Why Warcraft III's story works | Narrative Review

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  • Опубліковано 22 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 133

  • @Agon1stt
    @Agon1stt 2 місяці тому +7

    Love your cadence, i hope you get more discovered because you deserve it mate great video

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому

      @@Agon1stt Hey I appreciate the comment, I'm trying to improve the cadence (and there's still much to work on) so I'm glad its working for you.

  • @rupertwake7193
    @rupertwake7193 2 місяці тому +61

    AAWWWWWW YEAHH 2 HOURS OF NERD TALK IM STRAPPING IN

  • @mikoshino
    @mikoshino 2 місяці тому +4

    Thank you YT recommendations. Good job bringing me to the gang. Pls more WarCraft lore!

  • @m.k.corvus306
    @m.k.corvus306 2 місяці тому +3

    Criminally underrated. Take my like on that vid, mate - you deserved it!

  • @wolfylegend5982
    @wolfylegend5982 2 місяці тому +10

    Love your videos man, keep it up. I truly believe you can make it if you keep making videos, don't let the low view counts discourage you!

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому +4

      Thanks fella. I enjoy the project of making these videos and seeing that a handful of people will watch/listen :)

  • @iamthehobo
    @iamthehobo 2 місяці тому +15

    I just watched a multi-hour Warcraft 3 campaign review a few weeks ago but I'm already feeling down for a new one

  • @mattlee4618
    @mattlee4618 Місяць тому +12

    KT and anub are the biggest bros in the game honestly

  • @sasquatchhohman8241
    @sasquatchhohman8241 2 місяці тому +7

    Yoooo! Happy to see you post!
    I'm gonna save this for tonight while I work.

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому +1

      @@sasquatchhohman8241 Heck yeah, hope you like it.

    • @sasquatchhohman8241
      @sasquatchhohman8241 2 місяці тому +2

      As someone who's only experience with Warcraft is WoW: The Burning Crusades and Wrath of the Lich King, I thought the video was great.
      I love long form video essays like this because even if I'm not familiar or even like what the subject is, I just enjoy hearing people talk about something they really like.
      Keep up the good work!

  • @TheThezenith
    @TheThezenith 2 місяці тому +21

    part of the tragedy I feel, is I dont think Arthas would of fell if Uther and Jaina had stood with him after Stratholm. Arthas ultimately did the right thing, an entire city was about to be killed and turned into the undead, Arthas culling the city was an act of sick mercy that he was forced to carry out. And after being forced to slay the people he loved to stop them from turning into undead slaves of the burning legion what he needed was compassion and sympathy, not judgement and scorn.
    Arthas wasnt lost when he decided to cull Stratholme he was lost when his friends scorned him for it. It works so well because you can see why Uther and Jaina felt the way they did, about such a callous act, but they didnt see what the plague could do

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому +1

      Hey Zenith, this is an interesting point and I originally had another half minute musing on something similar. That is, the Stratholme decision arguably only doomed Arthas because he lost his two key support pillars. Had Uther and Jaina stayed, would he have followed Mal'Ganis to Northrend or would he have finally had a moment of clarity and collected himself? He'd been especially stubborn for a few levels now so it's possible he would've charged ahead, particularly since the Lich King had chosen him long in advance in knowing the Prince's temperament.
      But I like to imagine that some choice words from Uther could've brought him back.

    • @TheThezenith
      @TheThezenith 2 місяці тому +5

      @@Zikemach Even then if Arthas, jaina and uther arrived in northrend with Uther troops, I honestly feel like with jaina, uther, murridan and extra troops by his side he wouldn't of even needed to search for frostmourne to beat Malganis

    • @thegreatxetyr3262
      @thegreatxetyr3262 Місяць тому

      No, things would change if Jain, Uther or his knights were with Arthas in the mission in Hearthglen (March of the Scourge). Arthas wouldn't have succumb to desperation and vengeance to save his people if he had received help immediately, he might also have the time to stop or at least minimize the distribution of the plague in Stratholm thus he would only need to protect, quarantine or evacuate the remaining survivors. Why did I think that Arthas wouldn't slay his people like he did? Because there are some people who aren't infected, therefore he would prioritize their lives more than fighting Mal'ganis or the plagued survivors, he will also talk to the prophet and reports to his Father the king.
      If he couldn't stop the distribution, Jaina will have more time to check on the infected civilians in Hearthglen thus providing more research on the plague that she could report to Antonidas thus they would get help from the Mages of Kirin Tor which could persuade Arthas that quarantine might be better as there could be a way to save his people. Or Uther could have provided guidance on Arthas' first almost lost battle in Hearthglen, as he listens to Uther and only didn't when he succumb to desperation.

    • @sulemanmughal5397
      @sulemanmughal5397 Місяць тому

      it was not his call though, this decision was never his to make. Thats what arthus downfall began his ego was way to big

    • @thegreatxetyr3262
      @thegreatxetyr3262 Місяць тому

      @@sulemanmughal5397 That's my point he succumb to his ego because he never lost or even if he had lost before not this big, not at this scale. That's why if he had lost and was guided properly and immediately, there's a good chance he would be humbled by it and be a better person.

  • @zooms7026
    @zooms7026 2 місяці тому +4

    Bro, you saved my day, thanks for video. It was really cool!

  • @Gildean666
    @Gildean666 17 днів тому +2

    Awesome wideo. The W3 narrative was something that resonated perfectly with my mind - betrayals, blitzkriegs, returns from the dead, politics. It was the Game of Thrones of my times, but without unnecessary talk, only with muscled Gachi Orcs.

  • @jaroslavsklenak212
    @jaroslavsklenak212 2 місяці тому +2

    Such a great video. A bit of a nostalgia trip, thank you sincerely!

  • @Pelagion98
    @Pelagion98 2 місяці тому +3

    A great video about a game that defined my childhood! You earned yourself a sub!

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому

      You, me and many others!

  • @Alex-mo9tu
    @Alex-mo9tu 2 місяці тому +5

    So glad to see you upload new video! really do appreciate how dedicate you are to each games,
    still hoping one day I would be able to see you do Prince of Persia 2008 analysis review, thanks for all the videos you made !

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому +2

      @@Alex-mo9tu thanks fella, it's in the Steam library so it will happen eventually!

  • @RafioGoOnline
    @RafioGoOnline 2 місяці тому +9

    Here's the fun fact about DK Arthas that probably unknown for some people. Arthas's undead horse was named "Invincible" who died because Arthas's recklessness when he ride it during the heavy snowstorm that results in Invincible's leg are broken. So, Arthas killed it in heavy heart to put it out of its misery.
    Then after Arthas become Death Knight, he come to his former steed's grave and raise it into undead steed.

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому +6

      Interesting detail. I'm sure WOW and the novels did a lot to inject flavour and depth to his character in the passing years, playing up his brashness and mild arrogance. Thanks for sharing.

    • @levisamom5069
      @levisamom5069 11 днів тому +1

      A retroactive foreshadowing of the culling of Strathmore

  • @samueldavidbatistaruiz7510
    @samueldavidbatistaruiz7510 2 місяці тому +31

    so, when Arthas becomes a DK, while it is true that he becomes less of a complex character, he still holds a bit of humanity in that he actually has a sense of humor and banter. you can se it as soon as he speak with Tycondrius, when the dread lord says he no longer has a souls he has a quick witted answer with, "ill do without one", and after that when he kills Uther, he is very quick with his famous. "we may never know Uther, i intend to live forever". i always saw that as Arthas still being Arthas, just, you know, super asshole mode.

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому +3

      I agree there's some interesting snark present. I think the expansion did better and drawing out his voice/character, e.g. banishing the dreadlords, thanking Kel'Thuzad and some of his comments in the Northrend dungeons.

    • @thegreatxetyr3262
      @thegreatxetyr3262 Місяць тому +3

      At that time he still have his human heart but his humanity is being sealed by the Lich King via the voices just like with Sylvannas but when the Lich King's powers started to wane the voices started to go as well as the control over them that's also maybe why in Lordaeron he started to regain his humanity and also maybe why the Lich King hurried Arthas to comeback since he may go rogue and fully regain his humanity like Sylvannas.

  • @Milos111Zivkov
    @Milos111Zivkov 2 місяці тому +7

    I've been thinking a lot about WoW lore. What you say in this video at the end - 100% agree with you. They did Vashj, Kael and Illidan dirty in TBC. Illadin's final redemption in Legion was decent but meh in my opinion and Sylvanas was just attrocious afterwards. More than that, it somehow feels that WoW writers often stumble and lack a certain depth and I can understand why now that I've learned how chaotic their work environment often was. But to me I never liked WoW for this grand 'main' lore. The moment that expansions kind of took you by the hand and led you across different zones to the 'end content' pretending that by you choosing which zones you do first that there's some variety, that was the moment I started strongly disliking WoW, especially in BfA.
    But then relaunched Classic allowed me to experience some moments again with a more mature mind and I've realized, as a Horde player, how much I love the underdeveloped starting zones of Horde races. Barrens in particular, but even the red sands of Durotar poked my imagination. I've been hence day dreaming about a Warcraft styled TV series where we start a small story following an Orc living in this new and weird environment, hunting animals and selling their meat and pelts at markets of Crossroads or Rachet. On occasion travels to Orgrimmar and is pulled into a deeper story of treachery by the Alliance who have started propping up bases in Horde territory (Bael Modan in Barrens and Bael'dun diggsite in Mulgore by dwarves, the Northwatch hold by Kul Tirans and the incursion of Alliance mercenaries (other players) abusing neutral ports or even so called neutrality of Theramore, the burning of the inn in Dustwallow Marsh is a good example of high tensions between Horde and encroaching alliance - these snippets made me rethink Garrosh's decisions too but that's another topic).
    The uneasiness of Horde's fresh claim to the territory isn't just contested by Alliance alone, Night Elves of course fight them in Ashenvale (which led me to think that this was their main reason for joining the Alliance, to get help in staving off Horde's encroachment in the forest). But the main antagonist I think in the series at first would be Quilboars and I would really love to see this sort of story unfold. The culmination in Barrens with quillboars suck because you fight a quite a few of them but then sort of have to leave Kalimdor more often than not to level up and then return to take Razorfen Kraul and then again level up some more to take Downs... It's a missed opportunity imo

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому +2

      Interesting to hear your thoughts, Milos. I agree that Warcraft's setting lends itself to plenty of 'cosy' or slow storytelling that don't require end-of-the-world stakes. Unfortunately it's hard to ever imagine another WOW expansion or movie that doesn't rely on those big stakes as a plot device.

    • @Milos111Zivkov
      @Milos111Zivkov 2 місяці тому +2

      @@Zikemach Yeah, it just continues to over do the stakes, it makes a very monotone writting. Like, I know that Wcr always had a cheesy style of writting but in wcr3 an ft it was more of a "hell yeah" cheesy and in wow it goes to painfully cringey, especially in cinematics now, my opinion of course. But to me it gets cringey because these charactes don't interact for thw whole of gameplay and then in cinematics it's "implied" that they have a relationship or a totaly new character has to be some trope badass or trope villain. Then their cinematics and few interactions leave them with lines of dialogue that are far too cliche, best example to me is Tyrande and Sylvanas in Shadowlands. Tyrande had a better antagonistic relationship with Nathanos bwcause at least with him we see him goad and insult her like Malganis does to Arthas or Arthas does to Slyvi and even briefly with Kael. What's strange to me in WoW is that these interactions can be done quite easily with just a little foresight and yet...

    • @Milos111Zivkov
      @Milos111Zivkov 2 місяці тому +2

      @@Zikemach BfA was the last straw for me. They had a chance to revive a good wcr3 theme and they basically decided to turn it into some other story with Azhara and some random old god... like Azshara??? We hear so much about her and she gets basically the same treatment as Kael, Vashj or whoever, in an expansion that had nothing to do with her up until one update after which she fucks off into oblivion without doing much more than juat opwning up another zone in the middle of the ocean so our brave players don't drown in it - god forbid a race of deep sea dwellers fight their opponents on favorable grounds or something

  • @pavelplsek2000
    @pavelplsek2000 2 місяці тому +1

    Cool video man, very detailed... I thoroughly enjoyed it!

  • @AutumnSonderness
    @AutumnSonderness 2 місяці тому +6

    >dialogue is weakness
    >shows the most awesome, epic one-liner ever said by a BBEG in modern media
    > ???
    Jk, very good video, I enjoyed it!

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому +1

      For better or worse, Archimonde's opener has lingered in the back of my head for decades!

  • @Red1Green2Blue3
    @Red1Green2Blue3 2 місяці тому +1

    This video was amazing! Please make more video like it!

  • @kervin1693
    @kervin1693 2 місяці тому +1

    Nice video! As for Muradin: originally he was clearly killed by the ice. A huge chunk landed in his chest when it exploded, freeing frostmourn. Then WoW later retconned Muradin's death and just had him get knocked out. Reforged went with the new story.

    • @cubescihist6737
      @cubescihist6737 9 днів тому +2

      I always thought it was the explosion that knocked him. I never saw any piece of ice or anything, Although it would make sense.

    • @kervin1693
      @kervin1693 3 дні тому

      @@cubescihist6737 that's basically what reforged does, yeah. Before a massive chunk of ice impaled him

  • @Bohous156
    @Bohous156 2 місяці тому +3

    I actually like how the Legion recontextualized Illidan in The Burning Crusade, it seemed like he went mad with power to us but actually he was just being his very vague self like he was at the start of The Frozen Throne, it shows that later some people at Blizzard regreted their handling of Illidan, Vashj and Kael'thas, it's clear they really had no idea what they wanted to do with their story in tBC and by the time they knew it was too late, and looked for a new opportunity to give them a spot to shine in, Illidan in Legion, where he is an absolute highlight of a character, and Vashj and Kael'thas in Shadowlands, which unfortunately wasn't a very good expansion, especially narratively, so I feel it's a bit unfair to say that they've always meant for them to die as a random raid boss with no story continuation

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому +1

      I would argue that this later recontextualising is evidence that the original plan was to let these characters' stories fall to the wayside, otherwise there might have been some better foreshadowing of their eventual return. I have no doubt the gruelling expansion development cycle meant corners had to be cut and I'll never pin that on the staff, and I am glad that Legion was a success for Illidan's story. It's simply a shame that more time and care couldn't be taken from the start to treat the story more thoughtfully than simply hyping a big raid boss. I appreciate hearing your thoughts!

  • @otasek123
    @otasek123 2 місяці тому

    Oooooo yeeeeeee boiiiiii, another perfect Warcraft 3 video, that I will love

  • @PFworth
    @PFworth 2 місяці тому +2

    You earned my subscription

  • @ksmoorthy87
    @ksmoorthy87 2 місяці тому

    Sweet analysis. This game blew my mind back then and still does looking back:

  • @ChristopherNolemo
    @ChristopherNolemo 2 місяці тому +1

    Love this video of my favorite game! 😄

    • @LordMalice6d9
      @LordMalice6d9 12 днів тому

      The Frozen Throne is a masterpiece while the vanilla Warcraft 3 game I thought was just okay

  • @Glogdome
    @Glogdome 7 днів тому

    1:33:28 nice stun, great video on one of my favorite games.

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  7 днів тому

      Damn never noticed - Anub'arak really lined them up!

  • @joselazo9799
    @joselazo9799 2 місяці тому +3

    Though I sternly disagree about the "tasteful" visuals, as they make discerning units harder than the original, I did enjoy the overall analysis. I don't think WC3's story is terribly complex, and it might be low hanging fruit, but a great video nonetheless.

  • @hangingwithvoid360
    @hangingwithvoid360 20 днів тому +2

    Bro I wish someone would go the distance with an 8 hour plus arthas vid lol

  • @norvinsoriano8988
    @norvinsoriano8988 2 місяці тому +1

    Loved the video and the dialogue you've put into it!! I also have the same reasons for loving wc3 and its story and the same criticisms you had.
    But just a question, will you also be covering the custom campaigns that expand on the lore from WOW? Like Rise of the Blood Elves or Curse of the Forsaken? Or the retelling of the story through sevenblood's campaign?

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому

      Thanks fella. I'll take a look since I would very much like to ingest WOW's story if its presented within WC3! (Assuming its of decent quality)

    • @norvinsoriano8988
      @norvinsoriano8988 2 місяці тому

      @@Zikemach you definitely won't be disappointed with the custom campaigns ! But be sure to play the recent versions as it's more polished!

  • @blastermaster5039
    @blastermaster5039 Місяць тому +1

    1:26:01 If given a chance, I myself would be loyal to Arthas too, the True King of Lordaeron.

  • @ConfusedGoblinn
    @ConfusedGoblinn 2 місяці тому +2

    Im watching this now!
    I hope there will be some Mannoroth stuff!!!!

  • @selwrynn6702
    @selwrynn6702 2 місяці тому +1

    I think the Night Elf campaign would've been better if in the first couple missions you play as Tyrande who is constantly fleeing the encroaching Legion to wake up Illidan, during these missions you learn about the Night Elves & their views on & history with the Legion, then Tyrande goes off to wake Malfurion while you play as Illidan who leads a counterattack, crushing the Legion's forces. Towards the end Illidan unites with Tyrande & Malfurion & you play as all three of them working towards crushing the Legion's advance, during this time you get some additional back & forth learning about the dynamics between the three of them before Illidan absorbs the Skull of Gul'Dan & defeats Tichondrius, this way we can understand better WHY they exiled him, or better yet, they DON'T exile him, having him be instead a part of the assault on Archimonde, but due to his new demon powers Archimonde is able to control Illidan to attack his allies, however before the final blow can be dealt against him, he seems to regain himself, maybe due to Tyrande's cries for him to regain himself, and in that moment he leaves before he can be controlled again. I think that would make a lot more sense.
    This would also allow more chance for Tyrande & Malfurion to have character arcs as they first learn to accept Illidan once more before being forced to fight him.
    In the Frozen Throne we have more questions about who Illidan is really serving, is he actually out to end the Legion or has he truely become its pawn.

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому

      @@selwrynn6702 This is re-writing I could get behind. Does away with the uncompelling "waking the druids" arc and gives Tyrande a more desperate and interesting involvement. Nice one.

  • @fiddlefox
    @fiddlefox Місяць тому +1

    Nice work

  • @Zikemach
    @Zikemach  2 місяці тому +17

    Hello friends, glad to see you back here.
    Apologies in advance if you have a vendetta against the Reforged graphics - I find the re-skin mostly tasteful but that appreciation is admittedly soured by knowing that Blizzard wouldn't commit the time or resources to the remaster that Warcraft 3 sincerely deserved. At least the phenomenal voice acting wasn't re-touched, particularly since I think WC3's characters have better vocal variety than the usual booming bass that I've noticed (from a distance) that WOW deploys.
    Otherwise, preference about Warcraft 3's characters/factions is very subjective and mine does show in this video. Interested to hear who you rallied behind and rooted for, and if you think I skimmed over any important details relating to Arthas, Illadin or the other key players.
    Much love!

  • @bontmeister6724
    @bontmeister6724 Місяць тому

    The aspect of interwoven threads and characters from different campaigns meeting each other as both allies and opponents was something from the original Starcraft campaign that I really enjoyed. It's surprisingly deep how the player fills the shoes of the Magistrate, a Cerebrate and an Executor who are all, in the campaign itself, never given a name but are only ever addressed by their rank or position - and are later thwarting themselves or even killing their alter egos in other campaigns. The Executor of the Protoss campaign even becomes a named character in the expansion. Blizzard might not have been the most original storytellers but they were always clever with how the stories were told.

  • @zekdom
    @zekdom Місяць тому

    Time-stamp
    18:47, 19:55 - Great insight!

  • @RedPhoenixyz
    @RedPhoenixyz 2 місяці тому +10

    The best thing Blizzard could do for the story of Warcraft would be to launch Warcraft 4 as a continuation of the story from Frozen Throne while ignoring World of Warcraft. Take inspiration, sure, and keep some of the better story moments like Jaina being betrayed too many times by the Horde and going back to Kul Tiras, but ignoring 90% of the choices made for the sake of engaging raids and dungeons for an MMO would be best. Also, let's just skip all the Jailer and time-traveling, dimension-hopping Garrosh stuff.
    World of Warcraft is fun, and they have made progress in telling stories in-game. Still, I'm honestly of the opinion that MMOs aren't suited to tell stories without copious heavy lifting from cinematics and books that explain what could not be shown in-game.

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому +3

      We're in furious agreement about this. While a complete pipe dream, I would love to see the core WOW story condensed into Warcraft IV. It would allow for a cleaner, more coherent story and opportunity for some tasteful retcons (perhaps fixing Burning Crusade's treatment of Illadin, Kael and Vashj, for example). It would be a bold and popular move and would win Blizzard a lot of love, but I'm sure they've crunched the numbers and see their current trajectory as the more lucrative one.

    • @Red1Green2Blue3
      @Red1Green2Blue3 2 місяці тому +2

      I don't think they could realistically disregard WoW. Too many fans would be angry that their fave bit of lore got left out. The best they could do is give a "Canon" account of how it actually happened in an RTS format, clearing up inconsistencies as they went.

    • @cubescihist6737
      @cubescihist6737 9 днів тому

      I’m not a WoW player, but clearly there are people who love WoW, so I don’t think it would be cool to them to retcon the entirety of WoW, like what Disney did with The Star Wars expanded universe.
      I think with Warlords of Draenor, there was an opportunity to reboot the RTS series starting from Orcs and Humans, but alas it didn’t happen.

    • @RedPhoenixyz
      @RedPhoenixyz 8 днів тому +3

      @@cubescihist6737 WoW can keep going with its own MMO story, while the RTS keeps to its own continuity.

  • @thecore8605
    @thecore8605 Місяць тому +1

    Ok guys i need to stay awake all night and this brings enough dopamine to make it to tomorrow, let's do it

  • @angamaitesangahyando685
    @angamaitesangahyando685 2 місяці тому +1

    Arthas and Jaina's learning of the plague looks really like that scene in The Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1956), I wonder whether anyone else has noticed. And is there any other medieval zombie apocalypse story at all?
    - Adûnâi

  • @igorthelight
    @igorthelight 23 дні тому +1

    So... What to play after WarCraft II?
    I would suggest SpellForce III:
    * An interesting story
    * RPG/RTS hybrid
    * Mature themes
    * Beautiful graphics
    * Voice actor who gave voice to Geralt of Rivia ;-)

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  23 дні тому

      @@igorthelight thanks for the suggestion, I'll investigate this one!

    • @igorthelight
      @igorthelight 23 дні тому

      @@Zikemach It would be nice! xD

  • @skoub3466
    @skoub3466 2 місяці тому +1

    Hi did you try the custom campaign of the hyveworkshop the one whit the forsaken is quite good to follow the forsaken part of the wow lore have a nice day

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому

      I haven't ever explored custom campaigns, but if there are some solid stories and retelling of WOW lore but in WC3 I'd definitely be interested to look at these!

    • @skoub3466
      @skoub3466 2 місяці тому +1

      @@Zikemach then goto hyveworkshop-> map-> in the settings go to most downloaded and it's the 5 one

    • @skoub3466
      @skoub3466 2 місяці тому

      The blood elf one is also good but the forsaken is just above all the custom campaign based on wow lore

    • @Rotschwinge
      @Rotschwinge 2 місяці тому

      @@Zikemach You should do "Chronicles of the Second War: Tides of Darkness" then, which is a fanmade wc2 retold, orcs campaign is finished and contains more than 17 missions, human campaign will follow.

  • @RafioGoOnline
    @RafioGoOnline 2 місяці тому

    30:44 Actually Uther's words techinically happens in Shadowlands expansion

  • @PeteOfDarkness
    @PeteOfDarkness 2 місяці тому +2

    If I had one nitpick about campaigns, it is that Orcs were done dirty. Twice!
    Not only they were screwed out of island missions between tutorial and their campaign in original CD release (those levels come in WC3 demo), but also Rexxar story was whole lot of nothing initially (it's sidequest at best and only first act/episode was included on release). I don't care about how it setups WoW story or how it is supplemented by other media, good story should stand on it's own.
    If there is one thing good Reforged did (other than expanding Quel'Talas missions), then it's saving this extra content from becoming lost media.
    Also, Night Elf campaign suffers from same problem that Protoss form Starcraft do: if you play original game and expansion back-to-back, then killing Big Bad (Archimonde in WC3, Zerg Overmind in SC) is midpoint, not epic conclusion. That's why what come after feels flat and lifeless. If we had started expansion with actual Orc campaign or even Rexxar story, it would allow Maiev story to build NE agency and momentum (again), not deflate it.
    Good vid man!

  • @eadbert1935
    @eadbert1935 2 місяці тому

    quick defense of "veteran players will skip the tutorial/prologue"
    they specifically said they would add missions in reforged to the orc prologue because it lacked story.
    the problem i saw with it was that the difficulty spikes really hard there. i played through the tutorial without my brain active at all, which was too little activity xD
    they are still among the easiest missions, but i was caught off guard.
    The main issue i saw with them is that you HAVE to play the tutorial to get to the new content, which was really boring

  • @Ryan-sn3uo
    @Ryan-sn3uo 2 місяці тому +1

    I must be the oddest WC3 player out there. As a kid, my favorite character was Tyrande, with Sylvanas being a close second. I enjoyed Tyrande for being unapologetic and take no bullshit, and I thought Starfall was the coolest ability in the game. Kid me saw Arthas as an emotional burden, and Illidan as an unbearable whiny bitch with cool weapons. Perspectives have changed since now that I have grown up and learned what makes a character writing compelling. But it is amusing to think how disconnected I was from most of the player base who adored Arthas and Illidan.

  • @malikaideclouet7800
    @malikaideclouet7800 9 днів тому

    You should do ghost of tsushima next. That would be a dope video to see you do and hear your thoughts.

  • @jamieenoshima5147
    @jamieenoshima5147 2 місяці тому +7

    More than Illidan. It was Kael'Thas that got butchered for me. And yeah as a teen who grew up with WC3 also a teen with WoW sure I was looking forward to seeing Outland and the pair. At the time. But I wanted to join with Kael'Thas. His whole arc was done worse than Illidan. And his "redemption." In Shadowlands is even poorer. Least Illidan gets to be alive.

    • @selwrynn6702
      @selwrynn6702 2 місяці тому +1

      Yeah, I can understand how the Kael'Thas & Illidan stories were supposed to have happened in TBC but they really didn't explain in game why they were our enemies very well at all.

  • @ppp-zi3uu
    @ppp-zi3uu 2 місяці тому +1

    Comment to boost engagement

  • @KingOskar4
    @KingOskar4 Місяць тому

    3:50 yeeeeah 😂 now THIS "world is ending but I turn around to grind and get some potions" happened to me in almost every Final Fantasy I played, 6, 7, 10 and even Lightning Returns (albeit in Lightning returns, you can get a thirteenth day by doing all sidequests!)

  • @MrTup9991
    @MrTup9991 2 місяці тому

    Slight nitpick to the video: u mentioned how arthas will make a surprising appearance at the end of the game, then you played the illidan voiceline where he talks to arthas, kinda spoiling the fact that the ending appearance is a confrontation. I already knew this but i noticed it and was like ah maybe he could have used a different voice line here. Otherwise a cool video im loving it

  • @azemthetraveler6154
    @azemthetraveler6154 7 днів тому

    I personally think that TBC should have been a falling out between Kael and Illidan along with Illidan and the Burning Legion waging war against each other throughout Outland. The Lich King should have been a symbiosis of both Arthas and Ner'zhul's personalities and memories instead just largely being Arthas.

  • @Zersetzor
    @Zersetzor 2 місяці тому

    Why did you record the gameplay in cancer vision?

  • @blastermaster5039
    @blastermaster5039 Місяць тому

    1:44:09 Someone said it at last. Admiral Proudmoore did nothing wrong here. He would not be this hurt if he doesn't care and what he witnessed what the Orc has done gave him reason for what he did in Durotor.

  • @brunopereira6789
    @brunopereira6789 28 днів тому

    6:40 I'm confused. You said that "the dialogue is often a weakness", and then played one of the most badass quotes in the entire game

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  28 днів тому +1

      @@brunopereira6789 It's iconic. But not, in my view, one of the smoother or more natural lines.

    • @brunopereira6789
      @brunopereira6789 28 днів тому +1

      @Zikemach seems natural for a demon lord

  • @JusticeLeaguePrivacy
    @JusticeLeaguePrivacy 2 місяці тому +4

    Agree that the Night Elf campaign is the weakest (of both the main game and the expansion pack). Illadin is only playable once (and once more in the Frozen Throne) and without those missions the Night Elf storyline is entirely forgettable.

    • @cubescihist6737
      @cubescihist6737 9 днів тому +1

      I noticed that almost every mission of the night elf campaitn is about getting a new ally to fight against the Legion, but there’s almost no mission about fighting the legion itself, except for the Illidan mission and the final mission.

  • @kobemqrtin3568
    @kobemqrtin3568 Місяць тому

    I find it interesting how Brood war and Frozen throne are both better than the base games insofar as story to concerned

  • @kacperszafranski2983
    @kacperszafranski2983 2 місяці тому +3

    It's really ironic that Admiral Proudmoore turned out to be correct.
    On ideas front at least, not sure starting the war with the Horde then and there was such a good idea (probably not, since he ended up losing).
    The first human campaign is my favourite, it was one of my first video games with actual plot and seeing the noble hero falling so much due to horrors of the world around him did impact me.
    Also, Reforged is hot diarrhea. Graphics included

  • @Morbidhouse
    @Morbidhouse 2 місяці тому

    Fact of the matter is I have more fun playing warcraft 3 today than I do wow.

  • @KleberDKurosaki
    @KleberDKurosaki 8 днів тому +1

    Garithos meme campaing > WotLK

  • @superhbman
    @superhbman 2 місяці тому

    i agree with your opinions. however, i personally like Illidan's portrayal in Legion. and yea, Shadowlands ruined Sylvanas and Arthas.

  • @equusquaggaquagga536
    @equusquaggaquagga536 Місяць тому

    It is also doubtful that any Night Elf would help Illidan destroy the undead if it means also pledging themselves to a demon lord like he has

  • @Aztonio
    @Aztonio 2 місяці тому +2

    So then, what happened to Ner’zhul… First, in this video everything is still intact. And in WotLK they didn't even write it clearly. In fact, they wrote inconsistent things! (What a surprise.) The freaking book stated that he "stabbed him, and himself, in their own mind" (that sounds intelligent when it's just brain rot lol) But the game blends two versions.
    The very first seconds of the cinematic states "Arthas" as we're watching the Lich King, which was only the very start of that disaster of an expansion. But a few lines later, we also have several references to Ner'zhul ! (In fact, his name appears only ONCE in "his" own expansion... Not surprised he's in wrath) And for example in one of his famous video-calls to us, the Lich King just stated he was a shaman before. So either Arthas retrieved his memories (after all he had to become a LICH first, who knows how. He was literally unqualified for the job, like Bolvar 🤦).
    And then there's the whole weird plot with his young self but with an anagram (wowow brainpower), the same he stabbed *like Ner'zhul !!* So then, where's Ner'zhul ? If Arthas is split in two, then why wouldn't he be at least half of the bad Arthas himself ? But that's not completely it, because the very main problem is that whoever he was, the Lich King was clinically braindead. (And heartless, just like Davy Jones ! The Scourges must always have a captain... Look at the release date of the movie and you'll understand what happened in the devs' "brains" 🤯) His plans just made no sense and he was a ridiculous threat from start to the end, just to reveal a "plan" taken from some shonen anime. This can't be true, there had to be someone else who messed his mind up, some upper God of Death... Oh, hello Shadowlands.
    FINALLY! Like Legion fixed BC lore (or a tiny part at least) THAT is the main reason why the Jailer exists, and we've always craved for his existence. Hadès himself was, in fact, constantly tormenting the Lich King, mad that NONE of them had submitted to him. So all three (four...) Lich Kings took control at one point of another, under the name of "Arthas". As long as we care, Arthas could have been just the kid and his bad side was just Jailer messing up the plans Ner'zhul's has carefully built for years, as he won wars and destroyed entire kingdoms by the power of his own mind, he wasted everything on a pathetic invasion... So during that, Ner'zhul was not only resisting Kil Jaeden and the Chaos, but also Death itself! Now that brings back some badass epicness! 😎
    And Nathrezims also regained some value. In Warcraft 3 they were conspiring vampires and demons of death, who likely partly created the Lich King as Kil’Jaeden ordered. But since BC they’ve become thrashmobs. In Legion we discovered their home planet, but they were still losers. And with the new ordered cosmology, they had not much room left for necromancy but as a hobby. NOW we finally get to see the “well hidden” truth behind their upper plan, and as much as it may sound easy retcon… Damneds! It’s just refreshing to finally see them relevant again.
    What’s especially good in SL is they didn’t actually remove any lore. Despite the sayings about “retcons”, Blizzard hates to frontally cancel old lore, and rather adds new pieces to the puzzles to tune everything together. Also, let’s not talk too much about Kel'Thuzad's mediocre appearance… but it's still the top quality of what he has ever got in this game! (The guard dog of the fallen Lordaeron… what the hell was Naxxramass doing in Mulgore ?!) And despite an embarrassing mistake left in the game, the devs confirmed he was still purely Ner’zhul’s dog in WC3.
    Yes, SL was just a fine lore expansion overall. But sadly, it was cut short... Because at the same time the real world was burning in viruses and trials or whatever. So Sylvanas’ book only stated that Zovaal amusedly watched Arthas play with his poo. 😅 (it's still inconsistent anyway) BTW if Jailer looked so ridiculous... it's because Blizzard thought recreating the same exact narration used for Lich King in WotLK would have been a “safe” fan-service (for how surprisingly FEW they made in an expansion about deads!) But no, because players are now more conscious, but also under ten times more Nostalgic cOpIuM©, which makes them believe that the crap they see now is different than the same exact thing they were fond of before. The worst mistakes Blizzard ever made were when they tried to “listen” to players. Because a noisy mass of players, by definition, sounds mostly irrational.
    But writers did start way more ballsy like in SL prepatch, almost mocking what Terenas said. And they should have even stated that his spirit (who resurrected us... Somehow™) was in fact Jailer undercover and lying again. Because like Azerothian invasion on Outland caused by Kil’Jaeden, only fools could ever trust such dumb idea. Without control, the Scourges... Well, they just become braindead zombies... Or else, FORSAKEN?! That's the whole point, the Lich King IS the threat! (And the source of their power. Hello DK class and Acherus, in freestyle lore since 2008 ✓ The liiiight is too strong in Luke-... uh, Tirion!) It may sound like everyone was dumb... But it was the case, no one was taking the story seriously or reading quests. On another hand, yeah it could be reformulated. A few "Forsaken" necromancers can always take over and pause some threat... After all, one of them even destroyed the helm of domination and tore apart the tissue of cosmic realms! 🤸‍♂️

    • @Aztonio
      @Aztonio 2 місяці тому

      (I wrote this comment a few days ago for a similar video but I think it's perfect. 😅 )

    • @Aztonio
      @Aztonio 2 місяці тому +1

      Nice for using Reforged graphics by the way!
      I now recommend the fan remake of Warcraft 2: Chronicles of Second War. 😉

  • @AmitCinematicUniverse
    @AmitCinematicUniverse 2 місяці тому

    So, whenever Arthas killed a demon, did he destroy their souls?

  • @arkadiuszjuszczak565
    @arkadiuszjuszczak565 8 днів тому

    Zup zup!

  • @travelrambles8556
    @travelrambles8556 2 місяці тому +2

    not interested in paying scam blizzard to try out Reforged myself so I've only ever experienced it vicariously through YT 😂

  • @local_cow
    @local_cow 2 місяці тому +3

    >reforged graphics
    why would you ruin such a great video :(

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому +1

      @@local_cow appreciate they're not for everyone, but they grew on me over time. If its a dealbreaker, the video might still make for a passable podcast!

  • @equusquaggaquagga536
    @equusquaggaquagga536 Місяць тому

    Daenerys did not so much "go mad for no reason"
    More like she realized that her own hero's quest was a lie
    Nobody wanted her back and she's not even the rightful queen

  • @brunopereira6789
    @brunopereira6789 28 днів тому +1

    I like most of this review but there's too much night elf slander >

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  20 днів тому

      @@brunopereira6789 my favourite in ladder, my least favourite in campaign

  • @corporateturtle6005
    @corporateturtle6005 2 місяці тому +1

    Warcraft III: Refunded
    🤣

  • @martind5653
    @martind5653 Місяць тому

    now play re-reforged

  • @docbrown2045
    @docbrown2045 2 місяці тому +1

    They should have made another expansion in which Arthas starts strong but eventually loses to the good guys whoever they are. But oh well, we got plenty of crappy WoW expansions and Reforged instead.

  • @DrakeDoe
    @DrakeDoe 2 місяці тому +1

    I'm rather disappointed. While it's been a very long time since I've watched your older videos, I don't remember the audio balancing being this bad. You should not make the game volume or the music volume or any other volume in the game louder than your narration. Audio normalization. It's very likely to become more sensitive to this since you've last posted so it could be my own problem. Outside of that, fantastic video. In fact, I enjoyed the video overall so much that it exacerbated my problem with the audio

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому +2

      Thanks for the feedback Drake - and I do agree. The audio with this one was a struggle start to finish, my initial recordings being an inconsistent volume across the 90 minute audio track. I reined in the worst offenders but it's not ideal. I'll get it right from the start next time or otherwise look into post-production software that might help balance it out.

    • @HeatherSchrivener-el2mx
      @HeatherSchrivener-el2mx 2 місяці тому +4

      It’s not entirely on him - the fighting noises during in-game cutscenes are way too loud and it drowns out dialogue a lot. It’s an issue from the game that other retrospectives have brought up.

  • @Kallikukurinn
    @Kallikukurinn 2 місяці тому +1

    Reforged: Video dismissed

  • @clanpsi
    @clanpsi 2 місяці тому +2

    This is a *very* extended longwinded synopsis, not a review.

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому +1

      Longwinded is my specialty.
      That said, I'd argue there's some modest literary analysis, e.g. 19:02 talks about the devices used to make the Stratholme purge compelling.

  • @Евгений-ф8у6б
    @Евгений-ф8у6б 2 місяці тому

    Скучнo и нeинтeрecнo!!!

  • @onefiftycanningvale
    @onefiftycanningvale 2 місяці тому

    Arthas = Hitler?

  • @johannessimola1615
    @johannessimola1615 2 місяці тому

    this analysis is wrong as itself should be based on war1 and 2 combined with war3 manual and novel day of the dragons which came year earlier. As you cannot make proper analysis without stuff which played a role in making them and this video pretty much ignored all fo them which didn't come up as straight point in war3.
    ps:new god of war games are shit as the isn't any media which makes beliavable after GoW3 kratos would become that and even make of original games dislike the new series as such its bad because it claims to be properly connected to GoW trilogy same as how Rings of powers is sad while claiming to be loyal to tolkiens vision and using his name.

    • @Zikemach
      @Zikemach  2 місяці тому +1

      Hey Johannes, thanks for watching. Like a lot of other players I first interacted with the franchise with WC3 so I wanted to limit the scope of discussion to WC3. I did have the manual but never read it. Of course a review that included the novel and former games would be more holistic and allow me to better appreciate easter eggs and choice dialogue, but that wasn't the experience I wanted to capture or speak to. Rather, I wanted to talk about how WC3's story functions as a standalone piece of media, particularly where the developers create the campaign with full knowledge that there'll be many players who dive in with no other context - and I think they did pretty great, as I say in the video.

    • @johannessimola1615
      @johannessimola1615 2 місяці тому

      @@Zikemach well if look at people who bought it at its launch most were players of earlier games and biggest part of people who played and didn't have experience from earlier games people too young or who played after WoW released seeing that they wouldn't have any context for anything lets start with... for that there was war3 manual inside every game box which explained all of those events but you ignored those aswell...
      manual explained first and second wars, orcs corruption by demons, what happened to ner'zhul war2 btdps ending and creation of the scourge, day of the dragons events etc.