just truth, No, "Ney" is not the same as LAH because the vowels dont have the same size, neither brightness, ney will get you more in to the mask and in to the twang, and thats just one sound of the voice, you might like it but its not the only way you can sing and the vocal tract will change if you favor a vowel, plus will not open the tract the same way as an Ah, and get all the vowels in there, i suggest you to watch "how to sing any song" from Ken´s channel so you understand what im talking about, its not the same as get all the vowels inside Gih Gih Gih, or ney ney, and you wont be able to reach the same notes in chest voice quality, Because a small or medium vowel, like Gih or Ney will tend to go to head voice for their nature faster than "Ah", the "L" as a matter of fact is really important cause if you watch Ken do it, he doesnt move the jaw as he uses it in LAH, nd you will tend to move the jaw a lot in gig gi or ney ney if you are not taught to NOT do it, and thats one of the main points of that L, plus, it is not an explosive consonant like K, Q T, P or fricative consonants like G, D, B, which are very common in SLS, and when you apply them in singing you will tend, as you go higher to crack a little bit (or a lot if you try to belt) if you dont know how to use them correctly and you will tend , since you train with them to go after them to get the placement and when you raise the volume, the consonants will block the air every time you sing them and you are trained that way in sls, thats incorrect, thats why its important to train with vowels, again when you train with consonants, you will tend not to rise the volume too much at all. and you wont be able to belt in your biggest capacity, doesn't train vocal tract shaping which helps you understand the vocal tract and how to respect the space, the sls programs assume you´ll get that naturally again, that is not taught in the SLS programs
SLS doesn't teach the same support that Ken does, I assure you that, watch the video on support from KTVA´s channel,
SLS just tells you basically to take a breath, there is no teaching on an engaging in any part of the abdomen at all, not even in the lower part, which i assure you, you are doing even if you dont realize it when you are crossing the passaggio, you might or not, think its "natural support", but some people dont get it, so it HAS to be taught.
SLS doesn't train vowel modifications, as far as im concerned because i have "sing for the stars" from seth riggs , set your voice free from roger love, Brett Manning´s singing success, so no, they dont teach vowel modifications and if some of them do now, probably not deeply as KTVA does, and KTVA always did.
I could go on and on, you may like SLS but its NOT the same thing, i assure you, its not the same technique, its not the same training, it doesnt teach contiguous phrase singing, its not the same shaping of the tract, the crossing of the passaggio when you are NOT trained, is always taught in a low volume and you will cross early, but thats just a part of the KTVA program stage 1, when you dont have the strenght, if you cant bridge at all, you are supposed to be able to bridge later too, after you trained KTVA for a while, and you have to do it without the help of a consonant, there are tons of things, i could go on and on, and im telling you, if it were only from the perspective of information that you recieve on KTVA, you will understand the mechanics of the voice a lot more than any SLS program, and im not even talking about improving your ability to sing, which will be a lot, so I really hope everybody understands SLS is NOT the same as KTVA.
Hey Gaston, great points. I wish we could have a longer discussion about this because I agree with many of the things you said but I think I would love to demonstrate how there are a few differences of opinion. Not enough time in the day!
I regret buying Ken Templin's course. I wish I could get my money back. It's insanely bad and disorganized. I went to his forum and said I regret buying it and the post got deleted lmao.
Yea dudes a fraud
How much does the course cost?
@@mipmipmipmipmip-v5x I forgot. It's been years. Over 200 at least I think. Biggest mistake in my life. Unsurprisingly, his course didn't have a money-back guarantee.
he claims to be related to a famous 80s rock vocalist.
Someone should check out if this is actually true?
@@datkinson1635He is a Cousin of Sammy Hagar but he met him only one time in his Life! 😅
what you think of Chris liepe or Gregory west or Phil Moufarrege, or should I just stick with SLS cause that has certainly helped at lot
I think they are actually the best out there.
They use a more scientific approach.
And I know many people disagree with me but I am not a fan of using old systems with sometimes very esoteric concepts (especially the open throat shit - when producing a clear powerful tone ur throat is anything but open)
Many things from the past have been scientifically disproven, even if these concepts have helped many people.
Just because something works in many ways doesn't mean it can't and shouldn't be optimised.
I don’t get Chris liepe as a teacher . I think he seems like a nice dude , but his voice is horrid . His screams are so uncontrolled sounding. I can’t get over how bad his tone and screams are.
Idk if he’s in any bands but I can’t imagine myself ever wanting to listen to music with someone singing like that over it .
Good video and regardless of his singing ability with him he comes across as someone full of his own self importance and superiority to all. His big credit is probably his marketing ability which has made him money but that is if you're ruled and judged by money.
Many defending Ken in comments. Unless it's all Ken's fake accounts I wonder how much money and time they sank into their courses.
This is some 2017 Tristan material
Lol! I remember the video where Tristan claimed that Ken is not a baritone because he has a bright timbre and can belt an F5 (and then some). I can't find it anywhere; I think he deleted most of his PopSmack era videos. I think he's grown though since then. A lot of people bash Ken because of the tongue thing and because of the rock-oriented production of his voice. Truth is, he's an accomplished Christian rock singer with a consistent four-octave range and a strong tone & instrument.
Justin C Tristan has definitely been cocky and a bit fishy in his practices. His lesson prices skyrocketed when he became big. But I can’t say much on the matter. A lot of people have questioned his accuracy, individual skill as a vocalist, and pricing - as well as personal things about him.
@@gillianomotoso328 He said he raised prices because he didn't want to spend so much time doing lessons anymore, and eventually he stopped offering them entirely
HalfDuck Really? Wow. Yeah, he strikes me as well-meaning but he’s unfair as well. Granted, he was essentially the first top-tier UA-cam voice teacher that was teaching CVT and went deep delving into many facets of the voice that alongside CVT just weren’t covered by most back then. But he still remains a controversial figure to many.
I agree with this thread. Ken is definitely not a baritone, but he has a GREAT singing voice. His tongue is quite raised and that will be a problem for many students, but he is doing just fine himself.
Hi! I like you channel and subscribe because I enjoy your tips and the value you bring! Thanks! I am a lojal Ken Tamplin student and I have had great benefit and still have! I will put my nose into this, but only want to say that I can get great value from Brett and you, while being a KTVA student. I tell you why! I can easier understand things when I see different angles on the same thing. So for me there is no contradiction! Everybody wins! Atb/Hazze 🇫🇮
Yeah tbh I think ken tamplin is doing some SLS with little modifications, however I think his voice sounds a bit damaged and not clear (appart from the distortion effect). I have a couple months training SLS and oh gosh I have improved drastically! Btw wtf with Ken's tongue lol
well, tongue position is important :)
Greetings from a fellow vocal coach. You bring up alot of good points. I have Ken's, Brett Manning's, (and Ron Anderson's) curriculum and I noticed the similarities between them long before watching this video to be very striking. It was actually Brett's course that I used to improve my own singing dramatically, and train my students. Some of them went onto become regional contest winners and others signed recording artists. I am not a purist and I find them all to be great teachers. Those are the three I would highly recommend. Keep up the good work.👍
It is indeed strange that Ken Tamplin doesn’t like SLS, especially since he studied for 5 years with Seth Riggs. Even stranger is the fact that Ken has said that the best vocal teacher he had was Ron Anderson. Ron Anderson studied singing with Seth Riggs and held a high position in the SLS organization for years before he left SLS to start a business on his own.
yes, it is, Bart
@Nithin Kalyan It is normal that they wanted to start their own buisines. At one time in their career they had to ask themself the question: Do I want to work for SLS or do I want to be SLS?
great discussion
You also have to consider the target students he's aiming at. If you shift the context from general singing to the rock/metal slant which he heavily caters to, what he says is a little more fair. SLS is going to give you great head voices like Michael Jackson, and surely it'll make one capable of rock singing aswell, but is it the most ideal/efficent? A more chest and belt oriented method will surely be a little more pointed to what some people are looking for, and that's probably not SLS. Also, I haven't done any looking into it but I'm of the impression that SLS doesn't really teach vocal distortion past a slight gritty singing, which is another central thing people go to Tamplin for
@@babuudatha9764
Yea, that's pretty much what i mean.
Although there's probably more overlap than the "=" suggests. It
As in, KTVA surely still has a beautiful tone, and is fine for pop/soul singing, Tamplin tackled Michael Jackson and the like
And likewise, I'm sure there's potential for Rock and metal singing in SLS.
In short, both method can make you a good singer at the end of the day, which means you can cross over to the style you trained less for, and still sound ok. It's just how focused and efficient they are at getting you to either end.
Like if you train to be an olimpic sprinter, that'll be your speciality, but there'll be some carryover to long jumps say, and vice versa. Once you're an athlete, even if specialized in one thing, you're still generally going to be above average on other sports, just in virtue of being a trained athlete
I appreciate all the comments
The thing about the "o" vowel, it teaches you to maintain an open throat while singing. It's the base you start on.
absolutely
Hola, yo soy autodidacta hice el curso de SLS, por youtube, a mi me sirvió muchisimo, para cuidarme la voz, y poder cantar sin lastimarme, pero no podia cantar rock, si hubiera ido con un profesor, podria ser que me hubiera guiado para ello, pero hace un mes que Ken puso el curso a 1 dolar y entre, y empece a hacer los ejercicios y en un par de semanas logre el objetivo que queria, encontre el sonido que buscaba para cantar Rock y otros generos, a pesar que Ken diga que SLS no sirve, a mi si que me sirvio y no hubiera podido realizar los ejercicios que Ken propone sin antes haber pasado, por el entrenamiento de SLS. Yo recomiendo empezar con SLS y de ser posible con un profesor y luego probar los entrenamientos de Ken.
As a person who had experience in both SLS and kens method , I can say that no other method besides kens helped me to develop so fast and so good . With SLS I always felt like I have not enough power but kens method helped me to not only gain the power I always wanted but in fact I’m able to control this and back the powerful voice off as much as I want and sing light if I want to. With SLS I couldn’t do that. In fact ken doesn’t really use parts of the SLS in his method . Try something for me real quick , do the Ney Ney exercise and then do this thing with LaH what ken talks about and notice how much more space there is in the back of your throat when you do the Lah’s . Understanding this helped me to really open up my voice . This ken guy might be at times weird and he definitely has some opinions on topics that I do not agree with but damn I do t give a flying f*ck about his opinions , I’m just there to learn how to sing and all those gentle flowers who get insulted by him telling something Negative to you , its just ridiculous. Honestly there is much much more to his method in his course which you can’t see on yt but with his forums , course lessons , yt videos he offers a tremendous amount of Information for you to really understand things . That’s something I’ve never seen before. I’m not getting paid for saying this although I would like to hah but in my humble opinion , getting the money for the course and waiting till it’s on discount was the best investment for my voice I ever made . I can only recommend it. I’m a guy who pays a lot of attention to dynamics in music , and therefore for me the ability to ge t really powerful and then quiet and gentle was really important .
I respect your opinion, but realize that a lot of Ken's technique is directly influenced by SLS.
See the pinned comment.
@@ramseyvoicestudio more like sls took some things from bel canto and Ron Anderson. For sure everything in sls is not carbage. The atrophy is a real thing on people doing SLS, they can't seem to stay in chest.
Hey, I love what I have seen! I have an issue though.....I was a pretty decent singer, fairly good mix, could hit, hold an sustain an a4 in a mix and make it sweet, belt up to E5 and my falsetto kinda petered out around a5.....then I stopped singing, for some awful reason, and stopped using my falsetto....it's been 20 years since I used my falsetto and it seems to have atrophied...any chance of getting it back? Thanks for your reply! Be well!
well, Greg, it's possible but maybe not likely. Determination and hard work may get it back, but the voice lowers with age anyway. and disuse of the voice adds to that. Try this video of mine:
ramseyvoice.com/head-voice-falsetto/
Sohyang actually learned under SLS. I think with the actual founder! A lot of other great singers use speech level singing such as Natalie Weiss. I feel as though if the information is presented and clicks with the person, I think that's all that matters.
She said she had two (not more but around this) lessons with Seth Riggs, the rest she teached herself, am I wrong?
CrazyR I think it was more like 5 but I may be wrong. She said he taught her about mixed voice and took those lessons and mastered the technique herself
Also, if Sohyang and Natalie Weiss learned under SLS then it seriously just work
One good lesson with one great teacher can go a LONG way.
@@ramseyvoicestudio I think this fits to Sohyang pretty well. He told her about using mixed voice (she talked about her practice in a korean show) and now she is a master of it..
I don't like singing powerful rock songs. I prefer singing love and soft songs. So SLS seems to be a better fit for me.
Hey Denis, SLS works for all genres, but yes you may find it very helpful there.
Can u make a video about health voice please?
Hey Felicity, check this out: ramseyvoice.com/how-does-food-affect-the-voice/
Hello Sir.
Could you tell me how you rate Robert Lutes' methods ?
I'd be so gratefull
do you mean Robert Lunte? don't know his methods well
Yes Robert lunte (now I know he's really bad teacher)
Hi Matt, I have just listened to your video and I am in agreement with all your comments. I have been subscribed to your channel for quite some time now, and I can get on really well with your teaching. I have tried several online vocal coaches and I mostly use your lessons and those of another American guy, plus I do sometimes use one or two others (but not often). I have tried Ken's teaching in the past, but it wasn't my favourite. On another aspect of singing, please correct me if I am wrong here, but I recently did one of those scale tests (downscale first, then upscale). The singer is then asked to identify with a singer from a given group, etc, and my classification came out as soprano, with a 2.25 octave range! I did another of these tests this week, and after the scales, there were several lists of singers from which one had to be chosen as to whom the person taking the test thought they sang most like, and again I came out as soprano, this time with a 2.3 octave range. Now on the other hand I had an email yesterday from a company called Sage Wise who said classification didn't mean as much as the singer being able to sing as high or low being comfortable to them personally, although he said he thought he was a Baritone but that when he is in "good shape" as he put it, he is more a Tenor. Sorry to have diversed here, but this whole classification thing can get very confusing. I have read a lot about the Fach system but that obviously gets VERY involved. So back to your video, thank you so much for posting this. It really was most interesting and informative. I cannot glean enough info about singing. Kind regards.
Diane Shepherd The FACH can be involved. I myself used to be classified as a Baritone when I first started singing and taking lessons, now I’m considered a Tenor or a “Baritenor” Tenor 2 in choral settings etc. My tessitura is more around middle C (C4) and that is my most powerful singing. I can sing in chest/mix to a C5 or higher depending on how warmed up I am and if it’s a good day haha. Anyway point is classification of what someone is singing wise can be clear cut sometimes and not so clear cut other times from my experience.
Thanks for your comment Diane. There's something to be learned from EVERY technique out there including Ken's. Some may just get you faster than others.
@@AtomizedSound Thank you for taking the time to reply. I quite understand what you are saying. With the classification exercises that I can use (living where we do!), my very first scale test indicated that I was Mezzo. But through a lot of hard work, vocalising and singing, I feel I am soprano now (I maybe would be 2nd soprano as I cannot reach the ABSOLUTE top notes but can sing some songs with pretty high notes, like Mein Herr Marquis and Dream a Dream Elysium, plus some of the "high" songs in musicals.
Hey Diane, post puberty and prior to old age, the voice type stays constant. So you can't train a Bass into a Tenor. You can train a Bass to hit Tenor notes. But the vocal weight and timbre remains that of a bass. You may find this helpful: ramseyvoice.com/voice-types/
@@AtomizedSound Yes I think I know what you mean here. Through regular practice, patience and determination, both my registers have extended pretty dramatically. My chest voice has improved now, but my head voice is much stronger and I feel most comfortable singing the high notes, which have more resonance. This discussion is very interesting and I thank you for taking the time to put your views, and experience, forward.
SLS is a backwards way of teaching Bel canto!
e.g SLS starts with closed vowels VS Bel canto Open vowels.
Note: Seth Riggs learned the traditional classical way.
open vowels are key
@@ramseyvoicestudio Indeed they are, but they’re also much harder to manage.
here's my lesson on vowels:
ramseyvoice.com/vowels/
For everyone watching this video, remember that at the end of the day, it is only YOUR personal results and whether you improve as a singer or not that matter.
Whether you subscribe to Ken Tamplin or Seth Riggs or Brett Manning or Jamie Vendera or any vocal coach out there, what matters is whether YOU (and not anyone else) become better as a singer, which is why I find it totally unnecessary when people debate heavily on which teachers are better.
You see, every voice is different, and there is no one-size-fits-all method to help singers become better when it comes to singing. What we do as singers is to just explore and find one that works for us. Hence, if you find that Ken Tamplin makes your voice better, by any means stick to his methods, and if not, go to another teacher that can give you the solution you need. This applies for all other vocal coaches out there.
Thanks a ton Matt for this great video.
Can Seth Riggs even sing? He “sang” at a master class and it…well it just isn’t good
What's your opinion about New York Vocal coaching?
I'd have to look into it more
Have been following Ken since the 90s. His voice and accomplishments of his band “ Tamplin” speak for themselves .This is how you find a phenomenal teacher
Hey GW, I appreciate your opinion. I totally agree that Ken is a great singer. But the best singers are not always the best teachers.
To be clear, I think Ken is a good teacher. My video is actually regarding his stance on SLS rather than his teaching itself.
@@ramseyvoicestudio Love Ken, gotta say that... He did missionary/charity work, over in South Sudan, years ago, where Christians were being slaughtered, exiled, homeless, starving, etc, AND did it all from his own money, and good heart! Reestablished whole communities! I don't care what "faith" you are, or even if you have it at all... That was an awesomely, courageous, loving, caring thing to do, for those folks who have NOTHING!!
Anyways, so I like Ken... BUT, what YOU said right here is exactly the point that everyone seems to be missing!! I thought I'd point that out, cuz you're absolutely right... This video wasn't about Ken as a singer, or even as a teacher, it is about his stance regarding the SLS technique! You made some really valid points too. People are kinda missing the point, by "defending" Ken, thinking you're hating on him, but that's not even what the video is about...Duh!
I thought you gave Ken plenty of credit, and, in no way, was I offended by anything you said here. Good video man, keep up the good work! Oh, and your point on the "chemistry" between the student and teacher, speaks volumes to you're understanding of the craft! Kudos sir, and may God Bless you and yours!
Many great singers have used SLS but they were great before they started using it. Stevie Wonder had vocal problems, probably due to pushing the voice to hard. Seth Riggs method helped him balance his voice, but it didn't build it. The one exception being Michael Jackson and he was great though his voice was very androgyne and lacked depth in the chestvoice. Starting your training with SLS almost always ends up with a weak chestvoice due to too much focus on the passagio and none devolped muscles in the diaphragm. I rather sound like Tom Jones than Adam Lopez, just my opinion.
Just stop the bashing. It does not matter. SLS works for some and Tamplin works for others. This thing about one coach saying why his method is better than another is BS anyway. Do not use another coaches name to boost your own channel or method. Period. This type of advertising just leads to further bashing from the other side and never gets to the bottom of whose method really is better because it just does not matter. Use SLS for pop and Tamplin for belting and rock. There done.
Actually Ken Tamplin helps for every genre
Hey mdew, I apologize if it seems like I'm bashing Ken. I'm not laughing at Ken directly. I respect the notoriety he's brought my profession, however, Ken has built a lot of his studio on his criticism of SLS. So you can see the catch-22 here. If I call him out, then obviously I'm just a hater. But I was sick of all the good folks out there just hearing him bash SLS without a balanced perspective.
Where's the "bashing"? Is that what you call any criticism of someone you're a fan of? Bashing is making a video saying "Ken Tamplin sucks ass! This video is a detailed analysis, and evidence-based counterpoint to Ken Tamplin's flawed claims. Far from anything that could be considered "bashing". Sycophantism doesn't pay.
@@andreydesouzaoliveira2134 yeah Ken Templin can scam in every genre 😂
Interesting content indeed. You showed a few head shots of teachers that have some SLS methods in their teaching at the beginning. Without naming names, do you feel that some of the voice coaches make everything seem far to technical unnecessarily? It almost seems that "on purpose" some of their explanations of the exercise is intended on confusing the viewer (to some degree) making the student believe that only that teacher can "unlock" their singing potential. Thanks!
Gosh Rick, I hope no voice teachers are trying to be confusing on purpose.
Hello Ramsey
I don't know how to sing at all
Can Speech level singing help me to learn how to sing
Or it only works for people who already have little knowledge of singing
Not sure how this came up on my suggestions, but I did find it interesting! I have watched some of Ken's videos in the past and also spoke to a few friends that worked through Brett Manning's program.
One point I will make....never use people who are absolutely blessed with talent as proof that a method works!
When any method is put to the test, you use examples of people that are not as blessed vocally as MJ etc
You need examples of individuals who believe they cannot achieve any progress and then wittness a massive change.
I am not sure which method, even if there is one, that can genuinely showcase that??
Point is, using A listers as an example of where a method has worked is an awful way to defend any method, singing or otherwise.
Hey Ramsey. Could you look into Jacob's Vocal Academy and his exercises please? Thank you for your exercises.
Hey Ashua, yes Jacob's puts out a ton of great exercises.
The problem is that you often need feedback on HOW you're doing the exercises in order to improve your voice
@@ramseyvoicestudio oh alright, thank you!
I mean, the name of his program is "How to Sing Better than Anyone Else." Unless you're planning on being on American Idol, who actually wants to learn to sing better just so they can beat other people? That alone tells you that everything is a competition to Ken, and he is gonna toot his own horn endlessly.
Hey Jon, yes I appreciate your opinion totally. Ken is a very competitive marketer so his singing program title totally makes sense.
He's talking about being the absolute best you can possibly be. Nothing wrong with that, that's what most of us want. If you don't want that, that's on you.
I am a professional singer and have been a student of the Ken Tamplin Vocal Academy for over two years, and like thousands of others, he has transformed my voice. Beyond that, he is sincere and up front. If he was a fan of SLS or used it in his teachings ,he would be the first to be up front about it and not just try to give it another name. In my experience, his knowledge of music and its key players is vast and deep, and he always gives credit where credit is due. I like many of your videos, but you leave me confused with the way you laugh off such a renowned talent and teacher.
Hey RM, I appreciate your objection. I'm glad Ken's method has brought you results. However, Ken has built a lot of his studio on his criticism of SLS which his technique is directly based on. So you can see the catch-22 here. If I call him out, then obviously I'm just a hater. But I was sick of all the good folks out there just hearing him bash SLS without a balanced perspective.
@@ramseyvoicestudio It's always good to have a balanced perspective. As someone who has used both Tamplin's method and SLS, I can testify that the two methods are extremely different. I'm not going to say that one is better than the other. They both have had their place in my progress, but they are both very distinct very different methods.
I think it’s because ken himself is brushing off a well renowned vocal teacher by falsely discrediting sls which in turn opens himself up to that same criticism. He’s not arguing against his teaching style or taking away from his practices in any way, he’s just exclusively arguing against the point that sls doesn’t work because ken wrongly discredited it.
Hey Mark, I appreciate your opinion that they're different, but there are certainly a LOT of similarities.
Yes Mason, you got it!
One of the legit singing channels here. I am glad to see he had the balls to bring it up even years prior to the scandal. Any singer that has learned their stuff and has experience on technique and ear can tell ken is bad. His teaching is bad and scammy also. I always warn newbies. Don't waste yourself time with him. Literally any other major channel will do. Don't waste your time on ken. He can't sing or help you.
From another voice coach, I agree with you on all. Ken has dogged other voice coaches and i find it extremely disrespectful.
Agreed.
Many comments confused me as this viveo did.
I don't know nothing about teaching methods and tecniques (at least i know few concepts) but i'm sure this are instruments (in both, teaching and learning side) that have to be combined to get better results
Ken gave his thoughts and Ramsey did the same (i don't feel a criticism concerning Ken capacities, i feel a reaction to defend SLS)
I don't like to see comments like "this is perfect and unique method" or "All other are not good", they does not help who are in need to find information to study about singing
Sure i don't need "fans" that pubblicize without argumes method or talk about miracles
I know just a thing:
When you want to improve something you need to know all is possible about that and a good teacher teach you three things, how to decide tagets, how possibly achieve them and how to find your own way to amend methods to make them perfect to yourself
Honesty of a teacher is impotant too
I am pretty sure that everyone can improve but talent and predisposition (i mean both biological and psychological) have the greatest part for higer level singing and this concept must be a part of teaching args.
Ramsey did a good job to express a criticism about sls bashing by Ken, i don't think is right saying that i doesn't recognize abilities of Ken, he is simply opemimng a discussion about a concept he does not agree with.
But, Ramsey, you skip provocation about singing and i understand (in a good way) why.
But for me a Voical coach and reactor could gain a lot of consideration singing an entire song (more than one maybe) and editing a reaction video to himself
You all have not to demostrate to be great singers because i don't think is needet to teach, but i think all of you have to show how apply their lessons to yourself
As usual :-) i apologize for my bad english
i hope it is possible to understand
Dude, you got it! I'm so glad you understand that this is not an indictment of Ken's technique, but rather a discussion of the hypocrisy in how much he was "inspired" by SLS and had the temerity to bash it constantly.
Ken don’t like negative comments.... mine disappeared quite rapidly 😶
I'm sure
I agree with you and Ken took stuff from SLS but he just took parts of it. I am doing his course. I do not like Gee. I found Nay or Law a lot easier on my voice which helped me find the bright ping. All these exercises do is help you find that spot! It's not hard. Its so you develop muscle memory to be able to go there. It's also a lot like humming. I think Ken explains stuff real well and just gets straight to the point. After about 1 month of consistent practice I was able hit that ping. It just takes time and effort which is why people give or say that I can't sing.
I understand
Love ken , He’s help me beyond belief, I respect your views.
Sls definitely works
Do you know about Mariconesco Fresco?
I don't actually. Should I check him out?
Tbh,i always have question on that 'bridging early Will cost ur belting' problem.i love geoff Tate,and he is always my biggest inspiration who use that technique masterfully.and he said geoff Tate voice now became weaker because of that technique.thats make me really afraid to train my chesty mix and falsetto like geoff tate.
Good video , I follow both ken tamplin, and sls coaches (Bret Manning , power to sing ) , I think ken has good things in his method , but I feel he never really understood the mix voice sls approach , despite he applies some of its features.
Yes, there's something good to take from all techniques!
You lost me when you started laughing at another voice teacher each time you tried to explain why he's wrong on things he believes. I am not a voice student of anybody, but I certainly would avoid anybody that I see laughing at another person, because I could see you laughing at me as well. Just my opinion, but might be worth taking a look at that laugh in your voice when you are putting down others.
He's probably trying to leveraged authority by trying to prove a bigger authority wrong and gaining audience from that community , but i believe he's missing the point. If that makes sense!
Hey Nancy, I appreciate your objection. I'm not laughing at Ken directly. I respect the notoriety he's brought this profession, however, Ken has built a lot of his studio on his criticism of SLS. So you can see the catch-22 here. If I call him out, then obviously I'm just a hater. But I was sick of all the good folks out there just hearing him bash SLS without a balanced perspective.
See the pinned comment
@@ramseyvoicestudio Lol, let me laugh at Ken by myself.. When the first time if we listen to ken's singing, we might think he is wonderful powerful voice... Later you will find out he is one of the worst. His head voice so weak. He always trick audience by doing falsetto at high note. That is terrible singing. He is not singing, he is shouting to sounds powerful. Try Listen to him singing She's Gone, How You Remind Me by Nickelback, Numb By Linkin Park. And many more. Sounds like stupid. He used to condemned old rock singer that were used to be great. Pathetic. His own songs not even good. Can't listen to him even 1 minute. Shouting all the time. He can't even do the mix voice. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Same
I would like to hear your thoughts on Daryl Hall's singing, technique, etc.
Also, Patrick Stump of Fall Out Boy.
LOVE your channel! 💖😸💖
Great singer!!!
Speech level singing works. One Tamplin is a fraud. 100%
Lip syncs and constricted could never do it live. Everything is studio recorded and fake
Correct. It is proven
if you are in the genre of Rock, Blues, Motown and other belting style of singing then Speech Level of Singing is not enough.
Hey Josh, I respectfully disagree. If it's good enough for Anthony Kiedis (rock), Ray Charles (blues) and Stevie Wonder (motown), this technique is good enough for you.
I respectfully disagree with you too sir, ray charles' raspy sound is natural with him. Anthony Keidis style is not purely rock they're in an acid jazz genre. Maybe they have developed their tone even before they went to vocal coaches. i'm not talking about the natural voices of known artists, i'm talking about beginners with no experiences yet. SLS is not enough if your voice have no natural rasp or no power like belting. If SLS is enough maybe you could demonstrate it in real singning rock and belting style singing. Coaches should know how to demonstrate it to be effective coaches.
You may disagree with those particular examples, but certainly you'll see that some of these fantastic singers weren't hurt by sls: www.speechlevelsinging.com/client_list.html
Hard rock singer/vocal coach who utilizes lot of what he is teaching based on SLS MATERIALS right here !! lot of mum mum mum mam mam mam and wee wee wee still gonna contradict ?
ua-cam.com/video/hVsYEhKtNVI/v-deo.html
@@ramseyvoicestudio Anthony Kiedis a good example of a rock singer? U sure about that buddy?
Although the anatomy and physiology, as well as the physics of what makes human phonation possible have been studied scientifically up to the molecular level, a scientific research whose goal is to determine how to produce, by way of vocalization exercises and other means, an efficient, powerful, accurate, healthy, and stylistically appropriate and pleasant singing voice does not yet exist. There have been collaborations between laryngologists and vocal coaches who have pieced some of the pieces of the puzzle together, but not the entire process of vocal production for singing purposes.
Practically, all we have is the anecdotal and experiential contribution of great artists and teachers. And, although as invaluable and amazingly passionate and dedicated these masters' contributions have been and will continue to be, they do not amount to scientific research. Therefore, until such research exists, the discussion over which method actually works, or even worse, which one is the best, will continue to surface and resurface in this fascinating world of vocal coaching and that of aspiring and consummate singers.
In my opinion, the fastest way to make progress as a singer is by having an honest, knowledgable, and experienced vocal coach, especially one who is not belligerently committed to a single singing method, listen to your singing so that she or he can analyze and identify your individual weaknesses with the purpose of prescribing an exercise regime specifically tailored so that you can overcome those weaknesses. And, it doesn't matter if these exercises originate from the traditional bel canto, or from Lunte's TVS, or Tamplin Vocal Academy, or Riggs' SLS, or Manning's Singing Success, or New York Vocal Coaching, or Ramsey Voice Studio, etc., etc., as long as they work and you can notice, through before-and-after recordings and coach analysis, a clear and indisputable progress in your singing ability.
thanks for your interesting comment
I don't sing and my music knowledge is zero. But what gets me watching Ken's videos is I'm in awe of that huuuge tongue he has....lol.
Ken is a good singer but in a video where he says he is singing his own song ,Livin For My Lord live, he is actually lip-syncing the studio version. Listen to both songs side by side, not the music track itself but his vocal. They are identical and he claims he is singing it live. No big deal I just wonder why he even bothered to make a supposedly live video that is lipped. ua-cam.com/video/-sAx1xNEyV0/v-deo.html
I will check that out, interesting. I'm certainly not the world's best, but I think you can be an excellent vocal coach and not be a pro singer
@Roger I just watched that vid you posted. Ken was definitely lip synching 100%.
Is this the same clip Fil analysed?
You can be right, but you can't beat Ken on when he says that all vocal teachers don't sing themselves and just talking. You can be good at nay nays but guess what, I'm good at them also, I've done sls for few years. And no result. The moment I tried belting it just wouldn't work.
And yes it's just somewhat funny, somewhat pathetic that all sls teachers don't sing and have no decent clips of them singing actual songs.
It's just so bizarre, like, I wold be happy to do SLS but can you please SING to show how it's done?
Btw, doing Ken's program right now, and got rid of the idea that you just transition to head voice, smooth the break. YOU DON'T. You just build your voice gradually, like if you can sing F right now, you work for some time to sing F#. Before I thought that it's such a REVELATION that you don't build your range gradually, but instead transition to head. But now I'm like, no, you just simply build your chest voice to sing higher, it's almost dumb but don't overcomplicate, your just going to lose years of progress thinking you're so smart, and your nay nays gains are like a castle of glass, the moment you apply pressure in your stomach to belt it falls apart.
And yes SLS works when done right but usually it's bel canto guys like Ken who are explaining on the internet how you should do SLS so you can gain something out of it, funny isn't it
Hey Rizer, great conversation. I sing in all my videos. I think it's unfortunate that this myth is so pernicious. If you want to hear more SLS students sing, check this out: ramseyvoice.com/ken-tamplin-speech-level-singing
Ken's main issue is that he doesn't leave room for other opinion. I stopped following his channel because I feel like he isn't open-minded enough. He's always big noting himself and talking about all his famous connections and how his singing course is without compare. He also doesn't offer much free advice compared to other YT teachers - he's getting people to sign up to his course, but his course is insanely expensive compared to other courses. Like 3 times more than comparable courses.
I’d agree with most of this. He does have some good points with his lessons though on what he does offer without taking his course. He did spend over a million dollars on vocal lessons you know 😉
Agree ando!
It is his channel so it is his right to protect himself. You do not teach your teacher. That's disrespectful.
Yes, i'm not bashing Ken. I'm just pointing out the similarities between his coaching and SLS.
@@ramseyvoicestudio yes sir, maybe they have similarities because he have been to different coaches and mentors. Maybe he have tested it and is not that applicable mostly on powerful singing that's why he can comment on that particularly.
can you pls sing the shes gone to prove be true
😂 🤣 he won't reply back. That's too tough of a song for an SLS coach 🤣🤣
he can't sing she's gone. because SLS is too weak for that kind of song.
The test of ANY kind of trainer is the results they get with their student/athlete. It doesn't matter ONE BIT if they can do the same thing themselves because there is always a talent issue and often the best coaches have mediocre talent that drove them to learn while those with great talent never had to think about why they were great.
The BIG issue with this though is not knowing about the real BEFORE "pics" of the person involved. Lots of coaches use their greatest talents as an example of their methods, but those same people started great. Good recruiting is what they did. The coaching was secondary.
Ultimately, it is the over all AMOUNT of progress that demonstrates a coaches ability. It is harder to get a person with near zero talent to be decent than it is to get a very talented person to get a great singer to be even greater.
So I could care less that Seth worked with Michael Jackson and Stevie Wonder or that Ken has some great performers in his roster. They are all freaks. Show me someone who really sucked who got good if you want to impress me.
I've watched some of his reaction videos where he criticizes someone and tried to show the correct way but he does the exact same thing he criticized. I can tell that your the real deal. I did vocal warm ups how you do them and my wife looked at me and said "i didn't know you could sing". We have been together for 6 years. Love your content and you look like Josh Groban (you sing better)
Thanks Geoffrey!
I've never seen him do that… Maybe you didn't understand what he was demonstrating?
Can you post an example of this because i have never seen him do that?
I feel like the elephant in the room when it comes to Ken Tamplin is that he's really clearly a heavy metal singer, and his program is really clearly designed to produce heavy metal singers. Which there's nothing wrong with - *I'm* a heavy metal singer - but it definitely explains language like "doesn't work" when discussing SLS.
The truth is that if you want heavy, powerful vocals, KTVA is gonna skyrocket you there way faster than SLS will. Alternately, if I hadn't done my first 9 months with an instructor who used Brett Manning's program, and has just jumped right into KTVA, my singing journey would have consisted of my slamming myself up against a metaphorical brick wall and getting absolutely nowhere. The most dynamic and well-rounded singers will be those who pick the best parts of all methods and techniques.
Hey Anubis, I respect your opinion. But there are a lot of rock singers that have used SLS techniques to great effect!
@@ramseyvoicestudio Sure, I'm just saying.... you've 3 years to teach a kid how to sing Iron Maiden starting from scratch, or the universe explodes. My money is going on "start him off with Brett Manning for the first 9 months, then get him on Ken Tamplin."
@@ANUBISMETAL I'm sure you're aware that Brett Manning/SLS is the same stuff basically. But I agree with you: SLS for the foundation, then contemporary vocal technique for the effects.
@@ramseyvoicestudio Yeah, that's what I'm saying: start the kid off with SLS and then move him to the more physically demanding stuff.
@@ANUBISMETAL 100%. But even then, there are other great techniques for getting a fuller beltier sound. CVT, for example, teaches screaming, distortion, etc...
show me prove..can you use & bring that SLS into singing..i already waste my 1 month to train SLS..but nothing change..did you have student??i dont see you sing & i only see you speaking bla bla bla bla..done unsubrcibed..🙄🙄
Hey Kuzumaki, I appreciate your objection. I'm not dismissing Ken directly. I respect the notoriety he's brought my profession, however, Ken has built a lot of his studio on his criticism of SLS. So you can see the catch-22 here. If I call him out, then obviously I'm just a hater. But I was sick of all the good folks out there just hearing him bash SLS without a balanced perspective.
I'm sorry to hear you feel you've wasted your time with SLS. But perhaps it was the teacher and not the method.
I find it annoying that the pro section ken's class only consists of videos of him teaching other people. No audio workouts.
yes
I've tried exercises that focus on the Ah vowel and they weren't all that great for my voice, especially when combined with the idea (whether I misunderstood Ken or not) that I should be stretching chest all the way up to a G4 and beyond. When I get to a G4 it has to be a mix (LIGHTER THAN CHEST) or it's bad for my voice. I can't sing a G4 as chesty as Ken can, and demonstrates in some of his vocal exercise videos. I have to lighten it up.
ha ha of course it does I use it
Hey! I come from the Estill method (so, I have a totally different concept of how the voice works). What I think is that Ken actually deserves some bashing.. he’s always been talking crap of other coaches and methods. He has no right to say that other methods do not work. He cannot even deal with the critics, he’s got some big psychological issues.
Hey, hey, hey! Ken never talked crap of other vocal coaches, neither that other methods do not work. He only said that a vocal coach can only be considered legit if they can demonstrate what they talk about with their voices, and have students which can do it too. And Ken, as far as I know, doesn't appear to have any psychological issues, he's always a very peaceful guy.
Andrey De Souza Oliveira Na, it seems that you don’t know him enough. Have you ever watched his videos?
Hey Felix, thanks for your perspective. I agree that Ken is constantly bashing other vocal coaches. I'd like to think that in this video, I was respectful of him while still pointing out the issues in his logic.
Actually i haven't heard him say a name of a particular coach. He was just talking about their methods of teaching that "if the teacher cannot demonstrate what they're teaching, run from them like your hair is on fire".
He may not name names but he certainly bashes other techniques and their followers. See the original video.
Ken Tamplin sells sells sells his vocal academy and then appears onstage singing to a backing track.
The backlash is notable! Tamplin is on a bogus journey. Also that weird "stick your tongue out in the middle of your face in a u shape" is flat-out weird. Yes it can "brighten your voice", it's also bad technique.
Riggs method is established, but some of his main books are filled with celeb name-dropping and basic vocal exercises - the Anne Peckham Vocal Method workbook is good for beginners and advancing students.
I have benefited from doing Lahs (in addition to SLS). Though I did them more like you. Ken does them way too weirdly.
Agreed Dmitry, his "Lah"s are weird. And to his credit, any vocalise or vocal exercise can be useful if done correctly. The vowel/consonant are just one tool. You can also use scale, pitches, dynamic, and speed to great effect to bring a voice into balance.
I don't care if he can sing, if he is a fraud, if he lipsings, etc, etc, etc. Beside all those things, I can't, just can't, definitely, stand that tongue!! 😝
He also says SLS singers have 'little voices' but I would argue than Ken whilst good, sings far too loud!
Of course he sounds loud. He is a heavy metal singer. You need to compete with guitars with huge distortion and drums arrangements bigger than life.
The genre is very demanding.
@@carlosluismendez7392 I like kens singing in songs, but I meant the vocal exercises
thanks for your feedback
I agree with a few of your points for sure.but when you think of the singers you mentioned m jackson stevie wonder,i think even adam from marroon 5 studied sls.though they have amazing voices they are light less power then a good rock singer.which is good for what they are doing r&b.but for a rock singer training with that open ah more so then nay or gee.also hanging in chest a little longer .i really believe theres a very noticeable difference in power.sls obviously works look at all the stars its developed.i have taken sls lessons taught by seths actual student.but kens course which ive been doing since 2018 .the power and agility is just undeniable.really developing that chest as a foundation i mean really develop your chest.then you get the mix and head down .get rid of the break .holy moly the things im beginning to sing now
I hate when voice coaches dismisses other methods and their method is the only one that works. I guess its like you say, its good marketing. SLS i think helped improve some problem Ive had for sure. Have the book with the excersies. Highly recommend it. Also have Robert Luntes program and they all have benefis. But its silly when some voice coaches cant support each others methods in order to help the student and just ask the student to forget the other methods. Had coach that asked me to forget everything I learned because he had studied bel canto. Its not a good aproach.
I know i'm late. I've been using both SLS and Luntes program. They worked for me. Ive tried Kens, but I'll stick to SLS and Lunte for now. I just don't like when teachers are critiicicing other techniques that aboslutely works. It's obvious they want to convince you to stay with them, because. Well, they want the money. I had a teacher who where always criticing other methods like SLS and Lunte etc when they are really the same essentiely. He was classicly trained. However. Those are the only methods Ive been using and worked for me. Dont believe me? Check out my covers.
Many of the folks here have made some amazing points. One commenter seemed to hit all of them, so I made this response video using his comment as a template, but many of you have asked these questions: www.loom.com/share/41e7bc335f8c4c30b2e89884a2305718
SLS actually made learning how to sing fun and not an agonizing chore😊
Great points bro!
Thanks Claudio!
I have done SLS and Tamplin, I made more progress in 2 weeks with Ken than I ever made with SLS, and to be fair Ken has criticisms of Bel Canto as well. Just becasue he criticises something doesnt mean that, that is the actual thing that built his studio. That is a bit of a leap, remember he has been in the business longer than most people that teach SLS have been alive.
Tamplin took lessons from Seth Riggs for 5 years. I don't think you can say that he doesn't know enough about SLS.
Not true. Kermit is that you? Never had lessons with Seth Riggs for 5 years, it didn't happen.
@@myknittingblog forum.kentamplinvocalacademy.com/discussion/1523/ken-tamplins-singing-testimony Here's my source, where's yours?
@@marka2773 (and since then, we've never seen @myknittingblog again)
@@andreydesouzaoliveira2134 😂😂😂
Hey guys, I believe that if nothing else, we can prove that Ken has definitely spend a good deal of time observing "very famous SLS teachers" based on his own words in the original SLS doesn't work video.
Yeah SLS is great. You can hear the proof in any live dream theater performance from the last 20 years😂🤣
why does he KT curl his tongue up. I've never heard him say why. is it a technique or just his thing
He explained it, look up his video about tongue or something
It's to distract viewers from the fact he's scamming you out of your money 😀
@@mipmipmipmipmip-v5x Scam?? Wtf is wrong w u?
@@mipmipmipmipmip-v5x troll much
@@DaddyOProductions the biggest troll is parrot tongue Ken
Okay but what comes first? Eq or compression? Should I use SSL plugins or not? Man, now I hate Ken Tamplin. 😡 I’m gonna go get some graham crackers and vent my emotions. Please excuse me.
haha, you're excused
So glad someone has done a rebuttal to Ken’s very uninformed video. Either he is VERY misinformed or blatantly lied cause everyone I know that has tried an sls lesson has been very happy with the results. Like you said Matt, some teachers are a better fit than others and what training they have had and how consistent they have been with it is key but sls as a technique is amazing! Michael Jackson, Luther Vandross, Tamia, Aretha Franklin...all those voices speak for themselves! Well made video!
Thank you for your comment Kate. True, there is something you can learn from ANY teacher/technique!
I don't get this "let's talk another guy down" that you are all subscribing to..
Do your own stuff and do it great, but don't care about the others.
This obviously goes for him too, but come on, this is only supposed to help ones who want it..
Exactly! That's why I made the video
Sorry your explanation doesn't makes sense to me.
thanks for your feedback