Bencb with Patrick "Pads" Leonard | The Current State of Online Poker
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- Опубліковано 2 лис 2019
- Patrick Leonard, ambassador of partypoker and one of the founders of bitBstaking, joined Bencb on the podcast to talk about the current state of online poker!
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4:00 Thoughts on Pokerstars vs partypoker
9:33 Origin of 9 handed poker online
12:00 State of guarantees
15:00 PKO vs Vanilla tournaments
20:12 Why 6 max PKO's?
24:32 Structure in 6 max vs 9 max
27:36 Bubble Rush on partypoker
30:55 Pro's crush PKO's
32:50 Learning curve of PKO's
37:00 Staking or not?
43:20 Why does Patrick Leonard stake players?
48:00 The importance of community
54:55 Tip for who wants to become a pro
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Raising the rake more than 20% on low stakes tournament was the biggest money grab ever.
Ben thanks for shedding light on this topic and using your platform to voice it. I am a recreational with the dream of becoming a pro one day and I am worried about the state of online poker and what it will look like in a few years. At minimum I would be happy if it remained fun with an opportunity to make a little money on this side. Keep up the good work, it is appreciated.
This interview was infinitely better than the Jaime Staples podcast w/ Pads. Really enjoyed it.
Two legends of the game that want the best for the players. Respect.
The quality of this podcast is amazing. Thanks a lot. Interesting pespective on 6-max and 6-max PKO's in general.
Also was interesting to discover stables and how it works.
very cool chat of 2 great poker minds! thanks for uploading
Really really good ! Thanks for the video guys ;)
Good pod. Looking for more!
AGREED!! Love the knew gladiator structure
cool content. finally you followed gary vee's advice huh? :D pretty abrupt ending tho, is there a part 2 coming?
great stuff !!!
What is the the link of the partypoker discord channel which was mentioned?
amazing podcast really enjoyed it would love to see u two in the future thanks
That's awesome to hear, we are looking forward to see more of them too!
Thanks bro
@@patrickleonard1929 yeah man sure would love to join ur team one day as well seems like you guys exert a lot of efforts just lookes up ur stacking n coaching site
Love you new fight Brother! We need more PPL like you who raised this issue ...Or poker will die!! We need Bigger prize like before 2016...
Great podcast, be carefull with sound next time the guest is using those kind of earphones because volume is a little bit low.. Cant eait to see the next one
Pads, no days off... much respect
Great Podcast but the volume is incredibly low ;/
I personally prefer 9-max poker or even 10-max in the Fifty50-format.
But it really seems like majority likes short-handed games. :(
Spotify?
Give us some mtt player rankings
enjoyed the podcast. However as a rec I prefer 9 max cash for practise as its the closest to playing in live card rooms which is what I prefer. Is this wrong? I would play 6 max if card rooms would do the same.
6max is good practice too. 6max is 9max simply without UTG UTG+1 and UTG+2. You basically practice your Lateposition and Blindbattle game with a little bit less ante in play ;)
The issues of the poker community should be tackled as an endangered coral (poker sites).
Algae, crabs, and other life forms as managers, executives of those sites.
And fish and sharks, as themselves.
lol
Hiya, very interesting, thanks. Could one of you please clear up the following - I have been told that i Cannot have HEM2 running while I am playing on Party poker, I also play on stars and want to play on both at once. Do they actually think that I have time to manually create HH - import them into HEM and somehow get the HUD working on Party, seems completely illogical and makes no sense to me. Live chat told me if I have it running they will close my account and steal my funds. Please advise - thanks in advance
Live chat did not tell you that.
If they did, they are wrong. It is fine to run holdem manager
@@bendover4773 I assure you I have way better things to do with my time than make things up on youtube, they didn't use the word steal they used the word redistribute. I appreciate your response but am not willing to risk my roll on the response of a random reply - but thanks for taking the time - I was hoping to get a definitive response from Patrick.
@@67geetar why don't you ask a partypoker rep on Twitter or Facebook? Also if you look on their website they have a list of allowed and disallowed programs
@@bendover4773 Hey mate, yer I've emailed them, the more I think about it though I can't help thinking that it's not a good idea to play there ..... collusion, bots etc have been picked up on by players analysing their databases, also, people without morals will probably have developed their own hand grabbers and run huds with EV calcs, decision trees etc. At first glance the thought of playing on a level playing field seemed great but how can we be sure it really is level - without HH we can't. Anyways, thanks for your time and good luck at the tables.
thanks for views. keep going
44:35 I live in Argentina and let me tell you it is TOUGH down here.
What are you talking about Ben, 1% regular on a poker site? where you play? plese told me. couse on stars are at least 20% regular
I am more talking about the regulars that are trying to make a change. Most regs dont care. So to speak, only 1% try to make an impact, talk to Stars and change something. But its simply not enough.
What is the latest time a rational player would late reg a Bounty Builder?
Around 40-50bbs if soft, if tough 70-80bb
Alguém legenda isso em PTBR por favor!
My question in terms of this topic is : How do poker stables effect the poker environment? Are they doing good or bad for the game? Would really love a answer by ben or pads
That's simple, they're extremely bad
BAD .... especially when they are sharing HH and getting an analyst to work out the most profitable way to exploit population tendencies, it's fine to do that to your own HH and you should be, sharing large databases should be illegal - imagine how well you could do with all that data.
@@67geetar Sharing the HH's is illegal. Well i know from some stables that they actively do share the HH from the horses, most stables even do ghost people. I know as a matter of fact that BBZ isn't doing the ghosting part as least. I see stables also very bad because they suck out the poker environment. I don't mind that games get more competitive.Nevertheless stables do let recs loose there money at a higher rate. This explains why also a lot of the recs get lost over the last couple of years. The Sunday Storm is the perfect example for that. It had in the past 250K GTD nowadays it became a 125K GTD. The facts that ben and pads mentioned that let decrease GTD's are right. Either they absolutly underestimate or willingly didn't mention the part that stables are poison to the poker environment.
@@planbsiegen it was 300k guar not even that long ago...
@@planbsiegen Its a complex question that requires a complex answer. I can´t even scratch the surface with what Im about to say but I think there are some positives as well as negatives. Pads alluded to the fact that the Big 109 used to be a 50k guaranteed for many years. After realising and publicising that most of his horses were actually losing money in that tournament, he banned his horses from playing it and the guaranteed end up being reduced to what it is now. A 12k GTD. So for years on the backs of professional players, the prizemoney in the Big 109 was being propped up by money from stables. And recs were taking shots at tourneys that never would have been that high if it weren´t for stables.
On the other hand, stables obviously make tourneys tougher now but the bigger problem is that the game is not as popular online to recs as it was 10-15 years ago. Stables aren´t the only problem either. Every player is getting better, not just staked players. There is a multitude of resources now, no-one is happy losing, even break-even to slightly winning players have heard of GTO. People are studying to get better. A lot of pros have fallen by the way side because their strategies are so dated. You can´t play like a nit and crush like you used to be able to. This just means that winning players become losing but losing professional players don´t hang around long since poker is usually their only source of income and so after they go broke, there is nobody replacing them and that´s part of the reason why MTT´s are slowly dying.
man i couldn't agree more on pads pko changes. can someone forward that to a pokerstars employee lol
Haha thanks bro! LET US GAMBOOLLLLLL
weird pads mentions how big GTDs attract recs but partypoker lowered their GTDs when they made their tournies freezeouts... and their bounty tournaments are freezeouts besides the gladiator
qazxsw111 qazxsw111 reentry‘s are just not very good for the games. If the best players reenter as much as they want because they can afford it, once you run deep there will be all the crushers left which makes it really hard for rec‘s or weak regs to have a chance of getting scores. So the sites need to find a balance between cutting out reentrys and keeping guarantees high.
Good point Antonia Pavlozvicen. It differs alot in the gtd if its reentry or not
what's vanilla tournaments?
freeze out
i read it often but why are reentry bad? i mean u can make looser reshoves or OR and gamble a little bit
what is a ps.go? playstation? wtf
PKO = Progressive Knock Out. It is a tournament format
@@RaiseYourEdge oh okay thx ...als kennt i wos dafia wenn da englische so undeitlich redet he
Can someone please explain why partypoker ruined 6-max gladiators..I was in love with this tournies and had crazy winrate ....Cccccccccccc
all the tournaments i was winning on they remove everytime the 1,10 rebuy splash used to be 60 k guaranteed it went down down down now its gone and that went over 100 k i got like final tables 3 times a week in 2013 i won micromillions saturday splash 26000 playeers for 25750 and then i won 15 000 in that daily 1,10 rebuy splash such good times all gone now because they cut the guarantees in half 3 times in a row they systamatically killed this tournament just bring them back or make rebuy zoom tournaments daily come on pokerstars step up your game
Yeah, something has to happen! Thx for sharing!
Heads Up PSKO Zoom Tournaments are booming on Stars. PartyPoker should really make some moves and add them to their schedule.
Yeah, with the reduced rake, I'd play those all the time!
Not my favourite type of tournament, but I did enjoy them when I've played them.
I'm just not sure how profitable the lowest stakes on PS are, if at all.
The poker dream is dead. Create a dream and players will come. Only degen gamblers and grinders left, where are the dreamers? :)
If it was dead the sites wouldn't exist anymore,nothing on tv,nothing on youtube and no new content coming out virtually everyday,when in fact it's the exact opposite and more of everything...Very far from dead,it's just the sites don't have any ex players with creative minds advising them on formats to suit everyone.
@@johnhopkinson4054 Sorry "dying" is the correct word :-)
What is the poker dream for you Richie Rich? By the way, I think I played some hands against you on partypoker these last weeks (I'm almost sure you play 2$ fastfoward hahaha)
Dead doesn't equal broke in the staking world!
Pokerstars prizepool are dying? Why!!! WE NEED A NEW MONEYMAKER...is there any prophecy?
Patrick can you coment on the issue that Party stake players so that they can cover there garanted
Don’t think this is true mate. Tournies overlay every single day that could be easily avoided. And so much value goes into sattelies
Ben i see what you did there, decrease rake to attract recreationals, i realy think recreational players don't give a fuck about rake because they play to have fun and maybe earn little bit here and there, while decreasing rake goes so much more into advantage to reg players because you guys will be able to rekt these recreationals and meanwhile earn more money than you would usualy, love the content correct me if i'm wrong, btw i'm not saying it's a bad thing to do lol i wish there are more rec players like me i am rec also but i think with expirience i have a bit of advantage on rec players that are playing for year or two.
record at a higher volume next time
I see you volume guys in virtually every chat. I don't get it. Can't you just turn up your volume? I'm legitimately asking, not trolling.
The stakes these guys play isn’t the real world. I would bet both these guys buy in for more tournaments on some sundays than most people make in a year.
I am a low stakes grinder of almost 10 years. Poker is fine. It depends what you want. Do you want to make a million dollars a year? Or do you just not want to have to go to work in the morning? Well this is 10 years now and I’ve never bought in for games above $30.
He makes some valid points, but I think he is misinformed about non-poker players running the MTT schedule on Stars. I know this as an ex-employee of Stars. As much as I hate them for what they’ve done to online poker and how their sr management runs the poker department, it is a fact that some very passionate and relatively successful poker players do all the ground work when it comes to running the cash game and MTT offering.
Lol Pads, yeah you stake because of the community....
I read a blog post of yours 2 years ago where you have written that you made >600k profit with BitB that year, which was like 1.5 the amount you have won grinding. Since then BitB has grown so you are prolly even making more off it now
Keep tryin to BS people
Well thats the point. If you focus on what you enjoy, you try to provide value and grow a community, very often people tend to make way more money.
Whereas those who soley focus on making more money in the first place, dont make any money at all.
So from my POV, he deserves it, he provides an opportunity to thousands of people to escape the slavery of 9-5, pursue the dream of a pokerpro and supports them with incredible content and mentoring. What is BS about it? What is wrong about trying to deliver good value and change peoples life and as a side product making money through it?
We from RYE we also have core values of delivering INSANE value day by day. Thats our core focus and on the side we also make some money.
I am not against what he does, I am just saying he is trying to BS people by saying he is solely doing it for the good of the community and that he is barely earning anything off it, while in reality this is his primary source of income and is in the high 6figure area.
And also he is not "changing the lives of thousands of people". He said it himself in this very podcast that they hardcore select applicants. They only take people who are already winning players, have a clean slate and good stats. Most of them could make it as a pro on their own anyway. And you think Pads cares about them? The guys in the lower tiers he practically never has contact to them, they are just money printers for him.
Once again, I do not have anything BitB as a company, I am just annoyed by him talking his usual BS to present himself holier than Mother Theresa.
Hey this is bullshit. Think about the guarantees. If things go from 200k to 50k everybody loses but especially stables. I make more than 2x playing than I do staking for sure and I think elmerixx/European have been making infinitely infinitely infinitely more. About guys in lower tiers, Ben can even tell you this is bs, we just went on holiday with them all to Budapest. There is nobody in the world who is making more money staking than playing poker and plays over $100abi
@@krendipont261 If you wont have ever had your own stable you wont understand how high expenses are to manage the stable and pay coaches for good content. You make way more money playing on your own than managing a stable. If you grind highstakes yourself, you easily reach 500-1000$ hourlies. Never ever will you make more with managing a stable.
AND YES, he reaches thousands even though they are very selective because their enviroment encourage others to get their shit together and apply and try to get in the stable, even though they got rejected. I had many people approaching me who tried to improve their grind routines and increased their volume and get better stats to get accepted by bitb. Even though they got rejected, they still improved.
We just went to Budapest and I met all their students and its insane how much they appreciate the enviroment and how well they are being taken care off. You can see how much they care about the students. Dude, please stop spreading your bs here if you have no clue about running a stable nor how bitb operates.
@@RaiseYourEdge yeah right, he reaches thousands because thousand try to get into bitb but only 5 people get in... do you even believe this yourself? And meeting the low tiers guys for a few days to hang out, run sims and do some fine dining and sightseeing is your definition of caring about people yeah?
The numbers I threw out are based on Pads's own blog post, so either he was lying there or he is doing it now.
But yeah, keep on bashing on anyone who has any critical viewpoint...
🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞 # Suggestion - I hope someone sees this comment, Party's hotkeys are terrrible.
On stars I right click mouse, table folds...simples. Party lolololol... Ive played over 2 million hands on stars in the last 3 years and minor problems like this keep me from playing on party. Software is terrible. Party will never compete for most grinders, because most grinders love the speed and fluidness which stars provide. Party is using the same sofware for how long now ? 2010? longer ????
Software is OK now imo. They updated alot in the recent 12 months. But I agree with you about the hotkeys, its also really tilting for me. Other than that PP is really good, 5% rake on bounty tourneys instead of 12% on ps in 20 dollar buyins n below
@@manskeland1093 Thats the fustrating part, I know their rake is excellent. I love stars interface speed and security, evrything else is a disgrace stars related. Party fix the software, ask someone who plays four zoom tables if this really matters, more than anything....improved is not fixed..I play video games based on game play, party aint got it yet.
No custom hotkeys is a huge barrier.
Stake me I have 60k on hendon mob and 15k on pocket 5s