Know Your Unit Reborn: Cleric
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- Опубліковано 28 лют 2023
- The sustenance and insurance specialist would like to have a word about your reliance on Salves!
Audio note: I think I've solved whatever that weird pop sound was. I only hear it on one of my sets of headphones, but it should be gone for next time. Also, one day before the new computer anyhow! - Ігри
Some people here have never used a cleric with Mother's Blessing and it shows.
I kind of feel the concept of "units take turns in real time, action economy lasts more than one round" gets missed a ton. Most do, though, so that's good 😊
@@CoffeePotato I think the problem is that some people look at Tactics Ogre and apply a MMO mentality, where the idea is to hyperspecialize minmax stuff for the biggest bestest numbers, or with a XCOM alpha-strike mentality where you have to blow up units before they get to do their turns. It's a different kind of game, really.
Yep, don't slepp on those clerics! The "cleric triage" it's a good way to put it! It's never gonna be all the healing you want, but it can be just enough healing to avoid kills until you can pop some items or get some important turns done. And the fact that it's long range with Aoe variant if needed matters and without worries for line of sigth or height. Lobbers be good, sure, but they don't substitute our holy boys and girls.
Not the healer we need, but the healer we deserve.😆
Clerics: Break seal if undead are present and you lack items or they are required for side objective charms. Otherwise they stay back at camp and idk clean or something.
They cleaned up Ruins 1 at pretty much the same speed as any other class regardless.
I see a lot of people calling Clerics useless. That’s because their job is simply healing, not allow your other units to rush in and stay surrounded and survive. This is a STRATEGY game, at the end of the day. Cleric healing isn’t supposed to remove the difficulty lol
Also a while back I decided to set up my Olivya as a Cleric with the Stinky Set.
Stinky Set Cleric gets ignored while going around collecting auto skill cards for constant Meditation and Mother’s Blessing enhanced Healing when needed! Easily the best use of this set effect.
And then my Lord Denam is a Spellbook and Sword Dual Wielding, Divine element Magic Knight that has Sword Skill, Double Attack, Meditate IV, and Mother’s Blessing.
so he can do secondary healing with A Major Heal I/II/III here and there.
Ahh I just wish Princess Catuia could use Mother’s Blessing!
Came for the discussion on a divisive class, stayed because Vagrant Story music was playing.
Understandable
Knight clerics are the best.
By which I mean leveling them as knights and switching to cleric for an extra 300 hp. Then you can run around with your fast RT clerics, chugging salves if the enemy was foolish enough to focus fire on them. But make sure they aren't naked, that doesn't go over well with the police.
Absolutely solid point!
@@CoffeePotato I know right? It turns out that Valerians don't take kindly to nudists, even during war!
I did this as well but notice the Mp is a bit on low side, I level them as rune fencer not as tanky as knight but way more Mp
I rock my clerics with the MP staves. 1st turn they give my offensive units mp, 2nd turn they can give it to themselves if need be. They can act as HP or MP batteries and toss out quickens when they don't need to spot heal.
I dunno. I ran lobber & preferred cleric. God forbid you need more than 4 heals.
Quench or as it was called originally Healing Rain, is usable by Warlocks.
Any class that can use Support/Debuff spells.
Woulda been nice if they had brought back the non-dark buff and debuff spells and buffed Quench.
Funny thing is they might be in the game’s data still considering the special encounters in the Potd with that Petrifog user dual wielding daggers.
Yup, that would Hobby, he's meant to be SNES Hobyrim wit dual swords and guaranteed Petro.
Cressida thumbnail was hilarious 🤣
Truly, the best pick. 😂
She just won't stop dying!
The thumbnails remind me of River City Ransom lol. I still keep my Heal 1. It's very useful with MB.
Thanks for the upload.
I think it's because the cleric kind of looks like those guys. It's a very unsung little ability, thanks for the kind words!
I think I made one of the hardiest teams on accident in my first blind playthru.
made denam a beastmaster with lobber, filled his inventory with some heal items, had two clerics, had two knights, and the rest was dragons and gryphons.
the gryphons were simultaneously the backline harass as well as the ambulance with res stones. it was so funny on most maps during the campaign where I'd just watch as this wall of *meat* slowly ground through their forces until they either ran out of people or the gryphons actually killed the high prio target.
Optimal? heeeecck no. funny? yes. so funny. I'm glad I didn't look up any guides until finishing the game lmao. clerics definitely felt like they fell off but when my dragon had dragonscale and my knights had their damage reduction thing running... that 100-300hp heal was moooore than enough to outpace almost every damage instance.
Hey, if it works and it's fun, that's the real optimal.
Happy to see this one. Still chugging away on my cleric only run. Chapter 1 cleared, but busy with FF16.
Understandable. You can do it, last boss can be bonked pretty reliably with a cudgel one shot 👍
@@CoffeePotato Haha. Currently just trudging through training ssllloooowwwlllyyy leveling weapon for finisher. Then I can stop mass shield bop.
I will have to try sliding a cleric in some of my auto parties, maybe throw some of the low cost heal etc. and see how they do when running palace of the dead. It might not be a bad idea just because my normal units are pretty strong so loosing a front liner to a healer would not be that bad. Maybe I will have to save some of the mind charms to throw on a unique cleric. It might be kind of fun.
Yay the Clerics vid! Luv these guys, always have them in the mix! What are your thoughts on using them _without_ a weapon skill equipped? So like. Meditate/Insight/Blessing/Mercy?
It works solidly for sure, but that Caldia Parry is staying.
Perfect video to come out when I got the Tarot Card stuff from Square today I think
That stuff looked snazzy!
@@CoffeePotato I think it is anyways
Gotta say, i wasnt really thinking of the ramifications of hammer clerics with finishers being constantly fed by Meditate 😂
Bro you won't believe what I'm going to tell you the tactics ogre saturn version was translated into full english
I believe it, and can't wait to cover it, the new Thinky Brick just arrived today.
One advantage of leaving Clerics on AI is that the AI loves to pre-emptively heal, a lot. I think a lot of players (myself included) don't really heal until a unit loses a good chunk of health. In that case yes mending items are better, but a cleric healing in the background for multiple rounds while not exciting might be just as valuable. If not more, considering that it might just allow you to use your frontline to attack instead of having to spend a round to heal.
True, they're usually better left on AI unless the player has learned to prioritize.
To me this is what lobber-gang misses. Getting topped off when you take 25% in damage can make the difference in requiring 1 or 2 more follow up attacks to incap that character, and being able to do that as AOE is not something items can do either.
Because clerics are super duper fast, they are the very best at reviving as long as MP is available. Also Quicken is an underrated skill.
Plus, everything needs to be exorcised in POTD.
@@CoffeePotato Exactly. And by prioritize, you likely mean minimalizing movement for RT recovery. The AI will just randomly, needlessly move around when it doesn't need to (and sometimes into stupid things like poison tiles or closer to a threatening enemy regardless of the AI setting), making it take longer for it's next turn.
I miss the spell "Heal Rain" that witches and wizards could use. I'm guessing they took it out because it was too OP.
They also probably thought it was redundant with how insane Replenishment is.
I use Clerics as defuff and RT reducing specialists. Equipped with Mage Staffs for instant 100 MP and Winged Boots for unlimited mobility and they exorcise, resurrect, and debuff all over the battlefield. I DO NOT use Clerics for healing when it's much easier to just equip everyone with Mending Essences.
Whatever works is good! Personally, I will always love the savings. Monetary gain is spiritual gain, or something 😂
So Cleric is a Nurse more so than a Doctor 😊
I think no matter how they are glorified, their cudgel damage is always going to be lower than a dedicated damage-dealing or even tanky unit, their lack of mp sustain via staves is a major hindrance, they have the defense of a paper airplane, and their healing is out-performed by every character able to act as their own pocket-medic via salves (with one exception: Major Heal III on Mother's Blessing proc is actually really nice to have). However, I still brought one with me through the entirety of POTD for the charm bonuses, and found that their best use is just as exorcism and ease bots, and otherwise just acted as backup charmers. While princess can do all of those things drastically better, at least it made the cleric a contribution to the team.
If only they were given lobbers, they'd actually be pretty fantastic.
I would hope so, they're doctors, not engineers 🤣
I mostly use clerics mostly for ease swift of boon and for undead. The healing is more or less something to do in emergency or when they have nothing else to do. I may run different comps over multiple play throughs but I almost always run 1 cleric. Early palace of the dead runs you will get more out of 2 clerics instead of using the exorcism items. The reason clerics get dumped on is because of full hp restore items and valkyries are objectively better aside from stilled undead.
Valks definitely have more utility in general, but I wouldn't call them the same role. Area heals and being a dedicated speed bandaid is hard to replace.
Clerics are only bad if you look at the numbers exclusively while ignoring their tactical element.
1. Due to the level design. It is rare you will be dealing with 12v14s. Unlike the enemy, your units do not start spread out throughout the entire map. Oftentimes, enemies will trickle down to you, with some enemies not acting until a few "turns".
2. The Cleric as stated in the video, is about doing whatever is needed. Need poison? Speed up your wizard/warlock! One of your melee dudes suddenly found themselves with a lot of MP? You know what to do! Did you get CC'd? There is ease. Did your knight take heavy damage, and your mother's blessing just proc? Well, that heal can pay off in dividends, considering phalanx.
In my 0 incap run, the clerics were essential to my strategy, because they would counter any attrition my army faced. Items would be used when units are dying. My 2 clerics were equipped with Heal 1, 3/4, Major Heal and Boon of Swiftness, the other was Heal 1, Heal 3/4, Major Heal and Ease. Possibly replacing Major heal with exorcism on undead maps.
But Mr. Potato, why does my cleric Denam dual wielding shields with only the Resurrect 2 spell not pull his weight??
Just teasing, but it's fun to watch a team of clerics do so well =] This feels like that fight on lawful with all the healers.
Oh man, that needs to be a run at some point
Cleric challenge only when?
Yes
Clerics are only useful if the abilities like meditate and mothers blessing proc…but if not they are completely useless. So you definitely need to pick up at least two skill cards and then they work just fine, if you speed them up 😄👍🏻
Seemed to do fine here.
@@CoffeePotatoll
Way late to the commentary game but I typically use Mending Salve (not +1). Most of the time 50% hp is all I need and that's 10 less RT than +1 and only 1 more RT than Heal III while doing way more healing than Heal III without Mother's Blessing for the 2nd half of the game and beyond.
Depends on what's being used. Major 2 by itself is basically a party wide 450 if using props and powder, which will be a lot more sustainable on damage mitigation focussed parties. RT is RT, but healing in more places without extra costs (unless using the cheap powder buff) is it's own reward. I like to save the salves for emergencies or heavies, personally.
WHAT!?!
NO MONK BUILD!?!
Was that the last time your wife let you watch TV with her?
Mrs. Potato: You should come watch doctor shows with me.
CP: Ah, this is just like Clerics, how they-
Mrs. Potato: Get out...😑👉
😆
Nah, we usually watch together every night. It's more like
Mrs Potato: Stop doing stuff and sit down. The rest can wait for tomorrow.
Potato: Yes ma'am! But what can I bring you?
Mrs Potato: I got everything, sit down.
Potato: *Puts away all other various devices, sits down with Switch to set up for video tomorrow*
Lobber > clerics
....until 3 rounds in when it turns out something twice as fast is better than nothing at all, or something eventually.
@@CoffeePotato what 3 rounds? So you use 2 healing items on round 1, get bruised on round 2, critically wounded on 3 and KOed on 4? Are we playing the same game. Literally the only content i haven't done without a healer were a few story boses, zombie stages previous to exorcism items and magnificent 12,without farming charms or maxing relics. So that'll be 90 something percent of the game. Clerics are a implementation mistake. Period.
@@danielrenemauriciomontielp3688 That's certainly a take.
Anyhow, no, it you're using a Lobber as your primarily healing source, they can, at max, do so 4 times. A fencer could do it infinitely, but has better things to do, a knight would do it slowly, and a Faerie has the Fencer problem. Even still, we're comparing spending tons of money per round to free right now. To reiterate, my point isn't that one number is bigger than the other. My point is that while not using the infinite money exploit, items are better utilized as an energy self heal. The point of the cleric is to deliver just enough to make it by to several locations at long range. They have a big heal, but that's not their best feature. A PC is more powerful than a PSP, but you need a wall, a budget, and would like a jackass bringing it to game night. PSP you need $30 and a pocket. You know what I mean?
@@CoffeePotato You dont need inf money to get very rich in this game, just a single run of phorampa was around 500k goth I personally never used the gltich and never had money problems.
IMO Heals (the single target spell) suck, single target heals suck at almost every stage of the game maybe except heal IV and only for beasts or crazy HP buffed units (that you can lobber as well). This game has too much burst for things like single target low hp heal spells being used as "sustenance" to work, renewal is much better at that since it works passively in the background after one turn use (another shoutout at songsgress being top tier). The amount of times i used heal on a low HP unit to only have it die anyways because the heal was not enough was way too many. IMO each turn is too important. Lobber is straight up superior as a single target healing method
HOWEVER AOE heal is still very good, now that is sustenance. 5 units each recovering 300 hp is actually very nice when enemies do aoe attacks, those feel really worth it. Either way clerics are still very nice units because having a dedicated boon and ease spammer can be very useful. having a great unit being permanently speed boosted is good enough to allow clerics to not be a waste of a spot in a party. I kept Olyvia as a cleric since I got her all the way to coda4 and she has always been great.
Lobber isn't always superior. You're overlooking something I've been mentioning all video.
Heal doesn't take inventory slots. Items are good for emergencies, but have very limited uses for longer fights.
Units aren't just taking one turn and going home. Their turns all flow together, meaning those two long range heals that saved two units from being KOd are often going to be more valuable than the theoretical bigger healing that never got applied to the guys on the floor because it never got to them on time, or there was a wall in the way, or only heal 3-4 were brought.
Imo both are good to consider. But even then healing done by clerics can be competently replaced by other units such as valkyries, familiars, and catuia iirc. They also have more options. Regardless if you play well you should only really need items for healing if nothing goes wrong. Similar thing for boons with valks, familiars, and gear if you grind enough.
Using cleric or not in the end is more of a map and team composition dependent to me.
@@CoffeePotato I think the game has too much burst for a low heal to be useful for a turn, and personally I never had any fight in the entire game that was long enough that I actually ran out of items in my units. I think there is a place for single target heals, but I also think its safe to completely ignore them and play the game as if they don't exist, that's how I did it anyways. Even CODA4 with just 3 units was not long enough I ran out of healing items and had to fall back to heals.
Also in my fights low aoe heals ended up being significantly more useful then single target ones. I stopped running single target heal in ch2 and everytime i tried it afterwards I felt wrong after a fight and just kept aoe healing + using lobber instead. Spell slots are limited as well, only 4. I love boon and ease, you need exorcism in a lot of stages, that 1 left. in stages without undead that's 2 left. I prefer being aoe heals over single target one.
Lol at the cleric being better at healing then items, even songtress is a much better healer then cleric will ever be and sanat sucks when compared to items.
The fact that you can have healing that scales with your hp, very available in shops just makes cleric bad by comparison.
Another point would you rather use 13 RT to heal 300 or use 30 RT to heal 75% hp of your con 2 melee fighters in endgame(2000 hp equals 1500hp heal).
That is not even hard, this is the problem when too much focus is put on RT, in this game very few things you need to worry about RT to use properly, I did not even know the RT values of most spells, lol.
But aside from RT, just simple math shows that cleric as a healer is weak and running out of items never happened to me, I try to use as few items as possible(because items are op in this game when used properly).
The saving grace of cleric is that when you consider AI, because songtress is useless with it, the cleric becomes more appealing, but the difference in party power between the AI and an experienced player is massive, so never put clerics on AI if you want the best healer with mothers blessing.
Mistakes are part of the process to get that reborn experience under your belt.
OK, but I think you may have missed...almost every point I was trying to make here.
It's not a 1-1. One is a burst heal with no range, is consumable, and expensive, if we're assuming for not using exploits. The other is a long range trickle that's everywhere at once, but can pivot into a burst heal...plus doesn't get consumed on use. Clerics are there to save several units from being knocked out for now, until they can be fully patched, or infinitely reraising units, or using their scaled heal for those bigger numbers, You run out of gatorade, that's it. It's consumable.
@@CoffeePotato why not full heal a unit that is at 40% or less hp. And for low hp healing renewal destroy clerics, it is not even close. I limit myself to 50 % items and use only when necessary, but cleric healing is super bad, specially with con 2 humanoid melee units.
Also heal 4 without mb is 25% hp, that is way too low. Major heal 3 is good with squishies, but horrible with frontline units. Also I consider healing without mb in play, mb is fine, if it was a support skill always on for cleric, the class would be much better because heal 4 would be 50% always just like items. Those 75% and 100% items are op in my opinion, specially with how effective baiting is in the game(ai do not debuff properly).
But if you are using AI, cleric is OK because songtress is terrible with it and the AI needs that extra healing besides items. It is not that cleric is useless, it is just their underwhelming healing.
But I agree it is not 1 on 1, it just that cleric healing without mb is so low that it cannot compete with percentage healing, may that healing be renewal or items and the more hp your units get, the worse your cleric will be at healing.