I watched the video, went and bought a clamp, and I'm amazed! All of my arrows are flying better than ever. And my funky fliers are fixed now. Great stuff! Thank you 👍👍
Another thing I do is turn the bare shaft where it tears the worst and tune your bow to bullet hole it, now your bow is tuned for the worst possible direction and shoots the arrows all most anyway if your spine is right. Awesome video
Saw your video and bought a bar clamp set up, drilled pin holes as close to the center of pressure on each clamp as I could. Tested a number of arrows 20 and 21” for my cross bows. I found that the bend in the arrows was consistent and that it was the same no matter the orientation in the clamp, I even swapped arrows end to clamps from one side to the other and bend was the same. I also experimented with rocking the clamp with the socket end and it didn’t change the bend direction of the shaft. I marked the weak side and fletched the cock feather along that alignment. Haven’t done any extensive flight testing but so far very pleased. I really want to get a camera to watch the arrow flight, I have done this with my iPhone and it’s interesting but the resolution is not good enough to be able to easily see any definite variation of flight. Thanks for your work! Oh and I saw no difference in the bend using the clamp set up in the horizontal and rotating the arrow loosening and retightening the clamp.
arrows bend 90 degrees away from stiffest point of the shaft when hit into rear, there is no reason what so ever to find weakest point with bend testing, this guy is either utterly mislead or dosnt know better, likely both
Just found you this morning trying to fix some tuning issues. My summer target settup was spot on. Swapping over to a heavier hunting arrow and can not get it in tune. I’ll be stopping at Home Depot for a clamp and hiding in the basement shooting through apart tonight lol.
Perfect timing ... Ive been shooting Long range/PRS and have been reloading for quite a few years and anyone that does the same knows the enjoyment of getting the best out of your loads/rifle . Just got back into my archery and knowing the importance a precision load for my rifles ,and how OCD it can be loading , lol , I want to do the same for my bows ( Mathews ) with the arrows , so this time around want to do as much as possible , been looking at the spine testers and came across your vids this morning and its a no brainer , simple , affordable and shows what the arrows will do with the force produced by a bow , not some random spinning on a tool with a weight . Just ordered my clamps will be here tomorrow , looking forward to giving this a try ...
A tip I learned for consistent grip pressure, is to look at the top cam at full draw. If you have good grip pressure the string will be coming straight out of the string track.
Thank you so much. This has saved me and my cousin lots of time. We tried paper tuning/nock tuning… our form broke down before we could really get anything accomplished. With this method, we were able to shoot bullet holes, and if not, it’s because the bow was out of spec/tune, or it was out form. But this has definitely simplified our process. Now I can work form in the garage, knowing that if I shoot bullet holes, my form is good. And if I tear, then that’s me. Thanks again!🙌🏼 🏹 🎯
Here's a tip to save paper lol Put dots across the paper (can number them if you want) move your sight to your 60yd mark,then when shooting through the paper aim at the dot,your arrow will go approximately 1" below the dot 😊 Get lots more tuning from each roll of paper 😉
My new trick - for adjusting center shot: Assuming the pulleys are square to the bow, with spring clamp, clamp a shaft to the flat side of the upper pulley/cam, nock an arrow and place on rest. If the rest is centered the shaft and the nocked arrow should be parallel. Repeat with shaft on the lower pulley. To see how the arrow exists my blade rest I'll spray some foot powder - from spray can - on the aft portion of a bare shaft. (if the arrow rides up and to the side of the blade on exit, the arrow will paper tune nock high - when the real problem is an uncentered rest)
This is interesting I’ve never thought of anything like this before I’m going to have to set me up a shop now so I can play around with stuff like this
Well I used this method and it seems to work. The arrows are for my wife’s bow and she’s currently rehabbing an injury so we haven’t tried them out yet.
Liked/Subscribed - I like your common sense methods of tuning. Every bow & arrow combo has to be worked with in order to get ""it"" to shoot great. The way you're getting there appears to work- and that's what matters. I have friends who think they can go buy a $2,000.oo set-up and wala- they've got a top-flight bow that's more accurate than other folks 5 year old bow.
I got the clamp at Harbor Freight and have done this to my last couple dozen arrows and it does make them a lot more consistent. I even did it on some cheap Amazon arrows 300 spine and they shoot great
One of the biggest things I’ve noticed, is, I don’t have flyers. Previously, it seemed like in any dozen arrows, there was always one or two that would never fly with the group, after doing this, I haven’t had that issue. Even with my cheap arrows.
Excellent video, Mat, thanks. Subbed. Just a little point to reinforce what you said at the beginning; you only get out of tuning what you can realistically shoot. A very minor change to your form would help you get even more out of your tuning. I'm sure you already know but you need to finish off your shot. Think of the click of the release aid as the start of the shot, not the end of the shot. Think "click and finish, click and finish". There's still stuff to do after the release aid has done its job. If you don't do it, your subconscious starts to do stuff that's sub-optimal. Keep that direction in your front arm, shoulder low, etc. The danger of shooting paper is that we become outcome-focussed; we're looking for the hole/tear, and thats's not where our mental focus should be; it should be on making the shot. It'll change your tune for sure but long term benefits are worth the short term hassel of retuning. Hope that helps and that I'm not teaching my granny to suck eggs.
awesome, gonna use this for sure, I nock tune my hunting arrows and this looks a lot quicker and has less variables. If you have a local shop that will let you spin test arrows before you buy, you can get match grade quality arrows for less money by picking out the ones that spin true. You can generally hear the difference when one is spinning clean vs wobbling.
I've been using a method similar to this for a while now. I was curious if it really made a big difference so I did the same test you did, except I used a hooter shooter to remove my human error from the test. Your results didn't surprise me at all, since mine were very similar.
I just bought a clamp for this. I'm gonna give it a try. I have a fat stack of bare shafts to fletch. So I'll do this first and shoot em through paper. Thanks for posting this.
If you have a bow press, dont go buy a clamp! You can use the press in the same way. It works great, i just did a batch the other day. I take a center punch and punched spots for the field points in the press
That's what I was gonna say. Started doing this after I watched his last vid, but I just use my press. I've found that all of my elite victory shafts actually flex almost perfectly in line with their spine marks.
I think youll like the heat vanes, i have them on my vaps, rip tkos, and x 27 4 fletch. The rips have a 3deg helical and steer my broadheads great, just simple 3blade g5 montecs, and they are quiet.
@@mat_in_texas if you have gauge to measure straighness of squaring, you will find that its impossible to make it perfect. its simple as that, you cant just make it, what you do here is just not worth anyones time and you spread false info on top of preventing people for not learning proper way for locating spine, tube will allways bend 90 degrees away from spine when hit into rear, but not when you put it on pressure like on clamp, you find weakest spot on arrow, and spine can locate any where from weakest spot
Now, the new arrow brand Altra, makes an arrow with no spine. I am a GT guy also, but if I had k no or already bought some new GT shafts, I would be buying Altra shafts. Same price but looks to be a better arrow. All the top shooters at Vegas and the Lancaster Classic all shoot Altra’s now.
Yeah, I’m hoping to get a chance to try some of those out someday. If they really are what they advertise, it sets a whole new precedent on manufacturing carbon arrows.
static spine is pretty useless to test imo, because not every bow wants to shoot the arrow on the same spine lication for proper flight. Set bow to spec and dead center shoot arrow . Rotate nock and shoot multiple times to see if you can get a bullet hole if you cant then you shim . To the best tear . And repeat the nock tuning process . Once you get a bullet with the bare shaft then back up to 10 yards and micro tune the flight with yoke tuning or whatever other tuning methods you have available on the bow but leave rest in center its okay to move it a few clicks if needed but should still stay in center shot. Once you get bullets. Mark the shaft where you get best flight grab the rest of your arrows and shoot at 10 yards rotate nock till bullet and mark , repeat for the rest and then fletch accordingly.
I agree that the process you described is overall probably the best way to do it. But it requires A LOT of time and requires you to shoot a lot of “perfect” shots. Unfortunately, I think for average archers, such as myself, the process becomes more aggravating than it is beneficial. This test, although maybe not as exact as nock tuning, it is much more efficient and allows us average guys to get just a little bit better than what we would just fling them out there.
@mat_in_texas yes and no . Static spine and dynamic spine are two different things . When a arrow is launched from a bow you are forcing it to flex in a way that it is not meant to flex the front and back of the arrow are never both flexing upward or downward at the same time its actually opposite like this ~ in the air . So finding static spine is cool but it's not going to give a standardized result shaft to shaft in flight. And if you just so happen to tune the bow to the arrow with the most variance and the other arrows are tight, you’ll get those results Not to mention you’re applying forces to that arrow that are not natural. You’re forcing it into an unnatural bend. It will give you false results with this method.
@BergyBowsmith the tendency of the arrow is still going to collapse to the weak side of the spine at shot. Unless you have horrible nock travel this is going to be the case
I agree with you to an extent. I’ve tested this numerous times, and it’s pretty dang consistent. The idea with this is to find a more efficient quicker method to get your stuff shooting better without having to go through the grueling task of Nock tuning. If you just do the Bend test, mark them and fetch them and go shoot them, You might find one arrow that doesn’t fly with the group, and then you can play with that one. But I don’t think it’s worth shooting all of them through paper numerous times.
I wonder if you are better off testing in the horizontal plane and allowing gravity to have an effect as this effect is also present when shooting. The arrow is now being tested in a vertical plane that is different than when the arrow is actually being shot.
I just seen this and tried. I made a tester w a clamp and used victory rip TKO pro, they are spine marked and every one bent exactly at their mark even after cutting them down.
Personally I think you are learning a great deal while going down this path. I don’t actually believe you are becoming a better archer because of this specific process. I believe you are becoming a better archer by the type of repetitions you take when testing the process. It really forces you to find ways to actually measure any and all changes you make. This will inevitably result in finding out what you thought you knew is not the reality of what is actually happening. Try explaining how you got a bullet hole with the flex of the shaft oriented on the vertical plane then rotate the shaft 270 degrees, making the arrow now flex on the horizontal plane, and get the same bullet hole?
The same way you get bullet holes when you’re doing a traditional nock tune. Some arrows will shoot bullet holes in multiple positions. This method correctly identified one of those positions and it proved it could shoot bullet hole repeatedly in that position.
I'm just guessing of course, but I highly doubt gravity has anything to do with it. The force required to bend the arrows pushing from the ends far exceeds the gravitational pull on a 300 grain arrow or so
what about the consideration that horizontal is the arrows purpose to testing should be done in that orientation? when you do shoot them for their purpose they will be horizontal
It may make the points sit off center in the holes in the clamp and make it bend down, but the weight effect on bending is the same no matter the orientation.
Only a few thousands off center on your points and you will create a false center. A true test would need to be a string on the nock and a precision insert (no play) and micro ball socket. It works, thankfully I’ve got a cnc shop at my disposal.
Is that a PITTSBURGH 1/2 In. Pipe Clamp? Only $7?!? If so, I'm sold. How did you center your divots/points for the tips to fit into? Measure straight off of the bar equally on both sides then a bunch of criss crossing lines? 0_o'
I watched your particular method of the indexing and from what I can get, when you test the bow of the arrow shaft ,the outside bow side is the weak side and the stiffer side is the inside or the other side is the strong side,
Nope, it’s not rocket science BUT BUT BUT it apparently works well enough to help get some consistency in arrow flight. One thing for sure “ it ain’t hurting anything “ to try this. 👍👍
In fact, I challenge those who have gone through the traditional nock tune process to now do this and see what you find. My experience was I found all my nock tuned arrows flexed in a similar orientation in relation to the bend.
When you shoot the arrow in your bow it’s horizontal not vertical. I see how gravity could come I to play but it also will do the same when you’re shooting out your bow. Cheers great conversation
Doing it vertically seems to allow me to find the absolute weakest point without any other forces being applied, then when I orient it correctly in the bow, it’s always going to bend the same way.
I tried my victory xv's in a good quality bar clamp, with exactly the same touch points on each face of the clamps and with a insert/field point in each end... stood it vertically, and got all inconsistent results... super bummed... pressure is even and square to the arrow, but when I rotate the arrow, the bend direction doesn't stay at the marked weak spot of the first bend... any ideas?
Maybe something you can try if you got the time to do so. I saw a video someone pulled the nock out of an arrow and shined a flashlight at approximately 45 degree angle and rotated the arrow and the seam where the arrow is joined will show a reflective and a dull non reflective area Identifying the spine. Maybe you can test that along side your method and see how close the results are
So have them bend the scary way? I've never had an arrow break in the bow, but it's always a risk. I think I'll try this but have them bend up and to the left (opposite of the normal archer's paradox) maybe to the 10 -11 o'clock position for maximum clearance. If the point is following the same path (bend of the arrow), then the positioning shouldn't matter as long as it's the same for the set of arrows.
In theory, you can orient them any direction you like. As long as they’re all doing the same thing, they should tune the same. The reason I choose to align them bending down, it allows me to play with point weight and draw weight without having to re-tune the left and right to get it to shoot clean.
@@philipfairweather3493 well, I’m not slamming it together. I take all the slack out before applying pressure to the shaft. Also, I check it in multiple orientations to verify it’s always bending the same direction. In my video “Proving the bend test” I do a full dozen of budget arrows and 11 of 12 shoot bullet holes. It’s quite effective.
How does this act with expensive target arrows like Easton X10 parallel pro or SuperDrive? Usually you can get all kinds of arrows to tune in a compound with a release. People shoot hugely over spined arrows for indoor. I used to shoot 29” 2413 aluminum arrows with a really mild fifty pound round wheel compound. They would make perfect bullet holes through paper and 300 53X on the NFAA 5 spot. Seems like good arrows should bend equally well in all directions. I always have shot Easton arrows and have never had much desire to use anything else. I’m not good enough to need x10s anymore but you won’t see much else in the Olympics or World archery.
@@dwightbrown2808 Honestly, I haven’t tried this on any fat shafts. I’m planning on buying a set for my Elite this fall. When I do, there will definitely be a follow up video
@@mat_in_texas I notice that Easton never makes any mention of any of this. I realize that I’m a hopeless Easton fan boy but at the highest levels of archery where price is no object you won’t find much else. At the Olympics every medal for years and years has been won with Easton X10 arrows and ACE shafts before that and the original aluminum carbon shafts before that. If a shaft has a spine point marked on it that means the company cannot make a shaft that is concentric and even all the way around. I’m not suggesting we all go out and spend $450 on a dozen arrow shafts but your time and sanity is worth something! I’m working with SuperDrive Micros for outdoor shafts right now and I’ll probably use them indoors as well because I’m old and I only have one bow and I don’t care about line cutters. I’m only shooting for myself and because it makes me happy.
🤔 I don’t think this method would work with “Easton X10 Parallel Pro 4mm Shafts”…it might damage them! Other than that, very informative video. 👍 Thanks 😎
You could orient it in either direction. I’ve shot it both ways and haven’t seen any real difference. Other guys that use this technique that shoot off of a blade rest have told me they like to have it bend up so it gives better clearance off of the blade.
Have you filmed arrow clearance in the different spine alignments? I use a fixed blade launcher, so I don't know if flexing down would cause a whole load of extra pressure on the launcher, or if flexing up might cause nick clearance issues
I had someone comment that they orient theirs to flex up coming out of the bow because they shoot it off of a fixed launcher. I shoot off of a fall away, so I haven’t really considered clearance issues for my personal set up.
any advice on bend testing easton axis 5mm shafts? struggling to figure it out, thinking maybe i'll get half outs and just not glue them in, but just slide in and put a field point in and boom, but curious your thoughts or if you've ever done this with glue-in setups? thanks
@@FullBoarOutdoors yes, but make sure you spin your outserts to make sure they are spinning perfectly straight. If they are not, it will throw this test way out of whack.
@@mat_in_texas I drilled a small indent with a 1/8” bit, placed a field tip and insert in the nock end of the arrows and a field tip on the business end of the arrow. The arrows are fletch so it is very easy to determine orientation.
I really wanted this to work for me, please tell me what i'm doing wrong. cut and squared the ends and my arrow bends in a different direction every time. please help!!
I can understand you wanting the flex being down for your compound arrows but how about for crossbow bolts? My little pea brain would most likely want my bend going up upwards because of the crossbow rail. Thoughts.
Hi, great video! But I have some questions: you did the test in vertical position to "eliminate" the gravity influence but, when we shoot, we shoot with the arrow in horizontal position and with gravity influence... Wouldn't the horizontal test be more near the shooting reality? And also, did you find some relevant vantage on the arrows tunned with vertical test in comparison to the ones you tunned with the clamp in horizontal?
When trying to identify the weakest part of the spine, usually it’s not an issue, but on a few arrows, doing it horizontal versus vertically there is a difference. I found that doing it vertically allows me to identify that weak point more accurately so when I oriented it in my bow to shoot horizontally, it flies better and more consistently.
Hi Matt, thank you for this explanation. Do you do this with target arrows too? Also, which equipment would I need to do the same thing you are doing? I'm referring to the other test you do to cut the arrows. I know that for this I need the clamp for this one, but to cut the arrows what should I get, and do you know of an inexpensive option? Thank you.
I haven’t ever had any actual target arrows. I’m getting ready to buy a set for my elite and I plan on going through all this to see if it’s effective on fat shafts too.
So what is your explanation on how you got a bullet hole with the shaft oriented 90 degrees from your mark? Wouldn’t that mean the arrow is now flexing on the horizontal plane?
Okay, now THIS is useful info! I've always found nock tuning to be a bit of a guessing game, especially shooting trad where there are more "user variables". Is there a particular kind of bar clamp you use?
@@mat_in_texas Gotcha! Thanks. So, for kicks I did a "hand test" of 6 of my best, nock-tuned and fletched goldtip Pierce 400 spine arrows using a thimble over the nock and a field point stuck in some dense carpet and manually applied force downwards to attempt an arrow bend. I doubt they were all perfectly vertical at the start but pretty close. Anyway, they all bent about 90 deg outward from the nock alignment in the same direction! I tried to gently force them to bend in another direction to see if I was biasing the system but they all seemed to really want to bend in that one direction. These are my target arrows and they all shoot bullet holes. Anyway, this test is not nearly as scientific as your test but it could give a initial sense of where to start nock tuning in the absence of using equipment. I'm going to try it later on some brand new, bare shafted wooden arrows to see if it holds true as a quick test.
It’s just a bar clamp that is used in carpentry. You can pick them up at just about any hardware store. It doesn’t have to be anything special, just something that will allow you to apply slow pressure to the arrow.
Hey hold up a sec.!!!!!! Other then taking longer by bending arrows, is it not just that you will know which way each Arrow bends..or weakside...Before shooting and twisting?????!! Like, IF...you DONT BEND FIRST and just shoot the shaft......twist 90°........shoot again........Twist 90°.........etc...etc.... Until shooting bullet holes !!........the same dang thing with the same End Results You Want.......rather you bend the shaft or Not?!! Literally, the ONLY THING Different... IS you Know which side is bending compared to where the Nock is facing!! BEFORE you shoot the shaft!!... The Bending is the ONLY thing different!!! You do the exact same thing from first shot on..turn Nick 90° and repeat until you have bullet holes!
@@RakkaSan7219 go watch the next video in the playlist called Proving the Bend Test. The whole idea is to skip the time consuming nock twisting crap. Bend them, mark ‘em, and fletch them. No need to nock tune.
A easy way of determining spine location is simply float your shaft in soapy water. It's 100% accurate and you don't have to do all this silly BS this hack is telling you.
Why more people aren't taking about this? This is the simplest and most genius test anyone could ever do.
@@junixsk8 because they want you to buy the $400 set of arrows. They don’t want you to know that the $60 arrow actually fly real well.
I watched the video, went and bought a clamp, and I'm amazed! All of my arrows are flying better than ever. And my funky fliers are fixed now. Great stuff! Thank you 👍👍
@@stormchildkennelsjasontrac6749 I love hearing success stories!
This is a a test that reflects the actual force applied to the arrow so its alot better than the traditional spine tester.
Promote this concept!
Another thing I do is turn the bare shaft where it tears the worst and tune your bow to bullet hole it, now your bow is tuned for the worst possible direction and shoots the arrows all most anyway if your spine is right. Awesome video
Saw your video and bought a bar clamp set up, drilled pin holes as close to the center of pressure on each clamp as I could. Tested a number of arrows 20 and 21” for my cross bows. I found that the bend in the arrows was consistent and that it was the same no matter the orientation in the clamp, I even swapped arrows end to clamps from one side to the other and bend was the same. I also experimented with rocking the clamp with the socket end and it didn’t change the bend direction of the shaft.
I marked the weak side and fletched the cock feather along that alignment. Haven’t done any extensive flight testing but so far very pleased. I really want to get a camera to watch the arrow flight, I have done this with my iPhone and it’s interesting but the resolution is not good enough to be able to easily see any definite variation of flight. Thanks for your work! Oh and I saw no difference in the bend using the clamp set up in the horizontal and rotating the arrow loosening and retightening the clamp.
After watching your 1st video, this has made a world of difference for me. Thanks for sharing, Brother 😜👍👊🇺🇸
Glad to hear! Thanks for coming back for this one!
Effectively you are spine aligning the arrows. The plus is you are doing it without a 250-350 spine alignment tool. Great video!
Bingo
I watched your earlier bend video and tried it. It does work and from now on I will tune this way. Thanks
Great to hear!
arrows bend 90 degrees away from stiffest point of the shaft when hit into rear, there is no reason what so ever to find weakest point with bend testing, this guy is either utterly mislead or dosnt know better, likely both
Just found you this morning trying to fix some tuning issues. My summer target settup was spot on. Swapping over to a heavier hunting arrow and can not get it in tune. I’ll be stopping at Home Depot for a clamp and hiding in the basement shooting through apart tonight lol.
@@jedhuf7548 go watch my Weak Arrow Spine video too, that might help you out also.
Perfect timing ... Ive been shooting Long range/PRS and have been reloading for quite a few years and anyone that does the same knows the enjoyment of getting the best out of your loads/rifle . Just got back into my archery and knowing the importance a precision load for my rifles ,and how OCD it can be loading , lol , I want to do the same for my bows ( Mathews ) with the arrows , so this time around want to do as much as possible , been looking at the spine testers and came across your vids this morning and its a no brainer , simple , affordable and shows what the arrows will do with the force produced by a bow , not some random spinning on a tool with a weight . Just ordered my clamps will be here tomorrow , looking forward to giving this a try ...
Good luck my friend. Archery can be a deep rabbit hole, but sounds like you already know that
A tip I learned for consistent grip pressure, is to look at the top cam at full draw. If you have good grip pressure the string will be coming straight out of the string track.
😮😮😮 gonna start paying attention to that. Is that why Chris’s Bee always looks up at his cam when he’s shooting?
@@mat_in_texas I believe so.
Thank you so much. This has saved me and my cousin lots of time. We tried paper tuning/nock tuning… our form broke down before we could really get anything accomplished. With this method, we were able to shoot bullet holes, and if not, it’s because the bow was out of spec/tune, or it was out form. But this has definitely simplified our process. Now I can work form in the garage, knowing that if I shoot bullet holes, my form is good. And if I tear, then that’s me. Thanks again!🙌🏼 🏹 🎯
That’s great to hear! This method of tuning has absolutely improved my archery experience
Here's a tip to save paper lol
Put dots across the paper (can number them if you want) move your sight to your 60yd mark,then when shooting through the paper aim at the dot,your arrow will go approximately 1" below the dot 😊
Get lots more tuning from each roll of paper 😉
My new trick - for adjusting center shot: Assuming the pulleys are square to the bow, with spring clamp, clamp a shaft to the flat side of the upper pulley/cam, nock an arrow and place on rest. If the rest is centered the shaft and the nocked arrow should be parallel. Repeat with shaft on the lower pulley.
To see how the arrow exists my blade rest I'll spray some foot powder - from spray can - on the aft portion of a bare shaft. (if the arrow rides up and to the side of the blade on exit, the arrow will paper tune nock high - when the real problem is an uncentered rest)
Oooh, might have to give this a try
This is interesting I’ve never thought of anything like this before I’m going to have to set me up a shop now so I can play around with stuff like this
Well I used this method and it seems to work. The arrows are for my wife’s bow and she’s currently rehabbing an injury so we haven’t tried them out yet.
Liked/Subscribed - I like your common sense methods of tuning.
Every bow & arrow combo has to be worked with in order to get ""it"" to shoot great.
The way you're getting there appears to work- and that's what matters.
I have friends who think they can go buy a $2,000.oo set-up and wala- they've got a top-flight bow that's more accurate than other folks 5 year old bow.
Thanks for the follow. Spending money doesn’t always solve the problem. Gotta put in a little effort.
I got the clamp at Harbor Freight and have done this to my last couple dozen arrows and it does make them a lot more consistent. I even did it on some cheap Amazon arrows 300 spine and they shoot great
One of the biggest things I’ve noticed, is, I don’t have flyers. Previously, it seemed like in any dozen arrows, there was always one or two that would never fly with the group, after doing this, I haven’t had that issue. Even with my cheap arrows.
@@mat_in_texas exactly that, any flyer I know is my fault
What clamp are you using please just here in the UK it looks like a sash joinery clamp
@@derekmurray2416 ya, it’s just a wood clamp
Excellent video, Mat, thanks. Subbed. Just a little point to reinforce what you said at the beginning; you only get out of tuning what you can realistically shoot. A very minor change to your form would help you get even more out of your tuning. I'm sure you already know but you need to finish off your shot. Think of the click of the release aid as the start of the shot, not the end of the shot. Think "click and finish, click and finish". There's still stuff to do after the release aid has done its job. If you don't do it, your subconscious starts to do stuff that's sub-optimal. Keep that direction in your front arm, shoulder low, etc. The danger of shooting paper is that we become outcome-focussed; we're looking for the hole/tear, and thats's not where our mental focus should be; it should be on making the shot. It'll change your tune for sure but long term benefits are worth the short term hassel of retuning. Hope that helps and that I'm not teaching my granny to suck eggs.
Thanks for the tip
Great video Mat. Keep it up!
Thank you. I’ve got a few more lined up
awesome, gonna use this for sure, I nock tune my hunting arrows and this looks a lot quicker and has less variables.
If you have a local shop that will let you spin test arrows before you buy, you can get match grade quality arrows for less money by picking out the ones that spin true. You can generally hear the difference when one is spinning clean vs wobbling.
I've been using a method similar to this for a while now. I was curious if it really made a big difference so I did the same test you did, except I used a hooter shooter to remove my human error from the test. Your results didn't surprise me at all, since mine were very similar.
That’s awesome, you should make a video too. I don’t have access to a hooter shooter or I would 100% use it.
I just bought a clamp for this. I'm gonna give it a try. I have a fat stack of bare shafts to fletch. So I'll do this first and shoot em through paper.
Thanks for posting this.
@@slvice14 I hope it work well for you. It saves me a ton of time!
Gonna use this when making my next set of arrows.
You won’t be disappointed
If you have a bow press, dont go buy a clamp! You can use the press in the same way. It works great, i just did a batch the other day.
I take a center punch and punched spots for the field points in the press
Yup, a bow press would work just fine! (I need a bow press)
That's what I was gonna say. Started doing this after I watched his last vid, but I just use my press. I've found that all of my elite victory shafts actually flex almost perfectly in line with their spine marks.
Agreed, I use my lca deluxe vertically to do an initial test before the arrow goes to the spine tester for fine tuning.
Your grip pressure comments is very important
I learned that the hard way…
Ok, I bought A new bar clamp so I am planning on testing the bend test again.
Good luck!
I think youll like the heat vanes, i have them on my vaps, rip tkos, and x 27 4 fletch. The rips have a 3deg helical and steer my broadheads great, just simple 3blade g5 montecs, and they are quiet.
Got ‘em glued on and putting them to work. Seem to be doing just fine.
Just make sure your shaft ends are square. If your cutoff saw cut at a slight angle it will effect the flex
Squaring tools are a must!
@@mat_in_texas its impossible to square an arrow perfectly, hence this method is flawed (not to mention the fact that you cant find spine with this)
@@flyfin108 why is it impossible to square an arrow?
@@mat_in_texas why does apple fall of the tree
@@mat_in_texas if you have gauge to measure straighness of squaring, you will find that its impossible to make it perfect. its simple as that, you cant just make it, what you do here is just not worth anyones time and you spread false info on top of preventing people for not learning proper way for locating spine, tube will allways bend 90 degrees away from spine when hit into rear, but not when you put it on pressure like on clamp, you find weakest spot on arrow, and spine can locate any where from weakest spot
Now, the new arrow brand Altra, makes an arrow with no spine. I am a GT guy also, but if I had k no or already bought some new GT shafts, I would be buying Altra shafts. Same price but looks to be a better arrow. All the top shooters at Vegas and the Lancaster Classic all shoot Altra’s now.
Yeah, I’m hoping to get a chance to try some of those out someday. If they really are what they advertise, it sets a whole new precedent on manufacturing carbon arrows.
static spine is pretty useless to test imo, because not every bow wants to shoot the arrow on the same spine lication for proper flight. Set bow to spec and dead center shoot arrow . Rotate nock and shoot multiple times to see if you can get a bullet hole if you cant then you shim . To the best tear . And repeat the nock tuning process . Once you get a bullet with the bare shaft then back up to 10 yards and micro tune the flight with yoke tuning or whatever other tuning methods you have available on the bow but leave rest in center its okay to move it a few clicks if needed but should still stay in center shot. Once you get bullets. Mark the shaft where you get best flight grab the rest of your arrows and shoot at 10 yards rotate nock till bullet and mark , repeat for the rest and then fletch accordingly.
I agree that the process you described is overall probably the best way to do it. But it requires A LOT of time and requires you to shoot a lot of “perfect” shots. Unfortunately, I think for average archers, such as myself, the process becomes more aggravating than it is beneficial. This test, although maybe not as exact as nock tuning, it is much more efficient and allows us average guys to get just a little bit better than what we would just fling them out there.
@mat_in_texas yes and no . Static spine and dynamic spine are two different things . When a arrow is launched from a bow you are forcing it to flex in a way that it is not meant to flex the front and back of the arrow are never both flexing upward or downward at the same time its actually opposite like this ~ in the air . So finding static spine is cool but it's not going to give a standardized result shaft to shaft in flight.
And if you just so happen to tune the bow to the arrow with the most variance and the other arrows are tight, you’ll get those results
Not to mention you’re applying forces to that arrow that are not natural. You’re forcing it into an unnatural bend. It will give you false results with this method.
@BergyBowsmith the tendency of the arrow is still going to collapse to the weak side of the spine at shot. Unless you have horrible nock travel this is going to be the case
@jmcb5215 that's not true because arrows flex in 2 parts not all in one direction.
Even if you know where the spine is you still should nock test. The best orientation doesn't always aline perfectly with the spine.
I agree with you to an extent. I’ve tested this numerous times, and it’s pretty dang consistent. The idea with this is to find a more efficient quicker method to get your stuff shooting better without having to go through the grueling task of Nock tuning. If you just do the Bend test, mark them and fetch them and go shoot them, You might find one arrow that doesn’t fly with the group, and then you can play with that one. But I don’t think it’s worth shooting all of them through paper numerous times.
Damn, now I have to go to harbor freight again
Glad I gave you a reason 😂
I wonder if you are better off testing in the horizontal plane and allowing gravity to have an effect as this effect is also present when shooting. The arrow is now being tested in a vertical plane that is different than when the arrow is actually being shot.
I just seen this and tried. I made a tester w a clamp and used victory rip TKO pro, they are spine marked and every one bent exactly at their mark even after cutting them down.
@@keithtompkins1088 that’s cool to hear, my buddies that shoot victory arrows say they usually find a few that don’t match out of each dozen.
@@mat_in_texas even like you said. If 1 is wrong out of every dozen it's still profe enough that it works.
Makes perfect sense, good cheap and uses something I already have …perfect and thanks for posting
Personally I think you are learning a great deal while going down this path. I don’t actually believe you are becoming a better archer because of this specific process. I believe you are becoming a better archer by the type of repetitions you take when testing the process. It really forces you to find ways to actually measure any and all changes you make. This will inevitably result in finding out what you thought you knew is not the reality of what is actually happening.
Try explaining how you got a bullet hole with the flex of the shaft oriented on the vertical plane then rotate the shaft 270 degrees, making the arrow now flex on the horizontal plane, and get the same bullet hole?
The same way you get bullet holes when you’re doing a traditional nock tune. Some arrows will shoot bullet holes in multiple positions. This method correctly identified one of those positions and it proved it could shoot bullet hole repeatedly in that position.
I'm just guessing of course, but I highly doubt gravity has anything to do with it. The force required to bend the arrows pushing from the ends far exceeds the gravitational pull on a 300 grain arrow or so
That was my initial thought, but it seemed to make a difference on the more finicky arrows
what about the consideration that horizontal is the arrows purpose to testing should be done in that orientation? when you do shoot them for their purpose they will be horizontal
It may make the points sit off center in the holes in the clamp and make it bend down, but the weight effect on bending is the same no matter the orientation.
@davidgriffin5935 good point, you don't shoot your bow straight down at the ground.
Only a few thousands off center on your points and you will create a false center. A true test would need to be a string on the nock and a precision insert (no play) and micro ball socket.
It works, thankfully I’ve got a cnc shop at my disposal.
Is that a PITTSBURGH 1/2 In. Pipe Clamp? Only $7?!? If so, I'm sold. How did you center your divots/points for the tips to fit into? Measure straight off of the bar equally on both sides then a bunch of criss crossing lines? 0_o'
I have been thinking about this bend testing, so are you saying, the outward direction is the possible weak side and the inside is the strong side,
@@wayneeden98 correct
Use your bow press instead of pipe clamps. Works great.
Yes, use your press if you have one. Haven’t been able to add that to the workshop yet.
I watched your particular method of the indexing and from what I can get, when you test the bow of the arrow shaft ,the outside bow side is the weak side and the stiffer side is the inside or the other side is the strong side,
Ok, weak side ,strong side, gotta it,
When your testing each bend for knocking and fletching , what side is considered the strong side and weak side
Nope, it’s not rocket science BUT BUT BUT it apparently works well enough to help get some consistency in arrow flight. One thing for sure “ it ain’t hurting anything “ to try this. 👍👍
In fact, I challenge those who have gone through the traditional nock tune process to now do this and see what you find. My experience was I found all my nock tuned arrows flexed in a similar orientation in relation to the bend.
When you shoot the arrow in your bow it’s horizontal not vertical. I see how gravity could come I to play but it also will do the same when you’re shooting out your bow. Cheers great conversation
Doing it vertically seems to allow me to find the absolute weakest point without any other forces being applied, then when I orient it correctly in the bow, it’s always going to bend the same way.
I tried my victory xv's in a good quality bar clamp, with exactly the same touch points on each face of the clamps and with a insert/field point in each end... stood it vertically, and got all inconsistent results... super bummed... pressure is even and square to the arrow, but when I rotate the arrow, the bend direction doesn't stay at the marked weak spot of the first bend... any ideas?
Maybe something you can try if you got the time to do so. I saw a video someone pulled the nock out of an arrow and shined a flashlight at approximately 45 degree angle and rotated the arrow and the seam where the arrow is joined will show a reflective and a dull non reflective area Identifying the spine. Maybe you can test that along side your method and see how close the results are
I’ll take a look
So have them bend the scary way? I've never had an arrow break in the bow, but it's always a risk.
I think I'll try this but have them bend up and to the left (opposite of the normal archer's paradox) maybe to the 10 -11 o'clock position for maximum clearance.
If the point is following the same path (bend of the arrow), then the positioning shouldn't matter as long as it's the same for the set of arrows.
In theory, you can orient them any direction you like. As long as they’re all doing the same thing, they should tune the same. The reason I choose to align them bending down, it allows me to play with point weight and draw weight without having to re-tune the left and right to get it to shoot clean.
I have done this using my last chance archery press and have not seen the consistency I expected and I also did try this vertically.. Dunno..
What arrows are you currently shooting?
@@mat_in_texas RIP TKO in 250 spine
@@kylemacdonell1450I did it on RIP TKO's in a 250 spine with great results.
The slop in the pipe clamp screw is so sloppy,I don't see how you can get an accurate hypothsis.you need to try that idea on a precision metal lathe.
@@philipfairweather3493 well, I’m not slamming it together. I take all the slack out before applying pressure to the shaft. Also, I check it in multiple orientations to verify it’s always bending the same direction. In my video “Proving the bend test” I do a full dozen of budget arrows and 11 of 12 shoot bullet holes. It’s quite effective.
How does this act with expensive target arrows like Easton X10 parallel pro or SuperDrive? Usually you can get all kinds of arrows to tune in a compound with a release. People shoot hugely over spined arrows for indoor. I used to shoot 29” 2413 aluminum arrows with a really mild fifty pound round wheel compound. They would make perfect bullet holes through paper and 300 53X on the NFAA 5 spot. Seems like good arrows should bend equally well in all directions. I always have shot Easton arrows and have never had much desire to use anything else. I’m not good enough to need x10s anymore but you won’t see much else in the Olympics or World archery.
@@dwightbrown2808 Honestly, I haven’t tried this on any fat shafts. I’m planning on buying a set for my Elite this fall. When I do, there will definitely be a follow up video
@@mat_in_texas
I notice that Easton never makes any mention of any of this. I realize that I’m a hopeless Easton fan boy but at the highest levels of archery where price is no object you won’t find much else. At the Olympics every medal for years and years has been won with Easton X10 arrows and ACE shafts before that and the original aluminum carbon shafts before that. If a shaft has a spine point marked on it that means the company cannot make a shaft that is concentric and even all the way around. I’m not suggesting we all go out and spend $450 on a dozen arrow shafts but your time and sanity is worth something! I’m working with SuperDrive Micros for outdoor shafts right now and I’ll probably use them indoors as well because I’m old and I only have one bow and I don’t care about line cutters. I’m only shooting for myself and because it makes me happy.
Can I bend test a 20 inch cross bow bolt
@@DanielGentry-z4f you could definitely try, being that short, you may not be able to get a consistent reading.
I like my Victory arrows that come spine aligned from the factory. It makes a difference, & I wouldn't buy or shoot anything else.
I want to try some Victory arrows. I’ve never shot them
🤔 I don’t think this method would work with “Easton X10 Parallel Pro 4mm Shafts”…it might damage them!
Other than that, very informative video. 👍
Thanks 😎
Ya, this probably wouldn’t be good on an aluminum shaft.
That is interesting. Anyone try this with a recurve or a long bow?
Can anyone help David out? Anyone tried this on trad equipment?
It works for trad bows too. Orient the weak side towards the bow and then go through the your normal tuning process.
Thanks, will try that
Will this work if the arrows have a point insert glued into it ?
Oh ya, just screw in a field point and you’re in business
@@mat_in_texas thank you.I subscribed
Great video!
Why do you want the arrow to bend down and not up when released from the bow?
You could orient it in either direction. I’ve shot it both ways and haven’t seen any real difference. Other guys that use this technique that shoot off of a blade rest have told me they like to have it bend up so it gives better clearance off of the blade.
Have you filmed arrow clearance in the different spine alignments?
I use a fixed blade launcher, so I don't know if flexing down would cause a whole load of extra pressure on the launcher, or if flexing up might cause nick clearance issues
I had someone comment that they orient theirs to flex up coming out of the bow because they shoot it off of a fixed launcher. I shoot off of a fall away, so I haven’t really considered clearance issues for my personal set up.
any advice on bend testing easton axis 5mm shafts? struggling to figure it out, thinking maybe i'll get half outs and just not glue them in, but just slide in and put a field point in and boom, but curious your thoughts or if you've ever done this with glue-in setups? thanks
@@greenem23 never have, I’d love to hear how you make it happen.
Would this work the same with outserts?
@@FullBoarOutdoors yes, but make sure you spin your outserts to make sure they are spinning perfectly straight. If they are not, it will throw this test way out of whack.
Tried this test but found my arrows bent the same direction every time. GT 300 spine XT Hunter.
That’s what I shoot out of my hunting bow too. Great arrow. What are you using to press the arrows?
In case it was not clear it did not matter on the arrow orientation, the arrows always bent away from the bar clamp pipe.
@@mat_in_texas Bar clamp
@@mat_in_texas
I drilled a small indent with a 1/8” bit, placed a field tip and insert in the nock end of the arrows and a field tip on the business end of the arrow. The arrows are fletch so it is very easy to determine orientation.
@@mat_in_texas I also hung the bar clamp vertically.
I really wanted this to work for me, please tell me what i'm doing wrong. cut and squared the ends and my arrow bends in a different direction every time. please help!!
what are you using for a clamp?
@@mat_in_texas I went out and bought a new pipe clamp.
I can understand you wanting the flex being down for your compound arrows but how about for crossbow bolts? My little pea brain would most likely want my bend going up upwards because of the crossbow rail. Thoughts.
I have zero experience with cross bows, but I would think you have the right idea.
Hi, great video! But I have some questions: you did the test in vertical position to "eliminate" the gravity influence but, when we shoot, we shoot with the arrow in horizontal position and with gravity influence... Wouldn't the horizontal test be more near the shooting reality?
And also, did you find some relevant vantage on the arrows tunned with vertical test in comparison to the ones you tunned with the clamp in horizontal?
When trying to identify the weakest part of the spine, usually it’s not an issue, but on a few arrows, doing it horizontal versus vertically there is a difference. I found that doing it vertically allows me to identify that weak point more accurately so when I oriented it in my bow to shoot horizontally, it flies better and more consistently.
@@mat_in_texas Makes sense... Thank you for the replay!
nice
Hi Matt, thank you for this explanation. Do you do this with target arrows too? Also, which equipment would I need to do the same thing you are doing? I'm referring to the other test you do to cut the arrows. I know that for this I need the clamp for this one, but to cut the arrows what should I get, and do you know of an inexpensive option?
Thank you.
I recently bought a MODSAW. It’s about the best bang for your buck out there. I just posted a couple videos about them too
I haven’t ever had any actual target arrows. I’m getting ready to buy a set for my elite and I plan on going through all this to see if it’s effective on fat shafts too.
So what is your explanation on how you got a bullet hole with the shaft oriented 90 degrees from your mark? Wouldn’t that mean the arrow is now flexing on the horizontal plane?
You could probably shoot it at either orientation and it would probably fly fine. Either way, it’s a bullet hole.
I like the idea. But what if the ends of the arrow are not square? Would that affect the way it bends?
Ya, gotta be square
Just get a spine tester and rotate the shaft
$30 bar clamp is way cheaper
so you have "little" BS marked on your arrow?
To remind me it’s the designated Bare Shaft so I don’t fletch it
@@mat_in_texas so you deleted my comments where i showd exactly why this entire process is absolute BS and waste of time
@@flyfin108 Sorry buddy, but I didn’t delete anything and I don’t show any pending comments from you.
Okay, now THIS is useful info! I've always found nock tuning to be a bit of a guessing game, especially shooting trad where there are more "user variables". Is there a particular kind of bar clamp you use?
Mine is just a bar clamp from Home Depot. But any clamp that will allow you to put a slow controlled squeeze on the arrows should do the trick.
@@mat_in_texas Gotcha! Thanks. So, for kicks I did a "hand test" of 6 of my best, nock-tuned and fletched goldtip Pierce 400 spine arrows using a thimble over the nock and a field point stuck in some dense carpet and manually applied force downwards to attempt an arrow bend. I doubt they were all perfectly vertical at the start but pretty close. Anyway, they all bent about 90 deg outward from the nock alignment in the same direction! I tried to gently force them to bend in another direction to see if I was biasing the system but they all seemed to really want to bend in that one direction. These are my target arrows and they all shoot bullet holes. Anyway, this test is not nearly as scientific as your test but it could give a initial sense of where to start nock tuning in the absence of using equipment. I'm going to try it later on some brand new, bare shafted wooden arrows to see if it holds true as a quick test.
Where can I get the bender you have?
It’s just a bar clamp that is used in carpentry. You can pick them up at just about any hardware store. It doesn’t have to be anything special, just something that will allow you to apply slow pressure to the arrow.
@@mat_in_texas thanx a lot
What did you do to make your pin holes?
Small drill bit. Note: they need to be centered as best as possible
Did you square the ends before doing this?
Yes, 100% necessary.
@@mat_in_texas lol ok I figured you did I was just checking
Hey hold up a sec.!!!!!!
Other then taking longer by bending arrows, is it not just that you will know which way each Arrow bends..or weakside...Before shooting and twisting?????!!
Like, IF...you DONT BEND FIRST and just shoot the shaft......twist 90°........shoot again........Twist 90°.........etc...etc.... Until shooting bullet holes !!........the same dang thing with the same End Results You Want.......rather you bend the shaft or Not?!!
Literally, the ONLY THING Different... IS you Know which side is bending compared to where the Nock is facing!! BEFORE you shoot the shaft!!...
The Bending is the ONLY thing different!!! You do the exact same thing from first shot on..turn Nick 90° and repeat until you have bullet holes!
@@RakkaSan7219 go watch the next video in the playlist called Proving the Bend Test. The whole idea is to skip the time consuming nock twisting crap. Bend them, mark ‘em, and fletch them. No need to nock tune.
Your just spine indexing its not rocket science its arrow science
😂 and momma said I’d never amount to anything and here I am being a scientist!
Pure genius. Very clever sir. Sub incoming
Wow thanks, your genius remark helped a lot.
Works very well!!!! Good video explained well!!
@@kennylainhart7148 thanks
What kind of pipe did you use?
This is the 48” one from Home Depot that was in the bin next to the clamps (the clamps are sold separately from the bar)
Is it a steel pipe or pvc pipe
@@DiabeticBowhunter metal
Does this apply to Barebow and Recurve?
I’m guessing you could apply the same principles and get similar results.
Thank you for the reply, Matt.
A easy way of determining spine location is simply float your shaft in soapy water. It's 100% accurate and you don't have to do all this silly BS this hack is telling you.
Trump2024
Thank you
You're welcome