My Grandpa left me a book. The book of rifles, by W. H. B. and Joseph Smith. In the Great Britain section, Quote, "At this point the reader should be developing some pity for the poor British Ordnance Supply Officer of this period! Many of these weapons which are already conversions of conversions were again converted in 1915!" I've always remember the day Grandpa read that to me!
They actually stayed in use right into the First World War. Volunteer battalions raised from August through December 1914 were issued with thousands of Lee-Metfords held in reserve stores for training and home use. Reason : over 1.2m men had come forward, and SMLE Mk IIIs production wouldn't be up to speed with demand until the Mk III* in 1915. All variants of the older Lee-Metfords and the MLE Mk1 ("Long Tom") were referred to by the Army and volunteer recruits as "Long Lees". You see them regularly in contemporary home front photos of the "Pals" and "Kitchener" volunteer battalions ; for example, the honour guard from the 18th Battalion Durham Light Infantry firing a volley over the grave of Theophilus Jones, who was killed during the German naval Bombardment of the Hartlepools on 16th December 1914.
Yes, Long Lees were still in use on the Somme in summer 1916. Anecdotal evidence says that many of the Territorial and Kitchener battalions held onto the long rifles by choice.
What I got from the net is it's a good, solid Irish name given to at least four (4) other individuals of historical note, A soldier, sailor ( Royal Navy Officer ), historian, and an MP. Haven't found any cooks, bakers, or candle stick makers...yet.
Theophilus Jones (I originally misspelt his forename with an I) was a school master from West Hartlepool who has the sad distinction of being identified as the "first soldier to be killed on British soil by enemy action" during the First World War. He most probably wasn't, but the story was spread by a local vicar. Theo to his friends, he was a keen county cricketer and choir master. Both his older and younger brothers were also later killed in action during 1917. I bought his prayer book, pierced through the front with a shell fragment which stayed lodged within the pages, at auction back in 2017 on behalf of the public Museum of Hartlepool. www.hartlepool.gov.uk/news/article/1017/jones_brothers_war_collection_coming_home_to_hartlepool Painting behind the Councillor is James Clark's 1915 work "The Bombardment of the Hartlepools", artuk.org/discover/artworks/the-bombardment-of-the-hartlepools-16-december-1914-57030/view_as/grid/search/keyword:hartlepools/page/1
I suspect that the British small arms nomenclature system was actually a counter espionage coup. Foreign intelligence agents and analysts would waste countless hours and limitless resources trying to decode a designation that actually meant: "We changed to a countersunk screw".
Of course the American system was BETTER ah,, The M1 the m1a the M1a1 for every thing from socks to tactical nuclear weapons so the enemy didnt know what was being used on them ,,, oh it must be the M1......... their using today!!!!
With that frequency of iteration, the back-porting of new features, and the constant change requests from big clients, these guys would be right at home with modern software development methodologies!
Something about this reminds me of the wedding scene from Goodfellas. “Paulie and his brothers had lots of sons and nephews. And almost all of them were named Peter or Paul. It was unbelievable. There must have been two dozen Peters and Pauls at the wedding. Plus, they were all married to girls named Marie. And they named all their daughters Marie.”
I had the pleasure of firing a Mk IV at RAF Catterick in my Air Training Corps (ATC) days, I was 14 and a short arse, I'd heard all of the "break your shoulder" horror stories, loaded ten rounds and prepared for hospital...it wasn't that bad and I enjoyed it, the only complaint was me having to crawl back up the mat after a couple of rounds...
Sean Joseph 10 rounds?? I can’t remember having more than 3 issued , your squadron must have had some really good contacts to be able to let everyone have that amount of ammo to play with.
The first rifle I ever fired, at the age of 18, was a Lee Enfield Mark III that had been recently restored to firing condition. That's how I got into reenacting. I did that for five years, and in that time this channel was referenced to me. I started watching back then, and now everything comes full circle.
Lee Enfield/metford Rifles (including SMLE's) are, to me, the most iconic of rifles. its the rifle of a global empire. A true, global weapon of history. That, and to me they just look good. to me its the quintessential image of the period rifle (mostly the SMLEs).
Suppose the next one would be the fal, or ak47, then the AR system. Seriously, every country must have their own version of those designs sonewhere, and most used em for their military's
@@JoeWalker98 But dude, he said : "Its the rifle of a global empire". All of the guns you listed are far-reaching, and in the case of the AK or the AR, perhaps will be the most enduring. None of those were arms of one TRULY global Empire. (BTW, I'm American, So there's no "home field rooting".)
@@jamesslick4790 America was just as much an Empire as the rest it just preferred not to call itself such. Since the Colonial Rebellion to the 2nd World War the Original 13 Colonies of the USA conquered numerous indigenous nations plus the Kingdom of Hawaii and captured the Philippines and other territories off the Spanish and others.
@@IceWolfLoki Well, whether or not we agree on what an "empire" is (or was). It doesn't take away the FACT that the British Empire was THE dominant empire of the 18th,19th and 20th centuries. The US is a lousy "empire" by comparison, OK, we got a few islands in the Caribbean and the Pacific, We "gave up" most of "our" conquests. The British had every area of the fucking planet at one point, and quite recently! Hell, Modern FIRST WORLD counties that many people consider "sovereign" (Australia, Canada) are under the British Crown. Name a US equivalent.
One change you've missed is the way the dust cover was attached, in the metford mk I/I* its screwed on, from the mk II onwards its retained using itself as it's own spring (and a bit of a pain to shift according to one britishmuzzleloaders video)
This development-history is like the firearm equivalent to writing an essay in Word, only you stopped and hit Save As after every one or two sentences you wrote.
You missed the change to the dust cover and bolt head between LM Mk1 and LM Mk2. Long Lee Enfields and Lee Metfords were still being built for commercial sale as late as the 1930s. They were especially popular with target shooters. You could order the rifle in any configuration, so you do in fact get things like a charger-loading Long Lee with a Metford barrel - because some target shooters preferred that barrel.
As we go through the British rifles of the early 1900s, I'd love a deep dive on the history/design of the P14/M1917 Enfield. And not JUST because I lost a really nice one at a farm auction yesterday, I swear...
Ian, thanks for all the information. Managed to bring back a MLE Mk1 from Afghanistan. Lots of strange old stuff over there. Saw a very nice MLE Mk1* dated 1902 and have seen a Mk1* with experimental cartridge guide on it. You did a earlier review of that years ago.
The MK1* 1897 is one of my rifles I could not really understand the history behind because of the many different theories behind all of these markings. Now I do have the real story behind it, thanks for all the helpful information.
The finger grooves on the hand guard were omitted when the Lee Metford Mark II was introduced. (likely to reduce cost) Check out @britishmuzzleloaders video on the comparison ua-cam.com/video/BXKOciSsO60/v-deo.html
This is the video I've been waiting for all my life but just didn't know it yet. When I was 10 my grandfather passed away and left me an old rifle. The story was that it was brought home from the Boer war by my great grandfather and had presumably been used against pests etc around the farm for a while . By the time it got to me it was missing a magazine and all gunked up with the parts hardly moving. As a kid I thought it would be fun to one day clean it up and get it working but I moved to the US and it got left behind and my parents got rid of it at some point. So that's a shame but I never actually knew what kind of rifle it was. Since it had 1901 on the butt plate I know figure it was a Lee Enfield Mark 1* that you showed on the video. It was great to hear a bit of history and see what these rifles look like when they are cleaned up and in working order, thanks!
IAN thank you for these videos. We had a bad hurricane here in Pensacola Florida. Looking at 3 weeks no power. Fuel, food and water are all very hard to get. These videos are keeping me sane. THANK YOU Ps. My gun collection is safe and ammo is dry. I live on 5.5 acres so I've been doing a lot of shooting.
. I have learn a lot about firearms watching your videos. Now when I watch war, Westerns and crime movies from the past , I basically know what the firearms are and sometimes there using the wrong firearms that were not made at that point of time in history or they got it right. Thanks for the education Ian. I own a .303 Lee-Enfield No.1 Mk III made in 1917 in Australia. It's in good shape and kick's like an Arizona Mule. I live in Buckeye. Thanks again.
The bottom gun is identical to a rifle i used to play with as a child my grandmother had one from the first World War also she had a target martini Henry. 22 with a diopter sight
Hi, Ian. These old beauties had a lot of grace. Long barrels and flowing woodworks. They are similar to what I consider a sporting rifle. Probably not so maneuverable in the wood when after a deer as a Sportster, but the range is important even in a Sportster. The long radius of the sights probably made accuracy easier to obtain. Thanks for sharing! Stay healthy!
It's mindblowing that these rifles are so old. When they were made, Queen Victoria was still ruling, the British ruled a large chunk of the globe and wars were fought completely differently than they are now. Everyone back then is gone, but these pieces of history are still here.
I have a Lee Enfield Con.D IV of the Imperial Camel Corps, it was a Lee Metford Mk II of the 1893 converted in a Lee Enfield Mk III no 1 in 1909. A great rifle that gives satisfactions at the range
Took the Long Lee out to the range today and put a few rounds through it. Shot quite well for a 124 year old rifle, when I am that age I hope I can do as well!
Thanks, that's really useful. My local South Affrican War Memorial has a stature of soldier on it holding a Long Lee - I've previously identified it has a cocking piece safety but now I need to go back and look at the nose cap to see if it has a clearing rod so I can further narrow down the model of rifle he's holding.
"Oh Richard! There's another on of those nasty animals nibbling at my petunias. Get the Louis out would you?" "It's a Lee-Metford, dear." "Oh hush now and get me the Louis."
Great stuff. Bring on the details. Early British magazine rifles in all their variations have always baffled me. Look forward to upcoming vids on the Smelly.
I have purchased Lee Metford that is de-activated. It is a captured weapon that was shortned by the boers. It is missing the safety, magazine and sights. Never knew they were this rare as i thought it was a enfield at 1st.
I have one of the Long Lee Enfield Mk I rifles, made in 1896 and converted to charger loading by Vickers and Son, Maxim in 1909. Matching numbers except the bolt and I assume this happened at the time the conversion was done. Reference I have read states the cleaning rod was discarded during the conversion , but this rifle still has the original rod, so I guess they weren't completely consistant on that. Nice sharp, shiny bore- a neat old rifle. Has opposed double "broad arrow" markings on the receiver and buttstock which I think means it was sold out of service at some point.
Maybe a "clearing rod" I have to pull it out and look at it. Has the correct original type sling on it also. The front sight protector is there as well. Serial # 6084. It is a clearing rod. Took it to the range and shot it today, shoots real well, better than I can hold it.
Thank you Ian for making a clear and understandable video covering this, I have always scratched my head at the Marks and Stars designations. I look forward to the next video on the later Lee-Enfields. Perhaps you could do a video on all of the arsenals around the British Empire that manufactured these rifles.
0:46 I think that applies to the totality for firearms terminology. After hundreds of hours watching this channel's content, I no longer feel confident that i can even define the word "gun".
Aristotle once observed: "The more I learn, the less I know". I can attest this is true; I have now learned so much about so many things in my life that I now know practically nothing about a damn thing anymore.
I recently got a Lee-Enfield Mk I Carbine from 1898 (labeled L.E.C I). Although the Mk I(star) Carbine was shortly mentioned at the end, I wish some details would have been given about the differences between the LE I and the LEC I.
Unconverted LEC I's are themselves pretty scarce; many were converted to NZ or the more widely known Royal Irish Constabulary carbines... in other words Ian could do an entire video just on the different Carbine variants!
A tapered post and a barleycorn or perlkorn are quite different front sights Ian ....it's only the last 25 years that the terms, especially in the US have become interchangeable. The barleycorn IS a tapered post...though sometimes a straight post....with a groove milled into it on each side giving a sight picture appearing like a floating bead....or piece of corn....that is set into...as a sight picture, normally a rear V notch
There is a story that goes with the 2nd Battalion Canadian Mounted Rifles at the time of the second Boer or South African war. While the 1st Batt. was based around a core of Royal Canadian Dragoons, the 2nd Bat was built around a core of North West Mounted Police. When the 2nd Bat sailed for Cape Town in 1900 some of the Lee Enfield Mk. 1 rifles that had come from the NWMP stores were found to be fitted with Lee Metford sights. They had to be refitted either on the voyage or once they arrived I can't remember. Having watched this video, I wonder if these Mountie rifles were actually Lee Metfords that had been rebarreled with Enfield barrels but not had the sights changed. Curious.
A good and interesting video. To say UK military nomenclature is complex seems a little strange from an American where if it isn't an M1 its something similar. Keep up the good work.
I feel like I have a better understanding of the differences between the factory and the pattern nomenclature. I am still fussy on the relationship between the Metford and the Enfield patterns. Was the Metford pattern converted into the Enfield pattern in the end or were Metford and Enfield rifles in service at the same time and converted to later Metford and Enfield patterns that were more or less interchangeable? For complex explanations like the ones in this video, I think you could benefit from using visual illustrations such as a timeline as a supplement to showcasing the rifles. It would be a good way to illustrate how the Lee changed over time.
This was the weapon of choice in the Anglo Boer war (South Africa 1899-1903), the sad thing is that the Boer knew how to use the rifle better than the British. Some of the khakis (British soldiers) didn't correctly estimate the distance of Boer, so the would either over shoot or under shoot. I use to use my late great grandfather's Lee Enfield to hunt with in the bushveld
Great video as always. The previous models and iterations were continually upgraded, but were any Lee Metfords upgraded to Lee Enfield standard with new rifling, or was that a clean sheet that was started?
It’s no more complicated than the more modern system of mod plate really. Most modern military equipment, not small arms, will have a data plate with a part set aside for modifications, or the mod plate. With numbered spaces (it varies from spaces 1-10, 1-12, 1-20 etc.). Every time it goes back for repair or upgrade it is marked on the data plate. So you can have a item with a NATO Stock Number and then mod 1, mod 2 etc.
I have a LE MK1*, that has been modified to CLLE standard, beautiful lady, and a dream to fire using hand loads with cast projectiles approximating .303 mk1 loads!
Hey there Ian! Huge fan from Canada here (name is Mike), I have a great question for you! Question: In 1939 is it true that the German army still used the Gewehr 98 largely with infantry? I heard a rumor that the German army did not have the Kar 98k in larger numbers until the 40's, and with production replacing the outdated rifles, I would imagine it stayed in service throughout the war. But I could be horribly wrong, thanks for reading this if you do, love your videos and this one was another great learning piece!
Speaking as a Brit, I would like to tell you that occurrences of British nomenclature making things more complicated than they need to be are unusual, but that would be a damn lie.
Hey Ian why do you think the Inkuzi is not more widely issued ? In lite of all these programs trying to increase hit probability and lethality it would seem the inkuzi solves both those problems.
There is a curious link between the contesting pronunciations of 'Lewes' and the longevity of the Lee Metford in World War One. Many volunteers were posted to places they would never have been before; most people up until post 1945 rarely travelled very far from home or for very long. These new recruits often found themselves isolated by language! They could not be easily understood nor understand other recruits. They became very unhappy and as a result of sad letters home recruiting fell off (this was before national conscription). So the government (amazingly for the British state!) had the brainwave of forming entire regiments from a finite location. 'Those that join together will serve together' was the promise, overcoming regional differences. So the Pal's Regiments came into being, doubtless equipped with something like one of these rifles in Ian's collection. They died together too and their names are on memorials right across these islands.
Enfield used to make motorcycles as well. Their best one was the Royal Enfield Interceptor Mk II, which could go round corners better than a certain American make of motorbike.
So I have a question maybe someone could answer. I have an smle made in ishapore in 1910. It has a 1 crossed out a 2 crossed out then a 3. I can’t remember whether it was the 1 or 2 that had 2 stars after it, but one of them did I think it was the 2. What changes were made during those updates? What did it start as having and changed through til it reached its final destination?
Big fan of the clearing rod being half length. What happens if you get a stuck case in combat? Were you supposed to just ask your buddy for his real quick?
Not true. If you watch his video specifically on that rifle you'll see that the belt frog for holding the bayonet is the exact same white leather. Could be the rifle was originally an honor guard rifle but its equally possible that just happened to be the color of the leather they used. Not all cows are brown.
I'm basing my comment on how supple and clean the leather looks compared to the other one. But now I really wanna know if it's original. So Ian what do you say?
@@alexsis1778 I wasnt referring to the color. I'm kinda offended you think I believe all cows are white. I'm talking about the condition of the belt compared to the other. The leather is still in great shape if its original.
Oh Goody ! So Ian is going to confuse the hell out of me some more. I have an SMLE .22 rimfire rifle . The only marking is a serial 792, it also has the Metford Mk2* style bolt and saftey. There is a magazine, which is .303 and operable, with magazine cut off but the rifle is now only single shot. Possibly a trials rifle converted in 1907? Most people who have seen it and know what they are talking about agree it was probably a 1903 original manufactuer. Put 100 od drounds through it yeasterday, WE can Shoot again in UK:-) I also have a P14 Winchester build , that has the early style Metford saftey.
I'm pretty sure Ian's covered the .22 conversions of Enfields before. Honestly I'm to lazy to dig for you, but I do remember seeing a video on it, but I can't remember if it was him for sure.
@Superdude70 The old Lee action continued up to the 2000's as a cadet rifle in .22. Mine has no markings except serial number and that is very low, which is why it is to me such an intresting oddity. On the plus side , the rounds still go out the end where I want them to.
@Superdude70 Definitley. My local dealer, the **** is currently dangling an 1896 Winchester carbine under my nose. 1914 date shipped over for British Miltary use, either RFC or RN. Got to get some overtime! ;-)
That sight you mentioned as the Lewes sight should actually be pronounced like the lewis gun , 'lewis ', not lews . You said it was named after the person who inventd it , stargly its the same name as my home town in England . It can be confused with the isle of lewis as they are both pronounced the same
Eh i like the lee-enfield aswell but lets be honest there are very valid resons why so many nations bought mausers and when they didn't buy them they copied them. There is also a reason why the mauser action is still around either completely in quite a few hunting rifles or partially and the lee-enfield isn't. Still like SMLEs but lets not forget that there are reasons the mausers lived on for longer.
Usually when I see this many late Victorian era British rifles there's a Canadian mountain range in the background. Keep up the good work.
You tube gun star references... I like it. Don't forget the uniform kilt
You’re a bloodclart
My Grandpa left me a book. The book of rifles, by W. H. B. and Joseph Smith. In the Great Britain section, Quote, "At this point the reader should be developing some pity for the poor British Ordnance Supply Officer of this period! Many of these weapons which are already conversions of conversions were again converted in 1915!" I've always remember the day Grandpa read that to me!
Reminds me of the Italian Vetterli. Sounds like a great book!
@@PhantomP63 I would recommend for the book for sure. If it was a 1900-1960ish military rifle, it's in the book, listed by country.
Small Arms of the World was prescribed bedtime reading at my house for me and my brother.
They actually stayed in use right into the First World War. Volunteer battalions raised from August through December 1914 were issued with thousands of Lee-Metfords held in reserve stores for training and home use. Reason : over 1.2m men had come forward, and SMLE Mk IIIs production wouldn't be up to speed with demand until the Mk III* in 1915. All variants of the older Lee-Metfords and the MLE Mk1 ("Long Tom") were referred to by the Army and volunteer recruits as "Long Lees". You see them regularly in contemporary home front photos of the "Pals" and "Kitchener" volunteer battalions ; for example, the honour guard from the 18th Battalion Durham Light Infantry firing a volley over the grave of Theophilus Jones, who was killed during the German naval Bombardment of the Hartlepools on 16th December 1914.
Yes, Long Lees were still in use on the Somme in summer 1916. Anecdotal evidence says that many of the Territorial and Kitchener battalions held onto the long rifles by choice.
What kind of name is "Theophilius Jones"
@@Pranzatelli A damn fine one.
What I got from the net is it's a good, solid Irish name given to at least four (4) other individuals of historical note, A soldier, sailor ( Royal Navy Officer ), historian, and an MP.
Haven't found any cooks, bakers, or candle stick makers...yet.
Theophilus Jones (I originally misspelt his forename with an I) was a school master from West Hartlepool who has the sad distinction of being identified as the "first soldier to be killed on British soil by enemy action" during the First World War. He most probably wasn't, but the story was spread by a local vicar. Theo to his friends, he was a keen county cricketer and choir master. Both his older and younger brothers were also later killed in action during 1917. I bought his prayer book, pierced through the front with a shell fragment which stayed lodged within the pages, at auction back in 2017 on behalf of the public Museum of Hartlepool.
www.hartlepool.gov.uk/news/article/1017/jones_brothers_war_collection_coming_home_to_hartlepool
Painting behind the Councillor is James Clark's 1915 work "The Bombardment of the Hartlepools",
artuk.org/discover/artworks/the-bombardment-of-the-hartlepools-16-december-1914-57030/view_as/grid/search/keyword:hartlepools/page/1
I suspect that the British small arms nomenclature system was actually a counter espionage coup. Foreign intelligence agents and analysts would waste countless hours and limitless resources trying to decode a designation that actually meant: "We changed to a countersunk screw".
British Intellecc at it's finest
Hey it worked didn'it? Lmaoo
Of course the American system was BETTER ah,, The M1 the m1a the M1a1 for every thing from socks to tactical nuclear weapons so the enemy didnt know what was being used on them ,,, oh it must be the M1......... their using today!!!!
I am so with you there!😁
With that frequency of iteration, the back-porting of new features, and the constant change requests from big clients, these guys would be right at home with modern software development methodologies!
Something about this reminds me of the wedding scene from Goodfellas. “Paulie and his brothers had lots of sons and nephews. And almost all of them were named Peter or Paul. It was unbelievable. There must have been two dozen Peters and Pauls at the wedding. Plus, they were all married to girls named Marie. And they named all their daughters Marie.”
Maybe that's why US mafioso have such colorful nicknames.
@@mpetersen6 a very large part of it infact. Though depending on ones roll, it can be very nice to separate working you from home you.
Me: I wonder why they didn't like the Lewes sight? ...
Ian: The new sights were also corrected, the range marking were wrong.
Me: That would do it.
64 year old Brit ex firearms dealer, worked through thec70's & 80's with Enfields & delghted to be taught something, thank you !
I had the pleasure of firing a Mk IV at RAF Catterick in my Air Training Corps (ATC) days, I was 14 and a short arse, I'd heard all of the "break your shoulder" horror stories, loaded ten rounds and prepared for hospital...it wasn't that bad and I enjoyed it, the only complaint was me having to crawl back up the mat after a couple of rounds...
@@johnanon6938 : D
My Dad was in the ATC and he said the exact same thing!
These days you'd be lucky to get 10 rounds for the whole squadron...
A No. 4. Sorry.
Sean Joseph 10 rounds?? I can’t remember having more than 3 issued , your squadron must have had some really good contacts to be able to let everyone have that amount of ammo to play with.
The first rifle I ever fired, at the age of 18, was a Lee Enfield Mark III that had been recently restored to firing condition. That's how I got into reenacting. I did that for five years, and in that time this channel was referenced to me. I started watching back then, and now everything comes full circle.
Lee Enfield/metford Rifles (including SMLE's) are, to me, the most iconic of rifles. its the rifle of a global empire. A true, global weapon of history.
That, and to me they just look good. to me its the quintessential image of the period rifle (mostly the SMLEs).
Very true
Suppose the next one would be the fal, or ak47, then the AR system.
Seriously, every country must have their own version of those designs sonewhere, and most used em for their military's
@@JoeWalker98 But dude, he said : "Its the rifle of a global empire". All of the guns you listed are far-reaching, and in the case of the AK or the AR, perhaps will be the most enduring. None of those were arms of one TRULY global Empire. (BTW, I'm American, So there's no "home field rooting".)
@@jamesslick4790 America was just as much an Empire as the rest it just preferred not to call itself such. Since the Colonial Rebellion to the 2nd World War the Original 13 Colonies of the USA conquered numerous indigenous nations plus the Kingdom of Hawaii and captured the Philippines and other territories off the Spanish and others.
@@IceWolfLoki Well, whether or not we agree on what an "empire" is (or was). It doesn't take away the FACT that the British Empire was THE dominant empire of the 18th,19th and 20th centuries. The US is a lousy "empire" by comparison, OK, we got a few islands in the Caribbean and the Pacific, We "gave up" most of "our" conquests. The British had every area of the fucking planet at one point, and quite recently! Hell, Modern FIRST WORLD counties that many people consider "sovereign" (Australia, Canada) are under the British Crown. Name a US equivalent.
SMLE always throws me off, because I always try to read it as "short-magazine Lee-Enfield" when it's actually "short, magazine, Lee-Enfield".
Need some one to make an LMLE by putting an AK magazine on it.
Rifles made in the Indian armoury could be
Short,
Magazine,
Ishapore,
Lee -
Enfield
@@DavidCowie2022 Shortened rifle
Magazine fed
Lee action
Enfield rifling
One change you've missed is the way the dust cover was attached, in the metford mk I/I* its screwed on, from the mk II onwards its retained using itself as it's own spring (and a bit of a pain to shift according to one britishmuzzleloaders video)
Everyone in M1 grand and m1a1 Thompson be like "my grandfather took this at war " but this is what my grandfather carried and died with
This development-history is like the firearm equivalent to writing an essay in Word, only you stopped and hit Save As after every one or two sentences you wrote.
You missed the change to the dust cover and bolt head between LM Mk1 and LM Mk2. Long Lee Enfields and Lee Metfords were still being built for commercial sale as late as the 1930s. They were especially popular with target shooters. You could order the rifle in any configuration, so you do in fact get things like a charger-loading Long Lee with a Metford barrel - because some target shooters preferred that barrel.
As we go through the British rifles of the early 1900s, I'd love a deep dive on the history/design of the P14/M1917 Enfield. And not JUST because I lost a really nice one at a farm auction yesterday, I swear...
British nomenclature confusing? I've never heard of such a thing!
Ian, thanks for all the information. Managed to bring back a MLE Mk1 from Afghanistan. Lots of strange old stuff over there. Saw a very nice MLE Mk1* dated 1902 and have seen a Mk1* with experimental cartridge guide on it. You did a earlier review of that years ago.
The MK1* 1897 is one of my rifles I could not really understand the history behind because of the many different theories behind all of these markings. Now I do have the real story behind it, thanks for all the helpful information.
What about the finger grooves in the wood? Some rifles have them, some don't. Is there any relation to the patterns, or not?
No, it is what was in the armory, got sent out to the field, came back, rebuilt, reissued, etc.
@@johnkelinske1449 LXdKKB
9
The finger grooves on the hand guard were omitted when the Lee Metford Mark II was introduced. (likely to reduce cost)
Check out @britishmuzzleloaders video on the comparison
ua-cam.com/video/BXKOciSsO60/v-deo.html
This is the video I've been waiting for all my life but just didn't know it yet. When I was 10 my grandfather passed away and left me an old rifle. The story was that it was brought home from the Boer war by my great grandfather and had presumably been used against pests etc around the farm for a while . By the time it got to me it was missing a magazine and all gunked up with the parts hardly moving. As a kid I thought it would be fun to one day clean it up and get it working but I moved to the US and it got left behind and my parents got rid of it at some point. So that's a shame but I never actually knew what kind of rifle it was. Since it had 1901 on the butt plate I know figure it was a Lee Enfield Mark 1* that you showed on the video. It was great to hear a bit of history and see what these rifles look like when they are cleaned up and in working order, thanks!
Nostalgic having fired Lee Enfield No.8 and No.4 Mark III whilst in the Air Cadets.
Chud what was the difference between the no.8 and no.4?
IAN thank you for these videos. We had a bad hurricane here in Pensacola Florida. Looking at 3 weeks no power. Fuel, food and water are all very hard to get. These videos are keeping me sane. THANK YOU Ps. My gun collection is safe and ammo is dry. I live on 5.5 acres so I've been doing a lot of shooting.
. I have learn a lot about firearms watching your videos. Now when I watch war, Westerns and crime movies from the past , I basically know what the firearms are and sometimes there using the wrong firearms that were not made at that point of time in history or they got it right. Thanks for the education Ian. I own a .303 Lee-Enfield No.1 Mk III made in 1917 in Australia. It's in good shape and kick's like an Arizona Mule. I live in Buckeye. Thanks again.
Germans: We love the unnecessarily complex!
British: I say, Gerry, have you had a look at our nomenclature system?
Upon hearing that a German device is complex, a Swiss rolls his eyes.
1:26 doorbell, it's the UPS guy with more gats to look over :-)
The bottom gun is identical to a rifle i used to play with as a child my grandmother had one from the first World War also she had a target martini Henry. 22 with a diopter sight
Hi, Ian. These old beauties had a lot of grace. Long barrels and flowing woodworks. They are similar to what I consider a sporting rifle. Probably not so maneuverable in the wood when after a deer as a Sportster, but the range is important even in a Sportster. The long radius of the sights probably made accuracy easier to obtain. Thanks for sharing! Stay healthy!
Its why so many of them were bubbad into sporters.
I check every Sunday morning hoping he put a video out, On this glorious day he has ☺️
It's mindblowing that these rifles are so old. When they were made, Queen Victoria was still ruling, the British ruled a large chunk of the globe and wars were fought completely differently than they are now. Everyone back then is gone, but these pieces of history are still here.
I have a Lee Enfield Con.D IV of the Imperial Camel Corps, it was a Lee Metford Mk II of the 1893 converted in a Lee Enfield Mk III no 1 in 1909. A great rifle that gives satisfactions at the range
So much development in such a short space of time amazing
Took the Long Lee out to the range today and put a few rounds through it. Shot quite well for a 124 year old rifle, when I am that age I hope I can do as well!
Thanks, that's really useful. My local South Affrican War Memorial has a stature of soldier on it holding a Long Lee - I've previously identified it has a cocking piece safety but now I need to go back and look at the nose cap to see if it has a clearing rod so I can further narrow down the model of rifle he's holding.
watching this while sizing .303 British brass. Very fitting.
Funny hiow the moment I start looking for research on the history of bolt-action rifles Ian starts posting...
Remember. You only need mosin. no BOOLET just MOSIN
@@SpeedRunningWarcrimes da, then you have club AND spear
Gun Jesus is watching you! 🤣
Ask and it shall be given to you -Matthew 7:7, disciple if gun jesus
Gun Jesus is watching child he hears you . He sees you
another oustanding presentation, Ian
Awesome vid mate. The timelines to watch are really enjoyable.....
The correct way to pronounce the name Lewes is "bouquet".
Bucket
You're a very silly man and I'm not going to interview you.
The Bucket residence, the lady of the house speaking...😂
"Oh Richard! There's another on of those nasty animals nibbling at my petunias. Get the Louis out would you?" "It's a Lee-Metford, dear." "Oh hush now and get me the Louis."
Hahaha :))
Great stuff. Bring on the details. Early British magazine rifles in all their variations have always baffled me. Look forward to upcoming vids on the Smelly.
Thank you for the lesson today Professor Ian!
I have purchased Lee Metford that is de-activated.
It is a captured weapon that was shortned by the boers.
It is missing the safety, magazine and sights.
Never knew they were this rare as i thought it was a enfield at 1st.
I have one of the Long Lee Enfield Mk I rifles, made in 1896 and converted to charger loading by Vickers and Son, Maxim in 1909. Matching numbers except the bolt and I assume this happened at the time the conversion was done. Reference I have read states the cleaning rod was discarded during the conversion , but this rifle still has the original rod, so I guess they weren't completely consistant on that. Nice sharp, shiny bore- a neat old rifle. Has opposed double "broad arrow" markings on the receiver and buttstock which I think means it was sold out of service at some point.
Maybe a "clearing rod" I have to pull it out and look at it. Has the correct original type sling on it also. The front sight protector is there as well. Serial # 6084. It is a clearing rod. Took it to the range and shot it today, shoots real well, better than I can hold it.
Thank you Ian for making a clear and understandable video covering this, I have always scratched my head at the Marks and Stars designations. I look forward to the next video on the later Lee-Enfields. Perhaps you could do a video on all of the arsenals around the British Empire that manufactured these rifles.
0:46 I think that applies to the totality for firearms terminology. After hundreds of hours watching this channel's content, I no longer feel confident that i can even define the word "gun".
Aristotle once observed: "The more I learn, the less I know". I can attest this is true; I have now learned so much about so many things in my life that I now know practically nothing about a damn thing anymore.
Another great video Ian, though I notice you overlooked the changes in how the dust covers attach through the various model changes :)
You’ve been on fire recently! Great videos
Thank you for sharing that Ian
i use to go shooting here in the UK and I have shot a few Lee Enfields. use to enjoy shooting them. beautiful rifles.
When they made the range increments for the volley sights, was that done with just math, or did they find a way to field test that?
I thought we weren't getting Sunday videos anymore. I hope this means Ian has a lot more content
Very well explained Ian!
My brain hurts...
I recently got a Lee-Enfield Mk I Carbine from 1898 (labeled L.E.C I). Although the Mk I(star) Carbine was shortly mentioned at the end, I wish some details would have been given about the differences between the LE I and the LEC I.
Unconverted LEC I's are themselves pretty scarce; many were converted to NZ or the more widely known Royal Irish Constabulary carbines... in other words Ian could do an entire video just on the different Carbine variants!
A tapered post and a barleycorn or perlkorn are quite different front sights Ian ....it's only the last 25 years that the terms, especially in the US have become interchangeable.
The barleycorn IS a tapered post...though sometimes a straight post....with a groove milled into it on each side giving a sight picture appearing like a floating bead....or piece of corn....that is set into...as a sight picture, normally a rear V notch
I have an SMLE made in 1908. I deer hunt with it every year. Great shooting rifle, even after 112 years. 😁
The bolt cover securing charge is another. We move from screws to clips.
There is a story that goes with the 2nd Battalion Canadian Mounted Rifles at the time of the second Boer or South African war. While the 1st Batt. was based around a core of Royal Canadian Dragoons, the 2nd Bat was built around a core of North West Mounted Police. When the 2nd Bat sailed for Cape Town in 1900 some of the Lee Enfield Mk. 1 rifles that had come from the NWMP stores were found to be fitted with Lee Metford sights. They had to be refitted either on the voyage or once they arrived I can't remember. Having watched this video, I wonder if these Mountie rifles were actually Lee Metfords that had been rebarreled with Enfield barrels but not had the sights changed. Curious.
Great Video! Really appreciate your channel, man! 👍
A good and interesting video.
To say UK military nomenclature is complex seems a little strange from an American where if it isn't an M1 its something similar.
Keep up the good work.
'Have you seen the new M4?' 'Narrow it down a bit mate, are we talking carbines, tanks, helmets, flares, helicopters, rockets, etc?'
@@KenworthW900HG We've made progress from WW2 -- then everything was an M-1: rifle, carbine, submachine gun, helmet...
Brilliant as usual Ian thanks 🙂🇬🇧
Very interesting Ian.
Our family had a Lee Enfield mark 4 under my uncles bed at our family cabin
# dad & Uncle Ww2 vets Europe❤🇨🇦
Boy Othais, you've changed quite a bit. No hat, your beard, you're not as big a person now.
I feel like I have a better understanding of the differences between the factory and the pattern nomenclature. I am still fussy on the relationship between the Metford and the Enfield patterns. Was the Metford pattern converted into the Enfield pattern in the end or were Metford and Enfield rifles in service at the same time and converted to later Metford and Enfield patterns that were more or less interchangeable?
For complex explanations like the ones in this video, I think you could benefit from using visual illustrations such as a timeline as a supplement to showcasing the rifles. It would be a good way to illustrate how the Lee changed over time.
This was the weapon of choice in the Anglo Boer war (South Africa 1899-1903), the sad thing is that the Boer knew how to use the rifle better than the British. Some of the khakis (British soldiers) didn't correctly estimate the distance of Boer, so the would either over shoot or under shoot. I use to use my late great grandfather's Lee Enfield to hunt with in the bushveld
Great video as always. The previous models and iterations were continually upgraded, but were any Lee Metfords upgraded to Lee Enfield standard with new rifling, or was that a clean sheet that was started?
It’s no more complicated than the more modern system of mod plate really. Most modern military equipment, not small arms, will have a data plate with a part set aside for modifications, or the mod plate. With numbered spaces (it varies from spaces 1-10, 1-12, 1-20 etc.). Every time it goes back for repair or upgrade it is marked on the data plate. So you can have a item with a NATO Stock Number and then mod 1, mod 2 etc.
I truly do want a Lee Enfield, And I know that they're hard to come by and expensive
I never realized they had detachable magazines and then they updated them to stripper clips that still kind of a cool idea.
Amazing!! I wish I could get my hand on a L.E 1
8:50 did... did the previous owner bite the stock?
looks like someone was keeping score
Hand to hand combat maybe?
@RocketSurgeon just realized how small those markings are, unless he slammed an unborn child in the face I doubt it now.
I have a LE MK1*, that has been modified to CLLE standard, beautiful lady, and a dream to fire using hand loads with cast projectiles approximating .303 mk1 loads!
A Sunday upload? I’ll take it!
Hey there Ian!
Huge fan from Canada here (name is Mike), I have a great question for you!
Question:
In 1939 is it true that the German army still used the Gewehr 98 largely with infantry?
I heard a rumor that the German army did not have the Kar 98k in larger numbers until the 40's, and with production replacing the outdated rifles, I would imagine it stayed in service throughout the war. But I could be horribly wrong, thanks for reading this if you do, love your videos and this one was another great learning piece!
The Metfords have a hell of a dust cover.
I remember seeing all the surplus rifles as a kid for $60 in the shotgun news. God to have those days back lol.
First 1903 Springfield I owned was $35 back in the mid 1960s.
Speaking as a Brit, I would like to tell you that occurrences of British nomenclature making things more complicated than they need to be are unusual, but that would be a damn lie.
Hey Ian why do you think the Inkuzi is not more widely issued ? In lite of all these programs trying to increase hit probability and lethality it would seem the inkuzi solves both those problems.
There is a curious link between the contesting pronunciations of 'Lewes' and the longevity of the Lee Metford in World War One. Many volunteers were posted to places they would never have been before; most people up until post 1945 rarely travelled very far from home or for very long. These new recruits often found themselves isolated by language! They could not be easily understood nor understand other recruits. They became very unhappy and as a result of sad letters home recruiting fell off (this was before national conscription). So the government (amazingly for the British state!) had the brainwave of forming entire regiments from a finite location. 'Those that join together will serve together' was the promise, overcoming regional differences. So the Pal's Regiments came into being, doubtless equipped with something like one of these rifles in Ian's collection. They died together too and their names are on memorials right across these islands.
There was a Squier vidoe called "why the British have the best tanks in the World" that mentioned Ian
I can only imagine the tragic incident that must have happened,to make them re-install the safety catches.
When I see a Lee Metford I think of Steve1989 eating the 110 year old beef ration.
Enfield used to make motorcycles as well. Their best one was the Royal Enfield Interceptor Mk II, which could go round corners better than a certain American make of motorbike.
Different entities. Royal Enfield Cycle Co Ltd was a private company set up in 1901. RSAF Enfield was a government owned factory set up in 1816.
So I have a question maybe someone could answer. I have an smle made in ishapore in 1910. It has a 1 crossed out a 2 crossed out then a 3. I can’t remember whether it was the 1 or 2 that had 2 stars after it, but one of them did I think it was the 2. What changes were made during those updates? What did it start as having and changed through til it reached its final destination?
Big fan of the clearing rod being half length. What happens if you get a stuck case in combat? Were you supposed to just ask your buddy for his real quick?
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the sling on the mk 1 on the bottom isn't original?
And...?
Not true. If you watch his video specifically on that rifle you'll see that the belt frog for holding the bayonet is the exact same white leather. Could be the rifle was originally an honor guard rifle but its equally possible that just happened to be the color of the leather they used. Not all cows are brown.
I'm basing my comment on how supple and clean the leather looks compared to the other one. But now I really wanna know if it's original. So Ian what do you say?
@@alexsis1778 I wasnt referring to the color. I'm kinda offended you think I believe all cows are white. I'm talking about the condition of the belt compared to the other. The leather is still in great shape if its original.
@@alexsis1778 My thought was blanco.
This may be unrelated,but the Germans retired the G36. The new rifle is an M4 style rifle.
You mean the HK416
Elvin deBoisblanc, no it is the RS556 by Styre.
@@timothymitchell168 Oh, ok.
@@timothymitchell168 Not by Steyr, Hanel I think. Still basically a piston driven version of the M-4.
John Kelinske it is a contender in the new rifle. MK 556 is an opponent too.
Well shoot diddley boot. Am I gonna be tested on this later?
Oh Goody ! So Ian is going to confuse the hell out of me some more. I have an SMLE .22 rimfire rifle . The only marking is a serial 792, it also has the Metford Mk2* style bolt and saftey. There is a magazine, which is .303 and operable, with magazine cut off but the rifle is now only single shot. Possibly a trials rifle converted in 1907? Most people who have seen it and know what they are talking about agree it was probably a 1903 original manufactuer. Put 100 od drounds through it yeasterday, WE can Shoot again in UK:-) I also have a P14 Winchester build , that has the early style Metford saftey.
I'm pretty sure Ian's covered the .22 conversions of Enfields before. Honestly I'm to lazy to dig for you, but I do remember seeing a video on it, but I can't remember if it was him for sure.
@@trifidhm He has, as I mentioned. Be intresting to see what more comes out. So far I've found no other example to compare it to.
@Superdude70 The old Lee action continued up to the 2000's as a cadet rifle in .22. Mine has no markings except serial number and that is very low, which is why it is to me such an intresting oddity. On the plus side , the rounds still go out the end where I want them to.
@Superdude70 If you can work the magazine out let me know! They are fun to shoot though.
@Superdude70 Definitley. My local dealer, the **** is currently dangling an 1896 Winchester carbine under my nose. 1914 date shipped over for British Miltary use, either RFC or RN. Got to get some overtime! ;-)
That sight you mentioned as the Lewes sight should actually be pronounced like the lewis gun , 'lewis ', not lews . You said it was named after the person who inventd it , stargly its the same name as my home town in England . It can be confused with the isle of lewis as they are both pronounced the same
looking ford to the mark3 Australian style lee engfield
The evolution of the finest bolt-action battle rifle of WWI *sigh*
Ian, have you done any co-lab's with thebritishmuzzleloader on the Lee Metford/Enfield???
Liked before watching.
What is the 5 volume set behind your left shoulder?
Nice gun
Ian I have an idea. You should do a video with Matt from demolition ranch
By the way, bollocks to your Mauser's, Lee Enfield, the best bolt action war machine ever.
Eh i like the lee-enfield aswell but lets be honest there are very valid resons why so many nations bought mausers and when they didn't buy them they copied them. There is also a reason why the mauser action is still around either completely in quite a few hunting rifles or partially and the lee-enfield isn't. Still like SMLEs but lets not forget that there are reasons the mausers lived on for longer.
Sean Joseph the British army was in the process of adopting a Mauser action rifle right as ww1 kicked off though.
Cleaning rods!