body image and kpop: the bad, the ugly and the even uglier: a DSOK docuseries ep 4
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- Опубліковано 6 сер 2024
- Citations and sources
Sheiwen A, July 2022, A Complete Guide To 13 Korean Beauty Standards
ling-app.com/ko/korean-beauty....
Battisti L, Sep 2021,The Male Gaze: What is it, and How Does it Impact Women?
www.anewseducation.com/post/t...
Yoon S, Kim YA. Cosmetic Surgery and Self-esteem in South Korea: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis. Aesthetic Plast Surg. 2020 Feb;44(1):229-238. doi: 10.1007/s00266-019-01515-1. Epub 2019 Oct 21. PMID: 31637500; PMCID: PMC6957555.
Stone Z, May 2013, The K-Pop Plastic Surgery Obsession
www.theatlantic.com/health/ar...
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Name: Cheryl
Age: 25
Pronouns: she/her
Race: Black (African)
Editing Software: Wondershare Filmora X, Canva for the powerpoints, Inshot for the thumbnails
Stan List:
LOML: Kim Woojin
Ult of Ults (in order): Monsta x + wonho, Red Velvet, MCND, Everglow, Ateez
Ults (in order): Billlie, SHINee+Taemin, BTS, SKZ, SECRET NUMBER, PIXY
Semi Ults (in order): Dreamcatcher, IVE, AOA, Kard,GWSN, Woo!Ah!, Mamamoo, NCT127, CLC, WJSN, I_DLE SuperM, Seventeen, Blackpink, Rocket Punch StayC, Aespa, Itzy, Cherry Bullet,
Frequently listened to: ALEXA, CHUNGHA, YURI, EUNBI, YURI, YENA, KEP1ER-ish, ONEUS, DAY6, ONEWE, CIGNATURE, PURPLE KISS, 3YE, NU'EST, PIXY, KEY, KAI, STAYC, HYUNA, DAWN, WOODZ, SUNMI, WEEEKLY, ASTRO, GOT 7, NCT (Remaining Units), KINGDOM, , FROMIS_9, AOA, OH MY GIRL, GOT7, BAEKHYUN, APINK, THE ROSE, TRI.BE, EXO, WAYV,
timestamps
0:00 Intro
0:17 disclaimer (please read)
0:43 chapter 1: the ecosystem of body image in our generation
7:50 chapter 2: the ecosystem of body image in south Korea
10:20: eleven korean beauty standards and the reasoning behind them
15:47 the visual vs the non-visual (pretty privilege in kpop)
17:19 the advantages of being the visual in a kpop groups
20:42 the disadvantages of being the visual in a kpop groups
24:13 chapter 3: male vs female idols in societal pressure to look perfect
24:36 the male gaze and female visuals
29:39 the objectification of male idols, mainly visuals
31:53 so are they really comparable
32:36 the plastic surgery epidemic and the idol's self-esteem
35:27 the impact of body image on the young kpop stan (low self-esteem)
38:35 overinvestment in idols bodies and weight fluctuations
38:58 hyper fixation on imperfections of idols
39:46 weight control in kpop and the obsession with it
41:11 the fat shaming in kpop
42:35 the complaints on weight loss and excessive reactions to it
43:47 the normalization of skinny shaming in kpop
45:20 fat shaming vs skinny shaming: the stupid debate
46:41 the sunoo and enhypen fat shaming issue and my opinion on it
54:53 conclusion and personal message to young kpop stans
57:09 outro - Розваги
The body positivity was originally supposed to be for the disabled community and seeing what it's become is heartbreaking
So True!!
Up !!
I genuinely didn’t know that 😧 but yeah it's really sad
Exactly
True
International fans condemn the beauty obsession of South Korea at the same time continuously focusing on the visuals of kpop groups themselves
Yup. Like most of my bias are the visuals or whom I though were the visuals. Though that is not why I have them in the List persay. It was more like damn this girl has potential wonder what she could in the vocal line or dance line of the group. For me it is their untapped potential. Though usually their label sees then as a number nothing more. Which is very shitty way to go about things
that's what really grates on me. the hypocrisy from international fans. the racist superiority and saviour complexes. we have horrible beauty standards too, we also shame and kill people. in fact i like korea more in this sense because atleast they're honest. they have visual positions in kpop, they talk more openly about surgery. they are honest that looks matter to them. instead of the west where we often lie that it doesn't matter and run from conversations surrounding beauty. it's actually insane that we've built a world where we have to fight ourselves. because that's what we're doing, it's us humans who've chosen how things work and how they continue to. we literally made sure that we can't live, and we have the audacity to preach about how we're the most intelligent species 💀 im so tired of people. can't we all just vibe 😭
@@littlelou050 do you mean K-pop is honest about plastic surgery? Who admitted that they have some work done? All I see are just rumours
@@3lamirah4 good for her. I guess it's almost only her
@@lenakataeva7525 Jessi, Goo Hara, Minzy (2ne1), and Kwanghee are some examples from 2nd generation. Although, I wouldn't say that kpop stars are known for openly admitting to Plastic surgery, I think the society of Korea generally has plastic surgery as a thing that's known to be commonly done.
Just putting out there that the BBL era is over and with the y2k microtrend and soft grunge styles coming back in fashion I think a new super skinny 2000s/heroin chic era is going to come back. It’s crazy that even body types are trends :/ Very scared for curvier people
I hate these trends, people who try to follow body trends are just dumb. Your body can't look like those Instagram models cuz u were made differently, also cuz they fake it too. I'm sick of this.
@@savage_girl_07 it’s not that easy to just “not follow it” tho. it hasn’t happened to me but I can see how people might want to change when they are constantly made fun of for not fitting a certain standard, like how recently if you didn’t have a big butt you were ridiculed so lot of people started going to the gym. I do think people need to learn to stop being so influenced by those standards tho like... who cares.
yup!
@@fdscrl6016 yeah I know it's not easy to ignore it when peope are constantly trying to make you feel bad about your body. Some people are just shitty and toxic, I have some of those bastards around me too(don't give any fucks). They don't see that social media is trying to make them insecure so they can earn by it. Social media, beauty industry and ps surgeons (not all) are earning off well by our insecurities. It's really funny how certain body types trends for quite sometime and then gets replaced by another, but i do have a theory for that too. You know why they change it after some period of time is cuz they no longer can earn from it as many people already fits those so they bring another one into the game to make sure they are always making profits.
Just in time for my 50 lbs weight loss that just happened. I'm a black woman so skinny will never be in with my race. Good thing there's a world outside of the black community.
This reminds me when hyunjin said that he wanted people to see his dancing skills and stage presence instead of his visuals when he was talking about his artist of the month performance I really wish people would see idols hard work and talents before they talk about their visuals only
As much as I wholeheartly agree with the comment. Unfortunately I doubt anything will change anytime soon
I second this. I am a stay and it's so sad to see that people always merely look at hyunjin's good looks and completely ignore his talents.
I remember once on an episode of two kid's room, he said something along the lines that during his trainee days a mentor or something said "oh you're good looking anyway it doesn't matter" to him when he tried to improve his skills.
That must be so disheartening and to me, it's very insulting
Exactly, I think that was why he cut his hair in that AOTM & he's performance was splendid, that was actually when I discover stray kids
It must be really frustrating when people brush off all your talents and hard-work because you are "beautiful" (in quotes because everyone is beautiful in their own way, but that being that they fit the current beauty standards).
Being "beautiful" is not a talent or something people can choose, just like being "ugly", and both ends of said spectrum suffer from having their skills and strengths invalidated because of how they look. Like "they only got there because of their pretty face" and "they are very talented, but they'll never make it with this face". No one wins.
@@bean7496 yeah, he really has it rough.
I remember my therapist asking last week why I have a bad body image and how it contributed to my eating disorder.
I told her that the opinion that I hold of my body is not really my own opinion.
I literally never had any problems with my physical appearance before people started fat shaming me.
As I was explaining to her this it made me realize what I actually said.
The opinion that I have of my own body isn’t even really my own opinion because I only started to believe that I was ugly because everyone told me I was.
Even though that realization didn’t solve my eating disorder it made me less harsh towards myself.
I honestly don’t know why I felt the need to share this here but this video just reminded me of that.
I hope you're doing better now. Please try your best to take care of yourself.♥️
Don't worry, it's a really valuable piece of info to share and it could probably help somebody else if they stumble upon it - hang in there, i hope your healing journey goes well! 💖
Bless you and I hope you will be ok/stay OK
I felt that. When I was younger I never saw my weight as an issue until other people started to. Just like with beauty, features, skin tone, hair texture etc… most people think they look fine…until someone tells them otherwise. Of course thats not the case for everyone. As im older and get online and social media, no one tells me my body type looks bad, but because I see people hype others up (like kpop idols for example please don’t try those diets😭) I feel like I need to change.
@@kiki13451 this is because if no one else existed we wouldnt think anything was weird
standards ruin alot of peoples self image and its so sad
Irene´s talents are always overlooked, she reached incredible high notes in RBB, and also performed one of the hardest choreographies in k-pop with Naughty. But people still believe she´s there only because of her looks.
that was a scream not a high not, as a reveluv
do u mean overhyped bc she was mediocre in naughty and shes one of the worst lead dancers in kpop
@@is3215Nah, reveluv, it wasn't just screaming. It was actual note (D7 to be exact) which is also a so-called "whistling note". I've never seen videos of Irene performing it live but just the fact she manages to hit it at least once is pretty impressive
@@is3215she hit a whistle note multiple times in one song and you’re trying to discredit that?
not to mention her happiness rap
*THANK YOU* for saying the slim figure comes from wealth. Literally no one when discussing beauty standards will acknowledge this. Pretty much all beauty standards are rooted in *wealth* , not race, not actual "beauty" (which is hella subjective and hella rare, naturally).
What even is “beautiful”? So many different cultures and generations have had so many different standards. I may be somewhat beautiful by korean standards (extremely pale skin, oval face, eyes that look much like many korean models) but very ugly and strange in plenty of other cultures. Beauty is very subjective.
I’m only 8 minutes in but I see you talk about the visual position later in this video and I’m SO happy it’s brought up. visuals are not positions. it is just how someone looks. but since it is treated as a position people will talk about it just like how dance, vocals, and rap are. “I don’t like ___’s visuals, i prefer ____’s” just say you don’t like how someone looks, and stop acting like it’s on the same level as actual skills like dance, vocals, rap, etc.
Just ppl were suprised that sullyoon was a very strong vocalist bcuz they don't even excepect visuals to be talented
@@inseungwoonamewestan1196 Because the majority of Kpop visuals are not talented tbh. Most of them improve through the years, fortunately. But for debut selection, some idols are picked for their vocals, some for their dance, some for their rap or even stage presence while visuals are picked because they have a pretty face.
I myself was shocked when I first heard Sullyoon live. She broke the stereotype.
There are talented visuals but sadly you’re right. It’s like people don’t expect them to really do anything but look pretty. Hence why they are often given revealing outfits on stage. Like with Tzuyu and Irene. Irene especially is a strong dancer. But for instance, during BB era, she was always stuck in these tight dresses. You could see she was more focused on pulling it down then dancing (Joy too). Most visuals in groups just give alluring expressions… they aren’t expected to do anything. Which is why I definitely admire the ones that actually try to improve and stuff. Especially bc a lot as you said were scouted for their looks, like Tzuyu, Yuna, Jisoo, Jin.
@@ladiva7631 thats true. Like Tzuyu or Sehun. Not saying they’re untalented but compared to everyone else in the group they look lacking and untalented. They don’t add anything but the Korean beauty part. Same with Jin and Jisoo. I’ve always felt that especially about Jisoo since she stands out so much in their concept. And it’s sad that they get gate for being “untalented” when they’re not untalented but they were forced to debut before fully ready (or in Jisoos case I think being pushed to debut instead of giving the acting career they want) to fulfill the beauty part so they stand out and are only seen as useless beauties
@@kiki13451 I blame the companies for that. Talent should come first before looks but given how the fans focus on looks, I guess they have no choice but include the prettiest idols possible or make their idols undergo surgery to attract fan. But if you're gonna debut someone because he/she looks good, at least train them properly before presenting them to the world.
At least some of them do their best to improve while others are happy just receiving praises for their face.
In the last Festa, Jin said that he didn't regret giving up acting to be part of BTS but he may (in the future) try acting since that's what he learned and loves. I just hope Bighit will give him the chance to prove himself as an actor. He would be good in movies and dramas.
As a person who is neither skinny nor fat i always feel so lost in body movements. Like i’m not talked about or avoided but i’m not the desired slim body it’s isolating. Not to mention everyone in the middle being labeled as “curvy” but skinny and fat people can also be curvy it’s too conflicting
People think curvy is a weight, but it's actually just the hourglass or pear body type. It has nothing to do with weight.
@@assbabywillbemychildsname.3687 EXACTLY
As someone who's also not skinny nor fat. I call myself chubby, cuz that's what I look like.
Lol youre healthy, chill
@@randomaccount6758 You can't assume someone is healthy just by their weight. It's a common misconception, but inaccurate.
recently, i saw viral tiktoks/shorts pointing out itzy's yuna's hip pads.. the comments were flooded with top ones having tens of thousands of likes : 'she looked better before' 'the hip pads look so unnatural' 'jype should stop forcing their idols to do this' ... and i just sat there confused..... weren't these the same people making edits of yuna's body, editing her to be skinnier so they can act concerned, obsessing over her weightloss and borderline skinny shaming her ..?? ..but now, when she's wearing hip pads and forcing curves cause the public hates her body, they say she looked better before. and it makes me so mad ppl claim jype force this as if they weren't the ones criticizing her for an ed they *think* she has.
i know stans aren't a monolith and will have different opinion in what's attractive, but the sudden shift of the general opinion is funny and frustrating lol :'//
I think it's because first no one is getting held accountable behind a screen (people say whatever they want even if yesterday they said something completely different) and it's easy to say it's the label's fault because it isn't one authentic person behind it and because in fact no one can prove or disprove it because none of us has any idea how it works in 'xyz' label.
It's extremely common for female idols to wear hip pads BECAUSE of fans and their judging eyes.
I've noticed more and more idols actually getting cosmetic surgery and procedures for body modification. 2nd and even the beginning of 3rd gen was almost entirely relegated to the face. Not so anymore. There's a huge uptick in idols using Sculptra and fat grafts in areas that used to be ignored or "helped" with padding. The whole "11 line" for females and "chocolate abs" for males has also led to an increase of both surgical and nonsurgical methods to emphasize or create this (since muscle shape can vary from person to person) But this also goes in reverse too... some girl groups are purposefully styled to NOT look very curvy and have more adolescent type bodies (this seems to commonly backlash once those idols get ANY chance at self expression... ). Even for male idols, the specific triangular body type is pushed and therefore "helped" along with cosmetic procedures. Another common occurrence now is for celebrities (and, yes, idols to a lesser extent, but I expect it will spread like a cancer like everything else) is getting a mini gastric sleeve to permanently suppress the appetite and make you unable to eat as much, which obviously in turn causes you to be much thinner and without it being disciplinary. The ages it's being done at makes it even more incredibly sad. Leave it to humans to find a way to abuse just about anything.
Fans pushing ANY SPECIFIC body type are dangerous (as is trying to emulate someone else's body). It's normal for weights to fluctuate a bit. A healthy body is the weight range you fall at naturally when you are living an active, healthy lifestyle without underlying health conditions... and that is a different weight and shape for everyone! I hope fans also keep in mind that maintaining a celebrity body is INSANELY expensive. Even from just my end (cosmetic dermatology, so think noninvasive/surgical cosmetic procedures) it can be a good $25k per year/cycle. I've seen flash in the pan celebrities go broke from just trying to upkeep the body and image they had at their career peak once their income drops. It's vicious on anyone mentally, let alone for someone who is famous and/or young (I have yet to meet a person who was famous at young age that isn't a trainwreck psychologically as an adult... it's really sad.)
ive also seen a lot of kpop bg stans sexualizing everything about male idols and then saying things like "theyre man/adults, they know what sex are. dont treat them like babies" or stereotype them like all man are sex-crazy and like to be sexualized. disgusting
its terrifying theyre pushing that narrative of men being nothing but sex beasts, this is harmful to the idols, imagine them seeing these comments... like trust me they wont think its a good thing
Thats common especially fan accounts on instagram, the caption are always so deranged same with their name. I just can't see the appeal of typing out those nasty words about a real person especially on public
But can we appreciate that she made a whole hour for us?? EVERYBODY REPEAT 'Thank you Cheryl!'
WE LOVE YOU ❤️
Thank you Cheryl!
we love u
your username is so funny and creative lol i love it
Thank you Cheryl!💙💙
Thank you Cheryl😊
I remember once coming across a video of Somi dancing at a show when she was 14 years old (!!!!!) and being absolutely shocked! She was dressed in jean shorts and a crop top and she danced suggestively to this huge crowd and I could never have imagined that this woman I saw was actually still just a kid. I read it in the comments and was disgusted! I commented something along the lines of "what are they doing to this 14 year old!!" and of course I got a lot of cursing replies by fans (who were probably also 14 years old). It's literally CRAZY how those girls get sexualised so blatantly and no one tries to make it stop
@A exactly I too searched rhe comments for the outrage that I was feeling and got nothing. Everyone was praising her! And they replied to me like "she isn't being sexualized you must be a weirdo to think so" and I was shocked even more! But then again this happens to me a lot in the kpop video comments. People are defying logic, science and the societal rules in the comments of kpop videos. It's like they are brainwashed extraterrestrials, they argue about whether a table is a table.
Coming from someone that was a fan of Jeongyeon since before she was first dealing with her health issues to now, I still have a hard time looking back at those moments. People acting like they were her doctor and others trying to tell her fans to “shut up and stop overreacting”, to people just straight up saying she should be out of the group because she wasn’t “doing her job” or “if she can’t handle the pressure she shouldn’t be in the group”.
I was so happy when she came back to performing during alcohol free but I was also worried for her because I knew that because of her weight gain, the nasty comments would only get worse. People I followed who I thought had the same love for her I did were turning around and calling her “ugly”and a “whale”.
I’m proud to say that even through all this I’m still a huge fan of Jeongyeon and still love her to bits. My relationship with Twice as a whole was a bit damaged because of how JYPE dealt with the situation but I still like them very much. I hope Jeongyeon knows that there are plenty of people that still love her like I do and continues to do what she likes.
Amazing video! 💚
I swear, comments such as "x person shouldn't be an idol because they can't handle pressure" is genuinely dumb. Just because someone chose this profession, it doesn't mean they can't get hurt by comments or industry' standards and lose confidence.
Fans always preach about how idols are treated just as money markers, but when idols show their human side they get these types of comments.
This messed-up industry needs more fans like you. Jeongyeon is very talented and gorgeous and that's all that matters.
they criticize idols for 'not being able to handle the pressure' instead of just trying to be a decent human being. None of them are half as confident in real life and none of them could ever go to a person they meet on the street and insult them.
Also the whole " Jeongyeon was pregnant, that's why she went on hiatus " as if she wasn't diagnosed with anxiety is sickening.
The way she gained weight ressembles what some of my relatives went through when starting certain medication, which makes it even more upsetting to me knowing she probably isnt even ''responsible'' for it
I think the reason why straight brows are preferred (nowadays a slightly rounded arched brow is also seen as beautiful) is because it gives a less “harsh” impression. Straight brows make you look more friendly and softer
Oh and it gives a more youthful appearance but it really only looks good on Koreans imo
@@markigirl2757i think its bc it looks too forced on more "western" faces bc their natural brow arch is naturally angled
@@orange1293 Yep! For example, Bahiyyih has more "western"/white features, and I think the straight eyebrows don't suit her. It hinders her facial expressions, imo. Somi also does her brows with a natural arch. Karina does too.
@@markigirl2757 doing straight brows for 2 years just because i don't want to look like a "savage bad bitch". Just no. I have soft and round features and i don't think western brows will suit my personality
16:21 I'm so glad you talked about this topic as well since some fans are blind that pretty privilege exists even in the Kpop industry. It's not only in terms of face or visual preferences but also skin color. Idols with much lighter skin tend to be more favorable by their fanbases whereas those with slightly dark skin or tanned aren't deemed so desirable in the eyes of many. I had read a comment that if you are an ARMY and your bias is Namjoon, some people will get really shocked or mindblown since most of them know that Namjoon doesn't fit the beauty standards of Korea and biasing him is like finding a very rare stuff that no one has touched ever. You will also be shocked that they experience colorism from their own fanbase and members-like what happened to Kai of EXO when he was in SuperM.
@♥ silent jisung ♥ damn
Namjoon stans are supreme. (yes me)
@♥ silent jisung ♥ oh god....
"When he was in SuperM" lmfao in EXO and as a soloist too, his fansites still whitewash his pics.
@@curerose6906 i remember reading this book on wattpad where it's full of EXO jokes. one line stayed with me and it went "we have our charcoal prince, kai!"
I have a story that made me realize that appearance is put on such a pedestal by people. I was on a soccer team and everyone was around 13-15 in age. We weren't all skinny (I know that for a fact because I'm average size) but for the most part, we all looked athletic and fairly healthy (even though for the most part a lot of the people on the tea did not eat healthily and regularly vaped and smoked). To me, it was a great environment because we were all just having fun and playing soccer together. My perspective began to shift though when we got a new girl on our team. She was bigger and size and not conventionally attractive (at least to everyone on the team) and I started to see the way everyone treated her. Whether it be side-eyeing her and laughing when she would make a mistake during practice or just not including her. The cherry on top was when my teammate said to me, "I don't like ____, she's kinda ugly and fat, I don't know why she's even on the team." It shocked me because I had never heard her say something so mean and rude before. Especially because this new girl literally was never mean to anyone and pretty much kept to herself. I wish I could say this had to do with her being a new person on a team of girls who have already bonded, but when we got another new teammate who was smaller, skinner, and could be seen as more attractive a lot of the girls opened up to her more and she was just seen as overall more likeable to them. It's scary to think about because we were all most pre-teens, but the fatphobia and general judgment of a person based on how they looked was already ingrained in our young minds.
I really liked this video and I hope you make more of these Cheryl. It was really informative and can start a great in-depth discussion.
Why do I feel like you just said my story but it is much worst here 💀
I feel bad for the girl who got called ugly, I'm hope she found people who were nice to her
@@florencembah2626 We somewhat stayed in touch she has good friends now (from what I can see)
@@pinkaengelz Oh thank God, she sounds like a introvert, so I personally feel for her
The amount if times I've been told that I can't be a feminist if I like boy groups is astounding. First of all, I believe men and women should be treated equally socially, financially and more. That means I hold both groups to the same standards and if I see a woman sexualising and objectifying a male idol and it makes me feel uncomfortable, I'm going to call them out. No, I'm not a pick me. No, I don't have internalised misogyny. I believe that men and women are capable of bad and good things, so I treat them the same in all situations. None of this, "well, women have had it worse forthousands of years". Yes, but we shouldn't be tipping the scales so far that we start treating men the same as how women have been treated before. None of this "Revenge" narrative. That's just immature and just proves my argument that women are just as capable of doing bad things as men when given the chance.
Exactly I can relate 💯
💯. double standard can go both ways but ppl are not ready to talk about it .
your comment makes no sense to me. and why does the fact that both men and women are capable of good and bad things have anything to do with you liking boy groups? do you like *any* girl groups? why did you comment it on this video? so many missing factors and pieces of information
@@skylerk126 well you should g ask the people who said that to me. It makes no sense but kpop stans rarely ever do.
no
the situation with jeongyeon makes me especially sad because she has a thyroid condition and is on medication that effects body size! any body shaming is heinous, but as someone with health issues that make me underweight, it especially bothers me when people have an opinion on someone’s body when it’s heavily effected by a medical condition. she needs her medication to lead a healthier life, and it’s sickening to see people prioritize her body size over her quality of life. :(
I genuinely find it sad that the first thing fans often mention in comments under videos praising their idols are their 'visuals'. It's so strange to me. That person is there, dancing and singing their heart out and the first thing people comment on is their appearance... I also wanted to mention or more recommend the video "How K-POP Destroys Your Body Image: A Video Essay" by chaebin n out to anyone watching this video, since it ties into the topic quite well.
I watched that video too and it was so insightful!
As much as I despise minors debuting in kpop groups, I feel like it's not going to stop anytime soon. These companies are seeing how well these groups are thriving. Tbh, they do not really care. We can keep complaining, but it's not changing anytime soon. Which is wrong tbh.
Sometimes I don't even blame them because extremely young kids are now auditioning to become idols.
I am not sure about it. Lately SM has stepped away from debuting young idols, any idol they debuted after NCT dream was off age, so I think there is a chance that other companies realize that it is not best solution. Or maybe it is just my wishful thinking, this "trend" of debiting minors is just hopeless.
@@duqial Aesapa debuted in 2020 and that's very good of SM but since their debut a lot of other companies have still been debuting minors from 2020 till now. While we can hope we can see that what SM did has in no way changed the perspective of other companies.
Imo companies should change the age range in this audition, in 2 years or less we may be seeing idols born in 2011 debut (hopefully not) if they keep up.
@@jemi_j true, It also the second group they also debuted WayV in 2019 and did the SuperM thing, now all the Smrookies who will be debuting are also off age. While I agee it is more of a hope than a reality. I feel we need more times to see any changes, but it may never totally disappear as some companies see it as very beneficial. ATBO's debut restored my faith in humanity a little. It is such a complex issue with so many complications that may arise I hope sb will make coverage on it. Many teens overlook the numerous dangers of it like the mental tool it can have on them like in Garam's case. No matter if a scandal is real or not for 14 year old it must be really tough, especially if the companies don't want to take responsibility for idols mental health, which while I don't think is necessary an issue it surely becomes one if the idol they are debuting is not a fully shaped adult who can provide help for themselves.
Yeah when I realized that some of these idols could've been passing me in the hallways of schools it felt way more scary..
Being the visual of a group would be like a double edge sword. People will automatically love you because of the way you look, but it can just as easily be used to be weaponized against you. I also wonder how these visuals feel when their looks start to age…it’s very worrisome
I'd also add to the objectification of male kpop idols: using them to fetishize gay relationships. Now, it's not just in the kpop world this is an issue of fan culture as a whole. But I feel it needs to be brought up. It's always excused because "representation" but there's a biiig different between shipping REAL PEOPLE vs fictional characters and even with fictional characters, healthy dynamics vs all the non-con, dub-con and blatant rape that happens in these fics.
I found that a lot of fanfics only use the names of the idols to get views but besides that, they're nothing like the real person. In that way, they are fictional. Besides how they're described, looks wise, and name (cause it gets the readers through the door, of course) then it mostly has nothing to do with the real person/ or their real actual life, public actions. Like their personalities aren't even accurate most of the time. I find it sad that there are some good works out there that could pass off as original books but not many books containing gay content are being published. So, that's where they ended up. It's a gap in the market ( probably due to homophobia) and fanfiction filled it.
The Sunoo situation...YESSSSSS! This is exactly it. It depends on the situation, the context, and the relationship dynamics between the people involved. I have friends who tell me before that they're watching what they eat because of personal health reasons, so I had the "permission" per se to tell them that "hey you've been eating a lot lately" to let them know it's probably time to be mindful. But it's our banter. To people outside our dynamic, it might be disturbing, but inside, it's not.
We don't know the full banter of the EN--- boys so while it's okay to raise some flags, I doubt it's anything *too* serious.
29:55 and this segment just proves further that kpop stans absolutely don’t care if they are sexually harassing and exploiting male idols, i am sick of people (especially gg stans!!) feasting on wonho’s wardrobe malfunctions and calling him inappropriate names but when the same thing happens to their fave female idol they’ll go on full twitter rally and getting mad on people who even try to circulate those.
I watched fevers choreography cause I like the song, they are good dancers, and I wanted to learn the dance. And then I saw the comments (def not all) but a visible amount is uncomfy to read. And the tik toks are the worst. I feel uncomfy, I don't wanna imagine how they would feel if they saw these. Or Jisung from nct who literally saw the thirst comments in a vlive and jokingly implied that the people who post these would get arrested because he was still a minor at that time. And he had to do it jokingly because if he would show himself being uncomfy he probably would get criticized for idek what.
U know wonho does it in porpuse to get people talking, to keep his popularity up, rigth?
not you comparing woman’s struggles to men yikes 😬 most gg stans just don’t care and don’t know that happens, let’s not play dumb, the people who stan the men are the ones most often sexualizing them...
@@lucasb9285 Bro what?
@@fdscrl6016 If you don't want us comparing them react the same.
It's so disgusting the way people started saying "well I can finally say woojin is ugly" after the accusations and after everything was proven to be false they still bully him for his looks...
The last sentence, about picking us up, and seeing self-love like a journey is clever and well found. Better than the useless "everyone is beautiful" or "you are perfect", that never work because they ignore how deep and severe the feeling to be ugly because we see flawless people everywhere.
I want to say that after I got in kpop 2 years ago I became so insecure about my body after I started to like stan more and more groups. I was a 13 year old that had no problem with her body and then all perfect body idols like lisa come to my daily routine. Actually at first I just adored idols body but then as I saw more comments about her waist and her LONG LEGS i started feel so insecure about my body. I am 159 cm, 46kg and I have short legs, also my hips are a bit bigger. And as I said before I didn’t had any problem with it but for around 2 years I can’t look at the mirror without fat-shaming myself. And hate myself for this. Right now I’m trying to stop this, wish me luck💗🎀
Good luck 🤞
Girl, i have no right to say this but your weight it's completely fine and it's ideal for your height (a little on the underweight side) but please stay healthy with your mental health and body, i send you all the love in the world💗💗💗
Oh my god i can relate to this comment so much!! I only got into kpop when i was 16 and until then i never really had any body issues. I have always been very skinny and recently i gained weight and my thighs were larger than usual. After seeing idols I have become so insanely insecure about my legs its crazy!!
further on the visual argument, i think also if a visual idol falls or becomes embroiled in controversy people are ridiculously quick to tear apart the way they look. taking april's hyunjoo and naeun as an example who both held the visual position, for the months that april being discussed there was this fluctuation between fans calling naeun 'fake, simple, artificial, nothing compared to hyunjoo' and then calling hyunjoo 'unworthy, ugly, couldn't measure up to naeun'. i have seen the same thing happen with the cases you described, hyunjin, woojin, mina and jimin the way you described and i think its something that comes with or without the visual position. people for some reason feel they have the right to pick apart the way idols look the moment they have the reason to.
"Woojin just looks guilty to me", "Jimin face is reflecting who she is inside"
@@PdPiper-wn2nb that one video where the host compares Jimin's face to Samuel L Jackson's and every comment (during the time everyone thought she was guilty) was about how much of a monkey she looked like and that she surely bullied Mina because she was "mad at the world for making her look like that"
Ahh yes! The discussion WE NEED!
My weight has always been something I’ve struggled with so seeing comment made by both fans and idols has always been hard.
Don't feel bad about them their comment are litterally crazy and sets impossible standards I know it's sometimes hard to not be influence by what is said on internet but those comments are toxic as hell and you should never listen to those crazy opinion. I hope your image of yourself Will get better
@@killem0610 it has, slowly but surely. I’ve struggled with EDs for most of my life, so I’ll never truely be happy with my body, but thank your for the kind words.
@@ryanostone22 when I can spread a little of kindness in this mean social media world I do good Luck on your Journey !
“Queen Chioma mentioned-“ SUBSCRIBED mmhm yup
Oh. Thank you about talking with Enhyphen. I don't Stan Enhyphen seriously but the way the Sunoo situation was blown out of proportion to paint the other members as hating Sunoo gives me a headache because I know for a fact that it's not how things work in most friendships. We don't tease for evil reasons all of the time. They are young so they don't know the limit yet. They will learn but at their own time with their own experience. Fans are not parents nor teachers.
Little helpful comment about 6:30 because i am in shock.
Most of eating disorders (not to say all) come from a deep need of control that a persons gets. With our society nowadays, body is the easiest to control. I'll not come into details or it'd make it annoying but ed's realeasd molecules that'll make you happy when you control what you eat. And here we're talking of versions of anorexia or other restrictions ed. On another side saying people with binge eating or bulimia nervosa are fatphobic is absolutely?? insanely??? stupid since some bulimics do not even recall their crisis and if you try to be understanding, after eating so much, it is normal to try to regulate. These types of e.d (overeating side) are from traumatic events too.
So saying e.d are fatphobic is ableist too if we continue the "argument" in their way... Istg when people will be finally aware of real ed cause it'll help a lot.
It is definitely about control when your life is a mess
I've seen in happen around me and it is really sad because they control food, control their study, strict tight schedule and panic if it doesn't go their way
You're right that eating disorders are not fatphobic however you also can't deny that currently pro-ana/mia spaces are once again on the rise (kpop body standard becoming a huge factor in this) and most of those spaces are in fact extremely fatphobic (in fact they have entire channels, threads and forums dedicated to just, body shaming fat people) and while the eating disorder is not what causes this, a lot of the time eating disorders do lead to extremely low self extreme which in those spaces tends to be taken out on fat people, using "fatspo" to encourage their Ed's and get thinner, not every person with an eating disorder has been in these spaces but a lot have and a lot have experienced first hand the way the low self esteem from an ed can twist itself into fatphobia (even if it's just internalized) , I've seen a lot of people online use they excuse "well they don't really have Ed's they just want one" but a lot of the people in those spaces do have (often diagnosed) eating disorders, the disorder can't make you fatphobic but it can give you the ingredients needed to be fatphobic especially in spaces full of other anorexics that also think that behaviour is okay because of their disorder, some people are so blinded by it they honestly can't see that they're sick, bc they think the disorder is good for them or helping them
@@swampratguttergoblin You're reducing ed's to anorexia which is extremely reductive but it's true that pro-ana spaces pray on fatphobia to motivate themselves and keep it up.
After watching the entire video the only conclusion my brain is coming up with (after having lots of comments on every single section of this entire discussion) is that I can't bring myself to expect K-pop to change because it's the audience that basically runs the show. Or the society.
Kpop will remain as it is as long as people keep prioritizing beauty more. Prestige, beauty and everything superficial rules the industry at the moment. With the rare instances of pure talent breaking through.
People keep judging an Idols view on physical beauty while I can't help but think that it's understandable with how it's apparent that the audience eats that shit up. The audience push good looking people to the forefront. IDK how I can expect them to think any different about physical beauty when it's apparent how their maximum target audience wants that perfection to brag about 🤦🏻♀️.
I agree so much on the enhypen one. Im in no way justifying it, but we should learn that the fact that they're "fatshaming" is but an assumption. Yes, an assumption we need to talk about and need Belift and ENHYPEN to clarify and take action accordingly (like apologize SINCERELY if it is actually causing Sunoo discomfort).
But you need to understand, not everything is what it appears to be. There's a LOT of things that can be the reason behind their actions, it can be innocent or even more guilty. You can't just take one assumption based on what you SAW and then use it to label enhypen as "jealous bullies" and "fatshamers". The most you can do is consistently ask Belift and enhypen to address the situation. Because there can be a lot of factors behind this, as Cheryl said. Maybe they're complimenting him saying he eats well, maybe they're being sarcastic abt Sunoo's weight, maybe Sunoo himself has allowed them to make jokes and doesn't mind. These are all "maybes" in other words, assumptions. We can't factorize them. Again, everyone saying Enhypen are jealous bullies and fatshamers based on this are also merely making assumptions, that they shouldn't factorize.
CHERYLLLLLLLL,I’M PROUD OF U FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS KEEP ON GOING
Ty Jess 😭💙
@@everglowup ur welcome! U deserve everything and more!
I also feel like I have never seen a visual who gets fair amount of lines/screen time. They either get too much of it to the point that they overpower the rest of the group(example Taeyong) or visuals who barely get any lines(example Jaemin, Winwin, Jin). It is just either you get everything or you are reduced to your looks.
Karina does not has way more lines than the other tho
karina is not visual, she’s only fotg and center, she only got her black mamba screen time as face of the group, cuz it was debut song. since forever era she is actually always 3rd or 2nd so it’s not that bad. she also got the chance to sing thanks to BoA and producer since then keeps on giving her more lines to showcase her skills. sm introduced her as an all rounder for a reason and you can see that they treat her like one. she sings, rap and dance in their songs. but i agree with the rest.
@@Sssss-pm2hm Thank you for correction!
The fact Taeyong is the overall leader, one of the most improved dancers, a great rapper, lyricist and producer yet interviewers want to talk about his visuals is so annoying
There are idols that are happy to be called a visual and when their visual are being complimented all the time and there are idols that hate that label and try to show to the world their talents and hard work and Hyunjin is definitely the second type. He was practicing 18 hours per day and made to the main dancer position in 2 years from having literally 0 skills, learned several new dance styles, attending SOPA and practicing every free time, but people still mostly comment on his looks. Even for Studio Choom's aotm he said that his most favourite part is when he has the hat on, because people can focus on his dancing instead of his face, in Play with fire his face is almost all the time covered with his hair, in recent fancams he doesn't make facial expressions or even look at the camera and just focus on his dancing and he's hella embarrassed and uncomfortable when MCs bring his looks during variety shows. He even stopped posting his pics on Instagram, he posts his selcas maybe once per month, but he posts many pictures of his paintings or his dancing instead so he could be appreciated for his talent and I'm glad he does it, because even Ryan Raynolds appreciated him for his drawing skills and called him an amazing artist he is 🥲
Wow he did that much, I didn't realize, I hope he learns to balance it though like post videos of him dancing & still appreciate his visual
the* thing about kim garam is that people actually love her voice and consider her a very good idol in terms of skills. which is true. kim garam is genuinely one of a kind because you'd be hard pressed to find somebody as well rounded as she is. and she was 16! so i don't agree that people dismissed her looks. people were actually conflicted because they all love her parts in sour grapes.
She has a look, and if she had a more innocent cute look people would have not have been belived as much as their did
@@lucasb9285 i think it was all hybe's fault for not handling the matter better. they are to blame 100% for this hoopla. and i blame the other party for leaking an official confidential document of a minor. if hybe took care of things from the beginning to settle with the other party, things wouldn't have escalated as much. let's make it clear: she wasn't a bully, nor was she totally innocent. but things were salvageable in the beginning. but hybe decided to wait until the very last minute to take care of things and it was already too late for her in the public opinion. i hope she walked out of that contract with bucketloads of cash. and tbh their statement reads as much. they were salty af.
we barely saw her full potential tho, given her short time in the group but personally she had great stage presence and voice. i agree with the top comment: it is hybe’s fault entirely, for not handling ANYTHING well. they should have run a background check, or by defending garam trying to provide more evidences to shut down the counterparts but this case was messy.. since it dealt with minors
honestly with the sunoo situation whilst at first i felt like they were just joking and passed it off as cultural barriers etc. i just feel like i cant see it that way anymore. obviously i dont know them or their intentions but after i saw the clip of them dismissing sunoos compliment it just feels very malicious to me. like making comments and jokes here and there is one thing, but when someone goes out their way to give someone else a compliment and you just dismiss it and say theyre wrong when its not even about you? thats just incredibly disrespectful idk
The whole Sunoo situation was blown so out of proportion. Instead of holding the boys accountable for their remarks they started sending malicious threats to them.
And they made Sunoo look like an infant who couldn't speak properly. For Fucks sake the man is 20 years old by Korean age and now a legal adult, he isn't stupid.
He can think for himself.
Actually a weverse magazine which had an interview with sunoo mentioned that he loves being expressive and direct with people and that others do the same back to him. So he would voice out his opinions if he finds them harmful.
And sometimes it doesn't hurt to do some research. During a vlive where they were talking about their music show win for pass the mic someone had commented Sunoo's face became half. And it was Sunghoon said , " No it's not." And the laughing which people heard/considered was even drier than the Sahara dessert. Crazy thing was Sunoo was laughing while throwing his head back.
- People are also making some crappy shorts about Sunoo's situation while sad music is playing in the background.
- Sunghoon has recently stated that he is trying to help Sunoo regarding his health and physical wellbeing so I think Sunoo told him the jokes were going overboard.
- Niki adores Sunoo the most but he's not realizing that such comments regarding one's body weight are not good to make
He'll turn 17 this year but the death threats coming towards him or any other member needs to stop
-And if somebody owns an apology it's Sunoo not you people. So don't go around trashing their friendship and demanding for a public apology cause that's nonsense .
Although I never dealt with ED and I am trying to loose weight by exercising instead of any weird diets. And this is a serious topic which needs to be handled carefully.
So thank you everglow-up for this enlightening video. 💗❤️
I strongly agree with everything u said and its great to see someone else besides me who is in the right mind when it came to the Sunoo situation
when someone said his face became half it means it looks like he lost weight, sunghoon didn’t come to his defense he just told him no it’s not and said it looks the same
@@STARRY127 Thank you.
OMG PERIODT.
Thank goodness. I have been saying this forever, but kpop stans don't want to use their brains. I strongly agree with every point in this comment. I thought I was the only one with common sense, glad that you haven't left your brain elsewhere. We need more people in the kpop fandom who will ACTUALLY use their brains instead of sending unecessary hate to other members and blow things out of proportion when they never needed to be in the first place.
First of all, thank you for talking about this, I’m just giving my own perspective on some of your points. Fat acceptance is necessary bc medical problems tend to go unnoticed on fat people bc they’re attributed to weight and no other options are considered, also, mental illness doesn’t exist in a vacuum, eating disorders exist in a society that sees being fat as one of the worst things you could be, analyzing how eds come to be from a fatphobic society allows us to seek a systematic solution to an illness that has killed millions of people. Of course, this is just my perspective and I thank you for speaking in these complex topics, since it’s important to have this discussions
Thank you for this! You put down words I didn’t know how to say.
I have friends who have been undiagnosed for significant health issues because their doctors only focused on their weight.
Also, just because one is overweight doesn’t mean they don’t also have an ED. I was experiencing some disordered eating in my teens and when I finally talked about it with my mom, she said “but you’re not skinny enough for that.”
And then, after my divorce, I lost a significant amount of weight due to emotional reasons and I spent that Thanksgiving fielding comments from my family about “how good you look.”
It’s important we see the whole person and not assume things about their bodies. They may be on a life saving medication that causes weight fluctuation. They may have an underlying health issue.
So yeah, thank you so much for sharing your perspective.
speaking of pretty privilege, it is possible to have advantages as well as disadvantages for having that privilege and that’s what most people don’t understand and that’s why they get upset
Yes, people often forget/ignore there are disadvantages to pretty privilege/ being pretty, the movie Malena is a great example of this topic
Yeah, I feel like it has more disadventages than adventages
@@curerose6906 Yeah, that is true in many situations
@@curerose6906 dont think so? well compared to the absolute malice traditionally unattractive people get from everyday, i agree it has disadvantages but even within its extremes, unattractive people will literally have systemical oppresion from everywhere and anywhere. I dont even think whether or not either sides of the cone get it worse matters, its the fact that they are the sama side of the coin that matters when looking for solutions
In my opinion, as long as there will be "beauty standards", most people - if not everyone -'s relationship with body image, the way they look like and the way others look like will remain toxic and messed up.
38:37 I think everyone been played. KPOP IS NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN ABOUT THE MUSIC. The music is secondary or even tertiary. K-pop is about spectacle. The visual component has always been the main focus and over the years, esp. now, kpop has incorporated the lifestyle aspect into it. That's the main issue - it's not about the music. K-pop is about the k-idols. The k-idols are the product that's sold to the fans and that's why beauty takes centre stage.
Damn.i actually got into kpop because of their music and if theres attractive people behind it then thats just a bonus for fans.
It's hard to find passionate fans discussing about the music, choreography and makeup all of the art stuff that involves in kpop it's real sad
with skinny shaming, even if the idol WAS unhealthy, even if they DID have a disordered manner of eating, do you think they need *you* to tell them that????? considering a lot of eating disorders stem from mental health issues regarding a perception of the body, in what fuckin world would reaffirming their belief that their body is wrong be helpful? or worse, if their insecurities stem from a fear of being judged for their body, by judging them for being underweight you'd drive them into a wall, bc there is nothing they can do to avoid a 'bad' body. just stop judging people for their bodies, period
I'll not watch the video since it's a sensitive topic for me, but I know you will handle it in a great way (as always) ♡
It's okay. You're health must be your top priority. I wish you the best
TY for prioritizing your mental health and thank you for your faith in me. It means the world. I wish you all the best in your journey 💙
@@vipman2170 ?
@@vipman2170 how
Thanks for talking about the difference of treatment between Woojin and Hyunjin
i've noticed how in wonho's vlogs, he frequently talks about calories, macro nutrients like protein carbs etc but i never see anyone trend him for having an ed... but if a skinner female idol were to do the same.... oh no
well i mean it comes with the workout lifestyle especially for people bulking, counting amt of proteins is important with maintaining his physique so i dont really think its comparable unless that female idol is also bulking
@@orange1293 how is it different from dieting and working out? most men who bulk up at the gym totally have disordered eating and plenty of them have body dysmorphia. counting calories obsessively and working out so much is orthorexia... of course not everyone who works out has an ED but people who obsessively do... most likely have it
@@orange1293 ...... men can have eating disorders too.. the body dysmorphia among bodybuilders it massive... and i thought we all understood the fact that mental illness isn't defined by how you look...
(not saying that wonho has an ed. no. no one can say that about anyone. i was just pointing out the discrepancy but i don't think you understood my point)
@@fdscrl6016 i mean the idea of noting down micro nutrients is more about the proportionality whih means theyll just have to eat more protein or in a more sustainable way, ratio out the concentration of protein drinks. But yeah body dismorphia is becoming more prevelant and widely talked about in gym culture so its good that its pointed out.
@@lifeisyuyu read above
I know hyunjin has spoken before about how when he was a trainee he always felt like he had to work even harder to prove himself and prove his talents because other trainees in the company would tell him he didn’t have to work hard to debut since he was sure to anyway because of his looks. it can be a lot of pressure to prove that you earned your spot in a group because of your abilities and not just for your looks
it’s amazing to me how many idols tell stories of getting scouted by companies and invited to audition just because of their looks especially considering they start training as minors which means these grown adults are picking out children they think are attractive or will be visually appealing to an audience it’s just very off to me
you really offered some criticism that I’ve never seen any other k-tuber offer, you approach the issues with maturity… sorry for not wording my comment well but ah it’s refreshing to see! I’m annoyed I didn’t see your channel earlier
the reason why straight eyebrows seen in Korean as attractive is because it can make some appear more youthful and innocent , cute appearance an illusion
Ah, I see, thank you
39:00 Chaehyun is absolutely beautiful 😭 I don't know why people are complaining. I always find a comment somewhere about her look. Two words: Dis gusting
Some years ago I was a fan of Gfried (now of Yuju, Viviz and Yerin ^^) and guess who was my bias? I saw Umji as a future Miss South Korea, while others kept complaining. And now look at her. I was right.
Beauty is always subjective. There is no standard. It's a shame that international fans have become just like Koreans when it comes to these sick standards (I mean really sick. It's not normal!). But don't call them Koreaboos...
I remember an interview of a Korean woman, where beauty was the topic (had nothing to do with Kpop, popped up in the recommendations). I was really shocked about what the woman said (they need to be slim, nose, eyes, lips surgery and so on). I mean she really looked almost like a model, but still complained about her figure. I couldn't help but to comment that almost everyone would have to be jealous of her figure.
Cheryl have you seen that show in SK where they take "ugly people" make them beg and explain their case in order to win the public's heart and therefore have surgery
After the surgery they were kept in a specific hotel with no mirrors no contact with the out world and after the healing process their family react and they react on TV crying explaining how it is a blessing now that they are pretty etc
Edit: the show is called Let Me In
And the characters they used are bijin which is pretty in Japanese and Mi-in in Korean
Omg what is it called???
Omg that sounds disturbing
@@fdscrl6016 ill find it and check again
All consenting adults who got the surgery? Sounds good.
I am tired of people(not referring to everglow-up) saying jealousy is not a valid emotion or that it is something totally wrong and repress it. Like with every other emotions you van not move from it if you don't accept it in the first place and yes jealousy does not only come up from being a toxic person, but from the influence of the society! When it comes to appearance as it was said in video it is freaking expensive and while we can control some parts of it while not being rich those are rarely things people notice. The truth is that beaty standards did and are still deeply rooted in wealth which is the another thing you often can not control when being born. Pretty privilege does exist and it is visible in daily life. When picking a friend people often opt for those who stand out to them most in beauty, for most the factor is meeting beauty standards or having fashionable, aesthetic clothes. To sum up it is okay to feel jealous as long as you don't express those feelings by hating/hurting others.
This I always felt disgusting for feeling jealous so then I'd feel disgusting because of the thing I was jealous of and then I'd feel disgusted for being jealous it was a cycle that hurt a lot..
So happy that you are discussing a sensitive Topic that's unfortunately still happening in the K-pop music industry especially on social media
Honestly I’ve witnessed so many of these things first hand at this point I don’t even feel that shocked anymore and I hate that ppl still feel it’s okay to spread comments about idol’s bodies the way they do.
I’ve been a fan of DreamCatcher for a long time so I’m most familiar with the comments I’ve seen about them. I remember so many people running to their MV comments to talk about how “Gahyeon’s body looks so healthy don’t judge her!” because the other girls were naturally thinner. It always felt so unnecessary because it was the only time I saw people acknowledging her. After a few years she took up Pilates with some of the other members because she wanted to be stronger for their choreographies. In this time her vocal and rap skills improved immensely, she was finally getting lots of lines, and her dancing became more powerful (like she intended!!) but I saw so many comments saying they were worried for her because she “used to be so healthy!” Like???! She’s very blunt so she made it clear it was just for her personal improvement but so many kpop fans spun it into something dangerous and serious to suit their narrative. Now that that’s passed I see so many comments criticizing Yoohyeon, the tallest and naturally thinnest member for “being disgustingly thin” and comments saying “ugh this is not attractive I like REAL women’s bodies like ____” it’s so awful
Also thank you for shining a light on skinny shaming. It's disgusting that this is seen as okay or even encouraged! MY best friend in hs was naturally thin and petite. My aunt and cousin are the same. Some girls ARE naturally willowy/small bones. Lisa is very obviously the same.
When you see perfectly fine even stunning women and girls getting nit-picked and bullied by haters, as if they are some kind of soulless product. It can make almost anyone feel anxious about their looks, when you look at how harsh beauty standards are and what people expect you to look and be like as a woman. I've gotten really down by my looks feeling like an ugly pig that could never change. I honestly hope all of y'all realise that its much better to your true, authentic life and live an independent, intellectual life to make yourself happy than be some superficial trophy wife to please somebody else! Viral beauty standards are constantly changing with the times and its impossible to be an ideal beauty by the worldwide standards. Another thing I would like to say that its just so sad how male K-pop idols like Shindong can get away with literally being overweight, which he was- and thats fine by me as long as he's healthy and then he says that unlike men women cannot be fat. Double standards much. I also find it so twisted and unfair that showbiz people will glorify and treat the prettier celebs better yet overlook the ones they don't find visually perfect and insult them on their outer shell, when they were never ugly to begin with. Its so superficial and psychologically damaging tbh. From now on I just want to love myself.
The thing is, Shindong was saying the truth in his world. In the kpop industry, who knows better than him that men can squeak by (not freely, since he catches and always caught a lot of flack for being overweight and got ignored, edged out of the picture, treated as a token member, etc) but for a woman to do the same is pretty much impossible. So he may not have said it sensitively or perhaps he laughed when he said it....but it was true, wasn't it? What he did with difficulty couldn't be replicated by a woman in his industry, and even in his general society. It's a harsh fact but he was right.
@@rachelclark6393 That's why Koreans have to change their expectations on idols appearance.
eating disorders are rooted in striving for a sense of being in control not fatphobia
It definitely could be both …
Agree with everything, except Sunoo situation. This has been going on for a year, this issue has been trending multiple times, there is no way they are unaware of it, engenes started sending supportive messages to Sunoo and xsomehow it gets used to shame him even more. What is more, it's always the same members that have issues with Sunoo.
I also believe that not everyone is that outspoken and they are not only just friends, but co-workers. Sunoo being a butt of a joke is even part of official be:lift content now.
Honestly, briczennie's video is way more researched and her opinions sound like someone's who really been covering this situation for a long time and have more nuance.
You can't just say that everything is fine, they are friends and he should just speak up about it... This has been brewing for too long.
I agree with you.
getting into kpop is the worst thing I've ever done for my body image
Girl I wish we could be friends. I love your logical and objective way of thinking 👍👍
This was amazing! It blew my mind when you described pretty privilege with STAYs' reactions during Woojin's scandal vs. Hyunjin's.
14:05 straight brows are deemed more beautiful in South Korea because it gives a more youthful and soft look in contrast to arched brows that give off a stronger or harsh mature look
I haven't watched this yet but I was just now on twt and I saw two same pictures of Jay and one was so white washed and the other his natural tan skin tone (it were meet and greet pics which was out in the sun). It was so upsetting cause the latter looked loads better than the former and it was so unnecessary.
Exactly its disgusting how they try and make them look ill and ghost like. And we can all tell how unnatural they look with the white washing. I remember debating about that white washing crap with pics and even fancams of Exo Kai, Nct Haechan and Bts V to name a few as well as other tanned idols. Its like why cant ppl accept the complextion others they were born with?! Besides Jay is not even that tanned like his skin is a very light honey caramel like they better leave my sunkissed biases alone 😤
@A ?
i'm an asian from France and born skinny, i hate people's association skinny with anorexia when they even didn't know what is anorexia's disorder that is a mental disorder and people with normal body or fat can have anorexia's disorder but no, people didn't believe it! Like me born skinny, i can eat what i want, i don't gain weight like others skinny women born with it talked! And if us, skinny persons are accused to promote eating's disorder when these people didn't even know there are people born to be skinny and can't gain weight and when you loose weight, you can't control where in your body you will gain
I also hate when you happen to bias a visual (or multiple visuals) and people sometimes try to insinuate you only bias them because of their looks like yeah I’m sure some people do but why is it so hard to believe someone finds them genuinely talented and likes their personality
Apart from the topic , if someone (close) asks you to lose weight or take care of it , they aren't automatically fatphobic. Being obese and having diabetes is not "being comfortable with myself" . It all depends on how they tell it to you.
These not just happens in kpop but happens in the entire world of kpop. No 1 rule of thumb, NEVER try to satisfy people. These are the consequences.
and Dayum, didnt know Cheryl is a christian,
"Rome was not built in one day, neither is your self esteem." HUGE AMEN hahaha!
For me, beauty standards are like fashion, they come and go. It's on a constant cycle. So a day will come when each of us will have our specific body types as the standard. It might not be a global thing, but it will happen. So I'm out here wondering why I need fit into today's standards when I could be the pioneer of tomorrow's standard.
Thank you for talking about Sunoo issue and discussing it with mature manner unlike other people who doesn't think before they talk and just curse the idols.
Hi Cheryl! As someone who's over weight, this is a very sensitive topic I'm listening this anyways because I need to hear this. Thank you for talking about body image. Love you Cheryl 💗💖
As a side note: I do understand that fans wondering "if enhypen making comments about Sunoo's weight when he's not even over weight how will he view me as an over weight person" knowing that they don't know us, and we are not friends. However Cheryl you have to understand that as fans we look up to the groups we Stan, and if we get to meet them we want to look our best, but some of us hearing these comments that Jay, Sunghoon, and Ni-ki are saying make us wonder if our best isn't good enough for them. Please try and be a little more sympathetic with us, because you don't know to what extent Jay, Sunghoon, and Ni-ki's comments had on us. 💔 And for me this doesn't have anything defending Sunoo, however I'm disappointed about the jokes but I do not condone hating on the members. Bye again Cheryl and your beautiful bye! 💙💙 I love you!
Beautiful and necessary video, Cheryl! 👏🏻I hope maaaany people watch it in its entirety. Very well done, thank you!💜
As someone who has always struggled with my weight and how I look then later developed an eating disorder people in K-pop really get me mad sometimes mostly the fans because they will see an idol who looks on the skinner side and always make disgusting comments about how they are unhealthy or look disgusting then they are always making comments when an idol gains weight that they look disgusting and fat, but then they have the hypocrisy to have body positivity in their bio....
and when you call them out telling them that they shouldn't care for idol's bodies they say they are just "worried" but that's not true firstly they shouldn't care what the idol looks like at all nor shame then pretend to care, but they also blame the companies and they members of their groups when they say a word to said idol about how they look
they go ragging on Twitter about how they body-shame and create unrealistic standers and give idols eating disorders and act like they the fans are innocent, yet they contribute most to body issues in K-pop it's sickening and truly wrong
also
thank you, Sheryl, for making this video it was amazing and very good for people who are sensitive about this topic, so thank you for covering it with care, love you.
Annnnd this is why I subscribed. Always good to hear sensible and nuanced arguments. Keep it up! Also love the slides.
Your last message almost brought to my eye omg😭 thank you for that special message, I really needed to hear that.🤍 And awesome video as always. Take care of yourself Cheryl. I can’t wait for your next video.
OMG 25:28 fauxminism explained = PURE GOLD! Young girls can be the worst ageist misogynist against women above 30! Daddy's little lolita princesses forever is such an ingrained and insidious patriarchy trope! Some days when I look at K-pop GG [i'm a het woman above 30] I feel like they're the perfect 1950s stepford dolls pretending to be "doing what they themselves want" but are actually puppets on big male bosses' strings. This fact can't be stressed more often!👌👌👌👍👍👍
Thank you for always take the time to address this type of situations really seriously, researching, everything,I love your videos
The wait is over and it was definitely worth the wait.
I remember something I was told when I was a kid. Is it something the person can change in the next five minutes? No? Then be quiet. So easy. Simply don’t comment on peoples appearances. Thank you for a well written and presented video🧡
As someone who's been insecure since childhood because my own family compared me with my cousin, getting into kpop made me even more insecure. I've even had panic attacks when looking at certain idols who are thin and get thinner, my thoughts are "they were already thin and got thinner, why can't I lose weight?"
Sometimes I starve myself and then binge eat, it's been impossible for me to lose weight because of this.
I started watching and listening to kpop when I was 14, I'm now 24 but I'm still dealing with all of these problems.
It's been very difficult, I have eating disorder tendencies but I'm now going to therapy...
here for the thoughtful, considerate, and stellar content. very well done! i love your videos so much.
Wow I didn't even know how much I needed that message at the end...thank you cheryl💕
omg im so excited for this! been waiting for you to talk about this because i love your approach to controversial topics!
Thank you for making your channel a place we can discuss all kinds of topics with responsability. Im following the industry for 12 years, and seeing you raise awareness to so many different topics gave me the opportunity to learn more about this scene I love so much.
I hope you are proud of yourself as much as I am. Thank you for everything Cheryl💕💕
Straight brows basically make u look more youthful and childlike
i think this is one of your best videos, while i've known this for a while and have critically viewed it for the longest time, i think you put this problem into words so well, and explained it perfectly.
You're spitting facts seriously, I love your videos and the effort you put in them talkin about all these social topics and so on.
Thank you for making these video essays! I know they are harder to make than your typical kpop youtube content, but they're on important topics I wish people brought up more.
I'm sorry, I was late but thank you for putting so much work and time into this video. you've been so much and it's nice seeing what you do for us :) thanks, Cheryl. I love the meaning and this video. I might not get to watch it all but I'll try 😭😭
This is totally true, the situation is completely going too far with personal image and this is not only affecting idols, but fans are being affected too
Cheryl I have such a big respect for you and for your points of view
I started watching your videos because I wanted to improve my listening for an english certification, but I liked the way you speak and how you defend every point with logic and sources. I hope you're doing well and you can see how many of us are impressed and have started thingking critically about kpop stuff because of your videos
Thank you so much ✨✨💖💖
I LOVE HOW WELL RESEARCHED AND WELL SCRIPTED THIS IS - BIG LOVE TO CHERYL!!!
Excellent Journalism! You covered it, A-Z! Amazing video!
This was very well made Cherly. Not gonna lie, I didn't think I was going to stick around for the entire hour(almost) but here I am. Well curated, informed and delivered. And I'm glad you touched upon Enhypen's case, I was much needed. 👏👏
This video is amazing! I could see your care and respect towards the issue and people who honestly wonder about it, and your last message was beautiful. Videos like this help people to have more honest and thorough conversations about topics that affect some people greatly. Your writing is also amazing!
thank you for addressing the sunoo situation! u literally put my thoughts into words perfectly. i really hope that people who really do care sunoo and this whole situation would watch this and understand it in this point of view instead of joining the hate train and using this as an opportunity to hate enha and gain clout.
I think ur my fav kpop youtuber by faaar! I love how well constructed your videos are and how you talk about serious topics in such a mature way.
Really great video with an important point. I’m super interested by this. Thanks