What is a BILLET ENGINE, and when should you get one? vs cast 2JZ: Bullet Race Engineering Tour.
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- Опубліковано 8 січ 2020
- Following on from our "Frankenstein 2J RB" a few weeks ago, we flew to Adelaide to speak to Darren from Bullet Race Engineering about what makes a billet engine better, and at what point you might consider one over a standard cast iron block.
While we were there we got a factory tour and watched some billet 4G63's being milled up.
Huge thanks to Bullet for taking the time to show us around! - Авто та транспорт
I'm going to build a paper mache Honda B16 block and sleeve it with ceramic coffee cups. Top it off with 90 pounds of boost👍
Believe it or not when my son was racing MX at age 15 we would do this very thing. We would talk about how we would build a fully boosted motor in arts class. We would laugh for hours thinking up really funny stuff. On a very sad note he is now in Arizona at age 35 and on drugs really bad. I have not heard from him in a year! But don't stop with the arts class engine build ideas my friends. It brings back good memories ❤
Pics or it never happened
@@difflockengage9228 lol.
@@jimhiscott2918 your going to need a leaf blower turbo if your running 90 pounds, conventional turbos would not cope with that strain, be sure you use extra virgin olive oil to many impurities in vegetable oil, slap on a toilet roll dump pipe and she will roar mate
use fiberglass in that mache too
@@mackk123 hell ya
Its like a Sports Illustrated swimsuit model: Looks beautiful, performs well, and is way outta my league.
I didn't realize people began making billet engine blocks that's amazing. Seriously cool engineering!!! But in 99% of cases, a stock block will do ya just fine.
0l
I hope this becomes more readily available for old engines that have great aftermarket support for rebuild kits.
You can keep an old car running indefinitely if you can keep buying all the pieces, block included! :3
For sure!
Umm no
What percentage of blocks on the road are stock? At least 99%
"What is a billet engine, and when should you get one?"
A billet engine block is a precision machined chunk of awesome, you should get one right now.
*end credits*
cast engines have machined surfaces where necessary so there's really no difference. billet just cost more
Counterpoint: The billet block costs more than the rest of the fucking car and the cast iron block will be fine for 99.995% of hotrodders out there.
Spend your money wisely. If you're on UA-cam looking up whether you need a billet block or not YOU DON'T NEED A BILLET BLOCK!
There are run a popper valved loop charged 2 stroke but you can cut ports into them also as aluminum is much easier to machine and weld up water jacket for port cutting. this is a chevy sb cast 2 stroke conversion:www.4btswaps.com/threads/turning-4stroke-into-2-stroke.12888/#lg=thread-12888&slide=0. Are these billet engines running stock oil injection system? They could with a dry sump, vro pump feeding into intake and amsoil dominator 2 stroke synth oil. I can wait to try this but a 1:1 crank speed came is needed to work int/exh valves with exh opening earlier for blow down. Its nice to see these billet 2 strokes run awsome!
@@drumbum7999 well yeah, but they are used in more high powered things, since they are lighter (not by too much) and they can resist deformation since they have a higher elongation and elastic ratio, compared to cast iron, to where if you try to bend, it'll snap before you were able to bend it. Thats what they were saying about the 2% for cast iron and the 10% for the forged aluminum alloy block. Remember, its mostly used by professionals who win lots of money, so its not really practical for a daily driver, unless its something you want to pass down to your 3 generation of grand kids. Be in mind, i don't know if it'll last that long myself, due to wear and tear, it might though, if it had constant servicing to it to keep it well maintained
10k for a billet 2jz is actually a pretty good price
Excellent video. Takes some of the mystery out of of billett engines.
I shudder to think how much one costs though.
$10k for the block, so probably only $6k more than a normal build.
@@StreetFXofficial that's actually not that bad.
I'm unsure if the 10k includes the cradle, sleeves and so forth, or just the bare block. That would be a question for Bullet.
@@StreetFXofficial do you think 9mm bullet is reliable
Yeah to be honest, when you're making 2,000 hp I'll tell you tight now $10k is a drop in the bucket on your car.
great video, the walk through at the end was icing on a cake
19:29 What a masterpiece job done well thumbs up for that !
"Billet" is usually taken as being an aluminium based alloy, but it can be any metal, which brings up the question - has anyone machined the block and/or head out of steel? While it would be heavier overall, part of that might be mitigated by less material being required, and it would definitely offer stiffness and thermal expansion benefits over aluminium.
The only example that comes to mind where it was done was back in the day when someone (reportedly) machined a steel BD series block up because he was tired of blocks failing.
Titanium alloy would be awesome
god I wish this was in 4k, just beautiful
If this guy tells me something about engines, I'll believe him because once you start milling aluminum blocks from billet, you're not alright in the head :O Keep up the good work!
Brilliant work. I hope one day i get to buy a complete engine from you.
That's a cool job to have. I've worked with some of those materials, but never a block of aluminum like that. Only variable now is the raw block quality
most beautiful thing I'ever seen, what sweet machine , making the block
so beautiful and perfect.
Very interesting loved the catia view learned a lot beacuse of ya guys thx!
Thanks for this excellent video
What a fantastic company, so awesome
Work of art!
Awesome video! Learned a lot!
Amazing guys, incredible job👌👌👍👍👍
I am so glad Hard Metal and Rock Music is coming back to Videos. Man. 2020 is looking to be a GREAT YEAR!
@Mickey Mishra - 2020 was looking to be a great year? BOY did you get that wrong!
2:20 turn captions on😂😂😭
😂😂😂😂
Well then
Thats some zoophilic shit right there
SeaN Black why would you think of a boxer breed weirdo lol
@@jadenwracing8176 ok chill kid
This is my dream job. Hope I can find something similar to this once I finish my engineering degree.
Get some friends and start your own company.
@@ninelaivz4334 You don't build a restaurant before working in one.
@@FrozenHaxorof course you can if you know what your doing.
@@2seepThe point flew high over your head.
machined billet aluminum looks like jewelry, I love it !!!!!
Brilliant Vid guys.👍🏽🍺
I wish I could have seen how they milled water jackets in the billet piece. Also, on the comment that the aluminum has the same tensile strength as cast. This may be true at room temp. Aluminum loses over 1/3 of it's modulus of elasticity when raised past 300 degrees F. It keeps getting worse as you go up.
exactly what i was thinking, what they said was pretty optimistic, might work well anyway for a while though
seemed like they had a big safety coefficient though, they design was much less conservative
it's 6061 t6 aluminium...used in billet builds. the same aluminium used in coca cola cans or beer cans. and trust me It's pretty strong.
From looking at the model they showed, there are a series of rectangular carvings toward the top of the block running along each side, with bolt holes and what looks like a sealing surface. I think that is the "water jacket." Even though it is not as close to the cylinder as on the original, it should be fine due to the higher heat conductivity of aluminum.
True. But, then again, not too many people run 300 degree thermostats.
looks like a piece of art
Nice learned loads 👍
It all depends what you need and what you are willing to spend. Billet is for small quantity, custom fast made process. You draw your head, cam, crank in a CAD program and after a day or two you have your product. With a cast you need a whole factory process and it can't just be made when you need it. Casting is for large quantity needs. About strength yes billet is stronger and suitable for performance engines. Cast is more suitable for daily driver needs. Also with forging or billeting you have different expansion properties of the material. This is ok with sport usage since engine dont operate cold and is usualy heated by pooring hot oil like in F1 sport. With cars having forged or billet parts you are just looking for increased wear in cold start since forged pistons for instance have to have bigger clearence and thus rattle inside the cylinder until operating temp is achived.
So billet can’t be used for daily or normal car guy??
30 years a machinist & mech/manuf. engineer with high profile mosport experience... @17:05 I learned something new today :)
They even look good !
How cool. Would love to be able to build any engine
i'd love to have a replacement for my M96.23 Porsche engine. i think that would be even more expensive than a V8 because, including the heads, it would be 8 individual pieces to manufacture. also the crankbearings sit on castfit steelinserts in the aluminium, wonder how they'd find a solution to this in a billet piece.
Awesome video!
SUBSCRIBED!!!! awesome insightful video!! Thank you
Thank you 🤗
What an awesome video thanks for sharing brother! 10k US which is $14876 AU not bad ay! If your building over 2000hp it’s a great investment
Memories.As a new automotive student, machined/ sleeved a few Vega engines, back in 76 or so.
Thanks for correcting my memory - I had the impression those engines were sleeveless.
@@podamis314 They came factory sleeveless, then, when they messed up, we bored em out for steel sleeves.😏
Woooow.... IT's amazing!!!!
These guys know their stuff.
thank you. very good video.
When should you get one? When you win the freaking lottery!😝
Gorgeous.
Love it 👌✌
Great, but how do you make both oil and water flowing routes in aluminum billet because in casting those are done by cores during casting process?
Awesome video. I’ve been out of the racing seen for a long time and a lot has changed kinds like buck Rogers. One thing hasn’t changed and I’ve always said racing engines don’t run on racing fuel but racing dollars 🤪👍😎
Just like the old line about there's no seed substitute for cubic inches should really be no substitute for cubic money
mpetersen6 got that right, no replacement for displacement 👍
Amazing.
I need a 2uzfe 4.7 for my 4Runner. That would be awesome but I’m not rich. You guys do great machine work.
Dream Factory!
Renishaw tool measuring devices, nice! i didn't know that Haas mills use the same toolchanging system as Hurco, at least it looks very similar.
Absolutely amazing, I guess, big horsepower, big money. Regards Brad
8:44 cue the dyno pull
Any chance in the near future of doing a sound test for these engines? This is a cast iron 2JZ and this is a Billet 2JZ sound comparison.
Engines don't necessarily have to be in the car. For me it's the 4G63 but whatever you can do😃 Cheers.
I am curious about catastrophic problems like a thrown rod that bangs around in that aluminum block. Moreso repairable than iron block?
i learned a lot today
Omg 😳…. I’m ready boss where do you want me?? 4 axis?? Setup?? Dang on a Haas!!! That’s right!!! People hate on em but I love em! Dang I can’t wait to open my own shop 😊
Also…. Nice work man love your setup!!!! You have a cool work flow and the shop looks so clean lol 😅 👍🏽💯
Yes please.. I need a billet 4g63
its disingenuous to compare billet aluminum to cast iron, when there is cast aluminum. They have their shiny billet thing next to a rusted out bilge pump from the titanic.
Kinda when state of the art engines are cast Al
Indeed
SAME, thing I was thinking.
@Barry Manilowa what about reliability?
Same question, how reliable are billet engines compared to cast engines?
I thought he was going to cry when he told him the RB head
Flowed better than the 2J Z head 😂😂😂
the 2JZ is good, but definitely overrated. I suspect if all vehicles had the same aftermarket, there would be a few better options, and several surprises.
You can hear the RB head engine sound amazing even as a stroker and in NA applications vs 2JZ even 1jz. The RB sound is unmistakable. While with the JZ the Toyota block casting is the key while the rb25/26 are even weaker than Aussie cast Rb30 - something was definitely wrong with Nissan Japan for the rb25/26 block casting. They went from one of the strongest L6 blocks in the L series to the crack prone RB casting. Many Japanese are using the L series with RB heads for budget/strength in drag racing.
Yup I want one
Awesome video, you can do my old 2001 s3 engine block next that is made out of cast.
3:24 - "leftover scrap on the ends..." SCTE, SWEETEST COFFEE TABLES EVER...!!!
*_I think I'm going to order a Billet engine for my truck. Until a new material gets found to replace billet!_*
just outta curiosity will you be doing a VG motor or block for the 300zx? I know we have cast iron blocks which are heavy as sin. I would have a few people interested in getting these block in billet. LMK
For when you want the same or slightly higher strength relative to cast iron but with much less weight.
6:42 I'm really glad that all my head holes are in the right location🤣😂😅🤣😂
Nice i was looking for that. Do you make engines block with any material desired?
QUESTION: how does he make the water and oil passage ways in the block and heads ?..also do they warp ?..
Interesting!
Hi mate what temperature can the aluminum block take whoud it handle the heat of a truck turbo bolted to a Ford six cylinder engine before it melts
Maybe I missed it but how do the water jackets work? Is there a plate they use to create the gallery on the aluminum engines?
I wonder how much that would cost to get a billet version of my 4cyl engine. They manufacturer made one and it was good for over 1000hp in the '80s so a few cooling passage and structural improvements while they're at it, and It would definitely be a good race engine.
I know its been 3 years lol but what do you have? Did you see that 4g63? Thats insane lol
4:13 ABSOLUTELY FUCKING GORGEOUS. A TRUE REAL WORK OF ART THRU MACHINERY.
Is there a problem with the different expansion rates betwwen the cast iron liners and the aluminium block?
Albins in Ballarat i believe do so much racing components its not funny in fact they did have the contract to the V8 supercar rear ends complete with gearbox as one unit, :) It just shows you how good items are when real CNC engineering and computer cad is used to develop and put no's though the system to make sure each 0.000 of a thousands of a inch is perfectly matched for its use. :)
Im about to finish my last semester of my computer integrated machining degree and i would kill to have a job like this
.
How does the billet blocks get cooled for the street engines? seems like there are no cooling jackets
How are the water jackets done on the billet block around the cylinders? I don't see how that is done??
Wow forged aluminum that’s impressive, it’s a good start, I wonder if you could do the same thing with the forged iron
There is no need to use forged iron. It has enough strength in cast form. Aluminum is much much weaker and only in applications of insane horsepower and you having the money to you use forged. A cast iron block is still much much stronger than forged Aluminum. I have never seen so many dumb comments. Even the guy in the video didn't know all Aluminum motors used sleeves.
@@johntate4638 oh yeah you know better than a man who does this stuff for a living and has a big ass company
This raises more questions than it answers. Does the oiling system keep the block cool enough to not need coolant passages? What kind of things make assembly different than a factory block, just the headstuds and possibly torque specs? What makes the RB heads flow better than a JZ head?
Only drag blocks have no coolant passages because they are not running for long periods.
@@StreetFXofficial I think we all know that part, just like in the old SBC days hardcore drag racers would completely fill their blocks with concrete, while the guys who stayed on the street would only half fill them. It just got me wondering because from the video, it didn't really look like any of the blocks had coolant passages, or if they did, they only went about 1.5" (40mm) into the block.
I would have believed you if you said a street motor only needs coolant in the heads with the conductivity of aluminum and cooling properties of oil, especially with a cooler installed. My 2015 Tacoma is the first vehicle I've owned with aluminum heads and block and I have noticed that it dissipates heat a lot quicker in the winter. With my old 5.0 Mustang (iron block and heads) would still be warm after sitting shut off in 30*F for a few hours. My Tacoma on the other hand, even just after 1.5 hours, it takes a couple minutes of driving to get the needle off the seat of the gauge. There's a lot of variables with it though, the Tacoma is higher up with a much roomier engine bay, all though it's pretty much boxed in with the skid plates. The Mustang was lower and fit and a tighter, but it was completely open underneath, with an oversized radiator that holds more coolant.
I like wondering about things though. I often wonder if a straight 6 really needs counterweights on the crank at all, when built right. Or if sidedraft Webers can be jetted and reworked to distribute meth injection systems and ran as an ITB/fuel injection set up.
Such an amazing work. Imagine making a 2jz from a 52100 steel (ballbearing steel) .
You will have fun machining this type of steel xD
CPM 10V lol
Tha old path...thanks..God bless
The one percent yield isn't measured against thickness. It's measured against the block's weight converted into Newtons, because a Newton is the universal unit of measure for force. It can be compared to the physical magnitude of pressure in the engine once that's also converted into Newtons. The point is, iron is more dense with a higher melting point and more magnetic resistance, so it can withstand more force than an aluminum alloy block of equal volume (same size). That's why the aluminum blocks are so much bigger. The great thing about a smaller block is that if you're working with a smaller engine bay, like most stock-chassis on 4-bangers, it gives you more space to add modifications, like headers, turbos or a supercharger, cold air intake, etc. He's right about this though: the bigger aluminum alloy billeted block engine will move less, probably because it'll be mounted on both opposite sides of the chassis' frame though lol.
It takes just one overheating for those engines not to work properly plus they get to get twisted. And the other hand cast iron engines they would hould overheating pretty well over and over again with out any damage to the engine
What about the coolant pathways that go around the block?
How can they machine internal passages, like water or other holes and things that used to be disposable sand?
Title of video starts at 8:00
Wait a minute...what makes the 2jz so good is the cast iron itself...its so solid that it can withstand huge amounts of horsepower stock...wouldn't it be compromising to make it from aluminum?
My Name did you not listen to the guy? He said they were great until 1500hp
After that they needed to thicken the cylinder walls and the bell housing, and the aluminum has the same strength with better elasticity
@@robertmcquarrie452 no I didnt i was at work and it's super loud lol guess it would've helped to hear it too.
How long is a billet engine able to last? If you had a 1000hp billet engine (including forged crankshaft, rods, pistons) how long would you expect it to keep going?
4,000,000 miles.
Rings, bearing, and Seals would be the issue
It’s depends on how you manage it, if your blowing up 500 hp engines you’ll most likely blow up your billet engine as well 😂 billet is just more forgiving but bad engine management will ultimately result in disaster anyway
How can the cnc mill the blocks oiling passages
Billet engines have higher power output but smaller cooling area by way of smaller water jackets. How does the cooling happen.?
Also aluminium is prone to distortion due to high temperature how this point is taken care of?
So how long does it take to machine it from the billet to engine block
so how do they handle water jackets in a billet block? I cant imagine it would be easy to machine them out. Or is there some other way to handle cooling around the block when using a billet block?
they show it in video they have a cover plate that bolts on over the water galleries
Wow I was watching this video full screen after coming from another video and noticed the horrific tool path strategies used to machine these blocks. I thought Well maybe this video is from 10 or so years ago. Exited full screen and see it was from 2 days ago. OMFG those tool path strategies are from the 1990's.
What's so wrong with the path?
@@Kekkojoker90 Probably could be optimized further regarding time consumption.
i mean it gets the job done doesnt it
When it takes a whole day to machine a block, I think the small savings woukd be negligible in the scheme of things.
@@StreetFXofficial Yeah after the first guy replied to me I realized I over reacted. They aren't a production shop having to pop out 10,000 of these a month.
Awesome
Dreams!
Base Engine - First day at the gym
Billet Engine - Professional IFBB Competitor
💪🏻
but what are the cost of a block on avarage on basis of the example, that was excluded, as someone who would built it myself that would be my most prefferd to know point
my question is can you build a 2000hp daily??? Anything billet aluminium is known to warp under extended normal driving conditions which is why it is only recommended in drag cars that are torn down and inspected after every pass.
I was curious about the answer posed by the title of this video. I thought the answer before I watched the video was that machining is the way to go for short runs and casting was the way to go for larger production. I think that was probably the right answer after I went looking around the internet. I didn't find anything that suggested cast aluminum was not as strong as the aluminum that a billet was made out of.
Overall the video was entertaining even if it didn't address the issue posed by the title very well. I was curious what kind of cars these engines were being built for. 2000 hp was around twice the hp of a Formula 1 car and about three times the hp of an Indy car but it was much less than the hp of a drag strip car.
Is billet alu gonna expand under heat like forged do?