What if the germans managed (by some unnamed miracle) to capture the whole french fleet? How would that influence the war, especially the Mediterranean theater? Would the italians get some of french ships in this scenario?
Please discuss how navy ships in general, deal with their sewage. Especially in WWII. It's a subject area that is never brought up other than "sinking" some portions of refuse so as not to identify a ship. Did trash, sewage, waste, go directly in to the sea? Was it accumulated and then dumped? Etc.
Would this "last cruiser gun duel" even bode well for the british navy? Autoloading 6inch guns are a sight to behold but I dont think the Tigers would fare well against the Belgrano. The Belgrano , a Brooklyn Class had 15 barrels and twice the belt armor. I think that if engaged even by 2 Tigers, the Tigers would end up at the bottom. Which would be a major blow to the reputation of the british navy if such a minor assailant as argentina sunk 1-2 british cruisers in a gun duel. What are your thoughts on Belgrano vs Tiger. No airforce, no submarines just a straight surface action.
Could you explain a little about ship-borne radar and its evolution. more specifically how this affect the ability to detect other vessels. How much did different navys rely on radar for spotting during World War II and up to the cold war and how was the float plane affected. Thanks Best regards Billy :)
I served on Blake in 1975. 'Snakey Blakey' as she was known, had an odd steering tendency after the refit to put the hanger on. Hence the nickname. The rush to get missile armed ships ignored the tremendous advances in the gunnery world. Throughout their service these ships actually carried the most potent AA in the fleet allbeit much reduced from the original config. They were designed to put up a barrage of 800 shells per minute- accurately. They had issues on Tiger, which had hydraulic turrets, but Blake had all electric [I still have a 3" shell casing by my back door] systems and did not have the jamming issues. When under test the 3" guns out performed any missile system in service except the Sea Dart which had a longer range anyway. But medium and short range, all altitudes the test bed ships reported near 100% hits within the first few rounds with 3". I have no data for the sixers in that regard. Whereas the seacats, if they launched, usually managed a few spirals then a plop into the sea. So jumping for missiles over guns was not based on effectiveness, just status. Had she made it to the Falklands as I did, the issue of low flying Argentine aircraft would have been short lived, they would have stayed well away from her or have had much shorter missions.
Until the USN's Aegis system came into service SAM missile systems were very vulnerable to saturation, whereas gun-armed ships could service targets much faster and were much less likely to have their weapons saturated. It took a surprising length of time for the effective reach of SAMs to be more than that of heavy AA guns too. As you say, SAM missiles were more about status for quite some time.
@@BarrettL1970 She was designed to throw a radar directed barrage of up to 800 heavy rounds per minute. During the trials they never used up their allocated ammo.
When Drach began reciting the ships names, Lion... Tiger... I was guessing which other big cat the third ship would be, perhaps Leopard? or Jaguar? or Puma? ... then he said Blake of all things. I realized just how inconsistent and unpredictable Royal Navy ship naming actually is.
For those questioning why Blake? Blake was the head of the Royal Navy during the Commonwealth and responsible for increasing the size of the fleet tenfold as well as transitioning it from a force that only put to sea during the fair weather months to a force that put to sea all year round. He also invented the Single Line of Battle formation.
I love the look of this class as gun cruisers.The hangar and flight deck spoiled their looks in many peoples views,they also caused a lot of structural issues.Not for nothing was Blakes nickname,"The Snakey Blakey", I am lucky to have seen all three of this class,although I never served on any of them. As a boy living on the St Beaudaux naval estate you could look down at the dockyard.Lion was laid up along side the depot ships Adamant and Tyne, then part of Devonport fleet maintenance base which was known as HMS Orion in those days. The Tiger was laid up in Fareham creek, Portsmouth for several years,but I remember her in the dockyard,( Portsmouth ), just before the Falklands war with the Bullwark. I was in Nelson barracks as part of the barrack guard when Blake paid off,and saw her along side at the time,although she went to Chatham to be laid up.Sorry if I've bored you with my ramblings, but these ships bring back fond memories.
Seconded ! And while the boss is at it, he can as well do the Vosper, BPB and Thornycroft MTBs/MGBs and of course my favourites, the German S-Boote (is there a better looking and performing thing ? of course not ...). Don't we forget the Italian MAS and I've heard the Americans also did one or two PTs (some fancy gun and rocket additions on these, as one might expect ...). I also have a soft spot for certain Russian boats - the cute little Tupolev G-5 comes to my mind.
Motion thirded. The duel between one of the ML's and a German Destroyer ("torpedo boat" Jaguar) is legendary. The Germans were somewhat stunned by how much resistance one little boat could give, as their deminuative opponent only surrendered after being boarded, running out of ammunition, and several prior offers to surrender.
The Airfix one (1/600th scale, pre-conversion) is rare as hen's teeth and goes for collectors' money these days. However Revell bought the moulds for the Matchbox one (1/700th scale, post-conversion) and have put it out at regular intervals, so it's very available. I've got three in the stash...;-) I believe there was also a FROG one in 1/500th scale(?) but good luck finding one of those...
@@MrHws5mp If you are up for it, there's the MT Models 1/700 Tiger / Lion and Blake / Tiger configurations - and someone (can't remember who) does 3D print stuff to back-convert the Matchbox etc version to all-gun. Cost you plenty, though. ps For some reason not vouchsafed to the humble modeller, the Frog (later Novo) Tiger was 1/415 so didn't fit with 1/500 Torquay and Undine.
I have memory of the last 2 ships laid up in reserve in Portsmouth in the late 1970's, early 80's. Even after the helicopter conversion they were still impressive ships.
It always amazes me how many of the late WWII and just post-WWII ships lasted into the 80's before being broken up. Thanks for the great run-down on a worthy ship!
It was unfortunate they did as the large number of incomplete or barely used cruisers, destroyers and aircraft carriers laid up in reserve at the end of WW2 meant the political pressure to rebuild those hulls in the USA/UK in the mid and late 1950s was often overwhelming, where the long terms interests of the USN/NATO for modern sustainable warships with decent living should have meant the end of legacy reconstructions by 1955. In other words instead of completing Ark Royal, Hermes and Victorious reconstruction two new 35,00O ton carriers should have been built in 1956-1963 and the Tiger class should have been scrapped when they were suspended in.1944. Three new 7OOO ton RN cruisers with 4 twin 5/54 manual semi auto S fitted to De Grasse, Midway and Roosevelt would have been sensible.
They would have looked **sick** as secondary battery guns on some 1950s British supercruiser design. I can imagine a diminutive of the Vanguard class battleships, with something like 9'' or 10'' main battery and two of those 6'' turrets on each side
I went aboard Tiger as a young lad, with my parents, when she visited Leith docks in the 70s, probably 1975. Impressive ship. It's my recollection that there would be no doubt that the hangar could take four helicopters, as they had a Sea King inside when I was aboard, and I think that you could have easily fitted another three in.
The story goes that the original plan called for a smaller hangar for 4 Wessex HAS-3 "camels" and retaining all 3 3" mounts, but when they decided to use Sea Kings the guns had to be sacrificed and the seacats were shoved in as makeweights.
Dang it looks SOOOO much better here BEFORE the hangar refit !! I joined Tiger C20 towards the end of the 6 year refit in 1972 and spent 2 years on her with 826 squadron and the box hangar. I MUCH prefer this image GOODNESS GRACIOUS love love LOVE this design ❤
I served in the RCN; we used the English Electric 3"70 turrets; 120 rounds per barrel per minute and zillions of moving parts eh. So we didn't get off too many bursts before something went wrong. Roll along wavy navy roll along. The ship I was in lasted until the eighties; a Restigouche class DDE, HMCS Gatineau. Ready Aye Ready.
Had the 3/70 been done as a single it might have been much more successful.but by the early 1950s redesigning the 3/70 and 4.5 Mk 6 as lighter less complex single barrell.mounta was seen far too expensive although.many RN staff and designers favoured the simplification.
“In theory” sorry to correct you but we took 4 Seaking helicopters of 820 nas on Blake - relieving the 4 Wessex of 820 nas (very confusing) and regularly sat on the flight deck as the plant pots up front tried to blow themselves up - hence their nickname “the main ornaments”
Thanks Tony. Sorry I was under the impression that 4 sea kings were a bit of a struggle to maneuver practically aboard/on the flight deck. They could fit yes but it was I thought a bit of struggle practically? Will always defer to someone who was there of course!
After completing my basic training at HMS Ganges and HMS Sultan the converted HMS Tiger was my first draft as a stoker working in the boiler room and engine rooms. Boy was that hard hot work 🥴 I still have fond memories of her today.
Thanks for the video. I remember the fleet deploying to the Falklands. In one clip the news camera panned around the harbor and showed one of these cruisers sitting at anchor.
Used to see the unmodified Tiger and Blake when I was a boy in Malta in the early sixties. Always wanted to see Lion but didn't learn until years later that she was held in reserve.
Lion served from 1960 to 1965, Blake only did one commission then went to reserve.She was the first to undergo conversion to helicopter cruiser though.
I remember them too in Malta as a lad in the 60s! We lived in Tigne Barracks with our veranda overlooking the entrance to Sliema, so I saw many wonderful destroyers, frigates etc all lit up at night and reflecting on the calm water. Tiger and Blake though were berthed next door in Grand Harbour.
Remember seeing one of these ships when on a school geography trip to the south coast in the early 70's. I took a picture on my trusty instamatic camera of it framed by the arch of Durdle Door.
Town class: “Ha, we finally spotted you because you were shooting at us! Eat these 12-gun broadsides!” Tiger class: “Ha, thanks to our extensive radar suite we spotted you before you were even built! Eat these ... well ... 2-gun ... um ... broadsides!”
Thank you, Drachinifel and I hope everyone is doing well. The latter day conversion brings thoughts of the Japanese ships that were converted to carry aircraft in WWII.
Has anyone ever noticed that Navies tend to always be in a "transitional phase"? The Tiger class is a transition between the all gun cruiser and the missile cruiser with one gun of today. In the American navy, we now have a class of destroyers as big as light cruisers, and frigates as big as WW2 destroyers. I'm eagerly awaiting the modern equivalent of the battle cruiser Dreadnought!
The Tiger class were always out of time. Too late to supplement the battlefleet or hunt raiders. In a sense they are like those 3, 1917 oddities Courageous, Glorious and Furious the last Fisher battlecruisers with the same flaw as the Tigers, only two main gun turrets and therefore unable to reliably engage surface targets at all angles. If one target is jammed or damaged only one target can be engaged. The Tiger/ Minotaur series of cruisers were originally ordered in 1940-42 as a large class of cruisers with, two 63ft beam prototypes Swiftsure and Minotaur (HMCS Ottawa) of the 1940 programme, followed by 8 Tigers cruisers which were ordered in the RN 1941-2 estimates and as usual the main turrets, secondary armament and power train for this large follow on class to the Town's and Colony class were very much under construction by 1942. HMS Superb, Tiger, Lion (ex Defence), Hawke, Blake, Bellerophon, Centurion and Mars . However once America entered the war the need for RN cruisers was less and the Tiger based very closely on the design of HMS Fiji ordered in 1936/7 did not seem really suitable to pursue and check the threat of large fast German, Italian, Japanese and Russian cruisers. Essentially on 8000 ton light displacement the Fiji and Improved Colony class carried the same massive armament of four triple enclosed Mk 23 6 inch turrets each turret with 6 feed chains or pusher lifts to conveys shells and cartridge charges to each turrets. Essentially an improved Colony say Newfoundland or Ceylon carried the same armament as the Kreigsmarine Seydlitz and Lutzow would have carried on 17,000 ton light displacement if they had been completed as intended as 6 inch gun cruisers.Instead of course Hitler demanded they be completed first as 8 inch gun cruisers and then gave Lutzow to the Russians and stopped Seydlitz 95 percent complete and fully armed in 1941 rather than risk the loss of more middle class officers at sea. MI6 always maintained Adolf's stupidity was enormously useful to the Allied cause. But if Lutzow and Seydlitz were in the Norwegian fjords with Scharnhorst and Triputz would a new Tiger still massively overgunned with 3 twun Mk23 triple 6 inch turrets weighing well over 1000 tons with the turret system above and below the deck a useful answer.No. So two Tigers were cancelled in 1943 and two more it seems in Feb/March 1944.The four shaft 80,000shp power trains under construction for HMS Bellerophon and HMS Centurion, were actually split into 4 power trains of 40,000 shp fitted to the first 4 Light Fleet carriers And it appears that HMS Hawke the Tiger laid down in7/43 may have been also broken up and recycled the same way and like HMS Bellerophon reordered and restarted as a 14,000 ton Neptune class in 6/44 and 2/45 certainly the main and secondary armament for 3 Neptune class cruisers Mk24 electric DC triple 6 inch, DC MK 6 twin 4.5s etc were very much building.And it appears HMS Hawke was scrapped on the slip and a Tiger in 1944 and as a Neptune in 1947.
Which is an important point for the hypothetical gun duel with Belgrano. What do you emphasize when you load ammunition in the UK, AP for antiship use or HE for antiaircraft work? Given the armor on a Brooklyn class cruiser, HE may be better there too, at least you can wreck the upperworks.
@@kemarisite my point about lack of AA weapons was in the 20mm to 40mm range as the RN went for mostly missile defence against aircraft A surface engagement with the RN and Belgrano was never going to happen as the Belgrano would never have been allowed to get that close as history shows
@@davidthefirst6195 Admiral Nimitz: "Hold those planes, boys. In 75 years Drach will want to make a UA-cam video of our fast battleships taking on the Yamato. Wouldn't want to let him down." If only admirals fought battles with Drach videos of gun duels in mind rather that sending in the planes and subs to do the job!
I think it was more the deficiency of the SeaDart tied Type 965 radar to track low level targets The newer HMS Exeter had Type 1022, and was able to take out 2 Low flying Skyhawks
@@kemarisite They carried an even split for the 6 sixers. Everyone turned-to for ammunition loading, I was teamed with another guy for moving the 3" shells onto the circular disc at the rear of the turret. They went down and were either placed in the magazine or loaded into the barbette rotary stores. they arrived in big crates like pop.The three inch were nearly a metre long and the sixers were about a metre and a half I think. She was never going to go toe to toe with a cruiser mounting 15 6" guns now was she? Even back in the day they were meant to be AA cruisers. However, that single turret could pump out 40 rounds a minute, radar directed and corrected. The 3" 180 per min. Was wonderful seeing and hearing them firing. I used to stand on the signal deck above the bridge to watch.
I spent some of my apprenticeship in Devonport working on the Tiger in the A and B boiler rooms. I distinctly remember the trip out to Lion to scavenge for spares and how tight the clearance between the boiler fronts was in B boiler room (and hot!). I have always thought Tiger looked top heavy and ungainly after the hangar was completed, very fine ships otherwise.
Steve S. I also worked on these vessel's in Devonport, but unable to remember exactly which one, also not able to recall actual job I did, but was with Johny Dixons team of fitters. I started in the yard in 1962 and left in 1969, it was good work, and excellent training/apprenticeship.
@@demportboy1584 Hi! Great to hear from you! I joined the ‘yard when you left (unfortunately)! The vessel we both worked on would be Tiger as Lion was moored in the river and Blake was based in Portsmouth. Regards, keep safe! Steve S.
@@steves5172 I guess you are right regarding Tiger, however I used to go up the "trot" to the vessels in reserve to rob bits and pieces as well. I have lived in the land of OZ since leaving the yard, best move ever, trust me. Take care. Bill.
my grandad served on HMS Tiger after the helicopter conversion, i still have the photo that he got for serving on the ship, along with HMS Gurkha and HMS Brinton (HMS banana boat)
I wasn't so early that something mentioned in another one of Drachifinels videos hadn't happen yet. Or still was around. Or not around yet. In fact i was here at around 15:30 o'clock german time.
I remember seeing them in Portsmouth harbour when I was a child. My dad who was grey funnel took us sailing at Whale Island. They were already out of use by that point but really impressive looking.
I had the good fortune to be able to visit one of them in Fort Lauderdale back in the late 1970's. I don't recall if it was Blake or Tiger, but as a 12 year old I thought it the coolest thing in the world. My mom took some photos of my dad and I next to the ship but when we cleaned out their house after mom passed in 2010 I couldn't find them. Bummer!
On the other hand Drach. HMS Tiger taking so long to complete probably gave the RN more time to work out at least some of the minor issues with the autoloader so they were somewhat more reliable than the USN 6 inch gun autoloaders.
WW1/2 were undoubtedly the crucible of ‘modern’ naval history, but I must admit that I love reviews of ships and actions that overlap with my own lifetime!
Years ago ,it was in May 1962 When HMS TIGER was visiting British Colonial HONG KONG , I had a chance touring on board this Cruiser. It was a memorable occasion to me. Then later it was The HMS LINCOLN F99 FRIGATE I visited when it was berthing in Hong Kong. The impressions of those two Royal Navy Vessels Still stay in my mind Clearly inspire of the passage of more than Half a Century.
Drach finally done a video on something that even had rockets on it and is almost fully (except the hulls) a post-war ship. Great! BTW if you're interested in post-WW2 submarines I suggest channel named Sub Brief - also known until couple of months ago as Jive Turkey. Great stuff.
*perk*, we get a look at the BB-10 Maine next week? I ran into quite a bit of information about that ship while researching the lurid problems the USN had with the 12"/40 that ship, and a couple other classes, were armed with. I'll be looking forward to your piece.
My school class was taken for a guided tour of the Tiger back in the day. We all lined up on the dockside afterwards for a photoshoot, but I lost my picture along the way...
I remember visiting "Snakey Blakey" at Portland. I was most interested to see this ship as my father had served on HMS Swiftsure and, before that, HMS Nigeria.
Looking at the list of upcoming ships I see a few of my favourites, the raider Pinguin and the oldest partially intact ironclad monitor HMVS Cerberus of 1868, although it's more of a rusty breakwater than a proper ship these days
The actual reason they stopped reactivating them was that some ministry chap had sold off all the 6 inch ammo to a foreign power... Otherwise they would have served at least a few years more whilst other units were completed
@@kemarisite True. General Belgrano (ex USS Phoenix) was armed with 15 USN 6"/47 cal guns firing a 130 lb AP round, not at all compatible with the RN's QF 6-inch Gun Mark N5 firing a 129.75 lb AP round. Close, but not close enough for government work. In a straight up gun fight, I think Belgrano would have swamped either Tiger or Blake (or even both together?) through shear volume of fire on target (15 barrels vs 2 or 4) even if the autoloading British guns were able to avoid malfunction.
As far as the Falkands campaign was concerned, they would have needed nearly 2000 crew between them, which werent avilable. Part of the rationale for considering them was their flight decks were Harrier-capable so could improve CAP time on task over San Carlos Water. The extreme unreliability of the 6" guns would have made any attempt to take on Belgrano (save as a last-ditch defence) unwise in the extreme, the two Counties, using a combination of Exocet and Seaslug, might have had a better chance. After that point, only Tiger (or Liger as she was dubbed because there was so much of Lion in her) was considered a potential going concern aiui.
Twenty years ago I picked up a early edition of the Frog model kit of the HMS Tiger at an antique show and built it around 2007. A rough kit but with work she is a beauty. Too bad they had to scrape all three. I think they are more valuable as a tourist attraction than for their value in scrap. Also would make a good recruitment asset.
People often say that old ships would make good tourist attractions, but the vast majority absolutely would not. The expense of keeping them safe for the public alone is enormous and supporters often vastly overestimate how popular military ships are. Hell, most of the visitors to HMS Belfast know nothing about it and leave knowing just as little.
Its a little hazy but I seem to recall this ship being among one of my models and I suspect it was an Airfix kit maybe one of my very earliest and I should say i think it was the updated ship with the helicopter pad and hanger
@@WALTERBROADDUS Blake was one of Britain's greatest admirals. Whenever a Royal Navy ship is named after a person, the vast majority of the time it's either a royal, a general, or an admiral.
I fired the 3"/70 Mk 6 during my time on HMCS Gatineau (Improved Restigouche Class). It was a far more powerful gun that the size suggests. The ROF for the Mounting was 180 rpm and the HMC ships carried over 1800 rounds. Each round weighed 50% more than the the round for the American 3"/50 (the projectiles were almost a kg heavier as weel) with a maximum range of almost 20 Kyds. I remember that with the Mk 48 and SPG 515 FC systems our MER was between 8.5 and 10 Kyds. The two big draw backs were the weight 37 metric tons (Gatineau only displaced around 2900 tons) and maintenance. For example, it took one person an entire week to grease the gun.
I remember a story about one of these, Tiger I think, accidentally firing a 6" shell while alongside in Devonport. Was it true? I had the Airfix model once and converted it with a bit of carved balsa wood to add the flight deck and hangar.
RM I understand it was a training round, but no explosive to detonate on impact. It landed in the yards compressor building and did some damage to the walls, this was located by the massive large crane by one of the basins. Heard details when at the training centre for pumps, small engines and auxiliary turbines.
I know ships have finite service periods & eventually must be retired, but there is something sad or even horrible about hearing, “She was sent to the breakers.”
I few ships i served on ended up being sunk as dive sites and artificial reef's. That puts a tear in my eye. However, in the psyche it kind a feels like they are 'still there'. Going to the breakers just seems so disrespectful lol.
I would like to find a image of HMS Blake (in it original form before the refit but not essential) that I could made into a framed post for my son (Blake 9). He would think this would be cool. He watch some of your videos with me. A model kit would be good to but it looks like we will need to settle for Tiger and change the numbers.
You say we missed out on a proper gun duel at the Falklands, but wouldn't the 3in and 6in AA of the ships be more useful, since air attack was the main threat for the navy. and the 6in guns would make for excellent fire support on the ground.
I'm sure he said that in jest. Belgrano's chances of getting into gun range of the task group were always practically zero (the fact that she was in the event sunk by the nuclear attack submarine HMS Conqueror while still hundreds of miles away demonstrates this). The bigger threat was her escorting destroyers which carried ship-launched Exocet.
How about a guide on the HMVS Cerberus? It was the first of the 'modern' battleships and its design was the first in the world to incorporate the combination of a central superstructure with fore and aft gun turrets. Launched in 1868 Cerberus is the only remaining breastwork monitor class warship left in the world. Cerberus not only has its hull but also its gun turrets and its guns.
Review suggestion: Independence class light carriers, converted from Cleveland class cruisers. I have a soft spot for these ships as my father served aboard one of them in 1945: USS Bataan.
Pinned post for Q&A :)
What if the germans managed (by some unnamed miracle) to capture the whole french fleet? How would that influence the war, especially the Mediterranean theater? Would the italians get some of french ships in this scenario?
Please discuss how navy ships in general, deal with their sewage. Especially in WWII. It's a subject area that is never brought up other than "sinking" some portions of refuse so as not to identify a ship. Did trash, sewage, waste, go directly in to the sea? Was it accumulated and then dumped? Etc.
Did the Germans actually put the captured port of Narvik to use? Couldn’t the allies intercept any ships or convoys from Narvik back to Germany?
Would this "last cruiser gun duel" even bode well for the british navy? Autoloading 6inch guns are a sight to behold but I dont think the Tigers would fare well against the Belgrano. The Belgrano , a Brooklyn Class had 15 barrels and twice the belt armor. I think that if engaged even by 2 Tigers, the Tigers would end up at the bottom. Which would be a major blow to the reputation of the british navy if such a minor assailant as argentina sunk 1-2 british cruisers in a gun duel. What are your thoughts on Belgrano vs Tiger. No airforce, no submarines just a straight surface action.
Could you explain a little about ship-borne radar and its evolution. more specifically how this affect the ability to detect other vessels. How much did different navys rely on radar for spotting during World War II and up to the cold war and how was the float plane affected.
Thanks
Best regards Billy :)
I served on Blake in 1975. 'Snakey Blakey' as she was known, had an odd steering tendency after the refit to put the hanger on. Hence the nickname. The rush to get missile armed ships ignored the tremendous advances in the gunnery world. Throughout their service these ships actually carried the most potent AA in the fleet allbeit much reduced from the original config. They were designed to put up a barrage of 800 shells per minute- accurately. They had issues on Tiger, which had hydraulic turrets, but Blake had all electric [I still have a 3" shell casing by my back door] systems and did not have the jamming issues. When under test the 3" guns out performed any missile system in service except the Sea Dart which had a longer range anyway. But medium and short range, all altitudes the test bed ships reported near 100% hits within the first few rounds with 3". I have no data for the sixers in that regard. Whereas the seacats, if they launched, usually managed a few spirals then a plop into the sea. So jumping for missiles over guns was not based on effectiveness, just status. Had she made it to the Falklands as I did, the issue of low flying Argentine aircraft would have been short lived, they would have stayed well away from her or have had much shorter missions.
Great story. Nice to learn.
Until the USN's Aegis system came into service SAM missile systems were very vulnerable to saturation, whereas gun-armed ships could service targets much faster and were much less likely to have their weapons saturated. It took a surprising length of time for the effective reach of SAMs to be more than that of heavy AA guns too.
As you say, SAM missiles were more about status for quite some time.
As I watched the video, I surmised that the SeaCat's system would have been inferior to the two 3 inch gun turrets removed.
So with the very limited number of aa...it was actually good...?
That point is beyond fascinating to me.
@@BarrettL1970 She was designed to throw a radar directed barrage of up to 800 heavy rounds per minute. During the trials they never used up their allocated ammo.
HMS Tiger: Rawr!
HMS Lion: Rawr!
HMS Blake: Oy!
Profound.
I'll get youuuuu beattiiiiieeeeeee
When Drach began reciting the ships names, Lion... Tiger... I was guessing which other big cat the third ship would be, perhaps Leopard? or Jaguar? or Puma? ... then he said Blake of all things. I realized just how inconsistent and unpredictable Royal Navy ship naming actually is.
🎵 One of these things is not like the other! 🎵
Tiger, Tiger, Burning Bright?
For those questioning why Blake? Blake was the head of the Royal Navy during the Commonwealth and responsible for increasing the size of the fleet tenfold as well as transitioning it from a force that only put to sea during the fair weather months to a force that put to sea all year round. He also invented the Single Line of Battle formation.
There was also a shortage of big cat names available. Leopard, Jaguar, Lynx and Puma were being used by frigates of the Leopard class.
Not poet William Blake?
Tyger Tyger, burning bright,
In the forests of the night;
What immortal hand or eye,
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?....
@@brianspendelow840 Could have used Cougar and put some of the older unmarried Wrens aboard
Panther
Lion and Tiger and Blake, oh my!
Handsome looking cruisers (before the aft deck conversion).
I was sold for scrap in 1982. Still here on the Internet tho, lol
Yes very handsome. Fine lines and a chiseled superstructure similar to Vanguard
Drach gets perilously close to modern naval coverage with this video!
I love the look of this class as gun cruisers.The hangar and flight deck spoiled their looks in many peoples views,they also caused a lot of structural issues.Not for nothing was Blakes nickname,"The Snakey Blakey", I am lucky to have seen all three of this class,although I never served on any of them. As a boy living on the St Beaudaux naval estate you could look down at the dockyard.Lion was laid up along side the depot ships Adamant and Tyne, then part of Devonport fleet maintenance base which was known as HMS Orion in those days. The Tiger was laid up in Fareham creek, Portsmouth for several years,but I remember her in the dockyard,( Portsmouth ), just before the Falklands war with the Bullwark. I was in Nelson barracks as part of the barrack guard when Blake paid off,and saw her along side at the time,although she went to Chatham to be laid up.Sorry if I've bored you with my ramblings, but these ships bring back fond memories.
I would love to see an overview of the Fairmile MGB/MTBs
Seconded ! And while the boss is at it, he can as well do the Vosper, BPB and Thornycroft MTBs/MGBs and of course my favourites, the German S-Boote (is there a better looking and performing thing ? of course not ...). Don't we forget the Italian MAS and I've heard the Americans also did one or two PTs (some fancy gun and rocket additions on these, as one might expect ...). I also have a soft spot for certain Russian boats - the cute little Tupolev G-5 comes to my mind.
Motion thirded. The duel between one of the ML's and a German Destroyer ("torpedo boat" Jaguar) is legendary. The Germans were somewhat stunned by how much resistance one little boat could give, as their deminuative opponent only surrendered after being boarded, running out of ammunition, and several prior offers to surrender.
Would like to see the mosquito fleets get covered more. MTB's of all nations would be great. I would like to see a vid on USN and IJN subchasers.
"last gun-based cruisers"
Missiles may be better but gun-armed ships always look cooler to me
Missiles look cooler when fired, but I feel like guns are cooler to look at in general. Plus, normal guns can do naval salutes with blank rounds.
Are you suggesting the floating block of flats USS Long Beach doesn't look cool? What an outrageous assertion I say.
Who doesnt think guns look cooler? They’re a bigger power move than a little box with some rockets in
I like both. And I want them in my AL fleet, as well as sirens. I guess I'll just buy ~1600 dock spaces...
lets wait big railguns become common place
I’ve always had a soft spot for these cruisers since I made the Airfix model of HMS Tiger, probably nearer 50 years ago than 40.
The Airfix one (1/600th scale, pre-conversion) is rare as hen's teeth and goes for collectors' money these days. However Revell bought the moulds for the Matchbox one (1/700th scale, post-conversion) and have put it out at regular intervals, so it's very available. I've got three in the stash...;-) I believe there was also a FROG one in 1/500th scale(?) but good luck finding one of those...
@@MrHws5mp I made the Airfix HMS Tiger (alongside HMS Victorious and HMS Leander) when I was a boy.
@@MrHws5mp If you are up for it, there's the MT Models 1/700 Tiger / Lion and Blake / Tiger configurations - and someone (can't remember who) does 3D print stuff to back-convert the Matchbox etc version to all-gun. Cost you plenty, though. ps For some reason not vouchsafed to the humble modeller, the Frog (later Novo) Tiger was 1/415 so didn't fit with 1/500 Torquay and Undine.
@@99IronDuke I did HMS Leander too!
Matchbox brought out a hanger version in the 70's too
I have memory of the last 2 ships laid up in reserve in Portsmouth in the late 1970's, early 80's. Even after the helicopter conversion they were still impressive ships.
Yes, I remember Tiger and Blake alongside. They were just across from Rame Head, the old Liberty ship that was being used as an accommodation ship.
my grandad served on the tiger after the helicopter conversion
*sees WoWs dev blog*
Drach: Aight, better make a video about that class
And yet uses War Thunder ingame screenshots ;) at the three minute mark
Coffee and warships!
Tequila and boats!
Sounds like the Breakfast of Champions to me!
Put a splash of rum in that coffee sailor.
It always amazes me how many of the late WWII and just post-WWII ships lasted into the 80's before being broken up. Thanks for the great run-down on a worthy ship!
It was unfortunate they did as the large number of incomplete or barely used cruisers, destroyers and aircraft carriers laid up in reserve at the end of WW2 meant the political pressure to rebuild those hulls in the USA/UK in the mid and late 1950s was often overwhelming, where the long terms interests of the USN/NATO for modern sustainable warships with decent living should have meant the end of legacy reconstructions by 1955. In other words instead of completing Ark Royal, Hermes and Victorious reconstruction two new 35,00O ton carriers should have been built in 1956-1963 and the Tiger class should have been scrapped when they were suspended in.1944. Three new 7OOO ton RN cruisers with 4 twin 5/54 manual semi auto S fitted to De Grasse, Midway and Roosevelt would have been sensible.
This channel has grown so much it seems like there are more non-guides going out than guides! Its a good sign of diversification!
Now I know 'I wish [X] had been saved' always comes up, but those 6" turrets do look awesome, a shame one wasn't parked somewhere for preservation.
They would have looked **sick** as secondary battery guns on some 1950s British supercruiser design. I can imagine a diminutive of the Vanguard class battleships, with something like 9'' or 10'' main battery and two of those 6'' turrets on each side
Enough! Why do we have to "preserve" every damned ship ever built? Take a picture, it'll last longer...literally.
@@richardm3023 Did you miss the part where he was talking about saving one of the 6" turrets, not the entire ship?
I had an Airfix model of this ship and HMS Daring.
I seem to recall having an Airfix kit of Tiger then I was young, many many years ago....
Me too
Same
Same here...
Didn’t Harold Wilson and Ian Smith hold talks on HMS Tiger in the sixties? Looks like the kit was deservedly popular. Very handsome ship.
@@johnappleby405 Yes. They ruined the lines with that helipad & hangar...
I went aboard Tiger as a young lad, with my parents, when she visited Leith docks in the 70s, probably 1975. Impressive ship. It's my recollection that there would be no doubt that the hangar could take four helicopters, as they had a Sea King inside when I was aboard, and I think that you could have easily fitted another three in.
The story goes that the original plan called for a smaller hangar for 4 Wessex HAS-3 "camels" and retaining all 3 3" mounts, but when they decided to use Sea Kings the guns had to be sacrificed and the seacats were shoved in as makeweights.
Dang it looks SOOOO much better here BEFORE the hangar refit !! I joined Tiger C20 towards the end of the 6 year refit in 1972 and spent 2 years on her with 826 squadron and the box hangar. I MUCH prefer this image GOODNESS GRACIOUS love love LOVE this design ❤
I served in the RCN; we used the English Electric 3"70 turrets; 120 rounds per barrel per minute and zillions of moving parts eh. So we didn't get off too many bursts before something went wrong. Roll along wavy navy roll along. The ship I was in lasted until the eighties; a Restigouche class DDE, HMCS Gatineau. Ready Aye Ready.
Interesting. It's a shame we won't see any new RCN ships for another decade. Maybe by then we'll have the rail guns sorted out.
Had the 3/70 been done as a single it might have been much more successful.but by the early 1950s redesigning the 3/70 and 4.5 Mk 6 as lighter less complex single barrell.mounta was seen far too expensive although.many RN staff and designers favoured the simplification.
Hello eveyone, hope you are all having a wonderful day and I hope you guys are all safe and sound.
cheers..!
The Breakers!!! Why the Breakers!!!? Breaks my heart.....Every time!
Because metal can be melted down and re-used and a country only needs a handful of museum ships.
You should do a poll, they are really good for the algorithm
Not as good as a couple shorts
If not sold on the idea of polls,you could do a poll to see if your viewers would mind polls.
To be fair Drach is hardly suffering from alogathrim problems
@@derekmcmanus8615 we should vote on that... .
Ahh ballance
“In theory” sorry to correct you but we took 4 Seaking helicopters of 820 nas on Blake - relieving the 4 Wessex of 820 nas (very confusing) and regularly sat on the flight deck as the plant pots up front tried to blow themselves up - hence their nickname “the main ornaments”
Thanks Tony. Sorry I was under the impression that 4 sea kings were a bit of a struggle to maneuver practically aboard/on the flight deck. They could fit yes but it was I thought a bit of struggle practically? Will always defer to someone who was there of course!
After completing my basic training at HMS Ganges and HMS Sultan the converted HMS Tiger was my first draft as a stoker working in the boiler room and engine rooms.
Boy was that hard hot work 🥴
I still have fond memories of her today.
Thanks for the video. I remember the fleet deploying to the Falklands. In one clip the news camera panned around the harbor and showed one of these cruisers sitting at anchor.
So good for this Kansan to learn about General at Sea Robert Blake. Thanks, Drach and others!
Used to see the unmodified Tiger and Blake when I was a boy in Malta in the early sixties. Always wanted to see Lion but didn't learn until years later that she was held in reserve.
Lion served from 1960 to 1965, Blake only did one commission then went to reserve.She was the first to undergo conversion to helicopter cruiser though.
I remember them too in Malta as a lad in the 60s! We lived in Tigne Barracks with our veranda overlooking the entrance to Sliema, so I saw many wonderful destroyers, frigates etc all lit up at night and reflecting on the calm water. Tiger and Blake though were berthed next door in Grand Harbour.
Saturday is a good day....Hurrah for Drach!
Remember seeing one of these ships when on a school geography trip to the south coast in the early 70's. I took a picture on my trusty instamatic camera of it framed by the arch of Durdle Door.
Interesting video. I had the airfix model of Tiger when I was a kid in the 60s.
Igers were the ships that got me in to war ships as a kid as an Airfix kit was the first ship kit I built as a kit.
Town class: “Ha, we finally spotted you because you were shooting at us! Eat these 12-gun broadsides!”
Tiger class: “Ha, thanks to our extensive radar suite we spotted you before you were even built! Eat these ... well ... 2-gun ... um ... broadsides!”
The thought of Tiger and Lion shooting it out with ARA General Belgrano...
Oh how you tease us, Drach!
I'd just like to thank you for your channel, I find it very interesting and wish you success with your channel.
Thank you, Drachinifel and I hope everyone is doing well. The latter day conversion brings thoughts of the Japanese ships that were converted to carry aircraft in WWII.
Has anyone ever noticed that Navies tend to always be in a "transitional phase"? The Tiger class is a transition between the all gun cruiser and the missile cruiser with one gun of today. In the American navy, we now have a class of destroyers as big as light cruisers, and frigates as big as WW2 destroyers. I'm eagerly awaiting the modern equivalent of the battle cruiser Dreadnought!
I think the future is going to be more towards multi-role drone carriers (both air and sea).
The Tiger class were always out of time. Too late to supplement the battlefleet or hunt raiders. In a sense they are like those 3, 1917 oddities Courageous, Glorious and Furious the last Fisher battlecruisers with the same flaw as the Tigers, only two main gun turrets and therefore unable to reliably engage surface targets at all angles. If one target is jammed or damaged only one target can be engaged. The Tiger/ Minotaur series of cruisers were originally ordered in 1940-42 as a large class of cruisers with, two 63ft beam prototypes Swiftsure and Minotaur (HMCS Ottawa) of the 1940 programme, followed by 8 Tigers cruisers which were ordered in the RN 1941-2 estimates and as usual the main turrets, secondary armament and power train for this large follow on class to the Town's and Colony class were very much under construction by 1942. HMS Superb, Tiger, Lion (ex Defence), Hawke, Blake, Bellerophon, Centurion and Mars . However once America entered the war the need for RN cruisers was less and the Tiger based very closely on the design of HMS Fiji ordered in 1936/7 did not seem really suitable to pursue and check the threat of large fast German, Italian, Japanese and Russian cruisers. Essentially on 8000 ton light displacement the Fiji and Improved Colony class carried the same massive armament of four triple enclosed Mk 23 6 inch turrets each turret with 6 feed chains or pusher lifts to conveys shells and cartridge charges to each turrets. Essentially an improved Colony say Newfoundland or Ceylon carried the same armament as the Kreigsmarine Seydlitz and Lutzow would have carried on 17,000 ton light displacement if they had been completed as intended as 6 inch gun cruisers.Instead of course Hitler demanded they be completed first as 8 inch gun cruisers and then gave Lutzow to the Russians and stopped Seydlitz 95 percent complete and fully armed in 1941 rather than risk the loss of more middle class officers at sea. MI6 always maintained Adolf's stupidity was enormously useful to the Allied cause. But if Lutzow and Seydlitz were in the Norwegian fjords with Scharnhorst and Triputz would a new Tiger still massively overgunned with 3 twun Mk23 triple 6 inch turrets weighing well over 1000 tons with the turret system above and below the deck a useful answer.No.
So two Tigers were cancelled in 1943 and two more it seems in Feb/March 1944.The four shaft 80,000shp power trains under construction for HMS Bellerophon and HMS Centurion, were actually split into 4 power trains of 40,000 shp fitted to the first 4 Light Fleet carriers And it appears that HMS Hawke the Tiger laid down in7/43 may have been also broken up and recycled the same way and like HMS Bellerophon reordered and restarted as a 14,000 ton Neptune class in 6/44 and 2/45 certainly the main and secondary armament for 3 Neptune class cruisers Mk24 electric DC triple 6 inch, DC MK 6 twin 4.5s etc were very much building.And it appears HMS Hawke was scrapped on the slip and a Tiger in 1944 and as a Neptune in 1947.
The original stern layout @1:04 is interesting. Cheers!
Thank you for all you do. It’s very well researched and presented. I always look forward to your releases.
Thank you, Drachinifel.
A lack of AA guns came back to bite the RN badly in the Falkland Conflict
Which is an important point for the hypothetical gun duel with Belgrano. What do you emphasize when you load ammunition in the UK, AP for antiship use or HE for antiaircraft work? Given the armor on a Brooklyn class cruiser, HE may be better there too, at least you can wreck the upperworks.
@@kemarisite my point about lack of AA weapons was in the 20mm to 40mm range as the RN went for mostly missile defence against aircraft A surface engagement with the RN and Belgrano was never going to happen as the Belgrano would never have been allowed to get that close as history shows
@@davidthefirst6195 Admiral Nimitz: "Hold those planes, boys. In 75 years Drach will want to make a UA-cam video of our fast battleships taking on the Yamato. Wouldn't want to let him down." If only admirals fought battles with Drach videos of gun duels in mind rather that sending in the planes and subs to do the job!
I think it was more the deficiency of the SeaDart tied Type 965 radar to track low level targets
The newer HMS Exeter had Type 1022, and was able to take out 2 Low flying Skyhawks
@@kemarisite They carried an even split for the 6 sixers. Everyone turned-to for ammunition loading, I was teamed with another guy for moving the 3" shells onto the circular disc at the rear of the turret. They went down and were either placed in the magazine or loaded into the barbette rotary stores. they arrived in big crates like pop.The three inch were nearly a metre long and the sixers were about a metre and a half I think.
She was never going to go toe to toe with a cruiser mounting 15 6" guns now was she? Even back in the day they were meant to be AA cruisers. However, that single turret could pump out 40 rounds a minute, radar directed and corrected. The 3" 180 per min. Was wonderful seeing and hearing them firing. I used to stand on the signal deck above the bridge to watch.
I spent some of my apprenticeship in Devonport working on the Tiger in the A and B boiler rooms. I distinctly remember the trip out to Lion to scavenge for spares and how tight the clearance between the boiler fronts was in B boiler room (and hot!).
I have always thought Tiger looked top heavy and ungainly after the hangar was completed, very fine ships otherwise.
Steve S. I also worked on these vessel's in Devonport, but unable to remember exactly which one, also not able to recall actual job I did, but was with Johny
Dixons team of fitters. I started in the yard in 1962 and left in 1969, it was good work, and excellent training/apprenticeship.
@@demportboy1584 Hi! Great to hear from you! I joined the ‘yard when you left (unfortunately)! The vessel we both worked on would be Tiger as Lion was moored in the river and Blake was based in Portsmouth. Regards, keep safe! Steve S.
@@steves5172 I guess you are right regarding Tiger, however I used to go up the "trot" to the vessels in reserve to rob bits and pieces as well. I have lived in the land of OZ since leaving the yard, best move ever, trust me.
Take care. Bill.
Got pissed on the Tiger in 76 in Gibraltar, with my mate Davy Mott. Inviting me onboard for a DTS dinner time sesh.
my grandad served on HMS Tiger after the helicopter conversion, i still have the photo that he got for serving on the ship, along with HMS Gurkha and HMS Brinton (HMS banana boat)
Awesome Video, Many Thanks
I wasn't so early that something mentioned in another one of Drachifinels videos hadn't happen yet. Or still was around. Or not around yet. In fact i was here at around 15:30 o'clock german time.
I remember seeing them in Portsmouth harbour when I was a child. My dad who was grey funnel took us sailing at Whale Island. They were already out of use by that point but really impressive looking.
Fantastic as always. Thanks!
I was lucky enough to have a wander around HMS Tiger in I think 1976 (?) when a friend of mine's was the Commander of the ship.
Now its a great weekend !
I remember the airfix kit from my childhood. ❤
Great video, crossing my fingers for more post-war content!
Thank for at last covering these wonderfully odd ships!
ooh nice drach uploaded.
I had the good fortune to be able to visit one of them in Fort Lauderdale back in the late 1970's. I don't recall if it was Blake or Tiger, but as a 12 year old I thought it the coolest thing in the world. My mom took some photos of my dad and I next to the ship but when we cleaned out their house after mom passed in 2010 I couldn't find them. Bummer!
The Tiger Class, AKA, "The Sky Sweeper Of Warthunder".
That god damned cruiser makes a 5km+ 'zone of no planes' around itself. Its awesome.
Interesting class.
Thank you for this video.
Peace.
On the other hand Drach. HMS Tiger taking so long to complete probably gave the RN more time to work out at least some of the minor issues with the autoloader so they were somewhat more reliable than the USN 6 inch gun autoloaders.
WW1/2 were undoubtedly the crucible of ‘modern’ naval history, but I must admit that I love reviews of ships and actions that overlap with my own lifetime!
Years ago ,it was in May 1962
When HMS TIGER was
visiting
British Colonial
HONG KONG ,
I had a chance touring on board this
Cruiser. It was a memorable occasion to me.
Then later it was
The HMS LINCOLN F99
FRIGATE I visited when it was berthing in Hong Kong.
The impressions of those two Royal Navy Vessels
Still stay in my mind
Clearly inspire of the passage of more than Half a Century.
I'm amazed at how narrow C34's stern is, for such a large( ish ) ship.
Drach finally done a video on something that even had rockets on it and is almost fully (except the hulls) a post-war ship. Great!
BTW if you're interested in post-WW2 submarines I suggest channel named Sub Brief - also known until couple of months ago as Jive Turkey. Great stuff.
Brilliant vide, my grandad served n Blake, any chance for a video on hms caprice or the c-lass destroyers?
*perk*, we get a look at the BB-10 Maine next week? I ran into quite a bit of information about that ship while researching the lurid problems the USN had with the 12"/40 that ship, and a couple other classes, were armed with. I'll be looking forward to your piece.
My school class was taken for a guided tour of the Tiger back in the day. We all lined up on the dockside afterwards for a photoshoot, but I lost my picture along the way...
I remember visiting "Snakey Blakey" at Portland. I was most interested to see this ship as my father had served on HMS Swiftsure and, before that, HMS Nigeria.
Looking at the list of upcoming ships I see a few of my favourites, the raider Pinguin and the oldest partially intact ironclad monitor HMVS Cerberus of 1868, although it's more of a rusty breakwater than a proper ship these days
The Save the Cerberus group have, sadly, been largely ignored by both heritage Victoria and the local council.
@@99IronDuke Yes, we have. I wonder if Drach will include Abyssinia and Magdala with Cerberus?
The actual reason they stopped reactivating them was that some ministry chap had sold off all the 6 inch ammo to a foreign power...
Otherwise they would have served at least a few years more whilst other units were completed
Argentina by any chance?
Just what I would expect from Sir Humphrey
@@johnlavery3433 not the same gun and shell.
@@kemarisite True. General Belgrano (ex USS Phoenix) was armed with 15 USN 6"/47 cal guns firing a 130 lb AP round, not at all compatible with the RN's QF 6-inch Gun Mark N5 firing a 129.75 lb AP round. Close, but not close enough for government work.
In a straight up gun fight, I think Belgrano would have swamped either Tiger or Blake (or even both together?) through shear volume of fire on target (15 barrels vs 2 or 4) even if the autoloading British guns were able to avoid malfunction.
As far as the Falkands campaign was concerned, they would have needed nearly 2000 crew between them, which werent avilable. Part of the rationale for considering them was their flight decks were Harrier-capable so could improve CAP time on task over San Carlos Water. The extreme unreliability of the 6" guns would have made any attempt to take on Belgrano (save as a last-ditch defence) unwise in the extreme, the two Counties, using a combination of Exocet and Seaslug, might have had a better chance. After that point, only Tiger (or Liger as she was dubbed because there was so much of Lion in her) was considered a potential going concern aiui.
A prime example of excellent design being badly wasted.
Fantastic! Just realised this was released today! Anyone remember the Airfix kit? Thanks Drach
Can u do one on the Manxman?
Twenty years ago I picked up a early edition of the Frog model kit of the HMS Tiger at an antique show and built it around 2007. A rough kit but with work she is a beauty. Too bad they had to scrape all three. I think they are more valuable as a tourist attraction than for their value in scrap. Also would make a good recruitment asset.
People often say that old ships would make good tourist attractions, but the vast majority absolutely would not. The expense of keeping them safe for the public alone is enormous and supporters often vastly overestimate how popular military ships are.
Hell, most of the visitors to HMS Belfast know nothing about it and leave knowing just as little.
Tiger Lion and Blake oh my
Its a little hazy but I seem to recall this ship being among one of my models and I suspect it was an Airfix kit maybe one of my very earliest and I should say i think it was the updated ship with the helicopter pad and hanger
I recall an HMS Tiger in an old onlinegame called "NavyField", it was two large turrets mounted on a nutshell. Such a shame it was a fantasy ship!
It's time to play 'One of these things is not like the others'.
Tiger
Lion
Blake
Play along and win a prize.
Tiger is the odd name out. Because tigers have never been native to Europe.
Since the RN does not use People name much, who was Blake?
@@WALTERBROADDUS Maybe he trained Tigers and Lions.
@@WALTERBROADDUS Blake was one of Britain's greatest admirals.
Whenever a Royal Navy ship is named after a person, the vast majority of the time it's either a royal, a general, or an admiral.
Tiger doesn't have an L? Lion has only four letters...... what r u gettin' at?
I believe the 6" guns of the type these used are installed at Pendennis Castle. They were used for testing.
That is an interesting stern.
Noting also that early trials of the Harrier jump jet were conducted off these ships.
I fired the 3"/70 Mk 6 during my time on HMCS Gatineau (Improved
Restigouche Class). It was a far more powerful gun that the size
suggests. The ROF for the Mounting was 180 rpm and the HMC ships
carried over 1800 rounds. Each round weighed 50% more than the the
round for the American 3"/50 (the projectiles were almost a kg heavier
as weel) with a maximum range of almost 20 Kyds. I remember that with
the Mk 48 and SPG 515 FC systems our MER was between 8.5 and 10 Kyds.
The two big draw backs were the weight 37 metric tons (Gatineau only
displaced around 2900 tons) and maintenance. For example, it took one
person an entire week to grease the gun.
Such a narrow fantail!!! Adding a flight deck above such a narrow beamed area looks...strange...
I saw Tiger and Blake in Portsmouth in 1982 just after the Falklands.
Last time I was this early, Britain was still the dominant naval force in the world.
As an American that hits WAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAY to close to home
Have you ever considered doing a piece on the Swedish airplane cruiser HMS Gotland? She saw active duty during and after wwII.
Will be interesting to see how world of warships represents her, as supposed to be coming soon.
I remember a story about one of these, Tiger I think, accidentally firing a 6" shell while alongside in Devonport. Was it true? I had the Airfix model once and converted it with a bit of carved balsa wood to add the flight deck and hangar.
Not sure if she fired one, or one was just dropped from height when storing ship, but there was an incident along those lines
RM I understand it was a training round, but no explosive to detonate on impact. It landed in the yards compressor building and did some damage to the walls,
this was located by the massive large crane by one of the basins. Heard details when at the training centre for pumps, small engines and auxiliary turbines.
I know ships have finite service periods & eventually must be retired, but there is something sad or even horrible about hearing, “She was sent to the breakers.”
I few ships i served on ended up being sunk as dive sites and artificial reef's. That puts a tear in my eye. However, in the psyche it kind a feels like they are 'still there'. Going to the breakers just seems so disrespectful lol.
@@amadeokomnenus1414 Aye.
What was the first truly potent gun mounted by the British and American navies? And thank you for marvelous work.
I would like to find a image of HMS Blake (in it original form before the refit but not essential) that I could made into a framed post for my son (Blake 9). He would think this would be cool.
He watch some of your videos with me.
A model kit would be good to but it looks like we will need to settle for Tiger and change the numbers.
With a surprising regularity that the British send their naval ships to the breakers it’s a wonder there’s a British Navy at all.
I saw this ship when she visited HMC Dockyard Esquimalt in the 1970s
Ok, the last time I was this early, the Russians thought they were going to beat the Japanese with those old boats
I think I see a torpedo boat...
@@FullSemiAuto357 never mind, it's just fishing trawlers .
You say we missed out on a proper gun duel at the Falklands, but wouldn't the 3in and 6in AA of the ships be more useful, since air attack was the main threat for the navy. and the 6in guns would make for excellent fire support on the ground.
I'm sure he said that in jest. Belgrano's chances of getting into gun range of the task group were always practically zero (the fact that she was in the event sunk by the nuclear attack submarine HMS Conqueror while still hundreds of miles away demonstrates this). The bigger threat was her escorting destroyers which carried ship-launched Exocet.
How about a guide on the HMVS Cerberus? It was the first of the 'modern' battleships and its design was the first in the world to incorporate the combination of a central superstructure with fore and aft gun turrets. Launched in 1868 Cerberus is the only remaining breastwork monitor class warship left in the world. Cerberus not only has its hull but also its gun turrets and its guns.
Review suggestion: Independence class light carriers, converted from Cleveland class cruisers. I have a soft spot for these ships as my father served aboard one of them in 1945: USS Bataan.
Tiger for me will always be the Matchbox kit that I overlooked for the Tribal Class and Z Destroyers...
It is kind of cool that we can now just use hangar shots from WoW to represent the actual vessels :)
HMS Tiger lay up on the River Clyde for years. Where I stay at Greenock she lay there so long we thought she already was scrap lol
There were the 'Tiger Talks' held aboard during the Wilson Govt.'s dealings with the breakaway Rhodesian Govt.
Lions and tigers and.....ah Blake's? Oh my.