If you haven't read it, you must take a look at Thomas Sowell's Vision of the Anointed. He did a brilliant breakdown of this subject around 20 years ago. It is stunning given the direction of politics and social justice has traveled in the succeeding years since its publication.
Yes, Sowell is one of the best. I started reading his books years ago, and he is always spot-on. In addition to his analysis of the leftist and (so-called) intellectual mind-set, he has also written some good books on the issues of education and race in America.
Kubrick I absolutely agree. I'd take it farther and say, hate is normal too, but it's what we do with it that counts, including letting it fester inside us. I'm so tired of hearing every thought and action should be passive and loving. We aren't wired that way. Yes, I WORK toward peacefullness and positive regard for all humans. But while I grow emotionally and spiritually, I'm still human and just don't think there is anything wrong with hating evil.
linda clark I feel hate & anger sometimes too, but I project it at a punch bag, not people. By evil, do you mean left wing or ring wing people? Or what particularly? I don't agree with you, btw. Being in a loving facade isn't good, but being emotionally irresponsible doesn't just mean "good rage", as I can demonstrate. I believe your stance has very negative effects. I put to you that it is illogical to project anger at someone else in a political interaction. Why? Well what happens when it is done to you? Note that anger is never necessary to make a logical argument, and ALWAYS interferes with both people understanding the issue at hand, ESPECIALLY making people resistive to changing their minds....does it not? Also, when some someone projects anger at you, doesn't it either control & manipulate you -if you are afraid of it (& so the growth or can be is fake) OR you want to act against the person being angry & demanding? Anger may be better (when it is based on something real, tangible & factual & with a clear goal), than apathy. But ppl like MLK showed that "Love your enemy" was actually more practical. Just consider how you react when your adversaries are angry, demanding, emotionally manipulative or controlling toward you. Doesn't really help does it? Is that not true?
I know brother thats what Im saying. I am swedish-canadian man, canada isn't any better and I would argue its worse. If sweden is castrated then canada had no balls to begin with. Nikola was trying to tell me that we are castrated as swedes so i asked him if he was castrated.
Sweden is surrounded by larger, more powerful nations so will always be castrated by Russia, Germany, France, UK. Canada started off castrated as a colony of the French, became castrated again as a colony of the British, and is now castrated as a colony of the U.S. The Quebecois and Swedes are doubly castrated because they have to speak to each other in American English on American servers in the Bay area. I suppose bitching about people with dark skin lets them think of their petty nationalism as important. Really. it means nothing. Seriously, what is it with these Swedish nationalists? They want to go back to sacking Irish monasteries and Roman cities like in the Middle Ages? They used to actually make their own jet fighters and cars; now they buy the same NATO crap as everyone else.
LOL ,,,, Sweden has no violence compared to the U.S. The only Tarantino movie in that part of the world is written by angry people like Brevik in Norway.
Europeans are going to be the new refugees and they will be coming to Hungary, Poland, The Czech Republic and Slovakia, and Swedes are going to be the first to come.
Interesting to hear him say that marxists, socialists, and radical feminists are considered(to him atleast, and maybe many others) to be "classically left, and liberal. It's always intriguing to see the vast difference between the left/right paradigm in North America, and Europe.. it makes more sense the further down the rabbit hole we go in the states, and Canada..
True multiculturalism is _pluralism,_ wherein a plurality of cultures and a plurality of values are tolerated, but only to the extent they never impede or supersede the native culture and the native values of their adopted country, one nice enough to take in others as one of their own, out of the kindness of their hearts.
This point I CONSTANTLY stress over & over. Europe has ALREADY been multiculturalist for centuries. For example we had the English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, descendants of French & Scandinavians all coexisting together while keeping their independent cultures. We had different Germanic States & Italian States coexisting for centuries before either Nation was official formed. Lombards living in pre-Italy with, Venetians & Sicilians. Bavarians with people from Lower Saxony in pre-Germany. Spaniards with Catalunyans & Galicians & Basques. That was real multiculturalism. What we have now is the Colonization of the indigenous Europeans. If these groups who were closely linked in genetics and a common Proto-Culture had CONFLICTS with each other, what would adding groups from ACROSS THE GLOBE do? Such a great continent and people hurt in my mind irrevocably. Our ancestors literally fought & perished for nothing. What a sad sight indeed :(.
Multiculturalism works if the cultures, more or less, share the same values. Intercultural European mixing wouldn't be much of a problem. But, when you take in a culture that is vastly different than the dominant culture you are going to have something we call: a 'bad time'.
Multiculturalism only works with truely liberal culturals. Cultures that don't value individual rights are inherently authoritarian and have to be utterly rejected outright with full intolerance. Cultures that want to assimilate to liberal values can retain other aspects of their culture, but not authoritarian ones. This is the incompatibility issue between Islamists and western cultures. People that take Islam literally believe that you're justified in killing gay people, or abusing women, or killing apostates. These are not ideals any classic liberal should be tolerant of.
" . . . a plurality of values are tolerated" This is a myth. The immigrant cultures are always expected to speak the language of the host country, so that's not tolerance, but an expectation of conformity. The SJWs are hypocritical.
Fascinating. A great discussion which reassures me there are still some sensible people around. Gandhi said 'I could be a minority of one, but the truth is the truth'.
Robert Putnam is a utopian if he says "we must create".Look at also all non-western cultures that are endogamous and there is an absent of a civilsociety because non-related are seen as strangers. This is within ethnic groups with the same ethnicity and religion. If Robert Putnam thinks that people from those cultures will be more open and solidaric in an environment that is more alien. Humans have an inborn bias towards familiarity that is seen in experiments with 6.month old babies done at the "Yale Baby lab". 85% of them showed a bias towards familiarity. We are likely to be born that way.
Language is important here, I think. It isn't that some people are trying to make people better, it is that some people are trying to make other people be more like themselves. They may think they are better, but this point should not be assumed to be true. I don't believe even that their intentions are "good". How can pushing an ideology on others be good? I'd guess that, on some level, they know this is for their convenience, rather than being truly for the good. Doesn't matter though: forcing ideology on others is not good, cannot be good, and the idea that it can be good is absurd.
He is clearly emotionally shook up by how he has been treated/where Sweden is heading.. Rarely does one witness such strong nonverbal signalling of despair as putting both hands to cover chin/mouth area (from 3:19 onwards).
I know a social worker with a Masters degree. She believes that blacks don't commit more crimes and that IQ"s aren't different among racial and ethnic groups. She's dead wrong on both counts but her utopian multicultural vision can't be disturbed by facts. It disturbs me to talk to her and I'm not sure what to do about it.
Approacher her with this: X came up to me and asked this question: Really uncomfortable question I couldn't answer it. What IS the answer to that question?
Ozzy Girl it sounds like she sees the argument differently: You are brining facts to prove why she should be evil. The God called multiculturalism must be slain first. The problem with this is the existential angst that may cause. Just read the full quote from Nietzsche about god being dead... To sum it up: Make sure you have an argument about facts and not good vs evil.
I'm definitely frustrating myself and I'm almost certain no matter what evidence I show her, it will be discarded without a glance. Her belief system is who and what she is. My facts can't and don't exist in her world. It's best just to let it go.
Ozzy Girl I would not consider this person a good friend. She would be little more than a casual acquaintance. You can't convince someone to change a deeply held belief, no matter how delusional.
Weird, in Denmark i experienced two women and a child who "fell off a balcony" the child survived, the women didn't, and that was in the same building where different minorities lived.
I always enjoy Gad Saad and his interesting guests. The discussion is not always easy to follow, not because it lacks anything but definition of terms. Example, around 21 minute mark you hear the clarification of the 2 versions of multiculturalism, might have been mentioned earlier (maybe I missed it). Great channel, keep up the good work.
Fascinating discussion. I get the feeling that the West sees Sweden as the canary down the coalmine when it comes to multi-cultural socialism. Think of how wonderful the canary's song is as it goes further and further down....until the grim reality sets in. It's great to see so many Swedes acknowledging and confronting this.
Gad could explain very easy why Stewart Mill is hard to abuse and why Nietzsche isn't. Not because Mill is better, but because very few speak German, but many speak English, or what is left of English. Btw, which European countries are addicted to English? Maybe Norway and Sweden? In my country there is at least a correlation observable of English and insanity. The same goes for Europe as a whole, East Germany & Poland are the line where sanity begins. While we learned English, they learned Russian.
At 12 minutes this discussion makes me think of jordan peterson discussing the gulag archipelago where the imprisoned party loyalists would stick to their ideology.
As a Swede, I think Göran Adamson forgets about our hard-core protestant heritage. Not so long ago, Swedes crouched under guilt and shame from the original sin. Now, we've changed gods but it's kind of nice to hunker under guilt as well as getting whipped for your sins. Beat me, beat me, make me feel...
Very true. Liberal post-colonial sense of guilt is the perfect stand-in for old and forgotten religious mores.. "We have stopped believing in God, but we have not stopped believing". G. K. Chesterton
Smartest comment ever for today. I actually had a satori, all the "white guilt" happens mostly in protestant countries, France being one exception. Catholics are moderate in this: Spain, Italy are less SJW; Orthodox don't give a shit about it at all: Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia etc. Interesting
Gad Saad is one of the few people on the internet who gets that the real battle is with any Utopian ideology, be it Islamist, Communist, Nazi, Fascist, or whatever. Utopianism creates a kind of neurosis in those who embrace it as they see the contrast in reality with their arbitrary, subjective, widely varied ideas of perfection.
Great conversation. I think that what people who speak out about censorship, secular religion and compartmentalized thinking have in common is that they have a single and solidly rooted moral center, not one that slithers around to match whatever climate it finds itself in. The inability to recognize internal contradictions of the type that Orwell wrote about so well is, I believe, the mark of an enslaved mind.
I hope Prof Adamson does a chapter offering guidance and insight for academia outside Sweden. Adorable how he flinches ever so slightly when Prof Saad said the book was coming out in 2018, as if he's feeling a bit behind schedule, or something.
Goran! I feel for you! Stay strong! One of my closest (once) friends works for the Swedish academia and he has become a person like the co-workers you describe. To me it was mind-boggling that a person can actually change so much, particularly if you consider the experiences he and I had to go through when we were younger. People do stupid things for all kinds of reasons. But when they use reason to commit them there is no justification for that. Life is a painful path. I'm sure Gad will show you some light at the end of the tunnel.
As Jonathan Haidt points out, they have positions that can be asserted but not supported. And they also don't realize that they have values, and those values can compete. It's insanity.
What scares me is that even he still shows hints of the self destructive, hyper-maleable Scandinavian mentality when he says "Children show me I am wrong all the time. I learn from children." No you don't, or you better don't, man. You are an adult. You were a child and you grew out of it, collecting experiences and strength you now have to use. Now it is your job to teach and guide children and be stern and steadfast for them, so they can see you as a fixed, steady authority. That doesn't mean they can't question your authority at some point and rebell against it, but they need a father figure, they need culture and rituals and they need discipline. This "I'm open to anything! I'm a feather in the wind! Let's fly to Kurrekurredutt together!" mentality is what ruined Sweden. (Guess I should explain that one... I'm not Swedish, but I grew up with Pipi Longstocking stories and movies and Kurrekurredutt apparently is the original Swedish name of the mythical island where her father was marooned. It had a different name in the translations I grew up with.) I'm afraid the Swedes will need to find some stubborness and a healthy dose of chauvinism if they want to survive this. Chauvinism has become such a dirty word in every context nowadays, but I think it actually is neccessary. What is the point of maintaining and developing your culture and your identity if you don't believe it is better than others? Thinking they are better than others has always been what motivated people to actually be and do better than others. Every big civilisation and empire in the history of the world was guided and driven by a sense of superiority and chauvinism. It might be ugly, but it literally is the most healthy and successful mindset a group of people can have, as long as it doesn't totally blind them to certain dangers. People who spend too much time admiring other people's culture and art, don't do too well in creating and developing their own. You can see that in the cultural dominance Hollywood has over European media. Are there no creative people left in Europe who could make their own Hollywood? No. The problem is that those who exist are too busy imitating creative people in the USA and apeing American art and of course they don't do American culture as well as the Americans do, so they pale in comparison and look amateurish.
I don't think it's inherently SJW-ish to say this. Children (depends on the age and circumstances of course) have not yet been tainted (or if they have, at least it is to a lesser degree) by propaganda, prevailing mores, their parents' beliefs, etc. In a word - ideologies. So you CAN learn from them, because they are more "pure", and experience the world in what I would call a more honest way. Generally I agree with your point, but his comment could be taken in a number of ways, and you may have latched onto the meaning you have been primed to find, taking recent developments into account.
I heard a feature on Sky News earlier today talking about the growing mental health crisis and royalty being involved as advocates, one thing that struck me was the never ending obsession with "young people's mental and physical well-being"! They just do not get it, my generation X have created a Frankenstein's monster in their own children and still they want to continue to coddle them and wrap them up in cotton wool instead of toughening them up in preparation for the trials and tribulations of life! My generation have utterly failed their own children!
George Santayana on Progress Progress far from consisting in change is dependent on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
The craziness has escaped the universities. November 8th their is a massive call to go out and scream. I have family members and friends who have become hysterical. Every terror attack they worry about those poor marginalized Muslims. I am 58 years old. I am not a student. Here in the the NW in America there are plenty who have that syndrome and none of them are in university
I don't think OPS is limited to the acadamy Doc. Seems like there's plenty of it to go around in the press and leftist governments and recent grad types.
The groundwork was laid by David Schwartz, a Jewish emigree and opinionmaker. www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2013/01/14/the-jewish-origins-of-multiculturalism-in-sweden/ svenska.yle.fi/artikel/2015/02/12/da-sverige-blev-mangkulturellt
Yes, the brilliance of universities was the enlightenment inheritance of pushing out/pushing aside religious and political dogmas in the pursuit of truth and knowledge. But new dogmas replaced the old ones, and the basic drives for power, security, approval and agreement.
Those that think that they have a Utopian answer, are far less likely to be self-critical, because they don't want their emotional safety blanket to be tugged away from them. They'd rather have the comfort of their own ignorance, (wilful or otherwise) than deal with the uncomfortable aspects that reality can bring.
Life is very dangerous. Children know this, and in part are aware of it because they are small and vulnerable. Their parents are there protect Doris. If the parent doesn’t get angry when the child is stomped on by an evil giant, the child feels she has no allies in a dangerous world. When parents feel only sad when their daughter is raped, the daughter has every right to Hold the parents in contempt and develop a greater distrust for the world.
What about the Winter War ? Germany, Sweden, Finland against the Soviet Union? This is why Sweden was never invited into NATO, that plus supplying Germany with all manner of raw material during the war.
El Dorado is a kind of mirage, ultimately. It is the fabled city of gold that the Spanish heard referenced in South America, and they looked for it, but in vain.
Gad Saad, I know this is off-topic, but I have a question/request: could you and Bret Weinstein have a discussion (maybe even a debate) about which aspects of Edward Wilson's classic 'Sociobiology' (1975) have held up (and haven't held up)-and which aspects of Marshall Sahlins' 'The Use and Abuse of Biology: An Anthropological Critique of Sociobiology' (1976) have held up (and haven't held up)-and why? I've recently reread both, and both made great sense. So now I'm curious to know which aspects of each man's text have held up (or not), and why.
In Canada multiculturalism was established as a political tool. In 1994 Penguin Books published "Selling Illusions - The Cult of Multiculturalism in Canada" by Neil Bissoondath. In his book, Mr. Bissoondath explores the topics of turning people into political tools, twisting historical differences into stereotypes; selling exoticism; and, dividing the country for political purposes - namely to try to ensure a continuing constant reelection of the Liberal Party. I believe a revised edition was published in 2002. Regarding academics, what they are most interested in is funding. In order to get funding, your proposed area of research has to be approved by professors and academics in your field. Hence the great pressure to conform politically; and also not stray too far into the unknown. So far as left versus right academics are concerned, Jordan Peterson doesn't address this topic directly but he does mention in one his lectures that leftists generally score higher on openness (reference the OCEAN personality model), while conservatives tend to score higher on conscientiousness. (Reflecting on this for moment, it seems that Prof. Saad and Prof. Adamson would both be fairly rare in scoring high in both openness and conscientiousness.)
Guys, do you think it might boil down to most people merely wanting attention? I know the easiest way to garner attention is to be involved with some category of ideological victims; but when it comes to why, the answer is social media, the biggest attention seeker out there.
part of the problems with modern university is that its become too democratic or available to the average person. That makes it more subject to the whims of the democratic desires, politics and religion or worse, a political religion
Something to think about is that some people are equally triggered by Adam Smith and John Stewart Mill and John Locke, as others are triggered by Karl Marx et. al.
In the late 60s early 70s, we were a kind of SJW bunch of the day. We graduated in the decade of the 70s and times were tough. We were quick to learn that the marketplace does not care and we needed to concentrate on what mattered.
There's a refuge for Swedes tired of the direction of their country in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. The language is different, but they might not even know that they've left home.
If you haven't read it, you must take a look at Thomas Sowell's Vision of the Anointed. He did a brilliant breakdown of this subject around 20 years ago. It is stunning given the direction of politics and social justice has traveled in the succeeding years since its publication.
Sowell is a real thinker. Which means he has a lot of courage. I will look for Vision of the Anointed - intriguing title!
Yes, Sowell is one of the best. I started reading his books years ago, and he is always spot-on. In addition to his analysis of the leftist and (so-called) intellectual mind-set, he has also written some good books on the issues of education and race in America.
There isn't a damn thing wrong with ANGER! It's what we DO with our anger that counts.
linda clark and i think suppressing anger or any strong emotions will lead to nothing but trouble
Kubrick I absolutely agree. I'd take it farther and say, hate is normal too, but it's what we do with it that counts, including letting it fester inside us. I'm so tired of hearing every thought and action should be passive and loving. We aren't wired that way. Yes, I WORK toward peacefullness and positive regard for all humans. But while I grow emotionally and spiritually, I'm still human and just don't think there is anything wrong with hating evil.
linda clark
I feel hate & anger sometimes too, but I project it at a punch bag, not people.
By evil, do you mean left wing or ring wing people? Or what particularly?
I don't agree with you, btw.
Being in a loving facade isn't good, but being emotionally irresponsible doesn't just mean "good rage", as I can demonstrate. I believe your stance has very negative effects.
I put to you that it is illogical to project anger at someone else in a political interaction.
Why? Well what happens when it is done to you?
Note that anger is never necessary to make a logical argument, and ALWAYS interferes with both people understanding the issue at hand, ESPECIALLY making people resistive to changing their minds....does it not?
Also, when some someone projects anger at you, doesn't it either control & manipulate you -if you are afraid of it (& so the growth or can be is fake) OR you want to act against the person being angry & demanding?
Anger may be better (when it is based on something real, tangible & factual & with a clear goal), than apathy. But ppl like MLK showed that "Love your enemy" was actually more practical.
Just consider how you react when your adversaries are angry, demanding, emotionally manipulative or controlling toward you. Doesn't really help does it?
Is that not true?
spoken like a true jedi!
Thomas K YES! The Force is strong in me! Hahahhahahahahhah!
You can see the sadness in Goran's face throughout thhis video. Tragic.
Man, this guy is good. Great Guest Gadfather. (Triple G).
Bill Mayhew trpple O-G
Why has "GGG" not become a thing yet?
It's easy to type, quick to read, and requires inside information to understand. (hence preying on tribalism)
The «hypercivilised» hypothesis is brilliant. I stand behind that!
That was Rudyard Kipling's opinion of British morals. H G Wells took the opposite view: Britons were not civilized enough.
"Boutique Multiculturalism". LOL, I love that phrase.
:), so happy I have found these guys, I feel so alone here with everyone in my family and friends supporting Islam. ;(
He has to hide his laugh when you said "the land of the castrated in Sweden". What a great start.
?
The real joke is that the remark was made by a Canadian.
är du kastrerade då?
I know brother thats what Im saying. I am swedish-canadian man, canada isn't any better and I would argue its worse. If sweden is castrated then canada had no balls to begin with. Nikola was trying to tell me that we are castrated as swedes so i asked him if he was castrated.
Sweden is surrounded by larger, more powerful nations so will always be castrated by Russia, Germany, France, UK. Canada started off castrated as a colony of the French, became castrated again as a colony of the British, and is now castrated as a colony of the U.S. The Quebecois and Swedes are doubly castrated because they have to speak to each other in American English on American servers in the Bay area. I suppose bitching about people with dark skin lets them think of their petty nationalism as important. Really. it means nothing. Seriously, what is it with these Swedish nationalists? They want to go back to sacking Irish monasteries and Roman cities like in the Middle Ages? They used to actually make their own jet fighters and cars; now they buy the same NATO crap as everyone else.
Sweden is a Quentin Tarantino movie now.
A Tarantino move? Which one? It's not Inglourious Basterds- yet! Heaven knows what's in the future.
"I mean, you gotta have an opinion!"
More like Monty Python. It may develop into a dusk till dawn situation however.
Bálint Csikós Monty Python is way too peaceful for Swedens situation hahahahah!
LOL ,,,, Sweden has no violence compared to the U.S. The only Tarantino movie in that part of the world is written by angry people like Brevik in Norway.
Gad, what would I do without you; keep it up, thoroughly enjoyed this one.
Love protest? Hmm. So what happens if you give the dog that bites you a treat for biting you?
Tim Etherington I guess in Sweden that person is expected to lay down and let the dog finish it's meal.
More like play dead and hope the starving polar bear walks away.
Jesus taught that you to love and forgive. That's the Western tradition.
I'm swede! It's ironic, in the once multicultural Europe, there is soon only one culture left.
Teddy Bears???
I'm... I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I hear Hungary is accepting refugees from Sweden.
LOL - which ones?
we'll all be applying to the east block who have the balls to reject islam.
we can rebuild from there.
😂😂😂😂😂
Ironically, more and more swedish doctors are showing up in my neck of the woods. (CNY) funny that.
Europeans are going to be the new refugees and they will be coming to Hungary, Poland, The Czech Republic and Slovakia, and Swedes are going to be the first to come.
Interesting to hear him say that marxists, socialists, and radical feminists are considered(to him atleast, and maybe many others) to be "classically left, and liberal. It's always intriguing to see the vast difference between the left/right paradigm in North America, and Europe.. it makes more sense the further down the rabbit hole we go in the states, and Canada..
Great conversation!
Veda C ff
True multiculturalism is _pluralism,_ wherein a plurality of cultures and a plurality of values are tolerated, but only to the extent they never impede or supersede the native culture and the native values of their adopted country, one nice enough to take in others as one of their own, out of the kindness of their hearts.
This point I CONSTANTLY stress over & over. Europe has ALREADY been multiculturalist for centuries.
For example we had the English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, descendants of French & Scandinavians all coexisting together while keeping their independent cultures. We had different Germanic States & Italian States coexisting for centuries before either Nation was official formed. Lombards living in pre-Italy with, Venetians & Sicilians. Bavarians with people from Lower Saxony in pre-Germany. Spaniards with Catalunyans & Galicians & Basques.
That was real multiculturalism. What we have now is the Colonization of the indigenous Europeans.
If these groups who were closely linked in genetics and a common Proto-Culture had CONFLICTS with each other, what would adding groups from ACROSS THE GLOBE do?
Such a great continent and people hurt in my mind irrevocably.
Our ancestors literally fought & perished for nothing. What a sad sight indeed :(.
Multiculturalism works if the cultures, more or less, share the same values. Intercultural European mixing wouldn't be much of a problem. But, when you take in a culture that is vastly different than the dominant culture you are going to have something we call: a 'bad time'.
Multiculturalism only works with truely liberal culturals. Cultures that don't value individual rights are inherently authoritarian and have to be utterly rejected outright with full intolerance. Cultures that want to assimilate to liberal values can retain other aspects of their culture, but not authoritarian ones. This is the incompatibility issue between Islamists and western cultures. People that take Islam literally believe that you're justified in killing gay people, or abusing women, or killing apostates. These are not ideals any classic liberal should be tolerant of.
" . . . a plurality of values are tolerated"
This is a myth. The immigrant cultures are always expected to speak the language of the host country, so that's not tolerance, but an expectation of conformity. The SJWs are hypocritical.
dont impede anyones culture as long it doesnt impede on another.
Fascinating. A great discussion which reassures me there are still some sensible people around. Gandhi said 'I could be a minority of one, but the truth is the truth'.
Interviews like this are why I am a patron. Thank you.
I am so thankful for youtube, and to you both. There's no way I would have heard such an interesting discussion prior to its arrival.
Adamson is one of your best guests . A true educator
Robert Putnam is a utopian if he says "we must create".Look at also all non-western cultures that are endogamous and there is an absent of a civilsociety because non-related are seen as strangers. This is within ethnic groups with the same ethnicity and religion. If Robert Putnam thinks that people from those cultures will be more open and solidaric in an environment that is more alien. Humans have an inborn bias towards familiarity that is seen in experiments with 6.month old babies done at the "Yale Baby lab". 85% of them showed a bias towards familiarity. We are likely to be born that way.
Language is important here, I think. It isn't that some people are trying to make people better, it is that some people are trying to make other people be more like themselves. They may think they are better, but this point should not be assumed to be true. I don't believe even that their intentions are "good". How can pushing an ideology on others be good? I'd guess that, on some level, they know this is for their convenience, rather than being truly for the good. Doesn't matter though: forcing ideology on others is not good, cannot be good, and the idea that it can be good is absurd.
He is clearly emotionally shook up by how he has been treated/where Sweden is heading.. Rarely does one witness such strong nonverbal signalling of despair as putting both hands to cover chin/mouth area (from 3:19 onwards).
Thank you for articulating
Seemed to really be embodying stress
Sweden hasn't fought a war in over 200 years...
And that is a good thing, right?
Because war is good? Is ignorance also strength?
Blind assertions are blind.
Can tigers build computers? Why not? Also, your insults show your insecurity, and that is certainly not strong.
but they did get rich by selling weapons to Hitler
I know a social worker with a Masters degree. She believes that blacks don't commit more crimes and that IQ"s aren't different among racial and ethnic groups. She's dead wrong on both counts but her utopian multicultural vision can't be disturbed by facts. It disturbs me to talk to her and I'm not sure what to do about it.
Approacher her with this: X came up to me and asked this question:
Really uncomfortable question
I couldn't answer it. What IS the answer to that question?
Ozzy Girl it sounds like she sees the argument differently:
You are brining facts to prove why she should be evil.
The God called multiculturalism must be slain first.
The problem with this is the existential angst that may cause.
Just read the full quote from Nietzsche about god being dead...
To sum it up:
Make sure you have an argument about facts and not good vs evil.
+ Ozzy Girl You know a malignant parasite.
I'm definitely frustrating myself and I'm almost certain no matter what evidence I show her, it will be discarded without a glance. Her belief system is who and what she is. My facts can't and don't exist in her world. It's best just to let it go.
Ozzy Girl I would not consider this person a good friend. She would be little more than a casual acquaintance. You can't convince someone to change a deeply held belief, no matter how delusional.
Excellent interview! (as usual, of course, but this was even better :-)
Great , loved this chat!
Teddy Bears? I thought it was Pepsi. How times have changed.
On how to survive socially in Sweden: "One technique is not to think” ---Göran Adamson
My likes keep getting undone for this vid. Get your shit together, UA-cam!!
Imagine a lets play of the game Civilization. Watch it in reverse. From a democracy towards a tribal despotism.
That is what we see happening.
Fürchtegott Gellert, interesting idea!
Good point on the ontological vs the consequential - I hadn't thought of the divide between rationalists and SJWs in those terms.
Weird, in Denmark i experienced two women and a child who "fell off a balcony" the child survived, the women didn't, and that was in the same building where different minorities lived.
I think Sweden should test their water supply.
tim wilson - agreed.
I always enjoy Gad Saad and his interesting guests. The discussion is not always easy to follow, not because it lacks anything but definition of terms. Example, around 21 minute mark you hear the clarification of the 2 versions of multiculturalism, might have been mentioned earlier (maybe I missed it). Great channel, keep up the good work.
Fascinating discussion.
I get the feeling that the West sees Sweden as the canary down the coalmine when it comes to multi-cultural socialism.
Think of how wonderful the canary's song is as it goes further and further down....until the grim reality sets in.
It's great to see so many Swedes acknowledging and confronting this.
Gad could explain very easy why Stewart Mill is hard to abuse and why Nietzsche isn't.
Not because Mill is better, but because very few speak German, but many speak English, or what is left of English.
Btw, which European countries are addicted to English? Maybe Norway and Sweden?
In my country there is at least a correlation observable of English and insanity.
The same goes for Europe as a whole, East Germany & Poland are the line where sanity begins.
While we learned English, they learned Russian.
Gad asks excellent questions and then really listens. Outstanding conversation with Göran Adamson clarifying some very meaty, difficult topics.
Benjamin, thanks for this!
At 12 minutes this discussion makes me think of jordan peterson discussing the gulag archipelago where the imprisoned party loyalists would stick to their ideology.
As a Swede, I think Göran Adamson forgets about our hard-core protestant heritage. Not so long ago, Swedes crouched under guilt and shame from the original sin. Now, we've changed gods but it's kind of nice to hunker under guilt as well as getting whipped for your sins.
Beat me, beat me, make me feel...
Very true. Liberal post-colonial sense of guilt is the perfect stand-in for old and forgotten religious mores.. "We have stopped believing in God, but we have not stopped believing". G. K. Chesterton
Smartest comment ever for today. I actually had a satori, all the "white guilt" happens mostly in protestant countries, France being one exception. Catholics are moderate in this: Spain, Italy are less SJW; Orthodox don't give a shit about it at all: Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia etc. Interesting
I'm not the first to say this, but is it a coincidence it's called Stockholm syndrome?
You should look up why it is called that.
Goldflame oh lord that's so true .
thats funny as shit!
Gad Saad is one of the few people on the internet who gets that the real battle is with any Utopian ideology, be it Islamist, Communist, Nazi, Fascist, or whatever. Utopianism creates a kind of neurosis in those who embrace it as they see the contrast in reality with their arbitrary, subjective, widely varied ideas of perfection.
Great conversation. I think that what people who speak out about censorship, secular religion and compartmentalized thinking have in common is that they have a single and solidly rooted moral center, not one that slithers around to match whatever climate it finds itself in. The inability to recognize internal contradictions of the type that Orwell wrote about so well is, I believe, the mark of an enslaved mind.
Excited to see this Gad my brother. You and Peterson are hero's of mine.
WOW his English is spectacular!
What a wonderful yet poignant discussion. How did we come to this? Thank you Gad.
I hope Prof Adamson does a chapter offering guidance and insight for academia outside Sweden. Adorable how he flinches ever so slightly when Prof Saad said the book was coming out in 2018, as if he's feeling a bit behind schedule, or something.
Absolutely brilliant discussion. Extremely thoughtful and provocative.
Thanks, Jeff!
Slavoj Zizek is the Slovenian philosopher Göran mentioned in this conversation.
Goran! I feel for you! Stay strong! One of my closest (once) friends works for the Swedish academia and he has become a person like the co-workers you describe. To me it was mind-boggling that a person can actually change so much, particularly if you consider the experiences he and I had to go through when we were younger. People do stupid things for all kinds of reasons. But when they use reason to commit them there is no justification for that. Life is a painful path. I'm sure Gad will show you some light at the end of the tunnel.
As Jonathan Haidt points out, they have positions that can be asserted but not supported. And they also don't realize that they have values, and those values can compete. It's insanity.
What scares me is that even he still shows hints of the self destructive, hyper-maleable Scandinavian mentality when he says "Children show me I am wrong all the time. I learn from children."
No you don't, or you better don't, man. You are an adult. You were a child and you grew out of it, collecting experiences and strength you now have to use. Now it is your job to teach and guide children and be stern and steadfast for them, so they can see you as a fixed, steady authority. That doesn't mean they can't question your authority at some point and rebell against it, but they need a father figure, they need culture and rituals and they need discipline.
This "I'm open to anything! I'm a feather in the wind! Let's fly to Kurrekurredutt together!" mentality is what ruined Sweden.
(Guess I should explain that one... I'm not Swedish, but I grew up with Pipi Longstocking stories and movies and Kurrekurredutt apparently is the original Swedish name of the mythical island where her father was marooned. It had a different name in the translations I grew up with.)
I'm afraid the Swedes will need to find some stubborness and a healthy dose of chauvinism if they want to survive this.
Chauvinism has become such a dirty word in every context nowadays, but I think it actually is neccessary.
What is the point of maintaining and developing your culture and your identity if you don't believe it is better than others?
Thinking they are better than others has always been what motivated people to actually be and do better than others.
Every big civilisation and empire in the history of the world was guided and driven by a sense of superiority and chauvinism. It might be ugly, but it literally is the most healthy and successful mindset a group of people can have, as long as it doesn't totally blind them to certain dangers.
People who spend too much time admiring other people's culture and art, don't do too well in creating and developing their own. You can see that in the cultural dominance Hollywood has over European media.
Are there no creative people left in Europe who could make their own Hollywood?
No. The problem is that those who exist are too busy imitating creative people in the USA and apeing American art and of course they don't do American culture as well as the Americans do, so they pale in comparison and look amateurish.
You're right. That sounded excessively SJW'ish.. Sometimes I take pleasure in saying things like this: "No, Nora. I am your father and I decide."
Good to hear (read), hehe. Guess I've become a bit overly sensitive in such matters lately.
I don't think it's inherently SJW-ish to say this. Children (depends on the age and circumstances of course) have not yet been tainted (or if they have, at least it is to a lesser degree) by propaganda, prevailing mores, their parents' beliefs, etc. In a word - ideologies. So you CAN learn from them, because they are more "pure", and experience the world in what I would call a more honest way.
Generally I agree with your point, but his comment could be taken in a number of ways, and you may have latched onto the meaning you have been primed to find, taking recent developments into account.
Love the specific language and choice of words. Way to go guys! Keep it up Gad!
I really enjoyed this discussion. Great guest! Thanks Gad!
very nice interview. i just watched it again ! still very relevant
"The Police where given Teddy Bears"! Is this for real!!! Jesus Christ Our Savior save us! From this Caliphate.
When Hillary called us "deplorables" she rang a bell which is still ringing.
I heard a feature on Sky News earlier today talking about the growing mental health crisis and royalty being involved as advocates, one thing that struck me was the never ending obsession with "young people's mental and physical well-being"! They just do not get it, my generation X have created a Frankenstein's monster in their own children and still they want to continue to coddle them and wrap them up in cotton wool instead of toughening them up in preparation for the trials and tribulations of life! My generation have utterly failed their own children!
58:42 The incestuous nature of academia: The more you cite your peer's papers, the more they will cite yours.
Dr. Saad, I wish that this were available as a podcast...
George Santayana on Progress
Progress far from consisting in change is dependent on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
The craziness has escaped the universities. November 8th their is a massive call to go out and scream. I have family members and friends who have become hysterical. Every terror attack they worry about those poor marginalized Muslims. I am 58 years old. I am not a student. Here in the the NW in America there are plenty who have that syndrome and none of them are in university
Please get Ann Heberlein as well! Swedish philosopher and great! :D
Fantastic job here!
Thanks for this!
Great interview Gad! Keep up the good work, both of you guys.
The Stepford Wives was a warning, not a recomendation.
Camus once wrote " the only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.
A fantastic statement!
I don't think OPS is limited to the acadamy Doc. Seems like there's plenty of it to go around in the press and leftist governments and recent grad types.
Great conversation
Anger is a normal part of processing grief, to deny that shows they’ve been socially brainwashed
no one can say b******t better than Gad....the contexts in which he uses it are exquisite...
Don't forget Tino Sanandaji.
Indeed!
Very good conversation. Tons of common sense.
So Saad managed to find The Last Reasonable Man in Sweden.......
Yep, he did! And I found one of the few in Canada.
@@goranadamson4353 Don´t worry about it, Goran. There are many like you. Reason and rationality will be defended. Always and forever.
Wasn't it Olaf Palme's "great" idea for Sweden, to turn into a new multicultural society ?
The groundwork was laid by David Schwartz, a Jewish emigree and opinionmaker.
www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2013/01/14/the-jewish-origins-of-multiculturalism-in-sweden/
svenska.yle.fi/artikel/2015/02/12/da-sverige-blev-mangkulturellt
Yes, the brilliance of universities was the enlightenment inheritance of pushing out/pushing aside religious and political dogmas in the pursuit of truth and knowledge. But new dogmas replaced the old ones, and the basic drives for power, security, approval and agreement.
Those that think that they have a Utopian answer, are far less likely to be self-critical, because they don't want their emotional safety blanket to be tugged away from them. They'd rather have the comfort of their own ignorance, (wilful or otherwise) than deal with the uncomfortable aspects that reality can bring.
Life is very dangerous. Children know this, and in part are aware of it because they are small and vulnerable. Their parents are there protect Doris. If the parent doesn’t get angry when the child is stomped on by an evil giant, the child feels she has no allies in a dangerous world. When parents feel only sad when their daughter is raped, the daughter has every right to Hold the parents in contempt and develop a greater distrust for the world.
You mean WE suffered two World Wars when all we need ( ed) is/ was LOVE.
Goebbles had the same idea. Truth is what ultimately will bring you what you desire.
What about the Winter War ? Germany, Sweden, Finland against the Soviet Union? This is why Sweden was never invited into NATO, that plus supplying Germany with all manner of raw material during the war.
El Dorado is a kind of mirage, ultimately. It is the fabled city of gold that the Spanish heard referenced in South America, and they looked for it, but in vain.
Another great show, Gad! Goran could almost be Liam Neeson's bald brother, looks-wise.
Larry Richardson
More his voice than his looks.
Gad Saad, I know this is off-topic, but I have a question/request: could you and Bret Weinstein have a discussion (maybe even a debate) about which aspects of Edward Wilson's classic 'Sociobiology' (1975) have held up (and haven't held up)-and which aspects of Marshall Sahlins' 'The Use and Abuse of Biology: An Anthropological Critique of Sociobiology' (1976) have held up (and haven't held up)-and why? I've recently reread both, and both made great sense. So now I'm curious to know which aspects of each man's text have held up (or not), and why.
In Canada multiculturalism was established as a political tool. In 1994 Penguin Books published "Selling Illusions - The Cult of Multiculturalism in Canada" by Neil Bissoondath. In his book, Mr. Bissoondath explores the topics of turning people into political tools, twisting historical differences into stereotypes; selling exoticism; and, dividing the country for political purposes - namely to try to ensure a continuing constant reelection of the Liberal Party. I believe a revised edition was published in 2002.
Regarding academics, what they are most interested in is funding. In order to get funding, your proposed area of research has to be approved by professors and academics in your field. Hence the great pressure to conform politically; and also not stray too far into the unknown. So far as left versus right academics are concerned, Jordan Peterson doesn't address this topic directly but he does mention in one his lectures that leftists generally score higher on openness (reference the OCEAN personality model), while conservatives tend to score higher on conscientiousness. (Reflecting on this for moment, it seems that Prof. Saad and Prof. Adamson would both be fairly rare in scoring high in both openness and conscientiousness.)
I'll have a look at Bissoondath's book - thanks!
Zizek is from Slovenia - former Jugoslavian republic - placed south of Austria/East of Italy / West from Hungary.
Guys, do you think it might boil down to most people merely wanting attention? I know the easiest way to garner attention is to be involved with some category of ideological victims; but when it comes to why, the answer is social media, the biggest attention seeker out there.
part of the problems with modern university is that its become too democratic or available to the average person. That makes it more subject to the whims of the democratic desires, politics and religion or worse, a political religion
Really enjoyed the conversation, excellent!
God damn Gad, you've become a seasoned interviewer. This is top notch interviewing job!
The problem is affluenza, at least among the elites.
When I attended college in the 1960's, every freshman was required to read J.S. Mill's On Liberty.
"If you dont defend yourself, then you just get taken over by bullies". Neddy Griffiths LES 1964
Very enjoyable interview, glad to know there are still a few sane people in Swedish academia
I like your story of persecution by the Quislings of multiculturalism
Interesting discussion among very well informed experts.
Something to think about is that some people are equally triggered by Adam Smith and John Stewart Mill and John Locke, as others are triggered by Karl Marx et. al.
1:15:00 "I am a victim - therefore I am" Good one! :)
In the late 60s early 70s, we were a kind of SJW bunch of the day. We graduated in the decade of the 70s and times were tough. We were quick to learn that the marketplace does not care and we needed to concentrate on what mattered.
There's a refuge for Swedes tired of the direction of their country in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. The language is different, but they might not even know that they've left home.
International Socialism: The final solution to the Human question.
Spot on Gad. Thanks for another great talk.
Slavoj Žižek is from Slovenia, former Yugoslavia.