Mle 1866 Chassepot: Best of the Needle Rifles
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Preorders now open for my book, "Chassepot to FAMAS: French Military Rifles 1866-2016"! Get your copy here:
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The Model 1866 Chassepot was France's first military cartridge-firing rifle. It used a self-contained paper cartridge on the same basic principle as the Prussian 1841 Dreyse rifle, but was a substantial improvement on that system. The Chassepot fired an 11mm bullet at about 1350 fps (410 m/s), which was substantially higher velocity than the Dreyse. It was more accurate and had a substantially longer effective range. The French would produce about 1.5 million Chassepot rifles, most of them before the Franco-Prussian War.
Despite the quality of the Chassepot rifle, that war would go tremendously badly for the French, with hundreds of thousands of men and arms captured by the Prussians and the new German state being declared in the palace of Versailles. In the aftermath, many German cavalry units would adopt Chassepots for their own use, until the Gewehr 71 was available in carbine form. The French would resume Chassepot production briefly after the war, but would soon transition to a new rifle, the metallic cartridge firing Gras.
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I'm surprised Ian managed to keep a video about the Chassepot as short as 23 minutes. An impressive feat of self-restraint, I imagine.
His conciseness is something I wish other channels would learn from. With UA-cam demonetization there's no need for filler video.
Agreed. It's painfully obvious that many UA-camrs stretch their videos as long as possible in order to get more ad revenue. They talk a lot but say very little.
As for demonetization, it's a little too late in the game for a full-on SHUT IT DOWN! mode to accomplish much.
@@ben501st I absolutely agree, it was more of a joke about Ian's Francophile nature and the obvious glee of talking about these rifles.
Lol
I’m here because of Ian’s new playlist
Man, he knows everything about these rifles, he should write a boo.... oh, right. :)
He dont know sh!t about Lowes home depot sliders or Rat traps & fishing line.
@@noneshere are you sure about that
I'd love to see one in use
Great video. The French lost because of tactics and Logistics. They still had the logistical problems in the first World War. They commandeered taxis to get the men to the front.
@@thomasmorgan1433 they didnt even pack maps of france when otto van bismark came knocking
To the neverending "Chassepot vs Dreyse"-discussion, some statistics from the franco-prussian war.
Before the war the prussian estimated that 3 Chassepot were as effective as 5 Dreyse-rifles. And the Chassepot did prove to be superior, BUT -
According to the book "Die deutsche Gewehrfrage mit Berücksichtigung der neusten europäischen Ordonnanzmodelle..." ("the german rifle question in relationship to the newest ordnance modells") by Major Ritter Wilhelm von Plönnies, published 1872, 96% of all german casualties in the war of 1870/71 were caused by "Infantry projectiles", while only 70% of all french battlefield casualties were caused by infantry projectiles. Of the 96% caused by the chassepot cartridge, von Plönnies estimates that 5% were caused by the Mitrailleuse (300 used) and 90% by the Chassepot. On both sides, 2-3% were caused by edged weapons and the rest by artillery (25% german and only 2-3% french).
90% vs 70% sounds very lopsided.
But french battlefield fatalities (killed in action & died of wounds) were about 77.000, while the entire german armies only suffered 28.306 battlefield fatalities. So...
77.000 x 70% = 53.900 killed by Dreyse's (or Werder's)
28.306 x 90% = 25.475 killed by Chassepot's.
28.306 x 5% = 1.415 dead caused by 300 Mitrailleuse's - so this was a very effective weapons.
Overall the author *does not* use this data to defend the Dreyse, quite the contrary. He writes that the overwhelming victory was mainly due to tactics and organisation, and that the Dreyse's shortcommings were ignored for much too long.
Yet it was not like the prussian infantrists were completely helpless.
Here are some interesting casualty statistics from the other prussian wars:
_Danish-german war 1864_
danish casualties: 84% by Dreyse's, 4% by edged wepons, 10% by artillery, 2% unknown.
prussian casualties: 74% by infantry rifles, 20% by artillery, 6% by other weapons.
_austro-prussian war of 1866_
austrian casualties: 90% Dreyse, 4% by edged weapons, 3% unknown, 3% artillery
prussian casualties: 79% by rifles, 16% by artillery, 5,4% by edged weapons
_some other interesting battle statistics_
In the war of 1866 2 Million Dreyse cartridges were shot for 30.000 hits. (66,6 shots per hit).
During the battle of Lundby in 1864 64 prussians killed 88 danes with 750 shots.
Man why are the Germans so vulnerable to artillery
@@taylorday6244 Prussians were on the offensive in all conflicts.
Dreyse had pretty short range for infantry rifle, so even Austrian converted muzzle-loaders Lorenz outranged them in direct combat. Plus they were fragile, unreliable and cartridge design was suboptimal.
@@jakublulek3261 "Plus they were fragile, unreliable and cartridge design was suboptimal." - nonsense
People dont remember that the Dreyse was 25 years old when the chassepot came out...Decades ahead of its time...And the Chassepot was an improvement on an obsolete concept in the age of cartridges just hitting the mainstream...So france wasted alot getting something out just for Metallic cartridges to force them to have to move to the 11mm gras 6 years later...while germany got to retire a 30 year old gun for a new extremely good metallic cartridge firing bolt action, that layed the foundation for the greatest lineup of bolt actions(and pretty much every bolt action, outside the lee Enfield and lebel, berthier, mas-36...)
This is one of the weapons which proves that there very rarely is a true "decisive war-winning weapon" no matter how individually awesome it looks to your own eyes.
see my remarks above totally agree,
rotwang2000 Artillery is the war winning weapon. There’s a reason why Infantry weapons are called “Small arms”.
@@FlakeTillman I think you meant air superiority wins wars not artillery.
@@CThyran In 1871 it was absolutely artillery.
Also, as a counterpoint: Vietnam.
@@browncoat697 Vietnam was only a failure due to politics getting involved. we were absolutely decimating the Vietcong even despite our outdated tactics. Also didn't help that their main base was across a country's border and we weren't allowed to bomb it to kingdom come.
Great video, I really enjoyed. My son came to visit this week and he wanted to learn how to make Chassepot cartridges. We took the Chassepot out yesterday and fired the 18 rounds he had made and all fired :)
That's awesome dude!
Sure would like to see a video
Just curious: how would you compare reloading "modern" white powder calibers to black powder paper cartridges in terms of cost and time invested?
@@Froggmeningreen Cost wise there isn't much difference primer/musket cap, powder, and bullet (I cast my own so it saves $). Time wise the period correct cartridges are time consuming, simpler one piece paper cartridges somewhat less time consuming, I have recently started making mine from plastic straws they are by no means period correct but they are fast and simple to make. It's a combination of reloading along with arts and crafts.
Napoleon III would be proud
"Wow , we really need to get moving and just pick something and adopt it" seems to be the history of much French Defence procurement!
Gun Jesus: "needle rifle"
Covenant: *HEAVY BREATHING*
Yep. Saw "Needle Rifle" and it instantly got my scifi/steampunk imagination all worked up.
Still really cool info and episode. But... you know... Needlers!
Super Glue a bb to a buckshot shell then hit it with a rat trap + fishing line.... Fuq "gun control" come & get it
LOL
Hahaha that gave me a good laugh. I congradulate yyou sir
The fleet that invaded Reach had plenty of those.
The Chassepot became famous in Italy because in 1867 French troops armed with Chassepots easily defeated Garibaldi's volunteers trying to conquer Rome and equipped with obsolete muzzle loading rifles in Mentana
i know i'm late, but no 'and', try 'that were'
Man, I've been watching too much C&Rsenal. When you said there was a disruption in 1870 my brain was expecting to hear "when war were declared."
And the random crozier, the blueberry fed one, picture
@@00jeepxj61 CROOOZIER
How did you upsell me on a 153 year old gun
No kidding. I've wanted a Roth-styer pistol ever since his shooting video of one.
Upsell? You were looking for an older, cheaper, less efficient rifle before this? Also, it's a rifle. Guns are much, much bigger bore....
@@johnqpublic2718 Humor, buddy, humor. Even if you don't have any you should try to understand it.
@@johnqpublic2718 handgun ooh oooh wait... Handrifle so sorry
Yup. Cause it’s great.
The I and O were probably skipped as serial number prefixes due to their resemblance to 1 and 0 (zero). I have seen them skipped on machines we import.
Yes! For example, there are no letter "o" 's on automotive VIN #.
@@talpinsky5054 I know this is two years old and pedantic but the “#” sign is not needed after VIN, as the “N” in “VIN” stands for “number.” So with the “#” you’re saying “Vehicle Identification Number number.”
I was watching this literally while trying to help my dad figure out where this old bayonet came from that he's had like half his life.
It was really hard to read the really flowy script engraved on the blade until I happened to hear Ian say "Manufacture Imperiale", and realized that what was enscribed on the blade was "Mfr Imperiale de Mutzig Janvier 1869"...
And apparently the Mutzig factory was taken over by Germany after 1870 so it could have been one of the last things produced there.
So thanks, Ian. Been watching Forgotten Weapons for years but this is the first time that one of your videos playing in the background was conveniently contextually relevant.
Wait, how did your dad end up with this bayonette?
@@jean-bastienjoly5962 I honestly have no idea. He's had it for a really long time, I think he may even have inherited it himself.
@@jean-bastienjoly5962 Going to say they're fairly commonly sold in Europe as antiques!
J'espère que votre intérêt et votre passion pour les armes de françaises sera reconnu monsieur Ian. Vous faites un énorme service au près de notre pays.
he loves french guns
My name is Antoine, I am French and your pronunciation of 'Antoine Chassepot' was perfect. Merci pour cette vidéo!
The Chap has a nice video on hand-rolling Chassepot paper cartridges.
Channel is BlokeOnTheRange, for anyone not familiar
I was talking with a former colleague about stab detonators before I left my previous job. He mentioned that, while they aren't totally reliable when the pin stabs into the detonator (very similar to the needle fire mechanism here) they tend to function nearly all the time when the pin is withdrawn. Smart of the French to make this part of the manual of arms.
In case anybody cares you can make an obturator by going to your local auto parts store and getting a small hose and cut to needed length. Modern rubber compounds hold up quite well.
I was thinking hole sawing tire tread, so if there is hose in the right dia, that would make it very easy.
Two tap washers did the job for me.
Yep, 3 sink washers. Works great.
Hi Ian, first of all sorry for my English, I´am Argentine. One thing about Chassepot is that rifle is the origin of the Word "sniper" in spanish speaking (but with prussian influence) armies, Like Argentine Army. Here we say "sniper" as "francotirador" or "franco-tirador " from French language "franc-tireur" (free shooter). The superb features of this rifle allow that some Little groups of irregular shooters slow the advance of Prussian Army. Best reggards from Argentine Patagonia
The first combat use of the Chassepot was in 1867 at Mentana, where their exceptional rate of fire and range annihilated Giuseppe Garibaldi's "elan" favorite tactic.
Ironic that after losing the Franco-Prussian War a few years later, the French would obsessively concentrate on Elan or Avant tactics all the way to WW1's beginning.
@@MrReded69 And maybe later, reading De Gaulle gave me the impression he likes (armored) Elan
@@2adamast
Exactement de Gaulle a écrit un livre dans les années trente sur sa vision de l'utilisation des blindés qui a était repris par Hitler les rond de cuire français étaient gâteux Hitler avait reconnu de Gaulle un bon stratège il était trop jeune seul petin reconnaissait de Gaulle comme différant des autres jeunes officiers de Gaulle détestait le président américain qui a voulu écarter de Gaulle au profit de Giraud un général bon a rien à la botte des états-unis qui avait collaboré avec petin de Gaulle a écarté Giraud pour le débarquement de Gaulle a pas était prévenus à très mal pris cette vacheries des américains il c'est vite rendu a la première ville libérée a nommé un maire a repris le contrôle contre l'avis des américains qui avaient préparé plusieurs milliers d'officiers pour occuper la France les états-unis avait frappé une monnaie l'histoire officielle n'est que mensonge les états-unis sont pas venus libérer la France il sont venus tout casser pour prendre le contrôle de la France c'est de Gaulle qui a sauvé la France il a pas laissé faire les américains il avait une grande armée française que personne parle l'armée française a débarqué en Provence à libéré toutes les villes de l'ouest de la France y avait aucun américain les américains une fois débarqué en Normandie sont partis directement vers l'est l'Allemagne c'est l'armée française qui a rejoint les américains notamment le général leclerc avec la 2 db qui a foncé sur Paris pour libérer la capitale les américains voulaient pas il voulait aller directement en Allemagne le général Delattre qui a débarqué en Provence est remonté par l'est à rejoind le général leclerc qui après avoir libéré Strasbourg a foncé en Allemagne jusqu'au nid d'aigle d'Hitler les américains sont venus en 44 une fois que l'armée allemande était bien affaiblie la,résistance a fait un gros travail de sabotage des lignes téléphoniques des lignes de chemin de fer sans quoi le débarquement aurait était impossible c'est pas les américains qui étaient les meilleurs au débarquement il on faillit faire demi-tour les canadiens, anglais , français leur action était parfaitement efficace les américains avaient beaucoup d'étrangers des polonais qui était de très bon combattant je me souvient des dégâts causés par les américains il on tout détruit alors que c'était pas utile jusqu'à tirer des rafales sur des pommiers il on violer une voisine de 18 ans
Les chasseurs américains tiraient sur n'importent quoi même des enfants c'est la vérité mon frère avait 9 ans lorsqu'il entendait un chasseur américain il se jetait dans le fossé au bord de la route je me souvient des ruines je me souvient des dégâts je suis né juste après la guerre en Normandie à saint lo qu'on nommait la capitale des ruines la véritable histoire est pas celle qu'on raconte dans les livres
Il y a eu plus de morts civils que de militaires
Aujourd'hui il y a aucune trace j'ai fait des recherche tout a,était caché discrètement par contre y a des beaux cimetières de guerre qui servent les propagande ma mère me disait les américains c'est un peuple de criminels ça c'est la vérité il on détruit toutes les maisons du village les trois maisons de ma famille rasée en pleine campagne les champs y avait des trous de bombes partout il on déverse des tapis de bombes il on mitrailler une cousine à ma mère qui fuyait les bombardements avec une vache les américains foutre le bordel partout les américains on toujours besoin d'ennemi quand y'en a plus il en refrabrique avec des mensonges comme en Irak en se moments il diabolise poutin qui n'a pas l'intention de vouloir faire la,guerre ni d'envahir c'est des mensonge comme pour l'Irak dans les pays en frontières avec la Russie les états-unis on placé des missiles de croisière c'est pas pour la défense plutôt pour attaquer les états-unis on pas respecté les accords avec les russes il devait pas étendre l'o.t.a.n au frontières russe les états-unis mente en permanence
Il veulent installer le nouvel ordre mondial l'escroquerie covid en fait partie
Sabaton drops their new single about Verdun and now Ian is talking about the Chassepot?
This is a good morning.
That's what I was thinking
The Dreyse rifle was not the sole reason Austria lost the battle of Königgrätz. The rifle (and ammo) had lots of drawbacks that were slightly outweighed by its benefits . The terrain and the lack of organisation in the enemy army was it that really decided that battle.
Okay, I've checked Kickstarter page and as for this moment Ian have to sign 1077 of his books. I almost want to order just a regular copy of the book just to save his arm.
Random factoid: Napoleon III, the Emperor mentioned by Ian, for whom this was produced, died and is buried in England.
His son died whilst an 'Observer', serving as a Staff Officer, with the British Army during the Zulu War and is buried with him at St Michael's Abbey, Farnborough, Hampshire.
Napoleon I and his nephew Napoleon III gave rise to Marx's observation that history repeats itself "the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce."
@@michaelhorning6014 which is ironic because for all of his fault Napoleon III wzs genuilly a better ruler than most french governor
Really the only real letdown was the military disaster
Listening to you talk about something that you're so passionate about is fascinating and very watchable.
I love Ian’s videos, which are usually exhaustive, but don’t believe this little factoid was included about the Chassepot. The fact seems to be that the Chassepot was, at least in later Victorian times, very widely known even in non-military circles as the epitome of military rifles. Best example is that in the original text of the song “I am the Very Model of a Modern Major General” from Gilbert and Sullivan’s “Pirates of Penzance" (1879), the hapless General Stanley extols his ignorance of things military by singing that he can’t tell “a Chassepot rifle from a javelin.” This is now usually changed to “Mauser rifle” for more modern audiences.
Actually the Covenant Type-31 Needle Rifle is the best because of the supercombine capability
They should put more pressure on the magic pixie dust that gently floats the needle to the enemy :7
I remember someone arguing that the superiority of the dreyse wasn't the reason for the defeat of the Austrians, claiming the defeat of the French with their superior rifle as "proof". Of course, the dreyse was game changingly superior to muzzle loaders. The chassepot was superior to the dreyse, but not quite to the same level.
The Chassepot had the ability to absolutley wreck Dreyse armed infantry which it proved repeatedly in 1870, Prussian and other German casulties were quite bad in the early battles. However the Prussian artillery could suppress the French infantry thanks to its breachload Krupp cannon firing contact fused shells and that proved decisive.
@@Vonstab The Chassepot outranged the Dreyse, was a little faster to operate, and long term reliability was probably better. Where else did the Chassepot outclass the Dreyse?
@@terryreynolds9397 The Chassepot cartridge had better ballistics in addition to the range advantage so more accurate in the right hands. But the long range was the main advantage with Prussian units being suppressed and forced to go to ground at ranges the Dreyse wasn't even sighted for. Successiv assault waves could get closer but only at the cost of a lot of blood unless the Prussian artillery could silence the French fire. To some extent the French wasted their advantage by firing at long range (1500-2000 meters) when possible so the Prussians took less casulties than if the French had held their fire to about 900-1000 meters.
@@Vonstab Thanks!
It wasn't just the Dreyse, even on tactical level. The Prussians had switched to infantry tactics emphasizing rifle fire, and heavily drilled their soldiers in marksmanship. The Austrians had the old-school emphasis on bayonet charges, which no longer worked against the volume of fire Prussians could put out. In Franco-Prussian war, French had better rifles, but didn't have any tactical edge. Interestingly, we can see the importance of combining your wonder weapon with proper doctrine when looking at the French proto-machine gun mitrailleuse. It was a powerful weapon (nicknamed "Hell Machine" by Prussians), but since it had been kept so secret, there was no real understanding on how to properly use it, and consequently it did real damage mostly by chance.
Gun Jesus is the best, most fitting name. Couldn't count sleepless nights I spent on watching his videos. Soothing, tender voice and legit knowledge. Thanks, Ian.
It is the first time I assist a real explainaton of this famous rifle.Indeed the frenchs of that time were very proud of this gun! I am french! Thanks and congratulations!
Great video, Ian. My Civil War veteran great grandfather bought a Chassepot rifle and used it as a hunting rifle. It now hangs above my fireplace. A piece of history and a family heirloom.
Ian that is great advice, never use 150 year old rubbers!:) Wish you all the best on the book, can't wait to see it in it's 8th reprint!! ☮🙃🐱
As a brit, I've grown up in a culture that has made fun of the French and made light of their military achievements. Watching your channel has genuinely been an education and has taught me that the French punched above their weight in small arms development. I had no idea!
As a brit LOL. Brits and French it's a long, very long love and war story. I'm French and so i don't like so much brits ^^ But you brits and us french we are cousins. :)
@@ggousier You are not wrong, brother! There are reasons I lived in France and speak French (if badly, sorry)
@@joetaylor486 Good ! It's very difficult to learn French for a brit. As it's also difficult for a french to speak English ! My accent is terrible ! LOL
You lived in France ok, so do you always think that French people are arrogant ? You can answer to me in French if you want. I promise i will not laugh about you. :)
@@ggousier Tiens ! Je trouve que les Francais sont généralement challoux, mais ceux qui devant du Île de France, je les trouve froids et un peu chiants
@@johnfisk811 Oui l'arrogance est une légende urbaine anglo-saxonne en ce qui concerne le peuple français. Nos dirigeants c'est autre chose. Par exemple Macron est très arrogant. Vive l'UE je ne suis pas trop d'accord mais c'est un autre débat ;). En tous cas pour un Britannique je tiens à vous féliciter pour votre français plus que correct. Je n'ai pas un anglais aussi irréprochable. :)
La singularité française ce n'est pas l'arrogance, c'est notre faculté à être le seul pays au monde à ne pas parler l'anglais ! LOL
Love the content mate, keep up the amazing work
This is an excellent video. Chassepot is really legendary here in France.
If you go to France and see some 1870 battlefields, I advise to see the musée "de la dernière cartouche" where this rifle indeed made a big difference.
I'm a big fan of Emile Zola's Rougon Marquart novels set during the Second Empire and this reminds me of The Debacle, his novel on the Franco-Prussian War and the Commune.
Congrats on your book, you've come a long way from the first time i saw one of your video ( which happens to be the first lebel video you made, yes, the one with the falling baïonnette)
Thanks!
Whenever i visit the Royal Armoury in Leeds, i always make my way over to the Chassepot and Dreyse display. They absolutely fascinate me, beautifully made, i personally prefer the looks on the Dreyse, but fully understand the Chassepot is superior.
Superior in some ways, inferior in other ways.
Love the technology that went into this rifle.
that kickstarter is going amazingly, congratulations Ian
I read it as "cheese pot" and I got hungry
I mean, they ARE French...
Cheese pot with a päté de foie Gras and a lovely bottle of Lebel 1886.
10/10 Would eat.
"Hi guys, today we're going to look at a 1972 Cuvette Defromage."
@@vaclav_fejt Are you buying? If so, I'm in.
I would like to see a "modern incarnation" of this style. Maybe not particularly a needle fire version, but an externally similar design firing something like a .45 Long Colt with a dual locking lug bolt face.
The progression from muzzle to Breach loading seems natural now, but at the time it was a huge leap forward in technology as well as military philosophy and tactics. That it would take time for Metallic Cartridges to catch up, technology wise, is as interesting topic in and of itself.
I've long been fascinated by this time period and the huge leaps forward in Firearm, Cartridge, Ignition Systems and ultimately Propellants in less than a hundred years, is amazing. Towards the end of the period, gave birth to those giants of the firearm Browning, Mauser, Maxim, Luger, and others.
Thank you Ian, seeing a video is much preferable than old B&W photos, as well as seeing basic function and field strips.
The original version of The Major General's Song from Pirates Of Penzance mentions this gun ( "I can tell at sight a Chassepot rifle from a javelin") this line was rewritten once the Mauser became popular.
And once the Chassepot had receded somewhat from "modern" memory. That song has been regularly updated to include more current references...(But I will now sing it in my head with Chassepot replacing mauser!!)
If you enjoyed this video, you'll probably enjoy Sabaton's new video; Fields of Verdun. Lots of forgotten weapons to spot there, including the Hotchkiss Clip fed LMG.
The bolt action is really not superior to other locking systems until the introduction of magazines. On the other hand, magazine rifles only took off because there was already a suitable locking system to exploit their potential. I wonder how firearms would have evolved if Dreyse (and hence the French) would have chosen a different design.
I've been waiting for Ian to cover this rifle. It was mentioned in the excellent BBC Series "Soldiers, a History of Men in Battle". The Episode was "Infantry". If you're a fan of this channel I highly recommend that series. It's all here on youtube.
On a side note, the kickstarter goal has now been reached 10 times over. That's kind of amazing.
At 8:00, you can read on the Cahen Lyon model rifle « Falisse & Trapmann ». It was a Belgian weapon factory in Liege.
Love the daily videos, Ian! Well done, as always!
Why was Prussian artillery more effective?
The Prussians had adopted steel breech loading artillery pieces with contact detonated shells, the French were still using bronze muzzle loading guns with lower range and faulty timed fuses.
Yes, but brass gun has nicer ring to it;-)
And twice the range.
- Wave of the future, Dude. 100 percent breech-loaded
- Hmmm. Well, I still load cartridges manually
I am in Australia; thank you so much for this and every brilliant video that you have produced. I greatly admire your knowledge on firearms.
Thank you for all the hard work love what you are doing never let them close you down so much hard work and dedication we all thank you
Snider-Enfield to SA80 will be nice title for your next book if you planning on one
Finally the chassepot!
I’m so excited to receive my third edition copy of the book this year! Ian’s content is some of the best in world, and now I need a Chassepot…
Crunching some numbers I found on Wikipedia about this rifle, with the listed bullet weight and muzzle velocity this rifle has about the same muzzle energy ft/lbs as an AK47 cartridge but in 11mm instead of 7.62mm!
Nope...more like a 30-06...this is a 386 grain at 1345 ft/s
3.10 times the bullet weight at 1.8 times less velocity than the 7.62×39
Needle fires are NOT obsolete! I could totally run this in a 2gun match and kick everyone's butt!
Aww SHIT! a muzzle-loader 2 gun competition!?
That would be... Actually quite shit to watch. Nevermind.
@@operator8014 there'll be that one guy that shows up with a vest of derringers, so not all shit.
I feel compelled to point out that while certainly an effective firearm, the benefit of technological advancement is shooters can operate as effectively with less practice than on older models. What is meant by 'obsolete' is certainly not 'useless'. I can refer you to InRange for demonstration of the Obsolete not Obsolescent principal. Would still love to see someone with a historical firearm show the whippersnappers what for though.
Charles Soto, Are familiar with the song Paper Planes by M.I.A.? Check this "re-mix" out where they use a muzzle loader for the gun shots. 😅 ua-cam.com/video/XHOXakHMxkc/v-deo.html
Ironically that's what makes the chassepot suck...it was built to be better than a 25 year old gun, 5 years before metallic cartridges took over military rifles, while the Dreyse was good enough, being the best military rifle till the chassepot came out, and whaddya know, the great Mauser 71 came out the next year after the Dreyse and chassepot met in battle...Making the 5 year old chassepot obsolete shit, and being great timing for the germans to replace an old 30 year old gun
As I recall, ~10 rounds caused the needle to glow slightly.
My father had acquired two of them. One in mint original condition, the other was modified.
We fired the latter occasionally.
It seems that the seal is missing. See 13:19. Ours had crumpled ones. They were probably made of inferior coutchouc. Of course, after more than 100 years, it was rock hard.
We used a brass cartridge that was made on the lathe. No problem, because the original cartridge is made of paper. Back then, ~1990s, you could buy them in France.
It wasn't quite legal in Germany ;-). As far as I remember, in Germany legally they were treated like muzzle-loaders i.e., they were free from 18 years. The brass cartridge usage wasn't.
In contrast to the Dreyse, the primer was closer to the rear of the cartridge. As the needle of the Chassepot was shorter, it was less susceptible to overheating.
You can still see collector's guns with bent needles.
Possibly Premature comment I don't know if Ian mentioned it, but Its Worth noting that Bloke on the range has a couple of really great videos on making cartridges for the Chassepot, as well as some shooting with it.
I went to a gun show where I live yesterday and came across one these 1866 Chassepot rifles. Don't remember what the seller wanted for it though.
chassepot is the best needle fire rifle because the cartridge’s percussion cap is basically one millimeter away from being centerfire
I'm currently writing a book that takes place in 1870, with events with the Franco-prussian war. This helps immensely. Thank you.
i Can't wait to get your book
I’m surprised no one mentioned the main advantage of breach loading firearms: you can fire and reload from the prone position. You can’t do that with a muzzle loader. That’s a huge advantage.
I have never heard of needle fire rifles until I watched your videos on this gun, the drysse, and the carcano. Keep up the good work Ian!
First i read chiassepot and "chiasse" in french mean diarrhea, good respect for my ancestors
The "chiasse" was usually on the side of those facing the Chassepots.
Now the standard issue rifle of French Army will be made in Germany, how the wheel of time turns
@Falk M hk 416
@GastonJ globalisation maybe, but the hk416 is made with french steel
They perfected the needlefire principle just in time for metallic cartridge technology to mature and make needlefire redundant.
Snider, Allin Trapdoor, Berdan rifles, Werndl, Rolling Block, all matured in around 1866-67.
the dresye rifle leaked enough at the breech that soldiers would fire it from the hip rather than the shoulder. at the breech chassepot rifle had a better seal
Congratulation on your book!
Went and preordered the book right after watching this video!
This thing is ridiculous in Shogun 2, french riflemen shred absolutely everything
Imagine firing a rifle from the 1860's and getting a hit at 1700 meters (5577 feet).
You would literally be a legend.
We ever gonna see you shoot one of these?
Re: the rubber obturator: you might be able to restore it with the same techniques used to restore rubber rollers in old tape and card handling equipment: you can boil it, or you can use MG Chemicals Rubber Renue on it. Not sure how well this will work on something about 100 years older than I'm used to using it on LOL.
Ian: "So if you know only a little bit about the Franco-Prussian war of 1870 and 1871, what you know is probably that..."
Me: "It sparked the rise of the Paris Commune."
Ian: "... the French lost it pretty badly."
Me: "Close enough."
Thank you ,Ian .
New goal in life is to take a whitetail with one of those
So wish I could get a Collector's Edition on that book. Have to settle for the outstanding writing and construction of the standard version... Oh well, never stop Ian.
Looking forward to your books! Just pledged.
Awesome, thanks!
Thanks for the video!
It would be nice one day to see one in action :)
Bloke on the Range
I gotta know how you got into this I'd love to just mess with guns all day for a living the history is gripping
Hi Ian (if I'm lucky enough for you to see this). A couple months ago I saw a "Repeater Conversion" of a Chassepot on Gunbroker; its only marking was "F. NADAUD". Not my area of interest in buying but it looks right up your ally for weird/forgotten. It looks to be center-fire converted with a tube magazine in its buttstock and the rear sight is actually a slot cut straight through a vertical straight-pull bolt-handle. Oh, and it has a thumb trigger. Don't know if you've gotten to see one before or if its covered in your book, but it is certainly one us regular viewers would love to get a closer look at. Thanks for the great content and I look forward to your book!
A good spot. Everyone and his dog from Kynoch downwards tried selling metallic cartridge conversions for surplus Chassepots. Ganivel and others were offering improved paper cartridges post war.
@@johnfisk811 Really? Never knew that... But I guess it makes sense given the time period when there were a lot of attempts to convert black-powder guns into cartridge guns. Again, French stuff isn't really my area of interest, but crazy Rube Goldberg conversions like that never fail to catch my attention. Thanks for the info!
Can't wait for Gras video
Very cool
14:25
"Here at chassepot, we fire the whole bullet!"
"That's 65% more bullet per bullet"
So the first rifle he showed could have been used in the Franco-Prussian war?
Field test will follow, I hope? Nice presentation. Luckily for you, you had a book with enough information at hand;-)
Not to put people off using a Chassepot. I used to have one and regret selling it but there is a known fault since they went into service. If the needle breaks and the reminder sticks out then the next round can go off out of battery and the recoil forces the bolt handle into the hand with any result from needing minor surgery or complete and lengthy hand rebuilding. In the past troops lost hands and some died. All one needs to do is check that the needle is retracted before chambering the round. We are not at war so the extra few seconds are well spent. I know of a recent incident and there was a book published upon such faults and injuries during the days of Chassepot service. Just a simple tip.
You could have just said "read my book" you didn't so thumbs up. Good video as usual
To be fair, I think most of us are going to anyway.
Super! Congratulations on the book as well!
I can see why someone might mistake it for a javelin.
Needle rifles are very interesting. As are all breech-loading single-shot guns.
I just walked out of a Japanese museum showing the "new empire" had breach loading, rifled barrel rifles with metallic cartridges in 1863. Was this museum wrong?
A french military rifle, of course it is a 20+ minute video.
Rivit, rvit....
Man knows what he likes and KNOWS it well too.
I would find disassembling a 150 year old gun somewhat nerve wracking. Good on ya, Ian!
1700m sights on a black powder rifle? That's over a mile!
Skyler Small if it’s been cleaned recently there’s no reason a black powder rifle won’t be as accurate as a smokeless powder rifle
why, they couldn't hit an elephant at this dist
@@deeznoots6241 are they smooth bore?...
Maybe not an elephant, but they could hit a square. It's also nearly traditional artillery range, if you're good enough to receive, why not give too.
The little problem is that Ian won't be your friend. I'm only kidding, of course.
Thanks Ian, for showing and breaking down such a fine piece of history. It's interesting to see how one innovation can change the world.
This gun predates vulcanization, I bet the rubber was originally white, and due to sulfur in the gun powder, over the years have become vulcanized.
What's vulcanized? Can you please let me know the production of rubber
Patented in 1844, but indeed it could haves self vulcanized with the sulfur or maybe the lead oxides and the heat
Im useing part of my stimulus check to get both books