Gibson Les Paul R9 refinish. PART 1 [How to remove Gibson factory lacquer]
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- Опубліковано 10 бер 2023
- New project. This time, a 2019 Gibson Customshop R9 was brought to my workshop. Factory Gibson nitro lacquer is as always sticky, soft and thick. In addition, it became pink and dirty in the binding area. And this is not correct. Therefore, the factory soft nitro lacquer will be completely removed and the guitar will receive a new coating with the correct hard nitro lacquer with a beautiful relic. For this project, I'll be using lacquers and stains from NITORLACK, a company that makes amazing materials for finishing guitars. I have already tested all the materials that they sent me and you can see the results in the previous videos.
Link to these wonderful lacquers here: nitorlack.com/en/?wpam_id=63
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![How to refinish Gibson Les Paul R9 [PART 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qHcaSaUVswg/mqdefault.jpg)
![How to refinish Gibson Les Paul R9 [PART 2]](/img/tr.png)
![How to Refinish GIBSON Les Paul R9. [PART 3] R9 to '59 conversion](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZzFZjHXb9SU/mqdefault.jpg)
This is the reason Historic Makeovers, and many other refinishers, have a thriving business. Keep up the good work Gibson, you’re keeping hundreds of people in employment that don’t actually work for you..😎👍
😁
hater much?
Amen to THAT!!!!
@@strawsparky33 and I’ll let you in on another secret. That “old brown glue” they use to glue the maple to the mahogany, nothing like the phenyl formaldehyde they used on the 50’s. Stays soft, will never set like glass like the pf glue.
@@GrovesGuitarsDo you want a glue to dry hard as glass? Isn’t a bit of flexibility better for durability?
I am shocked at how much plasticizer is in the paint used on that R9. Gibson advertises how they still use Nitro as a finish, but it looks like they use plastic paint to give the guitar its color, then cover it with a thin coat of nitro to give it that nitro feel/smell. I need to do more homework on this.
Maybe the guy on the paint machine had a bad day putting all the ingredients together :D
This is why im a fan of the Faded finishes with half the laquer.
Agree
At least you know what you are getting
The control you have done with the heat gun, avoiding burnt spots, is impresive. Congrats!
Thank you. Nitro lacquer softens quite easily with temperature. If it is too hot, then it starts to burn much faster than wood. That's why I always check the temperature by hand. But with polyester varnish it is more difficult, as it softens at a higher temperature. And there is a risk of overheating the wood.
Satisfying and heart breaking at the same time. I've got a 60th Anniv. R9 and its sad to know its painted like this. Your technique and workmanship was very satisfying. Great video!
Thank you
I like when you used the acetone on the top, it looks so beautiful with the finish removed
Thank you
So back in 2019 l buy the all new R9 from the all new Gibson Company, my 2019 R9 was suppose to be the closest thing to a real 59 “The Holy Grail” ….. After seeing you strip that 2019 R9 all that plasticiser “lm shaking my head with disgust” My R9 will never ever age naturally like a real 59. So Really nothing has changed at Gibson .. Thank you for the enlightenment, very educational and very much appreciated …….
Thank you
I think you still could say the R9 was the closest guitar to a real 1959 Gibson itself had made.
If you want the closest to closet you need a Murphy lab. They use the same nitro as they did in 59.
A brand new 59 in 1959 had sticky lacquer as well.. Don't fall for the hype. "Plasticizer" has always been in the nitro. Those real 59s are over 60 years old now. They didn't look that aged in only a couple years.
@@Tonskiislegit do we know that for sure?
That was amazing. R9s are beautiful guitars just for $10k I am not really missing out on much when my home builds sound just as good for $2k.
This is such a great video, haven't seen a refin like this on UA-cam before
Thank you
Can't wait for the rest! Will look awesome I'm sure!
Thank you
Wow. Your attention to detail is impressive. Love this channel.
Thank you
You always give us such good information, and the quality of your videos is top notch - spaciba Bolshoi!!
Thank you!
Have been waiting for this for a while! Thank you!
Thank you
The balls this guy has. Acetone to an R9. Huge.
😁😁👍
Really great work. Can’t wait for next instalment. New sub.
Thank you
Wow! Very impressive work my man!
Thank you
This needs more views.
Great video.
Thank you!
Honestly, it's beautiful without any stain!
Thank you
Hey that English is improving sir! Nice job. 👍 thank you for all of the awesome videos that maintain the history of these guitars!
Thank you
The pink hairs of some guitar cases cause this kind of reaction on contact with nitrocellulose varnishes. I changed the case after sanding and revarnishing the guitar with nitro varnish and in the new case I no longer had this problem. Nitro varnishes are very sensitive to certain chemical reactions with certain materials, such as certain guitar support foams as well. It is always necessary to monitor after a few days if this phenomenon is not observed. If it starts to happen then it is better to change the element that is in contact with the nitro varnish and look for another that will not have this reaction.
Это было очень подробно и точно. Мне очень нравится это видео и твоя работа и то, как артистично ты вкладываешь время в свои гитары.
Это было очень элегантно, а также поучительно для меня, и я надеюсь, что вы скоро опубликуете вторую часть. Спасибо за это ваше видео на UA-cam.♥♥♥♥
(Я использовал Google Translate для этого текста)
Thank you. The next episode will be out soon. The translator translated very correctly.
Great video! I'm surprised the acetone didn't eat through the binding.
Thank you. The binding deluted mor slowly than lacquer
keep it up man!hope im gonna get the money for a pair of pick-ups🤘🏼🤘🏼.keep the good work goin!
Thank you
It makes me worried that I have a R9 about the same, in factory burst. Late 2019 I drove up to Sweetwater to buy it because it was the last batch of the 60th anniversary of the 59. no problems with it but it does have a lot of red die bleed on to the binding. another great video Alex and rock and roll for all.
Thank you
That red dye bleed is intentional as original '59s had it too to some extent. They apparently went a bit overboard on some of the new reissues.
I really enjoy this channel . Can you please add audio clips of the guitars you review . I hope to build guitars like these one day . Thank you Dr Nitro
Thank you. I will make demo on Part 3
Awesome video !
Thank you
Thank you you so much for sharing your experience, I think it's not the fault of the Gibson workers because they have been told to have high production figures and they are under the pressure. However the quality department should have dealt with these issues , this raise a red tag and a lot of concerns. But again this is the century of every about figures not quality. That's why in my opinion it is much better supporting a trustworthy small luthier businesses and encourage them and they will definitely do their best work and you are are my friend such a talented skilled knowledgeable luthier and please share your contact details so we can cooperate in the future. Keep the good work going please. Thank you. 👍👍👍👍👏👏👏👏
Thank you!
Thanks for the informative video. I have a Les Paul that has been refinished on the top (thin nitro) but still has the "old" and thicker finish on the back. You can feel that at the binding. Do you think I can just strip the back and neck to do a more natural oil finish and keep the nitro on the top? What would you suggest?
Thank you. Painting part of the guitar is always difficult then repeating all guitar.
Wow! Excellent video man. I had no clue. To perhaps give the new ownership an out, the new models were introduced mid 2019 so maybe this is an earlier model? That or it took a period of time to adjust the formula. I have a 2020 USA LP and while I'm sure there is plasticizers in the nitro it certainly hasn't helped mine from easily scratching, denting and starting to check. I also didn't have the dye running into the binding. Additionally the cherry on the neck on mine is starting to fade noticeably behind the frets where I play the most. Maybe mine has a different formula or the CS uses a different type or the formula was adjusted at some point between new ownership and mid 2020 when mine was made. Whatever the deal is this is an excellent demonstration of how it ideally should NOT be done.
Thank you
My 2023 USA 335 already has a few checking lines on the neck.
wow, if this hasn't broken the internet yet:),...im used to corners being cut by the "great American instrument manufacturers" ,...but on an R9, holy sh#t,... what an embarrassment. , wonderful video again 👍 ,im so glad ive never pulled the trigger on one of these yet. I've always appreciated your honesty on Custom Shop Fenders too.
Thank you. In my opinion Fender meke better CS guitars (i mean painting and relic )
Excellent I always tell my customers it's not the same as 60s. They don't understand
I agree
Amazing amount of plasticizers in the finish. Being a 2019 Model I wonder if newer Gibson CS use the actual Aniline Dye on the wood.
It would also be interesting to see an actual vintage Gibson finish stripped to see the differences.
Great Content, Thank You
Thank you
9:00 Them chuckles not sure whether to cry or to laugh. Great job on that guitar btw.
Hi! This is exactly the tutorial im looking for thanks! I do have a question though, is it possible to only remove the top nitro with acetone and then refinish it without messing up the back and the binding?
Yes, you can that is how I strip LP's...I don't trust myself with a heat gun lol. Just be very careful, even more careful around the binding
Have alot of clean cloth rags, and lots of acetone. Gibson uses plasticized lacquer, and a thick vinyl sealer underneath. It's amazing once you get all that off, how resonant the guitar becomes.
To remove nitro only of the top is difficult while acetone very fluid.
Fantastic and clean job.. my only question is the heavy use of Acetone .. do you find any damage to the binding in such use? when attaching binding you really dont need much to get it to melt.. perhaps the flash time is enough and your contact time is short to prevent any such damage to the existing binding.. your process is fantastic.. love your vids
Thank you. Nitro dissolves faster than plastic, so this is not a problem. Enough time to wash off the varnish and not damage the binding. But sometimes a vintage Royalite binder after acetone becomes brittle and small cracks may appear in the future. But for a relic it's ok.
Dear what I can do, my ESP les paul dusted the allen key socket in truss rod, what can I do to recover the fitting . Thanks
Thank you for this video. Gonna remove paint on my Jr. What was that tool you used to lift paint after you used heat gun?
Thank you. I use surgical small scalpel (ophthalmic)
Great video!
Thank you for sharing.
After watching you work I’m glad I only bought a 2019 Traditional and not a high dollar CS. And probably never will.
Thank you
That’s why I sold mine. It felt plastic like. I got one with the Brazilian board and the finish was much better.
Maybe for such specific guitars (with Brazilian fretboard) gibson used other lacquer. I don't know. I have heard that necks with Brazilian rosewood manufactured for Gibson in China.
@@8BombCustom def not China. I know someone in the custom shop. Most if not all the Brazilian boards are very old and left over from a long while ago. Was sad about the current reissues and their “feel” though.
Good video 👍👍
Thank you
Excellent!
Thank you
Damn that's satisfying!
Thank you
@@8BombCustom I just finished stripping an epiphone V and it was messy!
Dr. Nitro!! Does my 2020 Standard use this same quality paint?
Maybe. I don't know.
Curious to know if Gibson uses the same lacquer on the true historic and Murphy Lab Guitars, any idea? Figured this was the case with the lower end Gibson Guitars, using some form of Nitro hybrid. Going through a tour of the Fender Corona Factory was told they can only use a small percentage of "Real Nitro" because of meeting government standards (limits) for waste and emissions.
Thanks again for the video, great work as always.
Thank you. People said that real nitro used in Murphy Lab, butthat what i seen last month was disappointing. Anyway i think they use different nitro but still not on all Murphy Lab guitars. I want to believe 😁
Very nice
wo that's a really nice R9..
Yes, thank you.
At 13:20 the "2001: A Space Odyssey" breathing begins.
😁
GREAT VIDEO! When you watch video of Gibson employees spraying their plastic lacquer on these guitars, notice how they do not use face masks at all. Its probably because the lacquer is more acrylic and NOT toxic fumes.
Thank you Dave. I noticed that
In Gibson fatory don't used breath mask. Perhaps this is due to the mega strong hood. But I think with poisonous nitro the safety technique is strictly prescribed.
The wood can’t Breath🙈This guitar is going to Roar💥
👍
Someone that works in the Gibson CS had said that the reason they use this type of Nitro is so that the guitars
that are shipped to the dealers as Standard CS models will not have any finish cracking before hand. This Nitro will harden over time and become brittle with age just like the old originals. Custom shop guitars can be ordered with finish checking from the start and these use a different Nitro.Anyone that orders a "Murphy Lab" gets the more brittle nitro with age checking. Gibson does not want dealers to be sending back R9's or any Custom shop model due to finish checking the customers did not want.Those that want the checking have to order a Murphy lab.
Naturally this is true. Factory production is always reinsured. Most new guitar buyers love the glossy, shiny finish. Like a new car. Those who want an aged look pay extra to Murphy Lab. But this still does not change the fact that soft and thick varnish on a standard custom shop kills resonance. But unfortunately they can’t make guitars any other way.
Where is the Holly wood headstock veneer? Did they not use it on early Gibsons? It looks like the headstock was just painted black.
All CS Gibsons is with Holly on the headstock. It was here too. 12:15
I like your skills.
Thank you
Hi, do you have a workshop in Poland?
I am in Belarus. In Poland I work with frescoes.
If Gibson CS have put a coat of nitro lacquer like you use on VOS R9s, some of those paints might be cracked before someone buy.
and some guitar shops would send those guitars back to Gibson as defective product.
So I think Gibson is not wrong, they just choose an efficient manufacturing rather than similar replica.
maybe.
That's correct. Fender does the same thing. It's simply impossible to make a guitar with a super thin coat of nitro with no (or very little) plasticisers in it and have it arrive at a dealer without some kind of stuff having happened to the finish. That would be prohibitively expensive for the end user (us).
I subscribed because you know what you are doing. The guitar natural color is beautiful without all that ugly red. Thank you
Thank you
I wonder, if you heat up any guitar finish, will it become softer and more compliant until it returns to room temp?
It depends on the guitar. I've seen some guitar bodies split in half at the glue seam while trying to remove the finish.
Allmost any lacquers become softer with heat. When they cold then they become a normal harness.
so you take the headstock gold les paul silk screen off, im very interesting to see how you remake golden les paul silk screen, hope have headstock side by side to compare when you finish the guitar , is silk screen right, i think i watched some gibson factory video some years ago it was silk screen.
Usualy I use silkscreen frame vith true vintage logo.
To each thier own, I would have left it alone and just played it.
I do agree that the finish they are using is a little disappointing, I'd rather just have old-school nitro even if it cracks and so forth.
On another note, there are tooling marks on the side of the headstock of my 2019 Les Paul Special Original Series (great guitar) which I've seen people complain about, and I get it, but on the other hand I remember at age 19 or 20 back in the mid 80's I almost bought an original Gibson double neck like Page played and couldn't believe how bad the fit and finish were, looked quite crude in some areas and that shows me that that's how Gibson's could be even back then. I just ignore the little things I guess and play them.
Wouldn't using acetone destroy the binding for the guitar? I'm thinking about refinishing a Gretsch 5420, but I'm worried about destroying the binding using acetone to strip the poly.
Acetone don't work with polyester. Binding soften much slower than Nitro.
@@8BombCustom What would you recommend for stripping polyurethane?
you a good man
Thank you
I had a 1992 Gibson SG Standard & the nitro was very thin & hard. I have a 2019 Gibson SG Junior now & it just feels nothing like the finish from 30yrs ago. Feels cheap & plastic. Would Acetone remove the nitro but leave the cherry stain? Thanks.
The stain will be removed along with the varnish by 90%
I’m amazed how easy that came off on the back and sides. Great video look forward to seeing the porgress
Thank you
Just wondering, is it just Gibson that does plastified nitro paintjobs or do the other companies do this as well?
All companies do this. Hard nitros are very rarely used and only in custom shop lines.
It’s a guitar & a damn good one at that play the damn thing it’s not wall art.
Thank you
Chill out!
@@dada1952 You must be a cork sniffer.
I'm curious what blade is that and how it would make the job easier vs. a pudy knife/ scrapper?
Thank you. Scrapper is good for polyester sometimes. But it is hard work.
@@8BombCustom its just a regular craft knife you use?
@@psp777 This is a medical "eye" scalpel
that heat gun removes that lacquer like on the Fenders I've done with their poly paints. It's better than sanding at least
I've seen better finish on a chibson how did that leave the factory
How much does a refinish devalue an original Les Paul Deluxe from the 70s, if it was done good?
1200 euro
Would be nice to show how your finish reacts when stripped with a heat gun, as a comparison I mean.
It was in previous video
Why did the acetone not melt the binding?
You will find about all the materials that I use and about all the nuances of working with them on my Patreon in the Maker level
www.patreon.com/8bombcustom
What happened to putting Hollywood on the face of the head stock?
Holly wood has a very smooth texture and is very dense and resilient, almost like bamboo. This veneer provides additional protection against breakage of the headstock. Now instead of it they use plastic that eats sound. But on Customshops still use holly.
I wonder if the finish is flexible like that to stop people relic-ing their own guitars with the hot/cold checking treatment because Gibson would prefer they buy a Murphy Lab model. ??? What do you think?
Yes, it's possible. If you want a relic, you have to pay 😁
WOW!
Isn't the wood supposed to be dyed to achieve the desired color and then lacquered? What am I missing here? Gibson doesn't do that?
Re fin job lower the value?
Not by me 😁
hi...what is the width of the guitar body?
Hi. What do you mean
@@8BombCustom 13 inches?the width of the deck
I have a 2018 r8 that looks to be painted like this. The binding It’s turning red and pink everywhere. Like the comment below mine my heart breaks watching this. I spent good money on a dream
Why is the raw mahogany's color so bright yellow on the Gibson, almost like maple? Isn't mahogany supposed to be dark reddish-brown in color? On vintage Les Pauls the mahogany is always dark red like brick. What kind of mahogany is this?
This is Honduran mahogany. It is bright. But if it is soaked in oil, lacquered or polished, it will look darker. On vintage guitars, exposed woods are polished and soaked with grease and grime, making them look dark.
It’s plantation Fiji Mahogany. Always lighter in colour than old growth, and way softer.
Why not use Methel Ethel Keytone instead of Acetone?
You can use it too. The result is the same.
My Les Paul also has red aniline dye on the binding. If Gibson's lacquer is so soft, cracks are hard to come by.
On Gibson factory nitro is allmost impossible make a relic. Only with a blade. That do Tom Murphy and Murphy Lab
I have a bog standard LP from 2014 and it is already checking. The lacquer is always soft out of the factory - even in the 50s.
@@cosmocalypse3708 Yes, I've seen a few Gibsons on which the factory lacquer cracked. But it remained just as sticky. It depends on the effect of ultraviolet light on nitro. From long exposure to light, the molecular bonds in nitrocellulose are destroyed, the lacquer becomes more fragile. At the same time, some of the plasticizers also harden. But if you keep the guitar in a case all the time, then the varnish will remain like new. I recently held a 1957 Gibson Junior in my hands without a single crack or darkening in the varnish.
8bomb - I left you this message on Instagram also. Do you have any suggestions how to remove the finish on new Gretsch? I did two of them and none of these techniques work. I had to use 40 grit random orbital sander. It was brutal. The dust is even toxic. That is some nasty armor plastic they put on the new Gretsch in Japan. I have no idea what is on there. You think Gibson is bad but Gretsch is a whole other world. If you have any experience with them let me know what you suggest. I would rather not use a sander. I have two more to do, to turn them into real instruments.
Almost all Asian guitars are finished with a 2-component polyester lacquer that is similar in properties to epoxy. Such varnishes rarely react to heat and do not react at all to solvents. There is only one way out - a grinder, a scraper and a lot of patience.
@@8BombCustom Thanks for confirming this to me. It was a hell of job. Nothing would touch that armor. The nasty stuff is bulletproof. I did get it all off.
I did make them into great vintage-feeling and sounding guitars, also refretted them with high stainless frets. Totally different guitars now but it was a nightmare.
This is what modern guitars are all about people. Time to be aware. You are playing PLASTIC.
Wow such an expensive guitar with a plastic bag for finish
Yea. It always disappointing.
Looks better natural. I’m not even a flame top guy.
The more I see of Gibson the more I appreciate my Epiphone '59😂
15:25 nice Gibson studio faded)))
Looks like a factory second from Gibson, wow. Seeing the ring hit the top of the guitar a few times made me nervous.
Holy cow, I feel better about my lowly USA Les Paul Standard, which has the same finish, but for 3 times less money.
👍
@@zorglubmagnus455 😁 it's regular Gibson nitro like on all others models.
Hi! I want to start by saying that I love your videos. But personally, I don’t see anything wrong with Factory finish. I focus more on sound and playability that any other things. Could you please explain why is the finish “wrong”? I’m not an expert, an artist or a painter, so I don’t really understand much about it. Thanks!
Thank you. I answered these questions in several of my past videos. About 59 Les Paul, Relic and many others.
@@8BombCustom I'll take a detained look at them. Thanks!
I didn't know you could heat Nitro off with a gun like that? That technique is typically used with Polyester finishes.
Chibson?
It is Gibson Customshop 59 reisue 2019
It looks like Gibson uses as many cost saving methods as posible, even on their most expensive guitars. Maybe they started with poly sand, and seal, then sprayed nitro. Ae we know, nitro soaks into the wood. If they didn't allow for adiquate dry time, the colors would me more likely to bleed.
Залипательно!
Спасибо
Take that Mark Agnesi!!
😁👍
Funny, isn’t that “thin real nitro” a big selling point for the custom Gibsons? That fruit by the foot doesn’t seem more resonant and musical.
It is nitro but it is not hard and not thin. About 0.30mm. I make nitro layer 0.13 mm.
Like 625 ✔💫🎬 📽👍Super Vintage
.
Thank you
I cannot believe my eyes!
So does my basic 2021 Les Paul Standard have the same crappy thick ass finish on it? Here I thought I was buying a nice thinly nitro finished guitar. The way you peeled that off the back almost made me vomit 😢
Thank you. All Standards have a same finish.
Добрый день чудесная работа ,смотрю у вас так все просто,лак снимается . Решил перекрасить свой лес пол ,купил ацетон сделал все как у вас на видео ,а лаку ходь бы что .Отколол кусочек лака положил в крышку с ацетоном , а он не растворяется ( гитара корейская реплика Gib.... .Вы профессионал в этом деле не одну гитару сделали ПОДСКАЖИТЕ чем удалить лак ( походу лак не нитро) феном боюсь ,шкурить тоже не вариант может быть какие растворители ? Спасибо что уделили время
Здравствуйте. Спасибо. К сожалению почти 100% азиатских гитар покрашены полиэфирным лаком. Верхний красочный слой еще можно снять с горем пополам строительным феном, но под ним всегда есть такой же толстый слой праймера (грунта). Его только механически. Шлифмашинка, шкурка, цикля +время, силы, нервы и терпение. Я такие гитары в работу вобще не беру. Только для одного друга иногда 😁
@@8BombCustom спасибо большое, выручили. Удачи вам, буду ждать новые видео
7:10 SATISFYING.
Thank you, this is a eye opener… Did you ever had a murphy Lab? If they would have the same laquer I wouldn’t know how to get a authentic Gibson R9… greetings from Germany
I held the Murphy Lab in Hamburg in February. The lacquer looked similar to me.
@@8BombCustom oh thank you for your quick answer!! How much does a refinish by you cost for a Regular R9? Sorry if I missed that on your channel or your website. Thank you! 😁
@@Hallalo unfortunately now I can't take orders for repainting from abroad
@@8BombCustom I hope someday that would be possible! Great channel & looking forward for new videos! Greetings and keep safe my friend ✌🏼