I'm going to build a paper mache Honda B16 block and sleeve it with ceramic coffee cups. Top it off with 90 pounds of boost👍 Believe it or not when my son was racing MX at age 15 we would do this very thing. We would talk about how we would build a fully boosted motor in arts class. We would laugh for hours thinking up really funny stuff. On a very sad note he is now in Arizona at age 35 and on drugs really bad. I have not heard from him in a year! But don't stop with the arts class engine build ideas my friends. It brings back good memories ❤
@@jimhiscott2918 your going to need a leaf blower turbo if your running 90 pounds, conventional turbos would not cope with that strain, be sure you use extra virgin olive oil to many impurities in vegetable oil, slap on a toilet roll dump pipe and she will roar mate
I didn't realize people began making billet engine blocks that's amazing. Seriously cool engineering!!! But in 99% of cases, a stock block will do ya just fine.
I hope this becomes more readily available for old engines that have great aftermarket support for rebuild kits. You can keep an old car running indefinitely if you can keep buying all the pieces, block included! :3
"What is a billet engine, and when should you get one?" A billet engine block is a precision machined chunk of awesome, you should get one right now. *end credits*
Counterpoint: The billet block costs more than the rest of the fucking car and the cast iron block will be fine for 99.995% of hotrodders out there. Spend your money wisely. If you're on UA-cam looking up whether you need a billet block or not YOU DON'T NEED A BILLET BLOCK!
There are run a popper valved loop charged 2 stroke but you can cut ports into them also as aluminum is much easier to machine and weld up water jacket for port cutting. this is a chevy sb cast 2 stroke conversion:www.4btswaps.com/threads/turning-4stroke-into-2-stroke.12888/#lg=thread-12888&slide=0. Are these billet engines running stock oil injection system? They could with a dry sump, vro pump feeding into intake and amsoil dominator 2 stroke synth oil. I can wait to try this but a 1:1 crank speed came is needed to work int/exh valves with exh opening earlier for blow down. Its nice to see these billet 2 strokes run awsome!
@@drumbum7999 well yeah, but they are used in more high powered things, since they are lighter (not by too much) and they can resist deformation since they have a higher elongation and elastic ratio, compared to cast iron, to where if you try to bend, it'll snap before you were able to bend it. Thats what they were saying about the 2% for cast iron and the 10% for the forged aluminum alloy block. Remember, its mostly used by professionals who win lots of money, so its not really practical for a daily driver, unless its something you want to pass down to your 3 generation of grand kids. Be in mind, i don't know if it'll last that long myself, due to wear and tear, it might though, if it had constant servicing to it to keep it well maintained
"Billet" is usually taken as being an aluminium based alloy, but it can be any metal, which brings up the question - has anyone machined the block and/or head out of steel? While it would be heavier overall, part of that might be mitigated by less material being required, and it would definitely offer stiffness and thermal expansion benefits over aluminium. The only example that comes to mind where it was done was back in the day when someone (reportedly) machined a steel BD series block up because he was tired of blocks failing.
I wish I could have seen how they milled water jackets in the billet piece. Also, on the comment that the aluminum has the same tensile strength as cast. This may be true at room temp. Aluminum loses over 1/3 of it's modulus of elasticity when raised past 300 degrees F. It keeps getting worse as you go up.
From looking at the model they showed, there are a series of rectangular carvings toward the top of the block running along each side, with bolt holes and what looks like a sealing surface. I think that is the "water jacket." Even though it is not as close to the cylinder as on the original, it should be fine due to the higher heat conductivity of aluminum.
It all depends what you need and what you are willing to spend. Billet is for small quantity, custom fast made process. You draw your head, cam, crank in a CAD program and after a day or two you have your product. With a cast you need a whole factory process and it can't just be made when you need it. Casting is for large quantity needs. About strength yes billet is stronger and suitable for performance engines. Cast is more suitable for daily driver needs. Also with forging or billeting you have different expansion properties of the material. This is ok with sport usage since engine dont operate cold and is usualy heated by pooring hot oil like in F1 sport. With cars having forged or billet parts you are just looking for increased wear in cold start since forged pistons for instance have to have bigger clearence and thus rattle inside the cylinder until operating temp is achived.
If this guy tells me something about engines, I'll believe him because once you start milling aluminum blocks from billet, you're not alright in the head :O Keep up the good work!
its disingenuous to compare billet aluminum to cast iron, when there is cast aluminum. They have their shiny billet thing next to a rusted out bilge pump from the titanic.
i'd love to have a replacement for my M96.23 Porsche engine. i think that would be even more expensive than a V8 because, including the heads, it would be 8 individual pieces to manufacture. also the crankbearings sit on castfit steelinserts in the aluminium, wonder how they'd find a solution to this in a billet piece.
That's a cool job to have. I've worked with some of those materials, but never a block of aluminum like that. Only variable now is the raw block quality
So the non-water jacketed blocks are intended for drag racing only? I'd be curious to see how much strength an engine gains from not having a water jacket.
@@nats2956I assume that since a drag race is at most around 2 minutes run time including burnouts, the engine doesn’t stay running long enough for not having a water jacket to be a big problem
the 2JZ is good, but definitely overrated. I suspect if all vehicles had the same aftermarket, there would be a few better options, and several surprises.
You can hear the RB head engine sound amazing even as a stroker and in NA applications vs 2JZ even 1jz. The RB sound is unmistakable. While with the JZ the Toyota block casting is the key while the rb25/26 are even weaker than Aussie cast Rb30 - something was definitely wrong with Nissan Japan for the rb25/26 block casting. They went from one of the strongest L6 blocks in the L series to the crack prone RB casting. Many Japanese are using the L series with RB heads for budget/strength in drag racing.
How long is a billet engine able to last? If you had a 1000hp billet engine (including forged crankshaft, rods, pistons) how long would you expect it to keep going?
It’s depends on how you manage it, if your blowing up 500 hp engines you’ll most likely blow up your billet engine as well 😂 billet is just more forgiving but bad engine management will ultimately result in disaster anyway
There is no need to use forged iron. It has enough strength in cast form. Aluminum is much much weaker and only in applications of insane horsepower and you having the money to you use forged. A cast iron block is still much much stronger than forged Aluminum. I have never seen so many dumb comments. Even the guy in the video didn't know all Aluminum motors used sleeves.
How do they mill the water pockets tough? Just side straight pocket? I have so many questions with these billet blocks, would love to see them think thru a project like this ^^
This raises more questions than it answers. Does the oiling system keep the block cool enough to not need coolant passages? What kind of things make assembly different than a factory block, just the headstuds and possibly torque specs? What makes the RB heads flow better than a JZ head?
@@StreetFXofficial I think we all know that part, just like in the old SBC days hardcore drag racers would completely fill their blocks with concrete, while the guys who stayed on the street would only half fill them. It just got me wondering because from the video, it didn't really look like any of the blocks had coolant passages, or if they did, they only went about 1.5" (40mm) into the block. I would have believed you if you said a street motor only needs coolant in the heads with the conductivity of aluminum and cooling properties of oil, especially with a cooler installed. My 2015 Tacoma is the first vehicle I've owned with aluminum heads and block and I have noticed that it dissipates heat a lot quicker in the winter. With my old 5.0 Mustang (iron block and heads) would still be warm after sitting shut off in 30*F for a few hours. My Tacoma on the other hand, even just after 1.5 hours, it takes a couple minutes of driving to get the needle off the seat of the gauge. There's a lot of variables with it though, the Tacoma is higher up with a much roomier engine bay, all though it's pretty much boxed in with the skid plates. The Mustang was lower and fit and a tighter, but it was completely open underneath, with an oversized radiator that holds more coolant. I like wondering about things though. I often wonder if a straight 6 really needs counterweights on the crank at all, when built right. Or if sidedraft Webers can be jetted and reworked to distribute meth injection systems and ran as an ITB/fuel injection set up.
so how do they handle water jackets in a billet block? I cant imagine it would be easy to machine them out. Or is there some other way to handle cooling around the block when using a billet block?
I wonder how much that would cost to get a billet version of my 4cyl engine. They manufacturer made one and it was good for over 1000hp in the '80s so a few cooling passage and structural improvements while they're at it, and It would definitely be a good race engine.
Omg 😳…. I’m ready boss where do you want me?? 4 axis?? Setup?? Dang on a Haas!!! That’s right!!! People hate on em but I love em! Dang I can’t wait to open my own shop 😊 Also…. Nice work man love your setup!!!! You have a cool work flow and the shop looks so clean lol 😅 👍🏽💯
Wait a minute...what makes the 2jz so good is the cast iron itself...its so solid that it can withstand huge amounts of horsepower stock...wouldn't it be compromising to make it from aluminum?
My Name did you not listen to the guy? He said they were great until 1500hp After that they needed to thicken the cylinder walls and the bell housing, and the aluminum has the same strength with better elasticity
@@timothyrinaldi6609 that's awesome. I can imagine it's pricey, took a while to save enough to pull and port mine so it's probably out of my league for now but sometime!
@@7777Android I know who you're talking about but what about him? Imo although a seemingly nice guy that seemingly loves these too, he is a great example of someone who thinks he knows a lot about them but doesn't do anything correctly so he blows them up all of the time.
mrnicktoyou both engine are strong with cast block but it only can handle 1300hp till they crack while these billet can handle 2200hp with bigger psi with no crack
You would imagine that expansion and contraction would be much worse with aluminium than with a cast iron block, if the block gets taller as it heats up then you lose compression.
Yup, volumetric expansion of aluminium (0.000069) is about double that of iron (0.000035). See www.engineeringtoolbox.com/volum-expansion-coefficients-solids-d_1894.html. That said, car engines don't run hotter than about 250F (approx. 120°C). Source: www.globalcarsbrands.com/hot-car-engine/ Plug in the numbers here: www.easycalculation.com/physics/thermodynamics/thermal-volumetric-expansion.php and use 1000 for the initial volume to get more precise numbers since it rounds off to 2 digits after the comma. You'll see that if you heat up a car engine from freezing to this temperature, your total expansion will be 0.828%. So you're left with 99.18% of your pressure. That's 1/1.00828, in case you're wondering why it's not 99.172. In short: if I were you, I wouldn't worry about it, since some random Internet geek has already worried about it for you. ;)
When you are removing large chunks of material from a big block of Aluminum like this engine block this causes a lot of movement dimensionally in the work pice so it’s at least a three or more step process before you can start bringing it to size. Can even have to go to heat treat to allow it to normalize. Not a easy job takes lot’s of skill.
Also this is what I would call a craftsman someone who can take raw material and turn it into an complex finished part. Your looking at a part that took more than 100 combined years of experience to make.
chad danylak C’mon dude, engine block weight has nothing to do with the amount of power it can make. That only counts for moving parts, not the block. Jesus Christ....
@@StreetFXofficial an obvious downside to aluminum is that it will destroy itself if your cooling is inadequate for a couple minutes. Oh, your engine overheated? Rip it out, replace gaskets and level the surface. Ask anyone with a Subaru or Toyota.
I don’t know if you guys were born yesterday, but they mentioned making their blocks it out of 6061 aluminum. Do you guys have any idea what that means? It’s one of the lowest grades, bottomest of the barrel, shittiest quality aluminums out there. $10k my ass, that block they carved it out of is worth $500. 6061 isn’t only shitty but it’s real cheap.
+Turbo Sam wrong. You can heat treat 7075. Second, wrong again. 6061 is known to warp under heat. Third, obviously $500 was an exaggeration. But that’s still a $1600 block of 6061.
The billet mite be cheap but it's the machine and cad work where price goes up.. 6061 is the cheapest alloy but the easiest to work with and heat treatable, But would like to see a block made with 6061 then 5052 then 7075 and do a back to back test to see how far can really push them?,but guess this will never happen do to cost/machine time...
Can you make a billet engine of straight 8 with modifications and upgrades? Sorry for my bad english but you understand me right!! 3 engines 1950 buick straight 8 320 5.2L 1954 Mercedes benz W125 straight 8 5.7L 1929 Duesenberg straight 8 6.9L 😀 Is possible to build straight 10 or 12? with all upgrades!!
I'd like to see these billet blocks in 2045 with 100k km on them and then all the tuners try to get 1500hp out of them. Don't knock the 90's Japanese engine's they were masterpieces.
Can someone please explain to me why do they make billet aluminum blocks and not billet iron alloy blocks? If billet blocks are so strong why not max it out with a much stronger material? Is it that much harder to make?
Awesome video. I’ve been out of the racing seen for a long time and a lot has changed kinds like buck Rogers. One thing hasn’t changed and I’ve always said racing engines don’t run on racing fuel but racing dollars 🤪👍😎
Wow I was watching this video full screen after coming from another video and noticed the horrific tool path strategies used to machine these blocks. I thought Well maybe this video is from 10 or so years ago. Exited full screen and see it was from 2 days ago. OMFG those tool path strategies are from the 1990's.
@@StreetFXofficial Yeah after the first guy replied to me I realized I over reacted. They aren't a production shop having to pop out 10,000 of these a month.
no money is wasted on billet if you have to keep replacing your block (and other components) whenever the cast block shits itself under heavy load. cast blocks are not designed to go much higher than stock before major issues start popping up. if you are going to race and be competitive then go billet, if its only for street then stick with cast
my question is can you build a 2000hp daily??? Anything billet aluminium is known to warp under extended normal driving conditions which is why it is only recommended in drag cars that are torn down and inspected after every pass.
just outta curiosity will you be doing a VG motor or block for the 300zx? I know we have cast iron blocks which are heavy as sin. I would have a few people interested in getting these block in billet. LMK
I was curious about the answer posed by the title of this video. I thought the answer before I watched the video was that machining is the way to go for short runs and casting was the way to go for larger production. I think that was probably the right answer after I went looking around the internet. I didn't find anything that suggested cast aluminum was not as strong as the aluminum that a billet was made out of. Overall the video was entertaining even if it didn't address the issue posed by the title very well. I was curious what kind of cars these engines were being built for. 2000 hp was around twice the hp of a Formula 1 car and about three times the hp of an Indy car but it was much less than the hp of a drag strip car.
The one percent yield isn't measured against thickness. It's measured against the block's weight converted into Newtons, because a Newton is the universal unit of measure for force. It can be compared to the physical magnitude of pressure in the engine once that's also converted into Newtons. The point is, iron is more dense with a higher melting point and more magnetic resistance, so it can withstand more force than an aluminum alloy block of equal volume (same size). That's why the aluminum blocks are so much bigger. The great thing about a smaller block is that if you're working with a smaller engine bay, like most stock-chassis on 4-bangers, it gives you more space to add modifications, like headers, turbos or a supercharger, cold air intake, etc. He's right about this though: the bigger aluminum alloy billeted block engine will move less, probably because it'll be mounted on both opposite sides of the chassis' frame though lol.
Not many 2JZ engines were made world wide. You would have to be a bit of a fanatic to get a billet 2JZ. Luckily in Australia if you want a 4.0 litres Ford Barra engine they are everywhere.
It takes just one overheating for those engines not to work properly plus they get to get twisted. And the other hand cast iron engines they would hould overheating pretty well over and over again with out any damage to the engine
Billet engines have higher power output but smaller cooling area by way of smaller water jackets. How does the cooling happen.? Also aluminium is prone to distortion due to high temperature how this point is taken care of?
but what are the cost of a block on avarage on basis of the example, that was excluded, as someone who would built it myself that would be my most prefferd to know point
How long before we see the Billet manufacturers going to Laser Scintered 3D printed blocks and heads. I really do not have the materials knowledge to hazards a guess but both SpaceX and Blue Origin are 3D printing rocket engine parts. I would think the machinery would be a be a lot less expensive as it does not see anywhere near the stresses. As an aside. I worked with a guy that wrenches for race team out of NE Illinios. One type of car they run has Hart 4 cylinder engines. Heads and blocks are unobtainable. They had a new head designed. Patterns 3D printed. They then had new heads cast and machined. These are cars that require coolant. A straight to 3D printed head would cut a lot of steps. It would still require a certain amount of machining. I really can"t see it being weaker than a casting depending on the alloy used plus no core shifting.
I wonder why they bother with patterns when it’s now possible to 3D print the mould the metal will be poured into. When you want to change port shape etc it’s done on the computer and just print and pour another. Need to check the internal shapes? Just section it on your wood bandsaw.
@@henryblack3974 If you are doing multiple castings it's just easier to print the castings. You can always save the patterns. Between 3D printing with powdered metal and billet at this point in time billets probably a better way to go. Even for a head with coolant passages machine the head to say 90 to 95% and weld the passages closed with a filler plate on the top side of the head. Or just do the head in two pieces that bolt together. Besides this technology is changing so fast.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm going to build a paper mache Honda B16 block and sleeve it with ceramic coffee cups. Top it off with 90 pounds of boost👍
Believe it or not when my son was racing MX at age 15 we would do this very thing. We would talk about how we would build a fully boosted motor in arts class. We would laugh for hours thinking up really funny stuff. On a very sad note he is now in Arizona at age 35 and on drugs really bad. I have not heard from him in a year! But don't stop with the arts class engine build ideas my friends. It brings back good memories ❤
Pics or it never happened
@@difflockengage9228 lol.
@@jimhiscott2918 your going to need a leaf blower turbo if your running 90 pounds, conventional turbos would not cope with that strain, be sure you use extra virgin olive oil to many impurities in vegetable oil, slap on a toilet roll dump pipe and she will roar mate
use fiberglass in that mache too
@@mackk123 hell ya
I didn't realize people began making billet engine blocks that's amazing. Seriously cool engineering!!! But in 99% of cases, a stock block will do ya just fine.
0l
I hope this becomes more readily available for old engines that have great aftermarket support for rebuild kits.
You can keep an old car running indefinitely if you can keep buying all the pieces, block included! :3
For sure!
Umm no
What percentage of blocks on the road are stock? At least 99%
"What is a billet engine, and when should you get one?"
A billet engine block is a precision machined chunk of awesome, you should get one right now.
*end credits*
cast engines have machined surfaces where necessary so there's really no difference. billet just cost more
Counterpoint: The billet block costs more than the rest of the fucking car and the cast iron block will be fine for 99.995% of hotrodders out there.
Spend your money wisely. If you're on UA-cam looking up whether you need a billet block or not YOU DON'T NEED A BILLET BLOCK!
There are run a popper valved loop charged 2 stroke but you can cut ports into them also as aluminum is much easier to machine and weld up water jacket for port cutting. this is a chevy sb cast 2 stroke conversion:www.4btswaps.com/threads/turning-4stroke-into-2-stroke.12888/#lg=thread-12888&slide=0. Are these billet engines running stock oil injection system? They could with a dry sump, vro pump feeding into intake and amsoil dominator 2 stroke synth oil. I can wait to try this but a 1:1 crank speed came is needed to work int/exh valves with exh opening earlier for blow down. Its nice to see these billet 2 strokes run awsome!
@@drumbum7999 well yeah, but they are used in more high powered things, since they are lighter (not by too much) and they can resist deformation since they have a higher elongation and elastic ratio, compared to cast iron, to where if you try to bend, it'll snap before you were able to bend it. Thats what they were saying about the 2% for cast iron and the 10% for the forged aluminum alloy block. Remember, its mostly used by professionals who win lots of money, so its not really practical for a daily driver, unless its something you want to pass down to your 3 generation of grand kids. Be in mind, i don't know if it'll last that long myself, due to wear and tear, it might though, if it had constant servicing to it to keep it well maintained
10k for a billet 2jz is actually a pretty good price
Excellent video. Takes some of the mystery out of of billett engines.
I shudder to think how much one costs though.
$10k for the block, so probably only $6k more than a normal build.
@@StreetFXofficial that's actually not that bad.
I'm unsure if the 10k includes the cradle, sleeves and so forth, or just the bare block. That would be a question for Bullet.
@@StreetFXofficial do you think 9mm bullet is reliable
Yeah to be honest, when you're making 2,000 hp I'll tell you tight now $10k is a drop in the bucket on your car.
"Billet" is usually taken as being an aluminium based alloy, but it can be any metal, which brings up the question - has anyone machined the block and/or head out of steel? While it would be heavier overall, part of that might be mitigated by less material being required, and it would definitely offer stiffness and thermal expansion benefits over aluminium.
The only example that comes to mind where it was done was back in the day when someone (reportedly) machined a steel BD series block up because he was tired of blocks failing.
Titanium alloy would be awesome
I wish I could have seen how they milled water jackets in the billet piece. Also, on the comment that the aluminum has the same tensile strength as cast. This may be true at room temp. Aluminum loses over 1/3 of it's modulus of elasticity when raised past 300 degrees F. It keeps getting worse as you go up.
exactly what i was thinking, what they said was pretty optimistic, might work well anyway for a while though
seemed like they had a big safety coefficient though, they design was much less conservative
it's 6061 t6 aluminium...used in billet builds. the same aluminium used in coca cola cans or beer cans. and trust me It's pretty strong.
From looking at the model they showed, there are a series of rectangular carvings toward the top of the block running along each side, with bolt holes and what looks like a sealing surface. I think that is the "water jacket." Even though it is not as close to the cylinder as on the original, it should be fine due to the higher heat conductivity of aluminum.
True. But, then again, not too many people run 300 degree thermostats.
2:20 turn captions on😂😂😭
😂😂😂😂
Well then
Thats some zoophilic shit right there
SeaN Black why would you think of a boxer breed weirdo lol
@@jadenwracing8176 ok chill kid
This is my dream job. Hope I can find something similar to this once I finish my engineering degree.
Get some friends and start your own company.
@@ninelaivz4334 You don't build a restaurant before working in one.
@@FrozenHaxorof course you can if you know what your doing.
@@2seepThe point flew high over your head.
Its like a Sports Illustrated swimsuit model: Looks beautiful, performs well, and is way outta my league.
It all depends what you need and what you are willing to spend. Billet is for small quantity, custom fast made process. You draw your head, cam, crank in a CAD program and after a day or two you have your product. With a cast you need a whole factory process and it can't just be made when you need it. Casting is for large quantity needs. About strength yes billet is stronger and suitable for performance engines. Cast is more suitable for daily driver needs. Also with forging or billeting you have different expansion properties of the material. This is ok with sport usage since engine dont operate cold and is usualy heated by pooring hot oil like in F1 sport. With cars having forged or billet parts you are just looking for increased wear in cold start since forged pistons for instance have to have bigger clearence and thus rattle inside the cylinder until operating temp is achived.
So billet can’t be used for daily or normal car guy??
If this guy tells me something about engines, I'll believe him because once you start milling aluminum blocks from billet, you're not alright in the head :O Keep up the good work!
its disingenuous to compare billet aluminum to cast iron, when there is cast aluminum. They have their shiny billet thing next to a rusted out bilge pump from the titanic.
Kinda when state of the art engines are cast Al
Indeed
SAME, thing I was thinking.
@Barry Manilowa what about reliability?
Same question, how reliable are billet engines compared to cast engines?
god I wish this was in 4k, just beautiful
19:29 What a masterpiece job done well thumbs up for that !
great video, the walk through at the end was icing on a cake
30 years a machinist & mech/manuf. engineer with high profile mosport experience... @17:05 I learned something new today :)
I am so glad Hard Metal and Rock Music is coming back to Videos. Man. 2020 is looking to be a GREAT YEAR!
@Mickey Mishra - 2020 was looking to be a great year? BOY did you get that wrong!
i'd love to have a replacement for my M96.23 Porsche engine. i think that would be even more expensive than a V8 because, including the heads, it would be 8 individual pieces to manufacture. also the crankbearings sit on castfit steelinserts in the aluminium, wonder how they'd find a solution to this in a billet piece.
When should you get one? When you win the freaking lottery!😝
That's a cool job to have. I've worked with some of those materials, but never a block of aluminum like that. Only variable now is the raw block quality
most beautiful thing I'ever seen, what sweet machine , making the block
machined billet aluminum looks like jewelry, I love it !!!!!
8:44 cue the dyno pull
Great, but how do you make both oil and water flowing routes in aluminum billet because in casting those are done by cores during casting process?
Brilliant work. I hope one day i get to buy a complete engine from you.
Starts at 8:00
Thx
So the non-water jacketed blocks are intended for drag racing only? I'd be curious to see how much strength an engine gains from not having a water jacket.
How is the engine cooled if there is no water jacket
@@nats2956I assume that since a drag race is at most around 2 minutes run time including burnouts, the engine doesn’t stay running long enough for not having a water jacket to be a big problem
Memories.As a new automotive student, machined/ sleeved a few Vega engines, back in 76 or so.
Thanks for correcting my memory - I had the impression those engines were sleeveless.
@@podamis314 They came factory sleeveless, then, when they messed up, we bored em out for steel sleeves.😏
I thought he was going to cry when he told him the RB head
Flowed better than the 2J Z head 😂😂😂
the 2JZ is good, but definitely overrated. I suspect if all vehicles had the same aftermarket, there would be a few better options, and several surprises.
You can hear the RB head engine sound amazing even as a stroker and in NA applications vs 2JZ even 1jz. The RB sound is unmistakable. While with the JZ the Toyota block casting is the key while the rb25/26 are even weaker than Aussie cast Rb30 - something was definitely wrong with Nissan Japan for the rb25/26 block casting. They went from one of the strongest L6 blocks in the L series to the crack prone RB casting. Many Japanese are using the L series with RB heads for budget/strength in drag racing.
How long is a billet engine able to last? If you had a 1000hp billet engine (including forged crankshaft, rods, pistons) how long would you expect it to keep going?
4,000,000 miles.
Rings, bearing, and Seals would be the issue
It’s depends on how you manage it, if your blowing up 500 hp engines you’ll most likely blow up your billet engine as well 😂 billet is just more forgiving but bad engine management will ultimately result in disaster anyway
Wow forged aluminum that’s impressive, it’s a good start, I wonder if you could do the same thing with the forged iron
There is no need to use forged iron. It has enough strength in cast form. Aluminum is much much weaker and only in applications of insane horsepower and you having the money to you use forged. A cast iron block is still much much stronger than forged Aluminum. I have never seen so many dumb comments. Even the guy in the video didn't know all Aluminum motors used sleeves.
@@johntate4638 oh yeah you know better than a man who does this stuff for a living and has a big ass company
Title of video starts at 8:00
What an awesome video thanks for sharing brother! 10k US which is $14876 AU not bad ay! If your building over 2000hp it’s a great investment
4:13 ABSOLUTELY FUCKING GORGEOUS. A TRUE REAL WORK OF ART THRU MACHINERY.
How do they mill the water pockets tough?
Just side straight pocket?
I have so many questions with these billet blocks, would love to see them think thru a project like this ^^
I eas wondering the exact same thing about coolant passages
They probably just drill holes and cross connect them with more holes
They mill the water passages from the inside where the cylinder sleeve goes before they install the sleeve.
@@budburr66 makes sense
@@skalamerija220 Basically a wet sleeve motor.
The Triumph TR engines were developed from the Vanguard wet sleeve 4 cylinder block.
This raises more questions than it answers. Does the oiling system keep the block cool enough to not need coolant passages? What kind of things make assembly different than a factory block, just the headstuds and possibly torque specs? What makes the RB heads flow better than a JZ head?
Only drag blocks have no coolant passages because they are not running for long periods.
@@StreetFXofficial I think we all know that part, just like in the old SBC days hardcore drag racers would completely fill their blocks with concrete, while the guys who stayed on the street would only half fill them. It just got me wondering because from the video, it didn't really look like any of the blocks had coolant passages, or if they did, they only went about 1.5" (40mm) into the block.
I would have believed you if you said a street motor only needs coolant in the heads with the conductivity of aluminum and cooling properties of oil, especially with a cooler installed. My 2015 Tacoma is the first vehicle I've owned with aluminum heads and block and I have noticed that it dissipates heat a lot quicker in the winter. With my old 5.0 Mustang (iron block and heads) would still be warm after sitting shut off in 30*F for a few hours. My Tacoma on the other hand, even just after 1.5 hours, it takes a couple minutes of driving to get the needle off the seat of the gauge. There's a lot of variables with it though, the Tacoma is higher up with a much roomier engine bay, all though it's pretty much boxed in with the skid plates. The Mustang was lower and fit and a tighter, but it was completely open underneath, with an oversized radiator that holds more coolant.
I like wondering about things though. I often wonder if a straight 6 really needs counterweights on the crank at all, when built right. Or if sidedraft Webers can be jetted and reworked to distribute meth injection systems and ran as an ITB/fuel injection set up.
so how do they handle water jackets in a billet block? I cant imagine it would be easy to machine them out. Or is there some other way to handle cooling around the block when using a billet block?
they show it in video they have a cover plate that bolts on over the water galleries
6:42 I'm really glad that all my head holes are in the right location🤣😂😅🤣😂
This was a casual video till 7:33 when this guy said they have customers with 4 cylinders making 2khp😭
I wonder how much that would cost to get a billet version of my 4cyl engine. They manufacturer made one and it was good for over 1000hp in the '80s so a few cooling passage and structural improvements while they're at it, and It would definitely be a good race engine.
I know its been 3 years lol but what do you have? Did you see that 4g63? Thats insane lol
Omg 😳…. I’m ready boss where do you want me?? 4 axis?? Setup?? Dang on a Haas!!! That’s right!!! People hate on em but I love em! Dang I can’t wait to open my own shop 😊
Also…. Nice work man love your setup!!!! You have a cool work flow and the shop looks so clean lol 😅 👍🏽💯
*_I think I'm going to order a Billet engine for my truck. Until a new material gets found to replace billet!_*
Wait a minute...what makes the 2jz so good is the cast iron itself...its so solid that it can withstand huge amounts of horsepower stock...wouldn't it be compromising to make it from aluminum?
My Name did you not listen to the guy? He said they were great until 1500hp
After that they needed to thicken the cylinder walls and the bell housing, and the aluminum has the same strength with better elasticity
@@robertmcquarrie452 no I didnt i was at work and it's super loud lol guess it would've helped to hear it too.
When is a billett rotary coming?
I think it would be much cheaper to make since most of the machining you need is just in one axis. It is much more two dimensional.
Pac Motorsport from Sydney Australia build a rotary billet engine not cheap thou
@@timothyrinaldi6609 that's awesome. I can imagine it's pricey, took a while to save enough to pull and port mine so it's probably out of my league for now but sometime!
yjjeeper1 rob dahm
@@7777Android I know who you're talking about but what about him? Imo although a seemingly nice guy that seemingly loves these too, he is a great example of someone who thinks he knows a lot about them but doesn't do anything correctly so he blows them up all of the time.
I need a 2uzfe 4.7 for my 4Runner. That would be awesome but I’m not rich. You guys do great machine work.
What about the coolant pathways that go around the block?
How can the cnc mill the blocks oiling passages
So, 2JZ engine block is stronger than RB block but, RB head flows better than 2JZ head. Engines seem pretty even as they both have their weaknesses.
mrnicktoyou both engine are strong with cast block but it only can handle 1300hp till they crack while these billet can handle 2200hp with bigger psi with no crack
How cool. Would love to be able to build any engine
Amazing guys, incredible job👌👌👍👍👍
Im about to finish my last semester of my computer integrated machining degree and i would kill to have a job like this
.
Admittedly I'm a few American Honeys into the night but i really enjoyed this yarn. Now I have to find out how they do a water cooled billet block.
Absolutely amazing, I guess, big horsepower, big money. Regards Brad
I am curious about catastrophic problems like a thrown rod that bangs around in that aluminum block. Moreso repairable than iron block?
Renishaw tool measuring devices, nice! i didn't know that Haas mills use the same toolchanging system as Hurco, at least it looks very similar.
Awesome video! Learned a lot!
Very interesting loved the catia view learned a lot beacuse of ya guys thx!
You would imagine that expansion and contraction would be much worse with aluminium than with a cast iron block, if the block gets taller as it heats up then you lose compression.
Yup, volumetric expansion of aluminium (0.000069) is about double that of iron (0.000035). See www.engineeringtoolbox.com/volum-expansion-coefficients-solids-d_1894.html. That said, car engines don't run hotter than about 250F (approx. 120°C). Source: www.globalcarsbrands.com/hot-car-engine/
Plug in the numbers here: www.easycalculation.com/physics/thermodynamics/thermal-volumetric-expansion.php and use 1000 for the initial volume to get more precise numbers since it rounds off to 2 digits after the comma. You'll see that if you heat up a car engine from freezing to this temperature, your total expansion will be 0.828%. So you're left with 99.18% of your pressure. That's 1/1.00828, in case you're wondering why it's not 99.172.
In short: if I were you, I wouldn't worry about it, since some random Internet geek has already worried about it for you. ;)
Awsome work. Now what about cooling jackets or are these just drag racing blacks?
Base Engine - First day at the gym
Billet Engine - Professional IFBB Competitor
💪🏻
When you are removing large chunks of material from a big block of Aluminum like this engine block this causes a lot of movement dimensionally in the work pice so it’s at least a three or more step process before you can start bringing it to size. Can even have to go to heat treat to allow it to normalize. Not a easy job takes lot’s of skill.
Also this is what I would call a craftsman someone who can take raw material and turn it into an complex finished part. Your looking at a part that took more than 100 combined years of experience to make.
"And that basically gives the strength of a cast block would've previously done"
*crickets
Cylinder walls are subject to a completely different form of stress.
alu remove all the heat faster and weight less, so in turn you can pump more power into the engine
chad danylak C’mon dude, engine block weight has nothing to do with the amount of power it can make. That only counts for moving parts, not the block. Jesus Christ....
@@StreetFXofficial an obvious downside to aluminum is that it will destroy itself if your cooling is inadequate for a couple minutes. Oh, your engine overheated? Rip it out, replace gaskets and level the surface.
Ask anyone with a Subaru or Toyota.
@@StreetFXofficial most engines cast or not have sleeves....
Nice i was looking for that. Do you make engines block with any material desired?
What is a BILLET ENGINE ?? and when should you get one. ?
only When i win the jackpot on mega millions
Itr 1244t the block cost $10,000 so u don’t need million dollars
@@Big2009GeeWow who in the hell would buy that. 300k for an engine PASS
I don’t know if you guys were born yesterday, but they mentioned making their blocks it out of 6061 aluminum. Do you guys have any idea what that means?
It’s one of the lowest grades, bottomest of the barrel, shittiest quality aluminums out there. $10k my ass, that block they carved it out of is worth $500. 6061 isn’t only shitty but it’s real cheap.
+Turbo Sam wrong. You can heat treat 7075. Second, wrong again. 6061 is known to warp under heat. Third, obviously $500 was an exaggeration. But that’s still a $1600 block of 6061.
The billet mite be cheap but it's the machine and cad work where price goes up..
6061 is the cheapest alloy but the easiest to work with and heat treatable,
But would like to see a block made with 6061 then 5052 then 7075 and do a back to back test to see how far can really push them?,but guess this will never happen do to cost/machine time...
These guys know their stuff.
Can you make a billet engine of straight 8 with modifications and upgrades? Sorry for my bad english but you understand me right!!
3 engines
1950 buick straight 8 320 5.2L
1954 Mercedes benz W125 straight 8 5.7L
1929 Duesenberg straight 8 6.9L
😀
Is possible to build straight 10 or 12? with all upgrades!!
with enough cash, anything is possible!
so beautiful and perfect.
Whats the weight difference between billet and cast iron on a 2jz or an evo block? Wife's new boyfriend wants to know.
This specific question is actually answered in this very very video :P
@@TheHset lololol
Wife's new boyfriend huh? That answers it's self lol.
16:28 what’s the green for, and why is one side larger than the other
I'd like to see these billet blocks in 2045 with 100k km on them and then all the tuners try to get 1500hp out of them. Don't knock the 90's Japanese engine's they were masterpieces.
That's what I was thinking cast iron will take out aluminum in the long run
Can someone please explain to me why do they make billet aluminum blocks and not billet iron alloy blocks? If billet blocks are so strong why not max it out with a much stronger material? Is it that much harder to make?
probably cuz of the weight
Awesome video. I’ve been out of the racing seen for a long time and a lot has changed kinds like buck Rogers. One thing hasn’t changed and I’ve always said racing engines don’t run on racing fuel but racing dollars 🤪👍😎
Just like the old line about there's no seed substitute for cubic inches should really be no substitute for cubic money
mpetersen6 got that right, no replacement for displacement 👍
Wow I was watching this video full screen after coming from another video and noticed the horrific tool path strategies used to machine these blocks. I thought Well maybe this video is from 10 or so years ago. Exited full screen and see it was from 2 days ago. OMFG those tool path strategies are from the 1990's.
What's so wrong with the path?
@@Kekkojoker90 Probably could be optimized further regarding time consumption.
i mean it gets the job done doesnt it
When it takes a whole day to machine a block, I think the small savings woukd be negligible in the scheme of things.
@@StreetFXofficial Yeah after the first guy replied to me I realized I over reacted. They aren't a production shop having to pop out 10,000 of these a month.
How are the water jackets done on the billet block around the cylinders? I don't see how that is done??
What a fantastic means of throwing excess money away on an engine build!
no money is wasted on billet if you have to keep replacing your block (and other components) whenever the cast block shits itself under heavy load.
cast blocks are not designed to go much higher than stock before major issues start popping up.
if you are going to race and be competitive then go billet, if its only for street then stick with cast
Maybe I missed it but how do the water jackets work? Is there a plate they use to create the gallery on the aluminum engines?
Your apprentice still snapping taps off in blocks on the daily?
You know the dude?
@@Drifter212 Helicoils rule
QUESTION: how does he make the water and oil passage ways in the block and heads ?..also do they warp ?..
Awesome video, you can do my old 2001 s3 engine block next that is made out of cast.
How can they machine internal passages, like water or other holes and things that used to be disposable sand?
3:24 - "leftover scrap on the ends..." SCTE, SWEETEST COFFEE TABLES EVER...!!!
My advice to anyone who wants to learn all aspects of trade skills like what you see here is to first become a multi millionaire or forget it.
Brenton K k
looks like a piece of art
What a fantastic company, so awesome
my question is can you build a 2000hp daily??? Anything billet aluminium is known to warp under extended normal driving conditions which is why it is only recommended in drag cars that are torn down and inspected after every pass.
So, the alloy is forged into a block then billet/milled/CNC machined into an engine.
Brilliant Vid guys.👍🏽🍺
How does the billet blocks get cooled for the street engines? seems like there are no cooling jackets
just outta curiosity will you be doing a VG motor or block for the 300zx? I know we have cast iron blocks which are heavy as sin. I would have a few people interested in getting these block in billet. LMK
For when you want the same or slightly higher strength relative to cast iron but with much less weight.
I was curious about the answer posed by the title of this video. I thought the answer before I watched the video was that machining is the way to go for short runs and casting was the way to go for larger production. I think that was probably the right answer after I went looking around the internet. I didn't find anything that suggested cast aluminum was not as strong as the aluminum that a billet was made out of.
Overall the video was entertaining even if it didn't address the issue posed by the title very well. I was curious what kind of cars these engines were being built for. 2000 hp was around twice the hp of a Formula 1 car and about three times the hp of an Indy car but it was much less than the hp of a drag strip car.
The one percent yield isn't measured against thickness. It's measured against the block's weight converted into Newtons, because a Newton is the universal unit of measure for force. It can be compared to the physical magnitude of pressure in the engine once that's also converted into Newtons. The point is, iron is more dense with a higher melting point and more magnetic resistance, so it can withstand more force than an aluminum alloy block of equal volume (same size). That's why the aluminum blocks are so much bigger. The great thing about a smaller block is that if you're working with a smaller engine bay, like most stock-chassis on 4-bangers, it gives you more space to add modifications, like headers, turbos or a supercharger, cold air intake, etc. He's right about this though: the bigger aluminum alloy billeted block engine will move less, probably because it'll be mounted on both opposite sides of the chassis' frame though lol.
Is there a problem with the different expansion rates betwwen the cast iron liners and the aluminium block?
Are there any of these on street outlaws or any other show worth watching didn’t think so
Not many 2JZ engines were made world wide.
You would have to be a bit of a fanatic to get a billet 2JZ.
Luckily in Australia if you want a 4.0 litres Ford Barra engine they are everywhere.
The 2jz is the king,,,the barra is a toy next to the jz
It takes just one overheating for those engines not to work properly plus they get to get twisted. And the other hand cast iron engines they would hould overheating pretty well over and over again with out any damage to the engine
Billet engines have higher power output but smaller cooling area by way of smaller water jackets. How does the cooling happen.?
Also aluminium is prone to distortion due to high temperature how this point is taken care of?
Thanks for this excellent video
but what are the cost of a block on avarage on basis of the example, that was excluded, as someone who would built it myself that would be my most prefferd to know point
How long before we see the Billet manufacturers going to Laser Scintered 3D printed blocks and heads. I really do not have the materials knowledge to hazards a guess but both SpaceX and Blue Origin are 3D printing rocket engine parts. I would think the machinery would be a be a lot less expensive as it does not see anywhere near the stresses. As an aside. I worked with a guy that wrenches for race team out of NE Illinios. One type of car they run has Hart 4 cylinder engines. Heads and blocks are unobtainable. They had a new head designed. Patterns 3D printed. They then had new heads cast and machined. These are cars that require coolant. A straight to 3D printed head would cut a lot of steps. It would still require a certain amount of machining. I really can"t see it being weaker than a casting depending on the alloy used plus no core shifting.
I wonder why they bother with patterns when it’s now possible to 3D print the mould the metal will be poured into.
When you want to change port shape etc it’s done on the computer and just print and pour another.
Need to check the internal shapes? Just section it on your wood bandsaw.
@@henryblack3974
If you are doing multiple castings it's just easier to print the castings. You can always save the patterns. Between 3D printing with powdered metal and billet at this point in time billets probably a better way to go. Even for a head with coolant passages machine the head to say 90 to 95% and weld the passages closed with a filler plate on the top side of the head. Or just do the head in two pieces that bolt together.
Besides this technology is changing so fast.