As long as they still spin true. I've tried this trick and it works fine with a recurve with 5" feathers because the bow is so slow. But with my 300 fps compound, the rubber o-ring threw it off just enough that it WAY overcame the not being indexed thing. It's much more important to have arrows spinning true than to have broadheads lined up.
I did a lot of testing on this theory about 10 years ago using quikfletch vanes. I offset 1/2 of them from the broadhead blades and aligned the other half. They two groups grouped differently but consistently. The aligned arrows grouped closer to the bullseye for me. I now apply the quikfletch vanes first to raw shafts and then install the inserts, with broadheads firmly seated, and align them with the fletchings. They fly great for me.
I build all my own arrows and unfortunately I never thought about indexing them. That being said I took them apart,put all new hardware,and indexed my broad heads. I could tell the difference within 2 shot. Thank you great tip!!
If I built a 1/2 dozen, when I get ready to install the brass insert I screw the broadhead in as you said. I take 3 broad heads, mark them with a fine black sharpie, 1, 2, 3 then align 2 arrows for each head. I write on the white fletch G5 1, G5 2, G5 3. then I can put target points in and use them for practice.
I square up the face of aluminum inserts all the time using the original G5 ASD and the sanding face. Never use the blade face as it will only track the same imperfection repeatedly. Having said that, just sand down the face until it's square and the broadheads will sit flat on its face, no matter if the threaded shank of the insert isn't true to the centerline of the arrow shaft. There's enough free-play inside the shank to allow for that. I do this all the time for guys with already-made arrows and want to install broadheads on them. I also custom ordered 25,000 teeny-tiny nylon washers that fit between the arrow and the broadhead so that you could tweak/align the blades with the vanes as the nylon gives a little when compressed down.
Bravo, I think your videos are very informative and I'm glad I came across your UA-cam channel. However, I'd like to point out a couple of things. 1. When you are using your squaring tool the preasure you put on the arrow to get it to spin deforms (bends) the arrow and the arrow is no longer perpendicular to the abrasive. I use a wood disk sander with the arrow lying perpendicular to the disk against a 6" support that I rotate the arrow against thus eliminating the bending of the arrow. 2. With a helical or offset fletching, aligning the blades of the broadhead with the fletching looks good but in reality, as the arrow spins when it is shot the air turbulence of the blade will not be in alignment with the fletching because the arrow is spinning.
As the vanes spin, they will no longer be in the same aerodynamic plane. You'd have to slightly offset them depending on arrow velocity and rotation velocity. But yeah, they'll look pretty....
Great vid. What about 4 blade Slick Tricks with 3 fletch blazers? Plus I nock my arrows with the cock vane canted toward my riser for cable clearance. Would I still align one blade with the cock vane thus canting both. I assume yes.
You mention that it seems kind of obvious to have the blades inline with the fletchings. Some race cars put their spoiler way up high to get it out of disturbed air. By that logic, it might also be good to have a fletching directly between a pair of blades, so it gets cleaner air. I have no idea what's best in practice.
Great video thanks. If the inserts happen to be glued in prior to trying broadhead indexing, just swap broadheads around to different arrows. Each insert is going to be indexed a little different from the others. If you swap them around you will eventually get them to match up.
Good point...excuse the pun, haha. But yeah, after watching this vid i decided to do this with my broad heads. I unthreaded them all (only 5 at the moment) from the shafts (alum. inserts) and tried swapping them around. Some came closer to lining up in any given shaft than others, so i took the closest match and then twirled the arrow vertically on a piece of 280 grit sandpaper to remove just a little bit off the face of the alum. insert. I drilled a 5/16" hole nice and straight thru a small block of 1" pine 1x4 to help maintain square contact with the sandpaper sandwiched b/w the 1x4 and the larger piece of 1x6 that the sandpaper was placed face up on. I admit it's a bit dodgy and not as precise as a proper squaring set up. Don't have one of those yet so need to get or build one. But anyway, the point of my ramble is simply to say that i was able to sand off enough on the face of the alum. inserts to get the blades and vanes all nicely lined up. The acid test now will be to shoot them and see how true they fly. I spun them all and they appear to be spinning nice and true, so....fingers crossed.
always nice to have the blades lining up with the fletcching! I was wondering if the blue hot melt would be decent for standard shafts, couldn't you heat the broadhead adjust and run under cold water.
Like he said, removing the wobble is the most important thing. I have in the past purposely indexed broad heads in between the vanes and inline with the vanes and randomly with no noticeable accuracy at 40 yards as long as the spin true. I spin them on my finger so I can feel the wobble if it’s there
If your three blade is perfectly lined up with your fletch, and the fletch has helical, they won’t be flying in the same ‘wind tunnel’. If you have no helical then it would as long as there is no side wind. What do you do with a 4 blade, or 2 blade?
I squared my arrows and my Broadheads matched the vanes. But, when I put collars on the arrows, they weren’t matching the vanes again. What should I do? I tried squaring the collar but that wasn’t working.
Would indexing your fletch with your arrows sort of diminish the purpose of your fletchings? i’ve always heard that aligning them would harm arrow flight if the broadhead began to plane off in one direction or another as the fletchings are there to counteract any of that. or does that not matter if you’ve properly bareshafted your dozen and paper tuned everything the right way?
What you might want to do with the GT/non-HIT is use a 7-10 minute epoxy. After you push the broadhead (epoxied) & align it. Why not spin it the broadheads & check for wobbles? You can unscrew the broadheads after the 7-10 minutes. But, it will still need 12-24 hours to cure the epoxy & shoot them.
I think it used to make a huge difference to index, but today’s arrows are 100x straighter and more consistent than they used to be. Of course, you can buy more consistency by getting a companies top end arrows.
Yeah like I said, it's much more important that they're spinning well. But just knowing they're all coming out of the bow indentical eliminates one more reason why you missed haha
Love the videos, I think there a huge help . Especially for the DIY guys. Quick question. I always see you wearing a bow rack hat. Are you affiliated with them ? And how can I get one ?
Say you’re shooting like a tooth of the arrow broadhead or any 4 blade broadhead, do you recommend also having 4 vanes or how would I align it with a 3 vane arrow?
Just have the top blade lined up between the top two vanes. Really as long as there is no wobble in the tip/shaft when they spin the alignment doesn't matter. Mentally it's just nice to make them all cookie cutter
You said you think it's a good thing to do but really didn't give a solid reason to do it. You claimed that when they are shot the blades and the fletch are in the same wind tunnel. How could that be? They are on average 28 to 29 inches apart. So in that distance the arrow has to turn the fletching to exactly the same place that the blades were when they passed that same spot. Has this ever been tested in a wind tunnel? If it is true then what does a four blade or two bladed head do to it. Should we shoot four fletching with them? I don't buy this at all. We get over techy sometimes and I believe this is definitely one of those times. This is most likely just guys thinking it looks better. I like your videos and re-watch most of them so please keep up the good work.
It’s more just an OCD thing. When you make them all cookie-cutter and indexed the same you just use one to practice with and know they’ll all fly the same
So I know this videos old but youtude recommended it to me. Indexing broadheads apart from the psychological affect it has does nothing for arrowflight. In terms of drag down the shaft the lenght of the arrow (even on crossbow bolts) is to long and the void cause by the blades collapse only a few centimeters past the the back edge of them to help out the fletching/vanes. In terms of rotation it makes 0 difference if the are off set from the fletchings/vanes or not because the pressure they put in the air is the same on both ends of the arrow either way. So indexed or not the arrow rotates at the same speed. What was the greatest impact is the straightness of the arrow how straight the head is along with the insert or end of the shaft is and how well the fletchings and vanes are put on (glu quality how well each one bonded making sure each one is at the same pitch things like that)
Yeah it’s just nice having them all cookie cutter and knowing they’re all coming out of the bow exactly the same. I agree though that it’s much more important that they all spin perfectly and have no wobble
@@blevinsbulldog1 I use a broadhead wrench and I've been bowhunting for 42 yrs. I can get the broadheads a lot tighter with a wrench than with my fingers.
Cringing watching you tighten the head with your fingers, or is it not a real sharp broadhead? I have no feeling in one fingertip from a bad experience with that
Your theory about being in the same wind tunnel is not totally accurate. By the time the fletching gets the the spot the broadhead was the arrow has rotated so if they are lined up they will both have different wind tunnels. That being said, clocking the broadheads to the arrow and the fletching will help be consistent and that is the main goal of any archery shooter.
With “standard” inserts. I use an o-ring or dental floss between the inserts and broadheads to align them.
As long as they still spin true. I've tried this trick and it works fine with a recurve with 5" feathers because the bow is so slow. But with my 300 fps compound, the rubber o-ring threw it off just enough that it WAY overcame the not being indexed thing. It's much more important to have arrows spinning true than to have broadheads lined up.
I find it to be psychological advantage when you look down the arrow just prior to coming to full-draw and seeing them aligned - good stuff!
I did a lot of testing on this theory about 10 years ago using quikfletch vanes. I offset 1/2 of them from the broadhead blades and aligned the other half. They two groups grouped differently but consistently. The aligned arrows grouped closer to the bullseye for me. I now apply the quikfletch vanes first to raw shafts and then install the inserts, with broadheads firmly seated, and align them with the fletchings. They fly great for me.
So glad I found your UA-cam! Hands down the most informative for archery! Thanks from New Brunswick 🇨🇦
I build all my own arrows and unfortunately I never thought about indexing them. That being said I took them apart,put all new hardware,and indexed my broad heads. I could tell the difference within 2 shot. Thank you great tip!!
Great content. What about indexing a single bevel with a 4 fletch?
Appreciate the info, just bought axis arrows for this season and I was curious about this. Good timing 👍
If I built a 1/2 dozen, when I get ready to install the brass insert I screw the broadhead in as you said. I take 3 broad heads, mark them with a fine black sharpie, 1, 2, 3 then align 2 arrows for each head. I write on the white fletch G5 1, G5 2, G5 3. then I can put target points in and use them for practice.
I am so happy I found your videos, this video saved me a HUGE amount of time re-fletching lol 😂 awesome tip !!
I square up the face of aluminum inserts all the time using the original G5 ASD and the sanding face. Never use the blade face as it will only track the same imperfection repeatedly. Having said that, just sand down the face until it's square and the broadheads will sit flat on its face, no matter if the threaded shank of the insert isn't true to the centerline of the arrow shaft. There's enough free-play inside the shank to allow for that. I do this all the time for guys with already-made arrows and want to install broadheads on them. I also custom ordered 25,000 teeny-tiny nylon washers that fit between the arrow and the broadhead so that you could tweak/align the blades with the vanes as the nylon gives a little when compressed down.
You could also use cool melt so you can use HOT faucet water to loosen the glue and then rotate into alignment...
Bravo, I think your videos are very informative and I'm glad I came across your UA-cam channel. However, I'd like to point out a couple of things. 1. When you are using your squaring tool the preasure you put on the arrow to get it to spin deforms (bends) the arrow and the arrow is no longer perpendicular to the abrasive. I use a wood disk sander with the arrow lying perpendicular to the disk against a 6" support that I rotate the arrow against thus eliminating the bending of the arrow. 2. With a helical or offset fletching, aligning the blades of the broadhead with the fletching looks good but in reality, as the arrow spins when it is shot the air turbulence of the blade will not be in alignment with the fletching because the arrow is spinning.
How do you set up a 3 blade broadhead, with 4-fletch vanes?
As the vanes spin, they will no longer be in the same aerodynamic plane. You'd have to slightly offset them depending on arrow velocity and rotation velocity. But yeah, they'll look pretty....
Great vid. What about 4 blade Slick Tricks with 3 fletch blazers? Plus I nock my arrows with the cock vane canted toward my riser for cable clearance. Would I still align one blade with the cock vane thus canting both. I assume yes.
Assume thank for doing all you do man thank you so much again
You mention that it seems kind of obvious to have the blades inline with the fletchings. Some race cars put their spoiler way up high to get it out of disturbed air. By that logic, it might also be good to have a fletching directly between a pair of blades, so it gets cleaner air. I have no idea what's best in practice.
Great video thanks. If the inserts happen to be glued in prior to trying broadhead indexing, just swap broadheads around to different arrows. Each insert is going to be indexed a little different from the others. If you swap them around you will eventually get them to match up.
That can work if the threads on the broadheads aren't all the same. If they are the same though, they will all index the same shaft to shaft.
Good point...excuse the pun, haha. But yeah, after watching this vid i decided to do this with my broad heads. I unthreaded them all (only 5 at the moment) from the shafts (alum. inserts) and tried swapping them around. Some came closer to lining up in any given shaft than others, so i took the closest match and then twirled the arrow vertically on a piece of 280 grit sandpaper to remove just a little bit off the face of the alum. insert. I drilled a 5/16" hole nice and straight thru a small block of 1" pine 1x4 to help maintain square contact with the sandpaper sandwiched b/w the 1x4 and the larger piece of 1x6 that the sandpaper was placed face up on. I admit it's a bit dodgy and not as precise as a proper squaring set up. Don't have one of those yet so need to get or build one. But anyway, the point of my ramble is simply to say that i was able to sand off enough on the face of the alum. inserts to get the blades and vanes all nicely lined up. The acid test now will be to shoot them and see how true they fly. I spun them all and they appear to be spinning nice and true, so....fingers crossed.
always nice to have the blades lining up with the fletcching! I was wondering if the blue hot melt would be decent for standard shafts, couldn't you heat the broadhead adjust and run under cold water.
I do just that with my Easton Axis. Never had an issue with damaging the carbon or my inserts coming loose when penetrating game.
How would you square 4 blade tooth of the arrow?
Awesome video! but how about a four fletch with a twin blade broadhead??
when squaring your arrow with a standard insert that is already glued. Do i have to take it out and realign? what do you suggest? thanks
What about when you have a 4-fletch arrow with a three blade broadhead?
Or vice versa
Buy a 4 blade broad head
@@blackwateroutdoors7364 You should open your own archery shop. Your ideas are so innovative.
Like he said, removing the wobble is the most important thing. I have in the past purposely indexed broad heads in between the vanes and inline with the vanes and randomly with no noticeable accuracy at 40 yards as long as the spin true. I spin them on my finger so I can feel the wobble if it’s there
I looking at going back to the cut on contact broadheads, I’m looking at the Magnus Black Hornet Ser-Razor 4-Blade Broadhead how would you align them.
If your three blade is perfectly lined up with your fletch, and the fletch has helical, they won’t be flying in the same ‘wind tunnel’. If you have no helical then it would as long as there is no side wind.
What do you do with a 4 blade, or 2 blade?
I squared my arrows and my Broadheads matched the vanes. But, when I put collars on the arrows, they weren’t matching the vanes again. What should I do? I tried squaring the collar but that wasn’t working.
What brand arrow squaring device do you use in this video?
I have a G5 one and it works great
Helpful!! Thank you!
Any tips on indexing a 3 blade BH with a 4 fletch arrow?
Top blade between the two top vanes...but really doesn't matter
do you not use a footer or BAR with the axis?
Purely cosmetic. A tuned bow with a tuned arrow will shoot it. This has been a wife’s tale for many years.
Would indexing your fletch with your arrows sort of diminish the purpose of your fletchings? i’ve always heard that aligning them would harm arrow flight if the broadhead began to plane off in one direction or another as the fletchings are there to counteract any of that. or does that not matter if you’ve properly bareshafted your dozen and paper tuned everything the right way?
yeah, you want the blades to be offset from your vanes. This guy is wrong.
What you might want to do with the GT/non-HIT is use a 7-10 minute epoxy. After you push the broadhead (epoxied) & align it. Why not spin it the broadheads & check for wobbles? You can unscrew the broadheads after the 7-10 minutes. But, it will still need 12-24 hours to cure the epoxy & shoot them.
When it comes to a 4 vane arrow, does it matter when the broad-head is relative to the fletching?
Not really, but generally I align the top blade between the top two vanes
Could you tell me where your bow shop is located?
Springfield, OR
If you're removing anything from the shaft, doesn't that change the spine of the arrow? and also change the gr of the shaft?
Unless you're RIGHT on the verge of being too weak or too stiff, the weight of the vanes really won't change anything
what do you suggest I must do when I shoot with 4 vanes? what alignment would you the use?
Just align a blade between the top two vanes
Inside Out Precision perfect, thank you so much!! Really enjoy your channel!
I think it used to make a huge difference to index, but today’s arrows are 100x straighter and more consistent than they used to be. Of course, you can buy more consistency by getting a companies top end arrows.
Yeah like I said, it's much more important that they're spinning well. But just knowing they're all coming out of the bow indentical eliminates one more reason why you missed haha
What were you using to square those arrows and will they work with any carbon arrow? I use beman’s because they are cheaper and shoot fine for me.
Does this apply for crossbows? Just got my first crossbow, g5 fixed broadheads
Id assume so but I've never even held a crossbow so I have no idea haha
What would you do for a three blade and four fletch arrows?
Line up the tip blade so it's vertical and there's a vane on either side
What if your shoot a 4 fletch?
Align top blade between top two vanes
What companies do you buy your are building supplies. I want to start building my own arrow.
I like the Bitzenberger fletching jig and the Firenock arrow square/spine finder!
@@InsideOutPrecision thank you I've hard a little hard time finding the stuff I need to get started on building my own arrows
Love the videos, I think there a huge help . Especially for the DIY guys. Quick question. I always see you wearing a bow rack hat. Are you affiliated with them ? And how can I get one ?
Yeah I work at The Bow Rack. Just go to our website or call the shop at 541-746-9711
Say you’re shooting like a tooth of the arrow broadhead or any 4 blade broadhead, do you recommend also having 4 vanes or how would I align it with a 3 vane arrow?
Just have the top blade lined up between the top two vanes. Really as long as there is no wobble in the tip/shaft when they spin the alignment doesn't matter. Mentally it's just nice to make them all cookie cutter
What about with a hybrid like the Grim Reaper Micro Hybrid (which you guys recommended when I bought my custom shafts recently)
This is exactly how I do it.
any concern with carbon fiber dust when grinding?
Nope not really, just tap it out if it's already inserted. If it's not inserted yet, just clean it with a Q Tip.
What about 4 blade fixed broadheads?
Just line up one of the blades with your vertical vane.
What if you’re shooting a two blade? 😅
Needs to be aligned with index vane (vertical)
The G5 squaring device is designed to shave aluminum inserts
I was going to make this same comment.
They also have a grinding blade to square arrow ends just flip the blade around
If you have to replace the broad head will a another broad head that's the exactly the same line up the same?
Depends on the brand
How about if shooting 4 blade?
That what I want to know
You said you think it's a good thing to do but really didn't give a solid reason to do it. You claimed that when they are shot the blades and the fletch are in the same wind tunnel. How could that be? They are on average 28 to 29 inches apart. So in that distance the arrow has to turn the fletching to exactly the same place that the blades were when they passed that same spot. Has this ever been tested in a wind tunnel? If it is true then what does a four blade or two bladed head do to it. Should we shoot four fletching with them? I don't buy this at all. We get over techy sometimes and I believe this is definitely one of those times. This is most likely just guys thinking it looks better. I like your videos and re-watch most of them so please keep up the good work.
It’s more just an OCD thing. When you make them all cookie-cutter and indexed the same you just use one to practice with and know they’ll all fly the same
So I know this videos old but youtude recommended it to me. Indexing broadheads apart from the psychological affect it has does nothing for arrowflight. In terms of drag down the shaft the lenght of the arrow (even on crossbow bolts) is to long and the void cause by the blades collapse only a few centimeters past the the back edge of them to help out the fletching/vanes. In terms of rotation it makes 0 difference if the are off set from the fletchings/vanes or not because the pressure they put in the air is the same on both ends of the arrow either way. So indexed or not the arrow rotates at the same speed. What was the greatest impact is the straightness of the arrow how straight the head is along with the insert or end of the shaft is and how well the fletchings and vanes are put on (glu quality how well each one bonded making sure each one is at the same pitch things like that)
Yeah it’s just nice having them all cookie cutter and knowing they’re all coming out of the bow exactly the same. I agree though that it’s much more important that they all spin perfectly and have no wobble
It's just state of mind. It makes no difference if they're aligned. Just ask anybody who shoots two blade broadheads.
An entire pro shop full of equipment and not a single broadhead wrench to be found anywhere, really? Your the pro, set the example dude.
who in the hell uses a broad head wrench?!?!?
Done so many sets I don't need a wrench any more! But they do help to keep from cutting yourself if you're a rookie
@@blevinsbulldog1 I use a broadhead wrench and I've been bowhunting for 42 yrs. I can get the broadheads a lot tighter with a wrench than with my fingers.
“Porpoisy action”
My understanding is
That there is no aerodynamic or mechanical advantage in indexing your arrows.
Just tune your arrows. Broadhead indexing don't matter
Cringing watching you tighten the head with your fingers, or is it not a real sharp broadhead? I have no feeling in one fingertip from a bad experience with that
Your theory about being in the same wind tunnel is not totally accurate. By the time the fletching gets the the spot the broadhead was the arrow has rotated so if they are lined up they will both have different wind tunnels. That being said, clocking the broadheads to the arrow and the fletching will help be consistent and that is the main goal of any archery shooter.