Does the Muay Thai Clinch Work in BJJ
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
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The can opener is a great move that you should not replace. Just understand it can't be used in certain competitions but in mma and self defense purposes where you happen to find yourself in someone's guard their is no reason not to use it as it is probably better than some if not all bjj techniques. Real wrestling is the best.
I love your bullshit joking boast, humble brags.
You're knee dig move could be used to transfer into a triangle, if they move knee side, if they go to move around the open leg, you could use the high knee leg, to wrap around back transfer if they are low, while clearing the arm or try to stand if high. A good move to push a stalemate basically.
Monkeygrip is great, and you can flipflop your hands to push down on shoulders to create space for knees without totally disengaging your hands from clinch, or having to force by pinching, your just wrestling the bull by the horns.
Nice dome/outside monkeygrip clinch choke to finish.' Lol
I feel honored to be recognized as one of the six Jiu jitsu guys that watch your channel.
Same here, where are the other 4?
@@atticusfinch3536 right here
@@atticusfinch3536 Also here
Hey guys
@@EmJayEss Number 6 here
You guys are quite hilarious together. “So put all my eggs in one basket” “if that’s what you heard” his face when you say “you’re a big pain compliance guy…”
Eli is here to teach you something. I'm here to mess with Eli.
@@hard2hurt lmao
@@hard2hurt the perfect storm. Well done sir.
I love how after explaining to not put all your eggs in one basket, you make the joke of it’s ok to put all your eggs and one basket and he agrees hahaha
He just says whatever will shut me up... or he tries to anyway
@@hard2hurt figures that out, he'll have one hell of a video.
@@hard2hurt I don't think shutting you up is an option, ever. ;-)
@@hard2hurt that was some Bugs Bunny level verbal sparring
if ur better longterm, always specialize/penetration strategys(ansoff matrix) of self development application includes combat/tactical. spreading ur eggs to thin gives u diminished via missed returns on life payoff. dont get put on the cross mike, cant save them all, and theres only a chance we save ourselves. comes from nondiversification for deeper penetration of results.
Mike- "hey do you think this would annoy you for a cpl seconds?"
Trained killer - " sure buddy"
Mike - " woooooo yeah"
Success!
The good thing about using the Gable grip for the clinch is that you can still hold your tactical flashlight
Please... if I had a tactical flashlight I wouldn't even need to grapple.
@@hard2hurt "Bro if you tried to do that to me, I would just blind you with my flashlight."
@@dawnkeyy No, he uses the lithium ion battery inside to set the opponent on fire
Twenty years ago I was using the can opener to open guard all the time. I had a series of passes I could use off of it. Now it's pretty much not allowed (though I still occasionally use it in the gym against big guys). Allegedly the downfall of the can opener happened when Jeff Monson used it to submit Marcio Pe dePano in 2004.
Lol like it isn't cool anymore because it went mainstream?
LOLOL his face when you were saying “so you’re a big pain compliance guy” 😂 almost snarfed my drink
Wow, I love how you did your hands on the Muay Thai clinch, it's better than what I've been doing. I'm gonna do it your way from now on.
Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu did a whole seminar on the clinch she put on youtube where she taught that grip and a bunch of other Thai clinch techniques. You should check it out!
@@KhaosTy Thanks!
Specifically in the closed guard, YES! It's called a can-opener in jiujitsu, and you use it the exact same way; pressuring with your forearms against their shoulders to perform a neck crank and force the legs open.
I think what Eli was trying ro get at was: that clinch is a decent transitionary move, but not one you or your training partners want to spend a lot of time in or practicing. In jiu jitsu there's a lot of "proper" moves that everyone learns how to perform and defend against early on and then even more "improper" moves you can throw out quickly to confuse your opponent and make them do the wrong thing so they'll actually give you an opening for the "proper" submissions that they'd normally defend.
P.S. to open the guard there's a move called "the logsplitter" which works well when combined with the "just stand up"
Who knows what eli was trying to get at? I was trying as hard as i could to stop him
Hard to Hurt
I want to thank u for your inspiration and advice in training in something more local. After 6 years of no training I am now back, learning Gracie Jiu-jitsu at a semi local academy.
We don't allow neck cranks at my club either. At least not in live rolls. They just cause too many acute and chronic injuries. We do drill them, but we just don't allow them when we're sparring.
Same here, my gym also doesn't allow people to jump guard in sparring because it's cheap and can cause injuries
@@blackwingdragonmasta yeah, i have seen one too many injuries from jumping guard pulls.
@@jestfullgremblim8002 yeah it's a stupid tactic because either you get slammed or you're abusing the rules it's shit
@@blackwingdragonmasta Yep no guard jumping, no neck cranks, restrictions on kani basami and tani otoshi, no heel hooks below blue belt. Basically if it can mess up your partner's neck or knees, we don't do it in live rolls (or at least until one is competent and no longer the King of Spazakstan, in some of those cases lol).
Its called rolling not sparring
I learned some sh/t from this! I think I’m gonna try to catch a seminar soon. I learn so much from this channel and laugh a good bit at the same time.
That's our goal! Be warned though, the seminars are real classes with real training and hard work... also the laughs.
4:14 the way he shakes his head and your reaction lol 😂 😂 😂 😂
Yes, yes it does. I can't wait to see my ICY BRO explain why.
I love how much we are all paying attention to you explain your moves for jiu jitsu
I feel like we figured it all out in these videos.
We win martial arts.
This video was all over the place but so entertaining. I enjoy both your channel very much!
I mean, it has to
Wait, there will be a Judo instructor? Oh God, yes!
I have been using the Thai clinch in my takedown game for the last 6 years and it is crazy how well it works, but crazier how much grapplers don’t really use it or know how to defend it (I’m talking about F2W quality opponents in the Purple and lower divisions). I love spamming the crap out of it because it fatigues them after only a few minutes
As a blue belt i can also confirm that many people freeze up and dont know how to react to this move when i constantly use it......until i grapple with someone who also has muay thai/kickboxing Experience then it just turns into a clinch battle lol
Weapon X Clinch has just entered my vocabulary
Pretty badass right?
I don't know anything about what's going on in this video, or many of the others since I'm not a martial artist, but Icy Mike still makes them interesting somehow.
Appreciate you greatly homie
Thank you I’ve been asking this question for the last two years!!!
Yeah the people at the pet store are very confused.
I'm the only one that does MT at my BJJ gym and I use the clinch a lot to sling people around, especially starting rolls from the knees. I also say oooweee while doing it.
lol at starting from the knees
HAHAHA it's not real MT without the oowee
Just took an Awesome impromptu Jujitsu class with Eli. What a humble warrior as well as patient and helpful instructor!
You have earned my utmost respect 👊👊💥.
Absolutely it can work! Most people at my gym and at other open mats usually have a hard time getting out of it or dont know how to react to it😂 it's definitely my favorite move
I like how you flowed from one technique and concept in conversational way, it was like two classes at once lol (which is great because from a fighting/mma perspective techniques from each style will bleed into/effects the other)
The fact that it didn't make sense barely registered!
I don't know s4!t about Muay Thai, but the gable grip is how I clinch because that's how my wrestling coach taught it... And now Icy Mike and Eli Knight say it's good so I'm like an expert right? Great stuff as always guys!
You're a black belt in youtube martial arts now.
@@hard2hurt yes! I've been working on it for years! I'm gonna say I trained under you in all future comments.
The way you do the muay thai clinch is awesome! Probably the reason the 'correct' way to do it evolved is purely because of the gloves.
According to random guys in the comments it's wrong and never works and nobody does it that way.
I competed in judo for years and also have some beginner level experiences in muay thai including regular sparrings. Here's how I see it: having your opponent's had trapped in a proper muay thai clinch is a very dominant position that gives you high chance to hurt him badly under any of these fighting rules (his vision is blocked and his spine is compelled to a distorted position at the neck that severely decreases his ability to move): In MMA type of fights/sparrings with less srict rules there can be two problems: (1) if you start a fight and the only thing you know from clinching distance is a muay thai clinch, then you will be all about getting the opponents neck and you will leave your waist and legs exposed for jitsu/ judo/wrestling type of counterattacks. And an opponent with such experience will ragdoll you easily to the floor. (2) If you got the clinch fixed and you narrow mindedly use this position only to start bombing your knees (and the first knee would happen not to be a KO ;-) ) than you will be again in trouble. Because if judo/jitsu..etc. techniques are allowed throwing repeated knees from a clinch is not the wise thing to do. You will be down on the ground soon where grappling will decide who wins.
I actually like that grip for wrestling, good shit Mike
The good old can opener. It won't submit anyone with experience, but it can be a sound technique to open the guard so you can pass to half guard or side control. Love it.
You would be surprised at who you can submit with this.
@@hard2hurt That's fair. It's like the ankle lock you can get when someone crosses their legs after taking your back. It definitely doesn't feel good. Anyway, thanks for the great content!
I love your improvisational ones :)
A couple guys on a mat discussing and trading technique might be one of my favorite parts of martial arts training
I love how Eli added in that yank while he had you wrapped up, as if to say "this is for all the shit you gave me, throughout the video"
nice, please more BJJ clips, I just started after watching your channel for a couple months. I thought I wanted to be a boxer but it made me exposed to it. I'm doing a trial right now and am going to choose one soon. I'll probably do their one boxing class on the weekend with it
BJJ you will love it. Much more practical in RL.
I still box fit at home tho for reflex / fun
Hi Mike hope you don't mind me messaging you, you can do your Thai clinch against the cage and turn it into a choke by putting 1 of your forearms to the side also on the ground in side mount. Do your can opener opponent opens up tries to go left or right your into side mount from there move your forearm onto his neck while keeping the Thai clinch. You can use your Thai clinch to submit people with this choke from side mount from your opponent in half guard. Gable grip forearm to the side absolutely lethal gets fast taps. I feel why learn from scratch when you can work your muay Thai skills and other skills to help each other
Ya humor so elite 😭 I love it so much ! 🤣
You were like 90% to a gogoplata. I can’t do it…but I’m as flexible as a 2X4.
Sincerely BJJ guy #4
As someone who has done MT but zero wrestling or BJJ, this has given me hope lol. Im going to be starting at a BJJ school soon and i feel like I'm gonna suck ass slightly less having watched this.
Instead of getting instantly taken down, passed and submitted... you will have three seconds before you are taken down, passed and submitted
Most people suck ass at first. Don't have high expectations. You're there to learn first
I've been doing BJJ for six years and I still suck ass when rolling with some of my partners. It's ok and nobody cares. Just enjoy learning your Jiu Jitsu and avoid injuries.
the can opener the first submission ever
Like the oldest profession
6:39 That was so romantic. Eli is such a slick one.
always love videos that show position similarities between styles.
"8 of them will be awesome, one of them will be me"
So SUPER awesome, got it 💪🏾
Every technique works anywhere along as you are good at it
I thought that was Cowboy for a second. Eli's voice even sounds a bit like Cerrone.
Me too hahahahaha
I'd love to see you do a Collab with someone that actually knows how to use a karambit. I think you'd be surprised by it.
Love the content
Appreciate the content Mike :)
Anderson Silva taught this at a seminar in SD and I’ve been using the gable grip since then. He showed it as a way to counter a Russian tie.
Impossible. Comment section randos have assured me it's not the correct way to grip in the clinch.
Lots of good stuff for the grabby boys in this one
Yuck.
It may not be often, but I use the can opener. Usually, once I get the hand position, I worry more about the elbows to the chest to create pressure there. Then I use all wrist to slowly bring the crank on the neck. There's been a time when I had to calm someone the hell down, and I brought the pain, but that's only been once. Stack them, then drop down and crank. Definitely not a go to move. Very rare.
That's good shit right there💩👍 Marines are tought to do the underhand/overhand for holds and strike set-ups aswell😉 I personally think Mike was just feeling huggy though when he made this🫂🥊😅
Eli Knight and Icy Mike would be great in a buddy cop movie
My go to is to stand up, to break the guard, gi or no gi. Of course there are more details than simply standing up. But I think a good closed guard player should still drill and learn to deal with can-openers and similar attacks.
This looks pretty similar to some catch wrestling stuff. And their thought is that you SHOULD create pain when you can because it's a good way to control ppl or throw them off
Yes I train jiu jitsu but my coach was a wrestler before he ever did jiu jitsu so we actually learn a little catch wrestling, the way he put it is don’t rely on pain because you may run into someone really tough who just doesn’t care but at the same time if you can make them suffer in ever position you’re disturbing their thought process of counter attacking.
Doing a can opener slow and gentle just doesn’t happen actual reality A lot of the time Especially lower belts who actually don’t know how to apply it correctly or gently.
And I’ll be quite honest with you if someone was consistently doing a can opener to me and threatening neck crank On the regular, I’m not gonna be training with that person all that often.
I mean look, If you’re going into MMA fight or some type of grappling event with very little rules. Cool Go for it.
But the regular training Where you have doctors lawyers and other professionals training BJJ. No bro don’t do it. Otherwise you’ll be training by yourself.
Yeah I think its that our training context is almost exclusively mma or self defense so I'm not getting enough rolls in
I think it all boils down to who is applying it and how. If someone was constantly doing a can opener in our gym without any consideration of their opponent then I think that someone would be getting a knee opener or ankle opener in return and be walking funny for a month or two. That said, if it applied slowly and with consideration of the partner’s ability to tap then it is perfectly legit.
It absolutely does work. I used it in full guard to disrupt the posture
Golden nugget there right at the end - wow!
I hide them at the end for the real ones!
As one of the 6 jiujitsu players watching this I immediately wanted to try that ‘submission’
Mike: So tell us why this does or doesn't work
Guest Instructor: Well first off.....
Mike: OK let me talk about something totally different
Uh yeah that's how this works.
The neck crank is actually quite an easy move to defend although it certainly works and always needs to be considered from a defensive point of view. The reason it is somewhat avoided is that it is a too easy way for a complete newbie to seriously damage another newbie. It would be equivalent to allowing full non protected downward elbows to the frontal lobe in first day Muay Thai practice. Typical beginner moves that look cool but cause a lot of unnecessary damage to people who are only beginning in the sport/art. It cannot always be about the attacker, we have to consider the receiver in all martial arts.
that is pretty cool and funny- the battle of the clinches :)
dieselnoi clinched like you do with the grip and he was the best ever at that clinch
Impossible. A random guy in the comments told me it's not the right way and I have to cuff the back of their head.
Very interesting approach
When I can't pass someone's closed guard, bicep rides and the plum is what I do to get them to be hand fight me, instead of setting up submissions. Sometimes I do get caught, but I was probably gonna get caught anyway if I had trouble passing in the first place.
Eli looks like Donald Cerrone. Almost thought that was actually Cerrone for a second in the beginning.
I almost got choked out by with a thai clinch on the ground by my BJJ/Muay Thai instructor. He would squeeze his knees against his elbows from bottom position and the pressure from his forearms would cause a blood choke. Probably not going to get a submission against someone who's competent on the ground but it could create an opening to get a better position because if they dont address the choke pretty quickly they're going to sleep. It puts a ton of pressure on the sides of your neck. I'm sure it has an official name but IDK what it is and hes the only guy Ive ever seen do it.
Mike says csn opener and I PTSD back to when my Sambo instructor "showed me" second week of training how to completely rip out my lats, traps and lengthen my spine with 4 inches.
I couldn't move my neck for 2 months and whenever I go swimming my right shoulder goes "pop" with every stroke. Can opener...you can do it...and it's a dick move. 🤣
And no, breaking your jaw isn't the worst thing. Pulling off a Mortal Kombat fatality and ripping out the spine is "the worst thing"
Damnit Nikolaj!!!! 😂
Muay Thai Clinch AND Greco Roman Clinch work good for BJJ. Is there any discipline that soley focuses on no gi grappling control of the upperbody specifically other than Greco Roman Wrestling to the extent of Greco Roman Wrestling? I don't think so. Having the upper hand in upperbody manipulation is profound in the application of Jiujitsu.
Hi Icy Mike -- sorry to hijack this video with an unrelated question -- but I was wondering what your thoughts were on the practicality of bagua zhang for self-defense? Full disclosure, I've been practicing for a few years now, but haven't had a need to use it so far in a real world defensive situation - just sparring and practice. Thanks!
I'm not really familiar with it other than a couple of talks with Sergio. It is most likely similar to all martial arts that have not found mainstream success, which I measure by heavy representation in modern combat sports or documented instances of real life use. They are all better than nothing to varying degrees, but not as useful as the big 4: boxing, jiu-jitsu, wrestling and kickboxing (including muay thai). People will often assert that the lesser known martial arts are just as, if not more, effective... but there's no evidence to suggest that is true other than people's feelings and theories.
@@hard2hurt Thanks - I appreciate your insight. Enjoying your videos, and I'm learning quite a bit.
maybe next year. id have to save up for the 400 ticket plus hotel!! I'm saving up now
He said the opposite about the eggs in the basket 😂😂😂 I love muay Thai Clinch and do BJJ btw
Bump hips when in the clinch. When you sprawl hips away like that Of Course the Bjj guy has the advantage
That can opener move seems really Effective I wonder why UFC guys don’t use it
I don't have a problem with people doing a can opener on me as long as they're smaller, weaker, and worse at jiu-jitsu than me, so I wouldn't be mad at Mike for doing it. Just know the rest of the round is going to be spent with me doing the knee-on-face Kimura position and if I get the back I'm not going to fight the hands and I'll go straight to the face crush
Oh damn, I'm one of the six! 😂
Occipital ridge.
Cool. Good word.
10:56 So who's that "Andersen Silas" guy, Icy Mike? Another friend of Sensei Seth?
(Yes, I'm kidding.)
Shout out to the can opener.
"Get in my guard bro"
I see what you did there at the very end 😂
So in this concept, striker in general is a dirty fighter. because all striking moves lead to make the opponent unconscious and can be pounded freely until ko
The way you do the clinch grip is the way I do it too, And I do it this way because I have a poster of Karuhat Sor Supawan doing it .
So people who say it's not correct, check Karuhat and go tell him he's not doing it properly.
No there's totally only one way to do it. I've been training for 8 months with one instructor and that's not how we do it so it's wrong.
@@hard2hurt I think some future readers of this comment might need to see you wave an actual sarcasm-flag 😂
Of course, it works.
Mike sounding more condescending than usual lol
In the Thai clinch I’ve found I’m usually not able to “lock in” anyway, normally I’m pretty satisfied with mostly clenched and throwing knees or over one side and under on the other.
Mike, do you find yourself using the lock when your tired or do you go for it early?
My gym doesn't teach the can opener I'm gonna try that and see what happens
Thanks Mike 😀 don't normally get bjj stuff from your channel
They don't teach it because it's not allowed in a bunch of competitions and all the bottom person has to do is open their legs to alleviate the pressure
Well the first thing that will happen is they will open their guard. The second thing that happens is they will try and fail to armbar you. The third thing that happens is they start talking about you behind your back.
question, what about the muay thai clinch from standup in bjj? I watched one of ur videos on the muay thai clinch and I just found myself getting it off the collar tie alot, I was able to break their posture and i tried to go for like some baity snapdown thing,, didnt work to well but i was wondering if there was any setups/takedowns possible from the muay thai clinch
I wanted to make this work for my BJJ. But I always forget. I'm still new at cross training MMA & BJJ. Actually I have less than 18 months experience in either.
2:56
"the most effective and efficient use for striking on the ground is to advance position" LMAO! Only if you aren't in a position to knock someone out I guess, otherwise there's no need to further advance position if you're in a position where you can knock someone out.
I tried to control someone in the standup with the muay thai clinch and my opponent immediately hit me with a basic hip throw
Must have been a loose clinch because if you break their posture they can't throw you.
As a karate instructor I found white belts with no sparing experience are more likely to kick you in the nuts lol... we don't do that here.
I think Mike might have gotten his head squeezed a liiittle too hard on this one...😆
I've been watching king of the streets and as you know dude, absolutely no amount of sparring trains a person for the moment that a real street fight kicks off. respect dude👍💪
I always find it weird that some comps ban things like a can opener.
Didn’t even recognize him without the long hair 😂
Could he do a no-gi baseball bat choke if he altered the grip on that clinch?
Jk just heard him say it
No reason to attempt to damage the cervical spine of your training partners. Neck cranks and can opener are not ok
everyone knows the most tactical way to apply the clinch is by having two kubatons, one on each hand, and interlinking them