@@ForgottenWeapons Hell yeah, dude! Money is just the vehicle that carries Gun Jesus, but its Gun Jesus' personable demeanor and wealth of gun knowledge that gets him into armories. Keeo up the good work on Forgotten Weapons, bro.
Kholodovskii is such a fascinating look at a type of guy that still exists today. You know the guy, the guy who has some legitimately decent ideas but overlooks those minor, inconsequential problems like "how would you efficiently manufacture that?" and "how much would that cost?" He just happened to be in the place at the right time that his ideas almost political corrupted their way into production, giving us this wonderful window into this armchair expert redditor of the past
@@SRR-5657 hush now, the only two reasons I’m in the comments are to meme (hence calling the moist nugget the garbage rod) and to spread (hopefully) truthful information (by referencing the various Finnish upgrade packages). Please note minor things like context usually aren’t included by me
Whomever does the closed captioning on these videos (which might be Ian), thank you so much. You do an excellent job in communicating the nuance of Ian. I don't struggle with my hearing, but having grown up with people in the Deaf community, I run subtitles all the time. Yours are particularly good!
Its kind of funny how much this rifle seems like a petty "oh they dont like our rifle then we will over do it this time" sort of thing. Just a conglomeration of just super not very important things yet expensive things thrown on the rifle so that it seems elegant.
@@RedXlV There was an aftermarket ring you could buy which clamps onto the standard Mosin safety that achieves the same effect. I seem to think the price was about $25 so pretty inexpensive.
I was surpriaed that the trigger wasn't on the list of things to carry over into other new rifle models. though perhaps that was because they already had another good trigger system by then, and the old mosin nagant was just really antiquated.
I recently saw three Type 38 Arisaka that were shortened "obrez-style" in the Baltic States at the Royal Belgian Army Museum, seeing as you are taking a look at their collection I hope you can have a look at these, all three were extremely different and seemed fascinating to me
Interesting to see early use of aluminum, before its physical properties were understood. There’s a reason why you don’t make springs from aluminum. I suspect it was more eye candy than anything else.
@@arthurmoore9488 some of the applications were reasonable. But using aluminum for the springs that retain the barrel bands wasn’t. Aluminum bands and steel springs would’ve been more sensible. But aluminum was still very new at the time.
@@ScottKenny1978 I'm vaguely impressed they went to the trouble to figure out how to spring temper aluminum, knowing now as we do that such an exercise is pretty futile.
Frankly, I never suspected Ian could get his hands on one of these. I thought all known existing examples were in Russia, and in current climate I considered it unlikely for Ian to ever be allowed to prowl through a state-owned museum there. A welcome surprise, to be sure.
We always blacked our sights... making them shiny seems... counterintuitive. The wings are usually to protect the sight post, but they seem to short for that. They eventually went with a stamped steel hood. The rear sight would have been cool, if it were an aperture with windage and elevation, as well as range, rather than a notch. In any case, you're issuing them to peasant conscripts, the sight on the M91-30s is more than adequate. I can keep mine within about three or four MOA with it. I never had issue with the bolt handle on mine, nor the trigger. I mean, the stock trigger was never gonna be light, but it is much smoother than what we issue to soldiers today. No, the things that got my attention was the stock pressure barrel bands and the adjustable length stock. Mosins have a stupidly short length of pull for me, and it can make getting a good hold on them tricky.
@@Tomyironmane I probably should have specified the rear sight. The front sight is worse in my opinion than the 1891 sight it was due to replace. I have had to use the shooting bench to get the bolt open on a couple of 91/30's I have owned. More leverage would have been nice at those points.
@@Aliyah_666 The fluted barrel is a ridiculously manpower-intensive way to save weight, though. You remove considerably more metal by simply using a shorter barrel. Which is exactly what the Soviets eventually did with the M91/30, though I think they would've been well-advised cut the barrel down a few inches shorter than they did. 29 inches is still overly long for an infantry rifle. Even the 27-inch barrel the Finns settled on is longer than necessary, but still an improvement.
@@Aliyah_666 they should have gone with aluminum barrel bands and steel springs. Aluminum doesn't work well as a spring, and there's more mass in the barrel bands than the springs.
wonder if the fluting contributed to bursting barrels. While they may have been production Mosin barrels that were proofed, but fluting the barrel I would assume would cause heat stress during the machining.
In my opinion, the fluting was really stupid. Huge increase in cost, very minor weight reduction, significantly weakens the barrel. Just making the barrel a bit thinner, by turning it down a bit on a lathe and leaving it without flutes, would have been cheaper and left you with a strong barrel. But the other thing: when they pushed the bolt face deeper into the breech, they also increased stress on the barrel! Highest pressure in the chamber, lowest pressure at the muzzle, so barrels are thick at the back and thin at the front. By moving the chamber forward by 6mm, they pushed the high pressure region forward, where the barrel was a bit thinner. And then they added flutes! Two different ways to weaken a barrel in one gun.
if correctly machined, you don't heat up the steel to a temperature where its crystaline structure changes, so no changes in hardness and resistance to pressure by doing that. the bigger issue is that these flutes seem to be cut with a sawblade, meaning that you now have sharp corners within the material which create and capture stress present within the material quite a bit.
@@10010110100102Error looking at a report " initial pressure testing of the barrels resulted in ruptures due to poor elastic limits in metallurgy and cross-sectional weaknesses caused by the longitudinal flutes along the outer barrel."
I must say that that is one of the most beautiful mosins ive seen sure it wasn't the greatest in military service but it looks alot better than some people did with mosins in the 90's
The 90's was a bad time for surplus rifles. I live in Norway and in the 90's the Norwegian military decomissioned their captured German Mauser K98s from world war 2 and sold them to civilians for around 50 dollars. People went nuts and did all kinds off crazy things to the rifles to use them for hunting and target shooting. But luckaly there are still many original rifles left, and most people have stopped to modify them as they now realize that the rifles should be kept in original condition.
@@Psykomancer The No.1 Mk 3 SMLE does the same thing to damp barrel vibration. It improves accuracy of second shots in light barrelled rifles dramatically. “Sporterizing” a SMLE ruins its accuracy. They are designed to have two pounds of force applied to the muzzle by the stock. The Mosin was also sighted to be fired with the supplied bayonet at all times.
@@allangibson2408 The Lee rifle isn't exactly a shining example of what to do. The adage of "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" comes to mind.
@Tunkkis The Lee is a battle rifle, not a sniper rifle. It was optimised to be used as a tool not a precision instrument. The 1914 Enfield or the Canadian Ross Mk 3 were much better target rifles but proved less than optimal in actual military service being let down by small magazine capacity and vulnerability to mud.
@@allangibson2408 A battle rifle should be simple, while a precision rifle can afford to be a little more cookies, that much we agree on. That is also why I admonish the Lee, it is an ass-backwards way to approach a solution. Instead of using a thin barrel and a rеtаrdеd clamping system which needs specific spring tension, they could've done as Mauser did and used an ever so slightly heavier stepped barrel. Much simpler, and still plenty accurate for a battle rifle. The snipers can have their ~3 MOA rifles.
Mosins were usually well crafted before WW1 and shortly after the russian revolution when tsarist era mosin parts were still abundant. By WW2 when they were producing new soviet era variants of the mosin they were rushing them out and not really worried about high quality, all they cared was that the Gun went bang when fired, everything else was an afterthought. It's the difference between the quality of a 1920s Thompson vs a WW2 era Thompson
@@Gameprojordan I mean to be fair to the Soviets they were trying to arm millions of conscripts . While fighting off a determined German invasion. The Tsars for the most part were only arming their Cossacks.
@@clothar23 not comparable. Texas is a state within a country, Russia at the time of the ussr was a country within a union of countries. The ussr itself isn't a country, it was more like the EU where it was a coalition of countries under one banner
@@Gameprojordan what I take from it is that: 1)you have admitted that you have no idea what EU is; 2)you have also admitted that you have no idea how USSR worked. What exactly were you trying to achieve with that? Add another bucket of water to retroactively trying to scrub off all the blood and grime from that failed experiment?
I remember seeing an old forum post that was unironically singing praises to the Mosin Nagant, hailing it as better than any rifle at the time, with a list of all the ways it was better. I shit you not, one of the pros was that the rifle had the perfect length and ergonomics to be used as a crutch. That bit of wisdom was liberally used to mock the guy for months afterwards.
i think the only meaningful changes that were amde to this and could actually have been viable for production was the 2 stage trigger ,thumb cutout, longer bolt handle , and bolt hold open. everything else seems like fancy nonsense that would significantly increase the time and expenses needed to make them. plus none of this actually helps fix one of the big problems of the standard infantry mosin being too long .Kholodovskii easily could have just cut down the barrel maybe 6 inches and reduced both the lenght and the weight of the rifle significantly without having to make any other weight reducing measures.
At the time you didn't want to cut the barrel short because the idea of bayonet fighting was very much still a thing in military circles. And the Russo-Japanese War saw a lot of bayonet fighting just previously.
I hate to be that guy, but it looks like Ian missed something about the rear sight. If you look at 6:51, you can see that the battle sight has a hinge to it and that there appears to be an additional, lower set battle sight below it. There's also a marking I can't make out below where the hinged upper sight would rest and I wonder if it is basically a 'hard set' double battle sight for say 100 and 300 meter ranges respectively.
It looks to me like the sight base is stepped to give battle sight teenage adjustment. Having an adjustable battle sight on your adjustable battle sight seems pretty superfluous, but maybe there is some purpose behind it.
There are "short" range markings branded into the wood of the stock, these are for moving the nut thing to adjust the notch. This raises and lowers what Ian called "the battle sight". That's the actual sight you use when the thing's down. For ranges larger than 1200 arshins (850 meters), you raise the ladder sight, and use the ladder notch. The second sight in front of the folding notch plate is probably for ranges shorter than 200 arshins (140 meters), which is the shortest setting in the folded-down position. This second notch is lower, so shorter range. So, I think that Ian misspoke or mixed up his explanation here.
Another great video, Ian! FWIW, when I replaced the shot out 1915 Sestroyretsk barreled action in my M1891 with a 1916 Tula barreled action, the elevation was dead nuts on at 100 yards. Once I got the deflection dialed in, she was shooting sub 6" groups at 100 yards:) It's amazing how much larger the M1891's are compared to the M91/30's, especially with the bayonet mounted.-John in Texas
@@allangibson2408 The poor soldiers typically had no scabbard and had to carry their M-1891 rifles around with the bayonet mounted. Thank God, that was remedied with the M-44 model. The French locking ring bayonet does not fit tightly enough on my M1891 to sight in with, but I am happy that I found one, as they are pretty scarce. FWIW, the Finns used brass shim stock in their M-39's many times, as I discovered them upon the first time cleaning mine:)-John in Texas
Mosin Nagant was spotet even in Siria used by russian forces. DPR is a terrorist organisation created by russian government and fully suported by russian army.
@@MCerberis Mosin still use by all sides. DPR use sniper variant, Russian use modernized OTs 48, Ukrainian use shitty surplus m91 like those sold in US.
The russian archin as unit is about 0.7112 meter or 2.33 foot, goes back to Tsar Peter the Great who defined it for russia in the early 18th century as an equal to 28 english inches and it's still 28 inches (roughly) today, so 28 foot are 12 archin and so forth. Later, as russia didn't want to orient itself any longer on england, they made a prototype fromplatinum-iridium (called "H 1894") that was at 17°C aprox. 0.7112 meter long.
Thanks Ian, another interesting video. Here's a thing, I had an interview with Holland and Holland in London aged 16. It's a really fascinating place with an amazing private armoury for rich clients to store super high end weapons. And the workshop is like stepping back in time to the 18th century.. not so much forgotten weapons more forgotten skills. May be an interesting day out for you if you're ever in that kneck of the woods. J
Ian is in the London and Royal Armoury - Leeds locations, or passing through. Good idea for Forgotten Weapons to seek a conversation with Holland and Holland!
A gold plated turd is still a turd. I could understand doing these improvements to a Mauser, Lee-Enfield, or Springfield 1903 but not to a Mosin-Nagant. Also missed an opportunity to say "an then war were declared".
Great video, that is a rare Mosin....the history is great...your review and inclusion of the development details is greatly appreciated. How do you upgrade the original 91 Mosin? 91/30....better. The Finnish improvements show how it should be done.
I have seen photos of Russian soldiers on parade, and wondered how they all got their rifles at exactly the same level. That belt clip may have been why.
I can't remember where, but I've seen military parades where the soldiers had purpose-made leather holsters/pouches that they would put the stock of the rifle into and carry it around like that.
These would have been best used by doing a fancy bluing job, fancy stocks, a few embellishments like lite engraving , nickel plated screws , pins,mag follower, floor plate, gold plated trigger ,gold inlay in all factory markings , jeweled bolt or nickel plated.a custom cartouche on the side of the butt-stock, for each individual person, high polished everything, and given as presentation pieces to aristocrats and politicians Ina fancy leather bound ,felt lined case. I mean, that would look pretty snazzy ...
Yes, and there were some very odd choices made here. Aluminum springs and steel barrel bands? Doing steel springs and aluminum barrel bands would have saved more weight. And aluminum is a terrible spring. But I suspect that was so that all the stock fittings were the same color(!).
That is a nice artifact. Stupendously rare means you'll never ever find one in a surplus store by accident either. I see the bolt was also lightened a little bit but at the end of the day, it was going to cost a fortune to reinvent the wheel. Thank you for a fascinating look at a very interesting rifle. New and improved does not mean better.
It's better for in the wrong way. All these improvements increase cost with seemingly minimal battlefield relevance. A country like Finland would have made good use of these.
One of my favorite Russian firearms. All models of Mosin Nagants are gorgeous rifles, and it pleases me to see a rare model in such fine condition. Great work on gather information on it too, the in fighting of politics always ruins a good thing for everyone, so many great ideas ignored because of it
At the time, the aluminum on that rifle probably would be like getting titanium components and high temp cobalt alloys on your rifle today. It was around before, but the Bessemer process had only really just started mass production on it in 1889, so that's some high tech gear in the day! Fluted barrel too, pretty fancy!
My guitar teacher had an Epiphone banjo made for him in 1929. It had ultra rare and prohibitively expensive options like a plastic (man made polymer, not bakelite) back and aluminum arm rest. Total cost $729.
@@erroneous6947 Your right, I got mixed up with the 'Bayer Process' which was the refining of bauxite before it goes into the Hall-Heroult process to smelt it. Late here and I really should be asleep.
@@nucleargrizzly1776 It really wasn't until post ww2 prices dropped down for it, from something like 1850-1889 they'd only made about 200 tonnes of the stuff and after the limited mass production you're still looking at $12000-14000 per tonne. By the Korean war it'd dropped down to about $2500, so it would have been like owning a bar of silver really in that banjo
A better improvement post Russo-Japanese war would have been to simply adopt Arisaka in 6.5 mm. Captured in some quantities in 1905-1906 and later acquired commercially it was popular among the Far East hunters, traders, cossacks etc adventurers in the pre-Revolutionary period. Light, handy and accurate it was favored over the Mosin and the Berdan type I, type II rifles. Other alternatives were American winchesters, expensive and not for every game. The Arisaka was particularly liked by the natives who were usually of shorter stature. Following the Civil War of 1918-1922 and the establishment of the Soviet rule, for some time firearms were made increasingly restricted. My great grandfather's rifles were so confiscated in the early 1930s, however he managed to keep an Arisaka and continued to hunt with it, hiding it in a tree. Unfortunately someone snitched on him and that gun was taken away as well. (Later on in the 1950s-1960s it again became easier to buy a hunting gun, at least a smoothbore)
Yeah I bought a 1944 one, I think, in about 2006 for 65$ still in cosmoline. Traded it years later for a Honda 70 mini bike. Good old gun, but wasn’t really my style. Enjoyed shooting it a bit, but in the end went back to a 30-30 for deer hunting.
I wonder if the animosity between the two principles lead to possible sabotage by Tula on the original order. I can see “accidentally” cutting the flutes too deep leading to the burst barrels.
One can be hanged if caught on this. Bureaucracy is a better way. Lost or forget letters or drawings. Use slowest guy to conduct the project. Start conversation with GAU. By letters. In the beginning of XX century. Via horses.
I have a Tula 91/30 , made in 1938 . I dont find the Mosin any worse than a Mauser , or Enfield in weight . Maybe they should have tried to improve their supply chain issues , so their troops received enough food to keep them healthy enough to carry their kit . In other words , their REAL problem . The M! Garand was a real fat lady . I mention this , because most of the nations of the world went into WW2 , with the same rifle they had in WW1 ( except for the US ) with minor changes . The Mosin is not a bad rifle , most of its issues are due to poor working conditions , produced by people who are in poor condition , themselves . That doesnt make for a good product . Then you have poor training on top of that , when the enemy ISNT at the back door of the factory . Kind of like the German volksturm weapons were , when the Germans had their back to the wall . Same low quality .
I clicked on this video very, very quickly. Unique Mosins interest me. Excellent work as always, Ian. I try to add historical and technical information in my own videos, but you have access to far more interesting pieces of equipment than I do. For now, I'll branch out over time.
What were they thinking? Russia all the way up until last year had V notch sights on EVERY Russian rifle. I don't care who you are, your not engaging anything past 200 yards with that sight picture. It's not the guns fault, it's the horrible sight picture.
7:02 it is bracket for the folded sling 18:22 the best for comparison would be M1944 carbine because it reflects the Soviet view on best Mosin varsiant, so Holodovskiy reflects the Tsar-era view. Holodovsliy-Mosin did not become mass not because it was too expensive, but because expectations of new automatic rifle - Fedorov got the state prize in artillery (Mihaylovkaya Premia) in 1911 for his experimental rifle, so there was no sense in rebuilding old bolt-action. In interwar period infantry firearms viewed as secondary (compared to aviation, tank, chemical weapon) and yet, there was expectations of the new automatic rifle so there was not sens to make super-new Mosin and change because of it factory equipment.
It is unfortunate that Tula and the other manufacturers did not use things like the thumb recess, sights, bigger safeties, and lengthened bolt-handles in the 91s and then 91/30.
You could have gotten 80 percent or so of the improvements by adopting the Dragoon pattern as the standard pattern (arguably what the Soviets did in 1930 and shaves a pound off) and blending in the thumb cut out for the clips, the improved trigger (it needed a bit more development, the Finns did the same thing with fewer parts but its on the right track), and the redesigned safety ( a better way to do it would be a loop built in like the Schmidt Rubin rifles). I suspect you would have had something including those improvements had WW1 not broken out.
Funny, my first thoughts on improving a Mosin Nagant were to change the cartridge to rimless, then change the action to a Mauser. Not cheap, but definitely a better rifle.
The Finnish also installed 2 stage triggers in Mosins. I have one and is a vast improvement in accuracy. A business known as Smiths-Sights machines 2 stage triggers upon order that are adjustable and fit normal stock without modifying.
would the bolt head extension make room for re-reaming the chamber, which my have changed to optimize accuracy? they could have changed throat depth/angle.
The wings in the front sight are for moving targets for a rough amount of lead. It really works in games with realistic ballistics. Finnish version of Mosin had many of these features in this rifle, including the cut front sight only that the wings were higher or longer, differing how you want to say it.
Kholodovsky's rifle is an attempt to somehow improve Mosin's crude product. nice try, but no. only one way to improve Mosin - kick off this, and make something else, good. But this is not the way for Russia
That is a pretty cool rifle, and you can see what they were trying to do... but they fell foul to the classic blunder of trying to improve something, whilst making as few changes to the major parts as possible. It seems to me that increasing the length of the bolt handle may have even made operating the action more awkward as the movement you have to make is *even longer* than it was before.
As someone that has done a lot of shooting with Mosin rifles, I think that a longer bolt handle would have been a good improvement. Sometimes the action is a little hard to open depending on the ammo and the condition of the particular rifle. The Mosin bolt handle is shorter than any other military rifle I've ever handled or shot.
It increases the movement distance, but also increases the leverage between the handle and the bolt. With as sticky as Mosin bolts are, the longer handle is probably a god send.
It looks like the russians without going to the extreme tried to make a sniper out of the Mosin Kinda wants to make me ask whether these saw action or ended up as movie props
@@yulusleonard985 well yeah but the 91/30 sniper rifles weren't a distinct pattern. They took particularly accurate rifles and fitted them with optics and bent bolt handles. Granted that was pretty common practice back then.
@@tomaspabon2484 They are not the same rifle. The sniper version are designed to shoot light bullet and have much better rifling and zeroed without bayonet. And if the rifling worn out they hand them another gun. Ordinary infantryman 91/30 designed to shoot heavy bullet that also fired from lmg/hmg so it wont fuck their logistic, zeroed with bayonet.
@@tomaspabon2484 looking at the mosin it appears to look like the russias 1st attempt at a sniper rifle before looking at the scenario of the sniper rifle the eventually adopted..
Corruption leading to bad military procurement decisions that leads to a overpriced weapon that never actually ever shows up on the battlefield. If that not the most russian thing I can think of I don't know what is.
Most likely "confisqated" (read stolen) from a Belgian collector. The Belgian government is keen on taking rifles away from the population under the false pretence of reducing crime. The biggest thief of all doesn't like competition afterall.
Our great Belgian army sent an expeditionary force of then ultra modern armored cars to join the Tsarist army in 1915. They fought all over the place, drove through entire Russia and China , ending up in Vladivostok, and shipped to the USA. And than driving through the USA, and shipped back to France. Really. So… I would not be surprised that they collected some “novelties” during this extraordinary road trip.
@@woutergijs5246 Maybe Monsieur Nagant was sent a sample. I'm sidetracking, but I successfully bid for a Russian Nagant revolver while doing my internship in Brussels. We had one as a war trophy in the family, but my uncle surrendered it to the police in a gun amnesty, because he never bothered to get a licence for it.
I mean the Mosin was made by a Russian-belgian coalition of designers, Mosin was a russian guy and Nagant was a belgian guy. Can't imagine it would be hard to find early mosins in Belgium at that time
It still amazes me that Ian can get into these places to show us these hidden gems.
Years of hard work and being a nice guy have clearly payed off!
Ian is secretly also Lockpicking Lawyer.
Money allows me to travel, but does not help me get access to collections. That comes from years of building a reputation and networking.
@@ForgottenWeapons Excelente contestación!!!!
@@ForgottenWeapons Hell yeah, dude!
Money is just the vehicle that carries Gun Jesus, but its Gun Jesus' personable demeanor and wealth of gun knowledge that gets him into armories.
Keeo up the good work on Forgotten Weapons, bro.
I believe at first it was harder for ian to get access to places like those but now who wouldn't want to show his collection to Gun Jesus himself.
Kholodovskii is such a fascinating look at a type of guy that still exists today. You know the guy, the guy who has some legitimately decent ideas but overlooks those minor, inconsequential problems like "how would you efficiently manufacture that?" and "how much would that cost?"
He just happened to be in the place at the right time that his ideas almost political corrupted their way into production, giving us this wonderful window into this armchair expert redditor of the past
Lol... redditor! :P Thanks for the laugh good Sir! :D
@@andersjjensen if you type like that youre 100% a redditor, the lowest form of internet life
@@Around_blax_dont_relax haha
@@Around_blax_dont_relax it was pretty clearly ironic
Yet the guy ain't a romano/anglophone and is known as Holodóvskij, not «Kh»-«olodovsk»-«ii»
I love that the Imperial Russian Army and Bubba came to the same conclusion. If you just change everything about the Mosin, it's a great rifle.
If you change nothing about the Mosin it's good enough to win World War 2
@@SRR-5657 Was it the rifle? Or was it the hordes of Russian peasants sent to their deaths. Some, not even getting rifles.
You forgot every other country to use the garbage rod also came to the same conclusion
@@asdasd-ty9se I love that Paul Mausers design was so perfect that he completely redesigned the thing from the ground up like 5 times.
@@SRR-5657 hush now, the only two reasons I’m in the comments are to meme (hence calling the moist nugget the garbage rod) and to spread (hopefully) truthful information (by referencing the various Finnish upgrade packages). Please note minor things like context usually aren’t included by me
Whomever does the closed captioning on these videos (which might be Ian), thank you so much. You do an excellent job in communicating the nuance of Ian. I don't struggle with my hearing, but having grown up with people in the Deaf community, I run subtitles all the time. Yours are particularly good!
That is a volunteer named Stephen, who does amazing work.
They do amazing work for people whose English is second language too, I actually greatly improved my understanding of spoken language on this channel.
Appreciate the fact that all the screwhead slots are synchronized on the inlaid aluminum hardware.
They where also on my Beretta 92 until I messed with them and I could not get them sync`ed again but it did look good before the fact.
Its kind of funny how much this rifle seems like a petty "oh they dont like our rifle then we will over do it this time" sort of thing. Just a conglomeration of just super not very important things yet expensive things thrown on the rifle so that it seems elegant.
All those “improvements” come under “lipstick on a pig”. Moist Nuggets are still a pig…
Very M14 EBR to me, "Oh our rifle's irrelevant to the general infantry? We'll just slam a heavy expensive chassis on it and call it our DMR!"
The three best features in my opinion:
1) Long bolt handle
2) Improved safety
3) Improved trigger
An easy to use safety of any type would be an improvement.
Also don't forget the bolt catch. Trivial, yet useful in the heat of combat.
It seems to me like the obvious way to make the Mosin safety more usable would've been to put a ring on the back of it like on the Swiss rifles.
@@RedXlV There was an aftermarket ring you could buy which clamps onto the standard Mosin safety that achieves the same effect. I seem to think the price was about $25 so pretty inexpensive.
I was surpriaed that the trigger wasn't on the list of things to carry over into other new rifle models. though perhaps that was because they already had another good trigger system by then, and the old mosin nagant was just really antiquated.
I recently saw three Type 38 Arisaka that were shortened "obrez-style" in the Baltic States at the Royal Belgian Army Museum, seeing as you are taking a look at their collection I hope you can have a look at these, all three were extremely different and seemed fascinating to me
I hope ian just does a conceptual video on were did the idea of an obrez come from and why
@@burnsboysaresoldiers it was hard to get hand guns in Russia during the revolution.
@@burnsboysaresoldiers concealed carry firearm
@@burnsboysaresoldiers The why is simple enough: revolutionaries have a considerable need for concealable firearms.
I liked this twice
Interesting to see early use of aluminum, before its physical properties were understood. There’s a reason why you don’t make springs from aluminum. I suspect it was more eye candy than anything else.
I think it was, as mentioned, weight saving. Half a kilo is pretty impressive. Unfortunately, it came at considerable expense.
@@arthurmoore9488 some of the applications were reasonable. But using aluminum for the springs that retain the barrel bands wasn’t. Aluminum bands and steel springs would’ve been more sensible. But aluminum was still very new at the time.
@@M60E3MG agreed, steel springs and aluminum barrel bands would have worked better _and_ been lighter.
@@ScottKenny1978 I'm vaguely impressed they went to the trouble to figure out how to spring temper aluminum, knowing now as we do that such an exercise is pretty futile.
Frankly, I never suspected Ian could get his hands on one of these. I thought all known existing examples were in Russia, and in current climate I considered it unlikely for Ian to ever be allowed to prowl through a state-owned museum there. A welcome surprise, to be sure.
There is also at least one in the US...
@@ForgottenWeapons That's even more surprising. Is it in a private collection or does it belong to some institution?
@@janwacawik7432 I think he said it was in the Belgian National army museum collection.
The one I'm aware of in the US is in a private collection.
@@ForgottenWeaponsNow I wonder how it got there. Thanks for answering!
It seems to me that the real product improvement to the M91 was done by the Finns, in the form of the M39. Great trigger, incredibly accurate.
For those interested, Ian has done a video on Finnish Mosin Nagants:
ua-cam.com/video/46ZP9XH8bZs/v-deo.html
Yes, I know. I have one.
@@johnh.tuomala4379 Same. One of my favorite pieces to shoot.
@@Carnophobe one could almost say it is the Finnished mosin*! :D
@@avlinrbdig5715 xD That had no right being that funny.
That's a pretty clever in-place trigger redesign from single to two stage!
Today it'd cost 50 million and two years.
Or like, a week at a gunsmiths bench and some cash.
@@jordanwilliams6972 I think he was referring to the designing process done by a team of no less than a dozen people with three degrees each.
The sight, trigger, and bolt handle were pretty decent improvements, I wish they had made their way into production.
I actually really liked the fluted barrel and the aluminum parts. Weight savings are always a boon in combat.
We always blacked our sights... making them shiny seems... counterintuitive. The wings are usually to protect the sight post, but they seem to short for that. They eventually went with a stamped steel hood. The rear sight would have been cool, if it were an aperture with windage and elevation, as well as range, rather than a notch. In any case, you're issuing them to peasant conscripts, the sight on the M91-30s is more than adequate. I can keep mine within about three or four MOA with it. I never had issue with the bolt handle on mine, nor the trigger. I mean, the stock trigger was never gonna be light, but it is much smoother than what we issue to soldiers today. No, the things that got my attention was the stock pressure barrel bands and the adjustable length stock. Mosins have a stupidly short length of pull for me, and it can make getting a good hold on them tricky.
@@Tomyironmane I probably should have specified the rear sight. The front sight is worse in my opinion than the 1891 sight it was due to replace.
I have had to use the shooting bench to get the bolt open on a couple of 91/30's I have owned. More leverage would have been nice at those points.
@@Aliyah_666 The fluted barrel is a ridiculously manpower-intensive way to save weight, though. You remove considerably more metal by simply using a shorter barrel. Which is exactly what the Soviets eventually did with the M91/30, though I think they would've been well-advised cut the barrel down a few inches shorter than they did. 29 inches is still overly long for an infantry rifle. Even the 27-inch barrel the Finns settled on is longer than necessary, but still an improvement.
@@Aliyah_666 they should have gone with aluminum barrel bands and steel springs. Aluminum doesn't work well as a spring, and there's more mass in the barrel bands than the springs.
When it comes to arms procurement, the most important quality is always, "my cousin works in the war department."
Bruh the GAU asked troops what was wrong with the mosin and the troops just said "yeah"
Passed on one of these in 2010 for $300 because I thought it was bubba'd and the seller thought it had a machine gun barrel because of the fluting...
bruh
It seems that if they had cut the barrel back to 24 inches, and shortened the hand guard and fore end to match it may have saved as much weight.
wonder if the fluting contributed to bursting barrels. While they may have been production Mosin barrels that were proofed, but fluting the barrel I would assume would cause heat stress during the machining.
In my opinion, the fluting was really stupid. Huge increase in cost, very minor weight reduction, significantly weakens the barrel. Just making the barrel a bit thinner, by turning it down a bit on a lathe and leaving it without flutes, would have been cheaper and left you with a strong barrel.
But the other thing: when they pushed the bolt face deeper into the breech, they also increased stress on the barrel! Highest pressure in the chamber, lowest pressure at the muzzle, so barrels are thick at the back and thin at the front. By moving the chamber forward by 6mm, they pushed the high pressure region forward, where the barrel was a bit thinner.
And then they added flutes! Two different ways to weaken a barrel in one gun.
modernization out of touch with production capabilities and quality
if correctly machined, you don't heat up the steel to a temperature where its crystaline structure changes, so no changes in hardness and resistance to pressure by doing that.
the bigger issue is that these flutes seem to be cut with a sawblade, meaning that you now have sharp corners within the material which create and capture stress present within the material quite a bit.
@@10010110100102Error looking at a report " initial pressure testing of the barrels resulted in ruptures due to poor elastic limits in metallurgy and cross-sectional weaknesses caused by the longitudinal flutes along the outer barrel."
No it was just political.. Sabotage.. Infighting.. Nobody likes their foot stamped on
I must say that that is one of the most beautiful mosins ive seen sure it wasn't the greatest in military service but it looks alot better than some people did with mosins in the 90's
The 90's was a bad time for surplus rifles. I live in Norway and in the 90's the Norwegian military decomissioned their captured German Mauser K98s from world war 2 and sold them to civilians for around 50 dollars. People went nuts and did all kinds off crazy things to the rifles to use them for hunting and target shooting. But luckaly there are still many original rifles left, and most people have stopped to modify them as they now realize that the rifles should be kept in original condition.
Yes, I'd love a stock like that! (To the point that I'd go buy a Moisin to put that stock on it.)
"Three barrel bands deliberately very loose"
"oh nice, so it's free floated?"
"Far from it!"
Funny how they put the tight band all the way forward, where it would contribute to barrel bowing the most.
@@Psykomancer The No.1 Mk 3 SMLE does the same thing to damp barrel vibration. It improves accuracy of second shots in light barrelled rifles dramatically.
“Sporterizing” a SMLE ruins its accuracy. They are designed to have two pounds of force applied to the muzzle by the stock.
The Mosin was also sighted to be fired with the supplied bayonet at all times.
@@allangibson2408 The Lee rifle isn't exactly a shining example of what to do.
The adage of "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" comes to mind.
@Tunkkis The Lee is a battle rifle, not a sniper rifle. It was optimised to be used as a tool not a precision instrument. The 1914 Enfield or the Canadian Ross Mk 3 were much better target rifles but proved less than optimal in actual military service being let down by small magazine capacity and vulnerability to mud.
@@allangibson2408 A battle rifle should be simple, while a precision rifle can afford to be a little more cookies, that much we agree on. That is also why I admonish the Lee, it is an ass-backwards way to approach a solution. Instead of using a thin barrel and a rеtаrdеd clamping system which needs specific spring tension, they could've done as Mauser did and used an ever so slightly heavier stepped barrel. Much simpler, and still plenty accurate for a battle rifle. The snipers can have their ~3 MOA rifles.
I never thought a Mosin Nagant could look like a finely crafted piece of workmanship. This rifle looks positively German in its level of artisanship.
Mosins were usually well crafted before WW1 and shortly after the russian revolution when tsarist era mosin parts were still abundant. By WW2 when they were producing new soviet era variants of the mosin they were rushing them out and not really worried about high quality, all they cared was that the Gun went bang when fired, everything else was an afterthought. It's the difference between the quality of a 1920s Thompson vs a WW2 era Thompson
@@Gameprojordan I mean to be fair to the Soviets they were trying to arm millions of conscripts . While fighting off a determined German invasion.
The Tsars for the most part were only arming their Cossacks.
@@clothar23 not comparable. Texas is a state within a country, Russia at the time of the ussr was a country within a union of countries. The ussr itself isn't a country, it was more like the EU where it was a coalition of countries under one banner
@@Gameprojordan
what I take from it is that:
1)you have admitted that you have no idea what EU is;
2)you have also admitted that you have no idea how USSR worked.
What exactly were you trying to achieve with that? Add another bucket of water to retroactively trying to scrub off all the blood and grime from that failed experiment?
The Finns made some pretty nice ones too.
GAU: "what about barrell life?"
Russian soldier's feedback: "wait, you mean whe really should shoot with this thing?"
Lol right?! Pull the trigger on a handgrenade? No way comrade. I'll keep my vodka hand ✋️
I remember seeing an old forum post that was unironically singing praises to the Mosin Nagant, hailing it as better than any rifle at the time, with a list of all the ways it was better. I shit you not, one of the pros was that the rifle had the perfect length and ergonomics to be used as a crutch. That bit of wisdom was liberally used to mock the guy for months afterwards.
Ian, they were literally carving grooves into the barrel.
I can totally see why that would cause barrel -blasts- bursts if done incorrectly.
i think the only meaningful changes that were amde to this and could actually have been viable for production was the 2 stage trigger ,thumb cutout, longer bolt handle , and bolt hold open. everything else seems like fancy nonsense that would significantly increase the time and expenses needed to make them. plus none of this actually helps fix one of the big problems of the standard infantry mosin being too long .Kholodovskii easily could have just cut down the barrel maybe 6 inches and reduced both the lenght and the weight of the rifle significantly without having to make any other weight reducing measures.
A better sight but not the one they used could also be added to your list, but otherwise I agree completely.
At the time you didn't want to cut the barrel short because the idea of bayonet fighting was very much still a thing in military circles. And the Russo-Japanese War saw a lot of bayonet fighting just previously.
@@tristanc3873 u could shorten the barrel and make a new bayonet lug.
@@tristanc3873 just lengthen the bayonet, problem solved.
Should have just put Bubba on it. He'd fix it.
Definitely some clever ideas interesting to see the attempt at improveing the safety.
I hate to be that guy, but it looks like Ian missed something about the rear sight. If you look at 6:51, you can see that the battle sight has a hinge to it and that there appears to be an additional, lower set battle sight below it. There's also a marking I can't make out below where the hinged upper sight would rest and I wonder if it is basically a 'hard set' double battle sight for say 100 and 300 meter ranges respectively.
unit of measure is a Russian unit (Arshin). 1 arshin equals 28 inches. Has nothing to do with meters actually.
@@Uncle_Neil the “100 and 300 meter markings” comment was an example
It looks to me like the sight base is stepped to give battle sight teenage adjustment. Having an adjustable battle sight on your adjustable battle sight seems pretty superfluous, but maybe there is some purpose behind it.
Maybe the intent was a sort of volley sight like on the original Mk IIIs?
There are "short" range markings branded into the wood of the stock, these are for moving the nut thing to adjust the notch. This raises and lowers what Ian called "the battle sight". That's the actual sight you use when the thing's down. For ranges larger than 1200 arshins (850 meters), you raise the ladder sight, and use the ladder notch.
The second sight in front of the folding notch plate is probably for ranges shorter than 200 arshins (140 meters), which is the shortest setting in the folded-down position. This second notch is lower, so shorter range.
So, I think that Ian misspoke or mixed up his explanation here.
Another great video, Ian! FWIW, when I replaced the shot out 1915 Sestroyretsk barreled action in my M1891 with a 1916 Tula barreled action, the elevation was dead nuts on at 100 yards. Once I got the deflection dialed in, she was shooting sub 6" groups at 100 yards:) It's amazing how much larger the M1891's are compared to the M91/30's, especially with the bayonet mounted.-John in Texas
The Mosin is sighted for use with the bayonet fitted. Russians thought bayonets should be fitted when ever the rifle is actually used.
@@allangibson2408 The poor soldiers typically had no scabbard and had to carry their M-1891 rifles around with the bayonet mounted. Thank God, that was remedied with the M-44 model. The French locking ring bayonet does not fit tightly enough on my M1891 to sight in with, but I am happy that I found one, as they are pretty scarce. FWIW, the Finns used brass shim stock in their M-39's many times, as I discovered them upon the first time cleaning mine:)-John in Texas
Looking at the shape of the “wings” and the round bead on the front sight…any chance this originally had some kind of hood ?
That is certainly what I thought.
She is beautiful! How could we forget that mosin! 😍
Russians didn't forget about it, they still using it in war with Ukraine. Second army in the world 😁
@@MCerberis DPR not Russian troops, but ok
Mosin Nagant was spotet even in Siria used by russian forces. DPR is a terrorist organisation created by russian government and fully suported by russian army.
@@MCerberis i don’t know if I have to explain but yeah nobody has forgotten this weapon 😆
@@MCerberis Mosin still use by all sides. DPR use sniper variant, Russian use modernized OTs 48, Ukrainian use shitty surplus m91 like those sold in US.
The russian archin as unit is about 0.7112 meter or 2.33 foot, goes back to Tsar Peter the Great who defined it for russia in the early 18th century as an equal to 28 english inches and it's still 28 inches (roughly) today, so 28 foot are 12 archin and so forth. Later, as russia didn't want to orient itself any longer on england, they made a prototype fromplatinum-iridium (called "H 1894") that was at 17°C aprox. 0.7112 meter long.
It occurred to me that an arshin, at 2' 4" was roughly one marching, pace for a Russian infantryman.
Thanks Ian, another interesting video.
Here's a thing, I had an interview with Holland and Holland in London aged 16. It's a really fascinating place with an amazing private armoury for rich clients to store super high end weapons. And the workshop is like stepping back in time to the 18th century.. not so much forgotten weapons more forgotten skills.
May be an interesting day out for you if you're ever in that kneck of the woods.
J
Ian is in the London and Royal Armoury - Leeds locations, or passing through. Good idea for Forgotten Weapons to seek a conversation with Holland and Holland!
A gold plated turd is still a turd. I could understand doing these improvements to a Mauser, Lee-Enfield, or Springfield 1903 but not to a Mosin-Nagant.
Also missed an opportunity to say "an then war were declared".
Сестрорецкий, что под Питером👍👍👍! Всем привет из России!!! Всем, здравомыслящим!!!
The rifle is too long!
*Shortens rifle 1 inch*
Are you... mad at me?
That barrel fluting must have been a favourite feature for the soldier. Esoecially when it cane time to cleaning the rifle...
Great video, that is a rare Mosin....the history is great...your review and inclusion of the development details is greatly appreciated. How do you upgrade the original 91 Mosin? 91/30....better. The Finnish improvements show how it should be done.
That is the best looking mosin nagant rifle I've ever seen
Beautiful rifle.
"If the Mosin Nagant was so good, where's the Mosin Nagant 2?"
Mosin Nagant 2:
I have seen photos of Russian soldiers on parade, and wondered how they all got their rifles at exactly the same level. That belt clip may have been why.
There wasn't many of these made though.
I can't remember where, but I've seen military parades where the soldiers had purpose-made leather holsters/pouches that they would put the stock of the rifle into and carry it around like that.
Awesome, this is a very interesting review!! Thank you so much for doing this!!
These would have been best used by doing a fancy bluing job, fancy stocks, a few embellishments like lite engraving , nickel plated screws , pins,mag follower, floor plate, gold plated trigger ,gold inlay in all factory markings , jeweled bolt or nickel plated.a custom cartouche on the side of the butt-stock, for each individual person, high polished everything, and given as presentation pieces to aristocrats and politicians Ina fancy leather bound ,felt lined case. I mean, that would look pretty snazzy ...
At the end of the day a fancy mosin is still just a mosin. Only so much you can do without fundamentally changing the rifle.
Yes, and there were some very odd choices made here. Aluminum springs and steel barrel bands? Doing steel springs and aluminum barrel bands would have saved more weight. And aluminum is a terrible spring.
But I suspect that was so that all the stock fittings were the same color(!).
Theres something slightly cursed about a fancy Mosin. Beautiful rifle though.
"Fortunately world war I happened" - Ian McCollum
wow that must be the most beautiful mosin I have ever seen :O
New! Improved!
Well, it looks better, anyway.
That is a nice artifact. Stupendously rare means you'll never ever find one in a surplus store by accident either. I see the bolt was also lightened a little bit but at the end of the day, it was going to cost a fortune to reinvent the wheel. Thank you for a fascinating look at a very interesting rifle. New and improved does not mean better.
Improved means better.
@@MrLoobu The improvements didn't seem to make that rifle better from what I could see, but that's just me.
@@BigLisaFan Then they arent improvements.
@@BigLisaFan the rifle looked better than any other Russian mosin like a actual western made rifle.
It's better for in the wrong way. All these improvements increase cost with seemingly minimal battlefield relevance. A country like Finland would have made good use of these.
Just when you think you know everything about the Mosin Nagant..... Ka-Pow Ian Drops a Video
I have to say Thank You for this video! Best regards and wishes from Lithuania.
Great as always.
One of my favorite Russian firearms. All models of Mosin Nagants are gorgeous rifles, and it pleases me to see a rare model in such fine condition. Great work on gather information on it too, the in fighting of politics always ruins a good thing for everyone, so many great ideas ignored because of it
Probably the best example ever, of shining a donkey to turn it into a horse....
At the time, the aluminum on that rifle probably would be like getting titanium components and high temp cobalt alloys on your rifle today. It was around before, but the Bessemer process had only really just started mass production on it in 1889, so that's some high tech gear in the day!
Fluted barrel too, pretty fancy!
maaan the price per rifle must've been crazy
My guitar teacher had an Epiphone banjo made for him in 1929. It had ultra rare and prohibitively expensive options like a plastic (man made polymer, not bakelite) back and aluminum arm rest. Total cost $729.
@@erroneous6947 Your right, I got mixed up with the 'Bayer Process' which was the refining of bauxite before it goes into the Hall-Heroult process to smelt it. Late here and I really should be asleep.
@@nucleargrizzly1776 It really wasn't until post ww2 prices dropped down for it, from something like 1850-1889 they'd only made about 200 tonnes of the stuff and after the limited mass production you're still looking at $12000-14000 per tonne. By the Korean war it'd dropped down to about $2500, so it would have been like owning a bar of silver really in that banjo
@@krissteel4074 Silver would have been far too pedestrian for this banjo. 😁
A better improvement post Russo-Japanese war would have been to simply adopt Arisaka in 6.5 mm. Captured in some quantities in 1905-1906 and later acquired commercially it was popular among the Far East hunters, traders, cossacks etc adventurers in the pre-Revolutionary period. Light, handy and accurate it was favored over the Mosin and the Berdan type I, type II rifles. Other alternatives were American winchesters, expensive and not for every game. The Arisaka was particularly liked by the natives who were usually of shorter stature.
Following the Civil War of 1918-1922 and the establishment of the Soviet rule, for some time firearms were made increasingly restricted. My great grandfather's rifles were so confiscated in the early 1930s, however he managed to keep an Arisaka and continued to hunt with it, hiding it in a tree. Unfortunately someone snitched on him and that gun was taken away as well.
(Later on in the 1950s-1960s it again became easier to buy a hunting gun, at least a smoothbore)
Most Mosins don't have great triggers ( Finns are the exception) but this is easily remedied
Greatest Mosin Nagant in history? Kinda like being the Valedictorian of summer school.
Not gonna lie I owned a Mosin before, but that Mosin looks really damn slick.
Pedersoli needs to make one
Yeah I bought a 1944 one, I think, in about 2006 for 65$ still in cosmoline. Traded it years later for a Honda 70 mini bike. Good old gun, but wasn’t really my style. Enjoyed shooting it a bit, but in the end went back to a 30-30 for deer hunting.
Yes, it's a gorgeous stock, and I'd actually buy a Moisin just to put that stock on it!
My type 53 mosin has a super easy safety that I can just snap into unsafe with my thumb
I wonder if the animosity between the two principles lead to possible sabotage by Tula on the original order. I can see “accidentally” cutting the flutes too deep leading to the burst barrels.
One can be hanged if caught on this. Bureaucracy is a better way. Lost or forget letters or drawings. Use slowest guy to conduct the project. Start conversation with GAU. By letters. In the beginning of XX century. Via horses.
So basically modern Bundeswehr procurement then? Yea - a devastating force to be sure.
Some of the bands are loose and retained by levers, so, they can be, easily, removed when the levers are pressed.
I have a Tula 91/30 , made in 1938 . I dont find the Mosin any worse than a Mauser , or Enfield in weight . Maybe they should have tried to improve their supply chain issues , so their troops received enough food to keep them healthy enough to carry their kit . In other words , their REAL problem . The M! Garand was a real fat lady . I mention this , because most of the nations of the world went into WW2 , with the same rifle they had in WW1 ( except for the US ) with minor changes . The Mosin is not a bad rifle , most of its issues are due to poor working conditions , produced by people who are in poor condition , themselves . That doesnt make for a good product . Then you have poor training on top of that , when the enemy ISNT at the back door of the factory . Kind of like the German volksturm weapons were , when the Germans had their back to the wall . Same low quality .
So you're telling me, that all the things I've said for years that would make the Mosin better, the Russians were considering?
I clicked on this video very, very quickly. Unique Mosins interest me.
Excellent work as always, Ian. I try to add historical and technical information in my own videos, but you have access to far more interesting pieces of equipment than I do. For now, I'll branch out over time.
Now if there ever was a gun to stumble across and in a estate sale somewhere, I'm thinking this would be it!!! 🤠👍
the words " great " and "mosin" rarely come together, interesting to see a genuine attempt to improve a gun that is widely disliked.
Idk I know a lot of glue sniffers that love them
My Mosin is pretty great. Why? It's mine
@@castielsisko2120 maybe they just like the taste of the cosmoline?
Yeah, the Mosin is called the "garbage-rod" by TFB for a REASON lmao
@@faxxy4077 it's okay I'm a glue sniffing mosin boy too
Gold standard Mosin Nagant
What were they thinking?
Russia all the way up until last year had V notch sights on EVERY Russian rifle.
I don't care who you are, your not engaging anything past 200 yards with that sight picture.
It's not the guns fault, it's the horrible sight picture.
Then communism happened and literally every bit of this rifle was completely disregarded….
To sum it up
“Nyet rifle is fine”
I would think that all that steel in contact with aluminum would create galvanic corrosion issues in the field.
That looks like pure aluminum, which is fairly non-corrosive.
7:02 it is bracket for the folded sling
18:22 the best for comparison would be M1944 carbine because it reflects the Soviet view on best Mosin varsiant, so Holodovskiy reflects the Tsar-era view.
Holodovsliy-Mosin did not become mass not because it was too expensive, but because expectations of new automatic rifle - Fedorov got the state prize in artillery (Mihaylovkaya Premia) in 1911 for his experimental rifle, so there was no sense in rebuilding old bolt-action. In interwar period infantry firearms viewed as secondary (compared to aviation, tank, chemical weapon) and yet, there was expectations of the new automatic rifle so there was not sens to make super-new Mosin and change because of it factory equipment.
It is unfortunate that Tula and the other manufacturers did not use things like the thumb recess, sights, bigger safeties, and lengthened bolt-handles in the 91s and then 91/30.
The Mosin Nagant the main weapon of Russia from 1892 to 1945.
You could have gotten 80 percent or so of the improvements by adopting the Dragoon pattern as the standard pattern (arguably what the Soviets did in 1930 and shaves a pound off) and blending in the thumb cut out for the clips, the improved trigger (it needed a bit more development, the Finns did the same thing with fewer parts but its on the right track), and the redesigned safety ( a better way to do it would be a loop built in like the Schmidt Rubin rifles). I suspect you would have had something including those improvements had WW1 not broken out.
That is a beautiful garbage rod.
Funny, my first thoughts on improving a Mosin Nagant were to change the cartridge to rimless, then change the action to a Mauser. Not cheap, but definitely a better rifle.
The Finnish also installed 2 stage triggers in Mosins.
I have one and is a vast improvement in accuracy.
A business known as Smiths-Sights machines 2 stage triggers upon order that are adjustable and fit normal stock without modifying.
This makes me wonder: what is the first gun that used aluminum?
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Do you mean in structural parts like frame or receiver?
There were some revolvers by S&W, and the Armalite products in the 1950s and 1960s.
Very neat rifle. I have to suspect the Finns did it better.
The Russians rushed to improve the mosin, but the Finnish finnished it!
Okay, that is the prettiest Mosin I've ever seen. Almost like someone tried to steampunk the crap out of it.
would the bolt head extension make room for re-reaming the chamber, which my have changed to optimize accuracy? they could have changed throat depth/angle.
Simo hayha has entered the chat
Jel to bgt
"i hate to say it it, fortunately ww1 happened"
The wings in the front sight are for moving targets for a rough amount of lead. It really works in games with realistic ballistics. Finnish version of Mosin had many of these features in this rifle, including the cut front sight only that the wings were higher or longer, differing how you want to say it.
Kholodovsky's rifle is an attempt to somehow improve Mosin's crude product. nice try, but no. only one way to improve Mosin - kick off this, and make something else, good. But this is not the way for Russia
What a beauty!
ALUMINIUM? Modern method of aluminium production dates to 1920. What they were thinking?
How can we make this old gun cost 20 times more
3:00 Ian trying his best to show us front sights
Camera autofocus: man those fingers are magnificent
That is a pretty cool rifle, and you can see what they were trying to do... but they fell foul to the classic blunder of trying to improve something, whilst making as few changes to the major parts as possible.
It seems to me that increasing the length of the bolt handle may have even made operating the action more awkward as the movement you have to make is *even longer* than it was before.
As someone that has done a lot of shooting with Mosin rifles, I think that a longer bolt handle would have been a good improvement. Sometimes the action is a little hard to open depending on the ammo and the condition of the particular rifle. The Mosin bolt handle is shorter than any other military rifle I've ever handled or shot.
It increases the movement distance, but also increases the leverage between the handle and the bolt. With as sticky as Mosin bolts are, the longer handle is probably a god send.
It sure is a beautiful looking gun.
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Thats the most beautiful stock I have ever seen on a Mosin !
KH in russian words and names can be replaced with H. Dont know the reason for this spelling.
ZH in pronounced as "ʒ", like S in viSion, meaSure.
This is the real gigachad mosin!
Whatever you do... Don't sporterize it.
It looks like the russians without going to the extreme tried to make a sniper out of the Mosin
Kinda wants to make me ask whether these saw action or ended up as movie props
They did make sniper version of mosin.
@@yulusleonard985 well yeah but the 91/30 sniper rifles weren't a distinct pattern. They took particularly accurate rifles and fitted them with optics and bent bolt handles. Granted that was pretty common practice back then.
@@tomaspabon2484 They are not the same rifle. The sniper version are designed to shoot light bullet and have much better rifling and zeroed without bayonet. And if the rifling worn out they hand them another gun. Ordinary infantryman 91/30 designed to shoot heavy bullet that also fired from lmg/hmg so it wont fuck their logistic, zeroed with bayonet.
@@tomaspabon2484 looking at the mosin it appears to look like the russias 1st attempt at a sniper rifle before looking at the scenario of the sniper rifle the eventually adopted..
Corruption leading to bad military procurement decisions that leads to a overpriced weapon that never actually ever shows up on the battlefield. If that not the most russian thing I can think of I don't know what is.
Definitely an interesting take on a mosin
You cannot polish a turd! However; you can roll it in glitter!
Makes me wonder how did that gun end up in Belgium of all places.
Most likely "confisqated" (read stolen) from a Belgian collector. The Belgian government is keen on taking rifles away from the population under the false pretence of reducing crime. The biggest thief of all doesn't like competition afterall.
Our great Belgian army sent an expeditionary force of then ultra modern armored cars to join the Tsarist army in 1915. They fought all over the place, drove through entire Russia and China , ending up in Vladivostok, and shipped to the USA. And than driving through the USA, and shipped back to France. Really.
So… I would not be surprised that they collected some “novelties” during this extraordinary road trip.
@@woutergijs5246 Maybe Monsieur Nagant was sent a sample. I'm sidetracking, but I successfully bid for a Russian Nagant revolver while doing my internship in Brussels. We had one as a war trophy in the family, but my uncle surrendered it to the police in a gun amnesty, because he never bothered to get a licence for it.
I mean the mosin was made by a Belgian guy then sold to Russia. Can't imagine it would be hard to find a mosin in the country of origin
I mean the Mosin was made by a Russian-belgian coalition of designers, Mosin was a russian guy and Nagant was a belgian guy. Can't imagine it would be hard to find early mosins in Belgium at that time