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EXCELLENT info. I would expect this to be commercial it's so good. Truly. EXCELLENT. Hopefully you get editors who can assist coupling the meat of the content (info) with equivalent video ... Keep it up. Think New Mind ua-cam.com/channels/5_Y-BKzq1uW_2rexWkUzlA.html PS: Wouild shot peening billet rods make up for that ..? What about doing a final pass of forged rods used on billet ..?
I'm a PhD metallurgist who worked in the jet engine business. You'll hear a lot of nonsense about materials in popular media, but this video was excellent! I especially liked hearing the rarely spoken truth about "billet" parts - better than cast, not as good as forged.
I share your pain. I used to work as a Tool Marker and later i worked for a company that builds centrifuges for waste treatment plants. The number of times i heard people expouse that stainless steel is some kind of wonder material. They think if they use stainless screws they are much stronger.
@@Dave5843-d9m Possibly, but I question the cost effectiveness. In a production vehicle the currently used scintered and forged rods are perfectly serviceable for threat use. The rod is actually larger when it comes out of the sintering process and when forged ir reduces the volume and increases the density. Another option might be 3D printing using laser sintering of metal powders. This would actually allow the use of two different alloys. Hard and tough on the outside while softer on the inside. People are already doing 3D printer non load bearing components such as intake manifolds. Just how long before we see aftermarket aluminum 3D printed heads and blocks. These would still require a certain amount of machining but IMO would be cost effective in comparision to billet. I suspect that the engine manufacturers are already doing this. Originally 3D printing allowed for rapid production of patterns for casting prototype parts*. *One of the early 3D printing or stereo lithography techniques used paper rolled out on a platen with a laser cutting out the cross section. Glue on the next layer and tra e the cross section. Rinse and repeat until done. This technique is still around to some degree. There is a company in Ireland that was showing a desktop 3D printer that was combined with an inkjet. The idea is to produce fully colored and finished items newatlas.com/mcor-iris-paper-3d-printer/32903/
The strongest component in a jet engine is probably the low pressure shaft - a maraging steel, forged. Temperature capability probably OK. Specific strength (accounting for density) is probably highest for Ti-6242 or GE's alloy Ti-17. The single crystal turbine blades are for very high temperature - at that temperature (2000F/1100C) they have ultimate strengths of around 40ksi. At 1400F/760C and below, but above the limits of titanium, a nickel alloy called 718 is best. But there are design factors that matter - is there room for a low density alloy? Do vibration modes change in the wrong direction with density and modulus changes? And many, many more. Straying from experience is risky, and gets you scrutiny from the Chief Engineer.
Materials scientist / metallurgist here. You did a good job at explaining usefulness for the different alloys! You made one mistake though: When comparing steel against aluminium and titanium, for the application of connecting rods, you have to compare the yield strength of the material, not the tensile strength. The yield strength is the load per unit of area (be that psi or ksi, or MPa) where the material starts to deform permanently. Often you see a value for "0,2% yield strenght", which is the load where your piece will have been loaded so that, after release, it has permanently deformed by 0,2%. Tensile strength (ultimate tensile strength) is the highest load the material can take before it breaks/fails/snaps, which is typically quite a bit higher than the yield stress. So in the application of a connecting rod, you have to avoid getting stretched or bend rods, so the 0,2% yield strength is the value to compare, not the ultimate tensile strength. You don't need to know when it *breaks* but you do need to know the point where it would *start to deform permanently* . With regard to the shock absorbing capabilities, what you need to look at is the Young's modulus, or modulus of elasticity. It basically describes the "springiness" of a material in the load range *below* where it gets to deform permanently. Typical steel E-modulus is around 190 GPa (27500 ksi) where Ti-alloys are around 115 GPa (17000 ksi) and your average aluminum/aluminium sits around 70-80 GPa (11000 ksi'ish). So aluminium is indeed acting like a softer spring compared to steel. Minor detail: galling and fretting are not the same thing. Galling is local cold welding during direct metal-to-metal contact, where the formed weld is stronger than the base material so a tiny part gets ripped out of the counter part, which then causes more damage. Fretting is a form of wear where the sliding distance is really really small (micrometer or mils scale) such as when you have parts in vibrating contact.
@@Hydrazine1000 Just out of curiousity what kind of education/path did you take for learning that? It always interested me but it's probably way out of my league. Great read, thanks!
@@insanebmxthomas I got a MSc in Materials Science & Engineering at Delft Technical University. Edited to add: a BSc or MSc in mechanical, civil or aeronautical engineering would also get into the fundamentals of how material behaves, this isn't limited to Materials Science & Engineering.
....very good explanation, you definitely know your metallurgy and I too work with steels, HSS HY-80 & HY-100, Inconel or cres steel.. There's a lot to learn about the average steel etc...and you definitely know what you're talking about. Thank you for you explanation.... I don't know anywhere near as much as you from what you explained.
even automitive will not teach you this, engineering is just getting to know a bit from a million different technical cases. I study engineering myself and every case is basically enough to calculate with but not enough to be an expert, and i think this stuff is pretty in depth..
Hmmmm, back when I got my BSME, the basis of this video was covered in school (material properties, particularly steel, aluminum other metals and concrete). Mr. Kaleta either 1) hasn’t yet taken the course that covers this, 2) didn’t pay attention on that day, 3) isn’t studying mechanical, chemical or related fields of engineering (although at my school, even the EEs had an into into this) or 4) needs a better school.
@Prophet You do realize that you don't finish a mechanical engineering course in any university worth a damn without first designing mechanical parts right? "Engineering" is a bit vague as there are about a gazillion different branches of engineering and you wouldn't expect an electronics engineer to know any of this stuff. But you will learn just about all of this in a mechanical or automotive engineering course. In a materials science course you will learn, far, FAR, *FAR* more than this.
I visited a college recently and observed a Level 3 engineering group in a lesson (18-20 yo) - a student asked "What's the difference between stress and strain" the reply alarmed me "There much the same - there's no need to know that" - I learned later the lecturer was being promoted to head of Engineering - I was appalled - it's a fact that many OFSTED inspectors are not themselves competent in the subject they are meant to guarantee standards for.
One of the only channels you can hit 'like' before actually watching the video, and the most informative, and entertaining automotive channel on UA-cam, in my opinion anyway.
main point of forged aluminum is the shock adsorber effect.. in our top level engines (12,000hp in 500CID) we run the rods until they shrink (get shorter) by our magic number.. This video is pretty spot on .. not sure where he got his info but it is really good... Now the work being done on carbon fibre rods.....
Didn't see pressure cast rods mentioned, well worth a mention as a lot of manufacturers used them in the transition period from mass market cast to forged rods. Manufacturers such as Saab and Suzuki were known for using this process.
I can attest to titanium being 'difficult' years ago I was a partner in an engineering company, specialising in heat exchanger components for the petrochemical industry. We were approached by a customer who had tried to manufacture tube sheets from titanium and failed. I quoted the job @ 4x what we would ask for stainless steel + a big oops factor and very nearly came short. Eventually though we worked out how to do it and it became the most profitable job we ever did. I would describe is as trying to machine abrasive toffee to fine tolerances.
Heard that a whole new machining industry to be able to machine titanium for the Sr71. Looked like a pain in the backside. Way to engineer your way to success!
Jim Kimpton the Real Engineering has a couple of great videos about this... search their channel for “SR-71” or “titanium” if you haven’t seen those already
In my section of the shop we don't machine titanium but from what I've heard about it I wouldn't like machining it. Titanium work hardens like nothing else, thus peck drilling is a no go, if speeds and feeds ain't perfect along with a regular supply of inserts as to have fresh tips you're going to have a bad time. Albeit the other side of the factory says doing chromed induction hardened steel like my side does is far worse, 62-65 HRC 10-50 thou deep. I do hate them ceramic inserts but as long as you rotate and change them out per so many parts you're usually good.
Nice and accurate explanation young sir. I have manufactured Connecting rods for almost 12 yrs. prior to retirement. Borg Warner, and GKN sintered metals. Our 4340 rods were forged, (One hit) which came from a powered metal process (compaction), then heat sintered at 1800 deg. F, for 2-2 1/2 hours, and coated in liquid graphite at the end of that process. This process resulted in a "near net" rod with a 7.0 density and required only flash removal, and surface grinding, ID Grinding then shot peened. Each were magna-fluxed or resonate tested for cracks. The Lab did Rockwell, yield strength, tensile and micro structures and overall density. Result, a low cost, well balanced within 5 grms pin to crank end. We made them for all the big car mfg, and aftermarket like Howards. Nascar loved them. In all those years, we never heard of a rod failure due to process or workmanship. We designed the rod for the Z-06 GM platform, down to the 1600 Rod for BMW that went to Brazil. For the cost and durability, I will take one of my rods anytime over Billet Alum, cast, or titanium. Thanks for a great video. Cheers from Motown!
Interesting info. Didnt know forged steel will still be the best of all applications. Your video saved us a lot of money if we just blindly choose the 'best' material for rods.
@@sepg5084 so basically if you're not going to be pulling apart your engine every time you push it hard, just use steel, otherwise .. if you do use what ever you want .. although have a nice big chunky bank account backing you up :D
@@sepg5084 i dont know a single drag racer here that use aluminum rods. all of us use 4340.. and some of us go 10s. maybe in the 7s it "matters", but only because they can not make the motor spin with fuel. they need rotating assembly savings to bracket race. which is lame IMO. if you run a 7.9 who TF cares its still a 7. competition can drain these dudes pockets.. im not gonna complain :P
@@michaelvann1934: I don't work with steel ever, I work with alot of Titanium and Cobalt. Is there a specific type of steel that works best? or at such low rpm's it doesn't matter at that point, I mean I'm talking about a non high performance engine.
I love the concept of Titanium in everything. Such a great metal. However for rods, sigh, I can live with the cost, and selecting a good set of forged rods rather billet. But ! The galling and notching issues versus the now minimal weight offset leaves me thinking forged steel for now until someone comes up with a better Ti alloy. Great content.
Titanium rods are normally 25-35% lighter than steel, so that's a big difference. Today's coatings also have very high impact resistance, so galling and notching are far less problematic than non-coated rods. Not sure about the fatigue life though.
Jesus christ I learn more about metals in this 20min video then a year in weilding school. Once again your the best thx for your hard work benefiting all of us engine/engineering nuts!
Yea ,machinist class skipped over this like black history month. lol I didn't learn this till I worked in a metallurgical testing lab. I did see an instructor catch titanium on fire. That was fun.
This was very interesting. I learned a lot. I view these materials through a cycling lens. Some people ask what material is best, and I tell them it depends on how you plan on using it. I think the same responce applies here. I've ridden bicycles made out of all of these metals. 6/4 or sometimes 3/2.5 Titanium is much preferred because of its flexibility and resistance to corrosion. 7000 series aluminum is very stiff but has a tendency to crack under repeated stress loads. Aluminum tubes for bicycles are very thin and have a tendency to dent very easily. Thanks.
Also a cyclist, worth noting that aluminium isn't really stiffer than ti. The "traditional" oversized tube frames that alu is made into is what gave aluminium its reputation for stiffness. Aluminium also isn't a material that handles repeated bending well in the long-term so oversized tubes that are stiffer and don't bend much were a way to create frames that lasted. Some of the original aluminium frames by Vitus had thin tubes that were of a similar diameter to traditional steel tubes and were known to be way too flexible.
I'm not an engine expert, but you pretty much nailed the differences between alloys of steel, aluminum and titanium. Great explanation. Titanium also has pretty low thermal conductivity which can be helpful at times.
This lack of thermal conductivity makes it difficult for machining. I saw tungsten carbide inserts glowing while cooled with emulsion at quite low cutting speeds. With other materials a lot of heat goes in the part and the chips.
I'm 52 years old and I thought I was pretty knowledgeable about performance components of engines, I have been wrong, you have given me an education about engine performance internals. Thanks
Just want to say how much i respect your video quality and in depth explanations. Ive been trying to learn about cars specifically hondas and your k series motor break downs were awesome !
great video as always, the only thing i will say is that the vast majority of oem rods are SINTER forged which is entirely different than traditional forging. far and above stronger than cast, but not as strong as a traditional forging. oems have used this process for years now because it is fast and easy and cheap (relatively speaking) and requires very little finish machining. even performance and workhorse engines like the vast majority of gm gen 3/4 and even gen 5 use sinter forged rods with the exceptions being high performance variants such as the ls7 and 9 among others.
As always, great and clear explanations on the subject. I love the way you manage to condense important parts of the "scientific" aspect of a topic into something a car enthusiast without an engineering degree can understand. Your videos give a good overview of what matters which enables me to quite easily dive deeper in the subject by my own. Just the simple fact that now I know which words to Google thanks to your vids is very helpful and helped me to gather quite good knowledge and understanding of particular subjects. Keep up the good work!
This was the best I've EVER seen to explain in PLAIN, easy to understand, language on the 3 different types of connecting rods in the performance world! Thank you for this, While I'll never be able to AFFORD titanium in any of my vehicles, still I found this BOTH entertaining AND informative all around! You are AWESOME my friend... SIMPLY AWESOME!!! THANK YOU!!!
This was very informative because I've been looking to have titanium rods installed in my "street" car. I'm more concerned about reducing reciprocating mass than beefing it up for more power. Less moving mass will organically free up more engine power.
An additional advantage is that reducing rotating and/or reciprocating mass (of which rods count as both) will potentially reduce shift times, assuming you're using a manual transmission at least. Same idea as if you changed to a performance clutch with a smaller diameter and therefore smaller moment of inertia.
In the early 70;s I heard of a Matchless G50 fitted with an early Titanium rod - it worked great for a season however the following season it snapped - I inquired why and was told it "Age Hardens"
my father says they fabricated titanium rods in the 70s for some of the BMW race bikes and they only got it to work once they put an aluminum cap on it to help absorb the harmonic distortions that would fracture the titanium. tiny little rods with massive caps lol
A&P here who can attest to titanium age hardening. Some of our rivets had to be kept in the freezer to keep them from hardening. You only had about twenty minutes to drive them or they would crack. On the other side of the coin, the titanium alloys used in turbines last thousands of hours without fail. Wouldn't use it for connecting rods unless absolutely necessary. Even small aircraft piston engines still use I or H beam forged steel rods for longevity.
Great video... most interesting.. part for me.. was the term or phrase.. for galling back... in the old days of 1979 to about 1986.. some old timers. And my dad ... being one of them ... used the term.. scoaring... a type of damage.. do to heat pressure and or friction..... thanks man have a good day. ...
Just gives you a bit of short lived acceleration gains... so driving uphill with a friend in the car means you have to rev harder to maintain your speed.
As a CNC programmer and machinist, I've worked with alot of different alloys and Titanium is a bitch to work with. It's so strange in that it's "gummy", yet tough as hell. Unlike machining steel where you can tell your tool is wearing, with Titanium, the tool fails quickly and usually catastrophically. Luckily alot of newer machines you can set parameters to monitor "load". So as a tool starts to fail, the load on the machine tool motor starts to increase, and if setup properly, the machine will issue an alarm before the tool fails. I must say, a properly machined titanium part is a thing of beauty.
Some people who machine titanium are using cryogenics to super cool the material and thus able to machine a lot easier. The Russians were the leader in making titanium; machining, fabricating and welding it. Their airplanes and rocket were mostly titanium.
Very well done. You hit on almost every detail in the differences between these 3 connecting rod materials. You even taught me a couple things in the titanium connecting rod department. Although, you were perpetuating old wives tales when it comes to modern aluminum rods. Yes, they will not last for 100k miles at 200hp per rod but, they have made huge advances in longevity. They will easily go 10k miles in a high power application before needing to be checked. Their advantages now outweigh their disadvantages in many high-extreme power street cars.
I've been a machinist for over 20 years and most of that time I have been cutting Ti6Al4V. It's honestly pretty nice to machine. Granted you have to use the right tooling and you can't tear through it like aluminum. But it is far better to work with than 316lvm or cobalt chrome.
We run some quite high boost on some of our engines,some with the 'hypercraptastic' pistons still fitted,we built a single turbo V6 duratec with around 9.5:1 cr on low-ish 7-9 lbs boost on 70,000 mile factory H/t pistons,expecting a short life,It's had four years of moderate abuse without protest so far and have heard tale of some people running silly boost with them with no issues.I've also seen them broken on na engines,conversely I have seen a few engines using decent aftermarket uprated parts destroyed through poor application of those parts,bad/poor machining tolerances,poor building practise etc.
Haha HT pistons can take plenty boost if the tune is right, ran stock ‘93 5.0 short block, victor jr heads with low/mid 20psi for 3yrs until the cam pin sheared from the cam bolt stretching/harmonics then upgraded everything. And was well over the claimed max 500whp too
What some just don't seem to understand is a real H beam rod and forged piston may also be a lot lighter than stock units. For me in my Nissan Ca18det engine, i saved over 1hg per unit over stock. What will that be in 9.000rpm!? A lot i would say.
15:30 - Slight correction: You can't use RAW titanium in any application where metal parts are sliding against each other. Titanium that is coated with titanium nitride (gold-colored), aluminum-titanium nitride (deep purple colored), titanium carbo-nitride (grey colored), or diamond-like carbon (shiny black colored) can be used in sliding applications with no risk of damage. And technically raw titanium can also be used in sliding applications as long as it's lubricated with extra-fancy oil and the load isn't too high, but obviously that doesn't apply inside a car engine. *EDIT: Nevermind, you eventually explained the coatings.*
Yeah, titanium has an exceptionally high friction like silver, doesn't it? I forget the technical term. There's also a different for some materials between friction of like materials and dissimilar.
The shear strength sucks too. In terms of machining a lot depends on the tooling. The worst stuff I've worked with is nearly pure copper. In fact most metal in a nearly pure state machine like horse dung. Soft and gummy.
and cost too much, even when they were one of the most abundant element on earth and be easily be forge under modern technique, they just simply overprice.
Very interesting video. Thank you. My sole machining interaction with titanium was to replace the steel clip on bars on my motorcycle with it. I started with a 510mm length of 22mm OD 18mm ID tube and tried to cut that into two 250mm lengths but even though the chuck was turning real slow it still locally hardened so I had to resort to a grinding disc to finish the cut (but I was able to easily face the tube ends afterwards, strange stuff titanium). Both tubes needed a 5mm hole in them to securely locate the throttle and switches but the first hole I cut ended up oversize (I used a 5mm end mill). On the second tube I used a 4.5mm end mill and finished to size with a HS steel drill bit (that worked perfectly). Seems like you need a lot of cutting fluid (I used oil), continuous pressure, sharp tools, and slow speed. You can't afford to let the machining heat the part or it immediately hardens (titanium is a poor conductor of heat for a metal so overheating is easy but local). High speed steel tools are fine just so long as the cut is not allowed to create too high a temperature. Oh and titanium burns. When it burns water will not put it out (the oxygen in H2O feeds the fire) so be careful (dry sand will smother the fire).
Another excellent video on this application use for rods. This guy is real good at what he produces in his (2) videos that I have seen thus far! Thank you, J
@@bicyclist2 But with modern head designs, pushrod v-8s can get 100 hp per liter NA. But the OHV "weapon" has always been about putting a lot of displacement into a small and lightweight package (rather than maximizing volumetric efficiency). Now that they're not giving up so much on the specific output front, they make a tremendous amount of HP for the mass and volume of the total package. I am running an 8.2 liter (502ci) LS. It's pretty giggle-inducing way of producing ~800 crank HP. It's always in the right gear. It only weights 550 lbs including flywheel and clutch. I've loved a lot of 4-valve motors over the years, but none of them deliver power in such an easy to use manner as something that makes its power through greater displacement.
All that said, if other packaging considerations demand an inline or horizontally opposed motor, DOHC all the way. But judging by UA-cam, an LS will fit in anything.
@@yzScott I feel like DOHC could do better though for peak power. OHV seem to only benefit larger displacements (FCA hemis, Chevy's LS) because the lack of cam manipulation (cam profiles, etc.) as an effect has the car draw out more power throughout the range since they lack an "economic" or "less agressive" camshaft profile and all (ex: vtec, vvti, vanos,etc.) and are stuck on a medium-aggresive lobe, whereas DOHC or SOHC has mutiple levels. You can see how in Coyote people complain it lacks low end -- probably has an economic "first" lobe I would think, whereas the Camaro SS with OHV seems to have a much more meaty powerband. They both make identical peak power though, even though the LS has like 1.4L or some amount more in displacement.
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EXCELLENT info. I would expect this to be commercial it's so good. Truly. EXCELLENT. Hopefully you get editors who can assist coupling the meat of the content (info) with equivalent video ... Keep it up.
Think New Mind ua-cam.com/channels/5_Y-BKzq1uW_2rexWkUzlA.html
PS:
Wouild shot peening billet rods make up for that ..?
What about doing a final pass of forged rods used on billet ..?
powdered metal rods,7.3 diesel ford.
Titanium rods in a honda 2 stroke!
I hope you included fiber glass in your video...
@@Ramp10er 0
I'm a PhD metallurgist who worked in the jet engine business. You'll hear a lot of nonsense about materials in popular media, but this video was excellent! I especially liked hearing the rarely spoken truth about "billet" parts - better than cast, not as good as forged.
Would the best parts be a combination? For the connecting rods, for example, forge the bottom end and machine the rest of it.
I share your pain. I used to work as a Tool Marker and later i worked for a company that builds centrifuges for waste treatment plants. The number of times i heard people expouse that stainless steel is some kind of wonder material. They think if they use stainless screws they are much stronger.
I wonder if the single crystal casting process used for gas turbine blades would add value for connecting rods.
@@Dave5843-d9m
Possibly, but I question the cost effectiveness. In a production vehicle the currently used scintered and forged rods are perfectly serviceable for threat use. The rod is actually larger when it comes out of the sintering process and when forged ir reduces the volume and increases the density. Another option might be 3D printing using laser sintering of metal powders. This would actually allow the use of two different alloys. Hard and tough on the outside while softer on the inside. People are already doing 3D printer non load bearing components such as intake manifolds. Just how long before we see aftermarket aluminum 3D printed heads and blocks. These would still require a certain amount of machining but IMO would be cost effective in comparision to billet. I suspect that the engine manufacturers are already doing this. Originally 3D printing allowed for rapid production of patterns for casting prototype parts*.
*One of the early 3D printing or stereo lithography techniques used paper rolled out on a platen with a laser cutting out the cross section. Glue on the next layer and tra e the cross section. Rinse and repeat until done. This technique is still around to some degree. There is a company in Ireland that was showing a desktop 3D printer that was combined with an inkjet. The idea is to produce fully colored and finished items
newatlas.com/mcor-iris-paper-3d-printer/32903/
The strongest component in a jet engine is probably the low pressure shaft - a maraging steel, forged. Temperature capability probably OK. Specific strength (accounting for density) is probably highest for Ti-6242 or GE's alloy Ti-17. The single crystal turbine blades are for very high temperature - at that temperature (2000F/1100C) they have ultimate strengths of around 40ksi. At 1400F/760C and below, but above the limits of titanium, a nickel alloy called 718 is best.
But there are design factors that matter - is there room for a low density alloy? Do vibration modes change in the wrong direction with density and modulus changes? And many, many more. Straying from experience is risky, and gets you scrutiny from the Chief Engineer.
Materials scientist / metallurgist here. You did a good job at explaining usefulness for the different alloys! You made one mistake though: When comparing steel against aluminium and titanium, for the application of connecting rods, you have to compare the yield strength of the material, not the tensile strength. The yield strength is the load per unit of area (be that psi or ksi, or MPa) where the material starts to deform permanently. Often you see a value for "0,2% yield strenght", which is the load where your piece will have been loaded so that, after release, it has permanently deformed by 0,2%. Tensile strength (ultimate tensile strength) is the highest load the material can take before it breaks/fails/snaps, which is typically quite a bit higher than the yield stress.
So in the application of a connecting rod, you have to avoid getting stretched or bend rods, so the 0,2% yield strength is the value to compare, not the ultimate tensile strength. You don't need to know when it *breaks* but you do need to know the point where it would *start to deform permanently* .
With regard to the shock absorbing capabilities, what you need to look at is the Young's modulus, or modulus of elasticity. It basically describes the "springiness" of a material in the load range *below* where it gets to deform permanently. Typical steel E-modulus is around 190 GPa (27500 ksi) where Ti-alloys are around 115 GPa (17000 ksi) and your average aluminum/aluminium sits around 70-80 GPa (11000 ksi'ish). So aluminium is indeed acting like a softer spring compared to steel.
Minor detail: galling and fretting are not the same thing. Galling is local cold welding during direct metal-to-metal contact, where the formed weld is stronger than the base material so a tiny part gets ripped out of the counter part, which then causes more damage. Fretting is a form of wear where the sliding distance is really really small (micrometer or mils scale) such as when you have parts in vibrating contact.
good shit
@Chris Farley HAH! First time ever that I get to see "gangster shit" as description of Materials Science 101. But thank you all the same.
@@Hydrazine1000 Just out of curiousity what kind of education/path did you take for learning that? It always interested me but it's probably way out of my league. Great read, thanks!
@@insanebmxthomas I got a MSc in Materials Science & Engineering at Delft Technical University.
Edited to add: a BSc or MSc in mechanical, civil or aeronautical engineering would also get into the fundamentals of how material behaves, this isn't limited to Materials Science & Engineering.
....very good explanation, you definitely know your metallurgy and I too work with steels, HSS HY-80 & HY-100, Inconel or cres steel..
There's a lot to learn about the average steel etc...and you definitely know what you're talking about.
Thank you for you explanation....
I don't know anywhere near as much as you from what you explained.
I am studying engineering but this video taught me a lot more than my college, thanks bro
request money back
even automitive will not teach you this, engineering is just getting to know a bit from a million different technical cases. I study engineering myself and every case is basically enough to calculate with but not enough to be an expert, and i think this stuff is pretty in depth..
Hmmmm, back when I got my BSME, the basis of this video was covered in school (material properties, particularly steel, aluminum other metals and concrete). Mr. Kaleta either 1) hasn’t yet taken the course that covers this, 2) didn’t pay attention on that day, 3) isn’t studying mechanical, chemical or related fields of engineering (although at my school, even the EEs had an into into this) or 4) needs a better school.
@Prophet You do realize that you don't finish a mechanical engineering course in any university worth a damn without first designing mechanical parts right?
"Engineering" is a bit vague as there are about a gazillion different branches of engineering and you wouldn't expect an electronics engineer to know any of this stuff. But you will learn just about all of this in a mechanical or automotive engineering course. In a materials science course you will learn, far, FAR, *FAR* more than this.
I visited a college recently and observed a Level 3 engineering group in a lesson (18-20 yo) - a student asked "What's the difference between stress and strain" the reply alarmed me "There much the same - there's no need to know that" - I learned later the lecturer was being promoted to head of Engineering - I was appalled - it's a fact that many OFSTED inspectors are not themselves competent in the subject they are meant to guarantee standards for.
excellent video. It's very rare for me to find someone with real knowledge in mechanical and metallurgical engineering talking about engines.
One of the only channels you can hit 'like' before actually watching the video, and the most informative, and entertaining automotive channel on UA-cam, in my opinion anyway.
main point of forged aluminum is the shock adsorber effect.. in our top level engines (12,000hp in 500CID) we run the rods until they shrink (get shorter) by our magic number.. This video is pretty spot on .. not sure where he got his info but it is really good... Now the work being done on carbon fibre rods.....
I'm an old piston head and you have done a great job of summing up on connecting rod and there materials...Job well done
This is without a doubt the best explanation anyone could ask for. Huge appreciation for the work you put into this video
Didn't see pressure cast rods mentioned, well worth a mention as a lot of manufacturers used them in the transition period from mass market cast to forged rods. Manufacturers such as Saab and Suzuki were known for using this process.
As a Saab car guy, I haven't heard of that. Are you sure it was Saab?
I can attest to titanium being 'difficult' years ago I was a partner in an engineering company, specialising in heat exchanger components for the petrochemical industry.
We were approached by a customer who had tried to manufacture tube sheets from titanium and failed.
I quoted the job @ 4x what we would ask for stainless steel + a big oops factor and very nearly came short. Eventually though we worked out how to do it and it became the most profitable job we ever did.
I would describe is as trying to machine abrasive toffee to fine tolerances.
What’s the secret?
Heard that a whole new machining industry to be able to machine titanium for the Sr71. Looked like a pain in the backside. Way to engineer your way to success!
Anyone else looking forward to the abrasive toffee connecting rods video?
Jim Kimpton the Real Engineering has a couple of great videos about this... search their channel for “SR-71” or “titanium” if you haven’t seen those already
In my section of the shop we don't machine titanium but from what I've heard about it I wouldn't like machining it.
Titanium work hardens like nothing else, thus peck drilling is a no go, if speeds and feeds ain't perfect along with a regular supply of inserts as to have fresh tips you're going to have a bad time.
Albeit the other side of the factory says doing chromed induction hardened steel like my side does is far worse, 62-65 HRC 10-50 thou deep. I do hate them ceramic inserts but as long as you rotate and change them out per so many parts you're usually good.
Next time I sell a car and someone points any issues, I'll come back with "But as a bonus, it has steel rods. Let me explain why".
Nice and accurate explanation young sir. I have manufactured Connecting rods for almost 12 yrs. prior to retirement. Borg Warner, and GKN sintered metals. Our 4340 rods were forged, (One hit) which came from a powered metal process (compaction), then heat sintered at 1800 deg. F, for 2-2 1/2 hours, and coated in liquid graphite at the end of that process. This process resulted in a "near net" rod with a 7.0 density and required only flash removal, and surface grinding, ID Grinding then shot peened. Each were magna-fluxed or resonate tested for cracks. The Lab did Rockwell, yield strength, tensile and micro structures and overall density. Result, a low cost, well balanced within 5 grms pin to crank end. We made them for all the big car mfg, and aftermarket like Howards. Nascar loved them. In all those years, we never heard of a rod failure due to process or workmanship. We designed the rod for the Z-06 GM platform, down to the 1600 Rod for BMW that went to Brazil. For the cost and durability, I will take one of my rods anytime over Billet Alum, cast, or titanium. Thanks for a great video. Cheers from Motown!
Thanks for the rundown on how you did things! Really nice and interesting insight there
@@d4a Thank you! I loved it when you referred to them as Conrods. Thats exactly what we called them.
Interesting info. Didnt know forged steel will still be the best of all applications.
Your video saved us a lot of money if we just blindly choose the 'best' material for rods.
not all applications. drag racers use aluminum and F1 cars use titanium. low budget performance and non-performance use-cases use steel.
@@sepg5084 so basically if you're not going to be pulling apart your engine every time you push it hard, just use steel, otherwise .. if you do use what ever you want .. although have a nice big chunky bank account backing you up :D
@@sepg5084 i dont know a single drag racer here that use aluminum rods. all of us use 4340.. and some of us go 10s. maybe in the 7s it "matters", but only because they can not make the motor spin with fuel. they need rotating assembly savings to bracket race. which is lame IMO. if you run a 7.9 who TF cares its still a 7. competition can drain these dudes pockets.. im not gonna complain :P
Titanium FTW
You did the engineering of Connecting rods proud. You were spot on. You did your homework
Valve seats, valve guides and valves themselves. Types of which(shapes) and what materials are used for them would be a nice topic for the next video.
I don't understand a thing about cars and engine, but i was so interested in watching your video. You are a great teacher.
Steel really is a wonderful material, isn't it?
Scientist Walter didn’t stick around for the other two?
Pretty sure he did. All things considered, forged steel is still the best material to use for con-rods, except for some very niche applications.
Honestly, unless you are looking to find the last 10 percent of engine output, steel is the best for your rotating assembly
@Chris Farley: Titanium is too brittle material and flexes alot with heat and movement, I'd expect the same with aluminum. Nice name by the way.
@@michaelvann1934: I don't work with steel ever, I work with alot of Titanium and Cobalt. Is there a specific type of steel that works best? or at such low rpm's it doesn't matter at that point, I mean I'm talking about a non high performance engine.
I love the concept of Titanium in everything. Such a great metal.
However for rods, sigh, I can live with the cost, and selecting a good set of forged rods rather billet. But ! The galling and notching issues versus the now minimal weight offset leaves me thinking forged steel for now until someone comes up with a better Ti alloy.
Great content.
Titanium rods are normally 25-35% lighter than steel, so that's a big difference. Today's coatings also have very high impact resistance, so galling and notching are far less problematic than non-coated rods. Not sure about the fatigue life though.
Jesus christ I learn more about metals in this 20min video then a year in weilding school. Once again your the best thx for your hard work benefiting all of us engine/engineering nuts!
you'd learn a lot more if you spend a bit of time googling for knowledge.
@@sepg5084 Every masturbator is a know-it-all.
Yea ,machinist class skipped over this like black history month. lol I didn't learn this till I worked in a metallurgical testing lab. I did see an instructor catch titanium on fire. That was fun.
yep only things i lernt in school were durning practical works and internship xD
Too bad you didn't learn English in school, either.
what a brilliant explaintion; geez for an ESL bloke you explained this better than most could! Well done!
I actually learned something!!! This was engineering explained done properly
My days of building motors is well past but I still love informative video's like this.
I am immeasurably happy that I found this channel.
This channel is underrated.
You made me think again about machining a titanium rod for my motorcycle. Very informative
This was very interesting. I learned a lot. I view these materials through a cycling lens. Some people ask what material is best, and I tell them it depends on how you plan on using it. I think the same responce applies here. I've ridden bicycles made out of all of these metals. 6/4 or sometimes 3/2.5 Titanium is much preferred because of its flexibility and resistance to corrosion. 7000 series aluminum is very stiff but has a tendency to crack under repeated stress loads. Aluminum tubes for bicycles are very thin and have a tendency to dent very easily. Thanks.
Also a cyclist, worth noting that aluminium isn't really stiffer than ti. The "traditional" oversized tube frames that alu is made into is what gave aluminium its reputation for stiffness.
Aluminium also isn't a material that handles repeated bending well in the long-term so oversized tubes that are stiffer and don't bend much were a way to create frames that lasted.
Some of the original aluminium frames by Vitus had thin tubes that were of a similar diameter to traditional steel tubes and were known to be way too flexible.
I'm not an engine expert, but you pretty much nailed the differences between alloys of steel, aluminum and titanium. Great explanation. Titanium also has pretty low thermal conductivity which can be helpful at times.
This lack of thermal conductivity makes it difficult for machining. I saw tungsten carbide inserts glowing while cooled with emulsion at quite low cutting speeds. With other materials a lot of heat goes in the part and the chips.
Does anyone else have brain fluid leaking after watching his videos? So informative and entertaining, I accidentally learned something.
Aneurism
I found a old brass rod on my farm when I tore down a barn. Pretty cool looking . Probably from some old tractor.
I'm 52 years old and I thought I was pretty knowledgeable about performance components of engines, I have been wrong, you have given me an education about engine performance internals. Thanks
Just want to say how much i respect your video quality and in depth explanations. Ive been trying to learn about cars specifically hondas and your k series motor break downs were awesome !
Best explanation on connecting rod history I've ever seen. What a great job Sir! Thanks for the lessons.
great video as always, the only thing i will say is that the vast majority of oem rods are SINTER forged which is entirely different than traditional forging. far and above stronger than cast, but not as strong as a traditional forging. oems have used this process for years now because it is fast and easy and cheap (relatively speaking) and requires very little finish machining. even performance and workhorse engines like the vast majority of gm gen 3/4 and even gen 5 use sinter forged rods with the exceptions being high performance variants such as the ls7 and 9 among others.
Well… LS7 and 9 are forged titanium
Another great video. I pass these on to my 16 yo son who is a next gen car guy thanks!
Your English is excellent. Love hearing the accent and to hear aluminum instead of aluminium. Context is great too.
As always, great and clear explanations on the subject. I love the way you manage to condense important parts of the "scientific" aspect of a topic into something a car enthusiast without an engineering degree can understand.
Your videos give a good overview of what matters which enables me to quite easily dive deeper in the subject by my own. Just the simple fact that now I know which words to Google thanks to your vids is very helpful and helped me to gather quite good knowledge and understanding of particular subjects.
Keep up the good work!
This was the best I've EVER seen to explain in PLAIN, easy to understand, language on the 3 different types of connecting rods in the performance world!
Thank you for this, While I'll never be able to AFFORD titanium in any of my vehicles, still I found this BOTH entertaining AND informative all around!
You are AWESOME my friend... SIMPLY AWESOME!!!
THANK YOU!!!
Thank you for that awesome comment!
Once again! The best car channel on UA-cam! Congrats
Always wondered what pitfalls titanium rods have. Thanks, I did know about price and machining.
Very nice explanation, very clear and easy to listen. Thank you.
This gentleman made this video so easy to watch and understand. Excellent job.
This was very informative because I've been looking to have titanium rods installed in my "street" car. I'm more concerned about reducing reciprocating mass than beefing it up for more power. Less moving mass will organically free up more engine power.
also for motorbikes you can make a huge difference by reducing the reciprocating mass
An additional advantage is that reducing rotating and/or reciprocating mass (of which rods count as both) will potentially reduce shift times, assuming you're using a manual transmission at least.
Same idea as if you changed to a performance clutch with a smaller diameter and therefore smaller moment of inertia.
Do it. LS7’s are magic
I thought I knew about billet but this takes it over the top, and wasn't boring at all, good work on the video graphics
In the early 70;s I heard of a Matchless G50 fitted with an early Titanium rod - it worked great for a season however the following season it snapped - I inquired why and was told it "Age Hardens"
Depends on the alloy and should be taken into consideration when designing the dimensions.
my father says they fabricated titanium rods in the 70s for some of the BMW race bikes and they only got it to work once they put an aluminum cap on it to help absorb the harmonic distortions that would fracture the titanium. tiny little rods with massive caps lol
A&P here who can attest to titanium age hardening. Some of our rivets had to be kept in the freezer to keep them from hardening. You only had about twenty minutes to drive them or they would crack. On the other side of the coin, the titanium alloys used in turbines last thousands of hours without fail. Wouldn't use it for connecting rods unless absolutely necessary. Even small aircraft piston engines still use I or H beam forged steel rods for longevity.
Great video... most interesting.. part for me.. was the term or phrase.. for galling back... in the old days of 1979 to about 1986.. some old timers. And my dad ... being one of them ... used the term.. scoaring... a type of damage.. do to heat pressure and or friction..... thanks man have a good day. ...
Man your vids are just the best. Excellent info, entertaining, well presented, easy to understand. Keep up the awesome work.
Fantastic video. Full of information and straight to the point. My dad was a machinist and he hated titanium.
NOTHING beats steel rods and flywheels for long-term reliability. Also you get no Torque-loss.
Forged ftw!
Just gives you a bit of short lived acceleration gains... so driving uphill with a friend in the car means you have to rev harder to maintain your speed.
As a machinist, I can say you are 100% correct that we all hate machining titanium. Thank you for including that section.
This channel deserved a Millions of Subscriber.
I have zero knowledge about this and the video explanation is very easy to understand.
Your presentation and enunciation is excellent for a second language. Cheers
As a CNC programmer and machinist, I've worked with alot of different alloys and Titanium is a bitch to work with. It's so strange in that it's "gummy", yet tough as hell. Unlike machining steel where you can tell your tool is wearing, with Titanium, the tool fails quickly and usually catastrophically. Luckily alot of newer machines you can set parameters to monitor "load". So as a tool starts to fail, the load on the machine tool motor starts to increase, and if setup properly, the machine will issue an alarm before the tool fails. I must say, a properly machined titanium part is a thing of beauty.
Some people who machine titanium are using cryogenics to super cool the material and thus able to machine a lot easier. The Russians were the leader in making titanium; machining, fabricating and welding it. Their airplanes and rocket were mostly titanium.
Very rare I learn anything new from a youtube video. Did not know that forged rods have a slightly strong large end than billet. Neat
We enthusiasts have only one heart, how many times will you win it?
as many as I pick my nose in a day... ;-o
@@raft5205 So many boogers....have you thought about getting a humidifier? LOL Less boogers and no bloody nose. hehehe
@@theodoremarakas9899 are you greek? And a fellow biker too?? 😁
@@raft5205 YES on both. That's a great guess, how did you know?
@@raft5205 I have a bunch of bikes, BMW F800, Aprilia Tuono, KTM duke, Moto Guzzi V9, etc.
This is the best car engineering youtube channels !
I've learned a lot of metallurgy knowledge from you thanks!!
Very well done. You hit on almost every detail in the differences between these 3 connecting rod materials. You even taught me a couple things in the titanium connecting rod department. Although, you were perpetuating old wives tales when it comes to modern aluminum rods. Yes, they will not last for 100k miles at 200hp per rod but, they have made huge advances in longevity. They will easily go 10k miles in a high power application before needing to be checked. Their advantages now outweigh their disadvantages in many high-extreme power street cars.
Machined forged rods should be the best choice .
Im so happy you dumb things down and draw pictures because if not i would have a very hard time understanding this. Thanks lots
I've been a machinist for over 20 years and most of that time I have been cutting Ti6Al4V. It's honestly pretty nice to machine. Granted you have to use the right tooling and you can't tear through it like aluminum. But it is far better to work with than 316lvm or cobalt chrome.
Congratulations? You machine one of the most common Ti alloys ever....
I've been told nickel-chrome alloys (Inconel) are very difficult too
You put a lot research into this video and it's definitely appreciated. Excellent content.
Literally have my old LS7 in pieces, sitting in my garage, complete with OE forged Ti rods. Those hypercraptastic pistons just don’t like boost.
We run some quite high boost on some of our engines,some with the 'hypercraptastic' pistons still fitted,we built a single turbo V6 duratec with around 9.5:1 cr on low-ish 7-9 lbs boost on 70,000 mile factory H/t pistons,expecting a short life,It's had four years of moderate abuse without protest so far and have heard tale of some people running silly boost with them with no issues.I've also seen them broken on na engines,conversely I have seen a few engines using decent aftermarket uprated parts destroyed through poor application of those parts,bad/poor machining tolerances,poor building practise etc.
Haha HT pistons can take plenty boost if the tune is right, ran stock ‘93 5.0 short block, victor jr heads with low/mid 20psi for 3yrs until the cam pin sheared from the cam bolt stretching/harmonics then upgraded everything. And was well over the claimed max 500whp too
For someone that loves cars & horse power but is Mechanically ignorant (LIKE ME) this was a very informative video. THANK YOU!
What some just don't seem to understand is a real H beam rod and forged piston may also be a lot lighter than stock units. For me in my Nissan Ca18det engine, i saved over 1hg per unit over stock. What will that be in 9.000rpm!?
A lot i would say.
You're videos are very comprehensive. Nicely done! 👍
15:30 - Slight correction: You can't use RAW titanium in any application where metal parts are sliding against each other. Titanium that is coated with titanium nitride (gold-colored), aluminum-titanium nitride (deep purple colored), titanium carbo-nitride (grey colored), or diamond-like carbon (shiny black colored) can be used in sliding applications with no risk of damage. And technically raw titanium can also be used in sliding applications as long as it's lubricated with extra-fancy oil and the load isn't too high, but obviously that doesn't apply inside a car engine. *EDIT: Nevermind, you eventually explained the coatings.*
How long do the coatings last on titanium
@@liammiddleton3064 those coatings are done on some wicked drill bits, i guess its not too bad
Yeah, titanium has an exceptionally high friction like silver, doesn't it? I forget the technical term. There's also a different for some materials between friction of like materials and dissimilar.
@@liammiddleton3064 I presume that they're effectively indefinite since there's no sliding contact with the rod surface
@@benjaminmcintosh857 i have no idea
seriously this site does a great job explaining things that even a simpleton like me can understand
You sir are doing a great job! Your theory is strong and your relaying of info is engaging and well thought out. Thank you for carrying on!
Missed seeing that cat avatar of yours. How you doin?
@@d4a that's my cat, Oliver is his name. Doing well. Still working despite this covid stuff. Hope all is well over there. You still working?
Glad I watched this. I was considering titanium connecting rods for my VW bus, but I'll order forged steel instead.
U don't even leave one small detail out! Thanks!
J’ai appris plein de choses sur le Titane. Bravo bien expliqué,
Huge fan of the detailed analysis! You should cover timing belts vs. timing chains.
Thanks for the idea!
@@d4a also add in there gear drives
@@porterarthur659 Don't forget shaft driven camshafts like the Kawasaki W800
@@mememaster147 also the old-school four-cylinder drive shaft gear driven Porsche type 547, 587 and 692 engine
EXCELLENT presentation. Great script, good pace, and very informative.
As a machinist, can confirm that titanium sucks
Yup i totaly agree 😅
it burns pretty
The shear strength sucks too. In terms of machining a lot depends on the tooling. The worst stuff I've worked with is nearly pure copper. In fact most metal in a nearly pure state machine like horse dung. Soft and gummy.
@@embalmed
Toxic too as I recall
and cost too much, even when they were one of the most abundant element on earth and be easily be forge under modern technique, they just simply overprice.
love the way he Explains the Pros and Cons
This was well presented .Perhaps it could be helpful to tell people as with all materials out there Ti also comes in various grades .
Magnificent delivery. You are a fantastic communicator. I learned more today from you than anything else.
I am impressed with not only your knowledge but also the way of representation. keep up the good job.
Beautifully explained, in very clear script and delivery. Thanks.
"Measure me baby" hahaha this was a great video. Never knew titanium was notch sensitive thats very cool. Awesome work as always man :)
Very interesting video. Thank you. My sole machining interaction with titanium was to replace the steel clip on bars on my motorcycle with it. I started with a 510mm length of 22mm OD 18mm ID tube and tried to cut that into two 250mm lengths but even though the chuck was turning real slow it still locally hardened so I had to resort to a grinding disc to finish the cut (but I was able to easily face the tube ends afterwards, strange stuff titanium). Both tubes needed a 5mm hole in them to securely locate the throttle and switches but the first hole I cut ended up oversize (I used a 5mm end mill). On the second tube I used a 4.5mm end mill and finished to size with a HS steel drill bit (that worked perfectly).
Seems like you need a lot of cutting fluid (I used oil), continuous pressure, sharp tools, and slow speed. You can't afford to let the machining heat the part or it immediately hardens (titanium is a poor conductor of heat for a metal so overheating is easy but local). High speed steel tools are fine just so long as the cut is not allowed to create too high a temperature.
Oh and titanium burns. When it burns water will not put it out (the oxygen in H2O feeds the fire) so be careful (dry sand will smother the fire).
This is good stuff. The Tubes are full of all kinds of mediocrity but this seems all Gold. I'll be back.
Exactly zero bullshit.
you sir, are an excellent orator. great enunciation and flow. perfect to impart information understandably.
You pack so much useful information into each video and make it all clearly, easily understandable. Great job, love your channel!!
Galling happened in my LS7. Glad you covered it
I was going to sleep but now i want steel forged rods in my engine.
If your running a NA engine you dont need them, only forced air engines can take advantage of them, so dont waste your time and money!
Not really digging into engine parts specifically, but your materials engineering insights are great! Thanks for sharing!
Nice one, my friend. Excellent presentation as usual!
Excellent presentation. Complete and comprehensible.
I don't care how much it costs; I want to get a machinist make a Jell-O connecting rod. Just one, just to say I got it.
Man i love your videos they are so in detail in such a compact time..
Worth every second
haven't clicked this fast for a while !, awesome content. keep it up
excellent work speacial thanks from Turkey👍👌best professional engineering channel ever...
Holy shit that’s my camaro at 10:30ish. Had a bad start then missed 3rd lol. Got lucky the blue car red lit haha.
Another excellent video on this application use for rods. This guy is real good at what he produces in his (2) videos that I have seen thus far! Thank you, J
The GM powdered metal rods are decent as well. They are good to 500 HP.
That’s an understatement. Many people reliably get 800+ from the stock sintered rods
roller beearing engines oil injected.
9:50 shout out to 1320 and Jeff Lutz old 200mph 1/8 mile rocketship
An episode of OHV(pushrod) vs. DOHC or SOHC would be cool
What about 2 stroke?www.4btswaps.com/attachments/2cyclesbc-jpg.6839/, im not a 4 joke person!
Agreed. I'm a big fan of overhead camshafts.
@@bicyclist2 But with modern head designs, pushrod v-8s can get 100 hp per liter NA. But the OHV "weapon" has always been about putting a lot of displacement into a small and lightweight package (rather than maximizing volumetric efficiency). Now that they're not giving up so much on the specific output front, they make a tremendous amount of HP for the mass and volume of the total package.
I am running an 8.2 liter (502ci) LS. It's pretty giggle-inducing way of producing ~800 crank HP. It's always in the right gear. It only weights 550 lbs including flywheel and clutch.
I've loved a lot of 4-valve motors over the years, but none of them deliver power in such an easy to use manner as something that makes its power through greater displacement.
All that said, if other packaging considerations demand an inline or horizontally opposed motor, DOHC all the way. But judging by UA-cam, an LS will fit in anything.
@@yzScott I feel like DOHC could do better though for peak power. OHV seem to only benefit larger displacements (FCA hemis, Chevy's LS) because the lack of cam manipulation (cam profiles, etc.) as an effect has the car draw out more power throughout the range since they lack an "economic" or "less agressive" camshaft profile and all (ex: vtec, vvti, vanos,etc.) and are stuck on a medium-aggresive lobe, whereas DOHC or SOHC has mutiple levels. You can see how in Coyote people complain it lacks low end -- probably has an economic "first" lobe I would think, whereas the Camaro SS with OHV seems to have a much more meaty powerband. They both make identical peak power though, even though the LS has like 1.4L or some amount more in displacement.
The Aluminum expands twice as fast because it has a higher CTE. I LOVE THIS CHANNEL