I made Denam a Ninja as soon as I could. To me, it's the best class besides Lord overall purely because of the utility. I know a lot of people complain about their spells, but they aren't supposed to deal a ton of damage - rather, they're supposed to deal the *right amount* of damage. For instance, I've noticed that once you get a cleric to around 60% HP their heal target priority becomes themselves. With blowguns, you have an answer for everything typically in back row, and even frontline units like Gryphons. Envenom is CRAZY broken, and I'm sure Coffee Potato agrees. I only wish they would have unique items, like nutrient pills, to have some form of healing, but otherwise they're great. Say, Coffee Potato, would you be up for making a video on the most optimum Lord? As in the least amount of classes that offers the most utility. (Also, imagine if Denam could be a Wicce? That would be wild. I wish it were possible to mod the game, but I don't think it is.)
I was thinking about using Evanescence (the self destruct Ninja skill) along with multiple units carrying resurrect (since you get an immediate turn once resurrected) / healing items into my speed run, and it didn't hit hard enough (like 100 - 150hp per enemy character hit) to warrant using regularly in my opinion unless you can get Denam next to the boss, which on some maps is easier said than done, and on maps with Kill them all makes no sense as the AI moves much faster than human input. In my experience, the AI will never use that move either. If it scales with the weapon earrings, it could be worth the extra maps to get the materials needed to make them, butttttt extra maps on a speed run is hard to justify, esp since the MP cost is high, and you will not get tons of MP stuff as you never go into the Wildwood.
funny you say that i have 2 units just for that ill jot em down (ik this is some time later but who knows could be for someone else) the first is a zombie ninja i normally use whatever element the generic unit comes as for my gimmick builds and this one was lightning so the used a katana and blowgun for weapon focused on applying status effects like and using the lightning summon obv so shadowbind bridle envenom i have support katana and blowgun conccentration and evanescence for the finishing moves i have dark blade,swallow slash, and thunderwave you can use more or less as you please i just like my themed builds and for blowguns venom sting and scorpion shot the other unit is a zombie pumpkin and ill post that as a reply to this
the zombie pumpkin experiment was a fire unit so they used a fan and shield for weapon instil fire,sparksphere,paralytic wave and sleep to try and hold people for the big kaboom hammers,pumpkin lure,meditate,pumpkin bomb(which is fire funny enough) gaia sunder and crimson reach for the finishing moves hope someone enjoys these builds or plays around with em
Oh, and I'm going for that meme build, the floating storm cloud. Ogre sword? Time to grind Hel for the first time in Reborn. (Just unlocked Eden, Chaos route.) I feel like ninja deserve Velocity Shift, like the White Knights. One more question: Who can become a White Knight other than Gildus and Mildain?
I'd like to add that while summons may hit harder/more often, it's funny to have a guy running around in his pajamas flinging live snakes (fire ninjitsu) or spiders (earth ninjitsu) or ferrets (air ninjitsu) at people. For a super mobile class, the fact that they can use Snipe Gators feels... silly. Did they need free boons of swiftness plus swiftfoot 2?
It is pretty apt I am watching this video as one of my guys (in Disgaea 1) is dying to debuffs. Including poison that is just not going off. But yeah, Ninjas feel underrated. I combined mine with an archer, for even more absurdity.
@@CoffeePotato I also did as you suggested about not necessarily equipping weapon skills. My Ninja did fine just applying debuffs. Poisonbringer Stun Blowgun Petridart Blowgun. Stun was my main tool, since it didnt interfere with poison. But Petridart was still really good to deal with summoners and other immediate threats.
I swear when listening half asleep to your videos I heard you mention there was a secret passive ninjas have, something to do with applying status from weapons. Like blowdarts or daggers akways apply on hit or something? I can't find where you said it or anywhere else corroborating it, did I just have a surreal dream?
Palying fft.ffta and ffta2 gives a stong preference for dual katana ninjas, can't help it! Still, so much you can get out of this class! I gotta use the envenom shortbow sometime.
They can use the elemental Shortbows later to do better default damage, just remember to add Breach and Fear when possible for the wacky numbers. Has an added benefit at that point of being able to be used alongside a knife or sword for counter poison, too.
Always been curious where you pull your "poison ticks 3 times between turns" number from. I mostly see 1 tick of poison, sometimes 2 if they took a long turn. And just to confirm, this is me poisoning them. Them taking a turn. Their next turn after comes around with only 1 poison tick in between their turns. Still good, but 33% of the damage you're saying Haha
It's very unclear how long a round is. I also see a lot of units naturally recover from poison before the second tick, sometimes even before the first. It's a good status, but I feel like he over values it just a bit. 30% eventually is nice, 30% now is almost always better. DoT effects are useless if things don't live long enough for them to tick. If using poison with silence or bind, stun is ok for this, to lock a unit down and ignore them while the bleed health and use up heals that aren't going to the front line, that can be useful. As a core strategy, it's mediocre. Now if you can hit hard and apply poison, which ninjas can do, then it's the best of both worlds.
Poison does damage ticks per RT interval so if the unit have fast RT and doing nothing you will see less poison tick but the duration still there nevertheless.
@@SakuraiLouishana yeah I know that it uses RT to do the time. My question would be how much RT passes between every poison tick. And is it constant for everyone or can it be sped up/ slowed down.
Rounds vary, and the AI takes full turns. So, if you're poisoning your own unit and having them stand there, it won't tick as often. It's based off of RT ticks, and typically this means 30% per turn vs the AI.
There's a lot I would tweak with their skills to be more intuitive. Making waterwalk and ignore elevation auto-spells would go a long way to selling the theme of ninjas only having so much space to carry a bag of tricks. Would envemon shields be too powerful?
I've heard on the grapevine that Evenescence is a bit of a fake-out in that after it goes off, the ninja gets back up. I might actually test it in the near future to see if it's true!
@@briar_rose_ Glad to help, obsessively testing a game shakes cool stuff out sometimes. Also, it might well be the key to making the No Movement run possible.
I don't understand Steel Stance. It differs from phalanx because enemies can see armor and prioritize? Defense increases so they become a low priority target? (AI prefers high armor or low armor targets?) 1:47 & 22:18
Steelstance increases armor values, and the AI can see it. Phalanx reduces a percentage of damage, and the AI can't see it. Phalanx also applies right before the number lands, so, say they're ruptured and hit with a critical spell that reflects, the reflected target would likely get hit for some 20x the damage they would.
Int, but they uniquely don't get the element bonus from the caster. This is why they are a high damage, but card dependent spell early on, but can become insane by their T2 variants.
One problem with poison, once everything is poisoned, its usefulness drops considerably. I think that one dual wielding unit did more damage than all the poison in the fight. I'd have to calculate it all up, but poison didn't tick that often, things tended to die before the second tick, if not the first. Poison is great, but removing damage from the field as fast as possible is key. Status effects like stun, petrify, and stop can do that temporarily quite nicely. Poison does 30% per round, but it requires things to survive for a round. It's also very unclear how long a round is. A group built like this with a little of everything is not a great way to run ninjas. One line of high damage melee with a line of ranged units would likely be more ideal. Might not die so much if healing and resurrection items were more common in the builds, no one had any.
@@SakuraiLouishana Plenty of units clear poison naturally before the first tick. What that RT interval is isn't clear. It's 10% per tick, but no clear sign on when those ticks will happen, and if the unit isn't alive long enough, the ticks become irrelevant. Poison is strong, but it should be in addition to your normal strategy, not your normal strategy.
@@gaberielpendragon i'm pretty sure its a normal strategy since in the old TO it was a very miniscule damage. Now its good enough that people use it on week 1 to beat PoTD as soon as its unlocked. Namely: ninja poison, scorpion +1. Not much investment required too. Anyway its around 65~70 rt per tick. Poison pretty much used as counter for high penetration resistance like golem. They never got outdated even in lategame anyway. Unless you just playing meta not normally i guess.
So I say it's 30% because while it is on ticks, it's still ticking 3 times per round, whatever the situation there. I think it works a little differently than before, because those 3 ticks are consistent. On the above, missing the point a little. Removing pieces is fine, but this is for far more than just damage. Say a boss has a healing element, and they're hiding you weaken a unit, poison it, the healers run up to heal it as a priority, they put themselves out in the open, but the unit dies anyway. It's useful for damage, sure, bit it's ability to apply pressure and manipulate situations is far more useful.
@@CoffeePotato Yea, but poisoning on a 1 damage hit is almost never as good as poisoning on a 200 or larger hit. The extra speed is nice, but it isn't 200 times faster. It also gives them time to attack back waiting for poison to kill them. It's a nice additive strategy, but you can still use it along with an alpha damage strategy. In your example, just hitting them brings the healers up as well. Focus fire from a well-designed team will drop any unit before healing can be applied anyways. It's great for when you are speed running or otherwise tackling content under powered. Which I know is a lot of the content you make. Even when going at level it's useful. But if using it stops your ability to just alpha units off the board, then it's not so useful anymore.
I don't understand the love for ninjas with bows. Double katana 270dmg x 2 is way better then the low bow damage. Use mage for poison cloud. That's at lvl 36 too
Speed and consistency. They have tissue thin defense without their Stance rolling. Running up and hitting looks nice at first, but you're paying RT for each swing, they're now stuck in the front, and their damage is done. At that same time, that 1 damage becomes 200-1300 per round, depending on HP, can likely get 3 shots off while standing behind a tree or something in the same time, and can spread that to more areas at once. Depends on what you want in the team, but I know I love using them to overwhelm recovery by rapid turns and DoTs melting the whole team at once. (For more context on why they have such a speed discrepancy, both swords by themselves weigh more than the Shortbow, and Double Attack gives no Swing RT discount...so they're leaving themselves super open. With enough pressure elsewhere, it can work, but those numbers are likely only going to be against certain things. )
Melee ninja without steelstance will get one shot by enemy special, therefore no good for incap run. Bow ninja to shut down bosses and spellcasters is more useful. Monkey leap ninjutsu should be aoe instead of self only. Ninjustsu focused ninja is lame due to low damage.
That's a lot of assumptions! They are low damage, but their mechanics make them insane for an Ogre Blade setup. Steelstance can be guaranteed, and everything dies to poison. They become insane to dislodge once they're running.
I made Denam a Ninja as soon as I could. To me, it's the best class besides Lord overall purely because of the utility. I know a lot of people complain about their spells, but they aren't supposed to deal a ton of damage - rather, they're supposed to deal the *right amount* of damage. For instance, I've noticed that once you get a cleric to around 60% HP their heal target priority becomes themselves. With blowguns, you have an answer for everything typically in back row, and even frontline units like Gryphons. Envenom is CRAZY broken, and I'm sure Coffee Potato agrees. I only wish they would have unique items, like nutrient pills, to have some form of healing, but otherwise they're great.
Say, Coffee Potato, would you be up for making a video on the most optimum Lord? As in the least amount of classes that offers the most utility. (Also, imagine if Denam could be a Wicce? That would be wild. I wish it were possible to mod the game, but I don't think it is.)
Thank you for the info! Can’t wait for the other classes.
Thank you for all your vids dude!
Glad to do what I can!
These thumbnails going crazy man. Love the videos sorry I'm late to the party!
Thank You, and always a good time!
Yeah I'm super curious about the self-destruct option... could be quite interesting with zombie ninjas!
I was thinking about using Evanescence (the self destruct Ninja skill) along with multiple units carrying resurrect (since you get an immediate turn once resurrected) / healing items into my speed run, and it didn't hit hard enough (like 100 - 150hp per enemy character hit) to warrant using regularly in my opinion unless you can get Denam next to the boss, which on some maps is easier said than done, and on maps with Kill them all makes no sense as the AI moves much faster than human input. In my experience, the AI will never use that move either. If it scales with the weapon earrings, it could be worth the extra maps to get the materials needed to make them, butttttt extra maps on a speed run is hard to justify, esp since the MP cost is high, and you will not get tons of MP stuff as you never go into the Wildwood.
funny you say that i have 2 units just for that ill jot em down (ik this is some time later but who knows could be for someone else) the first is a zombie ninja
i normally use whatever element the generic unit comes as for my gimmick builds and this one was lightning so the used a
katana and blowgun for weapon
focused on applying status effects like and using the lightning summon obv so shadowbind bridle envenom
i have support katana and blowgun conccentration and evanescence
for the finishing moves i have dark blade,swallow slash, and thunderwave you can use more or less as you please i just like my themed builds
and for blowguns venom sting and scorpion shot
the other unit is a zombie pumpkin and ill post that as a reply to this
the zombie pumpkin experiment was a fire unit so they used a
fan and shield for weapon
instil fire,sparksphere,paralytic wave and sleep to try and hold people for the big kaboom
hammers,pumpkin lure,meditate,pumpkin bomb(which is fire funny enough)
gaia sunder and crimson reach for the finishing moves
hope someone enjoys these builds or plays around with em
It's trash. 100mp and all remaining hp for half the dmg of apocrypha spell
Good video, I used to like ninjas. But I am still having too much fun with my beast tamers.
Understandable😂
THE DAY OF DELIVERANCE IS AT HAND!!
Deliver ants? But why would you need them? 😮
@@CoffeePotato Does Falsestrike from Smoke Screen stack? Say one dumb boss gets hit twice by Smoke Screen. Is that a 40% chance of dodge?
Oh, and I'm going for that meme build, the floating storm cloud. Ogre sword? Time to grind Hel for the first time in Reborn. (Just unlocked Eden, Chaos route.) I feel like ninja deserve Velocity Shift, like the White Knights.
One more question: Who can become a White Knight other than Gildus and Mildain?
I'd like to add that while summons may hit harder/more often, it's funny to have a guy running around in his pajamas flinging live snakes (fire ninjitsu) or spiders (earth ninjitsu) or ferrets (air ninjitsu) at people. For a super mobile class, the fact that they can use Snipe Gators feels... silly. Did they need free boons of swiftness plus swiftfoot 2?
Yes. They need to become speed.
It is pretty apt I am watching this video as one of my guys (in Disgaea 1) is dying to debuffs. Including poison that is just not going off.
But yeah, Ninjas feel underrated. I combined mine with an archer, for even more absurdity.
They can get nutty pretty quick, it feels great to just turn on the damage tap and sneak away.
@@CoffeePotato I also did as you suggested about not necessarily equipping weapon skills. My Ninja did fine just applying debuffs.
Poisonbringer
Stun Blowgun
Petridart Blowgun.
Stun was my main tool, since it didnt interfere with poison. But Petridart was still really good to deal with summoners and other immediate threats.
I swear when listening half asleep to your videos I heard you mention there was a secret passive ninjas have, something to do with applying status from weapons.
Like blowdarts or daggers akways apply on hit or something?
I can't find where you said it or anywhere else corroborating it, did I just have a surreal dream?
It's their Auto Spells. They apply guaranteed debuffs when they're active.
running my ninja as a silencer atm in my no incap/chariot. baldur bow +1 with bridle trivializes mage bosses
Sure does, may want to swap that for a Shortbow+2, get your guaranteed silence with a chance to stun at a faster fire rate.
Palying fft.ffta and ffta2 gives a stong preference for dual katana ninjas, can't help it! Still, so much you can get out of this class! I gotta use the envenom shortbow sometime.
14:23 can i equip more powerful bows and dagger in order to inflict poison with the ninja? do they have to be lightweight?
They can use the elemental Shortbows later to do better default damage, just remember to add Breach and Fear when possible for the wacky numbers. Has an added benefit at that point of being able to be used alongside a knife or sword for counter poison, too.
I liked the dual katana PSP build 😭
Always been curious where you pull your "poison ticks 3 times between turns" number from. I mostly see 1 tick of poison, sometimes 2 if they took a long turn. And just to confirm, this is me poisoning them. Them taking a turn. Their next turn after comes around with only 1 poison tick in between their turns. Still good, but 33% of the damage you're saying Haha
It's very unclear how long a round is. I also see a lot of units naturally recover from poison before the second tick, sometimes even before the first. It's a good status, but I feel like he over values it just a bit. 30% eventually is nice, 30% now is almost always better. DoT effects are useless if things don't live long enough for them to tick.
If using poison with silence or bind, stun is ok for this, to lock a unit down and ignore them while the bleed health and use up heals that aren't going to the front line, that can be useful. As a core strategy, it's mediocre. Now if you can hit hard and apply poison, which ninjas can do, then it's the best of both worlds.
Poison does damage ticks per RT interval so if the unit have fast RT and doing nothing you will see less poison tick but the duration still there nevertheless.
@@SakuraiLouishana yeah I know that it uses RT to do the time. My question would be how much RT passes between every poison tick. And is it constant for everyone or can it be sped up/ slowed down.
@@joshjulrich 65~70 take or not. Its has its own frame (global RT) not affected with slow or haste. so it will always hit at that interval.
Rounds vary, and the AI takes full turns. So, if you're poisoning your own unit and having them stand there, it won't tick as often. It's based off of RT ticks, and typically this means 30% per turn vs the AI.
There's a lot I would tweak with their skills to be more intuitive. Making waterwalk and ignore elevation auto-spells would go a long way to selling the theme of ninjas only having so much space to carry a bag of tricks.
Would envemon shields be too powerful?
Envenom only works on a weapon.
@@CoffeePotato that's my point. Would poison+knockback be too much? Can you even parry a shield attack?
I've heard on the grapevine that Evenescence is a bit of a fake-out in that after it goes off, the ninja gets back up. I might actually test it in the near future to see if it's true!
Hi there, grapevine here: ua-cam.com/video/5NMC9WsdtkA/v-deo.html
@@CoffeePotato Nice find! Thanks for the link!
@@briar_rose_ Glad to help, obsessively testing a game shakes cool stuff out sometimes. Also, it might well be the key to making the No Movement run possible.
Can someone tell me where the water ninjitsu spell is? The others seem to be POTD.
Pretty sure it's in there too, just not too common.
I don't understand Steel Stance. It differs from phalanx because enemies can see armor and prioritize?
Defense increases so they become a low priority target? (AI prefers high armor or low armor targets?)
1:47 &
22:18
Steelstance increases armor values, and the AI can see it. Phalanx reduces a percentage of damage, and the AI can't see it. Phalanx also applies right before the number lands, so, say they're ruptured and hit with a critical spell that reflects, the reflected target would likely get hit for some 20x the damage they would.
@@CoffeePotato very interesting. Lol, we need a PEMDAS for Tactics Ogre 😂
Thank you!
Are ninjutsu summon damage are based on the int and mnd or the atk and dex? Ninjutsu like the raven and the thundertiger.
Int, but they uniquely don't get the element bonus from the caster. This is why they are a high damage, but card dependent spell early on, but can become insane by their T2 variants.
@@CoffeePotato I see. Thx for the info bro.
@@Arean_ Glad to help!
Why does self destruct have such a high RT?
To be fair, it's not like you're going to pay it 😂
One problem with poison, once everything is poisoned, its usefulness drops considerably. I think that one dual wielding unit did more damage than all the poison in the fight. I'd have to calculate it all up, but poison didn't tick that often, things tended to die before the second tick, if not the first.
Poison is great, but removing damage from the field as fast as possible is key. Status effects like stun, petrify, and stop can do that temporarily quite nicely. Poison does 30% per round, but it requires things to survive for a round. It's also very unclear how long a round is.
A group built like this with a little of everything is not a great way to run ninjas. One line of high damage melee with a line of ranged units would likely be more ideal.
Might not die so much if healing and resurrection items were more common in the builds, no one had any.
Its more likely coffee saying 30% per poison duration. The dot ticks per of poison rt interval.
@@SakuraiLouishana Plenty of units clear poison naturally before the first tick. What that RT interval is isn't clear. It's 10% per tick, but no clear sign on when those ticks will happen, and if the unit isn't alive long enough, the ticks become irrelevant.
Poison is strong, but it should be in addition to your normal strategy, not your normal strategy.
@@gaberielpendragon i'm pretty sure its a normal strategy since in the old TO it was a very miniscule damage. Now its good enough that people use it on week 1 to beat PoTD as soon as its unlocked. Namely: ninja poison, scorpion +1. Not much investment required too.
Anyway its around 65~70 rt per tick. Poison pretty much used as counter for high penetration resistance like golem.
They never got outdated even in lategame anyway. Unless you just playing meta not normally i guess.
So I say it's 30% because while it is on ticks, it's still ticking 3 times per round, whatever the situation there. I think it works a little differently than before, because those 3 ticks are consistent. On the above, missing the point a little. Removing pieces is fine, but this is for far more than just damage. Say a boss has a healing element, and they're hiding you weaken a unit, poison it, the healers run up to heal it as a priority, they put themselves out in the open, but the unit dies anyway. It's useful for damage, sure, bit it's ability to apply pressure and manipulate situations is far more useful.
@@CoffeePotato Yea, but poisoning on a 1 damage hit is almost never as good as poisoning on a 200 or larger hit. The extra speed is nice, but it isn't 200 times faster. It also gives them time to attack back waiting for poison to kill them.
It's a nice additive strategy, but you can still use it along with an alpha damage strategy.
In your example, just hitting them brings the healers up as well. Focus fire from a well-designed team will drop any unit before healing can be applied anyways.
It's great for when you are speed running or otherwise tackling content under powered. Which I know is a lot of the content you make. Even when going at level it's useful. But if using it stops your ability to just alpha units off the board, then it's not so useful anymore.
🥷🏿
I don't understand the love for ninjas with bows. Double katana 270dmg x 2 is way better then the low bow damage. Use mage for poison cloud. That's at lvl 36 too
Speed and consistency. They have tissue thin defense without their Stance rolling. Running up and hitting looks nice at first, but you're paying RT for each swing, they're now stuck in the front, and their damage is done. At that same time, that 1 damage becomes 200-1300 per round, depending on HP, can likely get 3 shots off while standing behind a tree or something in the same time, and can spread that to more areas at once. Depends on what you want in the team, but I know I love using them to overwhelm recovery by rapid turns and DoTs melting the whole team at once. (For more context on why they have such a speed discrepancy, both swords by themselves weigh more than the Shortbow, and Double Attack gives no Swing RT discount...so they're leaving themselves super open. With enough pressure elsewhere, it can work, but those numbers are likely only going to be against certain things. )
Melee ninja without steelstance will get one shot by enemy special, therefore no good for incap run. Bow ninja to shut down bosses and spellcasters is more useful. Monkey leap ninjutsu should be aoe instead of self only. Ninjustsu focused ninja is lame due to low damage.
That's a lot of assumptions! They are low damage, but their mechanics make them insane for an Ogre Blade setup. Steelstance can be guaranteed, and everything dies to poison. They become insane to dislodge once they're running.